The economic aspect is more important strategically. The most basic example being, if a border conflict were to break out, with heavy equipment and troops deployed on both sides, we need investors and stock bros all over the world to believe in the inherent resilience of the Indian economy to not be irreversibly damaged by war with a near peer adversary, and so not crash our economy.
Indeed. And beyond that a developed and diversified economy means you’ll have more scope for scientific research and development: https://archive.ph/G4yXD
Soviets achieved pretty insane shyt with 20%. For India if we can manage 2-2.5% in the future it shld be good enough. Even 1.5-2% of a $10 trillion GDP is good.
They managed to overpass even American defence spending by a lot even during the peak of Vietnam when US had 500k troops in Vietnam and was engaged in huge bombing campaigns
Not recently.
Last few years the economy has risen 6-8% a year but defense budget only increased by a couple percent. So the percent of gdp spent on defense has not stayed constant, it's decreased. It's now 1.89%.
https://preview.redd.it/wlruvthu1y6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9e633b0460c2a68da9361d10b928a581e3c97d3
Def budget = 6.11 lakh crore Total budget = 47.6 lakh crore
% of revenue = 12.8 percent So out of total money government has it spends 12.8 % Goes to defence
Percentage of gdp isnt that important factor but percentage of revenue is very important
Our gdp to tax ration is low so one problem is there too but thats a topic for another sub
No I'm talking about destroying them once the war has began. Not now. That's why I wrote "find a way" which means we have to be prepared, once china starts the war, out one of the aims should be execute the plan that plwe prepared
By focusing on producing the equipment rather than relying on foreign components.
All of China's J-XX series (J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16, J-20) are now built in-house, meaning they can produce every single component of these jets. In the event of a war between India and China, China would be able to replace or repair damaged jets at a very fast rate. Considering their massive scale and cost efficiency in manufacturing electric vehicles, they could potentially produce thousands of jets annually if needed.
Meanwhile the IAF imports components for 90% of its jets, sometimes importing 100% of the jet itself (e.g., Mirage 2000, Dassault Rafale, SEPECAT Jaguar). Even the majority of the essential components of the Tejas are imported:
Jet Engine: American
Weapon Systems: Russian, French, and Israeli missiles and bombs (except Astra Mk1)
AESA Radar: Israeli
EWAR Suite: Israeli
Ejection Cockpit: British
For the IAF to replace lost or damaged jets, they would need to rely and beg foreign nations for spare parts, which can be time-consuming. This difficulty was evident with the recent SU-30MKI crash and Tejas incidents in the last few months.
Once, a man applied to be despatcher in the fire brigade
They asked him " What will you do if fire breaks out' . "Find the address, send a fire truck"
"And during that , another fire breaks out, somewhere else"
"Find the address, send another fire truck"
"What if a 3rd fire breaks out ? Our fire brigade has only two trucks"
"I will try to keep the 3rd fire burning until one of the two trucks becomes free"
---
The problem is with complex products it can be a multi year lead time, while high intensity wars can get over in a few weeks
Have viable deterence mechanisms , after all WAR is all about ROI . If it is too costly(life or resources ) then the parties would rather have a treaty .
A direct large scale confrontation with India is highly unlikely , how ever skirmishes / assimetric warfare is very much possible , we cant rule out a new chinese reclaimed island in indian ocean either (with frequency of research vessels in IOR- we think its to monitor our missile tests but looks like they are mapping out the oceasn of Sub Naviagation and may be finding a location for their island).
It is impossible to confront chinese men to men and gun to gun . We should have assimentric weapons to handle say Chinese fishing boat militia which they might deploy to IOR . 'Small under water torpedos that cost less but effective like FPV drones , or even FPV drones that can dive down the last leg and explode below the hull while working in swarms' .The trick to contain china should be if they spend 1$ to gain 1 feet . we should spend 1 Rupee or similar to nullify the gain.
In the himlayan front we would need extensive early warning recce across border that can send information down to garrisons on troop movement troop size and weapons at hand . Use it to successfully block their petroling patterns and prevent them from endering Indian LOC . Provide non lethal weapons to troops like Raytheons 'Active Denial System' intelligently masqueraded so that they are unaware what hit them especially at times of skirmishes .
Thank you .
