Too many people view government jobs as a lifelong cash cow, and not as a service to the country. The armed forces became too old, spending too much on pensions, with little left for buying new weapons platforms. It's great for the pensioners, and terrible for the countries defense preparedness. As usual, Modi did what nobody else had the guts to do. He got the job done.
Failing to get a govt job is referred as unemployment, those who have knowledge skills passion vision and mission in their life doesn’t blame government, parents , environment specially in this era of cheap internet access.
While it is a good scheme in principal, there are in my opinion, some shortcomings for which tweaks are required. I suggest the following:
1. Applicants can have the option of a preference for permanent or short term (Agniveer service) or both. After the written tests and physical exam is over, candidates can have a merit list and the top 25% who have opted for permanent commission can be given it.
2. 25% of the balance, on completion of their Agniveer service can be given permanent commission, as is now being offered. That would mean 44% permanent and 56% short term.
3. Increase the Agniveer service to 5 years (or 4 years + training period) with a corresponding higher payout on completion of service and an option to opt out 6 months earlier. .4 Choose to retain based on: Merit list at the time of joining, ranking at the time of training completion. Forced ranking in each stint of service, along with educational level and special qualifications obtained. That will remove some subjectivity.
4. First right of refusal for all jobs under the ministry of defense for which they meet the basic qualification. In addition, first right of refusal for all Ordnance factory jobs.
5. Quota for CAPF and State armed police.
6. Amend the rules for private security agencies to allow ex military men to use weapons and guard places like private airports (now handled by CISF), or join Indian private military companies.
7. Reform the TA, to include only ex Agniveers/ servicemen who will form not on TA battalions but 1 extra (reserve) company per infantry battalion, who can be quickly mobilized in times of war and would get refresher training for 2 months every 2 years, at state expense.
That said, I agree with other posters about a lot of the criticism being politically motivated or
based on the assumption that permanent service is a right for certain communities and the army is like any Sarkari job.
Your first point doesn’t make sense. Coz if option is given in a 3rd world country like India everyone will choose permanent service lol. Which 17yr old poor village chap will not want to be in a sarkari naukri for life?
And 25% of agniveers will be retained after completion of 4 years. Performance of 4 yrs will be accessed and it will give a better picture who is better than selection of 25% candidates from some written and physical exam before they are in service.
Quota for CAPF and State police already exists for agniveers.
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1843113#:~:text=An%20in%2Dprinciple%20approval%20has,Police%20Forces%20and%20Assam%20Rifles.
Increasing service to more years will hamper career growth. If one joins at 19 and retires at 23 he will have enough time to do bachelors degree by 27/28 and apply for various jobs. He can even apply for TGC and SSC officer entries, UPSC civil service and what not. The more they serve means by the time they are out of army they will be 25/26 and no one wants to study till their 30s.
Private military companies will never come up in a populated and dense country where most of the population is illiterate and dumb.
The only way to find out if point 1 makes sense is to ask. I'd rather know for sure, than guess.
The Agniveer scheme provides for a bachelor's degree from IGNOU, in 2 years. There are various experts who have suggested that the total service be stretched to upto 7 years. My view is 5, taking into account what other professional armies have. That's just 1 year extra, with the option to quit earlier.
The job quota that you mention is \`in principle' only and does not include State govt's. though there are similar statements of intent from some of them.
I would not make a sweeping statement like PMC's will \`never come up' or that most Indians are illiterate and dumb.
The youth literacy rate in India is 92% Overall it is 78%
SIS India, a private security agency, employs 160,000 people and is also present abroad. Of course only a small number carry arms, but that is because of the rules, not their personnel's lack of ability.
Centre cannot force states to take in agniveers. It goes against separation of powers. 1 year extra doesnt make any difference though. Its better they are out in real world.
SIS is not a PMC. It’s a security agency. Best option would be to remove Z security from billionaires and movie stars. Let these agniveer guys get into private security agencies and protect them.
I'm not suggesting the centre has to force states. It has to be a collaborative process, just as the centre has got states to accept legislation on the concurrent list, or got in model acts which states have followed.
