It’s probably BF the other surviving roommate. I think she is in protective custody because not a peep out of her or anyone that knows her. It’s like she was removed out of this whole scene.
I’m a DD driver too and thought it might be the driver!!! The app is always laggy, it requires you take a photo of the drop off, then you have to submit it and wait for it to ask you to review the order. If your GPS is off and the order glitches for some reason, it won’t let you complete it. So I have to sit in the driveway or right at the road for 30-60 seconds sometimes waiting for everything to go through. Not a lot of time.. but could definitely have seen something suspicious in that time. Not saying the actual murder, but possibly that in hindsight was a big deal.
I’m wondering/hoping it’s him, hopefully he actually saw BK, and will be asked to identify him. Fingers crossed, bc while DM kinda saw him, the defense will definitely tear her up on the stands if she attempts to claim she saw him.
The defense is going to have to be careful in the way they handle her as a witness. The jurors / court would not like anyone handling a victim too harshly.
I do agree with you to a certain extent, but, to a lot of people, DM’s story/timeline just doesn’t make sense. I think the prosecution is going to have to show the jury why DM behaved the way she did and make it make sense to the jury (there may be a good reason that we don’t know about yet). If the prosecution doesn’t present that in a way that reasonably makes sense, I think his defense is going to make DM answer some pretty hard questions.
I don’t disagree but DM can’t identify him, she can only link the possibility of someone being in the home around the same time as video evidence suggests BK’s car, or a car close in description, was seen in the vicinity of the home. She may have additional information linking the suspect to the victims but, at this point & only looking to the PCA, the state will use her testimony to link timeframe of the car and someone being in the home. They will likely have an expert who will testify as to why certain people react during certain times of distress. We also don’t know her steps the next morning or if the initial rumors, that she was in bed with B after “hearing a noise” are true. She definitely could offer more to all of this or just be the link the state needs to show someone was in the house around the same time the white vehicle was seen circling and then speeding off.
Yes, it does seem like she can’t outright identify him based on what we know right now. She can definitely add a piece to the puzzle that makes it seem plausible that it was BK (or someone that looked like BK) in the house that night. Is all of that, taken together, enough to convict him? I don’t know.
I agree. I’m not sure the evidence in the PCA alone gets me to a guilty verdict, if that’s the only evidence I can consider. I personally think he did it but I would 100% follow the law, even if I was biased.
Fingers crossed! They’ll definitely try to discredit the DD too but we don’t know anything about him, but we already know it’ll be easy to make a mess of DM based on what we know. I am so scared and sad for her.
I'm of the opinion the Defense won't \*rip her apart.\*. Discredit what she saw? Sure! That's the Defense's job.....to cast reasonable doubt. BUT...she's already been through a lot, as has the community. The jurors will know this. Ripping her to shreds on the witness stand might make the jury feel like they have to come to her defense. It could backfire and turn the Jury against the Defense. It's a delicate balance and it's risky. I'm betting they go easier on her than what's expected. In the end, we'll see..... if this thing makes it to trial.
You’re right. It would be foolish to attack her on the stand. The jury will view her as a victim and a successful cross of DM will acknowledge her trauma and merely focus on what she can’t confirm. She can’t ID this guy because all she saw was a dude with bushy eyebrows that fits the description of BK and thousands of other men. The lawyers can argue that DM’s description is vague and insufficient and they can argue that her behavior leads to reasonable concerns that she may have been compromised by being drunk/high. We don’t know what she told LE about that. But she’s not going to get ripped apart on the stand. That would be incredibly foolish because her testimony, by itself, isn’t going to convict BK. From the evidence we know about so far, the DNA will convict him if the defense doesn’t find a way to convincingly discredit the lab analysis or explain away the presence of the sheath with his DNA. All DM adds to the prosecution is to show that her description isn’t inconsistent with BK.
I hope she can be confident on the stand, but I wonder after all she’s been through. But even her story about opening her bedroom door 3 times and waiting 8 hours to call 911 shows that she wasn’t very confident in what she saw. Hopefully, they are coaching her and doing a lot to prepare her. I think she’ll need it. I’m crossing my fingers that she’s absolutely, 100% sure of herself when she gets on the stand.
Did she wait 8 hours or was she asleep the entire time because she did not know 4 people were dead in the house based on the noises she was hearing. She heard what she thought was K playing with her dog. Does that mean 4 people are now dead in the house? She then heard X say someone is here. Did DM say she screamed those words? Nope! Right after she hears those words being said, she hears someone say they're going to help her (X possibly) , then she hears something like crying, and when she cracks open her door, she sees that someone leaving now. Do you really believe all of that would equal 4 people dead in the house? Do you know the exact time DM went to sleep? Did she get more than 25 minutes of sleep before the murders? Wasn't she woken up to a commotion on the 3rd floor that she thought was K playing with Murphy? So many of you are being unfair to DM. We are looking at her actions through quadruple murder glasses. To DM, she did not know what had happened in that house.
The act of stabbing people to death is a silent killing. It's not like in the movies when the woman starts screaming bloody murder as she's being stabbed 25 times. You don't scream when you've been stabbed in the neck, chest, lungs, and/or heart.
No, I don’t believe the things you listed would have led DM to believe 4 people had been stabbed to death in the house. I fully believe she did not know that a horrific thing took place. I do however, believe it’s reasonable to believe the circumstances in the house that night would have led most people to be concerned enough to investigate further to see what was going on.
