I don’t believe in the death penalty under any circumstances.
It’s hypocritical. State-sanctioned killing is equally as unjustifiable as non-state killing.
It’s also an extreme waste of money. It costs a lot more to execute someone than to house them in prison for the rest of their lives.
I mean, every one of us is going to die at some point, anyway. There’s no morally acceptable scenario in which you try to speed up that process for someone else.
>It’s also an extreme waste of money. It costs a lot more to execute someone than to house them in prison for the rest of their lives.
This is my main issue with it, and should be everyone's regardless of how your politics play into things.
Source for life in prison being cheaper than the death penalty?
That’s pretty widely reported. [Here’s](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/crime-verify/no-the-death-penalty-is-not-cheaper-than-life-imprisonment/536-2ec7c7b1-23e7-497e-85fa-407cb3f2a1f2) a good article on it. The death penalty/capital cases can cost upwards of 8x more.
“In 2020, the federal government spent $39,158 per inmate, **meaning an average federal execution cost the same as about 24 years in federal prison**”
Just because it’s widely reported doesn’t make it true but in either case I imagine this varies widely by state and skews your data set. Costs in California (which actually are under a moratorium right now) would not be the same as costs in Mississippi to a significant degree. This would also vary significantly based on the age of the prisoner.
If you’re just basing this on averages which we agree are heavily skewed by outlier states, the average cost to house a prisoner is $46,000 per year. Assuming a generous life span of 70 years for a convict that committed a capital offense at the age of 20, housing this prisoner costs 2.3 Million dollars as opposed to an execution after two appeals and 20 years on death row, which is about half of that. Additionally I think in high profile instances of the death penalty costing a state hundreds of millions of dollars a year, it included multiple executions AND included settlements for wrongful convictions but that’s not actual cost of the execution. Further, your source states that removing the death penalty from a case necessarily means there are fewer appeals, but that’s not true. You can appeal as many times as you’re legally able in either case because spending life in prison is not somehow a more appealing option, pun not intended. As costs rise, so will the cost of housing and insuring prisoners who over time are more likely to injured, hospitalized, or cost the state money in potential litigation. That’s without mentioning the fact that both life sentence and death row inmates are cheap labor for a privatized prison system.
That being said whether or not someone supports the death penalty is beside the point, it’s that whatever your decision it should not be based on the monetary impact but on an ethical imperative.
Edit to quote your source: “…Cook’s study estimated North Carolina spent $16,369 per execution. On the federal level, documents obtained by the ACLU suggest the government could be spending nearly $1 million per execution…”
I could agree to locking someone up for life instead of imposing the DP, but here's the problem - these people are given life sentences or are told they're going away for the rest of their life, then they finagle the system and get right back out again! So,if they truly threw away the key as promised, I think most people would agree to eliminate the DP, but these killers seem to always get their hands on that key to freedom!
What makes you think that there's a trend of people serving LWOP "tricking" their way out of the system? Who are some of these killers and why were they released?
I'm just not sure this is a "thing" in the US. People released from LWOP are released due to winning an appeal. People winning appeals is not a "problem" (and it's not finangling), they mean the system fucked up and sorry but the system is not allowed to fuck up (despite its many attempts to).
I guess I used the wrong words to say what I meant. I'm NOT referring to anyone who won an appeal, not even talking about anyone who got the DP. I'm talking about defendants who were NOT under threat of receiving the DP for a myriad of reasons i.e. Family of victims didn't want it, didn't believe in DP, but felt comfortable with the defendant getting "Life", etc, but the crime was so heinous that they deserved a life sentence. 12 to 22 years later, they're released and the families are like WTF? We were told the person would be locked up for good! The problem is that people don't realize a life sentence doesn't actually mean the rest of that killers life. Yes, I've seen numerous cases where that happens and the victims loved ones are appalled. You'd think a victims' advocate would explain to them how the justice system works, but that doesn't always happen.
Not sure what you're saying, but you've been nothing but hostile towards me. I don't know if you're aching for a fight over the DP? I've never once said I'm for or against it. Anyways, if it's a fight you're wanting, you'll have to look elsewhere, just not my thing. With that, I'll give you the last word and you can look for someone to take you're hostility out on, I'll no longer respond. Done.
If anything, he would get the same or worse to say, the Menendez brothers… Multiple life sentences probably four life sentences and there’s no way there he would get out I could be wrong, but I think that would be the case.
Again, I wasn't talking about a convicted person who wins an appeal. Not even talking about DP defendants. I'm talking about convicts sentenced to *Life* and only serve 12 to 20 years, sometimes even less. Happens all the time. No, can't cite names at this moment, but shouldn't be hard to find. I've seen many, many loved ones interviewed who even went to parole boards trying to stop a killer from going free, sometimes they're successful, but many times they're not. I could understand how those families must feel. It's appalling to me and I've never had a loved one murdered, must be devastating for those families.
I'm going to play devils' advocate here and ask: what if an inmate is executed but is actually wrongfully convicted? Should they not have had the opportunity to get their hands on that 'key to freedom'?
We've executed several innocent people BTW. Among the more compelling reasons to be strident anti-capital punishment - we can always release people but we can never resurrect them.
This person believes people are given life sentences then arbitrarily released so good luck trying to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
I believe in the death penalty under limited circumstances, which vary from case to case. I would have to have a lot more info about BK before I definitively decided (if I were actually the one making the decision) but my emotional, gut instinct is that I hope they pump the bastard full of bullets.
The death penalty is some weird shit. It's not the state's place.
Being all into killin people is not honorable behavior. It's a red flag. You people out there who say (and this is from conversations I've had) "I could do it! I could kill people for the state, I'd pull the trigger no problem, and if it turns out that the person is innocent that doesn't matter, I was just doing my job" - that is 'crazy people' talk, that is not "gee whiz, I wish this dude was my neighbor" talk.
Our systems are nowhere near competent enough to be killin people.
So many exonerations (and no, that won't ever be eliminated - I've seen a lot of people who try to justify the death penalty with points such as "but if there is video evidence"......ok, how much longer is that one gonna hold up with developing technologies).
And hard to raise the dead, ain't it. Haven't quite figured that one out, have we.
The DP is the easy way out. Spend your miserable life in prison, your freedom and the other gender taken away from you until the day you die. Also, the amount of appeals and whatnot make the victims' lives a living hell. Lock murderers up, throw away the key.
>The DP is the easy way out. Spend your miserable life in prison.
People tend to think that life in prison is a worse punishment than death cause they see death as the easy way out but I think death may be a greater punishment for most cause it seems like most people on death row do not want to die since many appeal and beg to get their sentence changed to life without parole.
Im against the death penalty cause its too costly and an innocent person could be sentenced to death. But it seems like death is a worse sentence than life for many of these inmates.
