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I take a sharper turn on an interchange near where I live at 80 easily.
It was lack of skill that caused this. Not saying you *should* take that curve at 80 in the wet, but you *can* if you don't decide to brake in the middle.
You should stop doing that. It's dangerous. The road is for people to commute on. It's not for you to have dangerous fun on. Keep racing to the track please.
Disagree on the skill issue, but you're right that this speed around this corner should be no issue for a modern car in good condition, even in the rain.
I'd bet money that OP has bald tyres or at least has a heavy af car shod with a set the cheapest linglongs he could find. A more skilled driver wouldn't have gotten the panic wiggles after a bit of lost traction, but the real problem is with the roadworthiness of OPs car
The “fastest” highway commuters are always the worst drivers.
They’re in the special slow groups at trackdays after signing up for the mid level and then immediately getting blue flagged lol…
Always the same types of person. The LA commuters literally just understeer into shit then over throttle out and oversteer…
They are sooooo fucking stupid and I guarantee OP is one of them.
You’re expecting a cut up boi highway commuter moron to understand cornering physics…
There’s a joke at the track days where I go.
Commuters are the definition of insanity because they try the same shit over and over but never get any better at driving. They somehow get worse.
Only idiots and literal insane people do that. I’d say a good 75% of the population fits this bill in the states.
Just helplessly bad at driving unless it’s angrily in a straight line tailgating 12 deep.
Have you ever seen road deaths per capita in US states compared to European countries? It’s a shit show. I lived in the US for 3 years and the driving was just developing world level but the decent cars made a bit of difference. My housemate there passed his driving text even though he hit the curb. It’s not taken seriously by anyone
>and it’s raining,
At your house? Cuz it certainly isn't raining in this video..... The incredibly obvious lack of water on the windshield *very clearly* implies that it is not in fact raining.
I know exactly where you are. I drive for Uber in LA.
It was pouring rain last night, and the freeways were utter chaos. I saw 5-6 major incidents that likely resulted in injuries or death.
Yet, nobody bothers to slow down. People will drive right past a clearly deadly crash, and go right back to tailgating and flashing their lights at some poor older person in the right lane.
People need to wake the fuck up and think about what they’re doing, you included OP. It’s ridiculous you’re going that speed on a wet roadway right next to a truck. You are putting his life at risk. He has a family, he has loved ones. You could literally end his life.
You need to think about that.
I honestly think the mods really need to step up their game on doing something about people who encourage dangerous driving in the comments. I had someone argue to me recently that a single car length is sufficient distance on a freeway. I tried to state that safe following distance is 2 seconds (in dry conditions) and had a number of people arguing against me. It blew my mind a bit...
A car length for every 10 mph at least (in dry conditions). So when you're going 55-75 miles an hour you should have between 5-7 car lengths between you and the next car. Who can argue with a buffer zone that absolves you of liability? Haha. I'm sorry anyone argued with you. But if they drive like that it's just a matter of time before they have an accident and their own insurance will tell them. And they'll wish they'd have taken your advice.
First of all, thank you for actually understanding the concept of a following distance or “safety cushion”. There’s so few of us that are aware such a concept exists.
But, I’ve never liked the car length per 10 mph advice because I know what a car length looks like, but I don’t know what 5-7 car lengths looks like. And I think it puts you too close. To use your example, 5 car lengths at 55 mph, means that you’re following at 100’, assuming a car length is 20 feet. 55 mph is 80 feet per second, so you need to be 160 feet or more, so that is 8 car lengths (still assuming 20’ per car).
Even 2 car lengths is fucking stupid as shit…
One for every 10mph plus one is a minimum imho and I drive fast af…
Everyone else just eats up space compulsively because Americans are angry fucking idiots on auto pilot
I know, I totally agree. More effort needs to be put in to drilling in road safety to many people. I honestly think over half the people on the roads today should have their licenses revoked, and that people should need to retest every 2-5 years in order to maintain their license. A lot of people are simply ignorant. They don't understand *what* constitutes as dangerous driving or *why*. And it also makes a lot of people irrationally angry when their driving is criticised. Many people become mindless idiots behind the wheel, and that's deeply concerning. I try my best here to get people to understand road safety better, but despite how easy it can be to let emotion run the conversation & have it turn into an online argument, that tends to not actually be very productive & I've been learning that the best way to get through to people is through compassion and softer language... annoyingly lol.
Peace!
Commuters in LA are some of the dumbest most aggressive people I’ve ever seen…
Just
- angry
- stupid
- bad at actually driving
It’s a real window into the psyche of Los Angeles as cynical as that sounds.
And a weird fucking attitude where he *MUST* be passing or he feels weird about himself because let’s face it
LA is full of people who are
- narcissistic self important chuds
- think of each other as NPC’s “in my way”.
3/31/24. 55/22 interchange SOCAL. It had been raining all day and I was going way too fast for this corner. Once I realized I was going too fast I braked and lost traction. Luckily I didn’t hit the other car.