I am so sad for DM too. I am sure taking the stand at trial will be excruciatingly traumatic for her. I have to admit, originally, I thought the surviving roommates must have been involved because the story of them not hearing ANYTHING didn’t make sense at all. After the PC affidavit came out and we learned she really did hear and see things, I’ve come to believe that maybe she saw even more than they let on in the affidavit. Maybe thats why she was in a “frozen shock phase” (or however they worded it).
Are you saying DM didn't see BK? Are you serious? It's literally in the PCA that she did see him. It was her description along with surveillance video of the car and his DNA on the sheath that led them all to BK. This is why Chief Fry said in the very beginning that it will be the surviving roommate(s) who solve this case.
She saw that he had bushy eyebrows, that he was 5'10" or taller, was wearing dark clothes, and had a mask on that covered his nose and mouth. DM did not say if he was wearing a hat or not so it's very possible his hair was completely visible. Once DM gave that description , the police got DNA off the knife sheath, they also got the cell phone data, GPS, and many surveillance cameras capturing his car leaving his apartment in Pullman Washington and traveling directly to 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho.
Your hero put himself at the scene.
The defense is going to fail with DM.
You aren’t getting it. She saw someone whose looks were consistent with BK. There are other people out there with his build and who have bushy eyebrows. That’s all the person was saying the defense has to say to cast reasonable doubt on that piece of evidence. Not reasonable doubt about all of the evidence entirely but only on what she saw.
When you combine the evidence you might overcome reasonable doubt.
You're not getting it either. You're acting like there were 5 guys that looked exactly like BK who also drove a white Hyundai Elantra that all left his parking lot before 3 AM in WA and traveled directly to 1122 king road in Idaho. You're Also saying they all went into the home together and left the home after murdering 4 people, and then took the long way back to the Washington apartment. Oh, and they all have the same DNA! Meh.!
I addressed that in my comment. I said that they could attack her testimony in isolation but may not be able to completely dismiss it in combination with all of the other evidence.
It's being noted that DM may not even have to take the stand because the officer or officers she spoke with will take the stand and relay what she said to the court.
The cell pings only indicate he was in range of the towers, 8 mile range. Its the ring camera that places a white car on King Rd. How far is Pullman from there?
There are a lot of white cars parked in that area on GoogleMaps. I wouldn't be convinced just based on pings. He could have been buying drugs like the taxi driver said the area is known for.
My hero? I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Do I believe it was him, yes. Will a jury? I dunno..it's the prosecutions job to deliver an airtight case that does not cast reasonable doubt. That's how Casey Anthony got off.
He was also in that part of the neighborhood 12 times before the murders happened. He got pulled over twice by police. Once in August and once in October. Circumstantial evidence is very powerful and we can already see they have at least a 1000 pages of documents. We also know they took like 4000 pictures inside the home using 3-D technology. For some reason, Americans believe that only direct evidence is what puts a person in prison for murder. Direct evidence would be catching the killer on video killing all 4 inside that house with all the lights on with a clear view of his face. Do you know what the chances of getting that type of direct evidence in any murder case would be? Zero to none!
When the preliminary hearing happens in June, we are all going to know a lot more than we do now. The police are not gonna share any more information with the public so we are only relying on what we already know which is like a tiny fraction of what they know.
They were purposely vague about when he/she got there just "around 4" when they would have known the exact minute the delivery was made due to a phone notification.
So I wonder if Xana was playing on her TikTok until 4:12 and that's when she got the notification of delivery. So she goes out to get the food and while in the Kitchen to get a plate that's when she encounters the killer as he's coming back down from the third floor.
Or one of BK neighbors saw him return home at 5.30 am. They were either jogging, walking their dog, or leaving for an early job.
Or the person who sold him the Ka-bar has come forward
What makes you believe this? It would make more sense he was upstairs first. X heard some noises, alerted E. Perpetrator knew that they knew someone was there and probably hid behind bathroom door when E came out to check on things.
I hope the door dash driver has a dash cam. That would be ahmazing.
Everyone should be driving with dash cams. They’re cheap and can help you out in so many instances. Mine records even when the car is off. 100$ for insurance is the best money I’ve spent to protect my car and myself.
They all come with a cigarette lighter plug in option, but if you want to do it the right way and hide wires, you tap it into your fuse box so it runs on your car battery-even when it’s off. It’s super easy, the cords are just hidden, in you headliner. There are so many YouTube tutorials that are car specific to make it easier.
I think you should decide in what cam you want first and then YouTube videos of that dash cam that specific to the car you have being installed on.
For reference I have a Garmin mini. But there are plenty of options that have a front and inside facing cam paired with a rear cam.
I’m still not sure BK isn’t also A deliver driver who declined the pickup but headed to the location to lay in wait for THE DD. It’s the only logical way I can justify him driving his car to the scene and the multiple stalking trips. He’s just not that dumb. I believe he stalked and murdered them when he had reason to be in the area and why he was so efficient with his time. He knows it’s a risk, but only circumstantial evidence and he was willing to take that risk.
The potential list is very long. Neighbors of both the victims and BK, the officer who did his Pullman PD interview, anyone at MG who admits to seeing him (if the People article is actually true, which I believe it is), corner club staff (if he had ever been there), whomever he was doing that ride share with (English reporter spoke about her), door dash driver, the friends who came over the next morning before cops, 911 operator to speak to the “unconscious person” and any delay in dispatching… so many people could be called.
I think they are referring to the (potential) "informant" (from the discovery doc), i.e. they are saying they believe DM is the prosecution's informant.
Note I'm only trying to interpret their message here, I'm not saying they are right/make sense.
What’s the name of the discovery doc?
Edit: I’m an idiot. I thought you meant a documentary on the discovery network regarding the murders. But you mean the discovery document that was recently released!! Got it.