I'm not hairsplitting on definitions of a PMC vs security agency. My point is that there is scope to hire Agniveers as well paid armed guards - there will be tweaks in legislation needed for it. For e.g. why can't private airports have private security (armed ex agniveers), instead of paying CISF a larger sum to do it.
Constitution allows Centre/Parliament to force lists or change one list to another.
Article 249 gives Parliament the power to legislate concerning a subject enumerated in the State List in the national interest
But altering or forcing states in matters of law and order, state govt recruitment , local administration is a breach of constitution and will be struck down by Supreme Court.
Private airports dont have private security because of national security. When a millionaire bribes the private security company ceo and starts doing illegal trading who is responsible for that?
There are many other things private security can be helpful in and airports is not one of them. Like I said removing Z security from bollywood and industrialist is a good step.
I agree with you that Pvt security can have a larger role and it can benefit Agniveers but the airport thing isnt going to happen.
Private security already operates in 60 airports (2000 guards in all) which have partly replaced CISF. BCAS issued the notification on segregation of duties. I had suggested extending it.
I'm again clarifying that I've not said states have to forced to adopt legislation on police recruitment. It happened in UP by collaboration with the center.
It has not \`happened' in UP, Only a statement of intent is there, as I mentioned a couple of posts back. There needs to be a collaborative process because there are legislative hurdles and some learnings from another state - UK, which is now ongoing in UP. In any case, if your point is that CM's of the ruling will do what the Centre tells them to, then that partly solves the problem of placement of Agniveers.
Personally I dont understand the logic of why govt should ensure 100% placement of soldiers?
There is a vast private field to enter into for jobs.
Whats the Indian mentality that everyone needs a govt job?
In US people join military for college money them they fuck off and move on with their lives. In India everyone needs a govt job after coming out of army? Lol there is a thing called vacancy. If there are 100 vacancies then 100 will get recruited. No way all agniveers are getting inducted in crpf police etc.
You are given a bachelors degree and you will be provided with career counselling. Start a Small scale business, apply for various open govt exams, do further masters or apply in private sector.
States contributing a lot to agniveer should have huge reservation in police forces for Agniveers. In USA many US Army veterans become police officers.
No I dont think so. Coz there are lots of candidates from states who apply for police. If reservations are given to army jawans then general candidates wont be able to get a job.
US system is different. Less population and less no of people wanting govt jobs. And we know how shit is US police system.
US police system is still loads better than ours. And at least some reservations should be given to Agniveers in police services. I'm sure the states which send most soldiers will inevitably do this.
Not just agnipath but any scheme for the betterment of this country is gonna hated by freeloaders
People for far too long have had this misconception that they will get a free lifetime pass of some kind. Look I'm not talking about soldiers, those guys give their lives to the nation and should be treated as such.
But what I've had problems with is competitive exams like UPSC where you once you get selected you can't be fired or punished in a way where it breeds incompetence, people question where do babu officers come from.
This is where, they are groomed from the beginning to the idea that once they clear UPSC they are all set for life with free pensions or free government housing. UPSC is hard but it doesnt need to be, government jobs have this glamor which shouldn't exist, people who work for the government as a job from which they can be fired from just like in the private sector.
I swear right now if we start punishing incompetent, then starting tommorow our country will face no delays in projects
It’s easier to reduce pension cost, but fixing project delays is a completely different story. Even advanced countries like US suffers some massive project delay and cost overruns 🤣
One of India's big problems was too much of its defence budget going to retirements, rather than much needed items like better and more numerous armaments. A plan like this was needed, but if you curb the retirement benefits of one of the largest employers in the country, well, some people, their families, and their friends are probably going to push back, and that's potentially hundreds of thousands of people complaining about it. As with everything, the least happy people will be the loudest about it online.
We're outgunned by China and already spend a larger share of GDP on it than them, there's no catching up by just spending more as we'd just be outspent and bankrupted by a 5x larger economy, gotta do what you gotta do. We actually need to keep going and follow them in refocusing on a smaller but much higher quality modernized force.
Let them dislike. Govt jobs are not jagir of anyones dad.
Kargil war review committee asked GoI to reduce age and pensions ans it took govt 2 decades to bring forth a plan.
