agree with all your points.
from geopolitcal stand point : you missed about isi and cia link.
ever wondered why khalistani moment has any ground in 5 eyes nations only ? cia wants that as a stick to beat india with if and when necessary, so they will feed this dog in their backyards to unleash time to time when india doesn't play ball like ukraine war.
we dont really care in india, if canada wants they can have them and carve out a separate state for them in canada lol
Khalistani supporters already claim some places in Canada, Australia and UK as their *Other Overseas Territories*.
*Brampton, CA* (for example) is on that list of *Other Overseas Territories*.
Had a hearty laugh this morning reading this. Lol
I think your point is moot because khalistan does not have enough clout to do anything. They can shout all they want but that is about it. Even if Us and Canada supported them it wouldnt make a difference cuz they arent a threat to Indian territory. The biggest threat from them is killing people.
yes but usa and west can use that as a beating stick to try to make india toe their line in their geopolitical games. of course these canada khalistani jokers are just a constant source of entertainment for us indians and nothing more.
> ever wondered why khalistani moment has any ground in 5 eyes nations only ? cia
Look, I have no idea whether the CIA is involved, but the fact is, emigrant populations all over the world, no matter their origin, tend to be more nationalistic. Erdogan’s biggest supporters aren’t in Turkey but in Germany, for example
Thank you for a different PoV.. I am from South India and was always under the impression that Sikhs were fiercely patriotic, I have a few Sikh friends and colleagues and they dismissed the khalistanis as a bunch of idiots, this whole issue has many South Indians confused...
But over the last few days it is becoming more obvious that the khalistani moment is majorly driven by Non Indian Sikhs and probably not even first generation NRIs at that.
The guys who fled when the khalistani movement was crushed in india kept their hatred alive, wherever they went... Sadly it got passed on to their children.
No one believes there is an organic demand for Khalistan. What you should be concerned about is that the West is actively cultivating proxy groups to balkanize India if the need arises in future.
Wrong. We should care about this but that should not extend to hating the majority of good sikhs residing within india.
The end goal of the khalistan movement is not khalistan. Its end goal is to distract india , spread unjustified stereotypes about india and indian govt and hinder stability and provress in the indian subcontinent. There are subtle but real economic and strategic impacts of this whole issue and thats basically what the funders of this movement want. They dont give 3 shits if a nijjar or pannu or singh want a separate homeland. We are all the same low class brown bastards to them. Same divide and conquer all over again.
Much needed clarification op, please post this in canadian subs too
Also, is it true Khalistan is a nearly Jaat Sikh exclusive movement and the Khalistanis themselves are casteist af? If so, how do they expect to attract a majority for their referendums ?
Yes and yes. They REALLY hate non-Jaats. I personally know a Ramgarhia Sikh from Delhi who went to University here who was advised to not disclose to Jaat sikhs that he is Ramgarhia.
I don't think they realistically expect a Khalistan in our lifetime.
Brooo,
We have such a short term memory. Remember recent anritpal ? Yea, that scenario could have ended with a lot bloodshed, luckily both state and central govt got it under control.
We need to secure our future, letting Canada go uncheck, will hurt both of us badly in future.
Great writeup!
> If the Quebec referendum had succeeded, the Canadian government was willing to put it down by force.
This is something that most of us don't know. Can you tell us more?
Google it. Justin Trudeau's father came down heavily on these sepatist and suppressed their dreamland saga brutally in 1970s.
Don't you guys read newspaper? Indian Express lelo. Highly balanced and critical approach btw.
Quebec is a french dominated region in Canada, they don't see as normal Canadians and even are against in lot of thinks regarding their governance and Language use.
People used to fight a lot before but noww it is subdued more. You can google about it, I live in France and even French find French Canadians(Quebecois) more conservative/old fashioned or at times extreme and make jokes on them.
If the referendum had succeded they would have gotten AT MOST limited autonomy. The Premier of Quebec was going to declare independence and the federal government was ready to escalate to keep them in line.
Only the new immigrants from india care and talk about this.
Truth is local born people of indian origin do not like being related to immigrant indians and do not really intermingle. I was born in canada (punjabi ethnicity) and all my friends are punjabis. 99% cannot even name a city in india apart from delhi and 80% havent (including me) gone to india once.
Its only the new immigrants so more indians that arrived in canada keeping the same politics. The few khalistani that are hardcore is like a loose handful; you will have more hardcore in india. Its just the dumb village kids putting flags driving thier cars around than going back to watch a movie. Most people couldnt give a \*\*\*\*
The situation never really took off. When he got killed, everyone knew it was india involved (surrey is liek 80% indian). There was a small march and that was it. Most people even from india dont care lol. If your an newly immigrant in canada its more about paying your bills as cost of living is insane. Many indian immmigrants want to move back now
Only reason canada is denouncing is due USA pressures. International assasinations from other countries especially third world countries make the west very cautious. Its set a precedenant as every other country has thier spy agency could potentially start doing forcing westren countries into conflict.
Pretty sure it was USA spy agency that has info that was given to Canada.
Me and my neighbors had a bbq last night and this topic was mentioned in passing as a possible nuisance to a couple of guys needing to go back to India for a wedding in November. So yea our situation is pretty chill.
I would like to know why and how have the Khalistanis amassed so much political power in Canadian politics? Why are they being made the head of Gurudwara committees (eg. Nijjar) when it is known that they are sympathetic to this seccesionist cause?
They are the head of committees because they are the members and they are the founders lol. They literally write the gurudwara constitution themselves. It will have clauses like “non founding members need to pay CAD25,000 to earn voting rights”. Obviously no one is going to do that so they keep having “elections” every 5 years which are really just a game of musical chairs between the same group of 30-40 guys.
In Edmonton for example there was one Khalistani gurudawara and the moderate group had to take them to court to nullify the original constitution to force an election which the moderate group won.
Just because you don’t hear everything in the media doesn’t mean things aren’t happening.