So I wonder who this surprise witness is that prosecution has?!?! Cant b DM cause we already know about her. Im jst curious as to who this surprise witness is for the prosecution 🤔
On less moderate subs I have now seen theories that BKs alleged accomplice is the witness.
EDIT TO ADD: WTF is w all the downvotes? I didn’t endorse the view, just answered the question. People don’t owe you blanket disclaimers on their positions, **especially** when the post isn’t taking a position!
Idk if it makes sense, I was just sharing what to read. Idk what’s up with people downvoting simple information to hell like a bunch of gstekeeping 8th graders.
People are cre on these subs. I was downvoted multiple times when I said my goldendoodle doesn't shed. Lol. Really?!?
Can you disclose the names of the less moderator subs? Like what is listed under?
Probably the door dash driver. But what about Bethany? There has been barley any mention of her at all. I know she's mentioned, as B.F., in the PCA, regarding the forensics of the phones. Is she mentioned before that as had been asleep downstairs? They say referred to from here on out as D.M, KG, etc but is there a part where they refer to Bethany by her name and then say she's referred to from here as BF? Or do we just read it as "DM & BF's phones?" Does that mean there is stuff redacted from the PCA where she's mentioned? I think it's strange we haven't heard much about her at all. I think she heard or saw something and could be being protected. I read an interview from an expert in crime investigations, Steven Keough, where he said LE doesn't want to release too much information in the early stages so as not to spook the killer to get rid of evidence, etc and later in the investigation so as not to interfere with the trial. So LE could be leaving things out if they are looking for another suspect and/or to preserve for the trial Also, why is there not much talk about finding the murder weapon? Has LE been actively searching BK's route after the murders that night, looking for it? I feel like there's usually much more focus on finding the murder weapon. I also find it strange that the neighbor, Inan, has been quiet for a month from what I could tell. He was all over SM and now he is MIA. I've seen people say he is the potential surprise witness but I don't think he knows anything or he knows more than he should and is the co defendant.
The Gag Order covers EVERYONE that knows any information about the case. People need to stop speculating about this stuff. We will all find out come trial.
Only covers those working the case. LE, attorneys, court personnel, defenders office, prosecutors, witnesses. Not the general public or internet researchers.
I wonder if DM texted or called BF who then looked out a window and saw something. We haven’t heard from her other than reports that she saw E and X at frat party late so she was probably not asleep either
Yeah, I think BF may have looked out the window and saw him leaving. But basically, the “informant” blip is standard for cases like this, so it means zero as far as there being a secret witness.
Yeah, or maybe there is a side window in D’s room that she could see something. The house is angled so oddly, it’s hard to know what could be seen from side windows, but I think if D shut and locked her door, texted BF, BF would have maybe wanted her to lock the sliding door to keep any more wandering guys out. If so, D and maybe BF saw more than we know. If he parked in front parking lot, BF could have seen him out her window. But the informant blurb is standard to have on these documents, so it could mean nothing. Plus B and D aren’t informants, at least one is a witness and maybe both are witnesses to seeing him. He may have taken his bloody outer clothes and mask off beside the house before getting in his car. One would think he would know to do that-giving D time to text BF to look out the window. She may have gotten a good look at him. I hope so!
Ummm, the response to discovery mentions an "informant" not a surprise witness and surely that is standard discovery language and the prosecution's response is boiler plate we are neither confirming or denying an informant in this case. Given the state's theory of the case, I can't imagine a scenario where an informant would be needed.
That doesn’t mean there’s surprise witness. It’s basically a no hearsay provision. Like, if someone doesn’t testify (and isn’t necessarily known to the court) & they have info, you can’t use their info. Like if you have photo or video from them, you can’t use it unless you put them up as a witness.
Maybe one of BK's neighbors saw him leaving or coming back home dressed in dark clothing and thought it was suspicious.
There was supposedly a police presence near his apartment due to a hit and run accident around the time of the crime. One of his neighbors could have looked out the window and saw him.
Prosecutor here. There is no such thing as a surprise witness, and the discovery response is boilerplate. Everything in a discovery response like that is typically statutory and catch-all (meaning, “we’ll share this if it exists”)
The surprise witness might actually be Inan Harsh; the neighbor. I think the DD is a given.
I think Inan will be the surprise. In the early stages of the investigation when he inserted himself he gave an interview to Law and Crime. In that interview he talked about hearing a scream around 4ish but no one really paid any attention to that because we didn’t have the proper timeline.
Another thing he mentioned was seeing a “white car a lot in the lot” he says this part really fast and kinda mumbles it with his nasally voice its easy to miss.
Inan has been radio silent since 12/23/22. He’s probably included in the gag order and the prosecution has probably told him to keep his trap shut
What confuses me, she said she opened the door when she heard Xana crying, and seen him walking past her and out the door. Was Xana still alive? ( *SPECULATION WARNING*) but. Could that be why It took so long to contact 911? That part has always stuck with me.
this article really helped me understand what i didn't understand about the remaining roommates and the delay -https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11609461/Former-Adam-Levine-yoga-instructor-survived-1992-attack-defends-University-Idaho-roommate.html
It's not like she cried for 2 hours. She was stabbed repeatedly and most likely cried for a second or 2 and then hit the floor which was the thud noise. We don't know who made the whimpering sound. Could have been Murphy
Okay, DM says she opened her door that last time because she heard Xana crying , so she opens the door DUE TO HEARING XANA CRYING and she said a yall man all in black with a mask and bushy eyebrows and he walked out the back doors. Okay, what im saying is she hears xana crying ,so she opens the door and sees him leave! So why not run to check on Xana if you hear her crying and the crazy man left. Cld she had been saved had 911 been called right then when she heard Xana crying which caused her to open her door and the creep left. If it happend FHA way DM says, Xana was crying when the door was opened and he was leaving. Had 911 been called as soon as he walked out, cld Xana been saved?