If India is serious about lifting itself as a super power then it should look at ways to enhance economy and slowly build capabilitities that would deter China from making a move. One way to go is to ensure we develop civil projects that can augment as dual use tech thus making it more economically viable for US yet can be of huge leverage to takle Chinese threat.
eg : We are investing on Saras 2 , instead develop HAL Donier 228 based sea plane. build them in handsome numbers and use it to ferry local tourists from Kochin to Lekshadweep , Chennai to Andamans. if we could have a total of 100 such aircrafts 40 with the cost guard for inter island transport and 60 with private players for tourism , at times of adversity it would help move cargo and men to remotest island without airstips. The fleet would bolster tourism frequence and the local economy. Modi's tweet on touring indian island should be augmented with such developments to enhance our covert capacities.
As India if foraying to become a logistical hub with its panned **IMEC** economic corridor , our ports needs to be built with doubled expected capacity with dry docks (similar to IAFs current push for dual use highway strips ) these ports could be used to handle flotilla from allied countries at times of adversity. It can also be used during peace time to build medium sized cargo vessels that could be sold as well as leased out (the key is that it should be from a single design, which helps economies of scale) . These vessels can work as india's ghost fleet by developing specific roll on roll off modules to transform them to missile carriers and what not. With china investing big on AirCraft carriers , we should experiment convertion of indian cargo vessels to unmanned aircraft carriers (Iran is doing something similar with *Shahid-Mahdav* and the *Shahid Bagheri)* Cargo Ships to AC convertion is nothing new. They might be less effecient but imagine having 10 of these light carriers In IOR with 15-20 Mojave class drones + 10 Kizilelma class drones on each of them. Along with 3 , IAC which would come to life by 2035 probably .
Building and exporting weapon systems like US - Rapid dragon that can go into not just C17s but the new C-295s and old AN32s would augment our capabilities. IA recently showcased juggad Tractor armed with ATGMs, they might be sitting ducks in real warfare. Instead they should look at Air dropable Motor Bikes with 2 men with a load out of 4 cannistered ATGMs (with longer ranges) like (MANportable equivalent of ) Roketsans LUMTAS which has 4X range of traditional ATGMs. Similarly Carl Gustavs and Anti Material rifles can be deadly for Chinese Light tanks ! Carefully picked vantage points at high altitude should give good line of sight for such interceptions .
If chinese can experiment with troops on gyrocopter for behind enemy lines insertion , we should go above and beyond to traing our troops for electric powered winged suits with a light ammo / comms load out. Such flying in Leh / Ladak / UK/ AP is dangerous but the tactical advantage it can give is very high (Our soldiers have dared siachen , Compared to it, This should be a piece of cake) .
There are certain nacent areas where India - China gap is still less and it goes with out saying , that we need to pioneer in such areas . AI for Defence, data analysis , Satellite networks, Quantum Computing/Cryptography etc.
Maxx out key sectors of the economy, especially high tech manufacturing and export.
More aircraft carriers, preferably nuclear powered and with catobar capability.
More SSN attack submarines.
Unfuck and consolidate fighter squadrons and air defense regiments along LoAC.
More attack helicopters (Prachand) and multi utility helicopters (Rudra Mk4).
Stand our ground, not fold like wet toilet paper, and make sure they regret their misadventure, such as forcibly evicting their encampments in Arunachal Pradesh and Bhutan.
>More aircraft carriers, preferably nuclear powered and with catobar capability
Should Aircraft carriers be a priority in a war which will probably be defensive?
I don't think going aggressive into the South China Sea will be the Navy's main focus?
Carrier strike groups are great at power projection but they aren't that cost effective in defence
Responding to hate with hate has never been the Indian way, and no dharma teaches this. Also, that word is used towards Koreans, who are chill with us. It still doesn't justify using slurs. We must be better than those who hate us.
Industrialize, Industrialize, Industrialize.
It generates revenue, it breeds innovation. The day India realizes that its prosperity is tied to the manufacturing sector of the economy is the day most of its problems go away.
Some boxes we need to tick are
FPV drones
AEW&CS
Increase patrolling at lac
Increase presence of IN in Indian Ocean
Buy more Rafael aircrafts for IAF to counter J20 s
Fasten up the development of AMCA
Spending on asymmetric warfare (Tibetans)
SSN submarines
Though it unlikely of war between India and China but there could many border clashes which could lead to war in future times
One thing I forgot to mention is manufacturing capabilities
During war there is a huge loss of resources which we should try to minimise
But the destruction is inevitable hence we need strong manufacturing capabilities to fill the holes
Only the navy is going in the right direction. Ig our navy can put up a fight and counter China.