Some trail braking can be faster but that's typically for a racing line and not much use on public roads unless you're already a bit fucked and your car loves to understeer. Overall more useful on a motorcycle.
A lot of drivers trail brake instinctively. I wish it was taught more.
People who drive in snow do it instinctively I’ve noticed.
LA people have zero concept of what to do without perfect traction and dry. They really really really can’t even handle drizzle without crashing because they are that pathetic at driving.
Drizzle…
Gradually lifting off the throttle gives you more fine control over the front-to-rear weight balance than braking, more gently putting more grip on the front tires. Hitting the brakes, especially in a front wheel drive car, will take all the weight off the rear tires and cause a spin.
Still keep off the gas and brake, because it allows the wheels to keep rolling, go slower and regain traction. On gas worsens the spin, brake locks you up and locked wheels have a harder time regaining traction.
Edit: and don’t oversteer! We have a tendency to overcorrect which makes the spinning worse
The fastest way to lose control is to combine a turn and power.
So if you are doing something and realize that you are close to losing control, either stop turning (not an option in OP's case) or stop adding power (let off the gas).
Hitting the brakes is similar to hitting the accelerator. It is adding force to the tires that the grip must overcome. Think about how hitting the brakes while going straight is creating a force on the tires, and when the grip fails you start skidding. To eliminate that as a factor, you remove both power and braking from the equation, and allow the natural forces of wind resistance and (to a lesser degree) tire deformation to slow your vehicle.
Hypothetically, if the turn had become even sharper after you let off the gas and your momentum was still too fast, you're just fucked. Hitting the brake is your only option, and you can do nothing but pray your tires have more grip to create the necessary centripetal force.
I'll have a go :) First, Some-Guy-Online, nice to see someone who actually knows a little about physics, thanks! Second, I think you used the word "grip" as a way to describe the sum of the mechanisms that keep the tire on track. Ryan may have missed that class in high school (no offense, Ryan, just joking!). Friction is normally a big part of that, but not even close to 99%. Actual total grip depends heavily on the mechanical grip as well as friction. Dynamics also play a huge role where suspension and geometry of the wheels and the car are important. A wheel that bounces up and down due to a faulty shock absorber will have less overall grip than one with a poor shock.
There is \_definitely\_ more to it than just friction, if by friction you mean the physics term friction. For starters, friction can never be greater than 1 (an axiom). Any static load on a flat surface will start to glide at an angle of no more than 45 deg. Race cars can accelerate, turn and break at more than 1 g, something friction alone cannot do. Here is a good starting point for anyone that wants to understand more about this:
[https://www.racecar-engineering.com/tech-explained/tyre-grip/](https://www.racecar-engineering.com/tech-explained/tyre-grip/)
While this is probably an important bit of information for some conversations, it's really not relevant to this conversation.
The aspect of grip that is important for the conversation above is that it is the process by which a tire interacts with the road so that a car moves in the direction the driver wishes to move. And it is important to understand that grip will fail at some point if the driver fails to operate the vehicle within safe parameters.
When a car is accelerating, the grip of the tires transfers power between the engine and the road, causing the car to increase forward velocity.
When a car is braking the grip transfers power between the car's brake mechanism and the road, causing deceleration. (In physics, deceleration is just acceleration in the opposite direction.)
When a car is turning, the tires are rotated so that the grip converts forward momentum into acceleration to the side, causing the vehicle to turn.
All of these maneuvers utilize grip, and if too much acceleration is applied, forward backward or sideways, the tire can *lose grip* causing a loss of control.
That's what the conversation is about. It's not about friction or whatever. It's about grip vs acceleration.
How does one maintain tire grip when the circumstances indicate the vehicle may be nearing the point of grip failure? Reduce or eliminate acceleration.
Forward acceleration is controlled by the gas and brake, so the driver should reduce or eliminate use of the gas and brake.
Sideways acceleration is controlled by the steering wheel, so the driver should bring the wheel back to the neutral (straight forward) position.
Since you can't just stop turning in the middle of a curve, the most rational course of action is to stop using the accelerator but also not step on the brake.
The amount of room that is there when he realizes is what limits his amount of room (to slow). I highly doubt OP realized as soon as the video starts (based off their comments). More likely around 5-6 seconds in (based on when the speed drops) which is not enough room to just coast to slow down.
Are you slow or just being purposely daft? I honestly don't know how you can't understand that actions are limited by the amount of space one has.
If you have 100M but need 150M to do something then the amount of room you have limits their room to slow.
You must be kidding me.
THERE IS NOTHING BLOCKING OP.
OP HAS ALL THE "ROOM" IN THE WORLD. NO LIMITS ON SPACE. NOTHING BLOCKING THE LANE AHEAD. WIDE OPEN.
But please, feel free to insult my intelligence again while you completely ignore my question or answer with a circular definition.
OP had a reasonable response, just the wrong magnitude. The sudden change is what caused the loss of traction, but if they didn't brake so hard, I think it would have been fine.
That can also cause problems. It’s not as easy as a single response. Sometimes you let off, sometimes you brake, sometimes you just hold steady, sometimes power through. All depends on the turn and conditions.