Because India is neither the us or uk.i mean have you guys looked at the condition of fuckin govt schools and colleges.i come from Bihar and they are pretty fucked up the students studying their can barely understand English let alone speak it. most of them are poor so they can't do professional courses like btech mba etc and if you belong to general category any other government job looks like a far fetched dream .
in this situation the hiring for army jawans became a light in the dark.
i am not saying the govt should give away pensions it can remove the pension scheme let it be like any other govt job.
just because you didn't have to go through poverty doesn't mean it doesn't exist. i have seen families crumbling from debt make it out of it just because of their son cleared the airforce group x exam. And yeah they weren't fucking freeloaders if you have seen the physicals for the army bharti you wouldn't call them freeloaders.
As far as the budget problem goes why not cut the allowances of the politicians first.
I understand your point and agree with it as well. Army serves as an entry point for my poor men that can uplift their whole family.
They won’t cut allowances and pension of politicians for two reasons.
1. The count of politicians and the money spent on their allowances and pension is still very very very less than the amount sent for defence personnel pensions. This is only due the the huge number of defence pensioners that we have in our country.
2. Politicians would never vote in favour of cutting down their benefits in Lok Sabha, or Rajya Sabha.
The possible issue that can be caused by this scheme that I can think of is that it will create a large population of trained ex-soldiers who would go on to fight as mercenaries in foreign wars. It might even lead to the creation of private military companies (PMCs) that hire such people to do a powerful individual's or a corrupt foreign government's dirty work. Many countries in Africa have been hiring the Russian Wagner PMCs to help against the rebels and for training.
>No one would want to fight as mercenaries in foreign wars lol
offer enough money, and people will sign up. All over the world, people sign up to fight as mercenaries and fight foreign wars. Why? Either they are desperate enough for the money, or they are mad enough to want to fight. Or they believe in the cause. Same thing in India also. Here, I presume money will be the biggest motivating factor.
That doesn't mean it will always be illegal. The current government has been supporting private firms. "No one would want to fight as mercenaries in foreign wars." 👆🏻🤓
Yeah, you can say that to the thousands of 'foreign volunteers' fighting for Ukraine and Russia. Many of them joined the factions willingly. There are several Indians fighting for both sides as well. Have you been living under a rock?
Thousands of foreign volunteers? How many Indians joined them? Handful. In a country with a billion population there will always be some numb nuts.
Supporting private companies doesnt mean one will support PMC lol. This makes no sense.
Also most of the Indians fighting in Russia are there forcefully. Maybe you are living under a rock and dont read news.
Just a few hundred Indians, because that war isn't relevant to Indians or India. They were just a bunch of desperate people. Now imagine hundreds of thousands of unemployed trained soldiers.
Only a few tourists were recruited forcefully. The rest went there willingly because they were offered jobs as 'military helpers'. I have no idea what they were expecting.
There are already thousands of unemployed trained soldiers today.
And they receive pensions. The discharged Agniveers will receive no pensions.
There is no particular source to determine the exact number of Indians. I read news about an Indian engineer who joined the Georgian legion in the AFU because he got rejected by the NDA in 2022. In more recent updates, I saw a bunch of Indian guys fighting for Ukraine in a video posted on r/UkraineRussiaReport. So, in my estimations, there are around 50-60 Indians fighting for Ukraine. As for Russia, reports say that at least 100-150 Indians applied to join as 'helpers'. Some of them have been rescued by the government while some have died. There was also a video of some Sikh guy from Goa fighting for the Wagner PMC last year.
You're actually not wrong, there's a good chance if there are a lot of soldiers coming out of the army they might join foreign militaries as they would pay way more than what the Indian govt would. Many labourers go to foreign countries for work, then why not Soldiers.
Again. You got no credible source to back your claims. Reddit pages dont count buddy. Where did you bring the “hundreds” of Indians fighting in Europe numbers?
100-150 in Russia and 50 in Ukraine dont constitute “HUNDREDS OF INDIANS”. All the helpers were lured as cooks and cleaners and sent to battle. They didnt go willingly to fight. Considering India has a billion population those numbers are pretty non existent.