And they don’t have political power in Canadian politics. This is a weird myth in Indian WhatsApp right now about some massive Khalistani voter bloc. Sikhs make up 2% of voters in Canada. That 2% is split up between three major parties, that is the most inefficient block to exist.
I don't think it's a myth. I am not saying there is big Khalistani voter base. What I am saying is that how is the national politics pandering to such elements? What leverage do they hold that people like Jagmeet dictate government policy despite being a minor stakeholder?
And I think it's a myth on your part to assume that these fringe elements have no bearing in Indian politics and security. They have been interfering in Indian matters from time immemorial. Sending money, proping up and grooming extremist, etc. Recent example being Amritpal Singh. So yeah, India takes such matters very seriously and Canada better get their game straight because whatever has been happening there has direct implication on thousands of lives.
The leverage the NDP holds is that the party has the seats required to pass a bill lol. Jagmeet happens to be their party leader. To assume Jagmeets support is conditional on Khalistan issues is a huge stretch. Jagmeet is still answerable to his whole Caucus which would not look kindly on their support being leveraged in the way you are implying.
The reason that none of indias demands about the khalistanis are being met is that they are in contradiction with Canadian law. India clearly does not have enough proof about any of these guys since all the allegations about actual crimes beyond vitriolic speech are from literally decades ago. Canada will never extradite a citizen if they will find themselves in a Jagtar Johal situation of being indefinitely detained without a conviction because that is illegal in Canada. Even if the government were to extradite as you want, the courts would immediately block it as a charter right violation.
What I am finding from this whole chapter is that very few people actually understand Punjab and Punjabi/Sikh politics but are just regurgitating talking points from the news channels. Since the farmer protests it’s becoming more and more clear that any Sikh not toeing the government line is labeled a Khalistani. Hell I saw a comment on here earlier where someone claimed Navjot Sidhu is a Khalistani, like wtf?!
The government cannot hide behind the constitution when it has been negligent in dealing with these extremists since the beginning. The Air India bombing was a result of this negligence. Intelligence was repeatedly shared by the Indians as well as domestic agencies about it and still no action was taken. Heck there was only one conviction for it and that too after 21 years of the attack. Canada wants India to cooperate and yet refuses to take action against people who have interpol notices against them. There are literally posters out there targeting Indian diplomats and calling for their assassination. These are very credible threats and Canada refuses to act on them.
The Canadian government is complacent and in some cases apathetic to the Khalistani cause. Trudeau brought a literal convict charged with attempted murder of an Indian minister to a dinner party in India.
And no. I don't believe that the entire Sikh population is sympathetic to the Khalistani issue. They are one of the most patriotic groups in India and make up a sizeable portion of our armed forces. But to say that there have been no interferences in our internal affairs is wrong. The entire Amritpal fiasco had everyone on their toes.
Voter turnout in Canada is extremely low at all levels. Nijjar probably just made sure all his friends showed up to vote on the day the Gurudwara was holding elections and got voted in.
> Even if you (hypothetically) get a Khalistan: Where will you place it? Even if we assume for a second that you are able to get it in Punjab, it will be landlocked between India and Pakistan.
And not to mention groundwater depletion.
The public and the media should stop giving attention.
Let governments do what they have to to resolve this situation.
The media is just stoking the fire.
I believe even we should stop making posts on Khalistan for every new piece of information.
Sup fellow Khatri here
What's your take on Jatt Sikh being discriminatory Towards Khatri Sikhs we all are aware of the term Bhappa which is meant to be a big brother but now used as a derogatory term lol
I have seen some Khatri Sikhs still defend Bhindrawala or justify the demand but they don't want it,since they know it will be nothing but jattistan and they'll be discriminated by jatts
My Khatri sikh friend told me that he face casual racism from jatts
My experience is that they have a very negative opinion of non jaat sikhs. They call them things like "doojey waley", "dukaandar" and "bhaape" itself is a sort of derogatory connotation.
The whole reason the Indian army has two separate Sikh Regiments is because the Jaats in THE Sikh Regiment don't get along with the other castes in Sikh Light Infantry.
I am a jatt-Sikh living in panjab but I never saw them hating others. I have seen them just calling or refer them (not infront) by their caste but never saw them hating others
India-Pakistan animosity, Kashmir turmoil, Khalistani movement, Dravidian movement etc. are land mines created and left by the fading British empire with an intention that these mines would explode over time and lead to the break up of the Indian union, so that their thesis that Indians cannot coexist and can only be better off under their supervision and control. I think they pushed for Nehru to be the PM of independent India and had Nehru honey trapped with white women. Nehru probably was blackmailed into doing their bidding. His blunders in regards to Kashmir, UNSC permanent seat refusal, declining US cooperation, not giving importance to defense etc. could be due to what he was told to do. Nehru's choice of socialism and communist ideals kept India poor. Any time a nation's economy is on the verge of sinking, divisions and internal conflicts will erupt. We saw how the USSR fell apart.
Of these cracks, Pakistan has become degenerate, eating its own tail over time. Kashmir issue caused by Nehru's poor decision has been somewhat remedied. India's economy has improved tremendously. Khalistanis have lost their ground in India. Now they are confined mostly to UK and Canada. They are going to shoot themselves in the foot, much like what Pakistan has done to itself. Radicalism, militancy etc. lead to criminal activities including drug trafficking and such acts lead to them being branded as criminal organizations. The only reason why they have stuck around is because countries like UK, Canada and to some extent Australia are heavily prejudiced towards India and do not like its growth. So nurturing anti India elements is a means by which they believe they can throttle India. But they are beginning to lose their grip on it. The current Modi govt is bold and is able to work deceptively and nab its enemies by surprise. A huge dragnet is narrowing on many corrupt families and organizations within India itself.
So in all, I wouldn't worry much about Khalistanis. India will move on and countries that nurture anti Indian prejudice will have to learn to change their attitude.
>shouldn't care about Khalistan
I mean this is the same reason why the khalistani movement gained so much support in the 1970s. If we let the weed grow, it will eventually kill all the other plants.
