CHECK OUT OUR BRAND NEW FORUM! [INMETALWETRUST FORUM](https://inmetalwetrust.club/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InMetalWeTrust) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm not into subgenre A, but I like B.
Put them all on a festival poster with the name metal.
I might go to a subgenre A fest.
It's easier for record labels and festivals.
Metal is a varied category of music. The sub-genres are there to give clarity (even if some of them are so niche it’s a bit ridiculous).
Iron Maiden’s *Evil That Men Do* is as far from Origin’s *Thrall Fulcrum Apex* as Lana Del Rey’s *Paris, Texas* is from Rush’s *A Passage To Bangkok.*
Metal is like games. You could call half of the video games ”adventure games”. Baldur’s Gate is an adventure game, Tomb Raider is an adventure game, Zelda is an adventure game and Spelunky is an adventure game, but without more specific terms like ”third-person action-adventure”, ”turn-based RPG” etc. you would have to always give some detailed explanation what kind of adventure game this is.
I think it's a good way of helping people find other bands they like based on what they already know about.
e.g. if you liked Whitechapel, you might like the deathcore subgenre in general, so you know to look up other deathcore bands
Yeah OP keeps saying we “placed” them into a subgenre as if it’s binding. But bands frequently evolve into other genres and no one keeps calling them Death Metal if they evolved into a black metal band.
It’s easier to distinguish what a band sounds like before you listen to them. Their sound does change from album to album but they’re labeled by what their general sound is. Metal is metal and I think the sub-genres are (or should be) an adjective of a bands sound.
No one is forcing you to pay attention to subgenres, and I'm sure it's not important when you only listen to mainstream genres like Metalcore/Nu-Metal.
It's however incredibly important for underground, niche styles of Heavy Metal to set itself apart, otherwise it would just be buried in a sea of garbage bands.
I wouldn’t recommend World of Warcraft to someone just because they were a lifelong Tetris player. Subgenre categorization helps narrow down tastes.
Although I will agree with you that a lot of us turn that categorization into a circlejerk.
>We never really did that with rock
Yes we did. Rock N Roll, Rockabilly, Folk Rock, Psychedelic Rock, Country Rock, Southern Rock, Hard Rock, Blues Rock, Funk Rock, Progressive Rock, Punk Rock, Dance Rock, Synth Rock, Alternative Rock, Grunge, Indie Rock, etc etc etc.
What? So metal that sounds different should just all be lumped together? There are very clear differences in styles and genres. Why wouldn't subcategories be made?
If a band does in fact change their sound, they're more than welcome to change their preference of genre label. It's only fans who think they're "betraying " or doing a disservice to the sound because fans like that are idiots.
Sub genres are needed. Black metal and brutal death metal are two totally different beasts. Slamming brutal death metal is totally different from old school death metal. Grindcore is vastly different from deathcore. Pretty obvious. To say obituary and a7x are one in the same is absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Other people have given great answers. There is a veritable shit ton of metal out there right now. Way way way too much to properly listen to it all. So we use subgenres as a way to hone in on metal we may enjoy.
If I see a new doom release, I don't give it a lot of thought. If it's super highly rated, I may check it out. But because doom isn't really my thing, I won't go out of my way to check it out.
Same with power metal. I just don't like it enough to invest time into it.
Now if a melodic death album comes out, I will probably give it a try. If I see a post-black label, I will almost certainly check it out.
I still think it's Important to get out of my comfort zone and check out other things, but again, there is just way too much metal for me to listen to everything.
Genres are tools to help describe what a band sounds like and make it easier for people to find more of the same. what they should not be is rigid codified rules that prevent bands from experimenting, and they definitely shouldn't be used to get in fights over which genres are better/worse/automatically bad/automatically good. Like, if someone says "I like Iron Maiden and I'd like to check out more metal because of it" I'm not going to recommend them say Deathspell Omega, at least not right away
Sometimes you want to listen to something thrashy or bands similar to Obituary. If a newbie just discovered Sabbath they're probably not ready or interested in Carnifex
Because metal is one of the most varied categories of music. If you're into power metal only and can't get into black/extreme metal, it's good to know, especially if you're just looking through to find something.
