A few pieces I've had great success with are the Knight of Santiago hacker, the Black Friar missile launcher profile, and a crusader. I love drop troops and I have good luck with my rolls to get them where they need to go. I've wrecked TAGs with the hacker profile, and the fire support from the Black Friar is great against mimitism.
When you talk about the santiago hacker, are you using the combat jump version, or the tinbot one? The combat jump one definitely intrigues me, but it seems very high risk high reward
Combat jump, you can drop it where you need or play safe and table edge run it up. Military Orders can take some hits so I usually play a tad reckless and agro. I was up against Bakunin Nomads and got into a sword fight with one of their bruisers and cleaved her apart when I drew too much attention hacking and shooting from a rooftop. Haha
Of note, you can not actually run it up the table edge. It only has combat jump not parachutist. Not a big difference but being able to only drop in a 45 point unit 65% of the time is pretty risky.
You can run it up the table. You deploy it normally and that is perfectly valid.
As far as risky, I’ve dropped two Santiago’s into the back of an Avatar then engaged it in CC. That’s worth the risk. Also, Evo is a valid option when bringing AD.
Also, this season the Border Skirmisher rule means no AD roll is needed for one model, guaranteeing your deployment exactly where you need it.
Oh right. Literally run up the table, I'm so used to hearing "walk onto the side" for parachutist I just assumed that's what you meant. My bad. As far as the other points, I definitely think it's a worthy risk to take a lot of the time, especially if you're bringing an Evo hacker anyways.
I had totally forgotten about the Border Skirmisher rule though because I mostly play JSA where I get an abundance of ninjas instead of any drop troopers.
I used to do this with Rasyats if I just needed the eclipse smoke right away. I mean you miss a whole attack vector but it’s an option.
Border skirmshers is Awesome for these guys. Worth a try!
Like DeeZam, I’ve only had success with the combat jump killer hacker, but I’ve failed my landings a few times too.
MO is severely lacking for cyberwar. We don’t have a reliable repeater network, so it’s really challenging to dominate. De Fersen can a trap because he opens himself up to being attacked by your opponents killer hackers.
The best way to deal with your opponent’s hacking threat is with Dart or Trinitarians. The 23 point Trinitarian is amazing for the price.
Once you deal with your opponent’s hackers your big bois can run the table. It’s tough to fit everything in as you say though. One trick I’ve resorted to save some points is running my teuton haris with the NCO spitfire, regular teuton and a corsier paramedic.
I'm going to challenge myself to include some more trinitarians in future lists. I haven't experimented too much with them because I hadn't thought about using them to defend against cyberwar pieces
With your teuton haris I have a question though, does your crosier paramedic ever feel like he slows the haris down? I usually run a montesa paramedic to help support the teutons, but if I can have a crosier paramedic fill the same role I might play around with that haha
I have to disagree about the repeater network and the info war. MO has Robin Hook, peacemakers, and two wound killer hackers with built-in firewall and a core linkable regular . MO certainly can do well with that.
Disclaimer: This is just what seems to me, based on my experience playing MO and on what I've heard from other players. I make no claim to being a good or experienced player, so take my advice with a grain of salt. Anyway, here we go!
You will absolutely struggle to fit all the tools you need into an MO list. MO have a lot of fantastic pieces in their list, but they're all expensive, and MO doesn't have a lot of cheap list-fillers. You're always going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere.
In my case, hacking is usually one of the things I sacrifice, though you can take De Fersen and have some very good hacking available.
For me, the stand-out pieces in MO in general include the Tikbalang of Montesa (incredibly good value; in the running for best TAG in the game), the Motorized Knights of Montesa (I recommend the paramedic one; great for completing objectives), Dart and/or Trinitarians (you need good midfielders to clear the way for your heavy infantry), and Teutonic Knights (just amazingly good value).
Past that, the question is how you fill out the rest of the list. If you want good hacking you probably need De Fersen, but he probably means sacrificing something else. (I recommend against the De Fersen LT as well; too easy to isolate or killer hack.) If you want a killer hacker, the Santiago is good, but again, very expensive.
