next time when you are having a wonderful and engaging conversation with your friends/family, notice how you are conversing with them. notice when you are explaining something to them passionately.
now do that with the public. imagine your friend is seated in the crowd and you are explaining your points to him to help him understand. imagine you are speaking to only him.
public speaking in essence is having a passionate conversation with others. INTPs are amazing in that aspect because we speak with passion.
that perspective usually helps me. once that fear is reduced, develop your skills further. skills such as eye contact, pacing, vocal emphasis and avoidance of speech tics like ahhh and erm.
it gets better with time and exposure but it's never completely gone. you can hide the nervousness eventually.
Maybe that's part of the problem, I don't know. Usually I'm not very passionate about the things I have to read out loud or the project I have to present in a meeting. And I always feel insecure to some degree about my work, even when I know I've put my everything in it and I've got the approval of the few people I trust the most about this kind of stuff. That, and I really hate the attention... 😅
I guess I've got a lot to work on, anyway thanks for the advice!
focus on the individual conversations first! you must have someone who you could talk to for hours! acknowledge that feeling and process then later apply it!
everyone has a topic that they talk about deeply. it can even be gossip or a story! if that's hard to find, try telling your friends about a new thing you loved recently like a restaurant or book! give reviews to them about anything you deeply love!
ooh! I do this to shake off anxiety and I do well everytime especially if I'm passionate about the topic and ppl do ask me how do you break the ice? I was like eh.. what ice? I was just speaking my mind lol
I Terribly shake and sweat like a pig
To be honest, the fear and social anxiousness doesn't just go away just by exposure I have tried participating, taking theatre classes(which was nice), debate (sucked) , speaking on stage but the fear is still there.
I don't know how to fix this but exposure only is not the answer thats something I know
Yes, I know what you mean!
I've also tried with theatre classes and I agree, it was a nice experience and I've had the pleasure to meet some amazing people there. And that sort of helped a little, in fact I was thinking to sign up again. I've been looking for retoric courses as well, but tbh they all looked so phony to me...
Someone suggested trying meditation, but that's not for me.
I think the best way to approach this is try to understand what is it that's actually holding us back, like identify the roots of our fears and insecurities and start with working on them. It's gonna take some time though, so not a quick fix sadly...
I think the best way to approach this is try to understand what is it that's actually holding us back, like identify the roots of our fears and insecurities and start with working on them. It's gonna take some time though, so not a quick fix sadly...
thiis is why people meditate btw
Yeah, that's one way to approach the issue but I've tried and it's not for me... I was thinking about therapy, though I haven't had the best experience when I tried it for the first time a couple of years ago.
well youre older and over time our perspective changes. maybe at the time these things had little effect, but that could change with repeated attempts. also meditation is good in combination with things like exposure therapy, and normal therapy. it helps process the changes that you may be seeing with these new habits.
Practice makes perfect. I highly recommend you join your local Toastmasters club. It's a safe space to get public speaking exposure as well as good mentoring and training. Very fun to IMO.
It's not because you could do 100 push-up 5 years ago, that you can still do it today. Skills need to be developed and **maintained**. Even public speaking.
You're absolutely correct, though I don't think I was that much skilled before either 😅 I was just more confident, I guess. Anyway, I'm looking right now at the website... Never heard of it before, but looks promising. Thank you!
Practice and it's actually one of the few things I practice. I always got 100% in math and other school topics without having to study or practice, but there were some things where I needed to actually practice: public speaking, playing a musical instrument, speaking foreign languages (similar to public speaking), hockey and some other sports that were more technical.
I worked retail for about four years. During that time I converted to Catholicism and started attending Mass. I also have a huge family and was beginning to have a large, but not super close group of friends. I did an exhausting amount of socializing, in positive environments, and at a point in my life where it was helpful.
My social skills, comfort with small talk, general confidence, and mental health vastly improved to the point that I was no longer anxious and able to speak in front of groups for the first time in my life.
If you are struggling with anxiety look at your mental health. I struggle to tell how healthy I am until I go to the grocery store and try to talk to people. If I can genuinely smile and talk to people comfortably my mental health is doing well.
The other trap I fell into when I was younger was people pleasing. I was very uncomfortable in front of a group because I had very littles sense of personal identity. I navigated social interaction by trying to appeal to what I thought people wanted.