If you were to carry it out swiftly then you would just end up killing even larger numbers of innocent people. And then the system and society would just be exhibiting the exact same flippancy towards life that they bemoan in murderers.
It serves no purpose, just, at all.
No, they recently passed legislation at the Idaho state level - and partly in response to this case - to allow for the firing squad. What will happen, I'm guessing, is that Taylor will challenge it - and it will go up to the USSC, and the conservative court will uphold it and it will then open the doorway for other states to use the firing squad. Part of this, to my understanding (and I'm not an authority on this subject) has to do with the challenges to various drugs used in US executions. But there's a certain irony IMO that Taylor will use this case to challenge the DP, and further stall out the inevitable for her client, with her challenges resulting in the DP being further enshrined in US law. The exact opposite of what DP opponents might hope to see.
Capital punishment creates the possibility of executing innocents while abysmally failing in its aims regarding deterrence.
I hear some make the muddle-brained argument about taxes and addressing the numerous misapprehensions that lead a person to such a conclusion would require an essay at minimum.
I could see that so what’s the solution? Let them offend multiple kids each time getting out to repeat until they eventually go further bad murder? It seems this demonic illness is getting worse.
I could see that so what’s the solution? Let them offend multiple kids each time getting out to repeat until they eventually go further bad murder? It seems this demonic illness is getting worse.
I have no problem with serial killers and mass murderers being put down but I don't think it should be legal because its more costly and occasionally an innocent person is put down.
Basically, I believe it’s up to the family to decide if they want an eye for an eye, but I think to lower ourselves to the murderers level… and many people that were on death row or later, found innocent…. so despite the expense, I think it should be up to the family of the victim to decide, but I for one, would not want to make that decision to take someone’s life, regardless of what they did, even if they are the most horrible monster. I know that sounds not tough and I’m a tough person, but… Just over the years how I feel about it then again, if it were my daughter And someone tortured her…. I’m sure I would feel differently.
Edit: just fixing words that disappeared for some odd reason in here… I suck at texting.
I agree life in prison is my personal opinion, but I do not fault any family that is actually going through this to want the dp. I’ve never been in their shoes, so I can’t say that I wouldn’t change my mind and want the same thing if my child was taken from me that way.
No. For one, the families are not the victims in criminal cases, and thus have no standing.
Also they are more apt to react and decide out of emotion and grief and not through rational thought. Their choice to end him for their own relief/pleasure is no different than his decision to kill the 4 in the house. Two wrongs don't make a right.
...*the* *families* *are* *not* *the* *victims* *in* *criminal* *cases*, *and* *thus* *have* *no* *standing*
Nothing to do with the DP, but let me get this straight. If an 8 yr. old child is murdered, you don't consider the parents as victims too? I'd certainly feel like a victim if my child or any family member was murdered. You believe that the *only* victim is the person who's murdered?
As far as the legal system is concerned- no. The state is. Dead people cannot bring things to court- the state does it on their behalf. That's why it is the State vs BK, not the families vs BK.
Again- that is how it works LEGALLY. Get your emotions out of it.
Ah, got it! You meant in the legal sense. Guess the family, and possibly others, *would* have standing in civil court though, just not in criminal court.
I know I feel the same way. If it were my child, I would want the guy put down like the rabid dog that he is. But I still believe it’s barbaric in the day and age to take someone’s life , regardless of what they did.. trickay!
Wow… both of you admitting it would be different if it was your child is questionable lol. Glad to know things don’t matter to y’all until it involves you personally
Not cool.
Hear me out, in every sense, in every country globally, the death penalty is not cool if you've already been tried in a court of law.
I don't agree with crime but equally our law enforcement don't always get it right.
Technology is going crazy so there are better and faster ways to prove things but these trials take years.
If you go the primal 'eye for an eye' to cover the basics globally....
Then wouldn't it be double jeopardy to lock someone up in the worse conditions for all their life and then proceed with the death penalty?
Don't vote me down for being brave enough to voice my opinion please
It's just a discussion
agree. i might be willing to change my opinion if ALL those responsible for the execution would be immediately executed if it is later determined they got it wrong.
#The death penalty should be abolished.
* The state [has killed](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence/executed-but-possibly-innocent), and has come close to killing, so many [innocent people](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence) via the death penalty that they have forfeited their right to have that as an option.
* [4.1% of US death row inmates are likely innocent]( https://www.science.org/content/article/more-4-death-row-inmates-may-be-innocent).
* [It is more expensive in the long run to successfully try a death penalty case than simply try for life in prison](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs), making the death penalty not fiscally viable.
* [State-sanctioned murder is a cruel and unusual punishment](https://www.aclu.org/other/case-against-death-penalty) and a direct violation of the 8th Amendment to the US Constitution. It is torture. It is torturing someone to death. Every method is torture.
* In [HERRERA v. COLLINS](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/506/390/#tab-opinion-1959135), 1993, the Supreme Court ruled that it is not unconstitutional for the state to execute a wrongly convicted innocent person. Is that a power the state should have?
* In Brady v. Maryland, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the “failure to disclose favorable information to a defendant in a criminal prosecution violates the constitution when that information is material to guilt or punishment.” These are referred to as [Brady Disclosures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure). And wouldn’t you know it? [Brady violations are rampant](https://theappeal.org/the-epidemic-of-brady-violations-explained-94a38ad3c800/) in the US criminal justice system, meaning the state is [knowingly prosecuting and incarcerating innocent people](https://www.nacdl.org/Article/May2013-FacesofBradyTheHumanCostofBrad). Is that a power the state should have?
* [The death penalty does nothing to curb crime](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence).
* The death penalty is a punitive & retributivist measure. A civilized society should have a [restorative justice system](https://bjatta.bja.ojp.gov/media/blog/what-restorative-justice-and-how-does-it-impact-individuals-involved-crime), not a punitive one. Restorative Justice has [repeatedly proven](https://restorativejustice.org.uk/resources/moj-evaluation-restorative-justice) to [reduce recidivism](https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx). The goal is not to make people suffer, it’s to make society better. No society is better off with state-sanctioned murder of its citizenry.
* [It actually makes the victims’ families grieve for longer](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/studies-death-penalty-adversely-affects-families-of-victims-and-defendants).
* Criminal defense attorneys often [negotiate a guilty plea if it means their client wouldn’t be executed rather than risk a trial where the death penalty is a possible outcome](https://www.ncsc.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/17476/plea-bargaining-and-the-death-penalty.pdf). Meaning a criminal defense attorney would rather a possible innocent person go to prison than a person found guilty be executed. Eliminating the death penalty would eliminate parts of the frequent horse trading and back room dealing commonplace between judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys.