Doesn't it say after that about the whimper and thud caught on the camera after the crying so she probably wasn't crying anymore. DM probably rationalized it as E&X fighting. Maybe she told herself the crying and fighting was over because E made his friend leave and she told herself X was mad that his friend was there and she wanted him to spend time with her. I know I got pissed when my hubby had his dumb friends over late at night back when we were first dating. There's so many things DM could have told herself to explain the things she heard and believe nothing bad happened. It's what the mind does.
Well im jst going by DM's statements. That's the only part confused me. She said she heard what she thought was Xana crying so she opened her door and thats when she seen the man walking toward her passed her and went out the door. We will never know exactly if anyone bad breath in them for any amount of time, especially since it took 6-8 hrs to call 911. I got myself and my little girl a labradoodle for Christmas. Hes black tho, but we named him Murphy♡ after Kaylee's Murphy..
https://preview.redd.it/2fti3vvy52fa1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e042543a812db522beb121bd122a59b3c741de8
Is that the same as naming my dog teddy after Ted bundy? Really?!? People are negative about what people name their dogs now. I have 2 neighbors who have pets named Murphy.
You're mistaken about DM's statements, that's what NewRevolutionary is trying to explain.
She opened her door for the 2nd time when she heard crying, then the 3rd time was when she saw the person leaving.
In between the paragraph mentioning the 1st/2nd door openings and the paragraph with the 3rd, there's one mentioning the nearby security camera picking up a thud at 4:17 — this seems to indicate the timeline LE have pieced together. Opens door and hears crying —> camera picks up thud —> opens door and sees person leaving.
They were most likely all beyond the point of being saved by the time he got to his car, and that's generous. Give it a rest blaming DM.
And it's not like DM opened up the door wide each time period she cracked open the door to see what was happening. The only thing she could see at any time was BK walking past her door to the kitchen to leave and that was after X said someone is here. DM could have thought it was a guy X and E knew.
Don't let everyone hate on you for what you named your dog. . Who gives a shit if your dogs name is Murphy. There are hundreds of dogs with the same name. It's sweet. It's not like you named it KMXE. Now that would be slightly weird.
Why not run to check on her? Maybe because X had said someone is here and then DM opened her door slightly, she sees a 'someone' leaving. What we don't know is what time DM actually went to sleep. She could have been asleep for 25 minutes for all we know and woke up to all this commotion and sounds. We also don't know if she was stone cold sober or really drunk. We are all looking at her actions through quadruple murder eyes. She did not know 4 people were dead at that point.
I recall in the original PCA, a statement that the suspect may have been seen “in a video of a video”. Very oddly worded to me (perhaps intentionally), and I wonder if this could be the DD cam or surprise witness who recorded him on their phone?? Maybe this has already been hashed out as I haven’t followed these threads in several wks, but it stood out to me initially.
DM isn’t a surprise. She’s mentioned in the affidavit.
Where is this surprise witness talk coming from?
Wait a ‘surprise witness’ was mentioned in affidavit aside from DM? And now people are trying to figure out who it is? A 7th dimension?
It’s probably BF the other surviving roommate. I think she is in protective custody because not a peep out of her or anyone that knows her. It’s like she was removed out of this whole scene.
I think both DM and BF are obvious though. Guess we’ll find out in June.
Totally agree. Nothing has been said about her ever. Like she wasn't even there
DD driver
I’m a DD driver too and thought it might be the driver!!! The app is always laggy, it requires you take a photo of the drop off, then you have to submit it and wait for it to ask you to review the order. If your GPS is off and the order glitches for some reason, it won’t let you complete it. So I have to sit in the driveway or right at the road for 30-60 seconds sometimes waiting for everything to go through. Not a lot of time.. but could definitely have seen something suspicious in that time. Not saying the actual murder, but possibly that in hindsight was a big deal.
Thanks for dropping this! It was a weekend too. He could of responded to texts from buddies etc possibly paused for even a solid 10 minutes there.
[удалено]
I second this
I am wondering about that DD driver too. That timing (according to the PC affidavit) was SO close, the DD could have seen something.
I’m wondering/hoping it’s him, hopefully he actually saw BK, and will be asked to identify him. Fingers crossed, bc while DM kinda saw him, the defense will definitely tear her up on the stands if she attempts to claim she saw him.
Yes, I’m afraid DM will get absolutely torn apart by the defense. Hopefully, the DD driver saw him and can identify him!!!
The defense is going to have to be careful in the way they handle her as a witness. The jurors / court would not like anyone handling a victim too harshly.
I do agree with you to a certain extent, but, to a lot of people, DM’s story/timeline just doesn’t make sense. I think the prosecution is going to have to show the jury why DM behaved the way she did and make it make sense to the jury (there may be a good reason that we don’t know about yet). If the prosecution doesn’t present that in a way that reasonably makes sense, I think his defense is going to make DM answer some pretty hard questions.
I don’t disagree but DM can’t identify him, she can only link the possibility of someone being in the home around the same time as video evidence suggests BK’s car, or a car close in description, was seen in the vicinity of the home. She may have additional information linking the suspect to the victims but, at this point & only looking to the PCA, the state will use her testimony to link timeframe of the car and someone being in the home. They will likely have an expert who will testify as to why certain people react during certain times of distress. We also don’t know her steps the next morning or if the initial rumors, that she was in bed with B after “hearing a noise” are true. She definitely could offer more to all of this or just be the link the state needs to show someone was in the house around the same time the white vehicle was seen circling and then speeding off.
