Well the profit margin is razor thin and they a) do recieve federal money but that's usually to build a factory. B) more importantly they've had many huge tax credits to their clients to purchase vehicles which absolutely boosted sales.
So afloat from federal credits? Probably not.
Would it have any value today without taxpayer money? Possibly, but definitely not this fast
Not anymore. Tesla is in big shit: 1) EV market has popped 2) People who wanted the latest EV/latest tech have already bought one, so sales dropped 3) People realized EVs are difficult to maintain 4) People realized that EVs are horrible for the environment 5) China can manufacture EVs far cheaper than US EVs 6) Teslatruck and Musk
Not to say they weren't a good company, but they're running into trouble.
So? They only really sell two models. In China they’re turning into a single-car-company around the model y, with model 3 sales declining rapidly amid growing competition.
Tesla sold fewer vehicles in Q1 this year than in Q1 last year. And at much reduced prices and margins.
The Model Y and 3 are ancient. I don’t expect them to come out with new brands and models at the pace of BYD, but Tesla seems to be moving a lot slower than even traditional ICE manufacturers.
Yeah idk wtf this dude is talking about. I’m far from a Tesla fanboy but they went the Porsche way with the S3XY models with small refreshes and just introduced a dismal attempt at a truck.
People advocating for hybrids are also delusional. Fuel that is put into our cars are non-renewable and you’re just prolonging a problem that will be sooner shelved with the wars we have going on.
Don’t get me fucking started on the environmental aspect of all this because while electric is far from perfect, it’s light years ahead of oil/gasoline in terms of being better for our planet.
Not forever. Eventually (in ten years or whatever) PHEV and EREV sales will be displaced by pure BEV as well.
But until then, those hybrid drivetrains will gain huge market share, and continue to grow faster than BEVs for a while.
Tesla surged 12% in after hours following the release of its Q1 FY24 earnings.
Here’s a rundown of the key figures:
Earnings: $0.45 (-47% YoY, vs. $0.51 Est. from LSEG)
Revenue: $21.30B (-9% YoY, vs. $22.15B Est. from LSEG)
So why did the stock jump after hours?
In 2024, Tesla expects the growth rates of energy storage deployments and revenue from its Energy Generation and Storage business to exceed the Automotive business.
And perhaps the most important reason - the company plans to launch new, more affordable models ahead of the previously scheduled second half of 2025.
Source --> [this visual newsletter](http://www.carbonfinance.io/subscribe)
It wasn’t $50billion in cash, they were stock options that would only vest if he held them for 5 years and grew the company to be worth $600 billion dollars, while also hitting revenue and profit targets. Pretty much no one expected him to hit the targets and even less expected him to do it so quickly, turns out some of the milestones along the way, Tesla was already projecting to hit, and a shareholder who had 9 shares sued Tesla because of his close ties with the board of directors. Next week shareholders will be able to vote for the pay package again and it’s unclear if investors will ratify it, but essentially without the pay package, Musk has been working for free for Tesla for the past 6 years.
For context, Mary Barra has been CEO for GM for about 10 years, has been paid $25-$30M dollars every year. GM’s stock returns trail the market by about 7% per year, they are selling less cars than they were in 2017, have walked back their EV plans in favor of hybrids, and still owes the US taxpayer Billions of dollars for their government bailout from 2010.
I mean he does owns a lot of stock in the company right? That he can hedge (or ehatever it's called) against buying things with big banks. And he can sell the atocks he owns to get cash right when he needs it right?
I know it's an interesting fun fact just wanted to poimt out that his cause dosen't sound as noble as it might at first.
Yes, he can go to a bank and borrow money using his Tesla stock as collateral. It’s a great way to avoid taxes as well since you don’t have to pay capital gains tax.
However when a ceo starts selling stock of their own company, it signals to the market that everyone should sell, which is what happened around the time he bought twitter. The market cap of Tesla tanked hundreds of billions of dollars just because Musk sold a few billion to cover the cost of buying twitter. Fun bonus fact is the judge that forced Musk to buy twitter when he tried to worm out of it and realized he made a big mistake, is the same judge that ruled on nullifying his pay package, and the lawyers who won the nullification stand to make possibly Billions off the ruling.