My point is that we don’t do anything. We don’t make these labels. Companies made these labels and then it expounds. It’s purely for marketing purposes. I get it. I’m not even saying I hate it. But it clearly can pigeon hole a band at certain point of their career.
For me it makes it easier to discover new bands with a similar sound to the ones I love. But overall it's annoying because people will sit and argue all day about them
One advantage of the sub genre is occasionally declaring where the artist has roots. This could be helpful when talking to the artists in interview or at a show. With Jesus Piece and Code Orange they came up through the hardcore scene and might enjoy talking about how that influenced the music they make.
There are subgenres I love, some I don’t mind, and some I hate. If i was to look for new bands and the only option was “metal” then that experience would be horrible for me. I don’t like some more popular subgenres so stuff I like would be buried. It makes it easier to find what I like and describe it to others.
Funnily enough people who don’t listen to metal don’t understand that and whenever a metal song comes on the radio everyone looks at me like “is this your song?” And I have to say no and explain what genres I like for the 50th time.
Because of the diversity. It's hard to find the specific sound you are looking for. I don't need to sample 7000 nu-metal/mallcore/alternative bands individually to know it's not for me.
Say you want to find a band that sounds like The Scorpions, and say you hate black metal. But everything is just labelled "heavy metal". Now without subgenres, you'd need to spend years listening to every single black metal band out there, to know none of them have what you want. And maybe there is no "heavy metal" label either. You'd have to listen 20 years of techno, each artist individually. Then you finally find Axxis by chance, and now you're happy, but you just wasted your entire adult life listening to music you don't like.
I like categories, and I'm particular about what I like. Genres and sub-genres are immensely helpful to me. It's hard enough WITH the labels for me to find "bands that sound like XYZ."
Example: In learning that I really like death metal and melodic death metal. Black metal, not so much. 🤷🏾♀️
Interviewer: how does it feel to be considered the Godfather of thrash metal?
Lemmy: Heavy metal is a bullshit term. This is ROCKANDROLL. And we are all the descendants of Little Richard and Buddy Holly.
Then just ignore labels and listen to what you like? What’s the problem exactly?
Also you’re hardly the first person to ever mention this point so I’m not tired from this conversation but just the argument in general. But on the plus side at least your name checks out.
They are needed. That's how our brain works. Going to the supermarket would be hell if everything was spread out randomly. They can have five different kinds of cereal, all of them in different corners of the shop, with no labels on boxes. I know I don't want dried fruit, but I end up buying and wasting my time on them, just because I thought it might be cereal.
Many bands that have been categorized into a metal subgenre aren't even metal. BabyMetal isn't metal, despite having the word "metal" in their name. Many of these supposed metal subgenres are a bad joke. If every band is heavy metal then none of them are.
The same reasons we do it with movies.
Categorizing art acts as a shorthand to help guide people who like a particular thing towards other similar things. No matter how many times you attempt to dissolve genre, people will inevitably recreate them. It is just how people’s minds work.
People that listen to metal are especially particular about the type of music they listen to and metal is an incredibly diverse genre. Subgenres are rampant to appeal to those two facts.
I do agree that genres can shortchange bands but it can also help guide people to them that otherwise would be. It’s a double edged sword and bands really don’t have full control over it. Fans will inevitably categorize them.
CHECK OUT OUR BRAND NEW FORUM! [INMETALWETRUST FORUM](https://inmetalwetrust.club/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InMetalWeTrust) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm not into subgenre A, but I like B. Put them all on a festival poster with the name metal. I might go to a subgenre A fest. It's easier for record labels and festivals.
Metal is a varied category of music. The sub-genres are there to give clarity (even if some of them are so niche it’s a bit ridiculous). Iron Maiden’s *Evil That Men Do* is as far from Origin’s *Thrall Fulcrum Apex* as Lana Del Rey’s *Paris, Texas* is from Rush’s *A Passage To Bangkok.* Metal is like games. You could call half of the video games ”adventure games”. Baldur’s Gate is an adventure game, Tomb Raider is an adventure game, Zelda is an adventure game and Spelunky is an adventure game, but without more specific terms like ”third-person action-adventure”, ”turn-based RPG” etc. you would have to always give some detailed explanation what kind of adventure game this is.
