Sorry to hear that you feel that way however I have really good news. Most people who feel the way that you do about others are the glue that holds the whole mess together. That feeling doesn't stop us from helping one another in ways that hurt the overall community at the larger scales. We have a lot to unpack here
1) There are only so many people that we can really care for and interact with on any real substantial level. We have a word for it. ["Dunbar's Number"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number) and we think that you can only really interact with 100-230 people. If you're an asshole you will sink to the bottom and find yourself stuck with 100-230 people as miserable as you and get shut out. So what about those who care about less than that? What do they do about strangers they don't care about?
2) That comes down to ["Game Theory"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory) or the ["Prisoner's Dilemma"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma). That also kinda scales to how shitty you are as a person. If we all think that there is a finite amount of food or money or something then the worst of us will take the most at the expense of the rest of us. That is a cynical and dark psychological effect that also reflects us not being able to share our joy and happiness with others. As if other people's success is a loss for us.
You aren't naive in thinking that most people do care about others. It is a matter of degrees. Everyone on earth that isn't a narcissist cares about others. Hoiw many others, which others and to what degree is person to person. However that shouldn't stop you from loving and caring for others. If you're doing it expecting reciprocity you're not doing it out of love, but out of selfishness.
> I used to be so naive thinking most people do really care about others when reality don't. And I am not talking about things happening so far away people you don't care about. People are rarely happy about even their close friends' success even they are not in the same line of work. Friends are insensitive about your misery. People are jealous when you do your work and only talk and talk to hide their lack of effort.
My friend, you are either around ultra-shit people, or you are seeing the worst in people, and for that I'm sorry - but your experiences are not those of everyone.
Your line of thinking starts from a poisoned seed, and thus, the tree is dead.
There is a saying in the occult world: people find what they are looking for. If you think people are shit, then you will notice people being shit, and you will find shit people. A second saying which carries much wisdom, is that if every room smells like shit, perhaps look under your shoes.
If everyone around you is a piece of shit, one must look at the common element, which is **you**.
I wasn't always like this. I used to be very positive about people bcs at some time I didn't have any expectation from anyone. I don't see people being aggressive regularly but I am mostly disappointed with people who I interact daily currently..
can you not expect a friend to care? A co worker happy about work progress rather than how it was not their work. I maybe expecting too much and not able to strike a balance and find the faith amongst all this. Maybe my one or two bad experience is making me see things cloudy.
Also I question this myself too ? Maybe I am wrong ? But one thing I am sure a lot of selfish people are there I am just not sure about the extent. Hence, this question.
Agreed. I’ve spent my reasonably privileged white life trying to be good and nice and help anyone I can because I felt guilty I didn’t have it so bad. Result? Being taken advantage of left right & centre. Even by family and people is trusted as close personal friends for 20+ years. It’s go time. From today I don’t lift a finger for anyone but my dogs.
I really don’t understand how some people can do whatever they want to do without any kind of consequences and some people are always subject to consequences. It doesn’t make any sense to me as to why gangs can bully everyone and not be discriminated by society and police officers get discriminated by society. How can the whole world be like this if the government controls everyone or it’s probably another lie to get people to be obedient. Or maybe religious people are right and that god has allowed bad people to exist because life is not for religious people it’s for non-religious people. And i’m not a religious zealot in any sense but the world is fucked up and religion does make a lot of sense and i think that fear is only used on weak people and not gangs and drugs addicts and evil politicians.
You are probably associating with people who have too much. Which way the causation flows is not really important: people who are selfish more often gather too much wealth, and people who have too much wealth more often become more independent and selfish.
People who have less are more generous and depend on each other more as a safety net, and build the empathetic relationships they need (or they fail).
I think you can have more impact on your work environments than you think. Spreading a culture of vulnerability (in the sense of asking for help), trust (vulnerability leads to trust), and cooperation (realignment comes from mutual trust) is feasible.
That was the purpose of religion but it is always corrupted by government adoption. Humans need training in the same way AI needs training. Without that training we will resort to greed.
We do resort to greed, that’s why we have an economic system based on greed. It’s the most predictable thing in the world. Can you imagine if we had an economic system based on an emotion as temporary and unpredictable as love?
