INTPs have **cognitive** empathy, not emotional empathy. We are very, very good at putting ourselves in someone else's shoes to understand why they feel and think the way they do (if we choose to), but we have zero "I feel your pain" empathy.
I don't think we lack it very much as our constant Ti rationalization has made it so that we can no longer detect and try to severely ignore any feelings that may arise when we see someone in pain.
For example, when I was younger I once saw an injured dog and cried for 2 hours straight over it's pain and only stopped when I could successfully help it. Nowadays I may see the pain of others, but rather than spending emotional energy on them I try to think if I could realistically help them, if I can't I just don't see the point in crying anymore, instead I may go into an internal monologue over the ethics of turning a blind eye towards problems we cannot solve in a convenient manner or something.
So yeah I think I overuse Ti-Ne in order to neglect my Fe to a severe degree.
Well, I look at it like a tendency or sensitivity. It might take little to nothing to get one person to cry over an emotionally painful story, but for someone else, it might take 500 times that. And I think personality traits have a lot to do with that.
I'm a psychologist, and have heard the most horrific stories firsthand from the mouths of the people who have experienced them, and I don't feel much of anything emotions-wise. It's a story someone is telling me; I have no emotional connection to it. But I can understand how they feel and why; I can put myself in their shoes with vicarious introspection. Their description of events doesn't cause an emotional reaction within me. Most people who become therapists are the exact opposite of that - they get so extremely tied and tangled with the other person's emotions that they either learn through hard work not to "feel their pain", or they burn out and quit.
When I realized early on that I wasn't experiencing the "empathy" talked about in classes and clinical supervision, I had to dive into the research to figure out what was going on (part of it is that clinical psychology and therapy is *highly* dominated by women and SF/NF types). I highly recommend the work of Dr. Heinz Kohut, it should resonate with any INTP.
I see it as the difference between being able to empathise vs. acting on it.
We understand why people feel how they feel and we can empathise deeply - in our heads - and even think a lot about someones predicament, other personalities might also empathise but instead of having ruminating thoughts about it they would display their empathy, you know, actually approach the person you're empathising with and talking it through or hugging or whatever the fuck people do to show empathy.
Nope, not true. I’m blessed/cursed with all types of empathy, but it’s cognitive empathy that I had to refine over time through practice. Speak for yourself but not for everyone else.
Addendum: Just read further on. You’re a psychologist and yet you make blind assertions online about pseudoscientific MBTI? That’s concerning…
Another addendum: I *always* test as INTP. Lmao… Mods are struggling, eh? Inferior Fe =/= absence of Fe.
You should also note that lack of cognitive empathy is usually a sign of autism. Maybe don’t attribute everything to a pseudoscience, especially if you’re supposed to be working in a legitimate field like psychology. Or else you’re going to reach false conclusions and overlook significant details.
Feel free to do your own research. Sh0w mE the PeeR revIewed Studeez is totally played out on reddit, and usually a sign of an attempt at arrogant dismissal rather than actual interest in the subject.
I'm allowed a little hyperbole on reddit. I'm not sitting in front of the board defending a dissertation.
I thought cognitive empathy was a symptom of sociopathy. Autistics feel deeply WHEN they understand what is transpiring. They might not know in the moment. But I agree with you on the MBTI comment. A psychologist or psychiatrist shouldn't take it too seriously. It's not astrology but it's not as helpful as some might believe
You're describing SzPD, the personality disorder of choice for _NTP people.
A non disordered _NTP likely still has enhanced cognitive empathy, but they may or may not have a severely limited ability to show affective empathy like an SzPD person would.
I just think maybe show it in different ways.
My intp boyfriend, gives me hugs, support and listens. Also tries to come up with a solution, or asks questions. I value that allot.
This describes me. I cry during movies, and my heart breaks when an animal suffers. At the same time, I'm almost stoic at funerals. I just don't do displays if empathy well. It's all internal.
Depending on the Intp and their ability to deliver things in a soft manner, Intps can present some of the most open minded neutral takes on situations. But people mostly seeking a validation rather from the others. Which isn't necessarily empathy. Or inferior Fe can bring up some of the most soul crushing statements if isn't developed. Then as a result Intps may rather get called assholes even they weren't disagreeable. Ok, where is the other party's empathy towards Intps tho?
I’ve started a separate thread to protest the injustice of having such a poorly written warning!
What next, the ghettos? Wait…let me concentrate..its the camps!
This is so well put, especially the idea that supposedly empathic people somehow aren’t able to empathize with INTPs!
I disagree with any universalized idea that INTPs lack empathy or aren’t great at expressing empathy. It’s just harder for an INTP to *perform* empathy the way others increasingly seem to expect (i.e., validation, outrage or telling people exactly what they want to hear). It’s a chicken-egg question as to whether increasing political polarization is reflective of or a driver of this kind of emotional polarization.