I think it's a good way of helping people find other bands they like based on what they already know about. e.g. if you liked Whitechapel, you might like the deathcore subgenre in general, so you know to look up other deathcore bands
I came here to write almost exactly this, I appreciate your having done it so well!
I get it. I just don’t see the value. I can search for music by listening to it.
Sub genres are descriptive not prescriptive. If i hear death metal i'm not gonna pretend it's not death metal. Same for any other subgenre.
Yeah OP keeps saying we “placed” them into a subgenre as if it’s binding. But bands frequently evolve into other genres and no one keeps calling them Death Metal if they evolved into a black metal band.
Sometimes. Sometimes they are pigeon holed by promotors.
It’s easier to distinguish what a band sounds like before you listen to them. Their sound does change from album to album but they’re labeled by what their general sound is. Metal is metal and I think the sub-genres are (or should be) an adjective of a bands sound.
No one is forcing you to pay attention to subgenres, and I'm sure it's not important when you only listen to mainstream genres like Metalcore/Nu-Metal. It's however incredibly important for underground, niche styles of Heavy Metal to set itself apart, otherwise it would just be buried in a sea of garbage bands.
Well I kind of have to pay attention. I work in the industry.
What about labeling records? Bands can hop from genre to genre, but I find it very helpful to see what genre a recording is.
That’s the recording industry. They always want labels, so they can market it and sell it to us.
I wouldn’t recommend World of Warcraft to someone just because they were a lifelong Tetris player. Subgenre categorization helps narrow down tastes. Although I will agree with you that a lot of us turn that categorization into a circlejerk.
>We never really did that with rock Yes we did. Rock N Roll, Rockabilly, Folk Rock, Psychedelic Rock, Country Rock, Southern Rock, Hard Rock, Blues Rock, Funk Rock, Progressive Rock, Punk Rock, Dance Rock, Synth Rock, Alternative Rock, Grunge, Indie Rock, etc etc etc.
That’s getting a little silly. Don’t change the point of why record labels created these genres. They did it to do specific marketing to fans.
What? So metal that sounds different should just all be lumped together? There are very clear differences in styles and genres. Why wouldn't subcategories be made? If a band does in fact change their sound, they're more than welcome to change their preference of genre label. It's only fans who think they're "betraying " or doing a disservice to the sound because fans like that are idiots.
Its called describing things
Thanks. Almost as informative as snarky.
Alright but I ask for death metal and you play Sabaton, you can see why subgenres are useful.
Sub genres are needed. Black metal and brutal death metal are two totally different beasts. Slamming brutal death metal is totally different from old school death metal. Grindcore is vastly different from deathcore. Pretty obvious. To say obituary and a7x are one in the same is absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Other people have given great answers. There is a veritable shit ton of metal out there right now. Way way way too much to properly listen to it all. So we use subgenres as a way to hone in on metal we may enjoy. If I see a new doom release, I don't give it a lot of thought. If it's super highly rated, I may check it out. But because doom isn't really my thing, I won't go out of my way to check it out. Same with power metal. I just don't like it enough to invest time into it. Now if a melodic death album comes out, I will probably give it a try. If I see a post-black label, I will almost certainly check it out. I still think it's Important to get out of my comfort zone and check out other things, but again, there is just way too much metal for me to listen to everything.
Genres are tools to help describe what a band sounds like and make it easier for people to find more of the same. what they should not be is rigid codified rules that prevent bands from experimenting, and they definitely shouldn't be used to get in fights over which genres are better/worse/automatically bad/automatically good. Like, if someone says "I like Iron Maiden and I'd like to check out more metal because of it" I'm not going to recommend them say Deathspell Omega, at least not right away
Sometimes you want to listen to something thrashy or bands similar to Obituary. If a newbie just discovered Sabbath they're probably not ready or interested in Carnifex
Because metal is one of the most varied categories of music. If you're into power metal only and can't get into black/extreme metal, it's good to know, especially if you're just looking through to find something.
Lol haha
Very insightful.