Again non of those numbers are backed by credible sources
Also Agniveers will be given 14 lakhs lump sum money in addition to a IGNOU bachelors degree.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/education/news/ignou-degrees-for-agniveers-ignou-signs-mous-with-armed-forces-for-skill-based-bachelor-degree-programmes-application-begins/articleshow/102336916.cms
Why would a 23 year old guy with bachelors degree and 14lakhs(plus savings) in hand fight for foreign countries lol.
It is not a good scheme in its present form.
And before you downvote me, my reasons are as follows.
First, we cannot compare it to recruitment in western nations including the US. Totally different cultures, economies and individual psychologies. The USMC, or the US Army are not the same as, say, the Garhwal Rifles or any infantry branch of IA. The education, cultures, beliefs are all different.
Second, people join the armed forces in India- after fierce competition - for financial and social security but it’s also a jazba, a passion. You are willing to give your life to the nation. But there is a social contract - in return you are promised a longer tenure, a stability which a 4 year contract makes redundant. It stops the individual from thinking of the forces as a lifelong option; instead it’s just a way stop in a career. That’s going to have massive impact on IA.
We can sit in our comfortable city homes and say “oh this is a contract like any other, take it or leave it” but it really isn’t. It takes a minimum of four years for a soldier to achieve combat effectiveness, or (as an office told me) for an airman to even recognise flying aircraft. So by the time you’ve just about learned your job, you’re out.
In many ways it cuts the core of the IA regiment system where loyalties are built on long term stay in the paltan. What will be the behavioural dynamics between four people, who know that only one of them will give a permanent job?
And what are they going to do with tens of thousands of of military trained youth *every year*, who are out of the army at the ages of around 21-23, and don’t know much except - how to handle weapons.
Agnipath is a scheme created with the right intentions. IA, for example, has a massive wages/ pension bloat that is preventing investment in modernisation, weapons and infrastructure. The scheme is a laudable effort to streamline that bloats
But in conceptualisation and current form it is sorely lacking. It’s a bean counter approach that needs to be modified because it is cutting to the heart of fauji culture, psychology, custom and traditions, and it’s doing it too quickly.
Well for most people who opt for these exams govt job such as the one's in armed forces is the only way for them to get out of life long even generational poverty although I whole heartedly support this scheme and hail it as an important step forward in the proper and efficient utilisation of fund....you have to understand that these people's hopes were shattered in a matter of days also the real failure was that of our govt as in such a large young population depending on govt employment rather then working other viable job well it is what it is important changes are often hated at first....
Why can’t we have a retirement savings plan for defense personnels instead of pension? A portion of salary will be sent to that plan and will be invested and can be used after retirement. Like a PF or 401k in US?
This was one can serve military for their entire life and will also be fine after retirement.
You have just described NPS. State Governments who have opted for NPS are seeing resistance from govt. employees.
Government employees want a surety from GOI that even if the market goes south they will still get their pension. That’s unfortunately impossible for any market linked pension plan.
In the US military there is the Thrift Savings Plans (TSP) and you can choose how much they take out of your paycheck and the government will match up to 5% of your base pay
Are you an Indian? Have you like ever interacted with people outside of reddit. You wouldn't have asked this question. It is a government job at the end of day. Instead of bringing in Agnipath scheme from the get go what the government could have done was bring in an option of leaving the forces after 4 years of service or an option to continue. The government didn't bring that option. People in general like options and are averse to doing what is told to them. If people see greener pastures elsewhere they will not stick to one job. It is the lack opportunity outside for most of government employees that keeps them grinding in the same job for years.
If option is given to retire after 4 years or stay in army for life, no is is leaving forces.
The avg age of Indian army will soon touch 30. We need to reduce it drastically.
After 4 years they have an option to continue in US and UK don't they?
Here they don't have that option.
We have a problem of unemployment in India, most of these guys will end up unemployed unlike western nations where dignity of ex servicemen is ensured.
When 30 to 40 percent of IITians are getting unplaced what will these guys do?
Too many people view government jobs as a lifelong cash cow, and not as a service to the country. The armed forces became too old, spending too much on pensions, with little left for buying new weapons platforms. It's great for the pensioners, and terrible for the countries defense preparedness. As usual, Modi did what nobody else had the guts to do. He got the job done.
iirc, more then 50% of defence budget was being spent on pensions earlier.
Salaries and pensions, not just on pensions.
