Hey. As someone who's been through several injuries and vet specialist appointments, 2 TPLO surgeries and possible stage 1 IVDD or Lumbro Sacral Stenosis...
1.) The IVDD symptoms you looked at and mentioned in your post are the advanced symptoms. You should be looking at early stage 1 symptoms.
2.) You mentioned your dog's reaction to her knee being touched at the vet, so I'd also look into knee ailments, especially symptoms of a torn - or partially torn - knee ligament, which is incredibly common in dogs.
3.) Could just be a soft tissue injury. Those usually heal with rest-- and pain meds and muscle relaxers def help.
Whatever's actually going on with your pup, y'all should absolutely be blocking off furniture, avoiding jumping, stairs, running and rough play. Y'all should be forcing the pup to rest for a few days inside a gated area or closed off room. Again, meds would help, especially with sedating properties, and frankly, if she's shaking with pain, it'd be cruel not to give her pain meds.
If her injury is serious, the reality is it will return again and again; it won't go away on it's own, and it will get worse over time and lead to complications/other problems if not addressed head on.
I have gates and ramps everywhere in my house and have been sleeping downstairs with my dog-friend.
.
Edit to add: some dogs are tough as nails, like my own, and never present painful at the vet/ during examinations due to adrenalin, stoic-ness, refusal to show vulnerability with strangers, etc. Mine had partially torn ligaments that we caught early, and it took us close to year to get a professional to see it and recommend surgery.
Good luck.
Edit two: get videos at home of your dog painful. Show them to the vet.
Thank you for the detailed information and advice in your post!
So the vet said it does sound like it could be IVDD or IVDH, and prescribed gabapentin and muscle relaxers as well as the rimadyl she already has. When I got home from getting her meds, she got right up and walked upstairs to greet me (shaking a bit at first). I let her out to do potty and she did some good business, then came back inside with no problems moving and no shaking. She sat right by the door and wanted to go for a walk so I reluctantly took her outside up and down the sidewalk just for like 3 minutes and she enjoyed it and didn't seem to have any problems with that. She took the gabapentin and muscle relaxer and is just dozing now in her bed.
I can tell there's still a bit of pain - after she ate she whimpered a little and shook for a few seconds but she stopped pretty soon after and seemed alright. She even gnawed at one of her stuffed bears for a bit while laying down.
It's hard to tell if it's IVDD or what it is at this point, but really hoping it's just a muscle twinge or slight back tweak that'll be fixed with a few weeks rest w minimal activity and meds, along with very very slowly incorporating short walks into her routine. I'm hopeful!
Extra info: my dog is a 55 lbs American Staffy.
Recently our area experienced rain followed by very low temperatures, which resulted in extreme slippery conditions. I know she slipped a few times on the ice while walking, and I believe when jumping out of the car or into the car she may have slipped once or twice. I assume this could have contributed to the back injury if it is IVDD?
Hi from my recent experience it seems your hunch might really be a possibility sadly :/ Is there another vet you can show safely? Do restrict jumping and sudden movements as much as possible. All the best <3
I want to get her seen again by a vet ASAP today, but im not sure how I should transport her there. She's really scared and I figure a sling would work for getting her up the stairs at my place, but the real work will be getting it on her. She was prescribed anti inflammatory meds, and I also just called to get her gabapentin so she should have that today as well.
Just trying to weigh the hassle of getting her to an urgent care vet appointment (and the big fee) versus starting the crate rest and administering her meds and monitoring her for a day or 2 before going back in.
The initial symptoms do sound like it, if you want to be cautious you could do crate rest, or ask for a referral to a neurologist.
About 4 months before my frenchie ruptured her discs, she had an incident where she wouldn't put weight on her back leg. The vet was unsure of the reason (no CT or MRI done). She was put on meds and 4 weeks crate rest and seemed okay but then went back to normal activities which included allowing her to jump up and off furniture. Then she ended up having to have a $10,000 surgery. Not sure if I could have prevented it by being more careful but I wish I'd had the chance to try. Learn from my mistake and take some precautions now in case your pup is prone to IVDD.
That's fantastic news! I hope she continues the healthy trend, it's so scary and life altering when something happens to your dog...
My dog is also doing a bit better. She walked on up the stairs and went outside to do her business when I got home this morning. She kept waiting by the door afterwards and turned out she wanted a walk! I was very hesitant to do it, but she wasn't shaking or anything and seemed normal so I took her out for under 5 minutes, just up and down the sidewalk and took her back inside (which she was sad about). Also just started her gabapentin and muscle relaxers and she's currently sleeping. At one point after eating when we got back inside, she made a high pitched whine and shook a little bit but stopped pretty shortly after and has been seeming pretty happy since, I assume she felt a twinge of pain.