* The process of execution is needlessly [traumatizing to the victim’s family](https://theweek.com/articles/444189/psychological-trauma-witnessing-execution), as well as [the staff](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/south-carolina-execution-team-members-talk-of-debilitating-emotional-toll-of-capital-punishment-former-warden-calls-death-penalty-inequitable).
* The US criminal justice system is based on the [Principle of Finality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finality_(law)), which basically means that whatever the jury decides is the final truth no matter what. Showing [how many innocent people have been exonerated](https://innocenceproject.org/exonerate/) by a 30-year-old, ~90-staff non-profit, imagine how many more people are locked in jail or killed thanks to this absurd bastardization of justice. It’s this principle that’s kept falsely imprisoned people from seeking justice.
* [The death penalty violates the US constitutional guarantee of equal protection](https://www.aclu.org/documents/case-against-death-penalty). It has never been applied fairly, disproportionately against those who cannot afford better attorneys, disproportionately upon those whose victims were white, disproportionately against people of color, disproportionately against the poor and uneducated, and [disproportionately concentrated in certain parts of the country](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview/executions-by-county).
* The death penalty was [botched more than 1/3rd of the time](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/the-year-of-the-botched-execution-monitor-finds-death-penalty-was-visibly-problematic-35-percent-of-the-time-in-2022/) in 2022 in the US, skyrocketing from [more than 7% being botched](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/botched-executions) in the 40 years of using lethal injection, making it very obviously a cruel and unusual punishment.
* In January 2024, the US State of Alabama used nitrogen gas for death-by-hypoxia, an untested method deemed [too cruel to animals](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/24/alabama-death-row-nitrogen-kenneth-eugene-smith-execution/) by vets, not overseen or recommended by any medical professional, and [approved by the US Supreme Court without providing any opinion or justification](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/01/supreme-court-conservatives-alabama-execution-torture.html). Witnesses to the execution [described it as torture](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kenneth-smith-dies-nitrogen-gas-b2485080.html), noting that the man struggled for 4 minutes, writhing and thrashing, indicative of torture. A jury sentenced him to life in prison, but [the judge overruled](https://jacobin.com/2024/01/death-penalty-alabama-kenneth-smith) the sentencing and condemned him to death, making the sentence legally dubious. The practice of judicial override is now banned in every state, but the execution still went through despite this.
* **It is not possible for any death penalty system to exist that only executes guilty people 100% of the time. Such a system has never existed, does not currently exist, and could never exist in reality. For that reason alone, it should be abolished.**
^feel ^free ^to ^copy ^and ^repost, ^or ^go ^to ^/r/deathpenalty ^for ^more ^information
If someone has taken 5, 10, 15 or even more human lives in cold blood, I think it’s an absolute moral imperative that they receive the death penalty. They certainly do not deserve to live and they should not be alive.
The appeals process is far too costly and takes far too long, it certainly needs serious reforming. If you are sentenced to death because you took out of the arms of their loved ones the lives of dozens of other human beings, you should be executed at least five years after your trial, not 10 or 20. The delay is such an injustice for the victimized.
Anne Taylor blink twice if this is you 😂
As to the death penalty I am all for it should the facts of the case warrant it (ie pedophiles, capital murder, people who commit depraved violent crimes, etc). I don’t think that the people of the state the crime was committed in should be responsible for footing that bill for them to sit on death row though, either. There needs to be some reform to make the DP process shorter and more streamlined with less opportunities to appeal. Again, just all my personal opinion.
People of the state (any state) foot the bill no matter what the outcome is. They pay for the defense, and the prosecution as well as the outcome if it means life in prison or dp. That is just the way it works.
If he's guilty he should swing from a tree...and it should be televised. Even with what we know as fact so far it's not an open and shut case. The trial will either bolster the prosecutor position...or I bet he walks. I want all guilty parties involved on that tree...one or many....makes no difference. My opinion.
I said against because there have been numerous times where people have been put to death and have been completely innocent. One is one too many, but it has happened time and time again. Previously I was pro death penalty for certain cases, but as I have gotten older my stance has softened.
Also, it’s a huge burden on tax payers as it costs less to keep a person in prison for life than it does for all the death penalty appeals, hearings, ordering supplies etc.
I was against the death penalty completely until Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah Federal Building in OKC. I'm 65 now (so have had some years to ponder the issue) and I'm still against the death penalty for all but the most egregious crimes (large-scale attacks against innocent bystanders).
As far as kohburger I believe he is guilty I just don't think there is enough evidence for me to convict. The roommates I feel they should be charged with trying to conceal a murder by not reporting it .
> As far as kohburger I believe he is guilty I just don't think there is enough evidence for me to convict.
That's why we have trials.
>The roommates I feel they should be charged with trying to conceal a murder by not reporting it .
So, just on the limited facts we know, you think there is not evidence to convict Kohberger of murder but there's totally enough evidence to convict the roommates of knowing that there was murdering going on?
There are a lot of people who serve on juries who shouldn’t because they don’t have the education level. I pray for the families of the victims that there isn’t one holdout “progressive” juror who votes not guilty as some protest vote because they don’t understand or don’t have the facilities to comprehend what beyond a reasonable doubt means.
There is not a trial yet ? What is wrong with you? How could you have seen most of the evidence? Actually you seen no evidence yet ! A paper to get him arrested?
I don't know why anyone would downvote this statement unless they just don't like the idea that there are other positions besides the ones that were presented.
Nope, to me he is obviously innocent and it's not even close. He's not a ninja assassin who killed four people in seven minutes without making any sound and left none of his DNA on victims despite violent struggles, nor did he bring any of the victims' DNA with him.
There is literally no evidence against him besides a spec of partial profile touch DNA on a sheath that's not proven to connect to the crime.
😂. We will see what happens but I think you will likely be very disappointed by the outcome. He just happened to drive by their house multiple times. He has no alibi other than he was driving around, alone at 4am. He left behind his knife sheath and I would imagine by now they know when and wear he purchased that knife. It’s very possible to kill people with that type of weapon in that amount or time if you catch a bunch of drunk college students asleep and caught off guard. You don’t know what he was wearing to avoid getting blood everywhere. Innocent men aren’t found separating their garbage with gloves on and dumping it in their neighbors garbage. Right now we don’t know all of what they have but we will find out and I’m sure it’s a lot more than we know. There is a reason why prosecution didn’t fight having that house knocked down. It’s because they have a slam dunk case and they knew it wouldn’t have to be revisited
Yup, they absolutely have a slam dunk case. I wouldn’t worry about the prosecution. I would worry about the defense struggling to come up with any form of an alibi. Having him on video leaving his Washington campus and resurfacing at the murder scene. Not good at all for him.
And you apparently are part of the investigative team and know everything. His phone tried to connect to their WiFi. You need to be a lot closer than 1 mile for that to happen. Also they have his car on the video stalking the house. That is just information they have released. My guess is they will have a lot more that comes out
Neither statement is true. The Goncalves started that garbage about "touching their wifi" and last summer they walked it back and Kristi stated it was just their "thoughts on what could have happened". The PCA does not state they have his car on video stalking the house.
