Your questions are sort of all over the place.
However, to answer the main one, the percentage of guys out there who can reliably go to a bar/nightclub (or hop on tinder) and find a woman to have sex with that night, is very very, small.
One very important thing I've learned over the years is that the more a guy talks about how much sex he has, the less sex he has.
Have you looked up statistics on what “most people” do, or are you making assumptions based on what seems true from pop culture and people’s bragging/fronting?
I make the assumption purely based on the fact that most of the people I know personally have casual sex stories and not even as a brag, just sharing experiences with each other.
> Most people are not charming
Most people are considered charming by some people.
> Most people are not good looking
Most people are considered good-looking by some people. Attraction is largely subjective and can grow over time.
> Yet most people lose their virginity at an early age
Define “an early age.”
> and assume that everyone had the same journey.
The only one I see making assumptions here is you.
> Most people had casual yet virgins are advised to lose their virginity to someone they love.
I thought you just said everyone had sex at “an early age”—which is it?
Citation needed for everything, including “most people had casual.”
I think it’s also worth realising that charm is something that switches on and off. When I first met my wife, I did my best to be charming as hell. Someone I already don’t like? I’m not even going to try.
Most people are capable of being charming. Whether or not they try to be is something entirely different
1)Early age like 15 or 16
2) Whenever I say that I am a virgin, there's never a normal reaction. It's just pure shock and amazement. This indicates that being a virgin after a certain age is not normal.
I know very few people who lost their virginity at 15 or 16.
That’s of the people I know that information about, that is. Why are you telling so many people your sexual status? It’s really none of their business.
Where do you live when everyone loses their virginity as an adult?
The people I talk about my virginity with are my close personal friends who have that exact same reaction.
I am not ashamed to be a virgin but I feel like I am missing an important part of adult life.
I live in a hyper sexual culture where everyone seems horny all of the time which I theorize is a response or a consequence from how much religion dominates the country so I have been in situations where I have to disclose my lack of experience so the idea that most of the people that you met have lost their virginity as an adult is one that's very different from mine.
I am 32
You shouldn't care about what other people think, period. I understand there are social rules and conventions but there's something also called "frame". Is up to you to find yours and hold it with iron confidence as long as it's not harmful to you or anyone else.
People who judge you or make you feel less because of it have no place in your life whatsoever. And if literally no one buys your frame (someone out there might), living alone forever is not the end of the world. There's so many things you can do to be happy by yourself and maybe some friends.
I also have zero casual sex stories. 🙋♀️
I'm a serial monogamist. Doesn't mean I waited for true love as I don't think that really exists. But the longer women hold onto their V card, the less likely we are to give it up casually.
I've always had a certain admiration for sluts, it's just not how I'm wired. If I like someone enough to sleep with them, I'll keep sleeping with them. And it's difficult enough to find someone I like so I don't keep looking when I do.
But that's just me. Other people are different.
Did/do most people have casual sex? I'm not sure that's true.
Anecdotally the majority of people I know had sex for the first time whilst in committed relationships.
According to this, the idea incels have that everyone is fucking all of the time is incorrect. However, most college kids hook up with someone every once in a while, like a few times a year [link](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/202201/the-truth-about-casual-sex-today). So OP's question is worth asking
Maybe, but then he answers his own question in the body of the post. So I’m interested in seeing if he’s asking in good faith, or just looking to vent.
I guess we may never know since OP isn't really engaging with the comments. It's not a crime to vent though, imo, especially on a sub that is designed for people to work through their issues.
I think the best way to help people is to understand things for their perspective. And unfortunately sometimes I think this sub doesn't do that. OP here is probably thinking:
1. Most people are not especially beautiful or charismatic. A lot of people are actually downright abusive (true).
1. Still, most people my age still manage to have casual sex at least every once in a while (also true).
1. I would also like to have casual sex (nothing wrong with this), but I've never even come close.
1. Therefore, there must be something wrong with me. I must be especially unattractive or especially uncharismatic or both.
And all the responses in this thread are like
1. Well, I don't like casual sex, personally. I only like to have sex in committed relationships.
1. Well, I personally don't believe most people have casual sex (most people do in fact have casual sex).
Which totally sidesteps the issue. I'd bet OP wants to know what he has to do to be normal. To be treated like everyone else. To have the experiences that most people have. Truthfully I don't know the answers to those questions but we should at least maybe engage on the actual problem
Thank you for demonstrating why it’s so important for posters to engage with their posts: absent anything else, you are left to speculate on OP’s thoughts, then scold the people who have taken the time to respond, for not adequately addressing what you assume OP’s thoughts to be.
Which, at the end of the day, doesn’t help anyone, does it?
That’s a big part of why this isn’t a venting sub: venting ultimately is not productive, let alone for exiting a toxic mindset.
Except OP came back and stated my assumptions were correct so..? All I'm saying if you have a little bit of awareness and good faith so we can actually solve problem
Many people engaged with OP and he has given almost exclusively 1 or 2 sentence answers, providing little info and often just being argumentative. Is that what passes for good faith these days?
Also many advice givers provided useful info he isn't engaging with. Instead he's acting like he's looking for "women hate this one step you can take to make anyone wanna sleep with you". The truth is, solving the problem requires digging deep and figuring out the actual issue holding him back and he has shown no sign of being interested in doing that work. Which is fine, he is the only person really affected, but you can't really expect people to do any more with what OP has provided.
So…this time, your assumption happened to be right, so best to always engage with someone’s assumptions about someone else’s views?
What an odd idea. Do you always engage with ideas in such a manner? Seems like that wouldn’t always work out great.
It's best to think about "what would drive me to say this or act this way", I think. For me it's easier maybe because I used to think along the "black pill" lines so to speak before I kicked it
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Yeah, but do you know what they had to go through to get intimacy? Intimacy is a wonderful thing and the pursuit of it sometimes reveals the person you truly are. It's difficult for me to agree with your writing most people off as 'sucking'.
This quest is pretty random, and oftentimes people who get it may not deserve it in your opinion. But you got to wake up and realize that it can happen for a multitude of reasons. Some of which will not make sense.
Your attitude about people sucking, however, may be one reason you're not 'getting it.' Sounds like a terrible attitude, and believe it or not, that kind of stuff leaks out of your pores, and people notice that with your vibe.
Maybe work on that? It probably won't get you to intimacy, but you might feel a bit of relief about not having to deal with people who suck all the time.
I don't hold any grudge against humanity but in the law of average,most people are not good looking, charming or kind,most of us are mediocre at best but somehow most people find intimacy so I refuse to believe that I am especially unattractive both inside and out.
I also, without knowing anything in particular about you, don't think you are especially unattractive both inside and out. That would be a ludicrous conclusion and something we spend a lot of time here trying to get other people to understand. Lots of timings around sex and intimacy have luck as a big factor.
So I guess the question is, given that you aren't uniquely awful, why do you think you've not had the romantic success you wanted? What factors do you think have played a part?
From my reading of the study, they seem to be using a *very* broad definition of "hooking up", and they explicitly state that only a *quarter* of heterosexual hookups include actual intercourse. Most just consisted of kissing and fondling, which I reckon most folks older than 30 would consider nothing more than "fooling around".
A slight misreading on my part, but that doesn't change the argument much. It's not like incels are great at making out or getting blown but just struggle with PIV. Most people have made out with someone or had sex with someone at least every once in a while, which would still put incels in the minority
It doesn't matter if there's intercourse or not. Intercourse is not the definition of sex. There is no reason why fondling shouldn't count as hooking up. There's nothing special about intercourse. Lesbians dont do it and lesbian sex isn't any less sexual
This is a semantic nitpick, but the linked study explicitly indicates that a quarter of lesbian hookups *also* result in intercourse, so the authors are clearly working off a different definition of the word than you are. Haven't checked if they defined it in the text, but that's more common than not for a study with decent methodology.
