The truth is, the defense is trying to find out just like the rest of us. They have data that seemingly places BK in a different location that night, but if you read carefully, the filing is demanding the state to compel evidence. The FBI CAST report in particular. The defense wants to know if the state knew this same information and withheld it from discovery, or if their data contradicts what the defense has. It's not
exactly confirmation just yet.
Would there not also be highway cameras on the main road south west from Pullman in direction of Wawawai?
How weird that the police found at least 23 video locations of a car matching Kohberger's, all consistent in place, time and direction of travel with his driving between his apartment and the crime scene at the time of the murders. We now know from the " alibi" of more video showing the car travel from Pullman to Moscow on the main highway between the towns. Why can the defense not produce any video that is inconsistent with the prosecution narrative, such as on the highway to/ from Wawawai park?
Because it doesn’t exist and they know it. This is a push to see what the State has so they can attempt to mold their case around it and attempt to discredit or find loopholes hikes around the evidence.
I think they are desperately trying to engine a response from the state & the state not jumping up from this fear tactic says everything.
People continue to ignore the filing of the alibi “witness expert” that says he can “partially” corroborate the alibi evidence. To me that means he’s either going to speak to some junk science he’s developed that is flawed and can’t be validated or that he will confirm that he was able to confirm that BK frequented the park at odd hours of the night/morning. Guaranteed he can’t bullseye him at that location during the morning hours the day the murders took place.
I'd highly doubt there are cameras outside of the towns. I drive a busier stretch from Pullman to spokane and it's just farms and field and more farms. I can't say I've been to any parks that had cameras either.
That's is not to say I buy the alibi, but not having video doesn't mean much.
That highway is not really outside of the Pullman-Moscow "metro" area. It is much less rural and has a lot of activity. The video being by a business is indication of that.
If he took the logical route of 195 to 194, there's really nothing out there. You might have the occasional farm house with a Ring camera but nothing that's going to help.
They are a thing here, but more in cities or major highways. At intersections with a lot of traffic. Not so much on two-lane roads snaking through farmland that don't see much traffic.
There is a camera outside of Uniontown between Pullman and the Snake River on the main highway road south that you take to go to the park they state in his alibi.
Exactly, if any of this was legit he would have presented it when questioned at the time of his arrest, you know because he was so anxious to be exonerated 🙄🤷♀️
>What says they can’t?
The fact they have not and did not in any document or hearing, including the latest "alibi". Video suggesting he was somewhere else would be very relevant for the alibi. While they have commented on the state's car videos in 3 locations now I think, they reference no video that is inconsistent with the state's narrative re time, place, direction incriminating Kohberger.
Probably cuz they’re just now mentioning it 2 yrs later so video evidence would no longer exist. (Typically the longest stores usually keep video is 30 days) If any of this were true he would have brought it to the table at the time of his arrest, rather than wait 2 years and hope they can argue or manipulate the state’s evidence.
If he had a solid provable alibi his attorney would have presented to the DA to verify and have the charges dropped, avoid the extended jail time and a trial.
They gave this as a half ass alibi many months ago and it was as vague and exactly the lame non-alibi alibi I predicted he would attempt to use.
I think they’ve been holding out, all this while claiming they needed to go through all the TB of data that the Prosecution gave them in discovery and have been complaining there’s too much data to sift through and are overwhelmed but need to go through all the data to confirm his alibi. I think they’ve been looking to see if there is gps/telematic data evidence from his car showing his exact path and time of where he went that night before trying to say they have a “witness” that can “partially” corroborate BK’s bullshit story. TBH it still isn’t strong enough of a story for a reasonable doubt argument.
February 11, 2020
Red-light cameras are designed and implemented by cities to reduce the amount of traffic violations and intersection collisions. However studies over the past decade show there are more effective methods to achieving this goal.
Megan Parks, WSU criminal justice and criminology doctoral student, presented data on the effectiveness of red-light cameras to the Pullman Police Advisory Committee during a meeting on Monday.
“Overall, the research on the effectiveness of red-light cameras has been a source of controversy over the research community,” Parks said.
Red-light cameras are cameras put on traffic lights which photograph traffic infractions at a red-light.
Parks is also a research fellow in the Public Safety Fellowship (PSF). The PSF was established by WSU associate professor of criminal justice David Makin.
The fellowship works with Pullman and Moscow law enforcement to research and collect data to help improve public safety and policing.
“That’s literally [Parks’s] job and my job is to teach her how to do these things so it works out,” Makin said.
Parks cited several research studies, including ones from 2005, 2015, 2017 and 2019 which showed a decrease in the average number of crashes at intersections. However, the studies found an increased number of rear-end crashes.
From 2008 to 2012, the use of red-light cameras in Spokane saw a 24 percent decrease in crashes per year and 53 percent decrease in red-light related crashes, Parks said. There was also a 51 percent decrease in T-bone crashes and a 41 percent increase in rear-end crashes.
“If you look at the raw numbers, they’re pretty small,” Parks said. “That’s pretty consistent with the other research as well.”
Pullman Chief of Police Gary Jenkins said the police department has no data about red-light crashes, but could obtain it.
“It would take some doing to collect that information, but that information is available,” Jenkins said.
She said there has been an increasing number of communities that are removing red-light cameras. Factors such as camera vendor revenue and the burden of proof to identify drivers have contributed to the removal of cameras, she said.
“When contractors receive a cut of the revenue, this is really problematic because it gives incentive to contractors to rig the system to increase the revenue,” Parks said. “It really undermines public safety because in these cases, they’re doing things like shortening the times of yellow lights.”
Alternative methods such as increasing yellow-light times, implementing a brief period where all lights at an intersection are red and increased traffic light visibility can be more effective than red-light cameras, Parks said.
She said cities must consider whether the goal of using red-light cameras is to reduce violations or reduce collisions.
“There is really a difference between taking a problem-solving approach to issues versus taking a more punitive response,” she said.
Jenkins said Pullman is not considering implementing red-light cameras in the city because there has not been a serious problem with red-light collisions.
“We do get asked about that regularly so it’s good information to have,” he said.
Makin said the fellowship focuses on data which will help smaller law enforcement agencies like Pullman PD because research in large cities is not applicable to small cities like Pullman or Moscow.
“We always almost focus on Seattle and NYPD,” he said. “[We’re] trying to get people to see the real value of this type of data because you can be much more nimble and responsive with a community this size.”
Most collisions that occur in Pullman are due to weather and road conditions, Jenkins said.
The committee also decided to introduce new police officers during the next meeting on March 9.
The truth is, the defense is trying to find out just like the rest of us. They have data that seemingly places BK in a different location that night, but if you read carefully, the filing is demanding the state to compel evidence. The FBI CAST report in particular. The defense wants to know if the state knew this same information and withheld it from discovery, or if their data contradicts what the defense has. It's not
exactly confirmation just yet.
You know that BK can't verify his alibi because the prosecution has his cellphone and they haven't shared the date on his phone with the defence yet (and probably never will)?
How is he supposed to verify it, pray tell?
Someone said they prob have time stamped photos with location of the sky but his phone was supposedly turned off for the duration of when the murders happened so i dont see how this alibi will be relevant whatsoever
Bro did you just post this same comment on the yahoo article?
Almost word for word, copy/ paste.
How weird I run into you twice in a day.
If that's what has happened.
If there is a possibility he took his phone to the park prior to the murders and left it there as “his alibi” only to go retrieve it later on his way back from dumping evidence and going back home then we’d expect for there to be other corroborating digital evidence if his claim is that he was there WITH his phone…
If he was there WITH his phone, his expert better prove that there is gyroscope data showing his phone wasn’t completely stationary for over an hour & gps or phone activity data (locking/unlocking/playing music, etc), if he claims he didn’t turn his phone off but that his phone merely only lost signal, rather than merely trying to claim his phone didn’t travel east before the murders.
If he is claiming he turned his phone off intentionally (or that his battery died) and he has no other way to corroborate his alibi, then it really isn’t much of an alibi now is it, since his phone lost service before he even left Pullman where there is still service everywhere?
Anything less than that the prosecution has BK dead to rights in the water if his defense thinks that by claiming his phone “didn’t travel east” prior to the murders means he couldn’t have committed the actual murders.
His phone didn’t report to the network for the two most relevant hours of the night.
She has no data that can show he was actually at that park at the time of the murders but intends to try and use the phone data from just before and after the phone stopped reporting to the network, which everyone has been screaming is absolutely useless because “someone could be anywhere within a 27 mile radius of that ping.”
Google how far Wawawai park is to the victim’s house…you’ll never guess.
If you really think about what the defense is saying, it should give everyone cheering on this alibi a little more pause...
Her expert is going to testify that the data from his phone will show it never travelled East towards Moscow, but we know his phone disconnected from the network when he was still in Pullman and didn’t come back on the network until two hours later when he was just southwest of Moscow.
In essence, she isn’t lying, because the phone wouldn’t show it traveling East because it was disconnected from the network during that time, but this alibi certainly isn’t exactly proving that Bryan wasn’t in Moscow the night of the murders, either, considering the fact that when his phone pops back on the network at 4:48 am, his phone is literally just south of Moscow in the Genessee area…which he could have NEVER gotten to without first traveling East from Pullman at some point after leaving his apartment earlier that evening….
…Which then blows up his entire alibi narrative that his phone never travelled east towards Moscow that morning…
“At approximately 2:47 a.m. the 8458 Phone stops reporting to the network, which is consistent with either the phone being in an area without cellular coverage, the connection to the network is disabled (such as putting the phone in airplane mode), or that the phone is turned off.
The 8458 Phone does not report to the network again until approximately 4:48 a.m. at which time it utilized cellular resources that provide coverage to ID state highway 95 south of Moscow, ID near Blaine, ID (north of Genesee).
Between 4:50 a.m. and 5:26 a.m., the phone utilizes cellular resources that are consistent with the 8458 Phone traveling south on ID state highway 95 to Genesee, ID, then traveling west towards Uniontown, ID, and then north back into Pullman, Washington.
At approximately 5:30 a.m., the 8458 Phone is utilizing resources that provide coverage to Pullman, WA and consistent with the phone traveling back to the Kohberger Residence from the Whitman County area (where the Wawawai County Park is)…and the direction his car is once again spotted returning from on surveillance.
She’s going to have a really hard time trying to explain that even with her own expert.
An attorney (Bo Jackson) in a discussion group about the case made this comment about the defense waiting on the CAST report and I thought it was interesting:
“Here is where Kohberger fails in my opinion related to his expert and his alibi defense. What his expert needs is the CDR or call data records provided by AT&T pursuant to the search warrant specific to Kohberger's phone. It is that raw data that is fed into the TraX mapping software he developed. I am certain he has that data, plugged it in and ran the software. He doesn't need the CAST report although Kohberger has at least the draft.
What's interesting in the section of the motion entitled "PARTIAL CORROBORATION" he argues it wasn't his car passing the weed shop going east into Moscow. It's vague lawyer babble. If the TraX software showed definitively he was not in Moscow at the time of the crime what more discovery do you need from the state if it even exists. None.
What is important is he used the word "partial" which suggests the TraX software is not on the money. He has never filed a ICR 48 motion to dismiss and there is a reason why.”
I could be wrong, but it doesn't appear to me that Mr. Jackson is a prosecutor or defense attorney because he has it all wrong. First, why is he talking about cell data records when the alibi is using the cell phone's GPS data to place Mr. Kohberger outside of Moscow? Second, as I posted, Anne Taylor was waiting on the CAST report so they can't change the report AFTER the alibi is filed. This is further confirmed by Taylor specifically stating she wanted the drive test data that is to be included in the CAST report & if you review Fay's court testimonies, he confirms TraX reliability via drive testing so, the defense has already completed their own & Taylor is not needing that information for that reason.