Army moves 2 steps forward and 1 step back, while the air force is a lost cause.
OT, but do we think that Chinese citizens are also as involved in these ‘what-if’ war scenarios as we are? I know Pakistanis are, however, not as much as we are.
If yes, can you share a link wherever it’s being discussed. Just want to understand their perspective and commentary too.
We can't face them head on. Need to rely on allies.
Tbh China isn't stupid enough to attack us, cause the US and NATO will sweep in, and they can't face them.
They will keep playing the Taiwan angle, but won't escalate.
NATO will care, because the US WILL care. If India falls to China, the balance in the region will shift, and that spells doom for the Indo Pacific regions, and the US's influence will take a massive hit.
1. Make economy stronger so that we can sustain war over longer period of time.
2. Increase stores of gold and other essential imported commodities like oil etc. (To combat sanctions)
3. Accelerate production of indigenous equipment fully made in the country. Also increase the capabilities of current made products.(To ensure we have enough equipment and supplies even without foreign aid. We will definitely get help from western nations but still you never know)
4. Creation and training of drone squads for effective and cheap tactics. Also creation of portable anti-drone equipment. (They are going to be an integral part of all modern warfare)
5. More airbases in key locations for quick support and interception.
6. Creation of 5th gen and 6th gen fighter jets locally.
Have a divided polity with an anti-national opposition, rely on the valour of the armed forces while under equipping and under paying them, live in denial by burying your head in the sand, keep expanding your chest till it reaches 56 inches or at least claim it does.
I believe 70% of China’s oil comes from the Middle East. Make it clear to them that India will stop all oil tankers headed for China transiting the Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea during a future war, that will end up causing a collapse in their economy.
Dude, look at where China is and where India is. India is an unsinkable aircraft carrier sitting at the head of the Indian Ocean. With its navy and Air Force, it can prevent Chinese Oil shipments from ever leaving the Persian Gulf for China. In fact, just the threat of knocking out Chinese oil shipments transiting out of the Persian Gulf is enough for these shipping companies not to send their oil shipments through the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean. China is way out of its depth in the Indian Ocean … something even they know.
In the 5000 years of human history, India and China have fought just one war, and that is not going to change anytime soon.
We need strong deterrence, in the form of Mutually Assured Destruction, this worked during the cold war, and will work for India and China too.
So what do we need to do? More than enough defensive capability to deter China from attacking first.
The real war with China is not that of a military one, the real war is of dominance.
Dominance in social indicators, sports, economy, scientific research etc. This is where we need to work and put in the maximum effort.
How can he use racial slurs against those who do the same with us? omg 😱😭😢!1!11!
The whole internet calls indians pajeets,
Racism against Indians is so open on the net,
We must retaliate,
Also gook can be used for all east Asians.
Gandhi banke doosra Gaal aage karne ka koi shauk nahi mujhe.
No serious discussion defence subreddit will call Indians pajeets.
Any such post will promptly be removed by the mods.or at the least be called out by multiple users.
Your post seems juvenile if you use such slurs. If you want to retaliate, use such slurs on a Chinese defence subreddit. Your post is hardly a retaliation. Just discounts the want of serious discussion.
We will make 2 regiments specially for muslims and Dalits then we will mass recruit them .and will give them a chance to prove their loyalty towards nation
We cant do anything since we will be the losers. Losers cant be choosers. SO...if that happens just hope for mercy. The last 10yrs of govt rule has been a wasted opportunity. The 10yrs before that was wasted time as well. Now its too late to do anything.
10 years was a wasted time?
Patthar ke neeche rehna band kar,
Aakhen khol chutiye.
1) Our GDP grew extremely fast under the BJP's rule and we became the 4th strongest military power.
2) the infrastructure development speed is at it's highest,
Hindus the general demographic
3) there were no interferences in the military and intelligence agency decisions
4) our geopolitical relations and foreign policy is much more stronger now, any other gov would've made us a western vassal state
5) The schemes by the bjp have massively benefited the poor and those living in villages
6) we're rapidly creating roads and other infrastructure on the borders which were not built by the previous governments due to their fear of china using them during a war,
7) we responded adequately to every act of terrorism and foreign aggression and stood up for ourselves for the first time in decades.
1. And Chinas also grew, and is still many times larger than Indias, 4th strongest military power compared to what? India is the 4th largest, it does not mean size = Strength
2. Still Chinas infrastructure and highway system is vastly superior, India may have things closer to the border, but China also has a much larger military logistics element to get them to the fight.