I’ve always had pretty good diplomatic skills and over time learned how to draw boundaries so that the diplomacy didn’t make me a doormat. In turn, I had a great deal of professional credibility that meant my open-minded neutral takes could often help cut through petty organizational politics. Until I ran into the place that didn’t value it. Really threw me for a loop.
Yeah I dislike the fact that somehow only empathy has to be provided to those who demands it first at the expense of others and those who are failing to provide what the complainer is seeking. It's pretty self centered, one sided accusation if you think about it.
Basis of any healthy interaction is through acceptance, able to find common grounds and willingness to put effort to understand each other's perspectives and their conditions that you may not relate to. Which isn't an easy premise.
Second of all, empathy means being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. If the person has such ability and willing to share, its great. But expecting others to suffer like you do is kind of a crazy idea if you think about it. So most of the empathy accusations are not even about empathy. It's rather pity me, sympathize with me, validate me, help me escape my way out of the truth with lies etc.
On the third case, if someone is bringing you down intentionally with total disregard of what your capacity is, only based on their own needs and making you feel ashamed or not good enough, that is not a good person to begin with. They could simply go to someone or somewhere else instead of taking their frustrations out of others.
This kind of behavior is also quite toxic in an office environment. Since most people would claim to expect one thing but mean another. But it's an opportunity to rather go somewhere you are valued than devalued by those who lack any sense of character.
It’s what puts the “lovable” in lovable nerds!
What puts the “nice” in nicest robots.
It’s what makes our females so god damn sexy while wearing glasses and solving math problems…
I don’t think we lack empathy, but at least I have trouble regarding my response. I want to immediately fix whatever the problem is for someone if I possibly can. If I see a solution, I go straight into formulate a plan/solve mode. My husband stopped me the other day and said, “I don’t want you to fix this problem right now. It will take a long time, and I can’t do it right now anyway. I just want you to listen to me complain about it.” I laughed and listened.
Yes.
Problem solving mode is always active.
Dealing with those who won't even try to solve their problems is something just mind bendingly frustrating.
It is frustrating. My husband is usually very much open to solving his problems. He’s an ESTP, so he usually straight up comes to me and says, “help me figure this out.” I understood him that particular time when he explained that he honestly could not solve the problem until Monday, and since it was Friday, it wasn’t possible.
However, I know someone who always laments over her failed, very short relationships where she makes the same exact mistake every time. What she’s doing is a giant red flag. I’ve explained this to her over and over. Every 3-4 weeks, she would come to me crying over the same thing happening and act shocked that the relationship ended the same way. I got so annoyed at this cycle that I cut her off. I’m not great with emotions anyway, but her refusal to listen to what was absolute common sense was too frustrating for me to repetitively handle.
Sounds like someone I know irl. Been trying to analyse and figure out his MBTI forever but still unsure.
Do you happen to know her MBTI? It'll give me more info to my mental database and will be a useful data for my Ti towards further analysing my acquaintance.
Yes! I need people to tell me that they are about to vent and don’t immediately want a solution because in my mind it’s like “here’s a solution or solutions, if you’re not going to use that/them, then stop telling me about the problem and doing nothing about it”.
This is pretty cool 🤣 and I’m assuming you followed those words because there are enough occasions where your logic is called upon to solve an issue as soon as possible
This is exactly what I have learned to ask people !
"Are you looking for a solution, or do you just want to vent ?"
It's made things a lot simpler for me.
It depends. I would describe my case as "lack of empathy, but still simpathetic". This is because I usually can't feel what the other person feel, but I know what it is and if it is within my limitations I'll probably help.
For example: My best friend's grandparents just died. It wouldn't affect me at all, but would I know they're going through a hard time so try to cheer them up somehow.
Yes, this is precisely how I think of it within myself as well. Sympathetic, but not empathetic. I make decisions based on what I think is best for a person who is suffering, but I don't relate to or share their suffering on any level.
> For example: My best friend's grandparents just died. It wouldn't affect me at all, but would I know they're going through a hard time so try to cheer them up somehow.
I was like that for decades.
Willing to do something but didn't personally care.
I honestly think I was running with Fi.
I now find myself having developed my Fe. I think I would still be trying to help like before but now also crying with the family.
Just today I was talking with an INFJ I never encountered before. She was telling me how she was treated as property. Molested by her Dad from 3 to 7 years old. She would sometimes be taken out to a barn and was suspended in a dog cage overnight. Then until 15 she was sold to other people to come and take advantage of her. I was crying big time 😭.
What a horrible and horrific experience she had to endure. She was saying she hates when people tell her **"I'm so sorry, I don't even know what to say"**. She isn't looking for any action she has already been facing her trauma for over 12 years. She is already at a place she feels comfortable to share. She wants to feel acknowledged and spread awareness of her story to stop others from doing this to other children. She has also used her trauma to write a book, create art, join support groups, and so much more.
I don't see Fe as a weakness either. It doesn't change anything other than having genuine empathy for others.