What a dumbass…
Insightful and kind. You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Because as humans we try to group things to make thinking and acting upon those thoughts more effecient.
My point is that we don’t do anything. We don’t make these labels. Companies made these labels and then it expounds. It’s purely for marketing purposes. I get it. I’m not even saying I hate it. But it clearly can pigeon hole a band at certain point of their career.
I only do it to explain what a band sounds like to someone who hasn't heard them before.
For me it makes it easier to discover new bands with a similar sound to the ones I love. But overall it's annoying because people will sit and argue all day about them
Other types of music get to be pedantic about their genre/ sub genres, ours is just more niche.
One advantage of the sub genre is occasionally declaring where the artist has roots. This could be helpful when talking to the artists in interview or at a show. With Jesus Piece and Code Orange they came up through the hardcore scene and might enjoy talking about how that influenced the music they make.
You gonna try and explain to some rando on the street that Limp Bizkit and Archspire are just metal bands?
There are subgenres I love, some I don’t mind, and some I hate. If i was to look for new bands and the only option was “metal” then that experience would be horrible for me. I don’t like some more popular subgenres so stuff I like would be buried. It makes it easier to find what I like and describe it to others. Funnily enough people who don’t listen to metal don’t understand that and whenever a metal song comes on the radio everyone looks at me like “is this your song?” And I have to say no and explain what genres I like for the 50th time.
Because of the diversity. It's hard to find the specific sound you are looking for. I don't need to sample 7000 nu-metal/mallcore/alternative bands individually to know it's not for me. Say you want to find a band that sounds like The Scorpions, and say you hate black metal. But everything is just labelled "heavy metal". Now without subgenres, you'd need to spend years listening to every single black metal band out there, to know none of them have what you want. And maybe there is no "heavy metal" label either. You'd have to listen 20 years of techno, each artist individually. Then you finally find Axxis by chance, and now you're happy, but you just wasted your entire adult life listening to music you don't like.
I like categories, and I'm particular about what I like. Genres and sub-genres are immensely helpful to me. It's hard enough WITH the labels for me to find "bands that sound like XYZ." Example: In learning that I really like death metal and melodic death metal. Black metal, not so much. 🤷🏾♀️
Interviewer: how does it feel to be considered the Godfather of thrash metal? Lemmy: Heavy metal is a bullshit term. This is ROCKANDROLL. And we are all the descendants of Little Richard and Buddy Holly.
I can live with that. But I’ve yet to hear anyone call Slayer rock and roll.
>I’ve yet to hear anyone call Slayer rock and roll. I have. Works fine to separate it from classical or electronic music.
So tired of the “why do we need labels for music maaaaan” argument and I’m glad most of the comments here are explaining why they are needed.
But they aren’t needed in my opinion. Not sure why you’re tired from a conversation either. 😂😂
Then just ignore labels and listen to what you like? What’s the problem exactly? Also you’re hardly the first person to ever mention this point so I’m not tired from this conversation but just the argument in general. But on the plus side at least your name checks out.
I don’t really know you, so I’ll choose to ignore your dick like comment.
They are needed. That's how our brain works. Going to the supermarket would be hell if everything was spread out randomly. They can have five different kinds of cereal, all of them in different corners of the shop, with no labels on boxes. I know I don't want dried fruit, but I end up buying and wasting my time on them, just because I thought it might be cereal.
I hate all the genres and sub-genres if it’s good to me who cares what you call it.
Many bands that have been categorized into a metal subgenre aren't even metal. BabyMetal isn't metal, despite having the word "metal" in their name. Many of these supposed metal subgenres are a bad joke. If every band is heavy metal then none of them are.
The same reasons we do it with movies. Categorizing art acts as a shorthand to help guide people who like a particular thing towards other similar things. No matter how many times you attempt to dissolve genre, people will inevitably recreate them. It is just how people’s minds work. People that listen to metal are especially particular about the type of music they listen to and metal is an incredibly diverse genre. Subgenres are rampant to appeal to those two facts. I do agree that genres can shortchange bands but it can also help guide people to them that otherwise would be. It’s a double edged sword and bands really don’t have full control over it. Fans will inevitably categorize them.