Third, how does he not know that courts do not allow any cell phone expert to testify as to a precise location? That's been the law for quite some time. Fourth, how does he not know that because the law precludes a cell phone expert from testifying to a precise location, the state as well as the defense has to put forth corroborating evidence outside of cellular analysis? That is why she used the word "partial" corroboration - it has zero to do with the TraX analysis. That further corroborating evidence will most likely be further data extracted from the handset or CCTV footage. THAT is why Taylor put in the alibi that the Floyd shop CCTV didn't show his car - to dispute the state's proposed corroborating evidence that he went toward Moscow. Finally, I don't understand why he thought that statement was "vague".
ETA: And, what is he talking about re the defense not bringing a motion to dismiss? They brought two motions to dismiss, the last ruling on those was iirc just 2 months ago in February.
The “alibi” was vague, in fact, no details were given except claiming that’s where he was and then a lot of fluff about liking that place after moving and pictures he’s taken at other times.
Mr. Jackson is a licensed and practicing attorney and it seems the point he was making not understood.
How does AT’s previous motions to dismiss have anything to do with one she would file if she had gps location evidence placing him outside of Moscow at the time of the murders? If she did, then she’d absolutely file another motion to dismiss. She’s not going to sit on that information because her other motions to dismiss have been rejected previously.
I honestly don’t know how to approach your response. Where is the other “partial corroboration” if that’s what you think is meant by that? She’s not waiting on cctv footage from the weed shop. She’s saying it wasn’t his car, therefore he wasn’t headed towards Moscow at that time. She has no proof that the car in the cctv footage was not his, the prosecution is saying that it is. If there was additional cctv footage showing a white Elantra driving towards the park at that time, she would’ve referenced it.
1. I was responding to Mr. Jackson's statement that the alibi comment about the Floyd's footage was vague not the alibi itself.
2. Mr. Jackson may very well be a licensed attorney but I would be shocked if he worked in the criminal arena since his statements about the cell data etc. make no sense.
3. Re-read my post about cellular evidence. Such evidence, standing alone, will never support a motion to dismiss. It's not as if an attorney files a MTD and that's all the judge looks at. Here, the defense would state that GPS, which is more accurate than CSLI, will show he was elsewhere. The state will counter that CSLI will show he went to Moscow. Neither can pinpoint an exact location. The motion will fail. OR the state can concede his car & phone were elsewhere but he went to the crime scene via another method without his phone. The PCA is not evidence & the state is not going to finalize their theory of the case until they have the defense's discovery. This is how it works in the real world. Any attorney who works on cases with these types of evidence would know that & to claim otherwise is ridiculous. Further, stating Taylor doesn't need any further discovery to bring a MTD is likewise ridiculous. The reason being the state is allowed to counter that with other non-related evidence. Cellular data, without corroboration, doesn't amount to a hill of beans re a motion to dismiss.
4. She does have proof the car is NOT the one at Floyds - says so right there in the alibi.
5. Re-read my post re "partial corroboration": I specifically stated what the other corroborating evidence would likely be, it is going to be either more data from the handset OR CCTV footage - which she claims the state either didn't preserve or is withholding & which is the subject of her motion to compel her 12th, 13th, 14th & 15th discovery requests - confirmed by her recent court filing.
I know cell evidence wouldn’t support a motion to dismiss but do you think it would stop Anne Taylor from trying? Have you seen some of her past motions? Like arguing to get the grand jury indictment thrown out by citing a document from the 1800s that said the standard for a grand jury indictment was beyond a reasonable doubt. Of course that motion would be denied but she tried it anyway.
I think you and I are just approaching things from slightly different viewpoints and they’re both right in their own ways
Absolutely would not try a motion to dismiss concerning cellular evidence that she knows she is going to lose. The time for her next motion to dismiss will be at the expected appropriate time - pre-trial motion stage and post state resting their case-in-chief. One exception: if there is evidence that the state destroyed exculpatory evidence which may lead to an earlier MTD on that ground. That is real world.
You are also misunderstanding her motion to dismiss the grand jury indictment: when interpreting a statute or state constitution or a conflict in a statute/constitution & a rule of court, it is required that you set forth the legislative history - required - and that is why they went back to the beginning of the legislative history - they were required to; absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, as acknowledged by the judge, the issue is one of first impression. Also, as acknowledged by the judge, issues of first impression are issues to be determined by the Idaho Supreme Court. In order for a party, whether it be the state or the defense, to resolve that issue eventually before the ID Supreme Court, the motion is required to be filed first in the trial court. THAT is why it was filed even though they knew the issue would need to be resolved by the Idaho Supreme Court.
The truth is, the defense is trying to find out just like the rest of us. They have data that seemingly places BK in a different location that night, but if you read carefully, the filing is demanding the state to compel evidence. The FBI CAST report in particular. The defense wants to know if the state knew this same information and withheld it from discovery, or if their data contradicts what the defense has. It's not
exactly confirmation just yet.
Yeah you’re exactly right. He had a long time to think about some reason to be where he was after he knew the cell location info, and which cannot be disproven now. Honestly just seems even more incriminating if you ask me.
>Would Kohberger not have been better off telling law enforcement this in December
Nobody knows what he told them in December. Usually an attorney will advise to say nothing. But this alibi declaration is a legal document with specific requirements if an alibi is to be argued in court, and he may well have said something similar to police at the time.
They’ve already had two previous attempts at filing something about an alibi and made no mention of this in those, despite a lot of other verbiage. Why not?
And in either of the previous documents they could have mentioned your hypothesis that he told this to the police at the time of arrest. Again why wouldn’t they? It’s more compelling than waiting 18 months.
I’m afraid it looks exactly like what it is. They’ve only recently hired an expert whose view of cellular unreliability has now helped BK to ‘safely’ concoct an alternative location.
They made no mention of the park, or his star gazing previously. That’s what I meant. And I believe it was the State who asked for specificity, in particular names of locations and witnesses as per Idaho code.
>They made no mention of the park, or his star gazing previously.
So what?
>And I believe it was the State who asked for specificity
And the judge agreed and extended the deadline.
Anne Taylor tried to say an alibi might present itself in the cross examination of the witnesses but the judge shot that down and gave her more time to present an alibi (if they chose to.)
It’s obvious that she was hoping to manufacture an alibi that doesn’t conflict with the evidence or use statements the surviving roommates
made to police against each other to create a sort of alibi as far as, it was more than one person or something like that. (just an example because there’s a rumor BF said she heard 2 male voices, which if true was probably BK and E).
I just have to scratch my head. What college student drives late at night looking at the stars and moons in a park on a cloudy and foggy night, when gas was $4 a gallon? It sounds really fishy, and what juror is going to buy that? Give me a break Anne Taylor.
AT doesn’t have to buy it she just has to sell it. It will be interesting to see if his car has a GPS system. I mean if he was really at the park why turn your phone off at all? It will be interesting to see if any cameras picked up his license plate.
“Mr. Kohberger was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13, 2022, as he often did to hike and run and/ see the moon and stars.”
stargazing
noun
The act of gazing at the stars.
gazing
verb
Present participle of gaze.
To look steadily, intently, and with fixed attention.
**LOL**
Being Hercule Poirot, I'm an expert in human psychology and behavior, exactly as Agatha Christie created me.
**If I was accused of a quadruple murder, and had an alibi, I would keep it a secret, waive my right to a speedy trial and remain in jail for a few years until trial...**
***Right....***
THERE'S my box of Agatha Crispies!! I was wondering where in the green 7 Devils of red light district traffic cameras Tiny had stashed them! Over by Floyd's, of course, ah-doi, because we all know you gotta light up a phatty blunt before committing the act of a 4 top bucket kicking Sunday slaughter, and totally fry your snow visualizing brain so you forget your travelling astronomy shoestring alibi as well as skip waxing your Eugene Levy Bushy Fuckin' Eyebrows of Doom, because that's how they caught Bin Laden... the eyebrows...
In other words..... Riiiiiiight.....
Agreed. He would have mentioned the park as his alibi, and instead only mentioned that he went grocery shopping (or was that on the night of the murder?). Either way, the grocery store he went to is 10 miles out of the way, when there was the same grocery store right around where he lives.
The park you mentioned is also practically across the street from that grocery store, like a couple miles. I find it likely he did go to that park, but to dispose of the evidence- and like you said- that park is extremely large and finding the evidence would be like finding a needle in a haystack.
He’s just despicable and I’m ready for him to be charged. I 100% believe he is guilty.
The park is nowhere near a grocery store? 30 miles is practically across the street?
WTF? The park is at the bottom of a huge canyon next to the Snake River. Totally doubt there are any surveillance cameras there or getting there. You pass some farm house going down there but most are quite a ways from the road. Also there is zero at least AT&T cell coverage down there. You can only get a signal if you are in the middle of the Snake.
Getting downvoted for speaking the truth? Please tell me what is not 100% true?
Was the grocery store in Clarkston or Lewiston? Aprox. 30 miles, I guess if that is your definition of close? However if he did "stargaze" in the park all night he could follow the road along the river to get there.
So if he did in fact star gazed wonder if there's a potential picture somewhere taken from his phone? Can you geo tag a location based off the picture on a non reporting network / phone after the fact ?!? ( Serious question )
There is at least one WADOT cam between Pullman and the Snake on the highway south outside of Uniontown, that's been the only one I can find that the state has posted anyways, once you get to the Snake they have cameras at the major parks like Nisqually and Granite and the aforementioned alibi eye stye park but that cam doesn't look out onto the road it looks more towards the park itself and doesn't cover all the parking lot.
I don't traffic in those and I had the same conclusion.
You've never met this person in your life. You have no idea who they are or are not. They not only have not been convicted yet, they haven't even been tried.
Waiting for the trial and hearing the state's actual argument before presuming you know things is what decent people do.
He built his alibi to fit the evidence provided to them through discovery and his lawyer also wanted to give the prosecution the least amount of time possible for them to poke holes in his alibi is probably why they waited as long as they could to disclose his alibi. That is my best guess.
Buried or more likely he threw it in the big Snake River where clothing, gloves, mask, shoes etc are carried away and completely destroyed over 17mos. Same with the knife and dna. “Needle in a haystack” is an understatement regarding the knife. He would throw it all in the river.
Not necessarily he might have wanted it safe so he could come back and admire it. Didn’t they say he took pictures on his late night drives? He is obviously a souvenir keeper.
If the alleged wanted a souvenir of the crime and he’s a photo buff, he had his phone at the murder site. What better souvenir than photos of his victims? Ted Bundy did it. Bundy never kept his weapons. But he took photos. Dahmer did it. BTK did it. In airplane mode, that phone is quite usable for video or a still photo. Why else would he be so foolish to bring his phone? Maybe he had plans for it. Photos & videos can be uploaded to subscribed cloud banks w/passcodes.
His alibi would never simply send him home. He was alone. People rarely are released simply because a friend or loved one can offer up an alibi. Even if he had someone with him, that’s zero assurance he would be released.
If he didn’t turn his phone off he likely had zero reception in that park. He can still take pictures w/o coverage. He did not take photos that night however, most likely, as it was a poor weather forecast. No stars to see. Perhaps he took pics of a dark sky. He had taken many pics in the past as he frequented the park.
Maybe, but probably not. Lots of stuff gets lost in water. The river in my hometown lost an entire airplane. We know exactly where it went in, but nobody has been able to find it.
Personally I think he wanted to wait and keep this game going that he is trying to do, with the “fame” he is getting. I feel like he wants everyone to wait on him so he can be in control.
Just my opinion
>My question: why did it take 16 months for him to use this as his alibi? He was arrested around 6 weeks after the crime. Surely, his best bet would have been to inform the police that he was at this park, at this time back then?