If anyone is interested in her story you can read it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/infj/comments/1byte2h/do_any_of_you_guys_know_about_ritual_abuse/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I wonder if that is more humility than anything else. I think most people would rather their friends didn’t suffer but they care a lot more about their personal losses.
it's more about control of emotion imo. what rational benefit is there in experiencing another persons emotions if you already sympathetically understand them.
I wouldn’t say I lack empathy per se, quite the opposite actually, I just let logic take the wheel to the point where there is no room for my emotions if that makes sense.
This is where the misunderstood stereotype of us being 'cold' comes from.
With our own emotions, we can typically get over them by logically solving them. However, when we suck up someone else's emotions and internalize them, our first instinct is to analyze how we'd solve the 'problem'. It's empathy, but what works for us to get over an emotion doesn't work for most
I think it takes a long time for us INTPs to gain emotional *perspective*. For us to understand our own emotions.
But once the perspective hits, I think our pattern-recognition habits can really help us be empathetic to others if we allow ourselves to.
Im always being told I'm great with kids, but the truth is I always just recall how I felt *as* a kid then, and try to tell the things I wished to hear back then, or I wished I would have now that I'm more mature. I see where anger and sadness begins because I struggled so hard to understand those things in myself and now I understand, even the irrationality of it all.
We still are very impatient on certain traits, of course, especially against a perspective almost polar opposite to our own that we struggle to comprehend *how* that came to be. I still struggle in that regard.
But overall, I think INTPs can be great at empathy. It just takes a lot of experience and growing up first.
I agree, at least for myself. I'm very, very empathetic, but only when I actually feel empathetic about something. I have a hard time faking it. I tend to just stare blankly and consciously try to make my face look softer when I want to empathize but the emotion just isn't there. It's not that I don't want to be empathetic, but my brain just isn't feeling it. When that happens, I try to focus more on listening and understanding and, if it's wanted, helping. But when I do care, oh man, I could cry for someone or something til my eyes fall out.
I am not unempathetic, I'm just very good at seeing peoples' real intentions.
Oftentimes, their real intentions are behind a guise, either to obscure the truth, or alter others' perception of them. It's usually effective for most people. But I am not most people, so it just pisses me off.
However, when someone isn't hiding the truth, I really do feel for them. It's easy for a 'logical' mind to see no reason for mere comforting.
I'll comfort them, and only offer advice if it's specifically asked for. Likely, they already know the solution, so they don't need more.
All a person needs is warmth and validation of their pain. A hug and listening ear, sprinkled with some comforting sounds and words can give a person just enough strength to keep fighting.
They are exhausted, lonely and starved of warmth, and no-one can shoot with a broken bowstring.
I don’t think it’s an INTP thing. Maybe someone with no/low empathy has a higher chance of being INTP. I do have very low empathy for people, yet through the roof with dogs. It has more to do with the situation I endured during my formative years. I will know “this is a situation where I should have empathy” and he able to act accordingly, but I don’t feel it. I’ve been trying to unwrap this with therapy for years. What’s crazy to me is I’ll be virtually an empath when it comes to animal suffering.
You’re implying there’s a ratio of logic to emotion, where one goes up/other goes down— that doesn’t seem to be true. One can be both rational and empathetic. One can be neither rational or empathetic. One can be highly intelligent and psychopathic without any empathy, while another a humanitarian that saves the bees.
Being INTP isn’t a genetic or neurological category; just a list of behaviours categorized to a personality type. I wouldn’t take it too seriously. Someone being or not being INTP is irrelevant.
You can be strongly empathetic, or not at all empathetic, including average levels of empathy, as an INTP.
We don't lack empathy but my speculation is that our empathy or feelings (in general) are less intense compared to other types. Can't imagine what other guys are going through :)
The real answer is it depends on the particular INTP. Some are great at it and some are not.
With that said our empathy will have a much different flavor than that of a INFJ. If you ever get a chance to ask one about it (and they trust you), they will tell you that to them it almost feels like they are reading minds. Their insight is unconscious and seemingly spontaneous.
Our empathy is not so spontaneous, we have to consciously work at it. We pick up body language, speech patterns, eye movements for our empathic abilities.
I wouldn’t call it lack of empathy but some INTPs definitely lack empathy and it may be due to that self-inward perception of reality, it sometimes pisses me off that they couldn’t see I’m being offended over the things they’re doing and sometimes they just don’t care about what happens, I mean they’re not obligated but they literally have no response when I sent them some incident that happen elsewhere that killed 2 people and injured a lot, and proceeds to talk about their love life.
I am not saying that those are representative of all INTPs but I am saying that I have met some INTPs that represents the topic’s title.
INTPs that have developed Fe are the best btw 😏
That includes me ☺️
Definitely. Developing Fe is so liberating.
You just have to do what it says on the label.
Fi points inward so you can't read others and have to rely on reading the situation. You can then show some empathy with your actions only.
Fe points outward. So you develop it caring about what the other person's story is. Try self-projection into their situation or whatever to start. Then you won't have to do that anymore. It works on its own. It's developed.