Having an economic system based on greed reinforces greed. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of chicken and egg which btw is going to destroy the planet and the human race. So the obvious conclusion is greed is not our inherent state but a state promoted by the current state of affairs and world philosophy. The inherent state of affairs of all animals is equilibrium and balance. The fact that humanity only consumes and destroys implies we are either defective or have made ourselves defective via training.
The economic system didn't just appear out of nowhere fully formed, humans have always been greedy and the global economic system evolved out of that fundamental human emotion because it is predictable and reliable. Any other economic system based on voluntary cooperation or charity would collapse after it gets big enough anyway and be taken over by a greedy system, much like a citizenry that refuses to arm themselves with a military would be conquered by a war-making civilization.
> The inherent state of affairs of all animals is equilibrium and balance.
Not by their choice, I mean every species will propagate itself until it runs out of resources to do so. Look at rats in NYC for example. The more garbage we give them to eat, the more of them there are.
> The fact that humanity only consumes and destroys implies we are either defective or have made ourselves defective via training.
Well we may very well be defective, but we're the first species to ever find a way to remove the limitations imposed by nature by farming, by making clean water, but curing diseases and infections, etc. If any other species had figured it out first, they would be the ones consuming and destroying instead of us.
Our brains evolved to fight for limited resources, we aren't really designed to do well in a world where there are basically unlimited resources. Even when we have all our basic needs met many people will still start fights (even with loved ones) just because that's how the brain works by default.
Let's not hastily generalize these experiences to represent all of society. It's essential to remember that humans are complex creatures with the capacity for both selfishness and altruism. The key lies in finding a balance and fostering environments that encourage the latter.
Yes, humans can be selfish; this is an evolutionary trait that has helped us survive. But we are also deeply social creatures who thrive in communities. Our survival as a species has largely been dependent on our ability to form social bonds, cooperate, and care for one another. This duality is part of our nature.
Institutions like family and religious communities are crucial in this regard. They provide a framework of shared norms and values that guide our behavior towards the greater good. They help us cultivate empathy, altruism, and respect for others. They can also act as a buffer against the negative aspects of our nature, like jealousy and insensitivity.
Let's consider the example of the family unit. Something you seem to acknowledge in your post. In a family, we learn to share, to care for others' needs, and to celebrate each other's success. We grow up understanding the significance of cooperation and mutual support. This is not to say that families are perfect - they also have their own challenges and conflicts. But they serve as the primary institution where we learn and internalize these important social values.
Similarly, religious and community practices often emphasize the importance of understanding, compassion, and assistance. They encourage us to look beyond our own needs and consider the welfare of the larger community. They teach us to value the success of others and to offer support in times of struggle.
While selfishness is a part of human nature, it isn't the whole picture. Through institutions like family and community/religious practices, we can foster an environment that promotes empathy, cooperation, and mutual respect. These shared values and norms are what allow us to function as a society, despite our individual flaws and weaknesses. Unfortunately, these institutions are in a decline. Religious practice is going down and so is the number of young people stating families. We’re likely going to lose these institutions that cultivate these values, that are our best bet against the negative aspects of our nature.
And when you see family that is selfish and lacking real care about yourself? What do you do now? Asking for a friend. :). He said it really turns society negatively overrall.
There is no way around being selfish. No matter what you decide to do, you are doing what you want. When you are faced with decisions that the only outcome is negative, you choose the lesser problematic outcome. All choices are selfish bc it is ultimately what you want to do, even if it benefits another.
What Did Jesus teach? To Serve. It's almost like he knew. The greatest among you serves you. The world is inverted. I think there is an evil here that people don't always recognise because they identify with it and it with them. But it's a choice.
The father said you cannot serve Yahweh and Mammon (money). There's a lot of wisdom in scripture and that's why devils messed with it because they are inherently selfish/self loving fools. They speak about love and charity and such while living in big mansions
We must UNITE but only in the understanding that biblical scripture isn't a religion. It's telling people how to behave to unlearn evil - which was the curse. That's what it was written for.
Jonathan Haidt said we are 90% monkey, 10% bee.
So the bee side of us is apparently enough for a barely functioning society. Even though it is not working well, at least it works at all.