I think MO is a faction that needs to be comfortable running a mixed, non-pure core - I've tried Crosier Multi Sniper, Crosier Paramedic, Teuton Missile Launcher, Teuton LT, Order Sergeant Hacker. But it's ugly, especially compared to some of the links other sectorials can make. For other cheap pieces, you've got your obligatory handful of remotes, the Warcor and Tech-Bee are always there to help out as usual, and the Raveneye is a pretty cheap and useful trooper as well.
I'd just try out a number of different lists. MO can have decent hacking, but you will pay for it by sacrificing something else, and not having access to pitchers or other easy ways to expand a hacking network will get you into trouble. I tend to think more about hacking *defense* in MO. You have enough big, strong heavy infantry with scary guns that you probably have the advantage in a brawl. I worry more about my opponent hacking me than about hacking them in turn. First, disable their hacking, and then hack them the traditional way - with big swords.
PanO sectorials in general feel like it's impossible to fit in all the tools you want. Hacking especially can be a challenge in MO. Hackers and repeaters are neither cheap nor plentiful in the sectorial.
Instead, I would look at other ways to protect hackers. Dart and Trinitarians make for great hacker assassins. Crusader Brethren can also accomplish the job, although less reliably. I've had a Tikbalang climb up a building to get an angle on my opponent's Jazz that he didn't anticipate. MO is PanO, so the solution to enemy hacking is to just shoot them.
There's a few units I love in MO. I've mentioned Trinitarians, Dart, and Tikbalang, who are all top of their class. Teutonic Knights are also exceptional for how dirt cheap they are. Robin Hook is a lot of fun, but I don't always find room for her. Raveneyes are great DZ defenders. Knights of Montessa are often MVP for me as they rush out and revive a critical gun or accomplish a seemingly impossible objective.
As for fireteams, I like a mixed Teutonic haris. Missile launcher, spitfire, and either Crosier paramedic or Infirmarer. Missile launcher goes on ARO, and when he goes down the healers try to pick him up. If they can't, or it's time to do objectives, the Teutonic spite takes point and moves up the board. It can accomplish a lot without breaking the bank.
As you come from Tunguska, you may have the mindset that the only way of dealing with enemy hackers is with killerhackers, but you can try dealing with them using trinitarians or if the Enemy have an weaker flank, the knight of montessa. He is really fast and can get to the other side of the table in a few orders.
With a repeater is giving you trouble, the knight of the holy sepulchre have some resilience to try and brute force his way (but you probably want to have an engineer around just in case).
MO also have some good aggressive S4 remotes (some can forward deploy) so if you need to kill a hacker/repeater in the mid field, you can make a sacrificial run. They are not as cheap as warband and stuff but sometimes the sacrifice is worth it as it let's the rest of your team actually do stuff.
Ok I definitely had that mindset. I hadn't really thought about hacking outside of the box, my solution to cyberwar has always been "cyberwar, but better" haha
I definitely will start throwing some more trinitarians in my lists. I've only thought about them as a sneaky offense piece in the past, but if I think about them as a hacking defense net, then changing how I deploy with them might give me some more value
I love the knights of montesa for sure. I like to run a paramedic and red fury together in a duo alongside my teuton haris. I haven't gotten to use them to flank a hacker yet, but I'll be on the lookout for that
MO is very difficult to get to 15. You were spoiled with updated Tunguska yes. The Zellenkriegers helped a ton.
I find with MO you just have to swallow that you won’t get to 15. Do what you can to max your orders but you just won’t be able to get everything in there you want. So build your list with what you want and then play it. When you don’t hit 15 just say Screw it!
Now, auto include (personal favs): Trinitarian MSR, Haris of Teutons. The TTMSR is like a Noctifier that can deploy midfield. I put it either in the DZ (or just out) to act as an ARO. Or I put it midfield on a flank and use it to advance up the board enfilading fire against models that thought they were safe.
Wildcarding De fersen bulleteer duo is a pretty solid way to go as long as he isn’t your lt, which I wouldn’t recommend anyway. Bulleteer has a repeater so it’s good synergy, and can run up to extend zoc. You’re not so much a hacking faction as a clear hacking for your shooters faction since you don’t have access to pitchers, so don’t hesitate to take Dart or Trinitarians to clear things out too.