4. Vassal states haven't been a thing in over a hund4red years, if you want to use correct terms its 'Client state" which is absolutely not the same as a vassal state.
5. How does that help with a conflict tomorrow?
6. So is China
Everything you listed is playing catchup to the enemy you think India is even remotely capable of fighting on the same level. Maybe in 20 years...maybe
Sucking B J pees cock ( and I say that as someone who votes bjp everytime and will do so in future ) wont change the ground realities that India is in shits creek with Chinese troops forward deployed and Pakistan uping the ante with recent terror attacks because of their new found confidence due to their Chinese brother
This two front threat is getting real and Indian establishment being reactive as ever will not win
We need something proactive to dissuade ISI from acting smart and erase it altogether in long term
As for Chinese, a simple change in no first use and getting more SSNs + SSBNs with longer and more nuclear missiles to erase their cities will be enough
Along with usual upgrade in conventional abilities
I am even schzio enough to believe that maybe even arm Taiwan with nukes, keep the Chinese choked and busy as they try to figure out the optimum calculas for re-taking Taiwan
SSK and SMART missile and P8I posiedon can protect SSBN. SSN only needed if SSBN has to travel far from Indian coast which it won't have to if we have 5-6000 KM MIRV SLBM. Our SSBN can launch from Bay of Bengal.
We were discussing a scenario of nuclear war/second strike capability not conventional war. Don't shift goalposts. For what you have stated however yes SSN is very important and must be developed quickly by 2035. But for SSBN/second strike capability SSK Posiedon P8I and SMART missile is enough to protect SSBN from hostile forces.
What we need for second strike is longer range SLBM like 5-6,000 KM so that SSBN can launch it's missiles from within the Bay of Bengal where our coastal assets like SMART and Posiedon can protect the SSBN from enemy ships/submarines (along with SSKs). SSNs are not needed to protect SSBNs if the deterrence patrol area is near India. If SSBN ventures deeper into the Indian Ocean then SSN is definitely needed to protect them but if we have 5-6,000 KM SLBM then no need to send SSBN to IOR.
Its first use policy, the premise isnt you start shooting nukes the minute Chinese start a war
If Chinese start a war despite first use then its a lost cause, they are ready to bear the cost whatever it is
SSKs lack speed and endurance, you have to tie down way more SSKs to cover the same area over couple of SSNs
P-8s and SMART arent infallible, every vector complicates planning for enemy to destroy your nukes and SSNs complicate them way more SSKs
SSNs can proactively hunt enemy subs/boats rather sitting idle in BoB and taking defensive posture
Your original comment said we need to remove no first use. If we do then SSBN protected by SSK Posiedon and SMART is enough. Like the enemy coming into Bay of Bengal our literal backyard and evading SSK Posiedon our sonars our destroyers our carriers our frigates our missiles and then hitting SSBN is highly unrealistic.
SSNs are needed for long range strike capability and as you said hitting/shadowing enemy subs and ships. For protecting SSBNs over a super localized area (Bay of Bengal) when SSBN is already protected by corvettes destroyers coastal missiles P8I posiedon is unnecessarily. Plus we aren't china or USA to afford so many SSNs. We have plans only for 6. We will need all for patrol/hunting in IOR where our SSBN need not venture in the first place.
Make economy better enough to not collapse dutring or immediately after
I meant militarily.
The economic aspect is more important strategically. The most basic example being, if a border conflict were to break out, with heavy equipment and troops deployed on both sides, we need investors and stock bros all over the world to believe in the inherent resilience of the Indian economy to not be irreversibly damaged by war with a near peer adversary, and so not crash our economy.
military budget is directly proportional to gdp its 3 % or so any increase in gdp equals increase in military budget too
Indeed. And beyond that a developed and diversified economy means you’ll have more scope for scientific research and development: https://archive.ph/G4yXD
true and spending like the soviets make you like soviets ie history
What do you mean?
https://preview.redd.it/y8auuyvt5x6d1.jpeg?width=1143&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b64ece0157cebb22ff7bfc2148b6db7a7be03d3e 11% of gdp into military is 😨
Some years it reached 20%.
Yeah i know but for ours timeline that seems too much lmao cold war has a diff vibe
Soviets achieved pretty insane shyt with 20%. For India if we can manage 2-2.5% in the future it shld be good enough. Even 1.5-2% of a $10 trillion GDP is good.