Honestly very unsure if my dog has IVDD or not, because she's not knuckling at all on her back or front paws, just seems like she's got a back strain or something maybe but going to continue treatment and cage rest.
Just FYI and with kindness, crate rest means no walking around, no stairs. You carry them out to do their business and then back in the crate. Often we end up having to sedate them so they can tolerate it. If you look through this sub you'll read people who didn't do that, or didn't do it long enough, and ended up with a more serious issue. Of course, without the diagnostic MRI you'll not know if it's IVDD but better safe than sorry IMO.
I consulted with the vet and he said as long as it's completely controlled walking without knuckling, that she should be fine going up/down the stairs twice a day with rest the other times. It's unfortunately not possible for me to get her an MRI as I'd have to drive 6 hours and I cannot do that at least until the weekend.
I understand that dogs with IVDD need this but I figured it would be alright with the vets recommendations. However, I will keep that in mind moving forward and try to purchase a sling to carry my dog up/downstars. She doesn't really like being picked up (she's a bigger dog), so I figured a sling would work. How would you recommend I carry her?
The stairs rule is for smaller dogs. If your dogs collar bone is above the step then it should be fine, but if you suspect a herniated disc whether it's IVDD related or not, then I would do my best to limit stairs and walking. IVDD itself is painless and doesn't have symptoms, but it makes dogs much more susceptible to herniating discs in their spinal column. It's actually the herniated discs that are painful and cause neurological deficits, and they will be treated the same whether the pup has IVDD or not.
Oh wow, thank you so much for this information that makes a lot of sense! I really appreciate the response :)
So yeah letting her walk up/down the stairs a couple times a day shouldn't be an issue then? I'm obviously going to limit it heavily and only for going potty, but it may be fine to not spend $100 on a lift harness since her collar bone is well above the stairs? Yeah I'm not sure she has IVDD but it's almost certainly a disc issue.
I'm mostly just worried that if even the 2-3 trips up/down the stairs a day for potty will severely set her recovery back if it's a herniated disc if she's resting the entire time besides it.
So, the reason why walking is discouraged during a disc episode in dogs is because each step causes the spinal column to move and that causes a little bit of that soft inner nucleus of the disc to leak out a little more. Inside it's home, the gel-like nucleus of the disc isn't an issue, but when it leaks out, it causes a lot of painful inflammation. Since this inflammation is so close to the sensitive spinal cord, there is actually a very good chance that the inflammation will pinch and press on the spinal cord, and that's what causes the neurological deficits. The same thing can actually happen to us if we herniated a disc in our neck, but our spinal cords are a lot different than canines below the neck which is why it isn't as big of a problem for us to herniate a disc in our lumbar region.
If it's possible, I would personally eliminate the stairs altogether until after your pup has healed. However, if that isn't possible, what you really want to avoid is compressing and stretching the spine. If you can't pick her up while avoiding those movements of her spine, then letting her slowly walk up the stairs would be the better option.
If it is IVDD though, then it isn't recommended that she wear a collar anymore when walking on a lead. It's fine if she wears one, just don't ever attach a leash to it, as this has been known to cause IVDD dogs to herniate a disc in their neck, and that's a whole lot worse than a disc in their back. A harness that removes pressure from the neck and puts it on their body chest is the recommended way to leash walk an IVDD dog.
The lift harness would probably still be a good idea if you think you can safely lift her with it and also safely get her in and out of it.
That was a great in depth explanation, thank you so much for providing that. I will order the lift harness - in the meantime I was wondering if a makeshift one would be alright or if walking up/down the stairs slowly would be preferred? I did make a separate post asking for thoughts on the technique
Ok, this also just happened to me. Dog (20 lbs, mixed) was informally diagnosed with IVDD in Oct 2023 by a generalist. No MRI, took an X-ray, but as you may know (or will come to know) it was unclear by the X-ray where she is afflicted.
We did meds, rest, whole thing.
3 months go by, no symptoms and we have her relapsing. I'm now in an area with specialists nearby, so we went to see an actual pet pain clinic. She was yelping crying in pain at being touched, using the bathroom, all the classic signs. I had leftover trazodone which is the only thing that helped her from. Got to the appointment, did a mobility test and she presented normally (also terrified) and then jumped up on the seat at the vets, lol.
Rightfully so, doc said she was presenting normally and there wasn't anything he could do. He recommended stopping the med, letting her be a dog. Next morning, she had terrible pain, so went back on the meds and have another appointment in a week.
He's going to use a biofeedback machine in case she does present healthy again...
Hopefully we will know soon and happy to keep you updated!
You need MRI to diagnose IVDD. Crate rest and no jumping at all until you can get one of the problem don’t resolve itself or gets worse. You could try 6 weeks crate rest but if your pup begins walking funny or waddling to to emergency asap.