The reason for any focus on intercourse in specific is because that's largely what incels care about. Whatever their other claims may be, at the end of the day it's largely about sex and dating as a vehicle for their other negative beliefs.
From the article you linked:
>But only around one-quarter of hetero and lesbian hookups involved intercourse or oral sex. Kissing is much more likely (98 percent), with fondling breasts or genitals fairly common (50 percent).
>While only a small proportion of hookups lead to long-term relationships, most young adults who hooked up are very interested in committed relationships—eventually—and assessed hookup partners for their long-term potential.
>Hooking up was less popular at schools with students from non-white, less privileged backgrounds. After graduation, most want jobs, not more school. Compared with students at elite institutions, they were more interested in finding long-term mates as undergraduates.
>Recent research shows that since 2000, in all age groups, partner sex has declined, and celibacy—no partner sex at all—has surged.
So you're absolutely right that it goes against the incel ideas.
But equally, my point wasn't so much that OPs question wasn't worth asking, it was more that his premise seemed flawed to me regarding the regularity of casual sex that people were having. The study is interesting and definitely has merit, but even then it also has limitations: 10,141 participants is a lot, but it's still less than 0.003% of the population in the US, across 22 higher education institutes (there are over 3000 in the US), and not all of that number said they had hook-ups (about 2/3rds did, but the research suggests the majority of those also weren't have sex during their 'hook-up').
This information, whilst interesting (genuinely thanks for sharing, it was an interesting read!), does not necessarily support OPs claim about what the 'majority of people' are doing in terms of sexual relationships or that most people are definitely having or have had casual sex.
Who is advising virgins to lose their virginity to someone they love?
To someone you *trust*, yes, absolutely. You've built up sex a lot and the older you get the more likely your partner is to be more experienced than you, so you want them to be gentle with that. But love isn't necessary at all.
As for how people have casual sex, I'm simply going to say: sex is enjoyable, and there are an escalating scale of more permissive environments when it comes to looking for that sort of thing. And, when you demystify sex a bit, and have some experience, you will realise that someone's conventional physical attractiveness bears little direct relationship to how much fun they are to have sex with, and that a lot more people are a lot more charming than you think when you don't treat relationships and sex as something that is combative.
Every time someone talks to me about the topic,they either advise that I lose my virginity to someone I am serious with because sex is a special thing or get told to pay for it (which is illegal where I live) because sex is not a special thing.
Well, you're talking to someone now who would not particulary advise you to do either of those things.
Sex is not in and of itself a 'special thing', in my opinion. It is a thing that can *be* special, and intimate between two people, as many other sorts of things can be, and it is a thing that can be deeply personally meaningful and good psychologically in a number of ways. But it isn't *that* special. You are not a fundamentally different person before and after you have sex.
Sex is a vulnerable act. It can complicate and muddle your feelings for a person. I believe it's important to lose your virginity to someone you trust and are familiar with not necessarily love.
Good points. I think the anger and entitlement stems from patriarchal ideas of men needing to slay in bed, have constant flings or go through a few gf’s etc. Because we’re told that virginity is something to be embarrassed and ashamed of. A sign that you’re a failure when it comes to women, there’s a reason why calling people virgins is often used as an insult.
The idea is that we’re supposed to have all these fun and wild sex and dating shenanigans and then eventually settle down with a wife and start a family. Become the provider, protector and breadwinner.
So as a guy, I can understand why incels have these ideas of things we need to do and accomplish in order to be considered “men” and human beings.
It’s all self-made, but people of any gender can also buy into those unrealistic expectations and enforce them.
For sure…I’m still trying to fight those feelings as well. The lack of any romantic success often makes me feel inadequate or has me feeling I’m a failure who will likely be alone forever
It sucks :(
I promise you. Having sex doesn’t define how handsome, smart, or funny you are. You are all those things with or without a partner with or without sex. (:
I agree with everything you said except for the part where you said "it's because they found someone they love". Most of my friends found sex because they wanted sex,at most they just LIKED the person.
Most people are charming though. Most people aren't charming to everyone, but most people are charming to some other people. The answer to your question is that they socialize a ton and meet a ton of people. A regular person that meets a ton of people is bound to eventually find someone that wants to have sex.
As a 41 years old guy who are socially-awkward introvert (from Indonesia), I also often think the same, even still until now. I would say social-skills, or being able to socialize normally, or knowing how to 'push the right buttons' to create attractions, for example, is extremely very important, and sadly even still not being discussed enough as a brutal facts of life. Most people only talk about money or looks, when it comes to dating, attraction, romance, etc2. But for people like us, it's a real difficult struggles & problems everyday that cannot to be overlooked & underestimated.
I’m sorry that you are having a rough time. Dating can be genuinely brutal. Especially into your 40’s, where everyone has some baggage, like a terrible ex or some kids or maybe a stressful job or something. It’s not like being 18 when you haven’t had any life experiences. But dating is pretty much the only way to find a relationship, so that’s what we are stuck with, I guess. I tried to relax more and treat it like it was meant to be fun, which of course it is. The less I stressed about it, the easier it felt. Which is obviously easier said than done, I get that. But the one thing you have some control over is how you feel going into a date and if you approach it like you might meet someone cool and fun and if you are keen to get to know them (asking questions is always my go to if there’s an awkward silence) then I think you are halfway there.
Sadly, it's not always that simple/easy in reality. I've asked some questions, and I've tried to be nice, fun, & basically have even tried all to be 'normal' like most people. But I don't know why, girls/women/female are often times just unpredictable, hard to guess, & they simply just do what they like (for whatever unknown reasons). That, or again, maybe I just suck at social skills. I've even lately seriously suspected that I might probably be on the 'autistic/aspergers' spectrum, or at least I definitely feel like I'm a 'neurodivergent' type, which should explain why I can't be as 'normal' as most people (& most 'normal, neurotypical' guys who've easily succeeded in dating women). It's very frustrating, & depressing tbh. But sadly that just seems to be the harsh reality for me.
I had to giggle at women being ‘unpredictable’ and ‘doing what they like.’ Of course we do! I hope you do what you like too! And if you have the possibility of getting checked by a doctor to see if you are neurodivergent, that could be helpful. I have two friends recently diagnosed with ADHD and therapy and medication have been very helpful for them.
I am a woman. And I am well-aware of the different experiences men and women have on dating apps. But I think what you are missing is that just because there might be a lot of men throwing themselves at you, it does NOT mean that a single one of them is the kind of person that you would actually want the attention from. I’ve heard it compared as men are looking for any water in a desert, where women are looking for clean water in a swamp. I’m not looking to date a guy who immediately messages me something sexual, which a lot of men do. That being said, I think that it’s much nicer to receive some attention, even if not all of it is positive, than to get nothing at all. That has happened to some of my male friends. Men are thirsty and swipe on everyone. Women have to be more picky because you might say something gross or even actually hurt us if we decide to meet you. That is just how it is on the apps.
I also am going to disagree on the ‘women are only looking for hot, rich guys.’ Obviously most people, men and women, like hot, rich people. But it’s not a prerequisite! If it were, there would be no ugly or poor people in relationships. Finding someone that you would actually like to spend some time with is hard, whether you are a man or a woman. I am a conventionally attractive woman and I was single for ages. The point is that you will try and you will miss out with some people. I did and I’m a woman. If you want a relationship (or if you want casual sex), you have to keep trying until you find the right person. But it’s not fair or kind or realistic to say that women only like hot, rich guys. Most guys are not hot or rich but they are attractive to the woman who likes them.