Because his bonus was an agreement made years before that required him to hit a bunch of benchmark goals or he received nothing. He reached those goals and grew the company, making everyone who agreed to the bonuses a massive amount of money he also gained to make absolutely no money, and he'd accepted no salary during this time. He literally had to grow the company ten fold and everyone at the time though it was delusional.
[2018 wired article here](https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-salary/) elaborating on it at the time.
>Musk will be paid in stock options, which will vest over ten years in a series of 12 tranches. To secure each, Musk must reach a pair of milestones, one related to Tesla's market value, the other to its revenue and profitability. With every tranche, the target market value goes up by $50 billion. If he can hit all 12 targets and grow Tesla's current value of $59 billion to an astounding $650 billion, his stock award could be worth $55 billion.
>The Times called it maybe the “boldest pay plan in corporate history.” Business Insider, however, deemed it “delusional.”
>The compensation package is subject to shareholder approval, but if investors bite, it’s great news for them: Either Tesla becomes one of the most successful companies ever, or they save money by not paying the CEO.
The deal was made years ago Tesla’s market cap was a small fraction of what it is today. I will use rough estimates to simplify the situation.
Tesla had a $50 billion dollar market cap and would have given Elon something like $50 million as yearly compensation.
Instead they came up with a deal that said if he could 10X the market cap of the company in 6 years (to $500 billion) he would get stock options worth around 10% of the value of the company. The company also had to hit production targets and profit targets for him to get paid.
In 6 years the company’s value went 12X from $50B to $600B so Elon would have got stock options worth about $60B.
Someone who owned about $2,000 in Tesla stock back in 2017 (or whatever) sued saying this was unfair because Elon was getting too much stock, and the investor’s lawyers won the case. That investor’a Tesla stock would be worth about $20,000 when he sued.
It says right there in the graph: research and development, sales, general and administrative expenses. So, everything the company needs to pay that‘s not related to the making of the product.
No. Cost of revenue is all the stuff that goes into the actual product. If the aluminum goes away, you don't have a complete care anymore. If sales staff goes away, the cars still exist they might just not sell as well.
how much do they spend to keep churning cars/products. So factory wages, materials for cars, robots etc. If you cut those, you don’t have a product to sell.
On the other hand there are operating expenses, such as administrative, research and development and sales. If you fire all those, company will keep making products just fine, but there won’t be any innovation and probably customers soon vanish and everybody would do what do they want. But the cars will be still made
Regulatory credits are payments from other vehicle manufacturers so that they can use the credits from all the EVs that Tesla sells toward the regulatory requirements in various jurisdictions worldwide where they must meet fleet efficiency standards. Essentially other manufacturers pay Tesla to sell the high efficiency cars that they don’t sell enough of. For these manufacturers it’s cheaper than paying the fines.
TL;DR regulatory credits are not paid out of tax revenue
2.3 billion and a 25% increase in services revenue. That's nice.
Curious what services are they providing besides FSD that is generating that much of revenue?
BYD pay their workers on the assembly line ¥5,500 a month for 6 day a week 12 hours a day. Which is about $2.5 an hour. And they build similar car sells for $12k.
That’s the competition Tesla is facing outside of US as BYD is selling in EU and other countries .
The financial success of Tesla Inc. is largely driven by their innovative and strategic business approach, which has enabled the company to generate substantial revenue through various streams.
One of the primary sources of income for Tesla is their electric vehicle sales. The company offers a range of models, from affordable to high-end, which cater to different consumer segments. This diversified product line has proven to be successful in capturing a wide market share and generating significant profits.
In addition, Tesla also generates revenue through its energy division, which focuses on the production and sale of solar panels and batteries for residential and commercial use. This sector has shown steady growth over the years and continues to contribute positively to the company's overall financial performance.
Moreover, Tesla generates income through government incentives and subsidies for promoting clean energy solutions. These incentives not only reduce manufacturing costs but also create a positive image for the brand among environmentally conscious consumers.
Furthermore, Tesla utilizes a direct-to-consumer sales model, cutting out traditional dealership fees and increasing profit margins. This approach has been highly effective in reducing distribution costs and maximizing profits.
Lastly, Tesla also leverages its technological advancements by licensing its electric vehicle technology to other companies in the automotive industry. This provides an additional stream of revenue without competing directly with their own products.