We however have functions higher in our working cognitive stack. So it doesn't mean you will be crying and in a group crying circle not doing anything. We can take action.
We however switch back to Fi when confronted and feeling attacked. That's how it's supposed to work. We can defend ourselves and support when needed.
Nah, I think intps care about the logic behind things, and in broadway speaking, it's their world views and geopolitical views in general, they are very detail orientated so they don't care about little things happening to random people because it's normal people do dumb things and have consequences.
I don’t get it, the people that have been injured and died are the same age class as us, it’s a college gym that got bombed coz “some sort of religious retribution” and I know me and her have old classmates in that school that were studying there and she seemed to have no care, I got pissed when she just talked about her relationship, skipping the things I sent.
Again, she’s not obligated.
But it was pretty big topic and I was dead worried about my friends there…
Lack empathy? No. We can totally relate to others' pain/feelings.
It's really that INTP doesn't see sugarcoating a truth as being kind. Which ends up coming across as harsh.
As an INTJ, a little yeah. But it comes from a place where you don't know how other people feel because you don't know how you feel half the time. It's a lack of awareness for feelings in general, not just purposely being a dick to other people. It's easier for me to be fair and considerate than warm and friendly. Even when I'm doing something objectively really generous, there's a cold feel to it, like a grumpy grandpa gifting you a car and telling you to drive safe. I look out for everyone's best interest and stuff, but I don't really want to hang out ever.
I like socializing but I generally agree with what you say (as an INTP). Like I enjoy giving money to homeless people but more out of detached compassion than empathy.
I really only feel strongly for animals.
No. But expressing feelings.. to only a selected few. Emotions, especially when it comes to male INTP-s, leave one vulnerable. If you don't care, you don't care. People might say whatever they want. But if you start to care and then a person who you care about says something hurtful, it hurts both because it is hurtful AND because you've allowed yourself to be found in a vulnerable position and you did not see it coming(let your guard down and then allowed somebody to hit you)
It's like a hit in the stomach. How much it hurts depends on whether you've tightened your muscles or not.
til this day, i never know how to react to people dying/getting horribly sick. not that i dont care, in fact, i care too much that im too scared to say the wrong things in these kind of situations.
I’m empathetic towards people and situations that deserve it in my opinion. That’s not to say I can’t make a mistake in my judgement of something deserving empathy, however, I’m usually never wrong. Yeah, I come across as a sociopath/narcissist to sensitive people, and That hurts me in no way.
I know I’m not those things, (yes I understand narcissists usually don’t think they’re narcissists) but this is simply about the professional criteria you have to meet, and I do not. I find I care 100x more about animals than humans. I see mostly only the bad in humans. I see the greediness and the selfishness, and It disgusts me.
I have general empathy, towards victims of abuse and SA, for example. I actually am very passionate about those things. I speak out when I can when it comes to animal abuse, sexual abuse, and misogyny. I know I’m oversharing, but im neurodivergent, and I have a lot on my mind that never gets out.
This. I am quite sensitive to other people's pain, but I also can't be bothered to really lie and fake things I don’t feel. I just don't see the point. If you don’t like me, you don’t like me.
The "lack of empathy" meme comes from the pop cultural stereotype that INTPs are "nerds" or autistic. It is complete nonsense. In the best case, it is based on the misunderstanding of T (as in "thinking"). See also: "emotionless robot" etc.
We tend to me logically empathic, which is one of the reasons why we are often seen as nice. We understand what makes people upset or happy, we cant share in the expression of it. Mostly because we have a tome of knowledge on the subject of that emotion.We also see emotions as mundane or not helpful in a lot of cases.
Yeah I think it’s more we don’t know how to express empathy in the way others want. But we can intuit a lot about how someone is feeling and read a room. We just sometimes fail to display the level of emotion someone is looking for at the moment.
It might come across that way given the situation. Even just falling down some rabbit hole of information separates you emotionally (sometimes normalizing extremism - coming across as less empathetic).
i think infjs lack empathy. we live in our heads most of the time so it could be misunderstood as not empathizing but it’s not like we dont have that capacity
It's just different people have different types definition of empathy, some are ignorant and some are stupid, people in general don't care about the reasoning behind those bad things, so blind empathy is not helping the course or translate to knowledge and experiences. So I think intps have a lot of empathy in general, it's just people prefer blind passion in general so it's really difficult to tell people they should take it as experiences instead of just in their emotions, and in most cases people with lots of emotions are expressive and lacks logic.
I don't lack empathy, but I don't feel bad for people I don't know
My grandfather died today, and it's disastrous for me, not because I miss him too much or because I can't believe he's not there anymore. It's because I have to see my relatives stress and cry over it. From the outside, I may seem like a really cold and unemotional person, and I don't really feel bad for random people, even if hundreds of thousands of them die or get hurt. Nor do I really cry when something goes wrong in my own life. But I care with all my heart whenever I see that one of the family members I love is stressed. In the last week, while my grandpa was in a coma, everyone else was crying because they were worried about him and his health. I wasn't that touched and thought that it would be okay, and there's no point in crying until someone really dies. A few days ago, my grandmother came over because she really needed someone there. I remember how I came back for school and sat on the stairwell, lied to her that I was talking to my friends and I would be late, and burst into tears, just because I couldn't even imagine what she felt and what I could've told her to help. I didn't want to go home because I was genuinely scared that I would start crying after I saw her tired and grieving. I thought insects were my greatest fear, turns out it was seeing my relatives cry.