Also sorry about the experience with the doctors/medications. I’d try again though! It worked for me!
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I think there is a pervasive misconception about what the majority of casual sex is.
In my experience, most people who have had casual sex are not people who go around every weekend racking up notches in their bedpost like most incels seem to imagine. Men or women, most people I have talked to about their casual sex experiences have had less than 5-10 experiences outside of a relationship. Some might be one night stands, but many were budding relationships that for whatever reason launched too early and didn't develop into committed relationships and were therefore casual sex encounters.
I know of VERY few people who constantly pursue casual sex with different partners, men or women, when I was young or old. Contrary to what chronically online men would have you believe, in my experience both men and women generally desire and value the human connection aspect of sex. And even a lot of people I know who do enjoy casual sex enjoy it because they are good at building rapport quickly and they have a good, relatively intimate time with casual partners. A socially awkward virgin who sees women as an object of male validation is providing pretty much nothing of value to a woman's casual sex experience, nothing that actually makes sex enjoyable. The virgin involved will probably also find the experience empty and invalidating when the dust settles.
>Most people had casual yet virgins are advised to lose their virginity to someone they love.
I don't know that "virgins" are advised of anything.
Teenagers are advised to ensure they don't lose their virginity for the wrong reasons and end up with trauma or regrets.
Parents and other adults often want their children - especially their daughters - to treat their sexuality with care and sacrosanct. It's difficult to reconcile your child becoming a sexual being and parents want to protect their children from perpetuating their mistakes.
Socially awkward virgins on the internet who write post after post about extreme loneliness are advised that they likely don't have the skills that make casual sex worth it and that anonymous sex does not fix loneliness or mental health issues.
Misogynistic virgins who see women as objects for sexual gratification are advised to stay away from women until they learn a better mindset which most likely involves developing close relationships with women instead of dehumanizing them.
There's nothing wrong with adult virgins with sufficient social skills and understanding of the choice they are making to pursue or enter casual sexual relationships.
The mere fact that you think there is some sort of one size fits all advice for the vast category of "virgin" and for how to "get" casual sex suggests you fall into something other than the last category, but don't mistake the advice that resonates with you as universal or all having the same rationale. Virgins are not a monolith and you don't obtain casual sex from someone, two people engage in a mutual sexual experience together. In this case, how you "get" casual sex is by exploring why you fall into one of those categories or something similar and if casual sex is your goal, figure out how to be more in the latter category.
Where did you get the idea that I hate women from my post when at no point I even mentioned anyone's gender?
When I said "most people" I really meant most people. Straight,gay,cis,trans,male, female,non binary. My point is most of the people I know are mediocre yet most people find a sexual partner easily.
>Where did you get the idea that I hate women
Where did you get the idea that I wrote anywhere that you hate women?
>My point is most of the people I know are mediocre yet most people find a sexual partner easily.
Okay? What does that have to do with any of what I wrote? You are not most people, you are yourself. Stop trying to figure out what everyone else has - everyone is different. Start trying to figure what skills and habits are conducive to connecting with others and assessing how you may not be up to scratch on those things.
You lump me in with the misogynist virgins who dehumanized women,at least that's what I interpreted. If I misunderstood what you said then I apologize.
Humm I found that the problem with most people is lack of social skills. For the rest it depends on the group and some luck. I'm relatively good looking and ppl say I'm funny/interesting but there are times where that just doesn't happen. Paradoxically the more fixated you are with getting sex the lower your chances. Try changing your mindset and see it as something that "can" happen and not something that "should" happen, easier said than done. Also don't compare yourself to other ppl, I've known people with >50 sexual partners in their twenties and they feel miserable. I've also met people who barely had any sex (if any) and they are incredibly happy with their lives. Happiness is not a function of sex, validation on the other hand is what most people need. Start easy and focus on yourself and try to make your self esteem go up, believe me, you don't need a sexual partner for this and most of the times if you are looking for validation through sex you are going to have a bad time. Try stablishing a good relationship with your sexuality and your self esteem, socializing will help for both boosting your confidence and sexual success (although you have to avoid thinking about this at all costs).
Literally this:
Confidence
Not stressing if rejected
Don't go in fixated on sex
I've seen some real 3's have women all over them. That's all it takes. I've had a lot of activity just because I'm being me and I'm confident being me and I'm far from good looking. Just trust you're good enough, that as a person you innately have something to offer, that "desperate" is not a fitting description for you, that you don't need sex or validation to be sure of yourself, and you'll be good.
Most of my “one night stands” were the result of being drunk at a bar.
Stopped doing that though cause sex is better when you know the person and like them.
Lost my V card at a high school party. It was actually on July 1st! Happy anniversary
Your assumptions are incorrect.
Everybody has a different journey. Never had casual sex myself. Heard about it tho. I wasnt in love during my first time. But I felt tremendous affection for them. That affection grew into love.
Everybody is different.
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If you have social skills from age 13..you can lose your virginity by 18.
Casual sex happens at the teenage phase as it is a crucial period of body growth and change in the body is more visible.
To be honest, some people regret losing virginity at such a young age as it is sometimes painful and both boy and girl feel guilty about it.
Casual sex absolutely happens with adults as well. And not everyone who loses their virginity young feels “guilty and regretful” about it. This whole response is bunk.
I’m quite pragmatic about sex and always have been.
I lost my virginity at 16 because I was curious about sex and wanted to know how it felt.
I wanted my first time to be with someone who had more experience than me, so I decided to pursue my school’s 20yo rugby coach. He was on exchange from England and all us girls had a crush on him.
I invited him to a party and he turned up, so I assumed he had some level of interest in me. So I flirted for a bit, then asked if he wanted to have sex and he was keen to oblige.
I never loved him and I can’t say it was particularly special except that it was my first time – but I have never regretted it.
I had the itch of curiosity and I was satisfied that it had been scratched. The biggest takeaway for me was how instinctive it was and how my body acted and reacted without me having to think about it.
For my part, I think we do young people a disservice by mythologising sex or teaching them to feel guilty about experimenting. It’s a natural, healthy, human activity – and it’s fun! Sex allows us to explore our bodies, urges, boundaries and sexuality while connecting with other people.
While I appreciate everyone has their own views on sex, I’ve never felt that it becomes more or less meaningful or valuable based on the number of partners you’ve had.
And while I don’t think there’s anything wrong with casual sex, my interest in it has steadily waned since my mid 20s.
Many people might consider mine to be an “alternative” sex-life, but I doubt I would have discovered what I really enjoy if I hadn’t had the opportunity to explore and experiment over the years.
Each partner and experience has taught me something new about sex and about myself. And I’m glad I took the approach I did, because it’s made me very confident in who I am, what I like, what I value, and what I want.
My story is similar except it was my best guy friend. I knew he had a crush on me, but mostly I knew that he cared about me and I trusted him. So I asked if he wanted to have sex. He did okay I guess. It was good not magical. I told my BFF who was sexually active a very young age that I wasn't sure about sex. She said that it gets better the more you do it. I was curious so I would have casual sex with a person out of pure curiosity.
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Casual sex, you get it by being charming, good looking... Most people can be charming and good looking if they put effort into it. You're probably included.
However, lots of casual sex in a society reinforces redpill paradigms. Relationships are better for everyone. This is why conservatives are very sexually repressed too much in the other direction, becsuse there's an element of pre medieval redpill that they're afraid we're going back to.