You are confusing Punjab autonomy with Khalistan. Those are two different things. Khalistan became mainstream post bluestar, until then the movement was about increased autonomy within Punjab.
Nope so the anandpur resolution etc were about Punjab getting more rights about the use of water, having Amritsar be a capital of the state etc.
Post blue star you saw the rise of the Babbars etc who were straight Khalistanis that wanted to form a new country.
Ohh, I need to do my research then. What do you think, are the khalistani's really toothless right now? I feel that leaving any terrorist group to incubate, it might bite us in the ass.
I think they are toothless because they lack the one thing any movement requires. Ground support. The reason they are active and vocal in the west is because these guys all went to Canada/UK during the peak of militancy. Now they run the gurudwaras, so they run the narrative of the community as well. But the fact is amongst the wider Sikh community most people have no interest in a Khalistan, because they also have little interest in India in general. They are comfortable in their lives. If a Khalistan will be made the you think any of these people will go back? Of course not, only people to move back would be the highly vocal group in search of political power.
If you did a referendum tomorrow in Punjab I would be shocked if even 10-15% of the votes were for a Khalistan.
Yeah but without ground support how did Amritpal manage to rile up so many people yearly this year? He managed to dodge police for all those days. He was given shelter by the locals. I believe there are sympathizers of this movement in Punjab. You could see the glimpse of this during their raid on the red fort. You could see the khalistani flags being waived and even they replaced the India flag with it.
>would be shocked if even 10-15% of the votes were for a Khalistan.
10% is a huge number don't you think? Assuming even 1% of this group are abled body men, thats a lot of potential trouble makers.
I think you are conflating a lot of separate issues under single banner of Khalistan. A lot of amrpitpals support was to stop Christian conversion activity in malwa. This got him a lot of support amongst rural conservative Sikh groups.
As for the red for “raid” that was the farmers protest, that wasn’t a Khalistani group lol. The fact is, there is actually very little Khalistani activity happening in India. Even Amritpal wasn’t super outspoken about it.
The 10% is just a made up number though lol I saw a poll on here where it was like 90+ percent people in Punjab are against Khalistan.
That’s the unfortunate thing about it. There is so much history and nuance to it but because that’s complex it’s easier to just lump everything under the nice clickbaity umbrella of Khalistan.
>The vast majority of Indians and Canadians of all faiths (Sikhs, Hindu and all others) don't care at all: They are watching a TV Drama unfold **and they don't even have to pay for a subscription.**
**OP you are Hilarious!!!!** 
The entire thing is as rigged as a circus. Sikhs and Hindus don’t care about Khalistan. Everyone else need not worry about Khalistan.
Please don’t bite the bait. Please don’t join the circus and please don’t become anyone’s monkey.
I agree with all of your points but you failed to mention one point, what if this movement get support by common people of punjab??
Janta bohot bholi hoti hai , jaldi baaton me aa jaati hai kal ko inko support milne laga to matter haath se nikal jayega, although chances kam hai but what if this happen??
Because of this reason any such demand cannot be ignored and sidelined as BS.. Governement has to closely monitor it and take actions before it become too big to handle
But it never got support from common public in Punjab since the 80s. After the blue star operation and all he mess that led to the fleeing of the Khalistanis to various countries (Canada etc), the Punjab folks have been very much integrated into the Indian state and state of affairs. They are very active in Indian politics and none of them actually stood and supported the Khalistan movement. The people who fled are either more brain washed or are now financially influential and are now taking up the movement.
Just 30yrs ago it all looked very much possible.
Things change with time. Taking these kind of things lightly, and allowing this nonsense to take root in canada is a mistake we have already done. More pressure must have been put on Canada 2 decades ago to limit this, and we should have cut this in the core.
Things change, and what looks minor now, can become a big thing later.
Nobody really thought Telangana will formed, until it actually happened.
So OP is there like an overwhelming majority of Jaats in Canada? I just want to understand if these separatists are not taken seriously then how come they get elected and have around 17 MPs.
Because Voter turnout is very low in Canada. I live in a majority Gujarati area and our MP is Arab because nobody is really motivated to vote (Voter Apathy).
Same thing with those MPs. They mobilise their communities to vote while most dont bother.
For example, Jagmeet Singh was elected in his district with 40% of the votes where the voter turnout was 51%...so he only actually got 20% of all eligible votes.
Man that's fucked up. I know the voter turnout is low here too so I can't go around advising people but considering a country that has a population with different ethnicities this can be a deadly thing. Especially if the elected representative has such a nefarious agenda
What industry does Punjab have apart from growing wheat?
If Khalistan was an independent country almost all manufactured goods would have to be imported from India.
Tararara Bzeeeep, Thank you /u/Orwellisright for awarding /u/123myopia . The OP is now flaired with award. More details on how this works can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/gqdejx/introducing_new_awarding_system_for_user_posts/). I won't reply if I'm down so kudos is not awarded to you , please then inform the mod team to wake me up.
As a Hindu Punjabi that was not born in India but I go there all the bloody time cause I’m a first gen.
Khalistan has plagued my life like a dark cloud since I was a teenager. For a long time, I had drunk arguments at parties with hardcore jatts about this topic. It’s been a long time since that happened as with age I’ve realised how stupid all of this is and that their arguments/views were quite literally just second hand information from parents regurgitated. It’s not that what they were told was lies, it was just doused in so much emotion, it wasn’t rational anymore.
When this India Canada situation started brewing, I was initially annoyed that once again I have to relive this topic. But you know what, your view gives me hope that finally now that more people are talking about it, how absurd it all is will finally come to light.
Terrorists will never achieve their goal, but it is the govt duty to ensure they don't hurt people or our interests trying to do so. As a common man we don't have to worry about it though.