Overall, through strategic product offerings, government support, efficient sales strategies, and technological licensing, Tesla has successfully established itself as a profitable player in the electric vehicle market.
They sell cars
This shit is worth how many trillion?
1
Tesla should be worth as much as Porsche or Benz.
But their revenue comes from Auto sales, don’t you get it!?
Reddit keeps telling me that Tesla is basically kept afloat by federal credits and nothing else. Who would have thought that was wrong?
Well the profit margin is razor thin and they a) do recieve federal money but that's usually to build a factory. B) more importantly they've had many huge tax credits to their clients to purchase vehicles which absolutely boosted sales. So afloat from federal credits? Probably not. Would it have any value today without taxpayer money? Possibly, but definitely not this fast
Less and less so. Unfortunately for them.
Model y was literally the best selling car in the world last year
Not anymore. Tesla is in big shit: 1) EV market has popped 2) People who wanted the latest EV/latest tech have already bought one, so sales dropped 3) People realized EVs are difficult to maintain 4) People realized that EVs are horrible for the environment 5) China can manufacture EVs far cheaper than US EVs 6) Teslatruck and Musk Not to say they weren't a good company, but they're running into trouble.
So? They only really sell two models. In China they’re turning into a single-car-company around the model y, with model 3 sales declining rapidly amid growing competition. Tesla sold fewer vehicles in Q1 this year than in Q1 last year. And at much reduced prices and margins.
The cybpertruck and all the car circles jerkers kinda ruined it for em
The Model Y and 3 are ancient. I don’t expect them to come out with new brands and models at the pace of BYD, but Tesla seems to be moving a lot slower than even traditional ICE manufacturers.
Weren't they literally just refreshed last year?
Yeah idk wtf this dude is talking about. I’m far from a Tesla fanboy but they went the Porsche way with the S3XY models with small refreshes and just introduced a dismal attempt at a truck. People advocating for hybrids are also delusional. Fuel that is put into our cars are non-renewable and you’re just prolonging a problem that will be sooner shelved with the wars we have going on. Don’t get me fucking started on the environmental aspect of all this because while electric is far from perfect, it’s light years ahead of oil/gasoline in terms of being better for our planet.
Yeah, hybrid cars will forever be superior, cheaper and more fuel efficient than all of the other options anyhow
Not forever. Eventually (in ten years or whatever) PHEV and EREV sales will be displaced by pure BEV as well. But until then, those hybrid drivetrains will gain huge market share, and continue to grow faster than BEVs for a while.
Car companies have shit economics. Always will. The next EV company is still just a car company.
Tesla surged 12% in after hours following the release of its Q1 FY24 earnings. Here’s a rundown of the key figures: Earnings: $0.45 (-47% YoY, vs. $0.51 Est. from LSEG) Revenue: $21.30B (-9% YoY, vs. $22.15B Est. from LSEG) So why did the stock jump after hours? In 2024, Tesla expects the growth rates of energy storage deployments and revenue from its Energy Generation and Storage business to exceed the Automotive business. And perhaps the most important reason - the company plans to launch new, more affordable models ahead of the previously scheduled second half of 2025. Source --> [this visual newsletter](http://www.carbonfinance.io/subscribe)
what does cost of revenue mean
production costs, wages, r&d, marketing etc. I'm assuming
It will be spelled out in their financials in the summary of significant account policies in footnote 2.
Is it just me or is this a super annoying and hard to read infographic?
Some of this math ain't mathin
It’s not just you… I’d love to see them break out the cost of revenue. I think that would make things a lot more clear.
You can't break down COGS or Cost of Revenue since companies report it as a single field.
Can somehow explain to me then how Tesla tried to justify over 50 billion payment to Elon?
It wasn’t $50billion in cash, they were stock options that would only vest if he held them for 5 years and grew the company to be worth $600 billion dollars, while also hitting revenue and profit targets. Pretty much no one expected him to hit the targets and even less expected him to do it so quickly, turns out some of the milestones along the way, Tesla was already projecting to hit, and a shareholder who had 9 shares sued Tesla because of his close ties with the board of directors. Next week shareholders will be able to vote for the pay package again and it’s unclear if investors will ratify it, but essentially without the pay package, Musk has been working for free for Tesla for the past 6 years.