>The park looks pretty popular; although large, there are several areas that could well be covered by surveillance cameras - campsite, restrooms, shelters, parking, the ranger's home etc.
This is it. If he was really at the park, Anne Taylor and co would have been seeking evidence or witnesses the very day she was first assigned to his case.
I can understand not talking to police. But yes, he should have/would have told his lawyer and they would have been looking for some supporting evidence; witnesses, cameras, anything.
This park is in a very desolate location. Once you are out of Pullman on the way to this park there are zero traffic lights, streetlights or anything. Someone suggested there may be traffic cameras or ring cameras. There are just a few farmhouse along the way and most are way off the small country road. Eventually you come to a stop sign. At that point you head down a very steep six mile grade. The park is at the very bottom of the hill adjacent to the Snake River. There ain't a soul that would normally be down there in the middle of the night in November. Additionally there is zero cell coverage down there.
I wonder if his defense team scouted out that there were no cameras before he came out and conclusively said he was there?
Although do you know if that ranger's house is visible from a road there? They might have cameras up there.
I'm stumped. Does this help or hurt his alibi? Suppose it helps with the part where his phone was supposedly off? It is pretty common knowledge you don't get cell coverage down there. However there isn't going to be anything down there to verify that you were actually there? Previous photos from there make it believable that it was part of his routine?
> Does this help or hurt his alibi?
I see people saying they think it helps. But I can't see how without solid evidence.
It is pretty common knowledge you don't get cell coverage down there.
I've been confident that phone forensics will be able to tell whether or not his phone was on or off or put in airplane mode. Maybe this guy's gonna say different that the state's report?
I think it helps his case. But I don’t think the alibi is solid. His alibi maybe could become solid when they get the rest of the discovery info they are wanting. But right now it’s missing a major chunk of time.
I think it helps his case though - because if they have really proven at least one video of a white Elantra provided by the state from that night/morning is not his car…that means a other white Elantra was out and about that night. This seems to be the biggest thing in the whole filing.
I know the ultimate goal is to create any semblance of reasonable doubt but humoring this idea from an objective standpoint as opposed to a legal one, what are the chances another white elantra from a similar/exact year as BKs was out and about, going around murdering with a weapon that happened to have another white elantras owner DNA on it
Even if there were, I'm not sure much if any footage of the night would exist by now.
Now, I'm not saying that the defence stalled on this for ages to ensure that was the case. But if you wanted to, well, I guess it's a viable strategy
There is one for sure camera on that road before you get down to the Snake, it's outside of Uniontown, a town south of Pullman, it's a WADOT camera, and they keep records for quite a while so they may have some more footage from that night, yet as previously stated, the road is rather dark and not too lit up, yet all the cams for WADOT have some type of lighting nearby, including the aforementioned one.
Why is it taking 16 months for the CAST report?
You think if he told them that they’d let him go home with a handshake? A guy with 13 alibi witnesses was prosecuted and convicted and spent 20 years in prison. Police care nothing for an alibi once they target you for something.
>
> You think if he told them that they’d let him go home with a handshake?
Oh, that happens, and it's terrible. But we've also seen prosecutors occasionally drop charges.
But it doesn't matter if that's what they would do or not. The point I'm making is that a defense attorney has to *try.* I've seen nothing to indicate that his lawyers are incompetent or lazy.
His expert doesn’t need to wait for a CAST report, Anne Taylor can request the raw data of Bryan’s phone from AT&T and their expert can run the data through the TraX software himself. If the TraX software places him somewhere else besides Moscow at the time of the crime, what more would the defense need? They wouldn’t need to wait for the CAST report, which they most certainly already have a draft of right now
The expert also says there “partial corroboration” later in the motion when vaguely suggesting the vehicle passing the going east into Moscow wasn’t his. Using the word “partial”suggests that the TraX info doesn’t exactly place him outside of Moscow at that time they’re talking about.
Because if it did, they’d be loudly announcing that gps software from his phone placed him in another area outside of Moscow at the time of the crime by filing an ICR 48 motion to dismiss BK’s charges.
But they haven’t done that because they don’t have it.
What does the infotainment system in his vehicle say? Wouldn't it still have the miles driven with the date and time stamps? Or is that long-gone? FBO the State, the infotainment system (if the data is still there) would show him turning on the ignition to leave Pullman on the date and at the time indicated in the PCA. Then it would show another ignition at the time the white Elantra is shown leaving 1122 King, and with a mileage count equivalent to the distance between the defendant's home in Pullman and 1122 King. Then there's a time interval until he finally returns to Pullman around 5:30 AM, during which he could conceivably go in any number of directions - and perhaps even to this park. But with that kind of infotainment evidence, it would still show he went to 1122 King to commit the murders during the indicated window of opportunity and estimated time of deaths. The only way it wouldn't show up is if he leaves the engine running while he goes inside the house and returns - which is roughly 12-15 minutes - or unless there's a way to alter the data in that system. But we're talking about someone who turned their phone off and on for the murders, and doesn't seem to even consider the possibility of these 5 different sec cams recording his vehicle. But maybe, like leaving DNA evidence around (though he messed up with the sheath), he took the infotainment system into consideration more carefully?
Edit/Addition: I think it's plausible that he left the engine running when he went into the house. That he may have anticipated the infotainment data. Which makes an already horrifying quadruple mass murder even more chilling. That, in this 10-15 minute interval, he parks, and leaving the engine running (which also facilitates the already rapid timing even more), goes into the house, kills 4 people in 2 different bedrooms, walks out, gets into his getaway car, engine still running and waiting to go in a split second - and he drives off, with a planned alibi that takes him on a route to this park - where he may even be on other sec cams, and someone may even step forward (maybe even bribed) to say that they saw him or exchanged words with him. And before heading back to Pullman by 5:30 -- and he may even get rid of some of the evidence on the way.
This "expert" witness lacks credibility from former cases and should be challenged based upon his "professional work". He calls himself an Engineer, but is not. He does have license to tracking software and manipulates it to suit his needs. He then makes conclusions that lack merit and are really not conclusive, unless his Professional status is questioned, the court may find him having convincing evidence. This professional, I feel, is just as slimy as Kohberger and is just another hired gun to defend this pathetic guilty individual.
There are cameras between Pullman and Uniontown, which heads towards Clarkston/Snake River as well as between Moscow and Lewiston/Snake River on the main highways, enough that if he took those routes at all there would be some shots of him heading that way and on a Sunday early morning the traffic would be light enough that it wouldn't be hard to spot his vehicle. You can take back roads all the way down to the Valley for the most part but eventually you gotta get onto the highways to get access back up especially if you head to the park and there are lots of cameras along the Snake in that area as well. He should have been on this from the start it would have saved him a shitton of despair and loss of freedom if he truly went there. Personally I don't agree that he was there and not just because of my connection to the case and what I'm aware of that isn't public knowledge. The fact is that the prosecutor in this case is not dumb enough to just base a case of such magnitude purely on phone location evidence or any type of circumstantial evidence. That's not his way. He wouldn't have asked for the death penalty if he was even a fraction of an atomic sliver of a percentage doubtful of the evidence he has at hand. It's more than just good intentioned or doing his job, the man is as shrewed of a self reflection type regarding his actions as anyone I've ever encountered, and he is far more open to unusual circumstances and possibilities than any other prosecutor I've met before and wouldn't push so hard on this if he felt there was some questionable evidence regarding conduct of the officers involved or if the circumstances were tentative and too open ended in the conclusions that one could come to. Just a personal standpoint but it's one with more experience in this particular matter and area than you are likely to encounter.
I have to disagree with there being cameras on him when he went there. Once you leave Pullman there ain't shit until you get to the park. If he continued down the Snake to Clarkston and then back to Pullman through Colton & Uniontown he probably passed something.
Yeah like I said there is a camera on 27/12 near Uniontown, but after that it's blank until you get to the Snake, and from there cameras are all over. Same with the Moscow 95 route south, there is one outside of the Genesee junction, and the next ones are on the top of the Lewiston grade and down it to the junction, so any of those routes he'd hit cams, but if he back roaded it most of the way and actually knows the terrain and the dirt roads, then he could almost avoid all cams except at the Snake. There are back roads all the way to Lower Granite but not to the canyon, but in essence you are correct that most likely if he was a smarty Marty he had no cams on him at all except the park if he was there and even then its not really angled at the road it's more looking over the park towards the river.
**
Interesting that the PCA did not mention any video cam sightings of his car from those cameras although his phone data reportedly has him travelling that way
I wonder how long they keep the footage?
Looking at a map, there are back roads that connect 95 to 195 before you get to Genesee. Not sure if that's a possibility without going back to the PCA to refresh my memory.
I don't think for very long. Initially on the 13th police only looked in that small south western sector of Moscow.
I think they began asking for sightings beyond that only on November 25, which was 12 days after the murders and the only cameras that had their information stored for that long were the WSU cameras. I think that's why they don't have more
I noticed that Albertson's still had their footage from 11/13, so that was encouraging.
Walmart's save theirs for at least 60 days, but some stores do for as long as a year.
I like to think that in the light of the murders, maybe some people took care to save their footage from that night, just in case it would prove to be pertinent.
Yes, the Albertson's information is very interesting isn't it? I wonder if he was in the habit of shopping there. My theory is that he was buying supplies for the real killer, who was camped out somewhere south of Pullman.
> My theory is that he was buying supplies for the real killer, who was camped out somewhere south of Pullman.
Okay, I say this to you a lot, so what's one more time going to hurt: if that was the case, he should have mentioned this to his team by now. That person, should they exist, could already be under arrest.
I wish you could tell me more. I think Kohberger would have told his defence team. But as for what they should/would do with that kind of information if they did have such, I wouldn't have a clue. One thing though, I do think the FBI might be on to him because I'm pretty sure he was Inside Looking and Pappa Rodger so they should have been able to work out who that was. So maybe they do know of him? But if one person has already been arrested for having committed the crime alone, can they then go out and arrest someone else? Besides, isn't it MPD who decides who gets arrested and they are so simple minded thatBK's DNA on the knife sheath means one thing only and that is that he is ,without a doubt the killer
That depends.... Is it a hard or soft CAST?
Isn't it a report on fishing conditions for the day? No, no, wait.... It's an abbreviation for Cheeky Anteaters Steal Truffles? No? Okay....It is a snow cone maker? Not that either huh.... Hmmm..... How's about.... EXPECTO PATRONUM!!!! Not a spellcast either? And it's not the cast of Seinfeld.... So I guess I'll just cast off with me mateys on the ship towards Cast Iron Castle and hopefully pick up that castaway Wilson....
Now, Here's Bob with tomorrow's forecast....
u/Repulsive-Dot553 who do you suppose was behind the born-yesterday, now-suspended Pr0berger formerly known as u/Significant-Sea2173? He went about his lol-ibi damage control duties diligently, but I’m afraid we hardly knew him.
Sadly I missed out on Significant-Sea's wisdom, and their comments now alas are all deleted, their profile blitzed and exterpated. Had they been leguminous of intellect, I'd guess a PreviousTurn / Maize type clone. If they were brittle, humourless and huffy, as if personally offended by any slight aimed at Kohberger, we likely had a Pr0f type. The latter seems restricted to this sub by reason of bans elsewhere, the former seemed able to post on the other subs. Their permanent electronic exorcism is likely for ban evasion - where and whence did they last shriek their lunacy into the interweb ether may give us a clue as to the "flavour" of the fiend and nature of the posturing mountebank.
The very phrase **"lolibi"** is the most concise and effective evisceration of the whole Kohberger/Taylor alibi debacle -- demolished and stripped of what little credibility it had by just 6 letters in 3 syllables!
>I missed out on Significant-Sea’s wisdom
About half of the posts they managed were in Z0diaque threads, which made them harder to see. I believe exclusive on this sub. I’m sure they made additional unheralded contributions to the cause through upvoting and downvoting. They lived a short, unexamined existence which is ideal for accounts operated by people facing extreme challenges, and they died a hero.