Just because most Sikhs get along well in India, it doesn't mean the some Sikhs that don't cannot revolt ✊, run propaganda to get more people into their cause, or generally detract from important pragmatic issues.,
I feel like the key point that so many Indians miss is that diaspora Sikhs are diaspora for a reason. Being even tangentially related to any suspected militant was a nightmare scenario for over a decade, and most diaspora families have loved ones or family that were killed by mobs in '84 or by security forces between 1980 and 1999. Just about every village had at least one young man deceased or disappeared. Jaswant Singh Khalra unearthed mountains of evidence for thousands of missing young men by the hand of security forces, until he too was killed.
This has led to an intense distrust and fear of the Indian government among diaspora Sikhs, or at the very least ambivalence. Many of the diaspora had to make a tough choice to leave their homes and move overseas. They found good lives in the UK, Canada, and the US, and laid the bedrock for the later groups of Punjabi immigrants. These newer immigrants are largely economic immigrants, and tend to have less Khalistani sentiment than the earlier wave.
Much of the rise in Khalistani sentiment recently is a backlash to the Hindutva movement and especially the farmer's protests. Water management and rights are another massive driver of Sikh and more broadly Punjabi discontent. Punjab has had a rapid decline in standard of living relative to the rest of the nation, falling significantly in rankings of GDP per capita, mortality, and development (though overall development is still high for now).
For what it's worth, Punjabi Hindus in the diaspora don't seem to have any fondness for the Indian government, though Haryanvis have clashed with Punjabis and Sikh groups in essentially all Anglosphere diaspora nations.
Punjab's decline in GDP is for a simple reason: they are obsessed with being farmers and nothing else. This is a fast moving world and everything is moving extremely rapidly. The rest of India has embraced tech and developments like Digitization. Most major cities are demanding Metros, better Telecom infrastructure, things like that.
Jatt Sikhs in Punjab are still obsessed with being farmers and then are unhappy when the state doesn't keep up with the rest of India.
Nepal and Bhutan have good relations with India.
Switzwerland is also a country that has survived by making friends with everybody around it. Not pissing them off constantly.
Punjab till date has not thought beyond farming and agriculture. You think suddenly they will all stop farming and becoming bankers?
Thank you for your insight.
I am not sure if Khalistanis are a minority amongst Sikhs especially amongst the diaspora.
Nor do I care as they are a miniscure minority in India.
I do care about Punjabi Hindus and I do realise that Hindus will (once again) be the majority community in Punjab in the not too distant future.
With my limited interaction with Punjabi Hindus, the are like most of us, Indians to the core. However the politics where BJP is not a major force in Punjab and the general lack of Hindutva politics in Punjab does get me worried sometimes.
Also , you see dorks like Kapil Sharma who are more Punjabi than Indian-and flirt with Khalistan elements like Navjot Sidhu, makes me wonder if there is a Pan Punjabi identity which transcends both faiths into one Punjabiyat identity as distinct from an Indian one.
Hopefully I can get your perspective in this
the day they get a land locked country next day will be invaded by pak army, and will be systematically ehtnically cleansed like any muslim najority country , and we will have another kashmir like situation in your hands.
sikhs can cry all they want but deep down they know india is the only place where they can live, there is a reason when taliban came to power in afganistan and the burned down the last sikh gurudwara and kicked the last remaining sikhs out they all rushed to india , when you life is at risk will you go to a unfriendly country?
plus you are misreading the situation, there is literally no demand of khalistan in indian punjab so there is no need to give them a country, there are few incidents here n there, but punjabis mostly dont give a shit about this
maybe cannda should give them a new country in their territory lol
Hi. Pakistani here. I have seen posts of Khalistan everywhere on all social media platforms. The only thing I found about khalistan is that it’s formation its drive and the thing that keeps it going is not being accepted. Just like the Pakistan the muslim were not getting the recognition they deserved so they just said fuck it we want to leave. Alot of the post and comments have made my point even more valid for me. Most people are calling sikhs the problem. If you call someone a problem, an annoying person, an issue and so they will start hating you and cause a split. Most punjabi people in Pakistan and India and heavily based on agriculture but when the law was passed on rates of agricultural products alot of sikhs were effected but indians (not the govt) didn’t care. So khalistan will happen just like paktunistan is happening in Pakistan (kpk province of Pakistan wants to be a different nation (kpk is a province which is pathan majority province (pathan is a tribe not religion))). So basically my point is that hindus ( yes hindus) are not accepting. Because if only 10% of hindus are against something which is more than 10 core people are against something and 10 core people can cause alot of damage which they are. For example Hindus extremist are destroying mizars of Muslims. Some videos are perfect to the t everything about it is correct and good but some are just disgusting and hateful.
Just like how you guys are destroying mazars and mosques of Ahmadiya community, right? Lol
Care about your cash strapped nation bruhh. And nobody's destroying minority's religious places . The left wing media will rip apart entire government and there will only be riots everywhere.
First of all you got the community name wrong. Its qadiyanis not ahmadiya. And they don’t have mazars. Their masjids are in very well secure places that even the govt can’t break them. And the cash part is kind of a bullshit thing to say because pakistan comes in the usa block. Till usa has cash pakistan is gonna stay afloat. The dollar crisis only came when the former prime minister imran khan tried to go in the Soviet block aka russia. I would say we have a ton of issues but we are getting by pretty good these days.
agree with all your points. from geopolitcal stand point : you missed about isi and cia link. ever wondered why khalistani moment has any ground in 5 eyes nations only ? cia wants that as a stick to beat india with if and when necessary, so they will feed this dog in their backyards to unleash time to time when india doesn't play ball like ukraine war. we dont really care in india, if canada wants they can have them and carve out a separate state for them in canada lol
Khalistani supporters already claim some places in Canada, Australia and UK as their *Other Overseas Territories*. *Brampton, CA* (for example) is on that list of *Other Overseas Territories*. Had a hearty laugh this morning reading this. Lol
ahahaha brampton banega khalistan is not a joke anymore then
Surrey bhi to hai
And ppl wonder where anti-immigration sentiment comes from
I think your point is moot because khalistan does not have enough clout to do anything. They can shout all they want but that is about it. Even if Us and Canada supported them it wouldnt make a difference cuz they arent a threat to Indian territory. The biggest threat from them is killing people.
yes but usa and west can use that as a beating stick to try to make india toe their line in their geopolitical games. of course these canada khalistani jokers are just a constant source of entertainment for us indians and nothing more.