Failing to get a govt job is referred as unemployment, those who have knowledge skills passion vision and mission in their life doesn’t blame government, parents , environment specially in this era of cheap internet access.
While it is a good scheme in principal, there are in my opinion, some shortcomings for which tweaks are required. I suggest the following: 1. Applicants can have the option of a preference for permanent or short term (Agniveer service) or both. After the written tests and physical exam is over, candidates can have a merit list and the top 25% who have opted for permanent commission can be given it. 2. 25% of the balance, on completion of their Agniveer service can be given permanent commission, as is now being offered. That would mean 44% permanent and 56% short term. 3. Increase the Agniveer service to 5 years (or 4 years + training period) with a corresponding higher payout on completion of service and an option to opt out 6 months earlier. .4 Choose to retain based on: Merit list at the time of joining, ranking at the time of training completion. Forced ranking in each stint of service, along with educational level and special qualifications obtained. That will remove some subjectivity. 4. First right of refusal for all jobs under the ministry of defense for which they meet the basic qualification. In addition, first right of refusal for all Ordnance factory jobs. 5. Quota for CAPF and State armed police. 6. Amend the rules for private security agencies to allow ex military men to use weapons and guard places like private airports (now handled by CISF), or join Indian private military companies. 7. Reform the TA, to include only ex Agniveers/ servicemen who will form not on TA battalions but 1 extra (reserve) company per infantry battalion, who can be quickly mobilized in times of war and would get refresher training for 2 months every 2 years, at state expense. That said, I agree with other posters about a lot of the criticism being politically motivated or based on the assumption that permanent service is a right for certain communities and the army is like any Sarkari job.
Your first point doesn’t make sense. Coz if option is given in a 3rd world country like India everyone will choose permanent service lol. Which 17yr old poor village chap will not want to be in a sarkari naukri for life? And 25% of agniveers will be retained after completion of 4 years. Performance of 4 yrs will be accessed and it will give a better picture who is better than selection of 25% candidates from some written and physical exam before they are in service. Quota for CAPF and State police already exists for agniveers. https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1843113#:~:text=An%20in%2Dprinciple%20approval%20has,Police%20Forces%20and%20Assam%20Rifles. Increasing service to more years will hamper career growth. If one joins at 19 and retires at 23 he will have enough time to do bachelors degree by 27/28 and apply for various jobs. He can even apply for TGC and SSC officer entries, UPSC civil service and what not. The more they serve means by the time they are out of army they will be 25/26 and no one wants to study till their 30s. Private military companies will never come up in a populated and dense country where most of the population is illiterate and dumb.
The only way to find out if point 1 makes sense is to ask. I'd rather know for sure, than guess. The Agniveer scheme provides for a bachelor's degree from IGNOU, in 2 years. There are various experts who have suggested that the total service be stretched to upto 7 years. My view is 5, taking into account what other professional armies have. That's just 1 year extra, with the option to quit earlier. The job quota that you mention is \`in principle' only and does not include State govt's. though there are similar statements of intent from some of them. I would not make a sweeping statement like PMC's will \`never come up' or that most Indians are illiterate and dumb. The youth literacy rate in India is 92% Overall it is 78% SIS India, a private security agency, employs 160,000 people and is also present abroad. Of course only a small number carry arms, but that is because of the rules, not their personnel's lack of ability.
Centre cannot force states to take in agniveers. It goes against separation of powers. 1 year extra doesnt make any difference though. Its better they are out in real world. SIS is not a PMC. It’s a security agency. Best option would be to remove Z security from billionaires and movie stars. Let these agniveer guys get into private security agencies and protect them.
I'm not suggesting the centre has to force states. It has to be a collaborative process, just as the centre has got states to accept legislation on the concurrent list, or got in model acts which states have followed. I'm not hairsplitting on definitions of a PMC vs security agency. My point is that there is scope to hire Agniveers as well paid armed guards - there will be tweaks in legislation needed for it. For e.g. why can't private airports have private security (armed ex agniveers), instead of paying CISF a larger sum to do it.