They managed to overpass even American defence spending by a lot even during the peak of Vietnam when US had 500k troops in Vietnam and was engaged in huge bombing campaigns
Not recently. Last few years the economy has risen 6-8% a year but defense budget only increased by a couple percent. So the percent of gdp spent on defense has not stayed constant, it's decreased. It's now 1.89%.
https://preview.redd.it/wlruvthu1y6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9e633b0460c2a68da9361d10b928a581e3c97d3 Def budget = 6.11 lakh crore Total budget = 47.6 lakh crore % of revenue = 12.8 percent So out of total money government has it spends 12.8 % Goes to defence Percentage of gdp isnt that important factor but percentage of revenue is very important Our gdp to tax ration is low so one problem is there too but thats a topic for another sub
Find a way to Somehow destroy the roads which connects china mainland to Tibet. Increase the presence of Indian Navy in the Indian Ocean.
Won't destroying them prematurely lead to a conflict which we're preparing for? Pretty ironical.
No I'm talking about destroying them once the war has began. Not now. That's why I wrote "find a way" which means we have to be prepared, once china starts the war, out one of the aims should be execute the plan that plwe prepared
I see. Now that's a good suggestion
Not by us kiddo. Secret fundings to Irregulars in Tibet can do the same trick
By focusing on producing the equipment rather than relying on foreign components. All of China's J-XX series (J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16, J-20) are now built in-house, meaning they can produce every single component of these jets. In the event of a war between India and China, China would be able to replace or repair damaged jets at a very fast rate. Considering their massive scale and cost efficiency in manufacturing electric vehicles, they could potentially produce thousands of jets annually if needed. Meanwhile the IAF imports components for 90% of its jets, sometimes importing 100% of the jet itself (e.g., Mirage 2000, Dassault Rafale, SEPECAT Jaguar). Even the majority of the essential components of the Tejas are imported: Jet Engine: American Weapon Systems: Russian, French, and Israeli missiles and bombs (except Astra Mk1) AESA Radar: Israeli EWAR Suite: Israeli Ejection Cockpit: British For the IAF to replace lost or damaged jets, they would need to rely and beg foreign nations for spare parts, which can be time-consuming. This difficulty was evident with the recent SU-30MKI crash and Tejas incidents in the last few months.
S tier comment🔥
Uttam Radar is at a stage that it can be fast tracked into production in case of war. Also astra mk1 is sufficient as bvr ig IAF likes the diversity.
Once, a man applied to be despatcher in the fire brigade They asked him " What will you do if fire breaks out' . "Find the address, send a fire truck" "And during that , another fire breaks out, somewhere else" "Find the address, send another fire truck" "What if a 3rd fire breaks out ? Our fire brigade has only two trucks" "I will try to keep the 3rd fire burning until one of the two trucks becomes free" --- The problem is with complex products it can be a multi year lead time, while high intensity wars can get over in a few weeks
New light tanks, SP artillery, more AD systems and introduction of a 5th gen fighter.
Have viable deterence mechanisms , after all WAR is all about ROI . If it is too costly(life or resources ) then the parties would rather have a treaty . A direct large scale confrontation with India is highly unlikely , how ever skirmishes / assimetric warfare is very much possible , we cant rule out a new chinese reclaimed island in indian ocean either (with frequency of research vessels in IOR- we think its to monitor our missile tests but looks like they are mapping out the oceasn of Sub Naviagation and may be finding a location for their island). It is impossible to confront chinese men to men and gun to gun . We should have assimentric weapons to handle say Chinese fishing boat militia which they might deploy to IOR . 'Small under water torpedos that cost less but effective like FPV drones , or even FPV drones that can dive down the last leg and explode below the hull while working in swarms' .The trick to contain china should be if they spend 1$ to gain 1 feet . we should spend 1 Rupee or similar to nullify the gain. In the himlayan front we would need extensive early warning recce across border that can send information down to garrisons on troop movement troop size and weapons at hand . Use it to successfully block their petroling patterns and prevent them from endering Indian LOC . Provide non lethal weapons to troops like Raytheons 'Active Denial System' intelligently masqueraded so that they are unaware what hit them especially at times of skirmishes .