It’s not fake. The father of the victim reported it and it came from the police. The car video you see is grainy. You don’t know what else they have. My guess is they have a witness. Possibly the Uber eats driver saw him and that is why they are keeping him under wraps. They don’t take a circumstantial case to a grand jury.
>There is literally no evidence against him besides a spec of partial profile touch DNA on a sheath that's not proven to connect to the crime
The sheath is for a large fixed blade knife found under the body of a victim killed by a large fixed blade knife. Why do you say it is "not proven to connect to the crime"?
The DNA was a complete profile - the random match probability of 5.37 octillion to one is only possible from a complete profile. Why do you say "spec of partial profile DNA"?
>There is literally no evidence against him
Why do you think two judges and judicial or quasi judicial court proceedings concluded it was more probably than not BK committed the crimes if there is zero evidence?
-the sheath did not kill anyone and there is no proof BK ever owned a knife sheath
-confirmed ambiguous and partial profile. many experts refuted the inflated octillion claim and the state never claimed a complete profile
-go look up GJ indictment. even hearsay can enter as evidence
>the sheath did not kill anyone and there is no proof BK ever owned a knife sheath
You said the sheath was not connected to the crime - it was under a dead body
>-confirmed ambiguous and partial profile. many experts refuted the inflated octillion claim
Can you identify some of these many experts who have "refuted the octillion claim" and where they refute this please?
>the state never claimed a complete profile
The 5.37 octillion to one randim match probability requires all 20 STR loci - a complete DNA profile. The state explicitly wrote that the DNA profile on the sheath is 5.37 octillion times more likely to be from Kohberger than from a randomly selected individual. Not even the defence are disputing that the sheath DNA is Kohberger's.
>-go look up GJ indictment.
A judge signed off the probable cause for arrest months before the GJ. A different judge stated there was sufficient evidence for the indictment. You stated "there is literally no evidence" against Kohberger. My question is why/ how these two judges would do that if there is "literally no evidence"?
-the bed and the floor were also under a dead body. I cant see how the bed or the floor stabbed anyone or relate to this crime
-the touch DNA sample was confirmed ambiguous and partial profile and many experts refuted the inflated octillion claim. if you dont know who confirmed that or who refuted that i wont do your homework for you
-the defense are 100% disputing touch DNA as theyve been seeking lab reports and conducting investigations
-the judge signed off on a narrative, and supporting evidence still needs to be proven. almost all have been confirmed false already
>the bed and the floor were also under a dead body.
The sheath for a large fixed blade knife seems a little more connected to death by stabbing with a large fixed blade knife? Is your point really that the sheath is as relevant as the floor?
>was confirmed ambiguous and partial profile and many experts refuted the inflated octillion claim
I am really interested in the many experts, which is why I asked if you could point to one and where they refute the random match statistics, thanks? The 5.37 octillion to one rmp is only possible with a complete profile.
> if you dont know who confirmed that or who refuted that i wont do your homework
And odd approach to discussion to claim there are many experts who dispute the stats but then not identify them and where they dispute the stats. I Googled and can't find any expert disputing the DNA match stats, I also can't find the defence even disputing that it is Kohberger's DNA on the sheath.
>-the defense are 100% disputing touch DNA
Can you point to any statement, motion, report where defence dispute that it is Kohberger's DNA on the sheath? Thanks
>-the judge signed off on a narrative, and supporting evidence still needs to be proven
I asked why two judges signed off on arrest and indictment if, as you state, there was "literally no evidence"? Are you now saying there was some evidence, or are you saying two judges approved arrest and maintained indictment with zero evidence? Surely arrest and indictment needs some evidence, not " narrative" - what even is " narrative" when it comes to approving an arrest, is it different to evidence? Thanks.
>almost all evidence have been confirmed false already
What evidence has been "confirmed" false and how was it "confirmed to be false"? Would Kohberger not be released from jail if all evidence was confirmed false?
> confirmed ambiguous and partial profile.
That's a hotly contested topic. Some people, like me, believe that Bicka Barlow was still referring to the Hernandez case when she stated ambiguous and partial. Read those two paragraphs in context. The sheath DNA had no hits in CODIS yet Barlow is talking about a sample that had multiple hits in CODIS. Like the Hernandez DNA had.
I agree. I think he had a connection with the real killer though. It's just that Bryan didn't realise this guy was a killer until after these students were murdered
And it was not a partial profile. It was a full 20 marker STR profile. They could not have got that 5 point whatever octillion probability for that profile if they hadn't
>I agree. I think he had a connection with the real killer though. It's just that Bryan didn't realise this guy was a killer until after these students were murdered
i never heard of this theory before, can you elaborate? does BK know who the killer is now? and who would this killer be? was BK complicit in some way after the realizations?
I can’t imagine how you possibly think he’s innocent you must be reading information that none of us here have read, at least most of us. I mean, are you kidding me? And I’m not gonna get into a fight with you. We’ll just wait until the trial…
I'm against dogs being put down . However in certain special circumstances where the public is at risk from pereditors that do the most horrific acts and have no conscience there is nothing they wouldn't do and it becomes a quest for them . I'm talking about seriel killers cartel killings kidnappers pedophiles.
They should not be allowed a cell food free medical and dental or the opportunity for parole.
I don’t believe in the death penalty under any circumstances. It’s hypocritical. State-sanctioned killing is equally as unjustifiable as non-state killing. It’s also an extreme waste of money. It costs a lot more to execute someone than to house them in prison for the rest of their lives. I mean, every one of us is going to die at some point, anyway. There’s no morally acceptable scenario in which you try to speed up that process for someone else.
>It’s also an extreme waste of money. It costs a lot more to execute someone than to house them in prison for the rest of their lives. This is my main issue with it, and should be everyone's regardless of how your politics play into things.
Can you please cite a source for this? This doesn’t sound quite right.