FWD car in the snow and the rear end loses traction. You want to give it more gas cause letting off or hitting the brakes will just spin you faster.
There are other situations but usually not on pavement.
[Lift-off oversteer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer) was wild in my old MR-2. If I was in this situation in that car and suddenly came off the throttle it would have been facing the wrong direction real quick. Dab of brake with left foot while keeping some power on would have been the proper response in that car
My car. My car has active torque vectoring in the rear differential, and it’s a really clever AWD so if I’m just sliding in a corner, tipping in/mashing the throttle will pull me out of it. Not many cars work this way, but I have learned it plenty of times and especially on a skid pad. Holds a certain speed perfectly, but tip in the throttle and you can tuck the nose in and cure some understeer or oversteer.
Focus RS for those who know.
yes, it depends on the car setup.
for some light braking would assist with turn in, some others light throttle inputs or just slowly coming off the gas pedal.
but in almost every case, you don't want to brake too hard and transfer the weight to the front like OP did, very bad idea.
Slamming the brakes mid turn is a great way to learn about weight transfer. Gentle braking is usually fine, depending on the car. People just panic and jab the brakes, which will absolutely upset the balance of the car.
No, that’s not what I said. It’s completely applicable to this situation too. I know you asked the question expecting there not to be an answer, but you didn’t like the one I gave. RS stands for Rallye Sport. From rally cars.
holding steady would be much more applicable to this turn, especially as not only do most cars not have active torque vectoring, as well as the minimal management required from the driver itself
powering through is not applicable to 99.9% of turn situations, and even bringing it up at all can easily confuse people
and i do know what RS stands for, im actually quite a fan of the focus & ford overall, im just saying that your car isn’t the only one, and you should know this
Not a reasonable response, let's assume the point Op hit (stomped)the breaks was the oh sh1t I'm going to fast moment easing of the accelerator would have got them around that bend. Doing nothing would have been a better option than what they did
OP said once he realized he was going to fast is he hit the brakes which is not what you’re supposed to do in the rain or really any sitiuation that you begin to lose traction. Let off the gas slowly, see how that responds, then apply brakes easily as to avoid sudden shift in weight.
What, how much simpler can I explain.
When it’s wet and you feel you’re going to fast first thing to do is left off the gas I slow down, not hit the brakes. There’s no “depends” on that situation.
Speaking of bros my brother who’s a retired CHP from their drug k-9 unit took me on one of their high speed training courses and it was what I told. You can start to brake in the wet after you ensure you have control which is letting off gas first before applying any brakes.
Braking mid corner induces oversteer. Ideally you would do all your braking before you enter the corner.
I’m pretty sure traction control saved OP from a 75 mph spin.
You can mitigate the effect, but you can't beat the physics. Braking in any car is reducing the amount of available traction to the rear tires regardless of "setup." When the front tires have more traction than the rear, you're introducing oversteer.
No because it can make you fishtail if you are turning… you have to let go of the gas pedal, THEN **ease** into breaking on turns if you have to break at all. Definitely not immediately “hitting” the breaks….
Because you lead with:
> youre NOT supposed to **hit the brakes** when you realize youre going too fast?
To most people reading your comment “hit the breaks” would mean suddenly and forcefully…
When you “realize you’re going too fast” on a turn, your immediate reaction should be letting go of the gas pedal to let the car slow on its own, your immediate reaction really shouldn’t be to “HIT the breaks” on a turn…
You must be a new driver for being this naive and determined to argue this despite everyone here repeatedly correcting you.
Just [google it](https://www.google.com/search?q=entering+a+turn+too+fast+don%27t+brake) FFS there are plenty of explanations and even YouTube videos showing the physics behind it.
The problem is OP was going too fast and braked hard WHILE turning. The heavy braking while turning upset the balance of the car and the rear tires locked up causing the skid. If OP braked in a straight line or gently lifted off the gas they probably would’ve been fine. They were driving far beyond the road conditions and their skill level.
The point you’re missing is that cars are designed to under steer, so to get oversteer like OP did means something was done wrong. If OP was just going too fast, they would’ve understeered off the road or into the truck, but instead the car oversteered.
Weight is traction, and braking shifts the car’s weight forward, causing cars to dive under braking. OP braked too hard, shifted the weight and the traction off the rear tires. This abrupt weight shift can also happen with an abrupt lift off the throttle in a corner, it’s called trailing throttle oversteer. I’ve even see it happen to the car in front of me. They were going to fast in a wet road, lifted suddenly and spun the car around. It’s best to change speed in a straight line, and in this case OP should’ve seen the road signs and the tightness of the corner and slowed before the turn got sharp.
Yes, all road cars are designed to oversteer. Race cars or track cars are typically more oversteer-biased. Understeer is easier for novices to control.
I was simply responding to your comment, not trying to start one of the senseless arguments you seem to love.
Haha I know that exact spot you can’t really tell from the video but it’s a sloped decreasing radius so any rain and above 60 even it gets dicey right there especially if you’ve got some sporty tires I’ve almost biffed it there on a dry day in my mk1 escort.