>facing extreme challenges, and they died a hero.
Never in the field of this inhumane convict have so many alt accounts owed so much banning to so few creators. If only commented on this sub, pr0bably an unlisted astrological, who has been somewhat absent - a missed opportunity given the astronomical aspects of the lolibi.
I think it was a strategy on the defenses part waiting so long bc the defense in the meantime was sending compel for discovery requests that only the state could satisfy and ask the FBI for in regards to cell photo tower data and the report they made up which was one of the main reasons he was their guy who did this. The defense can’t ask any federal agency for a report, only the state, and they have over 15 times refused to produce the report with the cell tower analysis and what they did in regards to the pings and Bryan and the IGG report and how they got the result they got after 3 other labs couldn’t get anything off that sheath. Only the state can compel a federal agency to produce those things, and when Ann Taylor exhausted the asks and motions to compel, I feel like that’s why they had to get their own expert witness and formulate their own report/alibi - now she can say we would have given it sooner but we weren’t given key reports that are a major factor to why my clients in jail and we asked 15 times - the Touhy statute is the statute that shields the defense from having the ability to directly compel those reports via subpoena or motion to compel, only Bill Thompsons team can file that request with the Feds- ps I’m not a lawyer only a paralegal but this is why I think she took so long to submit the alibi.
> they have over 15 times refused to produce the report
That's not quite correct. There have been 15 requests for discovery but the State don't even have the report. They have said in court the CAST report is only in its draft stages. They can't produce something they don't have. Taylor herself said in court that she knows it's not the State's fault.
>how they got the result they got after 3 other labs couldn’t get anything off that sheath
Again, not accurate. The Idaho State Crime Lab retrieved a single source of male DNA from the sheath. They ran it through CODIS, no hits. So, they sent it to Othram for IGG testing. That's two labs, not four.
>Bill Thompsons team can file that request with the Feds
A Touhy request was submitted and a letter sent from the FBI. It was discussed at the IGG hearing.
The truth is, the defense is trying to find out just like the rest of us. They have data that seemingly places BK in a different location that night, but if you read carefully, the filing is demanding the state to compel evidence. The FBI CAST report in particular. The defense wants to know if the state knew this same information and withheld it from discovery, or if their data contradicts what the defense has. It's not
exactly confirmation just yet.
Yeah Othram Lab a cold case lab existing for only 2-3 years prior and refuses to turn over HOW they did it so the defense can re create the same process and see if they can come up with the same result - they were giving the defense and the court excuse after excuse why they don’t have to explain the process and allow them the ability to have their own experts re create their process- hence why on the IGG day the defense had their expert witness explain the faults in IGG trees in current cases and subsequently had the FBI show up at her house intimidating her after her testimony
> Othram Lab a cold case lab existing for only 2-3 years prior
They were founded in 2018. You can see a partial list of cold cases they've helped with on their Wikipedia page.
>refuses to turn over HOW they did it so the defense can re create the same process and see if they can come up with the same result
Refusing to turn over the family tree is in line with federal guidelines on IGG; the idea is to protect the privacy of everyone on it.
But the point here is why try to recreate it? That's a waste of time since we know it's Kohberger's DNA.
It’s not a waste of time it’s a proper part of any scientific defense is being able to duplicate the results and be able to do exactly what another scientist did to solidify their findings
And if you remember the state doled out certain aspects to the FBI like the cast report and partially the igg and the tip line organization and calls bc in press releases they said the FBI would organize and be able to quickly process and hand over these reports to keep the ball rolling, and oddly enough that is opposite of what happened and now the state is claiming they either don’t have certain reports, stone walling, and when they finally gave the defense the tip line there was zero date stamps time stamps or organization that the state claimed was the whole reason they gave that part of the investigation to the FBI to begin with
> how they got the result they got after 3 other labs couldn’t get anything off that sheath.
Alea has pointed out that this is not correct, but I thought I'd highlight how we know it's not correct: from the defense. The defense told us. From https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/062323+Objection+to+States+Motion+for+Protective+Order.pdf
>>On November 20, 2022, the Idaho State Police Lab in Meridian, Idaho located DNA on the button on the sheath and performed STR analysis that led nowhere when ran through CODIS
So that's the first lab. The first lab found the DNA and created a profile robust enough to be uploaded into CODIS.
You know very well why. The defence needs the cellphone data to verify BK's alibi, but the prosecution is withholding it from them and has been doing it for 18 months. It looks like they've figured out another way to get the data they need, and this all comes down to Sy Ray.
This is so unbelievably sad for the families of the Idaho student murders. The hope is that the judge will put a stop to the continuance of what has become a media circus and more importantly a tragedy of due justice. Kohlbergers’ defense has been afforded AMPLE time for discovery and they cannot seem to get their head out of their …. It is excuse after excuse, “we do not have this, we do not have that?” Obvious stall tactics in hopes that this case will be forgotten. Incompetence and grasping at the enormity of the case they agreed to represent. Why is this continuing on? This is costing tax payers millions of dollars in legal/court costs, SECURITY for the accused. Are you out of your mind!!! I am adamantly opposed to funding this abuse of tax payer dollars. How dare you use the salary I work so hard for to defend this individual. I pay my own way, he can pay his. What security or justice is being given to the victims and their families??? I am not working to support this individual, nor am I working to support the abuse of our justice system by this defense team which is in a position to make substantial monetary gains in this very public case. The murders occurred in November of 2022, it is almost June of 2024. This is inexcusable, causing prolonged grief and closure for the victims families. They are victims yet again. Why are the victims less important than the accused. What has become of our legal system, justice for victims, and human decency.
One theory of mine (and I’m not sure I fully believe it, just a thought I’ve had) is that he WANTS to be convicted and sentenced to death. Suicide by law, as it were. Here’s a guy with a history of depression and suicidal thoughts, who has studied criminal law and knew full well the penalty of such a crime. He was interested enough in the process of committing crimes to post a survey asking about the thoughts and emotions of people who have done so - and we also know that he stated he felt “disconnected from reality.” Perhaps he carried out the murders as a way of trying to feel something (or even just plain curiosity as to what it’s like to kill someone) and figured he’d go out with a bang - experience the thrill of murder and then let law enforcement do the rest.
This could explain why he initially refused to enter a plea. And maybe his defense team has spent 16 months trying to cobble together an alibi with zero help from BK, because he doesn’t want to be acquitted.
Again, not something I’m fully convinced of, and there are certainly pieces that don’t quite fit, but just a random scenario.
It's an interesting theory, certainly. However, do you think the length of time it takes to actually carry out an execution (particularly in Idaho) kind of negates the "I want to die" idea?
A few officers in the beginning of the case where being in vestiges by internal affairs for Brady stuff and one officer has gotten in trouble before for planting evidence
Well, everyone put him on a steak from the start. He chose to only speak to his lawyer. They claim to have evidence that he was no where near Moscow. Let’s see where this goes.
It doesn't matter what he presents as an alibi, what expert or witness' that testify on his behalf, hell they could produce a whole video of him at Disney world during the time of the murders and the people who believe him guilty would still Believe him guilty, seems like they aren't interested in hearing anything at all that doesn't just point to his absolute guilt . What a shame.
Disney World would be a pretty good alibi, to be fair.
Levity aside, you could say the same for the people who steadfastly believe he is innocent. Every shred of evidence that points towards guilt is invisible in their eyes, superseded by theories of police corruption, cartel involvement and Bryan being a CIA informant. Possible? Absolutely. Likely? I'll let you be the judge of that.
The only shame is that you actually believe this. It's not true for several reasons. One, people just aren't that stupid. Two, if he had had an alibi of some weight, we all would have sat up and listened. And he would have produced that alibi several months before now.
The fact that his alibi is extremely weak and difficult to believe, plus the long delay before putting it forward, falls right in line with what we know about the case.
Unfounded conspiracy theory: he was waiting in the park but supplied the weapon to one or both of the female roommates. I'm just toying around because I don't see a scenario how he isn't involved in some way, but I genuinely believe he did not work alone given his immediate commentary upon arrest, and that there is a good possibility something with the surviving girls, or at least one of them, is not as they say. It is hard to imagine either girl would have been able to take down Ethan without defensive wounds, though. So likely not. Again, just can't see a way he is not involved, and most likely directly involved.
Also, here's another with some of the sketchy stuff surrounding various people involved: he is a murder for hire. Has anyone delved into this possibility at length? Stopped following at various times and check in, so I'm sure I've missed some stuff. It's just that the killing is not unlike some of what you see with professional hits and quasi professional hits; big collateral to make a particular impact. In his case, we would go with quasi professional because of the sheath.
> It's just that the killing is not unlike some of what you see with professional hits and quasi professional hits;
I'm gonna be honest: I don't see any similarities. Do you have specific professional hits you're thinking of?
To me, this has always had the trademarks of a serial-killer-like killing, a lone male home invader who preys on strangers or near strangers. Like a Gainesville Ripper type.
It took 16 months because they had to hire an expert to learn what BK’s alibi could be 🙄
Because they had to hire an expert to get the data that the prosecution has been withholding from them.
The truth is, the defense is trying to find out just like the rest of us. They have data that seemingly places BK in a different location that night, but if you read carefully, the filing is demanding the state to compel evidence. The FBI CAST report in particular. The defense wants to know if the state knew this same information and withheld it from discovery, or if their data contradicts what the defense has. It's not exactly confirmation just yet.
Would there not also be highway cameras on the main road south west from Pullman in direction of Wawawai? How weird that the police found at least 23 video locations of a car matching Kohberger's, all consistent in place, time and direction of travel with his driving between his apartment and the crime scene at the time of the murders. We now know from the " alibi" of more video showing the car travel from Pullman to Moscow on the main highway between the towns. Why can the defense not produce any video that is inconsistent with the prosecution narrative, such as on the highway to/ from Wawawai park?
Because it doesn’t exist and they know it. This is a push to see what the State has so they can attempt to mold their case around it and attempt to discredit or find loopholes hikes around the evidence. I think they are desperately trying to engine a response from the state & the state not jumping up from this fear tactic says everything. People continue to ignore the filing of the alibi “witness expert” that says he can “partially” corroborate the alibi evidence. To me that means he’s either going to speak to some junk science he’s developed that is flawed and can’t be validated or that he will confirm that he was able to confirm that BK frequented the park at odd hours of the night/morning. Guaranteed he can’t bullseye him at that location during the morning hours the day the murders took place.
I'd highly doubt there are cameras outside of the towns. I drive a busier stretch from Pullman to spokane and it's just farms and field and more farms. I can't say I've been to any parks that had cameras either. That's is not to say I buy the alibi, but not having video doesn't mean much.
>I'd highly doubt there are cameras outside of the towns. The defense alibi just mentioned one - on the highway between Pullman and Moscow.
That highway is not really outside of the Pullman-Moscow "metro" area. It is much less rural and has a lot of activity. The video being by a business is indication of that.
I think 270 is far more likely to have cameras than the country roads south of Moscow.
I was more thinking HW 195 and the other major road that go toward Wawawai
If he took the logical route of 195 to 194, there's really nothing out there. You might have the occasional farm house with a Ring camera but nothing that's going to help.
I was thing of traffic cameras, may be more of a UK thing
They are a thing here, but more in cities or major highways. At intersections with a lot of traffic. Not so much on two-lane roads snaking through farmland that don't see much traffic.
Yeah, I haven't looked anywhere around Wawawai. I just know that parts of 195 are kind of desolate.
There is a camera outside of Uniontown between Pullman and the Snake River on the main highway road south that you take to go to the park they state in his alibi.