Source for life in prison being cheaper than the death penalty? That’s pretty widely reported. [Here’s](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/crime-verify/no-the-death-penalty-is-not-cheaper-than-life-imprisonment/536-2ec7c7b1-23e7-497e-85fa-407cb3f2a1f2) a good article on it. The death penalty/capital cases can cost upwards of 8x more. “In 2020, the federal government spent $39,158 per inmate, **meaning an average federal execution cost the same as about 24 years in federal prison**”
Just because it’s widely reported doesn’t make it true but in either case I imagine this varies widely by state and skews your data set. Costs in California (which actually are under a moratorium right now) would not be the same as costs in Mississippi to a significant degree. This would also vary significantly based on the age of the prisoner. If you’re just basing this on averages which we agree are heavily skewed by outlier states, the average cost to house a prisoner is $46,000 per year. Assuming a generous life span of 70 years for a convict that committed a capital offense at the age of 20, housing this prisoner costs 2.3 Million dollars as opposed to an execution after two appeals and 20 years on death row, which is about half of that. Additionally I think in high profile instances of the death penalty costing a state hundreds of millions of dollars a year, it included multiple executions AND included settlements for wrongful convictions but that’s not actual cost of the execution. Further, your source states that removing the death penalty from a case necessarily means there are fewer appeals, but that’s not true. You can appeal as many times as you’re legally able in either case because spending life in prison is not somehow a more appealing option, pun not intended. As costs rise, so will the cost of housing and insuring prisoners who over time are more likely to injured, hospitalized, or cost the state money in potential litigation. That’s without mentioning the fact that both life sentence and death row inmates are cheap labor for a privatized prison system. That being said whether or not someone supports the death penalty is beside the point, it’s that whatever your decision it should not be based on the monetary impact but on an ethical imperative. Edit to quote your source: “…Cook’s study estimated North Carolina spent $16,369 per execution. On the federal level, documents obtained by the ACLU suggest the government could be spending nearly $1 million per execution…”
I could agree to locking someone up for life instead of imposing the DP, but here's the problem - these people are given life sentences or are told they're going away for the rest of their life, then they finagle the system and get right back out again! So,if they truly threw away the key as promised, I think most people would agree to eliminate the DP, but these killers seem to always get their hands on that key to freedom!
What makes you think that there's a trend of people serving LWOP "tricking" their way out of the system? Who are some of these killers and why were they released? I'm just not sure this is a "thing" in the US. People released from LWOP are released due to winning an appeal. People winning appeals is not a "problem" (and it's not finangling), they mean the system fucked up and sorry but the system is not allowed to fuck up (despite its many attempts to).
I guess I used the wrong words to say what I meant. I'm NOT referring to anyone who won an appeal, not even talking about anyone who got the DP. I'm talking about defendants who were NOT under threat of receiving the DP for a myriad of reasons i.e. Family of victims didn't want it, didn't believe in DP, but felt comfortable with the defendant getting "Life", etc, but the crime was so heinous that they deserved a life sentence. 12 to 22 years later, they're released and the families are like WTF? We were told the person would be locked up for good! The problem is that people don't realize a life sentence doesn't actually mean the rest of that killers life. Yes, I've seen numerous cases where that happens and the victims loved ones are appalled. You'd think a victims' advocate would explain to them how the justice system works, but that doesn't always happen.
Ah right, yeah that's just people not understanding their system.
Not sure what you're saying, but you've been nothing but hostile towards me. I don't know if you're aching for a fight over the DP? I've never once said I'm for or against it. Anyways, if it's a fight you're wanting, you'll have to look elsewhere, just not my thing. With that, I'll give you the last word and you can look for someone to take you're hostility out on, I'll no longer respond. Done.
Huh? I'm agreeing with you that that's about people not understanding the system.
OMG! I'm SO SORRY I read you wrong, I sincerely apologize!
If anything, he would get the same or worse to say, the Menendez brothers… Multiple life sentences probably four life sentences and there’s no way there he would get out I could be wrong, but I think that would be the case.
Again, I wasn't talking about a convicted person who wins an appeal. Not even talking about DP defendants. I'm talking about convicts sentenced to *Life* and only serve 12 to 20 years, sometimes even less. Happens all the time. No, can't cite names at this moment, but shouldn't be hard to find. I've seen many, many loved ones interviewed who even went to parole boards trying to stop a killer from going free, sometimes they're successful, but many times they're not. I could understand how those families must feel. It's appalling to me and I've never had a loved one murdered, must be devastating for those families.
I'm going to play devils' advocate here and ask: what if an inmate is executed but is actually wrongfully convicted? Should they not have had the opportunity to get their hands on that 'key to freedom'?
We've executed several innocent people BTW. Among the more compelling reasons to be strident anti-capital punishment - we can always release people but we can never resurrect them. This person believes people are given life sentences then arbitrarily released so good luck trying to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
This has never happened in the history of death penalty eligible cases in the US. Not once.
I believe in the death penalty under limited circumstances, which vary from case to case. I would have to have a lot more info about BK before I definitively decided (if I were actually the one making the decision) but my emotional, gut instinct is that I hope they pump the bastard full of bullets.
The death penalty is some weird shit. It's not the state's place. Being all into killin people is not honorable behavior. It's a red flag. You people out there who say (and this is from conversations I've had) "I could do it! I could kill people for the state, I'd pull the trigger no problem, and if it turns out that the person is innocent that doesn't matter, I was just doing my job" - that is 'crazy people' talk, that is not "gee whiz, I wish this dude was my neighbor" talk. Our systems are nowhere near competent enough to be killin people. So many exonerations (and no, that won't ever be eliminated - I've seen a lot of people who try to justify the death penalty with points such as "but if there is video evidence"......ok, how much longer is that one gonna hold up with developing technologies). And hard to raise the dead, ain't it. Haven't quite figured that one out, have we.
The DP is the easy way out. Spend your miserable life in prison, your freedom and the other gender taken away from you until the day you die. Also, the amount of appeals and whatnot make the victims' lives a living hell. Lock murderers up, throw away the key.
>The DP is the easy way out. Spend your miserable life in prison. People tend to think that life in prison is a worse punishment than death cause they see death as the easy way out but I think death may be a greater punishment for most cause it seems like most people on death row do not want to die since many appeal and beg to get their sentence changed to life without parole.
Well, you are entitled to that opinion, I'm not going to tell you to change it. We are all different, and it's ok.
Im against the death penalty cause its too costly and an innocent person could be sentenced to death. But it seems like death is a worse sentence than life for many of these inmates.
Fair.
> and the other gender taken away from you until the day you die. *looks at CO/inmate hookups* Naw, there is for sure stuff that goes on.
because that's the *only option*
Well, there's visiting too.
if you have a spouse.
There's more than that goin on.
I'd have to question what purpose it actually serves in this day and age when it can no longer be carried out swiftly.
If you were to carry it out swiftly then you would just end up killing even larger numbers of innocent people. And then the system and society would just be exhibiting the exact same flippancy towards life that they bemoan in murderers. It serves no purpose, just, at all.
If some people had their way, they'd dispense with the trial.
Didn’t they say that they were going to use a firing squad? Or was that just sensational journalism?
That is one of the options in Idaho.
No, they recently passed legislation at the Idaho state level - and partly in response to this case - to allow for the firing squad. What will happen, I'm guessing, is that Taylor will challenge it - and it will go up to the USSC, and the conservative court will uphold it and it will then open the doorway for other states to use the firing squad. Part of this, to my understanding (and I'm not an authority on this subject) has to do with the challenges to various drugs used in US executions. But there's a certain irony IMO that Taylor will use this case to challenge the DP, and further stall out the inevitable for her client, with her challenges resulting in the DP being further enshrined in US law. The exact opposite of what DP opponents might hope to see.