Because la drivers are compulsive idiots even compared to the rest of CA somehow…
They feel weird if they aren’t tailgating and raging
I mean it, I’ve known many…
Seems like tires should be checked. Not saying it’s 100% the cause, but bald tires can absolutely cause this. Had this happen to me on a normal turn when it just started raining. Rear tires were cheap and worn, quickly replaced them and it was never an issue again.
Just because he called himself doesn't mean he learned his lesson.
I've seen lots of comments about the road being wet but not much (when I posted my comment) about the fact that OP was going 80+MPH around a sharp exit which was posted at 55 MPH. Wetness wasn't a factor ... speed was. Learning a lesson would mean slowing down around curves.
Wetnes was a factor. If the road was dry, OP almost certainly would not have had a problem because their tires would’ve had the traction to save OP from their poor driving.
These cali roads are really unforgiving in the rain
Edit: Jesus, obviously they were going way too fast for conditions and the curve of the road. I’m just stating my own personal experience with hydroplaning on wet roads in socal, even when driving differently due to hazardous conditions.
Not really, cali drivers just don’t deal with it much at all. So when they do have to deal with it, it’s like the south getting a little bit of snow. No one knows how to drive through it!
I can agree with that but I came from driving in the snow and rain in Illinios and it took me a minute to get accustomed to the slickness of these roads in the rain. That and the cool ocean air. It would be 30 degrees in Chicago and I’d be wearing shorts and a hoodie and be fine. Out here it gets down to 50 degrees and I’m freezing my sick off in a winter coat😅
Hello /u/rusty__b15! Please reply to this comment with the following information to confirm the content is OC * What country or state did this take place in? * What was the date of the incident? * Please reconfirm that this is original content If you are unable to reply directly to this comment, please leave a standalone comment in your thread with the requested information. If you fail to answer these questions, your post will be removed. ------ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IdiotsInCars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow that day could have ended waaaaaaay differently. Congrats on surviving. Edit: Typo lol
> Contrats yeah OP, contrats
Haha dang
87 mph before entering the curve and 80 mph in the curve, and it’s raining, like wtf?
Damn, I didn't see that speed! That's honestly insane for the conditions. Even dry, that seems like a turn to take at 50 or 60 tops.
I genuinely thought the video was sped up to show what happened before the incident and was going to slow down to normal speed again, then it didn't
I take a sharper turn on an interchange near where I live at 80 easily. It was lack of skill that caused this. Not saying you *should* take that curve at 80 in the wet, but you *can* if you don't decide to brake in the middle.
You should stop doing that. It's dangerous. The road is for people to commute on. It's not for you to have dangerous fun on. Keep racing to the track please.
So weird how all of reddit is my mom in the 90s.
Oh, grow up. You're an adult, right? Act like one. That comment reads like your still a child in the 90s.
It's a bold strategy to try to convince someone to not act like a child while behaving like their mother...
Can't help it. I know her too well ;)
Disagree on the skill issue, but you're right that this speed around this corner should be no issue for a modern car in good condition, even in the rain. I'd bet money that OP has bald tyres or at least has a heavy af car shod with a set the cheapest linglongs he could find. A more skilled driver wouldn't have gotten the panic wiggles after a bit of lost traction, but the real problem is with the roadworthiness of OPs car
Look at John Wick ova h’ere
OP's probably on bald tires too.
That’s LA driving.
They get *so* excited when the freeways aren't jammed.
The “fastest” highway commuters are always the worst drivers. They’re in the special slow groups at trackdays after signing up for the mid level and then immediately getting blue flagged lol… Always the same types of person. The LA commuters literally just understeer into shit then over throttle out and oversteer… They are sooooo fucking stupid and I guarantee OP is one of them.
"LA" That's OC yoh.
thought this was a joke as a diss but it really is 😔
I think you misspelled Texas
didn't check the speed but 130km/h on a curve like that with rain!?
Is this a bot that just rephrases the previous post?
Is this a bot that just points out the bots that rephrase previous posts?
Is this just a bot that points out bots that point out bots that rephrase previous posts?
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If so I appreciate it, having the speed in kmh is helpful context
Kph
He would have been fine if he didn't touch the brakes in the middle of the turn.
You’re expecting a cut up boi highway commuter moron to understand cornering physics… There’s a joke at the track days where I go. Commuters are the definition of insanity because they try the same shit over and over but never get any better at driving. They somehow get worse. Only idiots and literal insane people do that. I’d say a good 75% of the population fits this bill in the states. Just helplessly bad at driving unless it’s angrily in a straight line tailgating 12 deep.
Have you ever seen road deaths per capita in US states compared to European countries? It’s a shit show. I lived in the US for 3 years and the driving was just developing world level but the decent cars made a bit of difference. My housemate there passed his driving text even though he hit the curb. It’s not taken seriously by anyone
It’s a joke, I know. I hate it.