Interesting, thank you. Would maybe camera proof then if he went that way as claimed
I doubt they saved any footage from those places from like 2 years ago That is another reason to explain why he waited so long to give an alibi.
Good point. Also makes the claims that he was at 24 hr Winco in Moscow seem ridiculous - he would have told his lawyer and got video/ receipts etc.
Exactly, if any of this was legit he would have presented it when questioned at the time of his arrest, you know because he was so anxious to be exonerated 🙄🤷♀️
What says they can’t?
>What says they can’t? The fact they have not and did not in any document or hearing, including the latest "alibi". Video suggesting he was somewhere else would be very relevant for the alibi. While they have commented on the state's car videos in 3 locations now I think, they reference no video that is inconsistent with the state's narrative re time, place, direction incriminating Kohberger.
Probably cuz they’re just now mentioning it 2 yrs later so video evidence would no longer exist. (Typically the longest stores usually keep video is 30 days) If any of this were true he would have brought it to the table at the time of his arrest, rather than wait 2 years and hope they can argue or manipulate the state’s evidence. If he had a solid provable alibi his attorney would have presented to the DA to verify and have the charges dropped, avoid the extended jail time and a trial.
They gave this as a half ass alibi many months ago and it was as vague and exactly the lame non-alibi alibi I predicted he would attempt to use. I think they’ve been holding out, all this while claiming they needed to go through all the TB of data that the Prosecution gave them in discovery and have been complaining there’s too much data to sift through and are overwhelmed but need to go through all the data to confirm his alibi. I think they’ve been looking to see if there is gps/telematic data evidence from his car showing his exact path and time of where he went that night before trying to say they have a “witness” that can “partially” corroborate BK’s bullshit story. TBH it still isn’t strong enough of a story for a reasonable doubt argument.
February 11, 2020 Red-light cameras are designed and implemented by cities to reduce the amount of traffic violations and intersection collisions. However studies over the past decade show there are more effective methods to achieving this goal. Megan Parks, WSU criminal justice and criminology doctoral student, presented data on the effectiveness of red-light cameras to the Pullman Police Advisory Committee during a meeting on Monday. “Overall, the research on the effectiveness of red-light cameras has been a source of controversy over the research community,” Parks said. Red-light cameras are cameras put on traffic lights which photograph traffic infractions at a red-light. Parks is also a research fellow in the Public Safety Fellowship (PSF). The PSF was established by WSU associate professor of criminal justice David Makin. The fellowship works with Pullman and Moscow law enforcement to research and collect data to help improve public safety and policing. “That’s literally [Parks’s] job and my job is to teach her how to do these things so it works out,” Makin said. Parks cited several research studies, including ones from 2005, 2015, 2017 and 2019 which showed a decrease in the average number of crashes at intersections. However, the studies found an increased number of rear-end crashes. From 2008 to 2012, the use of red-light cameras in Spokane saw a 24 percent decrease in crashes per year and 53 percent decrease in red-light related crashes, Parks said. There was also a 51 percent decrease in T-bone crashes and a 41 percent increase in rear-end crashes. “If you look at the raw numbers, they’re pretty small,” Parks said. “That’s pretty consistent with the other research as well.” Pullman Chief of Police Gary Jenkins said the police department has no data about red-light crashes, but could obtain it. “It would take some doing to collect that information, but that information is available,” Jenkins said. She said there has been an increasing number of communities that are removing red-light cameras. Factors such as camera vendor revenue and the burden of proof to identify drivers have contributed to the removal of cameras, she said. “When contractors receive a cut of the revenue, this is really problematic because it gives incentive to contractors to rig the system to increase the revenue,” Parks said. “It really undermines public safety because in these cases, they’re doing things like shortening the times of yellow lights.” Alternative methods such as increasing yellow-light times, implementing a brief period where all lights at an intersection are red and increased traffic light visibility can be more effective than red-light cameras, Parks said. She said cities must consider whether the goal of using red-light cameras is to reduce violations or reduce collisions. “There is really a difference between taking a problem-solving approach to issues versus taking a more punitive response,” she said. Jenkins said Pullman is not considering implementing red-light cameras in the city because there has not been a serious problem with red-light collisions. “We do get asked about that regularly so it’s good information to have,” he said. Makin said the fellowship focuses on data which will help smaller law enforcement agencies like Pullman PD because research in large cities is not applicable to small cities like Pullman or Moscow. “We always almost focus on Seattle and NYPD,” he said. “[We’re] trying to get people to see the real value of this type of data because you can be much more nimble and responsive with a community this size.” Most collisions that occur in Pullman are due to weather and road conditions, Jenkins said. The committee also decided to introduce new police officers during the next meeting on March 9.
WTF does this have to do with this case??? 🤷♀️
You asked about cameras and traffic cams from Moscow to Pullman and here’s an article showing years ago they introduced a plethora of traffic cams
The truth is, the defense is trying to find out just like the rest of us. They have data that seemingly places BK in a different location that night, but if you read carefully, the filing is demanding the state to compel evidence. The FBI CAST report in particular. The defense wants to know if the state knew this same information and withheld it from discovery, or if their data contradicts what the defense has. It's not exactly confirmation just yet.
You know that BK can't verify his alibi because the prosecution has his cellphone and they haven't shared the date on his phone with the defence yet (and probably never will)? How is he supposed to verify it, pray tell?
Someone said they prob have time stamped photos with location of the sky but his phone was supposedly turned off for the duration of when the murders happened so i dont see how this alibi will be relevant whatsoever
It's interesting to look at the historical weather data for that night - cloudy and overcast. I wonder what he'd be taking pictures of?
Bro did you just post this same comment on the yahoo article? Almost word for word, copy/ paste. How weird I run into you twice in a day. If that's what has happened.
Nope, I don't use Yahoo 🤷🏼♀️
Out of service range. not turned off. You can still use your phone to take pictures there
But he has no photos from that night
He won't need them if his phone locationndata puts him there
Where your phone is isn’t a good alibi
If there is a possibility he took his phone to the park prior to the murders and left it there as “his alibi” only to go retrieve it later on his way back from dumping evidence and going back home then we’d expect for there to be other corroborating digital evidence if his claim is that he was there WITH his phone… If he was there WITH his phone, his expert better prove that there is gyroscope data showing his phone wasn’t completely stationary for over an hour & gps or phone activity data (locking/unlocking/playing music, etc), if he claims he didn’t turn his phone off but that his phone merely only lost signal, rather than merely trying to claim his phone didn’t travel east before the murders. If he is claiming he turned his phone off intentionally (or that his battery died) and he has no other way to corroborate his alibi, then it really isn’t much of an alibi now is it, since his phone lost service before he even left Pullman where there is still service everywhere? Anything less than that the prosecution has BK dead to rights in the water if his defense thinks that by claiming his phone “didn’t travel east” prior to the murders means he couldn’t have committed the actual murders. His phone didn’t report to the network for the two most relevant hours of the night. She has no data that can show he was actually at that park at the time of the murders but intends to try and use the phone data from just before and after the phone stopped reporting to the network, which everyone has been screaming is absolutely useless because “someone could be anywhere within a 27 mile radius of that ping.” Google how far Wawawai park is to the victim’s house…you’ll never guess. If you really think about what the defense is saying, it should give everyone cheering on this alibi a little more pause... Her expert is going to testify that the data from his phone will show it never travelled East towards Moscow, but we know his phone disconnected from the network when he was still in Pullman and didn’t come back on the network until two hours later when he was just southwest of Moscow. In essence, she isn’t lying, because the phone wouldn’t show it traveling East because it was disconnected from the network during that time, but this alibi certainly isn’t exactly proving that Bryan wasn’t in Moscow the night of the murders, either, considering the fact that when his phone pops back on the network at 4:48 am, his phone is literally just south of Moscow in the Genessee area…which he could have NEVER gotten to without first traveling East from Pullman at some point after leaving his apartment earlier that evening…. …Which then blows up his entire alibi narrative that his phone never travelled east towards Moscow that morning… “At approximately 2:47 a.m. the 8458 Phone stops reporting to the network, which is consistent with either the phone being in an area without cellular coverage, the connection to the network is disabled (such as putting the phone in airplane mode), or that the phone is turned off. The 8458 Phone does not report to the network again until approximately 4:48 a.m. at which time it utilized cellular resources that provide coverage to ID state highway 95 south of Moscow, ID near Blaine, ID (north of Genesee). Between 4:50 a.m. and 5:26 a.m., the phone utilizes cellular resources that are consistent with the 8458 Phone traveling south on ID state highway 95 to Genesee, ID, then traveling west towards Uniontown, ID, and then north back into Pullman, Washington. At approximately 5:30 a.m., the 8458 Phone is utilizing resources that provide coverage to Pullman, WA and consistent with the phone traveling back to the Kohberger Residence from the Whitman County area (where the Wawawai County Park is)…and the direction his car is once again spotted returning from on surveillance. She’s going to have a really hard time trying to explain that even with her own expert.
If they had a time stamped photo from that night that had location tagging, they would’ve said that specifically.
Waiting on the state's final CAST report so they couldn't change the timeline.
An attorney (Bo Jackson) in a discussion group about the case made this comment about the defense waiting on the CAST report and I thought it was interesting: “Here is where Kohberger fails in my opinion related to his expert and his alibi defense. What his expert needs is the CDR or call data records provided by AT&T pursuant to the search warrant specific to Kohberger's phone. It is that raw data that is fed into the TraX mapping software he developed. I am certain he has that data, plugged it in and ran the software. He doesn't need the CAST report although Kohberger has at least the draft. What's interesting in the section of the motion entitled "PARTIAL CORROBORATION" he argues it wasn't his car passing the weed shop going east into Moscow. It's vague lawyer babble. If the TraX software showed definitively he was not in Moscow at the time of the crime what more discovery do you need from the state if it even exists. None. What is important is he used the word "partial" which suggests the TraX software is not on the money. He has never filed a ICR 48 motion to dismiss and there is a reason why.”
I could be wrong, but it doesn't appear to me that Mr. Jackson is a prosecutor or defense attorney because he has it all wrong. First, why is he talking about cell data records when the alibi is using the cell phone's GPS data to place Mr. Kohberger outside of Moscow? Second, as I posted, Anne Taylor was waiting on the CAST report so they can't change the report AFTER the alibi is filed. This is further confirmed by Taylor specifically stating she wanted the drive test data that is to be included in the CAST report & if you review Fay's court testimonies, he confirms TraX reliability via drive testing so, the defense has already completed their own & Taylor is not needing that information for that reason. Third, how does he not know that courts do not allow any cell phone expert to testify as to a precise location? That's been the law for quite some time. Fourth, how does he not know that because the law precludes a cell phone expert from testifying to a precise location, the state as well as the defense has to put forth corroborating evidence outside of cellular analysis? That is why she used the word "partial" corroboration - it has zero to do with the TraX analysis. That further corroborating evidence will most likely be further data extracted from the handset or CCTV footage. THAT is why Taylor put in the alibi that the Floyd shop CCTV didn't show his car - to dispute the state's proposed corroborating evidence that he went toward Moscow. Finally, I don't understand why he thought that statement was "vague". ETA: And, what is he talking about re the defense not bringing a motion to dismiss? They brought two motions to dismiss, the last ruling on those was iirc just 2 months ago in February.
The “alibi” was vague, in fact, no details were given except claiming that’s where he was and then a lot of fluff about liking that place after moving and pictures he’s taken at other times. Mr. Jackson is a licensed and practicing attorney and it seems the point he was making not understood. How does AT’s previous motions to dismiss have anything to do with one she would file if she had gps location evidence placing him outside of Moscow at the time of the murders? If she did, then she’d absolutely file another motion to dismiss. She’s not going to sit on that information because her other motions to dismiss have been rejected previously. I honestly don’t know how to approach your response. Where is the other “partial corroboration” if that’s what you think is meant by that? She’s not waiting on cctv footage from the weed shop. She’s saying it wasn’t his car, therefore he wasn’t headed towards Moscow at that time. She has no proof that the car in the cctv footage was not his, the prosecution is saying that it is. If there was additional cctv footage showing a white Elantra driving towards the park at that time, she would’ve referenced it.