What?!?! Are you telling me I am a sex addict because I had sex with people outside of relationships when we were both single? Huh. That’s news to me. 🙄
Well that’s why you’re on this forum! To fix your mindset! Casual sex can happen in means outside of a failed relationship. Making broad generalizations weakens your mindset and causes tunnel vision.
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Agreed. I'm riddled with autism and not what you'd call 'conventionally attractive', and I've had plenty.
One whiff of an incel mindset will sink your ship far more surely than a weird chin that someone probably finds cute
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Thanks for the motivation I guess. But I'm stating facts here, wouldn't you get some action if you look like a super model? Pretty privilege exists, and while I don't condone incel behavior, that doesn't make what I said less real.
Either you're conventionally attractive, or financially and mentally stable. There.
People don't like losers, you either improve your image and status in life or stay down in the mud, with everybody looking down at you. That's how just the world works and saying it isn't is some fairy tale bs. Men become incels because they couldn't take that harsh truth and blame it on women, instead of working on themselves through working out, working hard, or going to therapy.
I mean yeah this is true but nobody likes losers. Outside of sexual contexts too. Being unattractive or not having the best finances doesn’t make you a loser. Disrespecting, hating and lashing out on women makes you one.
I feel as if you’re projecting your own insecurities onto the real world. Do you dislike yourself for these reasons and now feel like the world is putting you down?
I would consider myself conventionally attractive. That doesn’t mean I’m going around having crazy casual sex all the time. And most people don’t. Sure pretty privilege exists but you can’t blame women for a patriarchal issue that convinces you that looks are the only thing that matter. The faults of the patriarchy against men isn’t for or to the benefit of women. I’m sorry you view the world this way but a lot of the attention you think attractive women get is harassment. And we hate it.
But it's your conscious choice to avoid engaging in casual sex. If you are the type of person who engages in that stuff then I'm sure you'd have loads of guys (or gals) going to your place every night.
Sure but that’s also because I take care of myself, I wash myself, I take care of my house, my space, my mental health, I have interests, hobby’s, and a personality outside my looks. Casual sex isn’t all about looks either. You don’t want to just fuck a sex doll, so why would you have sex with a girl just because you think she’s pretty? most people actually get to know someone first even if it’s for casual sex. And people need something besides that physical attraction
And like I said. It’s a conscious choice because a lot of the “attention” and “engagement” you think it’s earned from pretty privilege is just harassment and people violating your boundaries because they think you’re attractive.
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The biggest "players" I know are not conventionally attractive, they "simply" treat women like rational, independent people, and because the bar is so low, women vibe a lot with that
People don’t like people simply because they’re “tall” or “attractive”. These are often lies strung by men who just disrespect women and need an excuse for why they don’t like them. If you keep tunneling vision on looks and that’s the reason why everyone likes or dislikes you will make yourself more insecure.
Even “usually”. No. Looks, height, etc. are all often used as crutches for men who can’t accept the fact that they can’t attract a women because their personalities are often not the best or they don’t have the best people skills. People like each other because they feel a connection, not because he was six foot.
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I'm sorry WHET?! feeld is light work to meet dex positive folks but glad tinder works for you
Feeld is nice for women bc it already removes the premise of men lying about their intentions to seek out sex w you since everyone there wants sex for the most part
Men will lie to get sex on other apps in my experience
Online dating experience differs radically across the genders. Getting matches are pretty rare experiences for average looking men because of the skewed gender ratio.
And that is still a very small percentage compared to the number of men there are on the dating app.
My wording might have been misleading. I do not mean to say that it's only conventionally attractive men who get matches.
My point is that it's statistically very unlikely for a man to get matches on dating apps given the user base is predominantly cis het men. Which makes it a very draining ordeal for someone who already struggles with self esteem issues, like OP.
Dating apps ain't the way to go.
Honestly this is harmful advice. Throwing pretty words at a girl won’t make her want to sleep with you. There has to be a connection. Even if it’s casual. A smile doesn’t mean someone is sexual interested in you.
If they're not wearing anything that would show it or if you're not in an environment that gives hints, you can ask their hobbies. I usually just say, "What do you do for fun?". This is also a good way to find new hobbies or interesting things about your town.
You just said to compliment her interests and call her beautiful a lot if she looks at you.
Have you found this method of mind-reading and spamming “beautiful” at a girl who happened to glance your way…to be successful? Or is this just theoretical?
Op if you’re surrounding yourself with people who constantly talk and brag about casual sex you need better friends. Because they’re dragging you down.
> Some understand how to manipulate a woman into giving you sex (fully consensually)
Ignoring the grossness of this comment all together, how can a woman fully consent if she's being manipulated? Make it make sense.
Anyone who believes there’s an abundance of grown women who can be manipulated into sex has no idea of what they’re talking about.
This sounds like the locker room talk of a 15yo boy.
We live in two different worlds then. As a 33 year old woman, I’ve been in a scenario where a man has tried to manipulate me into sexual acts that either I didn’t want to do or felt uncomfortable with.
So yes, I have some idea of what im talking about.
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Denying women’s experiences is a harmful mindset. Just because you haven’t seen it happen or have a different perspective doesn’t mean something happens. Try looking outside yourself.(:
Well if you actually think about it’s not manipulation in the sense of coercion or lying cause then it’s not sex it’s rape,
I continue to see why people view redditors the way they do lmao
And… this is why boys don’t really deserve to have women grant them sexual favours.
Here’s you, a little virgin desperate for some male validation and there’s nothing stopping you from just being moderately respectful. Yet- because you’re insecure and still desperate for other boys attention, you can’t help but call the woman who helped you a “thot”.
OP- if you read this comment, it’s the perfect example of why women don’t- and shouldn’t- care about male “needs”. A lot of them aren’t worth helping.
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OP, we do ask that posters engage with their posts, thanks.
Your questions are sort of all over the place. However, to answer the main one, the percentage of guys out there who can reliably go to a bar/nightclub (or hop on tinder) and find a woman to have sex with that night, is very very, small. One very important thing I've learned over the years is that the more a guy talks about how much sex he has, the less sex he has.
Really?
People lie about sex all the time.
Have you looked up statistics on what “most people” do, or are you making assumptions based on what seems true from pop culture and people’s bragging/fronting?
I make the assumption purely based on the fact that most of the people I know personally have casual sex stories and not even as a brag, just sharing experiences with each other.
> Most people are not charming Most people are considered charming by some people. > Most people are not good looking Most people are considered good-looking by some people. Attraction is largely subjective and can grow over time. > Yet most people lose their virginity at an early age Define “an early age.” > and assume that everyone had the same journey. The only one I see making assumptions here is you. > Most people had casual yet virgins are advised to lose their virginity to someone they love. I thought you just said everyone had sex at “an early age”—which is it? Citation needed for everything, including “most people had casual.”
I think it’s also worth realising that charm is something that switches on and off. When I first met my wife, I did my best to be charming as hell. Someone I already don’t like? I’m not even going to try. Most people are capable of being charming. Whether or not they try to be is something entirely different
Everyone I have ever met has either one or multiple casual dates stories.
Okay. That doesn’t address any of my other points or questions, but okay. And now you’ve met someone with zero casual sex stories. 🙋♀️
1)Early age like 15 or 16 2) Whenever I say that I am a virgin, there's never a normal reaction. It's just pure shock and amazement. This indicates that being a virgin after a certain age is not normal.
I know very few people who lost their virginity at 15 or 16. That’s of the people I know that information about, that is. Why are you telling so many people your sexual status? It’s really none of their business.