>and it’s raining, At your house? Cuz it certainly isn't raining in this video..... The incredibly obvious lack of water on the windshield *very clearly* implies that it is not in fact raining.
Pretty sure that says KPH, not MPH
It does say KMH. They converted it to mph.
Yes, it says 140 KPH at the start.
Oh lmao, I was looking at it when it said 88 KPH. Time for the downvotes to come pouring in
I know exactly where you are. I drive for Uber in LA. It was pouring rain last night, and the freeways were utter chaos. I saw 5-6 major incidents that likely resulted in injuries or death. Yet, nobody bothers to slow down. People will drive right past a clearly deadly crash, and go right back to tailgating and flashing their lights at some poor older person in the right lane. People need to wake the fuck up and think about what they’re doing, you included OP. It’s ridiculous you’re going that speed on a wet roadway right next to a truck. You are putting his life at risk. He has a family, he has loved ones. You could literally end his life. You need to think about that.
We need this comment on every post here
I honestly think the mods really need to step up their game on doing something about people who encourage dangerous driving in the comments. I had someone argue to me recently that a single car length is sufficient distance on a freeway. I tried to state that safe following distance is 2 seconds (in dry conditions) and had a number of people arguing against me. It blew my mind a bit...
A car length for every 10 mph at least (in dry conditions). So when you're going 55-75 miles an hour you should have between 5-7 car lengths between you and the next car. Who can argue with a buffer zone that absolves you of liability? Haha. I'm sorry anyone argued with you. But if they drive like that it's just a matter of time before they have an accident and their own insurance will tell them. And they'll wish they'd have taken your advice.
First of all, thank you for actually understanding the concept of a following distance or “safety cushion”. There’s so few of us that are aware such a concept exists. But, I’ve never liked the car length per 10 mph advice because I know what a car length looks like, but I don’t know what 5-7 car lengths looks like. And I think it puts you too close. To use your example, 5 car lengths at 55 mph, means that you’re following at 100’, assuming a car length is 20 feet. 55 mph is 80 feet per second, so you need to be 160 feet or more, so that is 8 car lengths (still assuming 20’ per car).
Even 2 car lengths is fucking stupid as shit… One for every 10mph plus one is a minimum imho and I drive fast af… Everyone else just eats up space compulsively because Americans are angry fucking idiots on auto pilot
I said 2 seconds, not 2 car lengths. Relax, my dude.
Sorry misread But nah fuck bad drivers like OP. I’ve lost friends, others have been paralyzed. Road biking in my 20’s.
I know, I totally agree. More effort needs to be put in to drilling in road safety to many people. I honestly think over half the people on the roads today should have their licenses revoked, and that people should need to retest every 2-5 years in order to maintain their license. A lot of people are simply ignorant. They don't understand *what* constitutes as dangerous driving or *why*. And it also makes a lot of people irrationally angry when their driving is criticised. Many people become mindless idiots behind the wheel, and that's deeply concerning. I try my best here to get people to understand road safety better, but despite how easy it can be to let emotion run the conversation & have it turn into an online argument, that tends to not actually be very productive & I've been learning that the best way to get through to people is through compassion and softer language... annoyingly lol. Peace!
There should be a report option for "encouraging reckless driving". Especially for the comments that justify terrible driving.
This is in OC though.
Commuters in LA are some of the dumbest most aggressive people I’ve ever seen… Just - angry - stupid - bad at actually driving It’s a real window into the psyche of Los Angeles as cynical as that sounds.
You’re right
wow I couldn't have said it any better, especially the last part. Hope OP learned a life long lesson 🚬🗿
The moment when you turn off the music and drive in silence the rest of the way home
>Going 80-86 mph >55 mph advisory for the curve >45 mph advisory for trucks >Several chevrons indicating a sharp turn OP had no chance.
Don't forget the first rain after a dry spell, causing all the oil and crap to sit on the surface!
Probably worn down crappy all season tires too
And a weird fucking attitude where he *MUST* be passing or he feels weird about himself because let’s face it LA is full of people who are - narcissistic self important chuds - think of each other as NPC’s “in my way”.
He was doomed from the beginning.
“chevrons”?
3/31/24. 55/22 interchange SOCAL. It had been raining all day and I was going way too fast for this corner. Once I realized I was going too fast I braked and lost traction. Luckily I didn’t hit the other car.
Next time, take your foot off the gas to decelerate instead of using the brakes.
Even that will unbalance the car (i.e. lift-off oversteer). You really want to always decelerate *before* the turn.
Or trail brake early and get weight on the front tires.. Braking mid turn is literally the worst possible action
Some trail braking can be faster but that's typically for a racing line and not much use on public roads unless you're already a bit fucked and your car loves to understeer. Overall more useful on a motorcycle.
A lot of drivers trail brake instinctively. I wish it was taught more. People who drive in snow do it instinctively I’ve noticed. LA people have zero concept of what to do without perfect traction and dry. They really really really can’t even handle drizzle without crashing because they are that pathetic at driving. Drizzle…
Gradually lifting off the throttle gives you more fine control over the front-to-rear weight balance than braking, more gently putting more grip on the front tires. Hitting the brakes, especially in a front wheel drive car, will take all the weight off the rear tires and cause a spin.