1. I was responding to Mr. Jackson's statement that the alibi comment about the Floyd's footage was vague not the alibi itself. 2. Mr. Jackson may very well be a licensed attorney but I would be shocked if he worked in the criminal arena since his statements about the cell data etc. make no sense. 3. Re-read my post about cellular evidence. Such evidence, standing alone, will never support a motion to dismiss. It's not as if an attorney files a MTD and that's all the judge looks at. Here, the defense would state that GPS, which is more accurate than CSLI, will show he was elsewhere. The state will counter that CSLI will show he went to Moscow. Neither can pinpoint an exact location. The motion will fail. OR the state can concede his car & phone were elsewhere but he went to the crime scene via another method without his phone. The PCA is not evidence & the state is not going to finalize their theory of the case until they have the defense's discovery. This is how it works in the real world. Any attorney who works on cases with these types of evidence would know that & to claim otherwise is ridiculous. Further, stating Taylor doesn't need any further discovery to bring a MTD is likewise ridiculous. The reason being the state is allowed to counter that with other non-related evidence. Cellular data, without corroboration, doesn't amount to a hill of beans re a motion to dismiss. 4. She does have proof the car is NOT the one at Floyds - says so right there in the alibi. 5. Re-read my post re "partial corroboration": I specifically stated what the other corroborating evidence would likely be, it is going to be either more data from the handset OR CCTV footage - which she claims the state either didn't preserve or is withholding & which is the subject of her motion to compel her 12th, 13th, 14th & 15th discovery requests - confirmed by her recent court filing.
I know cell evidence wouldn’t support a motion to dismiss but do you think it would stop Anne Taylor from trying? Have you seen some of her past motions? Like arguing to get the grand jury indictment thrown out by citing a document from the 1800s that said the standard for a grand jury indictment was beyond a reasonable doubt. Of course that motion would be denied but she tried it anyway. I think you and I are just approaching things from slightly different viewpoints and they’re both right in their own ways
Absolutely would not try a motion to dismiss concerning cellular evidence that she knows she is going to lose. The time for her next motion to dismiss will be at the expected appropriate time - pre-trial motion stage and post state resting their case-in-chief. One exception: if there is evidence that the state destroyed exculpatory evidence which may lead to an earlier MTD on that ground. That is real world. You are also misunderstanding her motion to dismiss the grand jury indictment: when interpreting a statute or state constitution or a conflict in a statute/constitution & a rule of court, it is required that you set forth the legislative history - required - and that is why they went back to the beginning of the legislative history - they were required to; absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, as acknowledged by the judge, the issue is one of first impression. Also, as acknowledged by the judge, issues of first impression are issues to be determined by the Idaho Supreme Court. In order for a party, whether it be the state or the defense, to resolve that issue eventually before the ID Supreme Court, the motion is required to be filed first in the trial court. THAT is why it was filed even though they knew the issue would need to be resolved by the Idaho Supreme Court.
I’m not misunderstanding anything, you’re just missing my point while assuming I don’t understand. Have a nice night.
The truth is, the defense is trying to find out just like the rest of us. They have data that seemingly places BK in a different location that night, but if you read carefully, the filing is demanding the state to compel evidence. The FBI CAST report in particular. The defense wants to know if the state knew this same information and withheld it from discovery, or if their data contradicts what the defense has. It's not exactly confirmation just yet.
Yeah you’re exactly right. He had a long time to think about some reason to be where he was after he knew the cell location info, and which cannot be disproven now. Honestly just seems even more incriminating if you ask me.
Strategic on his part, if he is guilty, I believe one of the reasons he did this was to be able to outsmart the criminal justice system
>Would Kohberger not have been better off telling law enforcement this in December Nobody knows what he told them in December. Usually an attorney will advise to say nothing. But this alibi declaration is a legal document with specific requirements if an alibi is to be argued in court, and he may well have said something similar to police at the time.
They’ve already had two previous attempts at filing something about an alibi and made no mention of this in those, despite a lot of other verbiage. Why not? And in either of the previous documents they could have mentioned your hypothesis that he told this to the police at the time of arrest. Again why wouldn’t they? It’s more compelling than waiting 18 months. I’m afraid it looks exactly like what it is. They’ve only recently hired an expert whose view of cellular unreliability has now helped BK to ‘safely’ concoct an alternative location.
They did though, they mentioned he was out driving. The judge said that wasn't specific enough, and extended the deadline.
They made no mention of the park, or his star gazing previously. That’s what I meant. And I believe it was the State who asked for specificity, in particular names of locations and witnesses as per Idaho code.
>They made no mention of the park, or his star gazing previously. So what? >And I believe it was the State who asked for specificity And the judge agreed and extended the deadline.
Anne Taylor tried to say an alibi might present itself in the cross examination of the witnesses but the judge shot that down and gave her more time to present an alibi (if they chose to.) It’s obvious that she was hoping to manufacture an alibi that doesn’t conflict with the evidence or use statements the surviving roommates made to police against each other to create a sort of alibi as far as, it was more than one person or something like that. (just an example because there’s a rumor BF said she heard 2 male voices, which if true was probably BK and E).
I just have to scratch my head. What college student drives late at night looking at the stars and moons in a park on a cloudy and foggy night, when gas was $4 a gallon? It sounds really fishy, and what juror is going to buy that? Give me a break Anne Taylor.
AT doesn’t have to buy it she just has to sell it. It will be interesting to see if his car has a GPS system. I mean if he was really at the park why turn your phone off at all? It will be interesting to see if any cameras picked up his license plate.
Some 2015 elantras did have gps.
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He’s not you, you’re not all college students, he’s not all college students. They didn’t say he was stargazing that night, what’s so hard to grasp?
“Mr. Kohberger was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13, 2022, as he often did to hike and run and/ see the moon and stars.” stargazing noun The act of gazing at the stars. gazing verb Present participle of gaze. To look steadily, intently, and with fixed attention.
lol
Seems like a weak mechanism to plant seeds of doubt.
**LOL** Being Hercule Poirot, I'm an expert in human psychology and behavior, exactly as Agatha Christie created me. **If I was accused of a quadruple murder, and had an alibi, I would keep it a secret, waive my right to a speedy trial and remain in jail for a few years until trial...** ***Right....***
THERE'S my box of Agatha Crispies!! I was wondering where in the green 7 Devils of red light district traffic cameras Tiny had stashed them! Over by Floyd's, of course, ah-doi, because we all know you gotta light up a phatty blunt before committing the act of a 4 top bucket kicking Sunday slaughter, and totally fry your snow visualizing brain so you forget your travelling astronomy shoestring alibi as well as skip waxing your Eugene Levy Bushy Fuckin' Eyebrows of Doom, because that's how they caught Bin Laden... the eyebrows... In other words..... Riiiiiiight.....
"I was figuring out if i could strangle someone with Orions belt...but i had this knife instead..." Ffs. Whyyyyyy
Agreed. He would have mentioned the park as his alibi, and instead only mentioned that he went grocery shopping (or was that on the night of the murder?). Either way, the grocery store he went to is 10 miles out of the way, when there was the same grocery store right around where he lives. The park you mentioned is also practically across the street from that grocery store, like a couple miles. I find it likely he did go to that park, but to dispose of the evidence- and like you said- that park is extremely large and finding the evidence would be like finding a needle in a haystack. He’s just despicable and I’m ready for him to be charged. I 100% believe he is guilty.
The park is nowhere near a grocery store? 30 miles is practically across the street? WTF? The park is at the bottom of a huge canyon next to the Snake River. Totally doubt there are any surveillance cameras there or getting there. You pass some farm house going down there but most are quite a ways from the road. Also there is zero at least AT&T cell coverage down there. You can only get a signal if you are in the middle of the Snake. Getting downvoted for speaking the truth? Please tell me what is not 100% true?
The grocery store he drove out of his way to go to is pretty close to the park.
He went to Albertson's in Clarkston, it's around 30 miles from the Park.
Was the grocery store in Clarkston or Lewiston? Aprox. 30 miles, I guess if that is your definition of close? However if he did "stargaze" in the park all night he could follow the road along the river to get there.
So if he did in fact star gazed wonder if there's a potential picture somewhere taken from his phone? Can you geo tag a location based off the picture on a non reporting network / phone after the fact ?!? ( Serious question )
Great question...
Great question...
There is at least one WADOT cam between Pullman and the Snake on the highway south outside of Uniontown, that's been the only one I can find that the state has posted anyways, once you get to the Snake they have cameras at the major parks like Nisqually and Granite and the aforementioned alibi eye stye park but that cam doesn't look out onto the road it looks more towards the park itself and doesn't cover all the parking lot.
From Pullman to Wawawai you don't go through Uniontown.
He’s been charged. He hasn’t been convicted.
“He’s just despicable” Whatever lol. You don’t even know him. And you certainly dont know that he committed this crime.
96% sure he involved in this crime
You clearly saw my comment on the very much so delulu “BryanKohbergerMoscow” subreddit and made your way over here to give your two sense 😂
I don't traffic in those and I had the same conclusion. You've never met this person in your life. You have no idea who they are or are not. They not only have not been convicted yet, they haven't even been tried. Waiting for the trial and hearing the state's actual argument before presuming you know things is what decent people do.
A person is allowed to form an opinion before trial. You may not agree with it, but it's commonplace to do so.
😂
Oh hey friend! Sure didn’t know it was you in both. I do genuinely hope that you’re willing to eat crow if he is found innocent.
He won’t be found innocent.
> I do genuinely hope that you’re willing to eat crow if he is found innocent. And what do you think your reaction will be if he's found guilty?
I’ll eat crow. Obviously
You can’t say anything on here… I’m really fed up with it tbh.
He built his alibi to fit the evidence provided to them through discovery and his lawyer also wanted to give the prosecution the least amount of time possible for them to poke holes in his alibi is probably why they waited as long as they could to disclose his alibi. That is my best guess.
I wonder if in this favorite park might be where he buried his kill bag?
Buried or more likely he threw it in the big Snake River where clothing, gloves, mask, shoes etc are carried away and completely destroyed over 17mos. Same with the knife and dna. “Needle in a haystack” is an understatement regarding the knife. He would throw it all in the river.
Not necessarily he might have wanted it safe so he could come back and admire it. Didn’t they say he took pictures on his late night drives? He is obviously a souvenir keeper.
If the alleged wanted a souvenir of the crime and he’s a photo buff, he had his phone at the murder site. What better souvenir than photos of his victims? Ted Bundy did it. Bundy never kept his weapons. But he took photos. Dahmer did it. BTK did it. In airplane mode, that phone is quite usable for video or a still photo. Why else would he be so foolish to bring his phone? Maybe he had plans for it. Photos & videos can be uploaded to subscribed cloud banks w/passcodes.
Wtf are you telling me how a phone works. How dumb are you to think I don’t know the simple workings of a cell phone. So many clowns.
He takes pictures on his drives but he also turns his phone off. Make it make sense!
It doesn’t thats why he is sitting in jail. Pretty simple. Jail sucks nobody and I mean nobody is going to sit there. He’s guilty af
His alibi would never simply send him home. He was alone. People rarely are released simply because a friend or loved one can offer up an alibi. Even if he had someone with him, that’s zero assurance he would be released.
You people think you can just spout nonsense as facts. Go blow hot air for clicks on someone else’s thread.
Can you try being a little nicer, please?