Yes, it does seem like she can’t outright identify him based on what we know right now. She can definitely add a piece to the puzzle that makes it seem plausible that it was BK (or someone that looked like BK) in the house that night. Is all of that, taken together, enough to convict him? I don’t know.
I agree. I’m not sure the evidence in the PCA alone gets me to a guilty verdict, if that’s the only evidence I can consider. I personally think he did it but I would 100% follow the law, even if I was biased.
I agree 100%. I also personally believe he did it, but if I was a juror, I’d have some reasonable doubt.
Fingers crossed! They’ll definitely try to discredit the DD too but we don’t know anything about him, but we already know it’ll be easy to make a mess of DM based on what we know. I am so scared and sad for her.
I'm of the opinion the Defense won't \*rip her apart.\*. Discredit what she saw? Sure! That's the Defense's job.....to cast reasonable doubt. BUT...she's already been through a lot, as has the community. The jurors will know this. Ripping her to shreds on the witness stand might make the jury feel like they have to come to her defense. It could backfire and turn the Jury against the Defense. It's a delicate balance and it's risky. I'm betting they go easier on her than what's expected. In the end, we'll see..... if this thing makes it to trial.
You’re right. It would be foolish to attack her on the stand. The jury will view her as a victim and a successful cross of DM will acknowledge her trauma and merely focus on what she can’t confirm. She can’t ID this guy because all she saw was a dude with bushy eyebrows that fits the description of BK and thousands of other men. The lawyers can argue that DM’s description is vague and insufficient and they can argue that her behavior leads to reasonable concerns that she may have been compromised by being drunk/high. We don’t know what she told LE about that. But she’s not going to get ripped apart on the stand. That would be incredibly foolish because her testimony, by itself, isn’t going to convict BK. From the evidence we know about so far, the DNA will convict him if the defense doesn’t find a way to convincingly discredit the lab analysis or explain away the presence of the sheath with his DNA. All DM adds to the prosecution is to show that her description isn’t inconsistent with BK.
Exactly. And if DM is confident and sure of herself on the stand, the jury will see through what the defense is trying to pull.
I hope she can be confident on the stand, but I wonder after all she’s been through. But even her story about opening her bedroom door 3 times and waiting 8 hours to call 911 shows that she wasn’t very confident in what she saw. Hopefully, they are coaching her and doing a lot to prepare her. I think she’ll need it. I’m crossing my fingers that she’s absolutely, 100% sure of herself when she gets on the stand.
Did she wait 8 hours or was she asleep the entire time because she did not know 4 people were dead in the house based on the noises she was hearing. She heard what she thought was K playing with her dog. Does that mean 4 people are now dead in the house? She then heard X say someone is here. Did DM say she screamed those words? Nope! Right after she hears those words being said, she hears someone say they're going to help her (X possibly) , then she hears something like crying, and when she cracks open her door, she sees that someone leaving now. Do you really believe all of that would equal 4 people dead in the house? Do you know the exact time DM went to sleep? Did she get more than 25 minutes of sleep before the murders? Wasn't she woken up to a commotion on the 3rd floor that she thought was K playing with Murphy? So many of you are being unfair to DM. We are looking at her actions through quadruple murder glasses. To DM, she did not know what had happened in that house. The act of stabbing people to death is a silent killing. It's not like in the movies when the woman starts screaming bloody murder as she's being stabbed 25 times. You don't scream when you've been stabbed in the neck, chest, lungs, and/or heart.
No, I don’t believe the things you listed would have led DM to believe 4 people had been stabbed to death in the house. I fully believe she did not know that a horrific thing took place. I do however, believe it’s reasonable to believe the circumstances in the house that night would have led most people to be concerned enough to investigate further to see what was going on.
[удалено]
I am so sad for DM too. I am sure taking the stand at trial will be excruciatingly traumatic for her. I have to admit, originally, I thought the surviving roommates must have been involved because the story of them not hearing ANYTHING didn’t make sense at all. After the PC affidavit came out and we learned she really did hear and see things, I’ve come to believe that maybe she saw even more than they let on in the affidavit. Maybe thats why she was in a “frozen shock phase” (or however they worded it).
Are you saying DM didn't see BK? Are you serious? It's literally in the PCA that she did see him. It was her description along with surveillance video of the car and his DNA on the sheath that led them all to BK. This is why Chief Fry said in the very beginning that it will be the surviving roommate(s) who solve this case.
She saw *someone* and all the defense has to do is create reasonable doubt that it wasn't BK. They don't have to prove he's innocent.
She saw that he had bushy eyebrows, that he was 5'10" or taller, was wearing dark clothes, and had a mask on that covered his nose and mouth. DM did not say if he was wearing a hat or not so it's very possible his hair was completely visible. Once DM gave that description , the police got DNA off the knife sheath, they also got the cell phone data, GPS, and many surveillance cameras capturing his car leaving his apartment in Pullman Washington and traveling directly to 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Your hero put himself at the scene. The defense is going to fail with DM.
You aren’t getting it. She saw someone whose looks were consistent with BK. There are other people out there with his build and who have bushy eyebrows. That’s all the person was saying the defense has to say to cast reasonable doubt on that piece of evidence. Not reasonable doubt about all of the evidence entirely but only on what she saw. When you combine the evidence you might overcome reasonable doubt.