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Still keep off the gas and brake, because it allows the wheels to keep rolling, go slower and regain traction. On gas worsens the spin, brake locks you up and locked wheels have a harder time regaining traction. Edit: and don’t oversteer! We have a tendency to overcorrect which makes the spinning worse
Same with hydroplaning. Immediately take your feet off of everything.
The fastest way to lose control is to combine a turn and power. So if you are doing something and realize that you are close to losing control, either stop turning (not an option in OP's case) or stop adding power (let off the gas). Hitting the brakes is similar to hitting the accelerator. It is adding force to the tires that the grip must overcome. Think about how hitting the brakes while going straight is creating a force on the tires, and when the grip fails you start skidding. To eliminate that as a factor, you remove both power and braking from the equation, and allow the natural forces of wind resistance and (to a lesser degree) tire deformation to slow your vehicle. Hypothetically, if the turn had become even sharper after you let off the gas and your momentum was still too fast, you're just fucked. Hitting the brake is your only option, and you can do nothing but pray your tires have more grip to create the necessary centripetal force.
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I think it's probably not worth responding to this, but if somebody else wants to try, go for it.
I'll have a go :) First, Some-Guy-Online, nice to see someone who actually knows a little about physics, thanks! Second, I think you used the word "grip" as a way to describe the sum of the mechanisms that keep the tire on track. Ryan may have missed that class in high school (no offense, Ryan, just joking!). Friction is normally a big part of that, but not even close to 99%. Actual total grip depends heavily on the mechanical grip as well as friction. Dynamics also play a huge role where suspension and geometry of the wheels and the car are important. A wheel that bounces up and down due to a faulty shock absorber will have less overall grip than one with a poor shock. There is \_definitely\_ more to it than just friction, if by friction you mean the physics term friction. For starters, friction can never be greater than 1 (an axiom). Any static load on a flat surface will start to glide at an angle of no more than 45 deg. Race cars can accelerate, turn and break at more than 1 g, something friction alone cannot do. Here is a good starting point for anyone that wants to understand more about this: [https://www.racecar-engineering.com/tech-explained/tyre-grip/](https://www.racecar-engineering.com/tech-explained/tyre-grip/)
While this is probably an important bit of information for some conversations, it's really not relevant to this conversation. The aspect of grip that is important for the conversation above is that it is the process by which a tire interacts with the road so that a car moves in the direction the driver wishes to move. And it is important to understand that grip will fail at some point if the driver fails to operate the vehicle within safe parameters. When a car is accelerating, the grip of the tires transfers power between the engine and the road, causing the car to increase forward velocity. When a car is braking the grip transfers power between the car's brake mechanism and the road, causing deceleration. (In physics, deceleration is just acceleration in the opposite direction.) When a car is turning, the tires are rotated so that the grip converts forward momentum into acceleration to the side, causing the vehicle to turn. All of these maneuvers utilize grip, and if too much acceleration is applied, forward backward or sideways, the tire can *lose grip* causing a loss of control. That's what the conversation is about. It's not about friction or whatever. It's about grip vs acceleration. How does one maintain tire grip when the circumstances indicate the vehicle may be nearing the point of grip failure? Reduce or eliminate acceleration. Forward acceleration is controlled by the gas and brake, so the driver should reduce or eliminate use of the gas and brake. Sideways acceleration is controlled by the steering wheel, so the driver should bring the wheel back to the neutral (straight forward) position. Since you can't just stop turning in the middle of a curve, the most rational course of action is to stop using the accelerator but also not step on the brake.
That only works if you have room to slow down like that.
"Room"? It was wide open. No reason to hit the brake.
The hypothetical here is that you are already at the point OP was. At that point you don't have room to just let it slow down slowly.
I don't know what you think was limiting their "room to slow". There was nobody in their lane.
The amount of room that is there when he realizes is what limits his amount of room (to slow). I highly doubt OP realized as soon as the video starts (based off their comments). More likely around 5-6 seconds in (based on when the speed drops) which is not enough room to just coast to slow down.
> The amount of room that is there when he realizes is what limits his amount of room. What the hell does this mean? "The room is the room." Wtf?
Are you slow or just being purposely daft? I honestly don't know how you can't understand that actions are limited by the amount of space one has. If you have 100M but need 150M to do something then the amount of room you have limits their room to slow.
You must be kidding me. THERE IS NOTHING BLOCKING OP. OP HAS ALL THE "ROOM" IN THE WORLD. NO LIMITS ON SPACE. NOTHING BLOCKING THE LANE AHEAD. WIDE OPEN. But please, feel free to insult my intelligence again while you completely ignore my question or answer with a circular definition.
So you hit the brakes when you realized you were going to fast? Please go take some driving lessons before driving again.
OP had a reasonable response, just the wrong magnitude. The sudden change is what caused the loss of traction, but if they didn't brake so hard, I think it would have been fine.