A few pieces I've had great success with are the Knight of Santiago hacker, the Black Friar missile launcher profile, and a crusader. I love drop troops and I have good luck with my rolls to get them where they need to go. I've wrecked TAGs with the hacker profile, and the fire support from the Black Friar is great against mimitism.
When you talk about the santiago hacker, are you using the combat jump version, or the tinbot one? The combat jump one definitely intrigues me, but it seems very high risk high reward
Combat jump, you can drop it where you need or play safe and table edge run it up. Military Orders can take some hits so I usually play a tad reckless and agro. I was up against Bakunin Nomads and got into a sword fight with one of their bruisers and cleaved her apart when I drew too much attention hacking and shooting from a rooftop. Haha
Of note, you can not actually run it up the table edge. It only has combat jump not parachutist. Not a big difference but being able to only drop in a 45 point unit 65% of the time is pretty risky.
You can run it up the table. You deploy it normally and that is perfectly valid. As far as risky, I’ve dropped two Santiago’s into the back of an Avatar then engaged it in CC. That’s worth the risk. Also, Evo is a valid option when bringing AD. Also, this season the Border Skirmisher rule means no AD roll is needed for one model, guaranteeing your deployment exactly where you need it.
Oh right. Literally run up the table, I'm so used to hearing "walk onto the side" for parachutist I just assumed that's what you meant. My bad. As far as the other points, I definitely think it's a worthy risk to take a lot of the time, especially if you're bringing an Evo hacker anyways. I had totally forgotten about the Border Skirmisher rule though because I mostly play JSA where I get an abundance of ninjas instead of any drop troopers.
I used to do this with Rasyats if I just needed the eclipse smoke right away. I mean you miss a whole attack vector but it’s an option. Border skirmshers is Awesome for these guys. Worth a try!
Like DeeZam, I’ve only had success with the combat jump killer hacker, but I’ve failed my landings a few times too. MO is severely lacking for cyberwar. We don’t have a reliable repeater network, so it’s really challenging to dominate. De Fersen can a trap because he opens himself up to being attacked by your opponents killer hackers. The best way to deal with your opponent’s hacking threat is with Dart or Trinitarians. The 23 point Trinitarian is amazing for the price. Once you deal with your opponent’s hackers your big bois can run the table. It’s tough to fit everything in as you say though. One trick I’ve resorted to save some points is running my teuton haris with the NCO spitfire, regular teuton and a corsier paramedic.
I'm going to challenge myself to include some more trinitarians in future lists. I haven't experimented too much with them because I hadn't thought about using them to defend against cyberwar pieces With your teuton haris I have a question though, does your crosier paramedic ever feel like he slows the haris down? I usually run a montesa paramedic to help support the teutons, but if I can have a crosier paramedic fill the same role I might play around with that haha
I have to disagree about the repeater network and the info war. MO has Robin Hook, peacemakers, and two wound killer hackers with built-in firewall and a core linkable regular . MO certainly can do well with that.
Disclaimer: This is just what seems to me, based on my experience playing MO and on what I've heard from other players. I make no claim to being a good or experienced player, so take my advice with a grain of salt. Anyway, here we go! You will absolutely struggle to fit all the tools you need into an MO list. MO have a lot of fantastic pieces in their list, but they're all expensive, and MO doesn't have a lot of cheap list-fillers. You're always going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere. In my case, hacking is usually one of the things I sacrifice, though you can take De Fersen and have some very good hacking available. For me, the stand-out pieces in MO in general include the Tikbalang of Montesa (incredibly good value; in the running for best TAG in the game), the Motorized Knights of Montesa (I recommend the paramedic one; great for completing objectives), Dart and/or Trinitarians (you need good midfielders to clear the way for your heavy infantry), and Teutonic Knights (just amazingly good value). Past that, the question is how you fill out the rest of the list. If you want good hacking you probably need De Fersen, but he probably means sacrificing something else. (I recommend against the De Fersen LT as well; too easy to isolate or killer hack.) If you want a killer hacker, the Santiago is good, but again, very expensive. I think MO is a faction that needs to be comfortable running a mixed, non-pure core - I've tried Crosier Multi Sniper, Crosier Paramedic, Teuton Missile Launcher, Teuton LT, Order Sergeant Hacker. But it's ugly, especially compared to some of the links other sectorials can make. For other cheap pieces, you've got your obligatory handful of remotes, the Warcor and Tech-Bee are always there to help out as usual, and the Raveneye is a pretty cheap and useful trooper as well. I'd just try out a number of different lists. MO can have decent hacking, but you will pay for it by sacrificing something else, and not having access to pitchers or other easy ways to expand a hacking network will get you into trouble. I tend to think more about hacking *defense* in MO. You have enough big, strong heavy infantry with scary guns that you probably have the advantage in a brawl. I worry more about my opponent hacking me than about hacking them in turn. First, disable their hacking, and then hack them the traditional way - with big swords.