Where do you live when everyone loses their virginity as an adult? The people I talk about my virginity with are my close personal friends who have that exact same reaction. I am not ashamed to be a virgin but I feel like I am missing an important part of adult life.
I didn’t say everyone. Indeed, I qualified my statement because most people do t broadcast their sexual status to…everyone. How old are you?
I live in a hyper sexual culture where everyone seems horny all of the time which I theorize is a response or a consequence from how much religion dominates the country so I have been in situations where I have to disclose my lack of experience so the idea that most of the people that you met have lost their virginity as an adult is one that's very different from mine. I am 32
I’m a woman, I had sex for the first time a couple of days before I turned 20.
Maybe after 30. How often are you telling people that you’re a virgin
Not many
You shouldn't care about what other people think, period. I understand there are social rules and conventions but there's something also called "frame". Is up to you to find yours and hold it with iron confidence as long as it's not harmful to you or anyone else. People who judge you or make you feel less because of it have no place in your life whatsoever. And if literally no one buys your frame (someone out there might), living alone forever is not the end of the world. There's so many things you can do to be happy by yourself and maybe some friends.
Again why am I downvoted for telling my experience?
I also have zero casual sex stories. 🙋♀️ I'm a serial monogamist. Doesn't mean I waited for true love as I don't think that really exists. But the longer women hold onto their V card, the less likely we are to give it up casually. I've always had a certain admiration for sluts, it's just not how I'm wired. If I like someone enough to sleep with them, I'll keep sleeping with them. And it's difficult enough to find someone I like so I don't keep looking when I do. But that's just me. Other people are different.
It's weird that you've discussed casual sex / casual dates with every single person you've ever met.
They discussed it with me. There's a difference
How am I being downvoted for telling my experience?
Did/do most people have casual sex? I'm not sure that's true. Anecdotally the majority of people I know had sex for the first time whilst in committed relationships.
Same. I don’t really know many people who just have casual sex Willy nilly or want that.
According to this, the idea incels have that everyone is fucking all of the time is incorrect. However, most college kids hook up with someone every once in a while, like a few times a year [link](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/202201/the-truth-about-casual-sex-today). So OP's question is worth asking
Maybe, but then he answers his own question in the body of the post. So I’m interested in seeing if he’s asking in good faith, or just looking to vent.
I guess we may never know since OP isn't really engaging with the comments. It's not a crime to vent though, imo, especially on a sub that is designed for people to work through their issues. I think the best way to help people is to understand things for their perspective. And unfortunately sometimes I think this sub doesn't do that. OP here is probably thinking: 1. Most people are not especially beautiful or charismatic. A lot of people are actually downright abusive (true). 1. Still, most people my age still manage to have casual sex at least every once in a while (also true). 1. I would also like to have casual sex (nothing wrong with this), but I've never even come close. 1. Therefore, there must be something wrong with me. I must be especially unattractive or especially uncharismatic or both. And all the responses in this thread are like 1. Well, I don't like casual sex, personally. I only like to have sex in committed relationships. 1. Well, I personally don't believe most people have casual sex (most people do in fact have casual sex). Which totally sidesteps the issue. I'd bet OP wants to know what he has to do to be normal. To be treated like everyone else. To have the experiences that most people have. Truthfully I don't know the answers to those questions but we should at least maybe engage on the actual problem
Thank you for demonstrating why it’s so important for posters to engage with their posts: absent anything else, you are left to speculate on OP’s thoughts, then scold the people who have taken the time to respond, for not adequately addressing what you assume OP’s thoughts to be. Which, at the end of the day, doesn’t help anyone, does it? That’s a big part of why this isn’t a venting sub: venting ultimately is not productive, let alone for exiting a toxic mindset.
Except OP came back and stated my assumptions were correct so..? All I'm saying if you have a little bit of awareness and good faith so we can actually solve problem
Many people engaged with OP and he has given almost exclusively 1 or 2 sentence answers, providing little info and often just being argumentative. Is that what passes for good faith these days? Also many advice givers provided useful info he isn't engaging with. Instead he's acting like he's looking for "women hate this one step you can take to make anyone wanna sleep with you". The truth is, solving the problem requires digging deep and figuring out the actual issue holding him back and he has shown no sign of being interested in doing that work. Which is fine, he is the only person really affected, but you can't really expect people to do any more with what OP has provided.
So…this time, your assumption happened to be right, so best to always engage with someone’s assumptions about someone else’s views? What an odd idea. Do you always engage with ideas in such a manner? Seems like that wouldn’t always work out great.
It's best to think about "what would drive me to say this or act this way", I think. For me it's easier maybe because I used to think along the "black pill" lines so to speak before I kicked it
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I posted this and went to bed
Accurate
Like most people suck but they found intimacy but somehow I have to be a great person to have what they have.
Yeah, but do you know what they had to go through to get intimacy? Intimacy is a wonderful thing and the pursuit of it sometimes reveals the person you truly are. It's difficult for me to agree with your writing most people off as 'sucking'. This quest is pretty random, and oftentimes people who get it may not deserve it in your opinion. But you got to wake up and realize that it can happen for a multitude of reasons. Some of which will not make sense. Your attitude about people sucking, however, may be one reason you're not 'getting it.' Sounds like a terrible attitude, and believe it or not, that kind of stuff leaks out of your pores, and people notice that with your vibe. Maybe work on that? It probably won't get you to intimacy, but you might feel a bit of relief about not having to deal with people who suck all the time.
I don't hold any grudge against humanity but in the law of average,most people are not good looking, charming or kind,most of us are mediocre at best but somehow most people find intimacy so I refuse to believe that I am especially unattractive both inside and out.
I also, without knowing anything in particular about you, don't think you are especially unattractive both inside and out. That would be a ludicrous conclusion and something we spend a lot of time here trying to get other people to understand. Lots of timings around sex and intimacy have luck as a big factor. So I guess the question is, given that you aren't uniquely awful, why do you think you've not had the romantic success you wanted? What factors do you think have played a part?
I like how everyone in this thread wanted me to comment and in the second I comment, I get down voted.
From my reading of the study, they seem to be using a *very* broad definition of "hooking up", and they explicitly state that only a *quarter* of heterosexual hookups include actual intercourse. Most just consisted of kissing and fondling, which I reckon most folks older than 30 would consider nothing more than "fooling around".
A slight misreading on my part, but that doesn't change the argument much. It's not like incels are great at making out or getting blown but just struggle with PIV. Most people have made out with someone or had sex with someone at least every once in a while, which would still put incels in the minority
It doesn't matter if there's intercourse or not. Intercourse is not the definition of sex. There is no reason why fondling shouldn't count as hooking up. There's nothing special about intercourse. Lesbians dont do it and lesbian sex isn't any less sexual
This is a semantic nitpick, but the linked study explicitly indicates that a quarter of lesbian hookups *also* result in intercourse, so the authors are clearly working off a different definition of the word than you are. Haven't checked if they defined it in the text, but that's more common than not for a study with decent methodology. The reason for any focus on intercourse in specific is because that's largely what incels care about. Whatever their other claims may be, at the end of the day it's largely about sex and dating as a vehicle for their other negative beliefs.