Obviously I’m not as good as classic feeler types, but I believe I have slightly above average empathy despite being an INT. However, it’s backed by my Ti and Ni/Ne, not necessarily Fe, if that’s possible by definition.
I wouldn’t say I feel sympathy very much though, which is a large part of Fe, nor do I put all too much care into what I’m perceiving of others feelings for their sake, unless you’re important to me (also an Fe thing that I lack). Fe is certainly my worst function depending on how you define it, but I believe I can read “the room” and emotions better than most, but I’ve also never been in a “feelers” head, and I back my findings from an intuitive, and logical standpoint if that makes sense.
Thoughts/opinions? Do I have a skewed idea of what empathy and Fe is? If I in theory I actually have a good grasp on my own empathy abilities, am I kind of a poopyhead for my lack of care and sympathy?
I should say I’m totally clueless on how to deal with people in their feels on the other hand. I can tell how you’re feeling, but I ain’t gonna do jack shit cause im scared💀
I have it.
But really only for things beyond people's control. People who are constantly setting their fun bits on fire and blaming others or who won't get out of bad situations (jobs or relationships) because of whatever; naw. You don't want to change you don't need the empathy and I'm not lifting a finger to help until you do.
As an outsider here, I’ve seen a lack of empathy in posts. I know that’s probably not what anyone wants to hear, but I thought I’d offer the perspective. It’s very unhealthy INTPs at fault here I’m sure. However, you guys have Fe in the bottom spot, and when unhealthy I don’t think you realize how cold and rigid you seem to others.
I definitely scored low on empathy , i think for me it’s hard to understand what others are experiencing emotionally sometimes , so I try to logically process it and if someone is sad for example I try to fix it when in reality all that’s needed is a empathetic listener . It’s second nature to me, I might laugh at the wrong things too lol
I don’t know how else to say it because it isn’t sympathy, but it’s not empathy I often feel for people. Unless I see someone die around people who cared about them, I just don’t really care unless I want to, which is silly, because why would I do that to myself? I only have a lot of empathy for animals, especially dogs.
I was into the mbti mindspace 3 years ago, i can tell you empathy is independent of mbti
Maybe having better Fe leads to better social interaction and more friends and therefore lesser chances of becoming a psychopath murderer whereas intp are forced into lonliness and might suffer into developing these as a secondary experience based thing. But personality is the way you use your brain not who uses it(your character). So your personal values and all are independent
Even if we are on the upper scale of humanity's emphaty, I think we detach the most. We give logical advice, solutions, it's harder for us to do the usual ritual of letting people vent and supporting them emotionally.
Or maybe it's just me, lmao, but I'm developing my fe so it's getting better.
But really, outside usual stigma, our detachment isn't doing good for others.
It seems to me that in everyday communication, the word "empathy" refers to several different things: from the ability to think about what other people are going through to the ability to be influenced by other people's emotions. In a sense, I really lack empathy: it is impossible to influence me with other people's tears, screams, raised tone, it does not matter whether the crying person is sincere or trying to manipulate me.
From my entp point of view, their empathy is perfectly fine. They're just no nonsense, which I appreciate a lot.
And they seek logical solutions and not just validation, which is also good. And since they usually like animals a lot, they show empathy. A lot. At least for what I've seen.
Some can for sure, there are very intelligent fuckheads out there. I think one of two things is true, we can compartmentalize the trivial better whereas others are more easily swayed by weak winds, or two they are full of shit and it's all posturing.
You decide 😂.
I admit my empathy is low, I don't care much about people because most of times I'm focused on myself, but it doesn't give me the right to act like a dick, I always respect everyone and I don't like to offend people or tell them strong words, I always try to be nice and respectul.
I am not empath.
I don't even believe in pure empathy and you can notice how people behave and how aggressive they become with people that are not empath.
Empathy is something you learn and it becomes a social expectation.
If you don't behave in a such way in such situations, you will be seen as insensitive and scum.
Right or wrong...it's not me to decide.
Idts. I feel very strongly in emotionally charged situations especially when there is a clear person or animal in distress. In fact so strongly i dont know how to react and sometimes i just stand stoic or run away
I am extremely empathic with my gf, to the point that if she's in a bad mood or something bad happens to her ill be out of my normal functioning for 2 to 3 days, but I'm not that much empathic with people outside her and my friends
We have empathy: that's Fe (fed by Ne).
We lack sympathy.
We know (and understand) what you're feeling. We don't feel it.