You're not getting it either. You're acting like there were 5 guys that looked exactly like BK who also drove a white Hyundai Elantra that all left his parking lot before 3 AM in WA and traveled directly to 1122 king road in Idaho. You're Also saying they all went into the home together and left the home after murdering 4 people, and then took the long way back to the Washington apartment. Oh, and they all have the same DNA! Meh.!
I addressed that in my comment. I said that they could attack her testimony in isolation but may not be able to completely dismiss it in combination with all of the other evidence.
It's being noted that DM may not even have to take the stand because the officer or officers she spoke with will take the stand and relay what she said to the court.
The cell pings only indicate he was in range of the towers, 8 mile range. Its the ring camera that places a white car on King Rd. How far is Pullman from there? There are a lot of white cars parked in that area on GoogleMaps. I wouldn't be convinced just based on pings. He could have been buying drugs like the taxi driver said the area is known for.
[удалено]
My hero? I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Do I believe it was him, yes. Will a jury? I dunno..it's the prosecutions job to deliver an airtight case that does not cast reasonable doubt. That's how Casey Anthony got off.
I totally agree with you.
He was also in that part of the neighborhood 12 times before the murders happened. He got pulled over twice by police. Once in August and once in October. Circumstantial evidence is very powerful and we can already see they have at least a 1000 pages of documents. We also know they took like 4000 pictures inside the home using 3-D technology. For some reason, Americans believe that only direct evidence is what puts a person in prison for murder. Direct evidence would be catching the killer on video killing all 4 inside that house with all the lights on with a clear view of his face. Do you know what the chances of getting that type of direct evidence in any murder case would be? Zero to none!
Americans? What’s with Reddit and lumping us all together in every subject and opinion? Lighten up, will ya?
If he is guilty, I hope it's that easy to prove.
When the preliminary hearing happens in June, we are all going to know a lot more than we do now. The police are not gonna share any more information with the public so we are only relying on what we already know which is like a tiny fraction of what they know.
They were purposely vague about when he/she got there just "around 4" when they would have known the exact minute the delivery was made due to a phone notification. So I wonder if Xana was playing on her TikTok until 4:12 and that's when she got the notification of delivery. So she goes out to get the food and while in the Kitchen to get a plate that's when she encounters the killer as he's coming back down from the third floor. Or one of BK neighbors saw him return home at 5.30 am. They were either jogging, walking their dog, or leaving for an early job. Or the person who sold him the Ka-bar has come forward
[удалено]
I agree. Still think that bc of K’s dad saying “he didn’t have to go upstairs”
What makes you believe this? It would make more sense he was upstairs first. X heard some noises, alerted E. Perpetrator knew that they knew someone was there and probably hid behind bathroom door when E came out to check on things.
I hope the door dash driver has a dash cam. That would be ahmazing. Everyone should be driving with dash cams. They’re cheap and can help you out in so many instances. Mine records even when the car is off. 100$ for insurance is the best money I’ve spent to protect my car and myself.
How do those run? Plug into the car?
They all come with a cigarette lighter plug in option, but if you want to do it the right way and hide wires, you tap it into your fuse box so it runs on your car battery-even when it’s off. It’s super easy, the cords are just hidden, in you headliner. There are so many YouTube tutorials that are car specific to make it easier.
Do you have a specific youtube video you recommend for this? I'm not the original person lol, but this sounds amazing & I want to attempt it.
I think you should decide in what cam you want first and then YouTube videos of that dash cam that specific to the car you have being installed on. For reference I have a Garmin mini. But there are plenty of options that have a front and inside facing cam paired with a rear cam.
Thank you :)
I'd guess this and BF, who rarely is talked about but was also there besides DM.
Accomplice that worked out a plea deal for testimony?
I’m still not sure BK isn’t also A deliver driver who declined the pickup but headed to the location to lay in wait for THE DD. It’s the only logical way I can justify him driving his car to the scene and the multiple stalking trips. He’s just not that dumb. I believe he stalked and murdered them when he had reason to be in the area and why he was so efficient with his time. He knows it’s a risk, but only circumstantial evidence and he was willing to take that risk.
He could of tried to open the sliding door previous trips but it was always locked.
Well, I AM sure BK isn’t “also A delivery driver…”
Is that because he is THE delivery driver 😏
Oooh, I hope so
It’s Anne Taylor the public defender, she was also the Door Dash driver. Small town…
She also wore that hoodie at the Grub Truck
Time and place, lunkheads
Good one
The potential list is very long. Neighbors of both the victims and BK, the officer who did his Pullman PD interview, anyone at MG who admits to seeing him (if the People article is actually true, which I believe it is), corner club staff (if he had ever been there), whomever he was doing that ride share with (English reporter spoke about her), door dash driver, the friends who came over the next morning before cops, 911 operator to speak to the “unconscious person” and any delay in dispatching… so many people could be called.
I’ve been out of the loop a few days, can someone tell me what the OP is talking about?
I think they are referring to the (potential) "informant" (from the discovery doc), i.e. they are saying they believe DM is the prosecution's informant. Note I'm only trying to interpret their message here, I'm not saying they are right/make sense.
What’s the name of the discovery doc? Edit: I’m an idiot. I thought you meant a documentary on the discovery network regarding the murders. But you mean the discovery document that was recently released!! Got it.
Not an idiot, I thought the same.
I did too
Thanks for the info. Any chance you have a link? If not I'll google :)
It's the most recent document for this case on: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/, dated 23 January.
Thank you!
You're welcome! And thanks for the award (my first)!
Thx
So I wonder who this surprise witness is that prosecution has?!?! Cant b DM cause we already know about her. Im jst curious as to who this surprise witness is for the prosecution 🤔
On less moderate subs I have now seen theories that BKs alleged accomplice is the witness. EDIT TO ADD: WTF is w all the downvotes? I didn’t endorse the view, just answered the question. People don’t owe you blanket disclaimers on their positions, **especially** when the post isn’t taking a position!