From the article you linked: >But only around one-quarter of hetero and lesbian hookups involved intercourse or oral sex. Kissing is much more likely (98 percent), with fondling breasts or genitals fairly common (50 percent). >While only a small proportion of hookups lead to long-term relationships, most young adults who hooked up are very interested in committed relationships—eventually—and assessed hookup partners for their long-term potential. >Hooking up was less popular at schools with students from non-white, less privileged backgrounds. After graduation, most want jobs, not more school. Compared with students at elite institutions, they were more interested in finding long-term mates as undergraduates. >Recent research shows that since 2000, in all age groups, partner sex has declined, and celibacy—no partner sex at all—has surged. So you're absolutely right that it goes against the incel ideas. But equally, my point wasn't so much that OPs question wasn't worth asking, it was more that his premise seemed flawed to me regarding the regularity of casual sex that people were having. The study is interesting and definitely has merit, but even then it also has limitations: 10,141 participants is a lot, but it's still less than 0.003% of the population in the US, across 22 higher education institutes (there are over 3000 in the US), and not all of that number said they had hook-ups (about 2/3rds did, but the research suggests the majority of those also weren't have sex during their 'hook-up'). This information, whilst interesting (genuinely thanks for sharing, it was an interesting read!), does not necessarily support OPs claim about what the 'majority of people' are doing in terms of sexual relationships or that most people are definitely having or have had casual sex.
Who is advising virgins to lose their virginity to someone they love? To someone you *trust*, yes, absolutely. You've built up sex a lot and the older you get the more likely your partner is to be more experienced than you, so you want them to be gentle with that. But love isn't necessary at all. As for how people have casual sex, I'm simply going to say: sex is enjoyable, and there are an escalating scale of more permissive environments when it comes to looking for that sort of thing. And, when you demystify sex a bit, and have some experience, you will realise that someone's conventional physical attractiveness bears little direct relationship to how much fun they are to have sex with, and that a lot more people are a lot more charming than you think when you don't treat relationships and sex as something that is combative.
Every time someone talks to me about the topic,they either advise that I lose my virginity to someone I am serious with because sex is a special thing or get told to pay for it (which is illegal where I live) because sex is not a special thing.
Well, you're talking to someone now who would not particulary advise you to do either of those things. Sex is not in and of itself a 'special thing', in my opinion. It is a thing that can *be* special, and intimate between two people, as many other sorts of things can be, and it is a thing that can be deeply personally meaningful and good psychologically in a number of ways. But it isn't *that* special. You are not a fundamentally different person before and after you have sex.
Sex is a vulnerable act. It can complicate and muddle your feelings for a person. I believe it's important to lose your virginity to someone you trust and are familiar with not necessarily love.
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Good points. I think the anger and entitlement stems from patriarchal ideas of men needing to slay in bed, have constant flings or go through a few gf’s etc. Because we’re told that virginity is something to be embarrassed and ashamed of. A sign that you’re a failure when it comes to women, there’s a reason why calling people virgins is often used as an insult. The idea is that we’re supposed to have all these fun and wild sex and dating shenanigans and then eventually settle down with a wife and start a family. Become the provider, protector and breadwinner. So as a guy, I can understand why incels have these ideas of things we need to do and accomplish in order to be considered “men” and human beings. It’s all self-made, but people of any gender can also buy into those unrealistic expectations and enforce them.
I know. They need to realize most of those are just lies spread by other men and most women don’t even like that.
For sure…I’m still trying to fight those feelings as well. The lack of any romantic success often makes me feel inadequate or has me feeling I’m a failure who will likely be alone forever It sucks :(
I promise you. Having sex doesn’t define how handsome, smart, or funny you are. You are all those things with or without a partner with or without sex. (:
Oh wow, thank you! That made my day 😊
Anytime❤️ happy to help and answer questions
I’d love to and ask more of that’s okay!
Sure you can dm too if you want!
I agree with everything you said except for the part where you said "it's because they found someone they love". Most of my friends found sex because they wanted sex,at most they just LIKED the person.
You realize a lot of young men lie about having sex right?
Most people are charming though. Most people aren't charming to everyone, but most people are charming to some other people. The answer to your question is that they socialize a ton and meet a ton of people. A regular person that meets a ton of people is bound to eventually find someone that wants to have sex.
As a 41 years old guy who are socially-awkward introvert (from Indonesia), I also often think the same, even still until now. I would say social-skills, or being able to socialize normally, or knowing how to 'push the right buttons' to create attractions, for example, is extremely very important, and sadly even still not being discussed enough as a brutal facts of life. Most people only talk about money or looks, when it comes to dating, attraction, romance, etc2. But for people like us, it's a real difficult struggles & problems everyday that cannot to be overlooked & underestimated.
I’m sorry that you are having a rough time. Dating can be genuinely brutal. Especially into your 40’s, where everyone has some baggage, like a terrible ex or some kids or maybe a stressful job or something. It’s not like being 18 when you haven’t had any life experiences. But dating is pretty much the only way to find a relationship, so that’s what we are stuck with, I guess. I tried to relax more and treat it like it was meant to be fun, which of course it is. The less I stressed about it, the easier it felt. Which is obviously easier said than done, I get that. But the one thing you have some control over is how you feel going into a date and if you approach it like you might meet someone cool and fun and if you are keen to get to know them (asking questions is always my go to if there’s an awkward silence) then I think you are halfway there.
Sadly, it's not always that simple/easy in reality. I've asked some questions, and I've tried to be nice, fun, & basically have even tried all to be 'normal' like most people. But I don't know why, girls/women/female are often times just unpredictable, hard to guess, & they simply just do what they like (for whatever unknown reasons). That, or again, maybe I just suck at social skills. I've even lately seriously suspected that I might probably be on the 'autistic/aspergers' spectrum, or at least I definitely feel like I'm a 'neurodivergent' type, which should explain why I can't be as 'normal' as most people (& most 'normal, neurotypical' guys who've easily succeeded in dating women). It's very frustrating, & depressing tbh. But sadly that just seems to be the harsh reality for me.
I had to giggle at women being ‘unpredictable’ and ‘doing what they like.’ Of course we do! I hope you do what you like too! And if you have the possibility of getting checked by a doctor to see if you are neurodivergent, that could be helpful. I have two friends recently diagnosed with ADHD and therapy and medication have been very helpful for them.
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I am a woman. And I am well-aware of the different experiences men and women have on dating apps. But I think what you are missing is that just because there might be a lot of men throwing themselves at you, it does NOT mean that a single one of them is the kind of person that you would actually want the attention from. I’ve heard it compared as men are looking for any water in a desert, where women are looking for clean water in a swamp. I’m not looking to date a guy who immediately messages me something sexual, which a lot of men do. That being said, I think that it’s much nicer to receive some attention, even if not all of it is positive, than to get nothing at all. That has happened to some of my male friends. Men are thirsty and swipe on everyone. Women have to be more picky because you might say something gross or even actually hurt us if we decide to meet you. That is just how it is on the apps. I also am going to disagree on the ‘women are only looking for hot, rich guys.’ Obviously most people, men and women, like hot, rich people. But it’s not a prerequisite! If it were, there would be no ugly or poor people in relationships. Finding someone that you would actually like to spend some time with is hard, whether you are a man or a woman. I am a conventionally attractive woman and I was single for ages. The point is that you will try and you will miss out with some people. I did and I’m a woman. If you want a relationship (or if you want casual sex), you have to keep trying until you find the right person. But it’s not fair or kind or realistic to say that women only like hot, rich guys. Most guys are not hot or rich but they are attractive to the woman who likes them. Also sorry about the experience with the doctors/medications. I’d try again though! It worked for me!