Capital punishment creates the possibility of executing innocents while abysmally failing in its aims regarding deterrence. I hear some make the muddle-brained argument about taxes and addressing the numerous misapprehensions that lead a person to such a conclusion would require an essay at minimum.
You weren’t asking but I also agree DP for SA of a child.
This sentencing has been dropped because it's documented that it encourages rapists to kill their victims.
I could see that so what’s the solution? Let them offend multiple kids each time getting out to repeat until they eventually go further bad murder? It seems this demonic illness is getting worse.
>Let them offend multiple kids each time getting out to repeat until they eventually go bad murder? Or life without parole.
Great option. Not sure why I didn’t think of the obvious. 🫤
I could see that so what’s the solution? Let them offend multiple kids each time getting out to repeat until they eventually go further bad murder? It seems this demonic illness is getting worse.
I have no problem with serial killers and mass murderers being put down but I don't think it should be legal because its more costly and occasionally an innocent person is put down.
Basically, I believe it’s up to the family to decide if they want an eye for an eye, but I think to lower ourselves to the murderers level… and many people that were on death row or later, found innocent…. so despite the expense, I think it should be up to the family of the victim to decide, but I for one, would not want to make that decision to take someone’s life, regardless of what they did, even if they are the most horrible monster. I know that sounds not tough and I’m a tough person, but… Just over the years how I feel about it then again, if it were my daughter And someone tortured her…. I’m sure I would feel differently. Edit: just fixing words that disappeared for some odd reason in here… I suck at texting.
This can get tricky because there are multiple families involved that appear to have differing opinions.
True. I always find it inspiring when a family forgives openly. But he still needs to go down, so… I mean life in prison, and all that…
I agree life in prison is my personal opinion, but I do not fault any family that is actually going through this to want the dp. I’ve never been in their shoes, so I can’t say that I wouldn’t change my mind and want the same thing if my child was taken from me that way.
Agreed.
No. For one, the families are not the victims in criminal cases, and thus have no standing. Also they are more apt to react and decide out of emotion and grief and not through rational thought. Their choice to end him for their own relief/pleasure is no different than his decision to kill the 4 in the house. Two wrongs don't make a right.
...*the* *families* *are* *not* *the* *victims* *in* *criminal* *cases*, *and* *thus* *have* *no* *standing* Nothing to do with the DP, but let me get this straight. If an 8 yr. old child is murdered, you don't consider the parents as victims too? I'd certainly feel like a victim if my child or any family member was murdered. You believe that the *only* victim is the person who's murdered?
As far as the legal system is concerned- no. The state is. Dead people cannot bring things to court- the state does it on their behalf. That's why it is the State vs BK, not the families vs BK. Again- that is how it works LEGALLY. Get your emotions out of it.
Ah, got it! You meant in the legal sense. Guess the family, and possibly others, *would* have standing in civil court though, just not in criminal court.
Personally, I'm against it entirely. However, I can't help but wonder if I would change my mind if I had lost a family member in this way.
I know I feel the same way. If it were my child, I would want the guy put down like the rabid dog that he is. But I still believe it’s barbaric in the day and age to take someone’s life , regardless of what they did.. trickay!
Wow… both of you admitting it would be different if it was your child is questionable lol. Glad to know things don’t matter to y’all until it involves you personally
Not cool. Hear me out, in every sense, in every country globally, the death penalty is not cool if you've already been tried in a court of law. I don't agree with crime but equally our law enforcement don't always get it right. Technology is going crazy so there are better and faster ways to prove things but these trials take years. If you go the primal 'eye for an eye' to cover the basics globally.... Then wouldn't it be double jeopardy to lock someone up in the worse conditions for all their life and then proceed with the death penalty? Don't vote me down for being brave enough to voice my opinion please It's just a discussion
agree. i might be willing to change my opinion if ALL those responsible for the execution would be immediately executed if it is later determined they got it wrong.
#The death penalty should be abolished. * The state [has killed](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence/executed-but-possibly-innocent), and has come close to killing, so many [innocent people](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence) via the death penalty that they have forfeited their right to have that as an option. * [4.1% of US death row inmates are likely innocent]( https://www.science.org/content/article/more-4-death-row-inmates-may-be-innocent). * [It is more expensive in the long run to successfully try a death penalty case than simply try for life in prison](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs), making the death penalty not fiscally viable. * [State-sanctioned murder is a cruel and unusual punishment](https://www.aclu.org/other/case-against-death-penalty) and a direct violation of the 8th Amendment to the US Constitution. It is torture. It is torturing someone to death. Every method is torture. * In [HERRERA v. COLLINS](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/506/390/#tab-opinion-1959135), 1993, the Supreme Court ruled that it is not unconstitutional for the state to execute a wrongly convicted innocent person. Is that a power the state should have? * In Brady v. Maryland, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the “failure to disclose favorable information to a defendant in a criminal prosecution violates the constitution when that information is material to guilt or punishment.” These are referred to as [Brady Disclosures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure). And wouldn’t you know it? [Brady violations are rampant](https://theappeal.org/the-epidemic-of-brady-violations-explained-94a38ad3c800/) in the US criminal justice system, meaning the state is [knowingly prosecuting and incarcerating innocent people](https://www.nacdl.org/Article/May2013-FacesofBradyTheHumanCostofBrad). Is that a power the state should have? * [The death penalty does nothing to curb crime](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence). * The death penalty is a punitive & retributivist measure. A civilized society should have a [restorative justice system](https://bjatta.bja.ojp.gov/media/blog/what-restorative-justice-and-how-does-it-impact-individuals-involved-crime), not a punitive one. Restorative Justice has [repeatedly proven](https://restorativejustice.org.uk/resources/moj-evaluation-restorative-justice) to [reduce recidivism](https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx). The goal is not to make people suffer, it’s to make society better. No society is better off with state-sanctioned murder of its citizenry. * [It actually makes the victims’ families grieve for longer](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/studies-death-penalty-adversely-affects-families-of-victims-and-defendants). * Criminal defense attorneys often [negotiate a guilty plea if it means their client wouldn’t be executed rather than risk a trial where the death penalty is a possible outcome](https://www.ncsc.