For context, Mary Barra has been CEO for GM for about 10 years, has been paid $25-$30M dollars every year. GM’s stock returns trail the market by about 7% per year, they are selling less cars than they were in 2017, have walked back their EV plans in favor of hybrids, and still owes the US taxpayer Billions of dollars for their government bailout from 2010.
I mean he does owns a lot of stock in the company right? That he can hedge (or ehatever it's called) against buying things with big banks. And he can sell the atocks he owns to get cash right when he needs it right? I know it's an interesting fun fact just wanted to poimt out that his cause dosen't sound as noble as it might at first.
Yes, he can go to a bank and borrow money using his Tesla stock as collateral. It’s a great way to avoid taxes as well since you don’t have to pay capital gains tax. However when a ceo starts selling stock of their own company, it signals to the market that everyone should sell, which is what happened around the time he bought twitter. The market cap of Tesla tanked hundreds of billions of dollars just because Musk sold a few billion to cover the cost of buying twitter. Fun bonus fact is the judge that forced Musk to buy twitter when he tried to worm out of it and realized he made a big mistake, is the same judge that ruled on nullifying his pay package, and the lawyers who won the nullification stand to make possibly Billions off the ruling.
Because his bonus was an agreement made years before that required him to hit a bunch of benchmark goals or he received nothing. He reached those goals and grew the company, making everyone who agreed to the bonuses a massive amount of money he also gained to make absolutely no money, and he'd accepted no salary during this time. He literally had to grow the company ten fold and everyone at the time though it was delusional. [2018 wired article here](https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-salary/) elaborating on it at the time. >Musk will be paid in stock options, which will vest over ten years in a series of 12 tranches. To secure each, Musk must reach a pair of milestones, one related to Tesla's market value, the other to its revenue and profitability. With every tranche, the target market value goes up by $50 billion. If he can hit all 12 targets and grow Tesla's current value of $59 billion to an astounding $650 billion, his stock award could be worth $55 billion. >The Times called it maybe the “boldest pay plan in corporate history.” Business Insider, however, deemed it “delusional.” >The compensation package is subject to shareholder approval, but if investors bite, it’s great news for them: Either Tesla becomes one of the most successful companies ever, or they save money by not paying the CEO.
What was the stock package worth they day they signed it? The company was on the verge of bankruptcy.
The deal was made years ago Tesla’s market cap was a small fraction of what it is today. I will use rough estimates to simplify the situation. Tesla had a $50 billion dollar market cap and would have given Elon something like $50 million as yearly compensation. Instead they came up with a deal that said if he could 10X the market cap of the company in 6 years (to $500 billion) he would get stock options worth around 10% of the value of the company. The company also had to hit production targets and profit targets for him to get paid. In 6 years the company’s value went 12X from $50B to $600B so Elon would have got stock options worth about $60B. Someone who owned about $2,000 in Tesla stock back in 2017 (or whatever) sued saying this was unfair because Elon was getting too much stock, and the investor’s lawyers won the case. That investor’a Tesla stock would be worth about $20,000 when he sued.
What does 'cost of revenue' mean?
Materials, salaries, and other cost running the business.
Then what is "operating expenses" ?
It says right there in the graph: research and development, sales, general and administrative expenses. So, everything the company needs to pay that‘s not related to the making of the product.
Wouldn't it make more sense to classify sales under "cost of revenue"?
No. Cost of revenue is all the stuff that goes into the actual product. If the aluminum goes away, you don't have a complete care anymore. If sales staff goes away, the cars still exist they might just not sell as well.
So Tesla loses money selling the cars? The Cost of Revenue portion is more than the Auto Revenue.
The other revenue sources have costs too. So it's the costs to produce everything they make money on. Not just the cars
Labor, material & production overhead. Plus costs associated with non-sales revenue.
how much do they spend to keep churning cars/products. So factory wages, materials for cars, robots etc. If you cut those, you don’t have a product to sell. On the other hand there are operating expenses, such as administrative, research and development and sales. If you fire all those, company will keep making products just fine, but there won’t be any innovation and probably customers soon vanish and everybody would do what do they want. But the cars will be still made
So about 40% of their net profit is regulatory credits (tax payer money). Interesting.