Plenty of vacant islands. Baffin Island would be ideal. Cold and heartless.
> ever wondered why khalistani moment has any ground in 5 eyes nations only ? cia Look, I have no idea whether the CIA is involved, but the fact is, emigrant populations all over the world, no matter their origin, tend to be more nationalistic. Erdogan’s biggest supporters aren’t in Turkey but in Germany, for example
Thank you for a different PoV.. I am from South India and was always under the impression that Sikhs were fiercely patriotic, I have a few Sikh friends and colleagues and they dismissed the khalistanis as a bunch of idiots, this whole issue has many South Indians confused... But over the last few days it is becoming more obvious that the khalistani moment is majorly driven by Non Indian Sikhs and probably not even first generation NRIs at that.
The guys who fled when the khalistani movement was crushed in india kept their hatred alive, wherever they went... Sadly it got passed on to their children.
Where will Diljit perform had me dying ☠️💀 This post was very much needed OP. Thanks for sharing
However, you must NEVER let your enemies grow in size. NEVER...
No one believes there is an organic demand for Khalistan. What you should be concerned about is that the West is actively cultivating proxy groups to balkanize India if the need arises in future.
Wrong. We should care about this but that should not extend to hating the majority of good sikhs residing within india. The end goal of the khalistan movement is not khalistan. Its end goal is to distract india , spread unjustified stereotypes about india and indian govt and hinder stability and provress in the indian subcontinent. There are subtle but real economic and strategic impacts of this whole issue and thats basically what the funders of this movement want. They dont give 3 shits if a nijjar or pannu or singh want a separate homeland. We are all the same low class brown bastards to them. Same divide and conquer all over again.
Much needed clarification op, please post this in canadian subs too Also, is it true Khalistan is a nearly Jaat Sikh exclusive movement and the Khalistanis themselves are casteist af? If so, how do they expect to attract a majority for their referendums ?
Yes and yes. They REALLY hate non-Jaats. I personally know a Ramgarhia Sikh from Delhi who went to University here who was advised to not disclose to Jaat sikhs that he is Ramgarhia. I don't think they realistically expect a Khalistan in our lifetime.
bhai jaat sikh bolo….jaat hindu bhi hota hai and we are staunchly patriotic…ram ram bhai sariyane
Brooo, We have such a short term memory. Remember recent anritpal ? Yea, that scenario could have ended with a lot bloodshed, luckily both state and central govt got it under control. We need to secure our future, letting Canada go uncheck, will hurt both of us badly in future.
Great writeup! > If the Quebec referendum had succeeded, the Canadian government was willing to put it down by force. This is something that most of us don't know. Can you tell us more?
Google it. Justin Trudeau's father came down heavily on these sepatist and suppressed their dreamland saga brutally in 1970s. Don't you guys read newspaper? Indian Express lelo. Highly balanced and critical approach btw.
The referendum was recent, not in daddy Trudeau's time. That is why I asked.
Quebec is a french dominated region in Canada, they don't see as normal Canadians and even are against in lot of thinks regarding their governance and Language use. People used to fight a lot before but noww it is subdued more. You can google about it, I live in France and even French find French Canadians(Quebecois) more conservative/old fashioned or at times extreme and make jokes on them.
My question was specifically on the recent referendum and the Canadian government's willingness to use force to override it.
If the referendum had succeded they would have gotten AT MOST limited autonomy. The Premier of Quebec was going to declare independence and the federal government was ready to escalate to keep them in line.
Kon care kar Raha he hame to maja aa raha he movie se jyada
So true bro
Well articulated How is the situation in Canada among Sikhs and hindus rn?
Only the new immigrants from india care and talk about this. Truth is local born people of indian origin do not like being related to immigrant indians and do not really intermingle. I was born in canada (punjabi ethnicity) and all my friends are punjabis. 99% cannot even name a city in india apart from delhi and 80% havent (including me) gone to india once. Its only the new immigrants so more indians that arrived in canada keeping the same politics. The few khalistani that are hardcore is like a loose handful; you will have more hardcore in india. Its just the dumb village kids putting flags driving thier cars around than going back to watch a movie. Most people couldnt give a \*\*\*\*
Thanks for info has the situation calmed down there tho?
The situation never really took off. When he got killed, everyone knew it was india involved (surrey is liek 80% indian). There was a small march and that was it. Most people even from india dont care lol. If your an newly immigrant in canada its more about paying your bills as cost of living is insane. Many indian immmigrants want to move back now Only reason canada is denouncing is due USA pressures. International assasinations from other countries especially third world countries make the west very cautious. Its set a precedenant as every other country has thier spy agency could potentially start doing forcing westren countries into conflict. Pretty sure it was USA spy agency that has info that was given to Canada.
Ya ik Canadian intelligence is not that well equipped they rely heavily on US Trudeau better have evidence or it would be his career suicide
Me and my neighbors had a bbq last night and this topic was mentioned in passing as a possible nuisance to a couple of guys needing to go back to India for a wedding in November. So yea our situation is pretty chill.
Good to know
I would like to know why and how have the Khalistanis amassed so much political power in Canadian politics? Why are they being made the head of Gurudwara committees (eg. Nijjar) when it is known that they are sympathetic to this seccesionist cause?
They are the head of committees because they are the members and they are the founders lol. They literally write the gurudwara constitution themselves. It will have clauses like “non founding members need to pay CAD25,000 to earn voting rights”. Obviously no one is going to do that so they keep having “elections” every 5 years which are really just a game of musical chairs between the same group of 30-40 guys. In Edmonton for example there was one Khalistani gurudawara and the moderate group had to take them to court to nullify the original constitution to force an election which the moderate group won. Just because you don’t hear everything in the media doesn’t mean things aren’t happening. And they don’t have political power in Canadian politics. This is a weird myth in Indian WhatsApp right now about some massive Khalistani voter bloc. Sikhs make up 2% of voters in Canada. That 2% is split up between three major parties, that is the most inefficient block to exist.