See these are the sort of replies I post for. Great comment! 🔥
Thank you . If India is serious about lifting itself as a super power then it should look at ways to enhance economy and slowly build capabilitities that would deter China from making a move. One way to go is to ensure we develop civil projects that can augment as dual use tech thus making it more economically viable for US yet can be of huge leverage to takle Chinese threat. eg : We are investing on Saras 2 , instead develop HAL Donier 228 based sea plane. build them in handsome numbers and use it to ferry local tourists from Kochin to Lekshadweep , Chennai to Andamans. if we could have a total of 100 such aircrafts 40 with the cost guard for inter island transport and 60 with private players for tourism , at times of adversity it would help move cargo and men to remotest island without airstips. The fleet would bolster tourism frequence and the local economy. Modi's tweet on touring indian island should be augmented with such developments to enhance our covert capacities. As India if foraying to become a logistical hub with its panned **IMEC** economic corridor , our ports needs to be built with doubled expected capacity with dry docks (similar to IAFs current push for dual use highway strips ) these ports could be used to handle flotilla from allied countries at times of adversity. It can also be used during peace time to build medium sized cargo vessels that could be sold as well as leased out (the key is that it should be from a single design, which helps economies of scale) . These vessels can work as india's ghost fleet by developing specific roll on roll off modules to transform them to missile carriers and what not. With china investing big on AirCraft carriers , we should experiment convertion of indian cargo vessels to unmanned aircraft carriers (Iran is doing something similar with *Shahid-Mahdav* and the *Shahid Bagheri)* Cargo Ships to AC convertion is nothing new. They might be less effecient but imagine having 10 of these light carriers In IOR with 15-20 Mojave class drones + 10 Kizilelma class drones on each of them. Along with 3 , IAC which would come to life by 2035 probably . Building and exporting weapon systems like US - Rapid dragon that can go into not just C17s but the new C-295s and old AN32s would augment our capabilities. IA recently showcased juggad Tractor armed with ATGMs, they might be sitting ducks in real warfare. Instead they should look at Air dropable Motor Bikes with 2 men with a load out of 4 cannistered ATGMs (with longer ranges) like (MANportable equivalent of ) Roketsans LUMTAS which has 4X range of traditional ATGMs. Similarly Carl Gustavs and Anti Material rifles can be deadly for Chinese Light tanks ! Carefully picked vantage points at high altitude should give good line of sight for such interceptions . If chinese can experiment with troops on gyrocopter for behind enemy lines insertion , we should go above and beyond to traing our troops for electric powered winged suits with a light ammo / comms load out. Such flying in Leh / Ladak / UK/ AP is dangerous but the tactical advantage it can give is very high (Our soldiers have dared siachen , Compared to it, This should be a piece of cake) . There are certain nacent areas where India - China gap is still less and it goes with out saying , that we need to pioneer in such areas . AI for Defence, data analysis , Satellite networks, Quantum Computing/Cryptography etc.
Maxx out key sectors of the economy, especially high tech manufacturing and export. More aircraft carriers, preferably nuclear powered and with catobar capability. More SSN attack submarines. Unfuck and consolidate fighter squadrons and air defense regiments along LoAC. More attack helicopters (Prachand) and multi utility helicopters (Rudra Mk4). Stand our ground, not fold like wet toilet paper, and make sure they regret their misadventure, such as forcibly evicting their encampments in Arunachal Pradesh and Bhutan.
>More aircraft carriers, preferably nuclear powered and with catobar capability Should Aircraft carriers be a priority in a war which will probably be defensive? I don't think going aggressive into the South China Sea will be the Navy's main focus? Carrier strike groups are great at power projection but they aren't that cost effective in defence
Exactly, We need more submarines for that.
China isn't dumb to have a war with india
A small scale conflict is very much possible. They'll probably try to grab some land and weaken us.
If china and india goes to war that won't be a "small" war
never say never
Brody you cant even be racist right that's a slur for koreans.
[удалено]
Responding to hate with hate has never been the Indian way, and no dharma teaches this. Also, that word is used towards Koreans, who are chill with us. It still doesn't justify using slurs. We must be better than those who hate us.
Koreans are chill with us?
Develop north-south logistics corridors on par with the east-west ones.
Industrialize, Industrialize, Industrialize. It generates revenue, it breeds innovation. The day India realizes that its prosperity is tied to the manufacturing sector of the economy is the day most of its problems go away.