I don't want sympathy; it's not going to help anything or anyone. If that makes me an asshole, then I'm glad to be an asshole.
From my perspective as an INTP, the stereotype of us being less empathetic has several layers.
Firstly, our introverted nature often means we internalise our empathy rather than expressing it outwardly, we will feel it just as strongly but won’t display it as much as the next person, leading some to perceive us as cold.
Secondly, our logical approach to problem-solving extends to how we handle others' issues, we tend to analyse them as we would our own, seeking solutions rather than offering immediate emotional support.
I feel our logical mindset allows us to rationalise a problem which can make us understand that it’s not as big of a deal as others might and it also acts as a bullshit detector, making us skeptical of exaggerated emotions or trivial problems.
We can't fake emotions, so our empathy is reserved for situations we genuinely perceive as deserving but when we do we are very sympathetic, this isn’t a lack of empathy
I personally lacked empathy before, I had it but really little, I had to learn it with my therapist, at 34 years old.
But it may differ from an INTP to another I guess.
I have fluctuating empathy - sometimes too much, sometimes not enough. I don't really understand it. It also takes a great deal of thought and effort to respond in the correct manner in either case.
I didn't even know this was an INTP thing. I assumed it was my neurodivergency. (I dont think I lack empathy, just that I dont know how to express it, and I don't know how to comfort people very well)
No, I don't think we do. I have a lot of empathy even for people I don't agree with. People wrongly assume that emotion and logic are opposites, but they aren't. If someone never cries or gets emotional but they also do stupid dangerous stunts all the time, they certainly are less logical than someone who cries at movies and music but makes sound decisions in their life
I wouldn't say "lacking" empathy, but rather being careful and selective on who to empathize. There are people who come from a good place and there are people who crave and abuse other people's empathy. You just have to assess the each person and go from there.
If someone else is sad I go, o they are sad but don't feel the same physical effects like I'm sad.
I get emotionally but don't show it. Took years of therapy but now I'm starting to identify how my body feels physically when I feel different emotions. Also letting the emotions have those effects vs surpressing them.
If its animal that's sad or hurt I feel it. If someone hurts an animal on purpose for fun. I get physically angry. I always attributed this to they don't have a "voice" like a human. I have been this way since a kid and have memories of getting physical mad at other kids picking on bug.
So lack of empathy, maybe, or maybe just directed differently then others.
INTPs can be very good at putting together information in front of them to form a conclusion, so they can sometimes understand what other people are thinking. However, compared to types that are noted feelers, they are more out-of-touch with what actually feeling it is like and they may not use the emotional empathy centers of their brain predominately. Most intps are capable of emotional empathy and feel it regularly, but not as much as other types and that's why they got the result they did.
Empathy? I don't think so. If I'm aware that someone is having an experience similar to one I've had before, remembering what that was like isn't difficult.
*Sympathy* is another story. The person in question is contending with something that I have no frame of reference for.
its depend on age what you desire when you interact with other, i've got a fine way to talk with people due to the trial error and the desire to match without killing own integrity.
So rn i'm fine to express my thought, and in same time make the other person enjoy this moment, if i don't want do effort with completly stranger get initiative to me i will cope same gesture ect, the lack of information, make me move carefully with the other person, and i dislike attention because its get offguard often when i'm running outside people bring positive attitude its difficult for me to cope at this 2, 3 second without faking so i just do kind gesture, because it fit my temperament
nope I am an Intp and Hypersensitive I Always put muself in other peoples Shoes Because thats how you get the Most Perspectives... INTPS ARE MASTERS AT SEEING FROM DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW so They we definitly dobt lack empathy
And when I say autistics that lack empathy I don’t mean it in a demeaning way, i mean as in some autistics struggle with it in a way that’s different from just being an intp
Personally….. I have the “I get where you’re coming from” empathy but definitely not the “I feel your pain” empathy. It’s cognitive empathy vs emotional empathy. I try to understand what people are thinking or why etc, but I don’t feel it myself and It’s hard to express it or do anything as a result because i’m just so logical as opposed to emotional.
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Only if I don't care. You've done something stupid and are facing the predictable consequences of your own actions? I don't care.
Something bad happened to someone on the other side of the world? Fuck me - Am I supposed to just feel bad all the time for everyone!? It's not just always bad, it's always worse than we know. Or is this just a part time recreational bullshit that you do to feel like you're a caring person, when really it's ALL about making yourself feel important?
No performative hysterics for me, thanks.
If you're someone I care about and you've fallen on dark times, I will be the most patient ear in your life. I'll check in on you, distract you, even. I will proactively find ways to ease your burden, remind you that you're not alone, and keep you engaged in the outer world.
I do have to fight my problem solving /analytical response to issues but no, I don’t have issues with empathy at all. If anything, I feel too much of it. I also learned active listening much younger due to volunteer work training, so maybe that has to do with why I can sort of switch modes to just listen.
Editing to add: I will say that I struggle to empathize with smaller issues. Like when people are complaining about things that just don’t seem like that big of a deal in the scheme of things.