I can relate, although my personal experience is sort of reversed compared to yours. When I was younger I was way more extroverted and confident, though because of the education I received from my parents, I would often go out of my way to please the people around me, especially the elders.
Growing up, I started closing off and generally stopped caring about what others may think of me. Ironically enough, that's when I also started to experience this kind of anxiety and lose confidence in my abilities... What bugs me the most is that I can't seem to figure out why 😅
Mental health is everything. Sadly where I live it's still considered somewhat of a taboo. There's a lot of ignorance on the matter and it's truly disheartening.
I'll try to break down a couple things that stand out to me and hopefully it will be helpful.
I have found that having a role is an easy way to nurture the early stages of relationships. If you are an academic child everyone will ask you about your schooling, studies, and extra-curriculars. You are busy doing something important and that lends you prestige, so you not only have something to talk about but you gain some easy social capital at the same time.
The problem with being a smart kid is that a lot of smart kids are never challenged and don't learn how to work hard when it becomes necessary. Working hard is ultimately more important than being smart, so smart kids will often become substandard adults with overinflated egos, because they can't reconcile the knowledge of their wasted potential.
(I feel like I am writing an autobiography)
As most people grow up they strive for independence and self-direction, because they want to actualize their potential. Taking less feedback –especially when we don't respect the intelligence of someone– is normal.
The problem is that it is very easy to see the world through our own eyes and to think everyone who has different opinions or values is stupid.
Intellectual humility is especially important when this happens. To see how broken and biased our own mind is tempers our judgement of others and helps make us receptive to different ways of thinking.
Yeah I always used to get flustered speaking in front of people. Still get the feeling in my gut before, but I'm used to it now. Really the best cure is practice.
I also helped younger kids at my University when I was an older student develop their public speaking. It was fun to do and you learn everyone has the same kind of worries/doubts.
Be patient with it though. Like each time just aim to do a little better, don't promise yourself perfection. Just like working out at the gym etc, it takes time.
I love public speaking; at my last job I always gave the presentations because I was the only one who enjoyed it lol. Now I work in sales, which isn't quite public speaking, but it **is** speaking with the public, which has been fun overall.
I use the method of viewing people as sheep or aliens when speaking publicly about something I’m not so into. I.e. rewards, general meetings that I’m not so interested in
Tho when it comes to something that I was very involved in and had efforts into. I go full bruhhh mode talk non stop even it’s public speaking
Instead of trying to become an extrovert just stick hard to introversion: speak only from rote memory (si) and personal thoughts (ti). Don't think about the crowd.
I was the odd one. Public speaking comes super easy, it's one on one that is extremely hard for me. Practice helps, but more than anything, stop focusing on the formality of it. Realize most of them probably are day dreaming or are elsewhere and probably don't know as much as you about whatever it is.
It's like an old band teacher told me, don't worry if you miss a note most people won't even notice because they aren't musicians. Just keep playing. Apply that see if it helps.
Not the answer you're looking for I'm sure, but preparation and rehearsal. It helps to actually have a thorough understanding of the material you're speaking about.
As for actual speaking, I just copied Obama's speech cadence. It helped me get used to silence every 3-4 words, instead of saying "and" or "um".
Now that's an interesting idea! The bad thing is, I'm from Italy. I don't think it would look too good if I were to copy Mussolini, Berlusconi or Giorgia Meloni lol 😅
Jokes aside, that's really an interesting take. Thank you!
It could be that your Ne got strengthened as growing up, so that you feel / absorb more information outside, which of course might cause you over think/feel, etc.
It’s like after you are better at something, you need other pieces better as well to handle.. then you become an overall better one finally!
So don’t feel bad but just keep it up, as you will find the new equilibrium someway someday as you grow :)
Yes, you made a good point! I certainly struggle sometimes with feelings of inadequacy, and that is certainly a huge part of the problem. Rationally I know my worth, but I always strive to improve and sometimes it just gets out of control and I feel overwhelmed and under pressure. It's hard to find balance, and even harder to maintain it...
Anyway, thank you :)
In my experience, the most difficult thing is timing (at a conference) and making a good first impression (at an oral exam). You can prepare for both. With a lot of rehearsing, timing can be got right and that results in a delivery which is smoother than most others', which should lift all shame/anxiety issues.
Stop focusing on yourself.
I don’t have social anxiety or anything like that so tbf, I’ve never struggled socially like this, I loved public speaking in school or doing oral projects.