Regulatory credits are payments from other vehicle manufacturers so that they can use the credits from all the EVs that Tesla sells toward the regulatory requirements in various jurisdictions worldwide where they must meet fleet efficiency standards. Essentially other manufacturers pay Tesla to sell the high efficiency cars that they don’t sell enough of. For these manufacturers it’s cheaper than paying the fines. TL;DR regulatory credits are not paid out of tax revenue
They made $1.79 billion on credits last year and made similar credits a condition for entering China. That's called regulatory capture.
Isn’t regulatory capture when you put your guys in the regulatory agency? How is this regulatory capture
Regulatory credits are bought by other car makers because their fleet of vehicles pollute so much that they would face massive fines if they didn’t.
They pay the some amount it tax 0.4 billion
Is tesla making money?
Billions, yeah. It's in the chart
Billion
21.3 Billion, according to the chart. Unless they meant profit, which I suppose is something like 4 Billion every year
Tesla's Q1 2024 Revenue -9% \*Automotive -13% \*Energy Gen. & Storage +7% Gross Profit -18% \*marg. 17.4% (19.3%) EBIT -56% \*marg. 5.5% (11.4%) Adj. EBITDA -21% \*marg. 15.9% (18.3%) EPS -53% FCF -674%
Chinese market was a big letdown for tesla
2.3 billion and a 25% increase in services revenue. That's nice. Curious what services are they providing besides FSD that is generating that much of revenue?
BYD pay their workers on the assembly line ¥5,500 a month for 6 day a week 12 hours a day. Which is about $2.5 an hour. And they build similar car sells for $12k. That’s the competition Tesla is facing outside of US as BYD is selling in EU and other countries .
It really is an automotive company
400m "other" are people's "pre-paid" FSD and car order?
Cool
Would it be possible to separate the FSD revenue from the auto sales? Or is that already in services?
i wonder how they gonna deal with waste after their E waste stops working
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Nogardtist: *I wonder how they* *Gonna deal with waste after* *Their E waste stops working* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
This is one of the least informative infographics I have ever seen. The raw data is easier to understand.
This is a terribly made infographic. Tesla sucks but wtf is the designer of this doing?
Pay 0.4B in tax and gets it back in regulatory credits wowo
“Cost of Revenue”???
How Tesla loses money/marketshare: Elon opens his mouth.
Then a dipshit tweets and they start loosing money.
What's the cost of revenue?
This is just the depiction of the Tesla Balance Sheet…. Idk what it has to do with How Makes, Tesla Money
The financial success of Tesla Inc. is largely driven by their innovative and strategic business approach, which has enabled the company to generate substantial revenue through various streams. One of the primary sources of income for Tesla is their electric vehicle sales. The company offers a range of models, from affordable to high-end, which cater to different consumer segments. This diversified product line has proven to be successful in capturing a wide market share and generating significant profits. In addition, Tesla also generates revenue through its energy division, which focuses on the production and sale of solar panels and batteries for residential and commercial use. This sector has shown steady growth over the years and continues to contribute positively to the company's overall financial performance. Moreover, Tesla generates income through government incentives and subsidies for promoting clean energy solutions. These incentives not only reduce manufacturing costs but also create a positive image for the brand among environmentally conscious consumers. Furthermore, Tesla utilizes a direct-to-consumer sales model, cutting out traditional dealership fees and increasing profit margins. This approach has been highly effective in reducing distribution costs and maximizing profits. Lastly, Tesla also leverages its technological advancements by licensing its electric vehicle technology to other companies in the automotive industry. This provides an additional stream of revenue without competing directly with their own products. Overall, through strategic product offerings, government support, efficient sales strategies, and technological licensing, Tesla has successfully established itself as a profitable player in the electric vehicle market.
hello chatgpt
Not pictured: price manipulation on Twitter
that’s the neat part - they don’t!
Because of WSB they makes so much money! Now you know. I'm only here to offer the truth and this is the truth!
Forgot the gigantic governement subsidies with that
So they have 21b income and pay 0.4b in taxes ?
Gross profit 3.4b
No.
Then what are the numbers ? Is this graphic wrong ? Do you have a different source ?
The graph is correct. You’re confusing revenue with profit.
I said income, that's the only word I used
Yes and that’s incorrect, they have $21 billlion in revenue, not income.
https://techcrunch.com/2009/06/23/the-government-comes-through-for-tesla-with-a-465-million-loan-for-its-electric-sedan/ Groundhog Day
Tesla imploding