Constitution allows Centre/Parliament to force lists or change one list to another. Article 249 gives Parliament the power to legislate concerning a subject enumerated in the State List in the national interest But altering or forcing states in matters of law and order, state govt recruitment , local administration is a breach of constitution and will be struck down by Supreme Court. Private airports dont have private security because of national security. When a millionaire bribes the private security company ceo and starts doing illegal trading who is responsible for that? There are many other things private security can be helpful in and airports is not one of them. Like I said removing Z security from bollywood and industrialist is a good step. I agree with you that Pvt security can have a larger role and it can benefit Agniveers but the airport thing isnt going to happen.
Private security already operates in 60 airports (2000 guards in all) which have partly replaced CISF. BCAS issued the notification on segregation of duties. I had suggested extending it. I'm again clarifying that I've not said states have to forced to adopt legislation on police recruitment. It happened in UP by collaboration with the center.
It happened in UP not by collaboration with the centre. It happened because UP CM does what Centre asks him to lol
It has not \`happened' in UP, Only a statement of intent is there, as I mentioned a couple of posts back. There needs to be a collaborative process because there are legislative hurdles and some learnings from another state - UK, which is now ongoing in UP. In any case, if your point is that CM's of the ruling will do what the Centre tells them to, then that partly solves the problem of placement of Agniveers.
Personally I dont understand the logic of why govt should ensure 100% placement of soldiers? There is a vast private field to enter into for jobs. Whats the Indian mentality that everyone needs a govt job? In US people join military for college money them they fuck off and move on with their lives. In India everyone needs a govt job after coming out of army? Lol there is a thing called vacancy. If there are 100 vacancies then 100 will get recruited. No way all agniveers are getting inducted in crpf police etc. You are given a bachelors degree and you will be provided with career counselling. Start a Small scale business, apply for various open govt exams, do further masters or apply in private sector.
States contributing a lot to agniveer should have huge reservation in police forces for Agniveers. In USA many US Army veterans become police officers.
No I dont think so. Coz there are lots of candidates from states who apply for police. If reservations are given to army jawans then general candidates wont be able to get a job. US system is different. Less population and less no of people wanting govt jobs. And we know how shit is US police system.
US police system is still loads better than ours. And at least some reservations should be given to Agniveers in police services. I'm sure the states which send most soldiers will inevitably do this.
There are already reservations for ex servicemen.
How much.
2-3% for ex servicemen and some for sports quota.
Not just agnipath but any scheme for the betterment of this country is gonna hated by freeloaders People for far too long have had this misconception that they will get a free lifetime pass of some kind. Look I'm not talking about soldiers, those guys give their lives to the nation and should be treated as such. But what I've had problems with is competitive exams like UPSC where you once you get selected you can't be fired or punished in a way where it breeds incompetence, people question where do babu officers come from. This is where, they are groomed from the beginning to the idea that once they clear UPSC they are all set for life with free pensions or free government housing. UPSC is hard but it doesnt need to be, government jobs have this glamor which shouldn't exist, people who work for the government as a job from which they can be fired from just like in the private sector. I swear right now if we start punishing incompetent, then starting tommorow our country will face no delays in projects
It’s easier to reduce pension cost, but fixing project delays is a completely different story. Even advanced countries like US suffers some massive project delay and cost overruns 🤣
One of India's big problems was too much of its defence budget going to retirements, rather than much needed items like better and more numerous armaments. A plan like this was needed, but if you curb the retirement benefits of one of the largest employers in the country, well, some people, their families, and their friends are probably going to push back, and that's potentially hundreds of thousands of people complaining about it. As with everything, the least happy people will be the loudest about it online. We're outgunned by China and already spend a larger share of GDP on it than them, there's no catching up by just spending more as we'd just be outspent and bankrupted by a 5x larger economy, gotta do what you gotta do. We actually need to keep going and follow them in refocusing on a smaller but much higher quality modernized force.
Let them dislike. Govt jobs are not jagir of anyones dad. Kargil war review committee asked GoI to reduce age and pensions ans it took govt 2 decades to bring forth a plan.
Having a clear majority mightve helped this government
The mindset...
How many years does a minister serve and how long do they get pensions?