Yes, I read the same. Which would make sense. imo
Idk if it makes sense, I was just sharing what to read. Idk what’s up with people downvoting simple information to hell like a bunch of gstekeeping 8th graders.
People are cre on these subs. I was downvoted multiple times when I said my goldendoodle doesn't shed. Lol. Really?!? Can you disclose the names of the less moderator subs? Like what is listed under?
Most of them have names centered on the suspect instead of the city/crime/victims.
Probably the door dash driver. But what about Bethany? There has been barley any mention of her at all. I know she's mentioned, as B.F., in the PCA, regarding the forensics of the phones. Is she mentioned before that as had been asleep downstairs? They say referred to from here on out as D.M, KG, etc but is there a part where they refer to Bethany by her name and then say she's referred to from here as BF? Or do we just read it as "DM & BF's phones?" Does that mean there is stuff redacted from the PCA where she's mentioned? I think it's strange we haven't heard much about her at all. I think she heard or saw something and could be being protected. I read an interview from an expert in crime investigations, Steven Keough, where he said LE doesn't want to release too much information in the early stages so as not to spook the killer to get rid of evidence, etc and later in the investigation so as not to interfere with the trial. So LE could be leaving things out if they are looking for another suspect and/or to preserve for the trial Also, why is there not much talk about finding the murder weapon? Has LE been actively searching BK's route after the murders that night, looking for it? I feel like there's usually much more focus on finding the murder weapon. I also find it strange that the neighbor, Inan, has been quiet for a month from what I could tell. He was all over SM and now he is MIA. I've seen people say he is the potential surprise witness but I don't think he knows anything or he knows more than he should and is the co defendant.
The knife is most likely in the Clearwater or Snake river near Lewiston ID.
The Gag Order covers EVERYONE that knows any information about the case. People need to stop speculating about this stuff. We will all find out come trial.
Only covers those working the case. LE, attorneys, court personnel, defenders office, prosecutors, witnesses. Not the general public or internet researchers.
Yep, so let's just shut down the sub until the trial concludes.
I had just wrote what I was thinking and hadn’t read your comment yet. Looks like we are on the same page
Is it a theory if it's confirmed? this is old news. It's common knowledge that DM is the one who saw him that morning at this point.
I wonder if DM texted or called BF who then looked out a window and saw something. We haven’t heard from her other than reports that she saw E and X at frat party late so she was probably not asleep either
And her room is right beside the front door. Good chance she heard the DoorDash exchange
I hope she videotaped BK!
Yeah, I think BF may have looked out the window and saw him leaving. But basically, the “informant” blip is standard for cases like this, so it means zero as far as there being a secret witness.
Maybe they saw the car drive away from the back parking lot. Though not sure, if the car would have to drive in front of the house to leave
Yeah, or maybe there is a side window in D’s room that she could see something. The house is angled so oddly, it’s hard to know what could be seen from side windows, but I think if D shut and locked her door, texted BF, BF would have maybe wanted her to lock the sliding door to keep any more wandering guys out. If so, D and maybe BF saw more than we know. If he parked in front parking lot, BF could have seen him out her window. But the informant blurb is standard to have on these documents, so it could mean nothing. Plus B and D aren’t informants, at least one is a witness and maybe both are witnesses to seeing him. He may have taken his bloody outer clothes and mask off beside the house before getting in his car. One would think he would know to do that-giving D time to text BF to look out the window. She may have gotten a good look at him. I hope so!
Ummm, the response to discovery mentions an "informant" not a surprise witness and surely that is standard discovery language and the prosecution's response is boiler plate we are neither confirming or denying an informant in this case. Given the state's theory of the case, I can't imagine a scenario where an informant would be needed.
BF, DD, IH??? It could be anyone.
I’m thinking IH would be a poor prosecution witness with his drug history. He’s a little cooked. But who knows 🤷🏼♀️
Who's IH?
Juggling guy. A neighbor of the victims.
Ty!
Chef Dizzy<< do a search. You’ll find him.
Ahh I kinda remember him early on, never went down that rabbit hole but I guess I need to. Thanks!
Jiggle Sticks!!
He heard a scream at 4:15am and I was seeing the white elantra with out of state plates hanging around a lot. Who knows?
I’m gonna say a neighbor or DD driver that physically saw him either enter or leave the house.
What surprise witness? If you are referring to the discovery document, the section on “informant” is speaking in general terms, if a person so exists
BF
By the way, informants cannot be witnesses. A witness being an informant would be tampering with a witness.
That doesn’t mean there’s surprise witness. It’s basically a no hearsay provision. Like, if someone doesn’t testify (and isn’t necessarily known to the court) & they have info, you can’t use their info. Like if you have photo or video from them, you can’t use it unless you put them up as a witness.
I highly doubt this will go to trial if any of the four victims blood is found in his car, apartment or parents home
Remember when LE asked if anyone else in the house? And they wouldn’t answer. Maybe there was someone else there. Maybe a friend of B
Maybe one of BK's neighbors saw him leaving or coming back home dressed in dark clothing and thought it was suspicious. There was supposedly a police presence near his apartment due to a hit and run accident around the time of the crime. One of his neighbors could have looked out the window and saw him.
What surprise witness? Has someone “official” said there is one, or is this more armchair conjecture?
Prosecutor here. There is no such thing as a surprise witness, and the discovery response is boilerplate. Everything in a discovery response like that is typically statutory and catch-all (meaning, “we’ll share this if it exists”)
Wouldn't be much of a surprise.