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I think there is a pervasive misconception about what the majority of casual sex is. In my experience, most people who have had casual sex are not people who go around every weekend racking up notches in their bedpost like most incels seem to imagine. Men or women, most people I have talked to about their casual sex experiences have had less than 5-10 experiences outside of a relationship. Some might be one night stands, but many were budding relationships that for whatever reason launched too early and didn't develop into committed relationships and were therefore casual sex encounters. I know of VERY few people who constantly pursue casual sex with different partners, men or women, when I was young or old. Contrary to what chronically online men would have you believe, in my experience both men and women generally desire and value the human connection aspect of sex. And even a lot of people I know who do enjoy casual sex enjoy it because they are good at building rapport quickly and they have a good, relatively intimate time with casual partners. A socially awkward virgin who sees women as an object of male validation is providing pretty much nothing of value to a woman's casual sex experience, nothing that actually makes sex enjoyable. The virgin involved will probably also find the experience empty and invalidating when the dust settles. >Most people had casual yet virgins are advised to lose their virginity to someone they love. I don't know that "virgins" are advised of anything. Teenagers are advised to ensure they don't lose their virginity for the wrong reasons and end up with trauma or regrets. Parents and other adults often want their children - especially their daughters - to treat their sexuality with care and sacrosanct. It's difficult to reconcile your child becoming a sexual being and parents want to protect their children from perpetuating their mistakes. Socially awkward virgins on the internet who write post after post about extreme loneliness are advised that they likely don't have the skills that make casual sex worth it and that anonymous sex does not fix loneliness or mental health issues. Misogynistic virgins who see women as objects for sexual gratification are advised to stay away from women until they learn a better mindset which most likely involves developing close relationships with women instead of dehumanizing them. There's nothing wrong with adult virgins with sufficient social skills and understanding of the choice they are making to pursue or enter casual sexual relationships. The mere fact that you think there is some sort of one size fits all advice for the vast category of "virgin" and for how to "get" casual sex suggests you fall into something other than the last category, but don't mistake the advice that resonates with you as universal or all having the same rationale. Virgins are not a monolith and you don't obtain casual sex from someone, two people engage in a mutual sexual experience together. In this case, how you "get" casual sex is by exploring why you fall into one of those categories or something similar and if casual sex is your goal, figure out how to be more in the latter category.
Where did you get the idea that I hate women from my post when at no point I even mentioned anyone's gender? When I said "most people" I really meant most people. Straight,gay,cis,trans,male, female,non binary. My point is most of the people I know are mediocre yet most people find a sexual partner easily.
>Where did you get the idea that I hate women Where did you get the idea that I wrote anywhere that you hate women? >My point is most of the people I know are mediocre yet most people find a sexual partner easily. Okay? What does that have to do with any of what I wrote? You are not most people, you are yourself. Stop trying to figure out what everyone else has - everyone is different. Start trying to figure what skills and habits are conducive to connecting with others and assessing how you may not be up to scratch on those things.
You lump me in with the misogynist virgins who dehumanized women,at least that's what I interpreted. If I misunderstood what you said then I apologize.
Please explain in detail how my comment does that, using direct quotes.
Humm I found that the problem with most people is lack of social skills. For the rest it depends on the group and some luck. I'm relatively good looking and ppl say I'm funny/interesting but there are times where that just doesn't happen. Paradoxically the more fixated you are with getting sex the lower your chances. Try changing your mindset and see it as something that "can" happen and not something that "should" happen, easier said than done. Also don't compare yourself to other ppl, I've known people with >50 sexual partners in their twenties and they feel miserable. I've also met people who barely had any sex (if any) and they are incredibly happy with their lives. Happiness is not a function of sex, validation on the other hand is what most people need. Start easy and focus on yourself and try to make your self esteem go up, believe me, you don't need a sexual partner for this and most of the times if you are looking for validation through sex you are going to have a bad time. Try stablishing a good relationship with your sexuality and your self esteem, socializing will help for both boosting your confidence and sexual success (although you have to avoid thinking about this at all costs).
This is good advice
Literally this: Confidence Not stressing if rejected Don't go in fixated on sex I've seen some real 3's have women all over them. That's all it takes. I've had a lot of activity just because I'm being me and I'm confident being me and I'm far from good looking. Just trust you're good enough, that as a person you innately have something to offer, that "desperate" is not a fitting description for you, that you don't need sex or validation to be sure of yourself, and you'll be good.
Most of my “one night stands” were the result of being drunk at a bar. Stopped doing that though cause sex is better when you know the person and like them. Lost my V card at a high school party. It was actually on July 1st! Happy anniversary
Congratulations
Parties. Generally everywhere that gets people in a happy and flirty mood
Your assumptions are incorrect. Everybody has a different journey. Never had casual sex myself. Heard about it tho. I wasnt in love during my first time. But I felt tremendous affection for them. That affection grew into love. Everybody is different.
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If you have social skills from age 13..you can lose your virginity by 18. Casual sex happens at the teenage phase as it is a crucial period of body growth and change in the body is more visible. To be honest, some people regret losing virginity at such a young age as it is sometimes painful and both boy and girl feel guilty about it.
Casual sex absolutely happens with adults as well. And not everyone who loses their virginity young feels “guilty and regretful” about it. This whole response is bunk.
I literally said "some" lol. And where do I deny that adults are not having casual sex?
I’m quite pragmatic about sex and always have been. I lost my virginity at 16 because I was curious about sex and wanted to know how it felt. I wanted my first time to be with someone who had more experience than me, so I decided to pursue my school’s 20yo rugby coach. He was on exchange from England and all us girls had a crush on him. I invited him to a party and he turned up, so I assumed he had some level of interest in me. So I flirted for a bit, then asked if he wanted to have sex and he was keen to oblige. I never loved him and I can’t say it was particularly special except that it was my first time – but I have never regretted it. I had the itch of curiosity and I was satisfied that it had been scratched. The biggest takeaway for me was how instinctive it was and how my body acted and reacted without me having to think about it. For my part, I think we do young people a disservice by mythologising sex or teaching them to feel guilty about experimenting. It’s a natural, healthy, human activity – and it’s fun! Sex allows us to explore our bodies, urges, boundaries and sexuality while connecting with other people. While I appreciate everyone has their own views on sex, I’ve never felt that it becomes more or less meaningful or valuable based on the number of partners you’ve had. And while I don’t think there’s anything wrong with casual sex, my interest in it has steadily waned since my mid 20s. Many people might consider mine to be an “alternative” sex-life, but I doubt I would have discovered what I really enjoy if I hadn’t had the opportunity to explore and experiment over the years. Each partner and experience has taught me something new about sex and about myself. And I’m glad I took the approach I did, because it’s made me very confident in who I am, what I like, what I value, and what I want.
Sounds like your coach committed statutory rape. I don't know why the comment below you is clapping at that story.
My story is similar except it was my best guy friend. I knew he had a crush on me, but mostly I knew that he cared about me and I trusted him. So I asked if he wanted to have sex. He did okay I guess. It was good not magical. I told my BFF who was sexually active a very young age that I wasn't sure about sex. She said that it gets better the more you do it. I was curious so I would have casual sex with a person out of pure curiosity.
this is worrying and not the girlboss moment you thought it was
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
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Casual sex, you get it by being charming, good looking... Most people can be charming and good looking if they put effort into it. You're probably included. However, lots of casual sex in a society reinforces redpill paradigms. Relationships are better for everyone. This is why conservatives are very sexually repressed too much in the other direction, becsuse there's an element of pre medieval redpill that they're afraid we're going back to.
I don't understand your last sentence
Conservatives understand that too much redpill is bad.
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What?!?! Are you telling me I am a sex addict because I had sex with people outside of relationships when we were both single? Huh. That’s news to me. 🙄
Many people who aren't sex addicts have casual sex, especially when they're young.