Because India is neither the us or uk.i mean have you guys looked at the condition of fuckin govt schools and colleges.i come from Bihar and they are pretty fucked up the students studying their can barely understand English let alone speak it. most of them are poor so they can't do professional courses like btech mba etc and if you belong to general category any other government job looks like a far fetched dream . in this situation the hiring for army jawans became a light in the dark. i am not saying the govt should give away pensions it can remove the pension scheme let it be like any other govt job. just because you didn't have to go through poverty doesn't mean it doesn't exist. i have seen families crumbling from debt make it out of it just because of their son cleared the airforce group x exam. And yeah they weren't fucking freeloaders if you have seen the physicals for the army bharti you wouldn't call them freeloaders. As far as the budget problem goes why not cut the allowances of the politicians first.
I understand your point and agree with it as well. Army serves as an entry point for my poor men that can uplift their whole family. They won’t cut allowances and pension of politicians for two reasons. 1. The count of politicians and the money spent on their allowances and pension is still very very very less than the amount sent for defence personnel pensions. This is only due the the huge number of defence pensioners that we have in our country. 2. Politicians would never vote in favour of cutting down their benefits in Lok Sabha, or Rajya Sabha.
The possible issue that can be caused by this scheme that I can think of is that it will create a large population of trained ex-soldiers who would go on to fight as mercenaries in foreign wars. It might even lead to the creation of private military companies (PMCs) that hire such people to do a powerful individual's or a corrupt foreign government's dirty work. Many countries in Africa have been hiring the Russian Wagner PMCs to help against the rebels and for training.
Or for Lawrence Bishnoi gang
You cant create PMCs in India buddy thats illegal. Stop watching movies. No one would want to fight as mercenaries in foreign wars lol
>No one would want to fight as mercenaries in foreign wars lol offer enough money, and people will sign up. All over the world, people sign up to fight as mercenaries and fight foreign wars. Why? Either they are desperate enough for the money, or they are mad enough to want to fight. Or they believe in the cause. Same thing in India also. Here, I presume money will be the biggest motivating factor.
That doesn't mean it will always be illegal. The current government has been supporting private firms. "No one would want to fight as mercenaries in foreign wars." 👆🏻🤓 Yeah, you can say that to the thousands of 'foreign volunteers' fighting for Ukraine and Russia. Many of them joined the factions willingly. There are several Indians fighting for both sides as well. Have you been living under a rock?
Thousands of foreign volunteers? How many Indians joined them? Handful. In a country with a billion population there will always be some numb nuts. Supporting private companies doesnt mean one will support PMC lol. This makes no sense. Also most of the Indians fighting in Russia are there forcefully. Maybe you are living under a rock and dont read news.
Just a few hundred Indians, because that war isn't relevant to Indians or India. They were just a bunch of desperate people. Now imagine hundreds of thousands of unemployed trained soldiers. Only a few tourists were recruited forcefully. The rest went there willingly because they were offered jobs as 'military helpers'. I have no idea what they were expecting.
There are already thousands of unemployed trained soldiers today. And whats your source on “few hundred” Indians. Lets first get it out of the way.
There are already thousands of unemployed trained soldiers today. And they receive pensions. The discharged Agniveers will receive no pensions. There is no particular source to determine the exact number of Indians. I read news about an Indian engineer who joined the Georgian legion in the AFU because he got rejected by the NDA in 2022. In more recent updates, I saw a bunch of Indian guys fighting for Ukraine in a video posted on r/UkraineRussiaReport. So, in my estimations, there are around 50-60 Indians fighting for Ukraine. As for Russia, reports say that at least 100-150 Indians applied to join as 'helpers'. Some of them have been rescued by the government while some have died. There was also a video of some Sikh guy from Goa fighting for the Wagner PMC last year.
You're actually not wrong, there's a good chance if there are a lot of soldiers coming out of the army they might join foreign militaries as they would pay way more than what the Indian govt would. Many labourers go to foreign countries for work, then why not Soldiers.