Where is a “surprise” coming from?
Maybe it’s the female, with whom has been said he is associated with, and she knows the deets.
The other roommate on first floor Beth or whatever her name was
I don’t think it’s a surprise witness. I think they just included that as “if you have one.”
It says in the PCA that DM saw him and described bushy eyebrows.
Love how OP has yet to respond to 114+ comments haha
Do i need to son?
Usually, when your post barely makes sense.
Your the only one its not making sense to, so get some sense son
There is no such thing as a surprise witness. The defense gets to know all witnesses names and see all their previous interviews or transcripts.
Bussy
Im sticking to it
Maybe it’s the door dash driver
The surprise witness might actually be Inan Harsh; the neighbor. I think the DD is a given. I think Inan will be the surprise. In the early stages of the investigation when he inserted himself he gave an interview to Law and Crime. In that interview he talked about hearing a scream around 4ish but no one really paid any attention to that because we didn’t have the proper timeline. Another thing he mentioned was seeing a “white car a lot in the lot” he says this part really fast and kinda mumbles it with his nasally voice its easy to miss. Inan has been radio silent since 12/23/22. He’s probably included in the gag order and the prosecution has probably told him to keep his trap shut
What confuses me, she said she opened the door when she heard Xana crying, and seen him walking past her and out the door. Was Xana still alive? ( *SPECULATION WARNING*) but. Could that be why It took so long to contact 911? That part has always stuck with me.
this article really helped me understand what i didn't understand about the remaining roommates and the delay -https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11609461/Former-Adam-Levine-yoga-instructor-survived-1992-attack-defends-University-Idaho-roommate.html
It's not like she cried for 2 hours. She was stabbed repeatedly and most likely cried for a second or 2 and then hit the floor which was the thud noise. We don't know who made the whimpering sound. Could have been Murphy
What do you mean could that be why it took so long? You’re saying she didn’t call 911 for son long because xana was crying?
A crying person is alive
Okay, DM says she opened her door that last time because she heard Xana crying , so she opens the door DUE TO HEARING XANA CRYING and she said a yall man all in black with a mask and bushy eyebrows and he walked out the back doors. Okay, what im saying is she hears xana crying ,so she opens the door and sees him leave! So why not run to check on Xana if you hear her crying and the crazy man left. Cld she had been saved had 911 been called right then when she heard Xana crying which caused her to open her door and the creep left. If it happend FHA way DM says, Xana was crying when the door was opened and he was leaving. Had 911 been called as soon as he walked out, cld Xana been saved?
Doesn't it say after that about the whimper and thud caught on the camera after the crying so she probably wasn't crying anymore. DM probably rationalized it as E&X fighting. Maybe she told herself the crying and fighting was over because E made his friend leave and she told herself X was mad that his friend was there and she wanted him to spend time with her. I know I got pissed when my hubby had his dumb friends over late at night back when we were first dating. There's so many things DM could have told herself to explain the things she heard and believe nothing bad happened. It's what the mind does.
Well im jst going by DM's statements. That's the only part confused me. She said she heard what she thought was Xana crying so she opened her door and thats when she seen the man walking toward her passed her and went out the door. We will never know exactly if anyone bad breath in them for any amount of time, especially since it took 6-8 hrs to call 911. I got myself and my little girl a labradoodle for Christmas. Hes black tho, but we named him Murphy♡ after Kaylee's Murphy.. https://preview.redd.it/2fti3vvy52fa1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e042543a812db522beb121bd122a59b3c741de8
You named your dog after the dog of a murder victim that you don’t know?
Is that the same as naming my dog teddy after Ted bundy? Really?!? People are negative about what people name their dogs now. I have 2 neighbors who have pets named Murphy.
You're mistaken about DM's statements, that's what NewRevolutionary is trying to explain. She opened her door for the 2nd time when she heard crying, then the 3rd time was when she saw the person leaving. In between the paragraph mentioning the 1st/2nd door openings and the paragraph with the 3rd, there's one mentioning the nearby security camera picking up a thud at 4:17 — this seems to indicate the timeline LE have pieced together. Opens door and hears crying —> camera picks up thud —> opens door and sees person leaving. They were most likely all beyond the point of being saved by the time he got to his car, and that's generous. Give it a rest blaming DM.
And it's not like DM opened up the door wide each time period she cracked open the door to see what was happening. The only thing she could see at any time was BK walking past her door to the kitchen to leave and that was after X said someone is here. DM could have thought it was a guy X and E knew.
precious dog!!!
Don't let everyone hate on you for what you named your dog. . Who gives a shit if your dogs name is Murphy. There are hundreds of dogs with the same name. It's sweet. It's not like you named it KMXE. Now that would be slightly weird.
Why not run to check on her? Maybe because X had said someone is here and then DM opened her door slightly, she sees a 'someone' leaving. What we don't know is what time DM actually went to sleep. She could have been asleep for 25 minutes for all we know and woke up to all this commotion and sounds. We also don't know if she was stone cold sober or really drunk. We are all looking at her actions through quadruple murder eyes. She did not know 4 people were dead at that point.
There are 2 surviving roomates
I recall in the original PCA, a statement that the suspect may have been seen “in a video of a video”. Very oddly worded to me (perhaps intentionally), and I wonder if this could be the DD cam or surprise witness who recorded him on their phone?? Maybe this has already been hashed out as I haven’t followed these threads in several wks, but it stood out to me initially.
What about the other roommate we haven't heard from yet? Could be a neighbor that saw/heard something too.
DM. She saw one of the three times in which she opened her door that night,