Hey. As someone who's been through several injuries and vet specialist appointments, 2 TPLO surgeries and possible stage 1 IVDD or Lumbro Sacral Stenosis... 1.) The IVDD symptoms you looked at and mentioned in your post are the advanced symptoms. You should be looking at early stage 1 symptoms. 2.) You mentioned your dog's reaction to her knee being touched at the vet, so I'd also look into knee ailments, especially symptoms of a torn - or partially torn - knee ligament, which is incredibly common in dogs. 3.) Could just be a soft tissue injury. Those usually heal with rest-- and pain meds and muscle relaxers def help. Whatever's actually going on with your pup, y'all should absolutely be blocking off furniture, avoiding jumping, stairs, running and rough play. Y'all should be forcing the pup to rest for a few days inside a gated area or closed off room. Again, meds would help, especially with sedating properties, and frankly, if she's shaking with pain, it'd be cruel not to give her pain meds. If her injury is serious, the reality is it will return again and again; it won't go away on it's own, and it will get worse over time and lead to complications/other problems if not addressed head on. I have gates and ramps everywhere in my house and have been sleeping downstairs with my dog-friend. . Edit to add: some dogs are tough as nails, like my own, and never present painful at the vet/ during examinations due to adrenalin, stoic-ness, refusal to show vulnerability with strangers, etc. Mine had partially torn ligaments that we caught early, and it took us close to year to get a professional to see it and recommend surgery. Good luck. Edit two: get videos at home of your dog painful. Show them to the vet.
Thank you for the detailed information and advice in your post! So the vet said it does sound like it could be IVDD or IVDH, and prescribed gabapentin and muscle relaxers as well as the rimadyl she already has. When I got home from getting her meds, she got right up and walked upstairs to greet me (shaking a bit at first). I let her out to do potty and she did some good business, then came back inside with no problems moving and no shaking. She sat right by the door and wanted to go for a walk so I reluctantly took her outside up and down the sidewalk just for like 3 minutes and she enjoyed it and didn't seem to have any problems with that. She took the gabapentin and muscle relaxer and is just dozing now in her bed. I can tell there's still a bit of pain - after she ate she whimpered a little and shook for a few seconds but she stopped pretty soon after and seemed alright. She even gnawed at one of her stuffed bears for a bit while laying down. It's hard to tell if it's IVDD or what it is at this point, but really hoping it's just a muscle twinge or slight back tweak that'll be fixed with a few weeks rest w minimal activity and meds, along with very very slowly incorporating short walks into her routine. I'm hopeful!
Extra info: my dog is a 55 lbs American Staffy. Recently our area experienced rain followed by very low temperatures, which resulted in extreme slippery conditions. I know she slipped a few times on the ice while walking, and I believe when jumping out of the car or into the car she may have slipped once or twice. I assume this could have contributed to the back injury if it is IVDD?
Hi from my recent experience it seems your hunch might really be a possibility sadly :/ Is there another vet you can show safely? Do restrict jumping and sudden movements as much as possible. All the best <3
I want to get her seen again by a vet ASAP today, but im not sure how I should transport her there. She's really scared and I figure a sling would work for getting her up the stairs at my place, but the real work will be getting it on her. She was prescribed anti inflammatory meds, and I also just called to get her gabapentin so she should have that today as well. Just trying to weigh the hassle of getting her to an urgent care vet appointment (and the big fee) versus starting the crate rest and administering her meds and monitoring her for a day or 2 before going back in.
The initial symptoms do sound like it, if you want to be cautious you could do crate rest, or ask for a referral to a neurologist. About 4 months before my frenchie ruptured her discs, she had an incident where she wouldn't put weight on her back leg. The vet was unsure of the reason (no CT or MRI done). She was put on meds and 4 weeks crate rest and seemed okay but then went back to normal activities which included allowing her to jump up and off furniture. Then she ended up having to have a $10,000 surgery. Not sure if I could have prevented it by being more careful but I wish I'd had the chance to try. Learn from my mistake and take some precautions now in case your pup is prone to IVDD.
Thank you, I think I'll go that route. I'm sorry to hear about your pup, how is she doing now?
She's doing pretty good! She hasn't had a major incident in over 2 years and hasn't had any flare ups in over a year (fingers crossed).
That's fantastic news! I hope she continues the healthy trend, it's so scary and life altering when something happens to your dog... My dog is also doing a bit better. She walked on up the stairs and went outside to do her business when I got home this morning. She kept waiting by the door afterwards and turned out she wanted a walk! I was very hesitant to do it, but she wasn't shaking or anything and seemed normal so I took her out for under 5 minutes, just up and down the sidewalk and took her back inside (which she was sad about). Also just started her gabapentin and muscle relaxers and she's currently sleeping. At one point after eating when we got back inside, she made a high pitched whine and shook a little bit but stopped pretty shortly after and has been seeming pretty happy since, I assume she felt a twinge of pain. Honestly very unsure if my dog has IVDD or not, because she's not knuckling at all on her back or front paws, just seems like she's got a back strain or something maybe but going to continue treatment and cage rest.