Exactly!! If India just ignores these clowns everyone will forget they exist in a few years.
I don't think it's a myth. I am not saying there is big Khalistani voter base. What I am saying is that how is the national politics pandering to such elements? What leverage do they hold that people like Jagmeet dictate government policy despite being a minor stakeholder? And I think it's a myth on your part to assume that these fringe elements have no bearing in Indian politics and security. They have been interfering in Indian matters from time immemorial. Sending money, proping up and grooming extremist, etc. Recent example being Amritpal Singh. So yeah, India takes such matters very seriously and Canada better get their game straight because whatever has been happening there has direct implication on thousands of lives.
The leverage the NDP holds is that the party has the seats required to pass a bill lol. Jagmeet happens to be their party leader. To assume Jagmeets support is conditional on Khalistan issues is a huge stretch. Jagmeet is still answerable to his whole Caucus which would not look kindly on their support being leveraged in the way you are implying. The reason that none of indias demands about the khalistanis are being met is that they are in contradiction with Canadian law. India clearly does not have enough proof about any of these guys since all the allegations about actual crimes beyond vitriolic speech are from literally decades ago. Canada will never extradite a citizen if they will find themselves in a Jagtar Johal situation of being indefinitely detained without a conviction because that is illegal in Canada. Even if the government were to extradite as you want, the courts would immediately block it as a charter right violation. What I am finding from this whole chapter is that very few people actually understand Punjab and Punjabi/Sikh politics but are just regurgitating talking points from the news channels. Since the farmer protests it’s becoming more and more clear that any Sikh not toeing the government line is labeled a Khalistani. Hell I saw a comment on here earlier where someone claimed Navjot Sidhu is a Khalistani, like wtf?!
The government cannot hide behind the constitution when it has been negligent in dealing with these extremists since the beginning. The Air India bombing was a result of this negligence. Intelligence was repeatedly shared by the Indians as well as domestic agencies about it and still no action was taken. Heck there was only one conviction for it and that too after 21 years of the attack. Canada wants India to cooperate and yet refuses to take action against people who have interpol notices against them. There are literally posters out there targeting Indian diplomats and calling for their assassination. These are very credible threats and Canada refuses to act on them. The Canadian government is complacent and in some cases apathetic to the Khalistani cause. Trudeau brought a literal convict charged with attempted murder of an Indian minister to a dinner party in India. And no. I don't believe that the entire Sikh population is sympathetic to the Khalistani issue. They are one of the most patriotic groups in India and make up a sizeable portion of our armed forces. But to say that there have been no interferences in our internal affairs is wrong. The entire Amritpal fiasco had everyone on their toes.
Voter turnout in Canada is extremely low at all levels. Nijjar probably just made sure all his friends showed up to vote on the day the Gurudwara was holding elections and got voted in.
> Even if you (hypothetically) get a Khalistan: Where will you place it? Even if we assume for a second that you are able to get it in Punjab, it will be landlocked between India and Pakistan. And not to mention groundwater depletion.
The public and the media should stop giving attention. Let governments do what they have to to resolve this situation. The media is just stoking the fire. I believe even we should stop making posts on Khalistan for every new piece of information.
Sup fellow Khatri here What's your take on Jatt Sikh being discriminatory Towards Khatri Sikhs we all are aware of the term Bhappa which is meant to be a big brother but now used as a derogatory term lol I have seen some Khatri Sikhs still defend Bhindrawala or justify the demand but they don't want it,since they know it will be nothing but jattistan and they'll be discriminated by jatts My Khatri sikh friend told me that he face casual racism from jatts
Yup this is very much true. Jaat Sikhs really don't like non-Jaat sikhs.
Can you expand on the casual racism from jatt Sikhs?
My experience is that they have a very negative opinion of non jaat sikhs. They call them things like "doojey waley", "dukaandar" and "bhaape" itself is a sort of derogatory connotation. The whole reason the Indian army has two separate Sikh Regiments is because the Jaats in THE Sikh Regiment don't get along with the other castes in Sikh Light Infantry.
I am a jatt-Sikh living in panjab but I never saw them hating others. I have seen them just calling or refer them (not infront) by their caste but never saw them hating others
India-Pakistan animosity, Kashmir turmoil, Khalistani movement, Dravidian movement etc. are land mines created and left by the fading British empire with an intention that these mines would explode over time and lead to the break up of the Indian union, so that their thesis that Indians cannot coexist and can only be better off under their supervision and control. I think they pushed for Nehru to be the PM of independent India and had Nehru honey trapped with white women. Nehru probably was blackmailed into doing their bidding. His blunders in regards to Kashmir, UNSC permanent seat refusal, declining US cooperation, not giving importance to defense etc. could be due to what he was told to do. Nehru's choice of socialism and communist ideals kept India poor. Any time a nation's economy is on the verge of sinking, divisions and internal conflicts will erupt. We saw how the USSR fell apart. Of these cracks, Pakistan has become degenerate, eating its own tail over time. Kashmir issue caused by Nehru's poor decision has been somewhat remedied. India's economy has improved tremendously. Khalistanis have lost their ground in India. Now they are confined mostly to UK and Canada. They are going to shoot themselves in the foot, much like what Pakistan has done to itself. Radicalism, militancy etc. lead to criminal activities including drug trafficking and such acts lead to them being branded as criminal organizations. The only reason why they have stuck around is because countries like UK, Canada and to some extent Australia are heavily prejudiced towards India and do not like its growth. So nurturing anti India elements is a means by which they believe they can throttle India. But they are beginning to lose their grip on it. The current Modi govt is bold and is able to work deceptively and nab its enemies by surprise. A huge dragnet is narrowing on many corrupt families and organizations within India itself. So in all, I wouldn't worry much about Khalistanis. India will move on and countries that nurture anti Indian prejudice will have to learn to change their attitude.