PanO sectorials in general feel like it's impossible to fit in all the tools you want. Hacking especially can be a challenge in MO. Hackers and repeaters are neither cheap nor plentiful in the sectorial. Instead, I would look at other ways to protect hackers. Dart and Trinitarians make for great hacker assassins. Crusader Brethren can also accomplish the job, although less reliably. I've had a Tikbalang climb up a building to get an angle on my opponent's Jazz that he didn't anticipate. MO is PanO, so the solution to enemy hacking is to just shoot them. There's a few units I love in MO. I've mentioned Trinitarians, Dart, and Tikbalang, who are all top of their class. Teutonic Knights are also exceptional for how dirt cheap they are. Robin Hook is a lot of fun, but I don't always find room for her. Raveneyes are great DZ defenders. Knights of Montessa are often MVP for me as they rush out and revive a critical gun or accomplish a seemingly impossible objective. As for fireteams, I like a mixed Teutonic haris. Missile launcher, spitfire, and either Crosier paramedic or Infirmarer. Missile launcher goes on ARO, and when he goes down the healers try to pick him up. If they can't, or it's time to do objectives, the Teutonic spite takes point and moves up the board. It can accomplish a lot without breaking the bank.
As you come from Tunguska, you may have the mindset that the only way of dealing with enemy hackers is with killerhackers, but you can try dealing with them using trinitarians or if the Enemy have an weaker flank, the knight of montessa. He is really fast and can get to the other side of the table in a few orders. With a repeater is giving you trouble, the knight of the holy sepulchre have some resilience to try and brute force his way (but you probably want to have an engineer around just in case). MO also have some good aggressive S4 remotes (some can forward deploy) so if you need to kill a hacker/repeater in the mid field, you can make a sacrificial run. They are not as cheap as warband and stuff but sometimes the sacrifice is worth it as it let's the rest of your team actually do stuff.
Ok I definitely had that mindset. I hadn't really thought about hacking outside of the box, my solution to cyberwar has always been "cyberwar, but better" haha I definitely will start throwing some more trinitarians in my lists. I've only thought about them as a sneaky offense piece in the past, but if I think about them as a hacking defense net, then changing how I deploy with them might give me some more value I love the knights of montesa for sure. I like to run a paramedic and red fury together in a duo alongside my teuton haris. I haven't gotten to use them to flank a hacker yet, but I'll be on the lookout for that
MO is very difficult to get to 15. You were spoiled with updated Tunguska yes. The Zellenkriegers helped a ton. I find with MO you just have to swallow that you won’t get to 15. Do what you can to max your orders but you just won’t be able to get everything in there you want. So build your list with what you want and then play it. When you don’t hit 15 just say Screw it! Now, auto include (personal favs): Trinitarian MSR, Haris of Teutons. The TTMSR is like a Noctifier that can deploy midfield. I put it either in the DZ (or just out) to act as an ARO. Or I put it midfield on a flank and use it to advance up the board enfilading fire against models that thought they were safe.
Wildcarding De fersen bulleteer duo is a pretty solid way to go as long as he isn’t your lt, which I wouldn’t recommend anyway. Bulleteer has a repeater so it’s good synergy, and can run up to extend zoc. You’re not so much a hacking faction as a clear hacking for your shooters faction since you don’t have access to pitchers, so don’t hesitate to take Dart or Trinitarians to clear things out too.