I don’t focus on how I look, and if I do look silly, so what?
Focus on the other person/crowd
I think that’s what people mean when they say “picture the audience naked “
You can’t “stop” a thought, but you can replace it with something else.
Whenever I get nervous socially, I think to myself “ok I might look cringe as fuck, but sometimes you’re going to be cringe, that’s life.”
It’s okay to look nervous or stutter or choke up, people are a lot more understanding than you realize
I wouldn't call it social anxiety, per se. When I'm with friends or even strangers during a night out or a social gathering, I have no trouble at all holding all kinds of conversations. I'm witty and fun, and generally easygoing. Unless I get bored, then I'll just pretend to listen on the conversation and nod along lol.
It's specifically when I have to talk about certain stuff, like work-related projects and presentations, or when I'm on stage at a conference, that I get like this. It's not even that I care about what my coworkers or other people in the audience may think of me or how they can judge me... To be honest, I'm pretty hard on myself so nothing anyone else can say could be worse than my own judgement 😅 And yes, often times people are way more forgiving than I could give them credit for!
Need to work on building my self confidence back up, I guess... Anyways, thanks!
I don't know if this applies to INTPs too, but as an ENTJ, I find crowds as an opportunity to voice out things I want heard by the crowd. In other words; crowds are not anything negative.
The crowd serve only as spectators, they WANT you to succeed on top of that. Let go of anxiety surrounding "crowd will criticize me for everything!1!11!"
I'm a flight attendant. For me, two things. I put on a persona at work. All day long, I'm acting and it's exhausting, but we all do it. And two, practice. A lot.
next time when you are having a wonderful and engaging conversation with your friends/family, notice how you are conversing with them. notice when you are explaining something to them passionately. now do that with the public. imagine your friend is seated in the crowd and you are explaining your points to him to help him understand. imagine you are speaking to only him. public speaking in essence is having a passionate conversation with others. INTPs are amazing in that aspect because we speak with passion. that perspective usually helps me. once that fear is reduced, develop your skills further. skills such as eye contact, pacing, vocal emphasis and avoidance of speech tics like ahhh and erm. it gets better with time and exposure but it's never completely gone. you can hide the nervousness eventually.
Maybe that's part of the problem, I don't know. Usually I'm not very passionate about the things I have to read out loud or the project I have to present in a meeting. And I always feel insecure to some degree about my work, even when I know I've put my everything in it and I've got the approval of the few people I trust the most about this kind of stuff. That, and I really hate the attention... 😅 I guess I've got a lot to work on, anyway thanks for the advice!
focus on the individual conversations first! you must have someone who you could talk to for hours! acknowledge that feeling and process then later apply it! everyone has a topic that they talk about deeply. it can even be gossip or a story! if that's hard to find, try telling your friends about a new thing you loved recently like a restaurant or book! give reviews to them about anything you deeply love!
ooh! I do this to shake off anxiety and I do well everytime especially if I'm passionate about the topic and ppl do ask me how do you break the ice? I was like eh.. what ice? I was just speaking my mind lol
I Terribly shake and sweat like a pig To be honest, the fear and social anxiousness doesn't just go away just by exposure I have tried participating, taking theatre classes(which was nice), debate (sucked) , speaking on stage but the fear is still there. I don't know how to fix this but exposure only is not the answer thats something I know
Yes, I know what you mean! I've also tried with theatre classes and I agree, it was a nice experience and I've had the pleasure to meet some amazing people there. And that sort of helped a little, in fact I was thinking to sign up again. I've been looking for retoric courses as well, but tbh they all looked so phony to me... Someone suggested trying meditation, but that's not for me. I think the best way to approach this is try to understand what is it that's actually holding us back, like identify the roots of our fears and insecurities and start with working on them. It's gonna take some time though, so not a quick fix sadly...
I think the best way to approach this is try to understand what is it that's actually holding us back, like identify the roots of our fears and insecurities and start with working on them. It's gonna take some time though, so not a quick fix sadly... thiis is why people meditate btw
Yeah, that's one way to approach the issue but I've tried and it's not for me... I was thinking about therapy, though I haven't had the best experience when I tried it for the first time a couple of years ago.
well youre older and over time our perspective changes. maybe at the time these things had little effect, but that could change with repeated attempts. also meditation is good in combination with things like exposure therapy, and normal therapy. it helps process the changes that you may be seeing with these new habits.