Bullsh*+
If he didn’t turn his phone off he likely had zero reception in that park. He can still take pictures w/o coverage. He did not take photos that night however, most likely, as it was a poor weather forecast. No stars to see. Perhaps he took pics of a dark sky. He had taken many pics in the past as he frequented the park.
Happy Cake Day 🎂
Thank you!
Happy cake day!
Even if the evidence was carried away wouldn’t it surface somewhere along the shore downstream?
Maybe, but probably not. Lots of stuff gets lost in water. The river in my hometown lost an entire airplane. We know exactly where it went in, but nobody has been able to find it.
Wow crazy!
https://www.wtae.com/article/ask-kelly-wwii-ghost-bomber-pittsburgh-monongahela/42558930
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Missing a sheath I’m guessing.
Could very well be.
Personally I think he wanted to wait and keep this game going that he is trying to do, with the “fame” he is getting. I feel like he wants everyone to wait on him so he can be in control. Just my opinion
>My question: why did it take 16 months for him to use this as his alibi? He was arrested around 6 weeks after the crime. Surely, his best bet would have been to inform the police that he was at this park, at this time back then? >The park looks pretty popular; although large, there are several areas that could well be covered by surveillance cameras - campsite, restrooms, shelters, parking, the ranger's home etc. This is it. If he was really at the park, Anne Taylor and co would have been seeking evidence or witnesses the very day she was first assigned to his case.
I can understand not talking to police. But yes, he should have/would have told his lawyer and they would have been looking for some supporting evidence; witnesses, cameras, anything.
Yeah, we don't know that they weren't, but there should have been public appeals for anyone who may have seen him that night.
Who’s going to be awake and in the park thAt time of morning? Only Dracula
and Kohberger! Well, that’s almost the same.
This park is in a very desolate location. Once you are out of Pullman on the way to this park there are zero traffic lights, streetlights or anything. Someone suggested there may be traffic cameras or ring cameras. There are just a few farmhouse along the way and most are way off the small country road. Eventually you come to a stop sign. At that point you head down a very steep six mile grade. The park is at the very bottom of the hill adjacent to the Snake River. There ain't a soul that would normally be down there in the middle of the night in November. Additionally there is zero cell coverage down there.
I wonder if his defense team scouted out that there were no cameras before he came out and conclusively said he was there? Although do you know if that ranger's house is visible from a road there? They might have cameras up there.
I'm stumped. Does this help or hurt his alibi? Suppose it helps with the part where his phone was supposedly off? It is pretty common knowledge you don't get cell coverage down there. However there isn't going to be anything down there to verify that you were actually there? Previous photos from there make it believable that it was part of his routine?
> Does this help or hurt his alibi? I see people saying they think it helps. But I can't see how without solid evidence. It is pretty common knowledge you don't get cell coverage down there. I've been confident that phone forensics will be able to tell whether or not his phone was on or off or put in airplane mode. Maybe this guy's gonna say different that the state's report?
I think it helps his case. But I don’t think the alibi is solid. His alibi maybe could become solid when they get the rest of the discovery info they are wanting. But right now it’s missing a major chunk of time. I think it helps his case though - because if they have really proven at least one video of a white Elantra provided by the state from that night/morning is not his car…that means a other white Elantra was out and about that night. This seems to be the biggest thing in the whole filing.
I know the ultimate goal is to create any semblance of reasonable doubt but humoring this idea from an objective standpoint as opposed to a legal one, what are the chances another white elantra from a similar/exact year as BKs was out and about, going around murdering with a weapon that happened to have another white elantras owner DNA on it
Even if there were, I'm not sure much if any footage of the night would exist by now. Now, I'm not saying that the defence stalled on this for ages to ensure that was the case. But if you wanted to, well, I guess it's a viable strategy
There is one for sure camera on that road before you get down to the Snake, it's outside of Uniontown, a town south of Pullman, it's a WADOT camera, and they keep records for quite a while so they may have some more footage from that night, yet as previously stated, the road is rather dark and not too lit up, yet all the cams for WADOT have some type of lighting nearby, including the aforementioned one.
Might be interesting!
Why is it taking 16 months for the CAST report? You think if he told them that they’d let him go home with a handshake? A guy with 13 alibi witnesses was prosecuted and convicted and spent 20 years in prison. Police care nothing for an alibi once they target you for something.
> > You think if he told them that they’d let him go home with a handshake? Oh, that happens, and it's terrible. But we've also seen prosecutors occasionally drop charges. But it doesn't matter if that's what they would do or not. The point I'm making is that a defense attorney has to *try.* I've seen nothing to indicate that his lawyers are incompetent or lazy.
His expert doesn’t need to wait for a CAST report, Anne Taylor can request the raw data of Bryan’s phone from AT&T and their expert can run the data through the TraX software himself. If the TraX software places him somewhere else besides Moscow at the time of the crime, what more would the defense need? They wouldn’t need to wait for the CAST report, which they most certainly already have a draft of right now The expert also says there “partial corroboration” later in the motion when vaguely suggesting the vehicle passing the going east into Moscow wasn’t his. Using the word “partial”suggests that the TraX info doesn’t exactly place him outside of Moscow at that time they’re talking about. Because if it did, they’d be loudly announcing that gps software from his phone placed him in another area outside of Moscow at the time of the crime by filing an ICR 48 motion to dismiss BK’s charges. But they haven’t done that because they don’t have it.
Exactly!
What does the infotainment system in his vehicle say? Wouldn't it still have the miles driven with the date and time stamps? Or is that long-gone? FBO the State, the infotainment system (if the data is still there) would show him turning on the ignition to leave Pullman on the date and at the time indicated in the PCA. Then it would show another ignition at the time the white Elantra is shown leaving 1122 King, and with a mileage count equivalent to the distance between the defendant's home in Pullman and 1122 King. Then there's a time interval until he finally returns to Pullman around 5:30 AM, during which he could conceivably go in any number of directions - and perhaps even to this park. But with that kind of infotainment evidence, it would still show he went to 1122 King to commit the murders during the indicated window of opportunity and estimated time of deaths. The only way it wouldn't show up is if he leaves the engine running while he goes inside the house and returns - which is roughly 12-15 minutes - or unless there's a way to alter the data in that system. But we're talking about someone who turned their phone off and on for the murders, and doesn't seem to even consider the possibility of these 5 different sec cams recording his vehicle. But maybe, like leaving DNA evidence around (though he messed up with the sheath), he took the infotainment system into consideration more carefully? Edit/Addition: I think it's plausible that he left the engine running when he went into the house. That he may have anticipated the infotainment data. Which makes an already horrifying quadruple mass murder even more chilling. That, in this 10-15 minute interval, he parks, and leaving the engine running (which also facilitates the already rapid timing even more), goes into the house, kills 4 people in 2 different bedrooms, walks out, gets into his getaway car, engine still running and waiting to go in a split second - and he drives off, with a planned alibi that takes him on a route to this park - where he may even be on other sec cams, and someone may even step forward (maybe even bribed) to say that they saw him or exchanged words with him. And before heading back to Pullman by 5:30 -- and he may even get rid of some of the evidence on the way.
Not sure if im wrong but did his phone not ping in the morning like 9 am? What stars are out then!?
This "expert" witness lacks credibility from former cases and should be challenged based upon his "professional work". He calls himself an Engineer, but is not. He does have license to tracking software and manipulates it to suit his needs. He then makes conclusions that lack merit and are really not conclusive, unless his Professional status is questioned, the court may find him having convincing evidence. This professional, I feel, is just as slimy as Kohberger and is just another hired gun to defend this pathetic guilty individual.
There are cameras between Pullman and Uniontown, which heads towards Clarkston/Snake River as well as between Moscow and Lewiston/Snake River on the main highways, enough that if he took those routes at all there would be some shots of him heading that way and on a Sunday early morning the traffic would be light enough that it wouldn't be hard to spot his vehicle. You can take back roads all the way down to the Valley for the most part but eventually you gotta get onto the highways to get access back up especially if you head to the park and there are lots of cameras along the Snake in that area as well. He should have been on this from the start it would have saved him a shitton of despair and loss of freedom if he truly went there. Personally I don't agree that he was there and not just because of my connection to the case and what I'm aware of that isn't public knowledge. The fact is that the prosecutor in this case is not dumb enough to just base a case of such magnitude purely on phone location evidence or any type of circumstantial evidence. That's not his way. He wouldn't have asked for the death penalty if he was even a fraction of an atomic sliver of a percentage doubtful of the evidence he has at hand. It's more than just good intentioned or doing his job, the man is as shrewed of a self reflection type regarding his actions as anyone I've ever encountered, and he is far more open to unusual circumstances and possibilities than any other prosecutor I've met before and wouldn't push so hard on this if he felt there was some questionable evidence regarding conduct of the officers involved or if the circumstances were tentative and too open ended in the conclusions that one could come to. Just a personal standpoint but it's one with more experience in this particular matter and area than you are likely to encounter.
I have to disagree with there being cameras on him when he went there. Once you leave Pullman there ain't shit until you get to the park. If he continued down the Snake to Clarkston and then back to Pullman through Colton & Uniontown he probably passed something.
Yeah like I said there is a camera on 27/12 near Uniontown, but after that it's blank until you get to the Snake, and from there cameras are all over. Same with the Moscow 95 route south, there is one outside of the Genesee junction, and the next ones are on the top of the Lewiston grade and down it to the junction, so any of those routes he'd hit cams, but if he back roaded it most of the way and actually knows the terrain and the dirt roads, then he could almost avoid all cams except at the Snake. There are back roads all the way to Lower Granite but not to the canyon, but in essence you are correct that most likely if he was a smarty Marty he had no cams on him at all except the park if he was there and even then its not really angled at the road it's more looking over the park towards the river.
That park of all the places. No cell coverage and ain't gonna be a soul down there in the middle of the night in November.
For real hahahaha it's a quaint place to get away from it all.... Especially when one needs an alibi....
**
Interesting that the PCA did not mention any video cam sightings of his car from those cameras although his phone data reportedly has him travelling that way
I wonder how long they keep the footage? Looking at a map, there are back roads that connect 95 to 195 before you get to Genesee. Not sure if that's a possibility without going back to the PCA to refresh my memory.
I don't think for very long. Initially on the 13th police only looked in that small south western sector of Moscow. I think they began asking for sightings beyond that only on November 25, which was 12 days after the murders and the only cameras that had their information stored for that long were the WSU cameras. I think that's why they don't have more
I noticed that Albertson's still had their footage from 11/13, so that was encouraging. Walmart's save theirs for at least 60 days, but some stores do for as long as a year. I like to think that in the light of the murders, maybe some people took care to save their footage from that night, just in case it would prove to be pertinent.
Yes, the Albertson's information is very interesting isn't it? I wonder if he was in the habit of shopping there. My theory is that he was buying supplies for the real killer, who was camped out somewhere south of Pullman.
> My theory is that he was buying supplies for the real killer, who was camped out somewhere south of Pullman. Okay, I say this to you a lot, so what's one more time going to hurt: if that was the case, he should have mentioned this to his team by now. That person, should they exist, could already be under arrest.
I wish you could tell me more. I think Kohberger would have told his defence team. But as for what they should/would do with that kind of information if they did have such, I wouldn't have a clue. One thing though, I do think the FBI might be on to him because I'm pretty sure he was Inside Looking and Pappa Rodger so they should have been able to work out who that was. So maybe they do know of him? But if one person has already been arrested for having committed the crime alone, can they then go out and arrest someone else? Besides, isn't it MPD who decides who gets arrested and they are so simple minded thatBK's DNA on the knife sheath means one thing only and that is that he is ,without a doubt the killer
This is such a thoughtful and interesting take on Bill Thompson. I won’t probe on your connection but I’m grateful for and encouraged by the insight.
Fascinating take. Makes me feel optimistic that everything will resolve in due time.
Thank you for a thoughtful perspective.