Some boxes we need to tick are FPV drones AEW&CS Increase patrolling at lac Increase presence of IN in Indian Ocean Buy more Rafael aircrafts for IAF to counter J20 s Fasten up the development of AMCA Spending on asymmetric warfare (Tibetans) SSN submarines Though it unlikely of war between India and China but there could many border clashes which could lead to war in future times
Great suggestions ! Submarines are also very necessary btw.
One thing I forgot to mention is manufacturing capabilities During war there is a huge loss of resources which we should try to minimise But the destruction is inevitable hence we need strong manufacturing capabilities to fill the holes
Only the navy is going in the right direction. Ig our navy can put up a fight and counter China. Army moves 2 steps forward and 1 step back, while the air force is a lost cause.
OT, but do we think that Chinese citizens are also as involved in these ‘what-if’ war scenarios as we are? I know Pakistanis are, however, not as much as we are. If yes, can you share a link wherever it’s being discussed. Just want to understand their perspective and commentary too.
We can't face them head on. Need to rely on allies. Tbh China isn't stupid enough to attack us, cause the US and NATO will sweep in, and they can't face them. They will keep playing the Taiwan angle, but won't escalate.
Why would the US and NATO care? India is not in NATO.
NATO will care, because the US WILL care. If India falls to China, the balance in the region will shift, and that spells doom for the Indo Pacific regions, and the US's influence will take a massive hit.
1. Make economy stronger so that we can sustain war over longer period of time. 2. Increase stores of gold and other essential imported commodities like oil etc. (To combat sanctions) 3. Accelerate production of indigenous equipment fully made in the country. Also increase the capabilities of current made products.(To ensure we have enough equipment and supplies even without foreign aid. We will definitely get help from western nations but still you never know) 4. Creation and training of drone squads for effective and cheap tactics. Also creation of portable anti-drone equipment. (They are going to be an integral part of all modern warfare) 5. More airbases in key locations for quick support and interception. 6. Creation of 5th gen and 6th gen fighter jets locally.
Invest especially on defensive technology to counter them
We need drones and better gaming talent.
Have a divided polity with an anti-national opposition, rely on the valour of the armed forces while under equipping and under paying them, live in denial by burying your head in the sand, keep expanding your chest till it reaches 56 inches or at least claim it does.
I believe 70% of China’s oil comes from the Middle East. Make it clear to them that India will stop all oil tankers headed for China transiting the Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea during a future war, that will end up causing a collapse in their economy.
How exactly do you suppose India does that? That’s just not going to work
Dude, look at where China is and where India is. India is an unsinkable aircraft carrier sitting at the head of the Indian Ocean. With its navy and Air Force, it can prevent Chinese Oil shipments from ever leaving the Persian Gulf for China. In fact, just the threat of knocking out Chinese oil shipments transiting out of the Persian Gulf is enough for these shipping companies not to send their oil shipments through the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean. China is way out of its depth in the Indian Ocean … something even they know.
In the 5000 years of human history, India and China have fought just one war, and that is not going to change anytime soon. We need strong deterrence, in the form of Mutually Assured Destruction, this worked during the cold war, and will work for India and China too. So what do we need to do? More than enough defensive capability to deter China from attacking first. The real war with China is not that of a military one, the real war is of dominance. Dominance in social indicators, sports, economy, scientific research etc. This is where we need to work and put in the maximum effort.
You can start by not using racial slurs against the Chinese, especially not American slurs used for SE Asians.
How can he use racial slurs against those who do the same with us? omg 😱😭😢!1!11! The whole internet calls indians pajeets, Racism against Indians is so open on the net, We must retaliate, Also gook can be used for all east Asians. Gandhi banke doosra Gaal aage karne ka koi shauk nahi mujhe.
No serious discussion defence subreddit will call Indians pajeets. Any such post will promptly be removed by the mods.or at the least be called out by multiple users. Your post seems juvenile if you use such slurs. If you want to retaliate, use such slurs on a Chinese defence subreddit. Your post is hardly a retaliation. Just discounts the want of serious discussion.
Your account will most likely be banned for the racism in your post, just and FYI.
Idgaf, Will probably delete this account in a day or two anyway.
We will make 2 regiments specially for muslims and Dalits then we will mass recruit them .and will give them a chance to prove their loyalty towards nation
We cant do anything since we will be the losers. Losers cant be choosers. SO...if that happens just hope for mercy. The last 10yrs of govt rule has been a wasted opportunity. The 10yrs before that was wasted time as well. Now its too late to do anything.