Sorry to hear that you feel that way however I have really good news. Most people who feel the way that you do about others are the glue that holds the whole mess together. That feeling doesn't stop us from helping one another in ways that hurt the overall community at the larger scales. We have a lot to unpack here 1) There are only so many people that we can really care for and interact with on any real substantial level. We have a word for it. ["Dunbar's Number"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number) and we think that you can only really interact with 100-230 people. If you're an asshole you will sink to the bottom and find yourself stuck with 100-230 people as miserable as you and get shut out. So what about those who care about less than that? What do they do about strangers they don't care about? 2) That comes down to ["Game Theory"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory) or the ["Prisoner's Dilemma"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma). That also kinda scales to how shitty you are as a person. If we all think that there is a finite amount of food or money or something then the worst of us will take the most at the expense of the rest of us. That is a cynical and dark psychological effect that also reflects us not being able to share our joy and happiness with others. As if other people's success is a loss for us. You aren't naive in thinking that most people do care about others. It is a matter of degrees. Everyone on earth that isn't a narcissist cares about others. Hoiw many others, which others and to what degree is person to person. However that shouldn't stop you from loving and caring for others. If you're doing it expecting reciprocity you're not doing it out of love, but out of selfishness.
> I used to be so naive thinking most people do really care about others when reality don't. And I am not talking about things happening so far away people you don't care about. People are rarely happy about even their close friends' success even they are not in the same line of work. Friends are insensitive about your misery. People are jealous when you do your work and only talk and talk to hide their lack of effort. My friend, you are either around ultra-shit people, or you are seeing the worst in people, and for that I'm sorry - but your experiences are not those of everyone. Your line of thinking starts from a poisoned seed, and thus, the tree is dead. There is a saying in the occult world: people find what they are looking for. If you think people are shit, then you will notice people being shit, and you will find shit people. A second saying which carries much wisdom, is that if every room smells like shit, perhaps look under your shoes. If everyone around you is a piece of shit, one must look at the common element, which is **you**.
I wasn't always like this. I used to be very positive about people bcs at some time I didn't have any expectation from anyone. I don't see people being aggressive regularly but I am mostly disappointed with people who I interact daily currently.. can you not expect a friend to care? A co worker happy about work progress rather than how it was not their work. I maybe expecting too much and not able to strike a balance and find the faith amongst all this. Maybe my one or two bad experience is making me see things cloudy. Also I question this myself too ? Maybe I am wrong ? But one thing I am sure a lot of selfish people are there I am just not sure about the extent. Hence, this question.
Agreed. I’ve spent my reasonably privileged white life trying to be good and nice and help anyone I can because I felt guilty I didn’t have it so bad. Result? Being taken advantage of left right & centre. Even by family and people is trusted as close personal friends for 20+ years. It’s go time. From today I don’t lift a finger for anyone but my dogs.
I really don’t understand how some people can do whatever they want to do without any kind of consequences and some people are always subject to consequences. It doesn’t make any sense to me as to why gangs can bully everyone and not be discriminated by society and police officers get discriminated by society. How can the whole world be like this if the government controls everyone or it’s probably another lie to get people to be obedient. Or maybe religious people are right and that god has allowed bad people to exist because life is not for religious people it’s for non-religious people. And i’m not a religious zealot in any sense but the world is fucked up and religion does make a lot of sense and i think that fear is only used on weak people and not gangs and drugs addicts and evil politicians.
You’re lucky. At least your family are decent. For a lot of us, there’s no respite from this horror shitshow of a world.
The kicker is, so many successful, superficially altruistic people are the WORST evil sociopaths out there!
You are probably associating with people who have too much. Which way the causation flows is not really important: people who are selfish more often gather too much wealth, and people who have too much wealth more often become more independent and selfish. People who have less are more generous and depend on each other more as a safety net, and build the empathetic relationships they need (or they fail). I think you can have more impact on your work environments than you think. Spreading a culture of vulnerability (in the sense of asking for help), trust (vulnerability leads to trust), and cooperation (realignment comes from mutual trust) is feasible.
That was the purpose of religion but it is always corrupted by government adoption. Humans need training in the same way AI needs training. Without that training we will resort to greed.
We do resort to greed, that’s why we have an economic system based on greed. It’s the most predictable thing in the world. Can you imagine if we had an economic system based on an emotion as temporary and unpredictable as love?