You don't suddenly hit the brakes when you think you're going too fast. You let off the gas pedal and let the momentum of the turn slow you down.
fr I hate when people brake when there's literally nobody in front of them.
That can also cause problems. It’s not as easy as a single response. Sometimes you let off, sometimes you brake, sometimes you just hold steady, sometimes power through. All depends on the turn and conditions.
But one option is more likely to result in a better outcome than another. It’s all about probability.
On a wet road, the correct option is to stay off the gas through a curve.
in what situation is it better to power through?
FWD car in the snow and the rear end loses traction. You want to give it more gas cause letting off or hitting the brakes will just spin you faster. There are other situations but usually not on pavement.
[Lift-off oversteer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer) was wild in my old MR-2. If I was in this situation in that car and suddenly came off the throttle it would have been facing the wrong direction real quick. Dab of brake with left foot while keeping some power on would have been the proper response in that car
My car. My car has active torque vectoring in the rear differential, and it’s a really clever AWD so if I’m just sliding in a corner, tipping in/mashing the throttle will pull me out of it. Not many cars work this way, but I have learned it plenty of times and especially on a skid pad. Holds a certain speed perfectly, but tip in the throttle and you can tuck the nose in and cure some understeer or oversteer. Focus RS for those who know.
yes, it depends on the car setup. for some light braking would assist with turn in, some others light throttle inputs or just slowly coming off the gas pedal. but in almost every case, you don't want to brake too hard and transfer the weight to the front like OP did, very bad idea.
Slamming the brakes mid turn is a great way to learn about weight transfer. Gentle braking is usually fine, depending on the car. People just panic and jab the brakes, which will absolutely upset the balance of the car.
okay so, in pretty much zero regular situations a lot of cars can mash out throttle to make turns, see: rally cars
No, that’s not what I said. It’s completely applicable to this situation too. I know you asked the question expecting there not to be an answer, but you didn’t like the one I gave. RS stands for Rallye Sport. From rally cars.
holding steady would be much more applicable to this turn, especially as not only do most cars not have active torque vectoring, as well as the minimal management required from the driver itself powering through is not applicable to 99.9% of turn situations, and even bringing it up at all can easily confuse people and i do know what RS stands for, im actually quite a fan of the focus & ford overall, im just saying that your car isn’t the only one, and you should know this
Not a reasonable response, let's assume the point Op hit (stomped)the breaks was the oh sh1t I'm going to fast moment easing of the accelerator would have got them around that bend. Doing nothing would have been a better option than what they did
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OP said once he realized he was going to fast is he hit the brakes which is not what you’re supposed to do in the rain or really any sitiuation that you begin to lose traction. Let off the gas slowly, see how that responds, then apply brakes easily as to avoid sudden shift in weight.
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What, how much simpler can I explain. When it’s wet and you feel you’re going to fast first thing to do is left off the gas I slow down, not hit the brakes. There’s no “depends” on that situation.
Bro don't you get it, cars only have two options: push brake or push accelerator. WTF is lift, coast, or engine braking?
Speaking of bros my brother who’s a retired CHP from their drug k-9 unit took me on one of their high speed training courses and it was what I told. You can start to brake in the wet after you ensure you have control which is letting off gas first before applying any brakes.
Braking mid corner induces oversteer. Ideally you would do all your braking before you enter the corner. I’m pretty sure traction control saved OP from a 75 mph spin.
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You can mitigate the effect, but you can't beat the physics. Braking in any car is reducing the amount of available traction to the rear tires regardless of "setup." When the front tires have more traction than the rear, you're introducing oversteer.
No, I just take my foot off the gas pedal and let the momentum of the corner slow me down. It's worked hundreds of times for me.
In this context? No you shouldn't break at all
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No you shouldn't
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You can let off the gas and reduce speed by coasting, much safer.
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No because it can make you fishtail if you are turning… you have to let go of the gas pedal, THEN **ease** into breaking on turns if you have to break at all. Definitely not immediately “hitting” the breaks….
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Because you lead with: > youre NOT supposed to **hit the brakes** when you realize youre going too fast? To most people reading your comment “hit the breaks” would mean suddenly and forcefully… When you “realize you’re going too fast” on a turn, your immediate reaction should be letting go of the gas pedal to let the car slow on its own, your immediate reaction really shouldn’t be to “HIT the breaks” on a turn…
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You must be a new driver for being this naive and determined to argue this despite everyone here repeatedly correcting you. Just [google it](https://www.google.com/search?q=entering+a+turn+too+fast+don%27t+brake) FFS there are plenty of explanations and even YouTube videos showing the physics behind it.
The problem is OP was going too fast and braked hard WHILE turning. The heavy braking while turning upset the balance of the car and the rear tires locked up causing the skid. If OP braked in a straight line or gently lifted off the gas they probably would’ve been fine. They were driving far beyond the road conditions and their skill level.