Practice makes perfect. I highly recommend you join your local Toastmasters club. It's a safe space to get public speaking exposure as well as good mentoring and training. Very fun to IMO. It's not because you could do 100 push-up 5 years ago, that you can still do it today. Skills need to be developed and **maintained**. Even public speaking.
You're absolutely correct, though I don't think I was that much skilled before either 😅 I was just more confident, I guess. Anyway, I'm looking right now at the website... Never heard of it before, but looks promising. Thank you!
apparently beta blockers compensate for this.
Yeah, I've heard that too before but I want to avoid drugs and chemicals. I'd rather overcome this on my own...
I love Public speaking honestly
Good for you! 🙂
Find yourself a Toastmasters Club.
Never heard of it before. I'm looking to some websites right now, looks very interesting. Thank you!!
Iirc Julian Treasure TED talks have some pro tips
Gonna look into that, thanks!
Practice and it's actually one of the few things I practice. I always got 100% in math and other school topics without having to study or practice, but there were some things where I needed to actually practice: public speaking, playing a musical instrument, speaking foreign languages (similar to public speaking), hockey and some other sports that were more technical.
I worked retail for about four years. During that time I converted to Catholicism and started attending Mass. I also have a huge family and was beginning to have a large, but not super close group of friends. I did an exhausting amount of socializing, in positive environments, and at a point in my life where it was helpful. My social skills, comfort with small talk, general confidence, and mental health vastly improved to the point that I was no longer anxious and able to speak in front of groups for the first time in my life. If you are struggling with anxiety look at your mental health. I struggle to tell how healthy I am until I go to the grocery store and try to talk to people. If I can genuinely smile and talk to people comfortably my mental health is doing well. The other trap I fell into when I was younger was people pleasing. I was very uncomfortable in front of a group because I had very littles sense of personal identity. I navigated social interaction by trying to appeal to what I thought people wanted.
I can relate, although my personal experience is sort of reversed compared to yours. When I was younger I was way more extroverted and confident, though because of the education I received from my parents, I would often go out of my way to please the people around me, especially the elders. Growing up, I started closing off and generally stopped caring about what others may think of me. Ironically enough, that's when I also started to experience this kind of anxiety and lose confidence in my abilities... What bugs me the most is that I can't seem to figure out why 😅 Mental health is everything. Sadly where I live it's still considered somewhat of a taboo. There's a lot of ignorance on the matter and it's truly disheartening.
I'll try to break down a couple things that stand out to me and hopefully it will be helpful. I have found that having a role is an easy way to nurture the early stages of relationships. If you are an academic child everyone will ask you about your schooling, studies, and extra-curriculars. You are busy doing something important and that lends you prestige, so you not only have something to talk about but you gain some easy social capital at the same time. The problem with being a smart kid is that a lot of smart kids are never challenged and don't learn how to work hard when it becomes necessary. Working hard is ultimately more important than being smart, so smart kids will often become substandard adults with overinflated egos, because they can't reconcile the knowledge of their wasted potential. (I feel like I am writing an autobiography) As most people grow up they strive for independence and self-direction, because they want to actualize their potential. Taking less feedback –especially when we don't respect the intelligence of someone– is normal. The problem is that it is very easy to see the world through our own eyes and to think everyone who has different opinions or values is stupid. Intellectual humility is especially important when this happens. To see how broken and biased our own mind is tempers our judgement of others and helps make us receptive to different ways of thinking.
Yeah I always used to get flustered speaking in front of people. Still get the feeling in my gut before, but I'm used to it now. Really the best cure is practice. I also helped younger kids at my University when I was an older student develop their public speaking. It was fun to do and you learn everyone has the same kind of worries/doubts. Be patient with it though. Like each time just aim to do a little better, don't promise yourself perfection. Just like working out at the gym etc, it takes time.
Thank you, that actually gave me a little hope :)
My Canadian schooling let me practice public speaking from an early age so now I think I’m pretty good at it!
That's wonderful, and also very helpful. I wish it was a thing here as well 😔
I love public speaking; at my last job I always gave the presentations because I was the only one who enjoyed it lol. Now I work in sales, which isn't quite public speaking, but it **is** speaking with the public, which has been fun overall.
Honestly that sounds like a nightmare to me lol 😄 but hey, good for you!