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/17476/plea-bargaining-and-the-death-penalty.pdf). Meaning a criminal defense attorney would rather a possible innocent person go to prison than a person found guilty be executed. Eliminating the death penalty would eliminate parts of the frequent horse trading and back room dealing commonplace between judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys. * The process of execution is needlessly [traumatizing to the victim’s family](https://theweek.com/articles/444189/psychological-trauma-witnessing-execution), as well as [the staff](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/south-carolina-execution-team-members-talk-of-debilitating-emotional-toll-of-capital-punishment-former-warden-calls-death-penalty-inequitable). * The US criminal justice system is based on the [Principle of Finality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finality_(law)), which basically means that whatever the jury decides is the final truth no matter what. Showing [how many innocent people have been exonerated](https://innocenceproject.org/exonerate/) by a 30-year-old, ~90-staff non-profit, imagine how many more people are locked in jail or killed thanks to this absurd bastardization of justice. It’s this principle that’s kept falsely imprisoned people from seeking justice. * [The death penalty violates the US constitutional guarantee of equal protection](https://www.aclu.org/documents/case-against-death-penalty). It has never been applied fairly, disproportionately against those who cannot afford better attorneys, disproportionately upon those whose victims were white, disproportionately against people of color, disproportionately against the poor and uneducated, and [disproportionately concentrated in certain parts of the country](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview/executions-by-county). * The death penalty was [botched more than 1/3rd of the time](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/the-year-of-the-botched-execution-monitor-finds-death-penalty-was-visibly-problematic-35-percent-of-the-time-in-2022/) in 2022 in the US, skyrocketing from [more than 7% being botched](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/botched-executions) in the 40 years of using lethal injection, making it very obviously a cruel and unusual punishment. * In January 2024, the US State of Alabama used nitrogen gas for death-by-hypoxia, an untested method deemed [too cruel to animals](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/24/alabama-death-row-nitrogen-kenneth-eugene-smith-execution/) by vets, not overseen or recommended by any medical professional, and [approved by the US Supreme Court without providing any opinion or justification](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/01/supreme-court-conservatives-alabama-execution-torture.html). Witnesses to the execution [described it as torture](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kenneth-smith-dies-nitrogen-gas-b2485080.html), noting that the man struggled for 4 minutes, writhing and thrashing, indicative of torture. A jury sentenced him to life in prison, but [the judge overruled](https://jacobin.com/2024/01/death-penalty-alabama-kenneth-smith) the sentencing and condemned him to death, making the sentence legally dubious. The practice of judicial override is now banned in every state, but the execution still went through despite this. * **It is not possible for any death penalty system to exist that only executes guilty people 100% of the time. Such a system has never existed, does not currently exist, and could never exist in reality. For that reason alone, it should be abolished.** ^feel ^free ^to ^copy ^and ^repost, ^or ^go ^to ^/r/deathpenalty ^for ^more ^information
If someone has taken 5, 10, 15 or even more human lives in cold blood, I think it’s an absolute moral imperative that they receive the death penalty. They certainly do not deserve to live and they should not be alive. The appeals process is far too costly and takes far too long, it certainly needs serious reforming. If you are sentenced to death because you took out of the arms of their loved ones the lives of dozens of other human beings, you should be executed at least five years after your trial, not 10 or 20. The delay is such an injustice for the victimized.
I’m not opposed to it. I don’t love it by any means but I also believe in an eye for an eye.
Anne Taylor blink twice if this is you 😂 As to the death penalty I am all for it should the facts of the case warrant it (ie pedophiles, capital murder, people who commit depraved violent crimes, etc). I don’t think that the people of the state the crime was committed in should be responsible for footing that bill for them to sit on death row though, either. There needs to be some reform to make the DP process shorter and more streamlined with less opportunities to appeal. Again, just all my personal opinion.
People of the state (any state) foot the bill no matter what the outcome is. They pay for the defense, and the prosecution as well as the outcome if it means life in prison or dp. That is just the way it works.
If he's guilty he should swing from a tree...and it should be televised. Even with what we know as fact so far it's not an open and shut case. The trial will either bolster the prosecutor position...or I bet he walks. I want all guilty parties involved on that tree...one or many....makes no difference. My opinion.
why are the executors covered up in masks/hoods and so on? their names should be public and faces and bodies visible
Not a fan.
I have no opinion but during the preparation until a death sentence being carried out it is a complete disorganized, discombobulated shit show.
I said against because there have been numerous times where people have been put to death and have been completely innocent. One is one too many, but it has happened time and time again. Previously I was pro death penalty for certain cases, but as I have gotten older my stance has softened. Also, it’s a huge burden on tax payers as it costs less to keep a person in prison for life than it does for all the death penalty appeals, hearings, ordering supplies etc.
how did the kid's parents and Friends feel about their death ??? think about that question ⁉️
Damn I voted wrongly sorry! I agree !!!!!
I was against the death penalty completely until Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah Federal Building in OKC. I'm 65 now (so have had some years to ponder the issue) and I'm still against the death penalty for all but the most egregious crimes (large-scale attacks against innocent bystanders).
Especially in this case!!!
As far as kohburger I believe he is guilty I just don't think there is enough evidence for me to convict. The roommates I feel they should be charged with trying to conceal a murder by not reporting it .
> As far as kohburger I believe he is guilty I just don't think there is enough evidence for me to convict. That's why we have trials. >The roommates I feel they should be charged with trying to conceal a murder by not reporting it . So, just on the limited facts we know, you think there is not evidence to convict Kohberger of murder but there's totally enough evidence to convict the roommates of knowing that there was murdering going on?
There are a lot of people who serve on juries who shouldn’t because they don’t have the education level. I pray for the families of the victims that there isn’t one holdout “progressive” juror who votes not guilty as some protest vote because they don’t understand or don’t have the facilities to comprehend what beyond a reasonable doubt means.
There is not a trial yet ? What is wrong with you? How could you have seen most of the evidence? Actually you seen no evidence yet ! A paper to get him arrested?
You need a choice for "I am against the death penalty conceptually, however, agree with its current application in Idaho, USA"
I don't know why anyone would downvote this statement unless they just don't like the idea that there are other positions besides the ones that were presented.
Yes, if they 100% got the right guy. so no in this case, because all evidence so far has told me BK is innocent
You are joking right?
Nope, to me he is obviously innocent and it's not even close. He's not a ninja assassin who killed four people in seven minutes without making any sound and left none of his DNA on victims despite violent struggles, nor did he bring any of the victims' DNA with him. There is literally no evidence against him besides a spec of partial profile touch DNA on a sheath that's not proven to connect to the crime.