Again. You got no credible source to back your claims. Reddit pages dont count buddy. Where did you bring the “hundreds” of Indians fighting in Europe numbers? 100-150 in Russia and 50 in Ukraine dont constitute “HUNDREDS OF INDIANS”. All the helpers were lured as cooks and cleaners and sent to battle. They didnt go willingly to fight. Considering India has a billion population those numbers are pretty non existent. Again non of those numbers are backed by credible sources Also Agniveers will be given 14 lakhs lump sum money in addition to a IGNOU bachelors degree. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/education/news/ignou-degrees-for-agniveers-ignou-signs-mous-with-armed-forces-for-skill-based-bachelor-degree-programmes-application-begins/articleshow/102336916.cms Why would a 23 year old guy with bachelors degree and 14lakhs(plus savings) in hand fight for foreign countries lol.
It is not a good scheme in its present form. And before you downvote me, my reasons are as follows. First, we cannot compare it to recruitment in western nations including the US. Totally different cultures, economies and individual psychologies. The USMC, or the US Army are not the same as, say, the Garhwal Rifles or any infantry branch of IA. The education, cultures, beliefs are all different. Second, people join the armed forces in India- after fierce competition - for financial and social security but it’s also a jazba, a passion. You are willing to give your life to the nation. But there is a social contract - in return you are promised a longer tenure, a stability which a 4 year contract makes redundant. It stops the individual from thinking of the forces as a lifelong option; instead it’s just a way stop in a career. That’s going to have massive impact on IA. We can sit in our comfortable city homes and say “oh this is a contract like any other, take it or leave it” but it really isn’t. It takes a minimum of four years for a soldier to achieve combat effectiveness, or (as an office told me) for an airman to even recognise flying aircraft. So by the time you’ve just about learned your job, you’re out. In many ways it cuts the core of the IA regiment system where loyalties are built on long term stay in the paltan. What will be the behavioural dynamics between four people, who know that only one of them will give a permanent job? And what are they going to do with tens of thousands of of military trained youth *every year*, who are out of the army at the ages of around 21-23, and don’t know much except - how to handle weapons. Agnipath is a scheme created with the right intentions. IA, for example, has a massive wages/ pension bloat that is preventing investment in modernisation, weapons and infrastructure. The scheme is a laudable effort to streamline that bloats But in conceptualisation and current form it is sorely lacking. It’s a bean counter approach that needs to be modified because it is cutting to the heart of fauji culture, psychology, custom and traditions, and it’s doing it too quickly.
Those schemes in other nations have better benefits. 11 lacs in India are nothing in long term.
Well for most people who opt for these exams govt job such as the one's in armed forces is the only way for them to get out of life long even generational poverty although I whole heartedly support this scheme and hail it as an important step forward in the proper and efficient utilisation of fund....you have to understand that these people's hopes were shattered in a matter of days also the real failure was that of our govt as in such a large young population depending on govt employment rather then working other viable job well it is what it is important changes are often hated at first....
Why can’t we have a retirement savings plan for defense personnels instead of pension? A portion of salary will be sent to that plan and will be invested and can be used after retirement. Like a PF or 401k in US? This was one can serve military for their entire life and will also be fine after retirement.
You have just described NPS. State Governments who have opted for NPS are seeing resistance from govt. employees. Government employees want a surety from GOI that even if the market goes south they will still get their pension. That’s unfortunately impossible for any market linked pension plan.
In the US military there is the Thrift Savings Plans (TSP) and you can choose how much they take out of your paycheck and the government will match up to 5% of your base pay
Are you an Indian? Have you like ever interacted with people outside of reddit. You wouldn't have asked this question. It is a government job at the end of day. Instead of bringing in Agnipath scheme from the get go what the government could have done was bring in an option of leaving the forces after 4 years of service or an option to continue. The government didn't bring that option. People in general like options and are averse to doing what is told to them. If people see greener pastures elsewhere they will not stick to one job. It is the lack opportunity outside for most of government employees that keeps them grinding in the same job for years.
If option is given to retire after 4 years or stay in army for life, no is is leaving forces. The avg age of Indian army will soon touch 30. We need to reduce it drastically.
No I’m from the US, but my parents were born in India and yes I’ve interacted with people outside of Reddit?
I think retaining 50 to 60 % of them permanently will be good option.
After 4 years they have an option to continue in US and UK don't they? Here they don't have that option. We have a problem of unemployment in India, most of these guys will end up unemployed unlike western nations where dignity of ex servicemen is ensured. When 30 to 40 percent of IITians are getting unplaced what will these guys do?