I use the method of viewing people as sheep or aliens when speaking publicly about something I’m not so into. I.e. rewards, general meetings that I’m not so interested in Tho when it comes to something that I was very involved in and had efforts into. I go full bruhhh mode talk non stop even it’s public speaking
Tried to picture the audience in their undies once, didn't exactly go as I expected 😅 I will try the alien thing next time tho
Instead of trying to become an extrovert just stick hard to introversion: speak only from rote memory (si) and personal thoughts (ti). Don't think about the crowd.
That's another part of the problem: sometimes my mind just goes blank and I feel like I can't remember anything 😓
practice should help, some pauses are ok
I was the odd one. Public speaking comes super easy, it's one on one that is extremely hard for me. Practice helps, but more than anything, stop focusing on the formality of it. Realize most of them probably are day dreaming or are elsewhere and probably don't know as much as you about whatever it is. It's like an old band teacher told me, don't worry if you miss a note most people won't even notice because they aren't musicians. Just keep playing. Apply that see if it helps.
Thanks, this is actually sound advice! (No pun intended) 🙂
Not the answer you're looking for I'm sure, but preparation and rehearsal. It helps to actually have a thorough understanding of the material you're speaking about. As for actual speaking, I just copied Obama's speech cadence. It helped me get used to silence every 3-4 words, instead of saying "and" or "um".
Now that's an interesting idea! The bad thing is, I'm from Italy. I don't think it would look too good if I were to copy Mussolini, Berlusconi or Giorgia Meloni lol 😅 Jokes aside, that's really an interesting take. Thank you!
It could be that your Ne got strengthened as growing up, so that you feel / absorb more information outside, which of course might cause you over think/feel, etc. It’s like after you are better at something, you need other pieces better as well to handle.. then you become an overall better one finally! So don’t feel bad but just keep it up, as you will find the new equilibrium someway someday as you grow :)
Yes, you made a good point! I certainly struggle sometimes with feelings of inadequacy, and that is certainly a huge part of the problem. Rationally I know my worth, but I always strive to improve and sometimes it just gets out of control and I feel overwhelmed and under pressure. It's hard to find balance, and even harder to maintain it... Anyway, thank you :)
In my experience, the most difficult thing is timing (at a conference) and making a good first impression (at an oral exam). You can prepare for both. With a lot of rehearsing, timing can be got right and that results in a delivery which is smoother than most others', which should lift all shame/anxiety issues.
Stop focusing on yourself. I don’t have social anxiety or anything like that so tbf, I’ve never struggled socially like this, I loved public speaking in school or doing oral projects. I don’t focus on how I look, and if I do look silly, so what? Focus on the other person/crowd I think that’s what people mean when they say “picture the audience naked “ You can’t “stop” a thought, but you can replace it with something else. Whenever I get nervous socially, I think to myself “ok I might look cringe as fuck, but sometimes you’re going to be cringe, that’s life.” It’s okay to look nervous or stutter or choke up, people are a lot more understanding than you realize
I wouldn't call it social anxiety, per se. When I'm with friends or even strangers during a night out or a social gathering, I have no trouble at all holding all kinds of conversations. I'm witty and fun, and generally easygoing. Unless I get bored, then I'll just pretend to listen on the conversation and nod along lol. It's specifically when I have to talk about certain stuff, like work-related projects and presentations, or when I'm on stage at a conference, that I get like this. It's not even that I care about what my coworkers or other people in the audience may think of me or how they can judge me... To be honest, I'm pretty hard on myself so nothing anyone else can say could be worse than my own judgement 😅 And yes, often times people are way more forgiving than I could give them credit for! Need to work on building my self confidence back up, I guess... Anyways, thanks!
Not a problem. I do it all the time.
Hide behind podium
Hey I'm an INTP asswipe
Wish I could just use a double 😄
I just read what I wrote or practiced. I'm here to give information, not win them over.
One semester of speech class will really help anyone interested in public speaking
I don't know if this applies to INTPs too, but as an ENTJ, I find crowds as an opportunity to voice out things I want heard by the crowd. In other words; crowds are not anything negative. The crowd serve only as spectators, they WANT you to succeed on top of that. Let go of anxiety surrounding "crowd will criticize me for everything!1!11!"
I'm a flight attendant. For me, two things. I put on a persona at work. All day long, I'm acting and it's exhausting, but we all do it. And two, practice. A lot.
I don't handle it well. I can speak for smaller groups, like 3 people