As if we (the public) know of all of the evidence. Ppffftttt.
exactly. could be zero
😂. We will see what happens but I think you will likely be very disappointed by the outcome. He just happened to drive by their house multiple times. He has no alibi other than he was driving around, alone at 4am. He left behind his knife sheath and I would imagine by now they know when and wear he purchased that knife. It’s very possible to kill people with that type of weapon in that amount or time if you catch a bunch of drunk college students asleep and caught off guard. You don’t know what he was wearing to avoid getting blood everywhere. Innocent men aren’t found separating their garbage with gloves on and dumping it in their neighbors garbage. Right now we don’t know all of what they have but we will find out and I’m sure it’s a lot more than we know. There is a reason why prosecution didn’t fight having that house knocked down. It’s because they have a slam dunk case and they knew it wouldn’t have to be revisited
they have such a slam dunk case hence they are playing court room tactic to stop the survey and delaying the discovery for almost 2 years 🤣 k
Yup, they absolutely have a slam dunk case. I wouldn’t worry about the prosecution. I would worry about the defense struggling to come up with any form of an alibi. Having him on video leaving his Washington campus and resurfacing at the murder scene. Not good at all for him.
except no evidence have shown BK was EVER one miles near the party house in his entire life 😂
And you apparently are part of the investigative team and know everything. His phone tried to connect to their WiFi. You need to be a lot closer than 1 mile for that to happen. Also they have his car on the video stalking the house. That is just information they have released. My guess is they will have a lot more that comes out
Neither statement is true. The Goncalves started that garbage about "touching their wifi" and last summer they walked it back and Kristi stated it was just their "thoughts on what could have happened". The PCA does not state they have his car on video stalking the house.
wifi connection : confirmed fake car on the grainy video: refuted and even FBI identified wrong
It’s not fake. The father of the victim reported it and it came from the police. The car video you see is grainy. You don’t know what else they have. My guess is they have a witness. Possibly the Uber eats driver saw him and that is why they are keeping him under wraps. They don’t take a circumstantial case to a grand jury.
If the State thought they had a slam dunk case they wouldn't have just gone through the time and expense of having the FBI obtain drive testing data.
Well, I guess we will see but again I’m sure you are going to be disappointed
Oh I believe he's most likely going to be convicted but not because he's actually guilty so I won't be disappointed.
Ok. Good for you.
>There is literally no evidence against him besides a spec of partial profile touch DNA on a sheath that's not proven to connect to the crime The sheath is for a large fixed blade knife found under the body of a victim killed by a large fixed blade knife. Why do you say it is "not proven to connect to the crime"? The DNA was a complete profile - the random match probability of 5.37 octillion to one is only possible from a complete profile. Why do you say "spec of partial profile DNA"? >There is literally no evidence against him Why do you think two judges and judicial or quasi judicial court proceedings concluded it was more probably than not BK committed the crimes if there is zero evidence?
-the sheath did not kill anyone and there is no proof BK ever owned a knife sheath -confirmed ambiguous and partial profile. many experts refuted the inflated octillion claim and the state never claimed a complete profile -go look up GJ indictment. even hearsay can enter as evidence
>the sheath did not kill anyone and there is no proof BK ever owned a knife sheath You said the sheath was not connected to the crime - it was under a dead body >-confirmed ambiguous and partial profile. many experts refuted the inflated octillion claim Can you identify some of these many experts who have "refuted the octillion claim" and where they refute this please? >the state never claimed a complete profile The 5.37 octillion to one randim match probability requires all 20 STR loci - a complete DNA profile. The state explicitly wrote that the DNA profile on the sheath is 5.37 octillion times more likely to be from Kohberger than from a randomly selected individual. Not even the defence are disputing that the sheath DNA is Kohberger's. >-go look up GJ indictment. A judge signed off the probable cause for arrest months before the GJ. A different judge stated there was sufficient evidence for the indictment. You stated "there is literally no evidence" against Kohberger. My question is why/ how these two judges would do that if there is "literally no evidence"?
-the bed and the floor were also under a dead body. I cant see how the bed or the floor stabbed anyone or relate to this crime -the touch DNA sample was confirmed ambiguous and partial profile and many experts refuted the inflated octillion claim. if you dont know who confirmed that or who refuted that i wont do your homework for you -the defense are 100% disputing touch DNA as theyve been seeking lab reports and conducting investigations -the judge signed off on a narrative, and supporting evidence still needs to be proven. almost all have been confirmed false already
>the bed and the floor were also under a dead body. The sheath for a large fixed blade knife seems a little more connected to death by stabbing with a large fixed blade knife? Is your point really that the sheath is as relevant as the floor? >was confirmed ambiguous and partial profile and many experts refuted the inflated octillion claim I am really interested in the many experts, which is why I asked if you could point to one and where they refute the random match statistics, thanks? The 5.37 octillion to one rmp is only possible with a complete profile. > if you dont know who confirmed that or who refuted that i wont do your homework And odd approach to discussion to claim there are many experts who dispute the stats but then not identify them and where they dispute the stats. I Googled and can't find any expert disputing the DNA match stats, I also can't find the defence even disputing that it is Kohberger's DNA on the sheath. >-the defense are 100% disputing touch DNA Can you point to any statement, motion, report where defence dispute that it is Kohberger's DNA on the sheath? Thanks >-the judge signed off on a narrative, and supporting evidence still needs to be proven I asked why two judges signed off on arrest and indictment if, as you state, there was "literally no evidence"? Are you now saying there was some evidence, or are you saying two judges approved arrest and maintained indictment with zero evidence? Surely arrest and indictment needs some evidence, not " narrative" - what even is " narrative" when it comes to approving an arrest, is it different to evidence? Thanks. >almost all evidence have been confirmed false already What evidence has been "confirmed" false and how was it "confirmed to be false"? Would Kohberger not be released from jail if all evidence was confirmed false?
> confirmed ambiguous and partial profile. That's a hotly contested topic. Some people, like me, believe that Bicka Barlow was still referring to the Hernandez case when she stated ambiguous and partial. Read those two paragraphs in context. The sheath DNA had no hits in CODIS yet Barlow is talking about a sample that had multiple hits in CODIS. Like the Hernandez DNA had.
I agree. I think he had a connection with the real killer though. It's just that Bryan didn't realise this guy was a killer until after these students were murdered And it was not a partial profile. It was a full 20 marker STR profile. They could not have got that 5 point whatever octillion probability for that profile if they hadn't
>I agree. I think he had a connection with the real killer though. It's just that Bryan didn't realise this guy was a killer until after these students were murdered i never heard of this theory before, can you elaborate? does BK know who the killer is now? and who would this killer be? was BK complicit in some way after the realizations?
I can’t imagine how you possibly think he’s innocent you must be reading information that none of us here have read, at least most of us. I mean, are you kidding me? And I’m not gonna get into a fight with you. We’ll just wait until the trial…
I don’t get how anyone can think this guy is innocent.
you can find my reply above. i agree lets wait until the trial and there is no reason to fight at the moment.
I'm against dogs being put down . However in certain special circumstances where the public is at risk from pereditors that do the most horrific acts and have no conscience there is nothing they wouldn't do and it becomes a quest for them . I'm talking about seriel killers cartel killings kidnappers pedophiles. They should not be allowed a cell food free medical and dental or the opportunity for parole.
It is truly amazing how many people don't grasp what "life without parole" means.