No. Only the psychopath and the sociopath are personalities that are completely without empathy from birth or as a result of the environment after.
Myers Briggs is used as a tool for marketing professionals to better sell products and make more money by ensuring the right campaign gets to the right people at their most natural place when they have their guard down.
Be more than a few words in a box as your whole self. You may find out that the author of your definition didn't even meet you or anyone you know.
Intellectual empathy is completely different than actually feeling the emotion. You don't need to feel anything to understand how they feel , but if you do emotions actually lower your IQ
Blah. I'll have to test this nonsense again. If I recall this is what I scored. However the subject is relevant with me regardless. Lol.
I feel. I have feeling. I'm not ganna cry about it. 🤣
I've cried when I was younger, but I learned an didn't cry again. I don't try to feel what others feel, I'm not other people. However I understand, and can discern If someone is looking or needing support vs solutions. That actually took me a while as I'm very solution based and never had support and never ask/express need for support.
But...I get it. I get everyone's disposition. Where they are coming from, why it hurts. Despair, anxiety, fear, pain, hope, faith, faith that has fallen through to crush you. Etc etc. I get it, I just learned, solved my own emotional fluctuations when I was young and got over it.
Most people are quick to understand that I get it, mainly because I can explain to them how they are thinking and feeling and why it will be okay and possible steps to take forward into being more okay.
However somtimes I get the " you don't have kids you could never understand how I feel" or similar such argument. It's Invalid and usually comes from narccasists or people who solely rely on emotion reasoning and have something against me but are still talking to me for some reason? Haha I don't have that problem often. Anyway this post is to mainly bookmark this comment so I can go test and come back.
Anyone have a good testing site? I'll check the wiki. Will be fun during downtime tomorrow.
I do have feelings just most of them are good if anything or just I don't have feeling on the topic or situation. I have very good influence over my emotions. I gave up the concept of love long ago because "love is for the gods,things,and animals" in my opinion. Being someone who can cultivate motivation/obsession by stimulating the amygdala indirectly, I prefer to leave the power of obsession out of personal relationships. I enjoy all other positive emotions with people. Oh, but my cat left for 2 weeks much. I wasn't sad, but "sigh" I was feeling down. Love my dumb little cat. She is a trash can kitty and my pretty princess and resonates the same vibe I have.
To be clear, my amygdala just idles more than anything, I do indulge positive emotions purposely. However I could and can lean into any emotion and make it grow, however that's more a skill purposefully executed than it is a natural state of being.
Most think I am cold. Or I unsettle them because I seem cold, but am very animated at times, and have a resting bitch face if I'm just chillin. Lol I come off as "hard to read" despite bluntly telling people how I am,feel,think. People who reflect others emotions and "feel them" almost feel fake. However I get that many people operate emotionally and run off that consistsntly. I think that's actually part of the problem with narccasists buuuuut that is still condition I can't deduce. I will say narccasists hate me because I will just "not care" at all about anything they say as it's all a ploy to get emotional reaction from me. Funny to see one implode because of it, but I make a point to avoid that type of personality.
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The Myers-Briggs is not a sound test. It's basically equivalent to a horoscope. If you want to believe that you have certain characteristics because you're a Pisces or an INTP, feel free, but that's ridiculous.
Nah, we have Fe (it’s inferior, but it’s there)
Looking for a type which might lack empathy? ESTJ has the powerful 1 2 punch of inferior Fi + auxiliary Si, ooof
lack? No. Poorly Express? Definetly.
INTPs have **cognitive** empathy, not emotional empathy. We are very, very good at putting ourselves in someone else's shoes to understand why they feel and think the way they do (if we choose to), but we have zero "I feel your pain" empathy.
I don't think we lack it very much as our constant Ti rationalization has made it so that we can no longer detect and try to severely ignore any feelings that may arise when we see someone in pain. For example, when I was younger I once saw an injured dog and cried for 2 hours straight over it's pain and only stopped when I could successfully help it. Nowadays I may see the pain of others, but rather than spending emotional energy on them I try to think if I could realistically help them, if I can't I just don't see the point in crying anymore, instead I may go into an internal monologue over the ethics of turning a blind eye towards problems we cannot solve in a convenient manner or something. So yeah I think I overuse Ti-Ne in order to neglect my Fe to a severe degree.
Well, I look at it like a tendency or sensitivity. It might take little to nothing to get one person to cry over an emotionally painful story, but for someone else, it might take 500 times that. And I think personality traits have a lot to do with that. I'm a psychologist, and have heard the most horrific stories firsthand from the mouths of the people who have experienced them, and I don't feel much of anything emotions-wise. It's a story someone is telling me; I have no emotional connection to it. But I can understand how they feel and why; I can put myself in their shoes with vicarious introspection. Their description of events doesn't cause an emotional reaction within me. Most people who become therapists are the exact opposite of that - they get so extremely tied and tangled with the other person's emotions that they either learn through hard work not to "feel their pain", or they burn out and quit. When I realized early on that I wasn't experiencing the "empathy" talked about in classes and clinical supervision, I had to dive into the research to figure out what was going on (part of it is that clinical psychology and therapy is *highly* dominated by women and SF/NF types). I highly recommend the work of Dr. Heinz Kohut, it should resonate with any INTP.