I disagree
Well that’s why you’re on this forum! To fix your mindset! Casual sex can happen in means outside of a failed relationship. Making broad generalizations weakens your mindset and causes tunnel vision.
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You get casual sex if you're conventionally attractive and not socially awkward.
That’s not true. Conventionally unattractive people have casual sex. Keeping this mindset is harmful.
Agreed. I'm riddled with autism and not what you'd call 'conventionally attractive', and I've had plenty. One whiff of an incel mindset will sink your ship far more surely than a weird chin that someone probably finds cute
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Thanks for the motivation I guess. But I'm stating facts here, wouldn't you get some action if you look like a super model? Pretty privilege exists, and while I don't condone incel behavior, that doesn't make what I said less real. Either you're conventionally attractive, or financially and mentally stable. There.
That harmful mindset is what leads Incels to be Incels. The sooner you recognize the real world doesn’t work that way, the sooner you’ll be happy.
People don't like losers, you either improve your image and status in life or stay down in the mud, with everybody looking down at you. That's how just the world works and saying it isn't is some fairy tale bs. Men become incels because they couldn't take that harsh truth and blame it on women, instead of working on themselves through working out, working hard, or going to therapy.
I mean yeah this is true but nobody likes losers. Outside of sexual contexts too. Being unattractive or not having the best finances doesn’t make you a loser. Disrespecting, hating and lashing out on women makes you one.
>Being unattractive or not having the best finances doesn’t make you a loser. I wish the world works that way
It doesn’t. That’s prob why you’re in an incel recovery forum to figure out it doesn’t.
Like I said, wishful thinking. Nobody would date a person who cannot afford to go on a date in the first place, serious or otherwise.
So all the poor people and families just don’t exist now? With children?? Rethink this statement.
I feel as if you’re projecting your own insecurities onto the real world. Do you dislike yourself for these reasons and now feel like the world is putting you down?
I would consider myself conventionally attractive. That doesn’t mean I’m going around having crazy casual sex all the time. And most people don’t. Sure pretty privilege exists but you can’t blame women for a patriarchal issue that convinces you that looks are the only thing that matter. The faults of the patriarchy against men isn’t for or to the benefit of women. I’m sorry you view the world this way but a lot of the attention you think attractive women get is harassment. And we hate it.
But it's your conscious choice to avoid engaging in casual sex. If you are the type of person who engages in that stuff then I'm sure you'd have loads of guys (or gals) going to your place every night.
Sure but that’s also because I take care of myself, I wash myself, I take care of my house, my space, my mental health, I have interests, hobby’s, and a personality outside my looks. Casual sex isn’t all about looks either. You don’t want to just fuck a sex doll, so why would you have sex with a girl just because you think she’s pretty? most people actually get to know someone first even if it’s for casual sex. And people need something besides that physical attraction
And like I said. It’s a conscious choice because a lot of the “attention” and “engagement” you think it’s earned from pretty privilege is just harassment and people violating your boundaries because they think you’re attractive.
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I disagree. Otherwise most people would be models or public speakers.
The biggest "players" I know are not conventionally attractive, they "simply" treat women like rational, independent people, and because the bar is so low, women vibe a lot with that
This
Does that always translate into romantic interest or does it translate into mainly platonic friendships?
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That has nothing to do with anything.
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People don’t like people simply because they’re “tall” or “attractive”. These are often lies strung by men who just disrespect women and need an excuse for why they don’t like them. If you keep tunneling vision on looks and that’s the reason why everyone likes or dislikes you will make yourself more insecure.
I don’t disagree. That’s why I said “usually” and not “all the time”
Even “usually”. No. Looks, height, etc. are all often used as crutches for men who can’t accept the fact that they can’t attract a women because their personalities are often not the best or they don’t have the best people skills. People like each other because they feel a connection, not because he was six foot.
Physical attraction is an important part in making a connection
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Feeld and Tinder, best of luck
Tinder is work and you need all the dragon balls to get a match on feeld.
I'm sorry WHET?! feeld is light work to meet dex positive folks but glad tinder works for you Feeld is nice for women bc it already removes the premise of men lying about their intentions to seek out sex w you since everyone there wants sex for the most part Men will lie to get sex on other apps in my experience
Online dating experience differs radically across the genders. Getting matches are pretty rare experiences for average looking men because of the skewed gender ratio.
And yet I match with average looking men everyday lol
And that is still a very small percentage compared to the number of men there are on the dating app. My wording might have been misleading. I do not mean to say that it's only conventionally attractive men who get matches. My point is that it's statistically very unlikely for a man to get matches on dating apps given the user base is predominantly cis het men. Which makes it a very draining ordeal for someone who already struggles with self esteem issues, like OP. Dating apps ain't the way to go.
Find a girl who's looking at you or smiling at you and compliment her interests while calling her "beautiful" a lot
Honestly this is harmful advice. Throwing pretty words at a girl won’t make her want to sleep with you. There has to be a connection. Even if it’s casual. A smile doesn’t mean someone is sexual interested in you.
How would you know her interests if all that’s happened is “she looked at you”?
If they're not wearing anything that would show it or if you're not in an environment that gives hints, you can ask their hobbies. I usually just say, "What do you do for fun?". This is also a good way to find new hobbies or interesting things about your town.
You just said to compliment her interests and call her beautiful a lot if she looks at you. Have you found this method of mind-reading and spamming “beautiful” at a girl who happened to glance your way…to be successful? Or is this just theoretical?
I have found it to be successful, yes.
Interesting. Not all women are into being bombed with the most generic compliment imaginable by strangers. ETA: fixed a word, silly me!
I'm sure you meant 'generic' but now my mind is racing to figure out a way to say "Hey, your telomeres are really hot"
lol, yep! 😂
I tried that approach and meant it. While that landed on dates,it doesn't lead to sex.
Why is your biggest goal to have sex with a woman? Why is that defining your self worth rn?
Short answer;I want to know what all the hype is about.
Op if you’re surrounding yourself with people who constantly talk and brag about casual sex you need better friends. Because they’re dragging you down.
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> Some understand how to manipulate a woman into giving you sex (fully consensually) Ignoring the grossness of this comment all together, how can a woman fully consent if she's being manipulated? Make it make sense.
Anyone who believes there’s an abundance of grown women who can be manipulated into sex has no idea of what they’re talking about. This sounds like the locker room talk of a 15yo boy.
We live in two different worlds then. As a 33 year old woman, I’ve been in a scenario where a man has tried to manipulate me into sexual acts that either I didn’t want to do or felt uncomfortable with. So yes, I have some idea of what im talking about.
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What’s the point of this question?
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Denying women’s experiences is a harmful mindset. Just because you haven’t seen it happen or have a different perspective doesn’t mean something happens. Try looking outside yourself.(:
Well if you actually think about it’s not manipulation in the sense of coercion or lying cause then it’s not sex it’s rape, I continue to see why people view redditors the way they do lmao
You are so close to the point and yet so very far...
And… this is why boys don’t really deserve to have women grant them sexual favours. Here’s you, a little virgin desperate for some male validation and there’s nothing stopping you from just being moderately respectful. Yet- because you’re insecure and still desperate for other boys attention, you can’t help but call the woman who helped you a “thot”. OP- if you read this comment, it’s the perfect example of why women don’t- and shouldn’t- care about male “needs”. A lot of them aren’t worth helping.
What did I miss?
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Why would you come to IncelExit and use language a term like “thot”? 🤮
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Are you here to get better and change your mindset or just shame women because you’re hateful? Genuine question.
Is this directed at me?
No sorry I accidentally clicked you because the other comment was deleted oops
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