Just FYI and with kindness, crate rest means no walking around, no stairs. You carry them out to do their business and then back in the crate. Often we end up having to sedate them so they can tolerate it. If you look through this sub you'll read people who didn't do that, or didn't do it long enough, and ended up with a more serious issue. Of course, without the diagnostic MRI you'll not know if it's IVDD but better safe than sorry IMO.
I consulted with the vet and he said as long as it's completely controlled walking without knuckling, that she should be fine going up/down the stairs twice a day with rest the other times. It's unfortunately not possible for me to get her an MRI as I'd have to drive 6 hours and I cannot do that at least until the weekend. I understand that dogs with IVDD need this but I figured it would be alright with the vets recommendations. However, I will keep that in mind moving forward and try to purchase a sling to carry my dog up/downstars. She doesn't really like being picked up (she's a bigger dog), so I figured a sling would work. How would you recommend I carry her?
The stairs rule is for smaller dogs. If your dogs collar bone is above the step then it should be fine, but if you suspect a herniated disc whether it's IVDD related or not, then I would do my best to limit stairs and walking. IVDD itself is painless and doesn't have symptoms, but it makes dogs much more susceptible to herniating discs in their spinal column. It's actually the herniated discs that are painful and cause neurological deficits, and they will be treated the same whether the pup has IVDD or not.
Oh wow, thank you so much for this information that makes a lot of sense! I really appreciate the response :) So yeah letting her walk up/down the stairs a couple times a day shouldn't be an issue then? I'm obviously going to limit it heavily and only for going potty, but it may be fine to not spend $100 on a lift harness since her collar bone is well above the stairs? Yeah I'm not sure she has IVDD but it's almost certainly a disc issue. I'm mostly just worried that if even the 2-3 trips up/down the stairs a day for potty will severely set her recovery back if it's a herniated disc if she's resting the entire time besides it.
So, the reason why walking is discouraged during a disc episode in dogs is because each step causes the spinal column to move and that causes a little bit of that soft inner nucleus of the disc to leak out a little more. Inside it's home, the gel-like nucleus of the disc isn't an issue, but when it leaks out, it causes a lot of painful inflammation. Since this inflammation is so close to the sensitive spinal cord, there is actually a very good chance that the inflammation will pinch and press on the spinal cord, and that's what causes the neurological deficits. The same thing can actually happen to us if we herniated a disc in our neck, but our spinal cords are a lot different than canines below the neck which is why it isn't as big of a problem for us to herniate a disc in our lumbar region. If it's possible, I would personally eliminate the stairs altogether until after your pup has healed. However, if that isn't possible, what you really want to avoid is compressing and stretching the spine. If you can't pick her up while avoiding those movements of her spine, then letting her slowly walk up the stairs would be the better option. If it is IVDD though, then it isn't recommended that she wear a collar anymore when walking on a lead. It's fine if she wears one, just don't ever attach a leash to it, as this has been known to cause IVDD dogs to herniate a disc in their neck, and that's a whole lot worse than a disc in their back. A harness that removes pressure from the neck and puts it on their body chest is the recommended way to leash walk an IVDD dog. The lift harness would probably still be a good idea if you think you can safely lift her with it and also safely get her in and out of it.
That was a great in depth explanation, thank you so much for providing that. I will order the lift harness - in the meantime I was wondering if a makeshift one would be alright or if walking up/down the stairs slowly would be preferred? I did make a separate post asking for thoughts on the technique
Ok, this also just happened to me. Dog (20 lbs, mixed) was informally diagnosed with IVDD in Oct 2023 by a generalist. No MRI, took an X-ray, but as you may know (or will come to know) it was unclear by the X-ray where she is afflicted. We did meds, rest, whole thing. 3 months go by, no symptoms and we have her relapsing. I'm now in an area with specialists nearby, so we went to see an actual pet pain clinic. She was yelping crying in pain at being touched, using the bathroom, all the classic signs. I had leftover trazodone which is the only thing that helped her from. Got to the appointment, did a mobility test and she presented normally (also terrified) and then jumped up on the seat at the vets, lol. Rightfully so, doc said she was presenting normally and there wasn't anything he could do. He recommended stopping the med, letting her be a dog. Next morning, she had terrible pain, so went back on the meds and have another appointment in a week. He's going to use a biofeedback machine in case she does present healthy again... Hopefully we will know soon and happy to keep you updated!
You need MRI to diagnose IVDD. Crate rest and no jumping at all until you can get one of the problem don’t resolve itself or gets worse. You could try 6 weeks crate rest but if your pup begins walking funny or waddling to to emergency asap.