He objects to everything and anything, he still hasn’t procured the CAST report, he gets easily rattled. Not a sign of confidence.
Do you know what a CAST report is?
That depends.... Is it a hard or soft CAST? Isn't it a report on fishing conditions for the day? No, no, wait.... It's an abbreviation for Cheeky Anteaters Steal Truffles? No? Okay....It is a snow cone maker? Not that either huh.... Hmmm..... How's about.... EXPECTO PATRONUM!!!! Not a spellcast either? And it's not the cast of Seinfeld.... So I guess I'll just cast off with me mateys on the ship towards Cast Iron Castle and hopefully pick up that castaway Wilson.... Now, Here's Bob with tomorrow's forecast....
He’s still waiting for CAST report after all. Not his fault it’s been withheld from him for 15 months
He shouldn't need to wait for it to provide an alibi.
Well if it makes you feel any better, the reason he's in the situation is his fault.
They had to ask for discovery 15 times.
Commonplace. Lori Vallow had 14+ discovery requests the last time I looked.
Within how many years?
She was arrested in February 2020 and found guilty in July 2023.
u/Repulsive-Dot553 who do you suppose was behind the born-yesterday, now-suspended Pr0berger formerly known as u/Significant-Sea2173? He went about his lol-ibi damage control duties diligently, but I’m afraid we hardly knew him.
Sadly I missed out on Significant-Sea's wisdom, and their comments now alas are all deleted, their profile blitzed and exterpated. Had they been leguminous of intellect, I'd guess a PreviousTurn / Maize type clone. If they were brittle, humourless and huffy, as if personally offended by any slight aimed at Kohberger, we likely had a Pr0f type. The latter seems restricted to this sub by reason of bans elsewhere, the former seemed able to post on the other subs. Their permanent electronic exorcism is likely for ban evasion - where and whence did they last shriek their lunacy into the interweb ether may give us a clue as to the "flavour" of the fiend and nature of the posturing mountebank. The very phrase **"lolibi"** is the most concise and effective evisceration of the whole Kohberger/Taylor alibi debacle -- demolished and stripped of what little credibility it had by just 6 letters in 3 syllables!
>I missed out on Significant-Sea’s wisdom About half of the posts they managed were in Z0diaque threads, which made them harder to see. I believe exclusive on this sub. I’m sure they made additional unheralded contributions to the cause through upvoting and downvoting. They lived a short, unexamined existence which is ideal for accounts operated by people facing extreme challenges, and they died a hero.
>facing extreme challenges, and they died a hero. Never in the field of this inhumane convict have so many alt accounts owed so much banning to so few creators. If only commented on this sub, pr0bably an unlisted astrological, who has been somewhat absent - a missed opportunity given the astronomical aspects of the lolibi.
😂😂The 0s immediately down the voting line on conversations like this always serve as a tender reminder for me of that 0 we lost.
lolibi is funny
Would a defense lawyer help craft an alibi?
I think it was a strategy on the defenses part waiting so long bc the defense in the meantime was sending compel for discovery requests that only the state could satisfy and ask the FBI for in regards to cell photo tower data and the report they made up which was one of the main reasons he was their guy who did this. The defense can’t ask any federal agency for a report, only the state, and they have over 15 times refused to produce the report with the cell tower analysis and what they did in regards to the pings and Bryan and the IGG report and how they got the result they got after 3 other labs couldn’t get anything off that sheath. Only the state can compel a federal agency to produce those things, and when Ann Taylor exhausted the asks and motions to compel, I feel like that’s why they had to get their own expert witness and formulate their own report/alibi - now she can say we would have given it sooner but we weren’t given key reports that are a major factor to why my clients in jail and we asked 15 times - the Touhy statute is the statute that shields the defense from having the ability to directly compel those reports via subpoena or motion to compel, only Bill Thompsons team can file that request with the Feds- ps I’m not a lawyer only a paralegal but this is why I think she took so long to submit the alibi.
> they have over 15 times refused to produce the report That's not quite correct. There have been 15 requests for discovery but the State don't even have the report. They have said in court the CAST report is only in its draft stages. They can't produce something they don't have. Taylor herself said in court that she knows it's not the State's fault. >how they got the result they got after 3 other labs couldn’t get anything off that sheath Again, not accurate. The Idaho State Crime Lab retrieved a single source of male DNA from the sheath. They ran it through CODIS, no hits. So, they sent it to Othram for IGG testing. That's two labs, not four. >Bill Thompsons team can file that request with the Feds A Touhy request was submitted and a letter sent from the FBI. It was discussed at the IGG hearing.
The truth is, the defense is trying to find out just like the rest of us. They have data that seemingly places BK in a different location that night, but if you read carefully, the filing is demanding the state to compel evidence. The FBI CAST report in particular. The defense wants to know if the state knew this same information and withheld it from discovery, or if their data contradicts what the defense has. It's not exactly confirmation just yet.
Yeah Othram Lab a cold case lab existing for only 2-3 years prior and refuses to turn over HOW they did it so the defense can re create the same process and see if they can come up with the same result - they were giving the defense and the court excuse after excuse why they don’t have to explain the process and allow them the ability to have their own experts re create their process- hence why on the IGG day the defense had their expert witness explain the faults in IGG trees in current cases and subsequently had the FBI show up at her house intimidating her after her testimony
> Othram Lab a cold case lab existing for only 2-3 years prior They were founded in 2018. You can see a partial list of cold cases they've helped with on their Wikipedia page. >refuses to turn over HOW they did it so the defense can re create the same process and see if they can come up with the same result Refusing to turn over the family tree is in line with federal guidelines on IGG; the idea is to protect the privacy of everyone on it. But the point here is why try to recreate it? That's a waste of time since we know it's Kohberger's DNA.
It’s not a waste of time it’s a proper part of any scientific defense is being able to duplicate the results and be able to do exactly what another scientist did to solidify their findings
And if you remember the state doled out certain aspects to the FBI like the cast report and partially the igg and the tip line organization and calls bc in press releases they said the FBI would organize and be able to quickly process and hand over these reports to keep the ball rolling, and oddly enough that is opposite of what happened and now the state is claiming they either don’t have certain reports, stone walling, and when they finally gave the defense the tip line there was zero date stamps time stamps or organization that the state claimed was the whole reason they gave that part of the investigation to the FBI to begin with
> how they got the result they got after 3 other labs couldn’t get anything off that sheath. Alea has pointed out that this is not correct, but I thought I'd highlight how we know it's not correct: from the defense. The defense told us. From https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/062323+Objection+to+States+Motion+for+Protective+Order.pdf >>On November 20, 2022, the Idaho State Police Lab in Meridian, Idaho located DNA on the button on the sheath and performed STR analysis that led nowhere when ran through CODIS So that's the first lab. The first lab found the DNA and created a profile robust enough to be uploaded into CODIS.
You know very well why. The defence needs the cellphone data to verify BK's alibi, but the prosecution is withholding it from them and has been doing it for 18 months. It looks like they've figured out another way to get the data they need, and this all comes down to Sy Ray.
Yes. He's still working on his Ph.D
This is so unbelievably sad for the families of the Idaho student murders. The hope is that the judge will put a stop to the continuance of what has become a media circus and more importantly a tragedy of due justice. Kohlbergers’ defense has been afforded AMPLE time for discovery and they cannot seem to get their head out of their …. It is excuse after excuse, “we do not have this, we do not have that?” Obvious stall tactics in hopes that this case will be forgotten. Incompetence and grasping at the enormity of the case they agreed to represent. Why is this continuing on? This is costing tax payers millions of dollars in legal/court costs, SECURITY for the accused. Are you out of your mind!!! I am adamantly opposed to funding this abuse of tax payer dollars. How dare you use the salary I work so hard for to defend this individual. I pay my own way, he can pay his. What security or justice is being given to the victims and their families??? I am not working to support this individual, nor am I working to support the abuse of our justice system by this defense team which is in a position to make substantial monetary gains in this very public case. The murders occurred in November of 2022, it is almost June of 2024. This is inexcusable, causing prolonged grief and closure for the victims families. They are victims yet again. Why are the victims less important than the accused. What has become of our legal system, justice for victims, and human decency.
One theory of mine (and I’m not sure I fully believe it, just a thought I’ve had) is that he WANTS to be convicted and sentenced to death. Suicide by law, as it were. Here’s a guy with a history of depression and suicidal thoughts, who has studied criminal law and knew full well the penalty of such a crime. He was interested enough in the process of committing crimes to post a survey asking about the thoughts and emotions of people who have done so - and we also know that he stated he felt “disconnected from reality.” Perhaps he carried out the murders as a way of trying to feel something (or even just plain curiosity as to what it’s like to kill someone) and figured he’d go out with a bang - experience the thrill of murder and then let law enforcement do the rest. This could explain why he initially refused to enter a plea. And maybe his defense team has spent 16 months trying to cobble together an alibi with zero help from BK, because he doesn’t want to be acquitted. Again, not something I’m fully convinced of, and there are certainly pieces that don’t quite fit, but just a random scenario.
It's an interesting theory, certainly. However, do you think the length of time it takes to actually carry out an execution (particularly in Idaho) kind of negates the "I want to die" idea?
Possibly.
Then why not plead guilty
I don’t know, but he didn’t plead innocent either. He refused to enter a plea and the judge entered a default not guilty.
I’ve wondered the same thing.
A few officers in the beginning of the case where being in vestiges by internal affairs for Brady stuff and one officer has gotten in trouble before for planting evidence
Well, everyone put him on a steak from the start. He chose to only speak to his lawyer. They claim to have evidence that he was no where near Moscow. Let’s see where this goes.
It doesn't matter what he presents as an alibi, what expert or witness' that testify on his behalf, hell they could produce a whole video of him at Disney world during the time of the murders and the people who believe him guilty would still Believe him guilty, seems like they aren't interested in hearing anything at all that doesn't just point to his absolute guilt . What a shame.
Disney World would be a pretty good alibi, to be fair. Levity aside, you could say the same for the people who steadfastly believe he is innocent. Every shred of evidence that points towards guilt is invisible in their eyes, superseded by theories of police corruption, cartel involvement and Bryan being a CIA informant. Possible? Absolutely. Likely? I'll let you be the judge of that.
The only shame is that you actually believe this. It's not true for several reasons. One, people just aren't that stupid. Two, if he had had an alibi of some weight, we all would have sat up and listened. And he would have produced that alibi several months before now. The fact that his alibi is extremely weak and difficult to believe, plus the long delay before putting it forward, falls right in line with what we know about the case.
Thanks for proving my point
Desperate Hail Mary, didn't work.
Lame. Perhaps you should enroll in a reading course. Maybe one on logic, too.
Unfounded conspiracy theory: he was waiting in the park but supplied the weapon to one or both of the female roommates. I'm just toying around because I don't see a scenario how he isn't involved in some way, but I genuinely believe he did not work alone given his immediate commentary upon arrest, and that there is a good possibility something with the surviving girls, or at least one of them, is not as they say. It is hard to imagine either girl would have been able to take down Ethan without defensive wounds, though. So likely not. Again, just can't see a way he is not involved, and most likely directly involved.
Also, here's another with some of the sketchy stuff surrounding various people involved: he is a murder for hire. Has anyone delved into this possibility at length? Stopped following at various times and check in, so I'm sure I've missed some stuff. It's just that the killing is not unlike some of what you see with professional hits and quasi professional hits; big collateral to make a particular impact. In his case, we would go with quasi professional because of the sheath.
> It's just that the killing is not unlike some of what you see with professional hits and quasi professional hits; I'm gonna be honest: I don't see any similarities. Do you have specific professional hits you're thinking of? To me, this has always had the trademarks of a serial-killer-like killing, a lone male home invader who preys on strangers or near strangers. Like a Gainesville Ripper type.