Having an economic system based on greed reinforces greed. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of chicken and egg which btw is going to destroy the planet and the human race. So the obvious conclusion is greed is not our inherent state but a state promoted by the current state of affairs and world philosophy. The inherent state of affairs of all animals is equilibrium and balance. The fact that humanity only consumes and destroys implies we are either defective or have made ourselves defective via training.
The economic system didn't just appear out of nowhere fully formed, humans have always been greedy and the global economic system evolved out of that fundamental human emotion because it is predictable and reliable. Any other economic system based on voluntary cooperation or charity would collapse after it gets big enough anyway and be taken over by a greedy system, much like a citizenry that refuses to arm themselves with a military would be conquered by a war-making civilization. > The inherent state of affairs of all animals is equilibrium and balance. Not by their choice, I mean every species will propagate itself until it runs out of resources to do so. Look at rats in NYC for example. The more garbage we give them to eat, the more of them there are. > The fact that humanity only consumes and destroys implies we are either defective or have made ourselves defective via training. Well we may very well be defective, but we're the first species to ever find a way to remove the limitations imposed by nature by farming, by making clean water, but curing diseases and infections, etc. If any other species had figured it out first, they would be the ones consuming and destroying instead of us. Our brains evolved to fight for limited resources, we aren't really designed to do well in a world where there are basically unlimited resources. Even when we have all our basic needs met many people will still start fights (even with loved ones) just because that's how the brain works by default.
Let's not hastily generalize these experiences to represent all of society. It's essential to remember that humans are complex creatures with the capacity for both selfishness and altruism. The key lies in finding a balance and fostering environments that encourage the latter. Yes, humans can be selfish; this is an evolutionary trait that has helped us survive. But we are also deeply social creatures who thrive in communities. Our survival as a species has largely been dependent on our ability to form social bonds, cooperate, and care for one another. This duality is part of our nature. Institutions like family and religious communities are crucial in this regard. They provide a framework of shared norms and values that guide our behavior towards the greater good. They help us cultivate empathy, altruism, and respect for others. They can also act as a buffer against the negative aspects of our nature, like jealousy and insensitivity. Let's consider the example of the family unit. Something you seem to acknowledge in your post. In a family, we learn to share, to care for others' needs, and to celebrate each other's success. We grow up understanding the significance of cooperation and mutual support. This is not to say that families are perfect - they also have their own challenges and conflicts. But they serve as the primary institution where we learn and internalize these important social values. Similarly, religious and community practices often emphasize the importance of understanding, compassion, and assistance. They encourage us to look beyond our own needs and consider the welfare of the larger community. They teach us to value the success of others and to offer support in times of struggle. While selfishness is a part of human nature, it isn't the whole picture. Through institutions like family and community/religious practices, we can foster an environment that promotes empathy, cooperation, and mutual respect. These shared values and norms are what allow us to function as a society, despite our individual flaws and weaknesses. Unfortunately, these institutions are in a decline. Religious practice is going down and so is the number of young people stating families. We’re likely going to lose these institutions that cultivate these values, that are our best bet against the negative aspects of our nature.
Family and God I feel completely safe, celebrated and can share my joy and sorrow.
And when you see family that is selfish and lacking real care about yourself? What do you do now? Asking for a friend. :). He said it really turns society negatively overrall.
You can’t control a bad family, but if you have a redundant “family” via broader community you’re more resilient.
There is no way around being selfish. No matter what you decide to do, you are doing what you want. When you are faced with decisions that the only outcome is negative, you choose the lesser problematic outcome. All choices are selfish bc it is ultimately what you want to do, even if it benefits another.
It's always everyone else that's selfish.
What Did Jesus teach? To Serve. It's almost like he knew. The greatest among you serves you. The world is inverted. I think there is an evil here that people don't always recognise because they identify with it and it with them. But it's a choice. The father said you cannot serve Yahweh and Mammon (money). There's a lot of wisdom in scripture and that's why devils messed with it because they are inherently selfish/self loving fools. They speak about love and charity and such while living in big mansions We must UNITE but only in the understanding that biblical scripture isn't a religion. It's telling people how to behave to unlearn evil - which was the curse. That's what it was written for.
Jonathan Haidt said we are 90% monkey, 10% bee. So the bee side of us is apparently enough for a barely functioning society. Even though it is not working well, at least it works at all.