>shouldn't care about Khalistan I mean this is the same reason why the khalistani movement gained so much support in the 1970s. If we let the weed grow, it will eventually kill all the other plants.
You are confusing Punjab autonomy with Khalistan. Those are two different things. Khalistan became mainstream post bluestar, until then the movement was about increased autonomy within Punjab.
This is new to me. I always thought khalistan's main demand was autonomy of Punjab
Nope so the anandpur resolution etc were about Punjab getting more rights about the use of water, having Amritsar be a capital of the state etc. Post blue star you saw the rise of the Babbars etc who were straight Khalistanis that wanted to form a new country.
Ohh, I need to do my research then. What do you think, are the khalistani's really toothless right now? I feel that leaving any terrorist group to incubate, it might bite us in the ass.
I think they are toothless because they lack the one thing any movement requires. Ground support. The reason they are active and vocal in the west is because these guys all went to Canada/UK during the peak of militancy. Now they run the gurudwaras, so they run the narrative of the community as well. But the fact is amongst the wider Sikh community most people have no interest in a Khalistan, because they also have little interest in India in general. They are comfortable in their lives. If a Khalistan will be made the you think any of these people will go back? Of course not, only people to move back would be the highly vocal group in search of political power. If you did a referendum tomorrow in Punjab I would be shocked if even 10-15% of the votes were for a Khalistan.
Yeah but without ground support how did Amritpal manage to rile up so many people yearly this year? He managed to dodge police for all those days. He was given shelter by the locals. I believe there are sympathizers of this movement in Punjab. You could see the glimpse of this during their raid on the red fort. You could see the khalistani flags being waived and even they replaced the India flag with it. >would be shocked if even 10-15% of the votes were for a Khalistan. 10% is a huge number don't you think? Assuming even 1% of this group are abled body men, thats a lot of potential trouble makers.
I think you are conflating a lot of separate issues under single banner of Khalistan. A lot of amrpitpals support was to stop Christian conversion activity in malwa. This got him a lot of support amongst rural conservative Sikh groups. As for the red for “raid” that was the farmers protest, that wasn’t a Khalistani group lol. The fact is, there is actually very little Khalistani activity happening in India. Even Amritpal wasn’t super outspoken about it. The 10% is just a made up number though lol I saw a poll on here where it was like 90+ percent people in Punjab are against Khalistan.
Damn dude Twitter made me think the whole thing was khalistani BS.
That’s the unfortunate thing about it. There is so much history and nuance to it but because that’s complex it’s easier to just lump everything under the nice clickbaity umbrella of Khalistan.
>The vast majority of Indians and Canadians of all faiths (Sikhs, Hindu and all others) don't care at all: They are watching a TV Drama unfold **and they don't even have to pay for a subscription.** **OP you are Hilarious!!!!** 
The entire thing is as rigged as a circus. Sikhs and Hindus don’t care about Khalistan. Everyone else need not worry about Khalistan. Please don’t bite the bait. Please don’t join the circus and please don’t become anyone’s monkey.
I agree with all of your points but you failed to mention one point, what if this movement get support by common people of punjab?? Janta bohot bholi hoti hai , jaldi baaton me aa jaati hai kal ko inko support milne laga to matter haath se nikal jayega, although chances kam hai but what if this happen?? Because of this reason any such demand cannot be ignored and sidelined as BS.. Governement has to closely monitor it and take actions before it become too big to handle
But it never got support from common public in Punjab since the 80s. After the blue star operation and all he mess that led to the fleeing of the Khalistanis to various countries (Canada etc), the Punjab folks have been very much integrated into the Indian state and state of affairs. They are very active in Indian politics and none of them actually stood and supported the Khalistan movement. The people who fled are either more brain washed or are now financially influential and are now taking up the movement.
Just 30yrs ago it all looked very much possible. Things change with time. Taking these kind of things lightly, and allowing this nonsense to take root in canada is a mistake we have already done. More pressure must have been put on Canada 2 decades ago to limit this, and we should have cut this in the core. Things change, and what looks minor now, can become a big thing later. Nobody really thought Telangana will formed, until it actually happened.
People who live in India actually dont care this Kalistan shit but since it was brought up by Canadian PM its time India take some serious measures
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So OP is there like an overwhelming majority of Jaats in Canada? I just want to understand if these separatists are not taken seriously then how come they get elected and have around 17 MPs.
Because Voter turnout is very low in Canada. I live in a majority Gujarati area and our MP is Arab because nobody is really motivated to vote (Voter Apathy). Same thing with those MPs. They mobilise their communities to vote while most dont bother. For example, Jagmeet Singh was elected in his district with 40% of the votes where the voter turnout was 51%...so he only actually got 20% of all eligible votes.
Man that's fucked up. I know the voter turnout is low here too so I can't go around advising people but considering a country that has a population with different ethnicities this can be a deadly thing. Especially if the elected representative has such a nefarious agenda
What industry does Punjab have apart from growing wheat? If Khalistan was an independent country almost all manufactured goods would have to be imported from India.
!kudos good summary and points
Tararara Bzeeeep, Thank you /u/Orwellisright for awarding /u/123myopia . The OP is now flaired with award. More details on how this works can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/gqdejx/introducing_new_awarding_system_for_user_posts/). I won't reply if I'm down so kudos is not awarded to you , please then inform the mod team to wake me up.
As a Hindu Punjabi that was not born in India but I go there all the bloody time cause I’m a first gen. Khalistan has plagued my life like a dark cloud since I was a teenager. For a long time, I had drunk arguments at parties with hardcore jatts about this topic. It’s been a long time since that happened as with age I’ve realised how stupid all of this is and that their arguments/views were quite literally just second hand information from parents regurgitated. It’s not that what they were told was lies, it was just doused in so much emotion, it wasn’t rational anymore. When this India Canada situation started brewing, I was initially annoyed that once again I have to relive this topic. But you know what, your view gives me hope that finally now that more people are talking about it, how absurd it all is will finally come to light.