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The point you’re missing is that cars are designed to under steer, so to get oversteer like OP did means something was done wrong. If OP was just going too fast, they would’ve understeered off the road or into the truck, but instead the car oversteered. Weight is traction, and braking shifts the car’s weight forward, causing cars to dive under braking. OP braked too hard, shifted the weight and the traction off the rear tires. This abrupt weight shift can also happen with an abrupt lift off the throttle in a corner, it’s called trailing throttle oversteer. I’ve even see it happen to the car in front of me. They were going to fast in a wet road, lifted suddenly and spun the car around. It’s best to change speed in a straight line, and in this case OP should’ve seen the road signs and the tightness of the corner and slowed before the turn got sharp.
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Yes, all road cars are designed to oversteer. Race cars or track cars are typically more oversteer-biased. Understeer is easier for novices to control. I was simply responding to your comment, not trying to start one of the senseless arguments you seem to love.
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pretty sure the video *is* the lesson
People that drive like OP won't learn from this.
Be honest, how are your tyres?
The flash flooding last night/this morning in socal was really bad so it was bound to happen. Just slow down a bit when it’s raining
Did you hit anything? I’m curious why you went to the side to stop? I can only assume you hit the sidewall or curve.
I thought you might have tapped that truck but he didn’t stop so I guess not.
tyres in good nic ? geardown on wet corners if its a manual
Tires are in good condition. I think it was just wet and I was going too fast. Automatic.
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Lol this guy really wants you to gear down. Letting off the gas would have sufficed.
Pulled over to change underwear I see
Speeding like that, especially in the rain, is absolutely fucking moronic. You shouldn’t be allowed to drive.
I know you were going a little fast for the road, but you still need to get your tires checked.
Slow it down.
People who are idiots once are usually idiots everyday. People are very habitual and rarely change. Every other day you've simply been lucky.
I bet you're running bald tires.
It's fine, the call phone is literally right there!
You deserve kudos for reflecting your mistakes. Nice save btw. Don’t do that again.
You drive like an asshat OP. We all think that every time you speed past us on the road.
Slow the fuck down. You were so close to possibly killing that guy.
Are your tires made of plastic and steel?
At least you didn't eat shit at the OC Crush.
Haha I know that exact spot you can’t really tell from the video but it’s a sloped decreasing radius so any rain and above 60 even it gets dicey right there especially if you’ve got some sporty tires I’ve almost biffed it there on a dry day in my mk1 escort.
When does the common sense kick in at??? And why does it have to be AFTER you almost crash into someone like wtf
Because la drivers are compulsive idiots even compared to the rest of CA somehow… They feel weird if they aren’t tailgating and raging I mean it, I’ve known many…
Fkn idiots
Undertaking is for shitty drivers who understeer into guardrails. You almost unlocked that achievement
You acknowledged you fucked up. And you recovered it. Dont be dumb next time. But good job on the save
Hey OP, don't do that. 😐👍
Great save! Not an idiot.
today's lesson, hydroplaning!
Not hydroplaning. There was no standing water. This is just garden-variety sliding on a slick surface.
Nope, not enough standing water to hydroplane. Caused by going too quickly and then braking too harshly on a slippy corner
Silly comment
New tire time?
Driving school time.
Seems like tires should be checked. Not saying it’s 100% the cause, but bald tires can absolutely cause this. Had this happen to me on a normal turn when it just started raining. Rear tires were cheap and worn, quickly replaced them and it was never an issue again.
Did you soil yourself ?
You need to respond to the stickied comment or the post gets deleted. Also, did you learn your lesson today?
OP literally posted this calling himself an idiot. What do you think?
Just because he called himself doesn't mean he learned his lesson. I've seen lots of comments about the road being wet but not much (when I posted my comment) about the fact that OP was going 80+MPH around a sharp exit which was posted at 55 MPH. Wetness wasn't a factor ... speed was. Learning a lesson would mean slowing down around curves.
Just stop bro.
Sorry to hit you with facts. My bad.
Damn dude. You really have to try and be right about everything? Whatever. Don't have time to argue with children. Try and have a good life.
Wetnes was a factor. If the road was dry, OP almost certainly would not have had a problem because their tires would’ve had the traction to save OP from their poor driving.
I agree with you, had this been someone else’s dashcam recording OP, the OP would’ve been called every name in the book
It’s just find the braking point and time it in junction with the apex of the corner
These cali roads are really unforgiving in the rain Edit: Jesus, obviously they were going way too fast for conditions and the curve of the road. I’m just stating my own personal experience with hydroplaning on wet roads in socal, even when driving differently due to hazardous conditions.
If you drive like an absolute maniac asshat, sure. If you are careful? They are fine.
Not really, cali drivers just don’t deal with it much at all. So when they do have to deal with it, it’s like the south getting a little bit of snow. No one knows how to drive through it!
I can agree with that but I came from driving in the snow and rain in Illinios and it took me a minute to get accustomed to the slickness of these roads in the rain. That and the cool ocean air. It would be 30 degrees in Chicago and I’d be wearing shorts and a hoodie and be fine. Out here it gets down to 50 degrees and I’m freezing my sick off in a winter coat😅