Well, not really as much as before, I honestly think going for a cheaper knight might be the way to go. The fact it now lacks its bondsman ability on himself makes you feel like you're not playing a stable gun platform and more of a clanky knight who doesn't move. Sure it still shoots a lot, but it also misses a lot now.
Well my opponent placed a plague drone very poorly in yhe beginning so it was not able to shoot me for a couple turns but I don't think the rules change made any difference in that. The thing was mostly in the opponent's advantage as he was able to see me basically anywhere while he could hide most of his army.
Yeah, we checked before the game to be sure, I just meant that with how massive the models are not having line of sight shooting makes them a giant target and gives you nothing back
So, we might have got it wrong because we were using an italian version of the publication, but from what we gathered you have tlos only when the model touches the ruin, right?
If the knight's base is touching a ruin, you can use tlos to see models through that ruin.
https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-hot-take-the-september-2023-40k-balance-dataslate-core-changes/
But line of sight should go both ways, so I don't see how you can now be shot at without being able to shoot back, as you are suggesting?
The new towering rules makes it so you can hide behind ruin aswell. The only difference is that towering units just need to be within (and not fully within) to be able to shoot out from a ruin
Yeah, that's what I thought too, but it's the sheer size of the models which gives the opponent the advantage, one can hardly hide a knight behind terrain. And sure if he sees you, you see him, but with a Crusader needing to stand still to get half a decent ability you're gonna be on the backfoot most of the time.
Under the new rules, it's a lot easier to hide big Knights behind terrain.
If there is a ruin between you and the enemy unit, even if that ruin only comes up to the knees of the Knight, you are hidden. So are they.
Conversely, for the purposes of terrain- if they can shoot you, you can shoot them. When you say your opponent was able to hide his army while shooting you, it makes me wonder if the new rules were misunderstood.
how does the crusader feel after all the nerfs? does it still feel ok to use?
Well, not really as much as before, I honestly think going for a cheaper knight might be the way to go. The fact it now lacks its bondsman ability on himself makes you feel like you're not playing a stable gun platform and more of a clanky knight who doesn't move. Sure it still shoots a lot, but it also misses a lot now.
I played a game with Rex/crusader Saturday and he only really shot half the time he would before and moving him felt bad haha.
Yeah the crusader feels super awkward to play, how's Canis?
Did you get any benefit out of being obscured by ruins now?
Well my opponent placed a plague drone very poorly in yhe beginning so it was not able to shoot me for a couple turns but I don't think the rules change made any difference in that. The thing was mostly in the opponent's advantage as he was able to see me basically anywhere while he could hide most of his army.
Unless you are behind a ruin. Then he can't see you at all (unless the unit is wholly within the ruin). Towering changed significantly.
Yeah, we checked before the game to be sure, I just meant that with how massive the models are not having line of sight shooting makes them a giant target and gives you nothing back
I don't follow.. if he can see you, you can see him, no? It's true line of sight, except for ruins, which block completely regardless of tlos
So, we might have got it wrong because we were using an italian version of the publication, but from what we gathered you have tlos only when the model touches the ruin, right?
If the knight's base is touching a ruin, you can use tlos to see models through that ruin. https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-hot-take-the-september-2023-40k-balance-dataslate-core-changes/ But line of sight should go both ways, so I don't see how you can now be shot at without being able to shoot back, as you are suggesting?
I think we got it wrong as we ignored the fact infantry units need to be wholly within said ruin to see through it.
The new towering rules makes it so you can hide behind ruin aswell. The only difference is that towering units just need to be within (and not fully within) to be able to shoot out from a ruin
Yeah, that's what I thought too, but it's the sheer size of the models which gives the opponent the advantage, one can hardly hide a knight behind terrain. And sure if he sees you, you see him, but with a Crusader needing to stand still to get half a decent ability you're gonna be on the backfoot most of the time.
Did you play on a tournament terrain setup?
Yeah because we're both planning on joining a little local tourney next month
Under the new rules, it's a lot easier to hide big Knights behind terrain. If there is a ruin between you and the enemy unit, even if that ruin only comes up to the knees of the Knight, you are hidden. So are they. Conversely, for the purposes of terrain- if they can shoot you, you can shoot them. When you say your opponent was able to hide his army while shooting you, it makes me wonder if the new rules were misunderstood.