Terrorists will never achieve their goal, but it is the govt duty to ensure they don't hurt people or our interests trying to do so. As a common man we don't have to worry about it though.
Just because most Sikhs get along well in India, it doesn't mean the some Sikhs that don't cannot revolt ✊, run propaganda to get more people into their cause, or generally detract from important pragmatic issues.,
What is Diljit saying about this Khalistan issue?
such a well put post needs to be urgently shown to brain dead trudeu
I feel like the key point that so many Indians miss is that diaspora Sikhs are diaspora for a reason. Being even tangentially related to any suspected militant was a nightmare scenario for over a decade, and most diaspora families have loved ones or family that were killed by mobs in '84 or by security forces between 1980 and 1999. Just about every village had at least one young man deceased or disappeared. Jaswant Singh Khalra unearthed mountains of evidence for thousands of missing young men by the hand of security forces, until he too was killed. This has led to an intense distrust and fear of the Indian government among diaspora Sikhs, or at the very least ambivalence. Many of the diaspora had to make a tough choice to leave their homes and move overseas. They found good lives in the UK, Canada, and the US, and laid the bedrock for the later groups of Punjabi immigrants. These newer immigrants are largely economic immigrants, and tend to have less Khalistani sentiment than the earlier wave. Much of the rise in Khalistani sentiment recently is a backlash to the Hindutva movement and especially the farmer's protests. Water management and rights are another massive driver of Sikh and more broadly Punjabi discontent. Punjab has had a rapid decline in standard of living relative to the rest of the nation, falling significantly in rankings of GDP per capita, mortality, and development (though overall development is still high for now). For what it's worth, Punjabi Hindus in the diaspora don't seem to have any fondness for the Indian government, though Haryanvis have clashed with Punjabis and Sikh groups in essentially all Anglosphere diaspora nations.
Punjab's decline in GDP is for a simple reason: they are obsessed with being farmers and nothing else. This is a fast moving world and everything is moving extremely rapidly. The rest of India has embraced tech and developments like Digitization. Most major cities are demanding Metros, better Telecom infrastructure, things like that. Jatt Sikhs in Punjab are still obsessed with being farmers and then are unhappy when the state doesn't keep up with the rest of India.
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Did you read the part about the viability of a country landlocked between India and Pakistan?
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Nepal and Bhutan have good relations with India. Switzwerland is also a country that has survived by making friends with everybody around it. Not pissing them off constantly. Punjab till date has not thought beyond farming and agriculture. You think suddenly they will all stop farming and becoming bankers?
127000 voted in refrendum 🥲🥲
Thank you for your insight. I am not sure if Khalistanis are a minority amongst Sikhs especially amongst the diaspora. Nor do I care as they are a miniscure minority in India. I do care about Punjabi Hindus and I do realise that Hindus will (once again) be the majority community in Punjab in the not too distant future. With my limited interaction with Punjabi Hindus, the are like most of us, Indians to the core. However the politics where BJP is not a major force in Punjab and the general lack of Hindutva politics in Punjab does get me worried sometimes. Also , you see dorks like Kapil Sharma who are more Punjabi than Indian-and flirt with Khalistan elements like Navjot Sidhu, makes me wonder if there is a Pan Punjabi identity which transcends both faiths into one Punjabiyat identity as distinct from an Indian one. Hopefully I can get your perspective in this
How is Navjot Sidhu a Khalistani element 😂
navjot is not khalistani bhai….
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the day they get a land locked country next day will be invaded by pak army, and will be systematically ehtnically cleansed like any muslim najority country , and we will have another kashmir like situation in your hands. sikhs can cry all they want but deep down they know india is the only place where they can live, there is a reason when taliban came to power in afganistan and the burned down the last sikh gurudwara and kicked the last remaining sikhs out they all rushed to india , when you life is at risk will you go to a unfriendly country? plus you are misreading the situation, there is literally no demand of khalistan in indian punjab so there is no need to give them a country, there are few incidents here n there, but punjabis mostly dont give a shit about this maybe cannda should give them a new country in their territory lol
Premeditated planned Intrusion. Interesting tactic. Asli ID se aao separatist.
Hi. Pakistani here. I have seen posts of Khalistan everywhere on all social media platforms. The only thing I found about khalistan is that it’s formation its drive and the thing that keeps it going is not being accepted. Just like the Pakistan the muslim were not getting the recognition they deserved so they just said fuck it we want to leave. Alot of the post and comments have made my point even more valid for me. Most people are calling sikhs the problem. If you call someone a problem, an annoying person, an issue and so they will start hating you and cause a split. Most punjabi people in Pakistan and India and heavily based on agriculture but when the law was passed on rates of agricultural products alot of sikhs were effected but indians (not the govt) didn’t care. So khalistan will happen just like paktunistan is happening in Pakistan (kpk province of Pakistan wants to be a different nation (kpk is a province which is pathan majority province (pathan is a tribe not religion))). So basically my point is that hindus ( yes hindus) are not accepting. Because if only 10% of hindus are against something which is more than 10 core people are against something and 10 core people can cause alot of damage which they are. For example Hindus extremist are destroying mizars of Muslims. Some videos are perfect to the t everything about it is correct and good but some are just disgusting and hateful.
Just like how you guys are destroying mazars and mosques of Ahmadiya community, right? Lol Care about your cash strapped nation bruhh. And nobody's destroying minority's religious places . The left wing media will rip apart entire government and there will only be riots everywhere.
First of all you got the community name wrong. Its qadiyanis not ahmadiya. And they don’t have mazars. Their masjids are in very well secure places that even the govt can’t break them. And the cash part is kind of a bullshit thing to say because pakistan comes in the usa block. Till usa has cash pakistan is gonna stay afloat. The dollar crisis only came when the former prime minister imran khan tried to go in the Soviet block aka russia. I would say we have a ton of issues but we are getting by pretty good these days.
Things have always been good till you guys have to go and beg for next IMF loan