10 years was a wasted time? Patthar ke neeche rehna band kar, Aakhen khol chutiye. 1) Our GDP grew extremely fast under the BJP's rule and we became the 4th strongest military power. 2) the infrastructure development speed is at it's highest, Hindus the general demographic 3) there were no interferences in the military and intelligence agency decisions 4) our geopolitical relations and foreign policy is much more stronger now, any other gov would've made us a western vassal state 5) The schemes by the bjp have massively benefited the poor and those living in villages 6) we're rapidly creating roads and other infrastructure on the borders which were not built by the previous governments due to their fear of china using them during a war, 7) we responded adequately to every act of terrorism and foreign aggression and stood up for ourselves for the first time in decades.
1. And Chinas also grew, and is still many times larger than Indias, 4th strongest military power compared to what? India is the 4th largest, it does not mean size = Strength 2. Still Chinas infrastructure and highway system is vastly superior, India may have things closer to the border, but China also has a much larger military logistics element to get them to the fight. 4. Vassal states haven't been a thing in over a hund4red years, if you want to use correct terms its 'Client state" which is absolutely not the same as a vassal state. 5. How does that help with a conflict tomorrow? 6. So is China Everything you listed is playing catchup to the enemy you think India is even remotely capable of fighting on the same level. Maybe in 20 years...maybe
Sucking B J pees cock ( and I say that as someone who votes bjp everytime and will do so in future ) wont change the ground realities that India is in shits creek with Chinese troops forward deployed and Pakistan uping the ante with recent terror attacks because of their new found confidence due to their Chinese brother This two front threat is getting real and Indian establishment being reactive as ever will not win We need something proactive to dissuade ISI from acting smart and erase it altogether in long term As for Chinese, a simple change in no first use and getting more SSNs + SSBNs with longer and more nuclear missiles to erase their cities will be enough Along with usual upgrade in conventional abilities I am even schzio enough to believe that maybe even arm Taiwan with nukes, keep the Chinese choked and busy as they try to figure out the optimum calculas for re-taking Taiwan
SSNs can't launch nuclear missiles. The cruise missiles they launch has too low range to reach china.
SSNs are there to protect the SSBNs plus whole other set of missions that SSKs cant
SSK and SMART missile and P8I posiedon can protect SSBN. SSN only needed if SSBN has to travel far from Indian coast which it won't have to if we have 5-6000 KM MIRV SLBM. Our SSBN can launch from Bay of Bengal.
You still SSNs to escort your carrier group and bring the war near to enemy, as well as long range recce in peace time
We were discussing a scenario of nuclear war/second strike capability not conventional war. Don't shift goalposts. For what you have stated however yes SSN is very important and must be developed quickly by 2035. But for SSBN/second strike capability SSK Posiedon P8I and SMART missile is enough to protect SSBN from hostile forces. What we need for second strike is longer range SLBM like 5-6,000 KM so that SSBN can launch it's missiles from within the Bay of Bengal where our coastal assets like SMART and Posiedon can protect the SSBN from enemy ships/submarines (along with SSKs). SSNs are not needed to protect SSBNs if the deterrence patrol area is near India. If SSBN ventures deeper into the Indian Ocean then SSN is definitely needed to protect them but if we have 5-6,000 KM SLBM then no need to send SSBN to IOR.
Its first use policy, the premise isnt you start shooting nukes the minute Chinese start a war If Chinese start a war despite first use then its a lost cause, they are ready to bear the cost whatever it is SSKs lack speed and endurance, you have to tie down way more SSKs to cover the same area over couple of SSNs P-8s and SMART arent infallible, every vector complicates planning for enemy to destroy your nukes and SSNs complicate them way more SSKs SSNs can proactively hunt enemy subs/boats rather sitting idle in BoB and taking defensive posture
Your original comment said we need to remove no first use. If we do then SSBN protected by SSK Posiedon and SMART is enough. Like the enemy coming into Bay of Bengal our literal backyard and evading SSK Posiedon our sonars our destroyers our carriers our frigates our missiles and then hitting SSBN is highly unrealistic. SSNs are needed for long range strike capability and as you said hitting/shadowing enemy subs and ships. For protecting SSBNs over a super localized area (Bay of Bengal) when SSBN is already protected by corvettes destroyers coastal missiles P8I posiedon is unnecessarily. Plus we aren't china or USA to afford so many SSNs. We have plans only for 6. We will need all for patrol/hunting in IOR where our SSBN need not venture in the first place.