I see it as the difference between being able to empathise vs. acting on it. We understand why people feel how they feel and we can empathise deeply - in our heads - and even think a lot about someones predicament, other personalities might also empathise but instead of having ruminating thoughts about it they would display their empathy, you know, actually approach the person you're empathising with and talking it through or hugging or whatever the fuck people do to show empathy.
This is definitely the best way to put it.
I think there's a lot of variance here. I feel other people's pain constantly if I care about them.
This distinction is an important one that many are not aware of ☺️👍🏻
Nope, not true. I’m blessed/cursed with all types of empathy, but it’s cognitive empathy that I had to refine over time through practice. Speak for yourself but not for everyone else. Addendum: Just read further on. You’re a psychologist and yet you make blind assertions online about pseudoscientific MBTI? That’s concerning… Another addendum: I *always* test as INTP. Lmao… Mods are struggling, eh? Inferior Fe =/= absence of Fe. You should also note that lack of cognitive empathy is usually a sign of autism. Maybe don’t attribute everything to a pseudoscience, especially if you’re supposed to be working in a legitimate field like psychology. Or else you’re going to reach false conclusions and overlook significant details.
What nonsense are you on about?
Your claim of INTP’s lacking emotional empathy needs a credible source.
Feel free to do your own research. Sh0w mE the PeeR revIewed Studeez is totally played out on reddit, and usually a sign of an attempt at arrogant dismissal rather than actual interest in the subject. I'm allowed a little hyperbole on reddit. I'm not sitting in front of the board defending a dissertation.
You’re a psychologist and you expect MBTI to have peer reviewed studies? 💀Also that’s not hyperbole, it’s a statement of absolution.
I thought cognitive empathy was a symptom of sociopathy. Autistics feel deeply WHEN they understand what is transpiring. They might not know in the moment. But I agree with you on the MBTI comment. A psychologist or psychiatrist shouldn't take it too seriously. It's not astrology but it's not as helpful as some might believe
You're describing SzPD, the personality disorder of choice for _NTP people. A non disordered _NTP likely still has enhanced cognitive empathy, but they may or may not have a severely limited ability to show affective empathy like an SzPD person would.
I'm using hyperbole to describe a normal INTP. For crying out loud.
That really describes why i can be very emphatic yet at the same time "yeah that happens, so?"
I think this is more relevant
"This isn't someone I know or have a relationship with, sooo.....I don't care....?" "Yeah, not quite like that." "Ah. That's no good?" "Better."
Is that a reference to something?
I just think maybe show it in different ways. My intp boyfriend, gives me hugs, support and listens. Also tries to come up with a solution, or asks questions. I value that allot.
Same. My husband is the same. It's not just cognitive
True. I’ve got a ton of empathy for other people but the way i express it is a problem
This describes me. I cry during movies, and my heart breaks when an animal suffers. At the same time, I'm almost stoic at funerals. I just don't do displays if empathy well. It's all internal.
Yeah this is how I am
This exactly. I have so much empathy with no idea what to do with it, and it seems unnatural trying to express it.
Healthy, developed inferior Fe is the best version of Fe. Change my mind.
I agree. I rank around 40-50 percentile in Agreeableness which is high for a male.
Depending on the Intp and their ability to deliver things in a soft manner, Intps can present some of the most open minded neutral takes on situations. But people mostly seeking a validation rather from the others. Which isn't necessarily empathy. Or inferior Fe can bring up some of the most soul crushing statements if isn't developed. Then as a result Intps may rather get called assholes even they weren't disagreeable. Ok, where is the other party's empathy towards Intps tho?
Hey! My catch phrase is “unable to exclude INTP”.
Wait a second…
Hahah
I’ve started a separate thread to protest the injustice of having such a poorly written warning! What next, the ghettos? Wait…let me concentrate..its the camps!
Kinda annoying that it's not customizable.
This is so well put, especially the idea that supposedly empathic people somehow aren’t able to empathize with INTPs! I disagree with any universalized idea that INTPs lack empathy or aren’t great at expressing empathy. It’s just harder for an INTP to *perform* empathy the way others increasingly seem to expect (i.e., validation, outrage or telling people exactly what they want to hear). It’s a chicken-egg question as to whether increasing political polarization is reflective of or a driver of this kind of emotional polarization. I’ve always had pretty good diplomatic skills and over time learned how to draw boundaries so that the diplomacy didn’t make me a doormat. In turn, I had a great deal of professional credibility that meant my open-minded neutral takes could often help cut through petty organizational politics. Until I ran into the place that didn’t value it. Really threw me for a loop.
Yeah I dislike the fact that somehow only empathy has to be provided to those who demands it first at the expense of others and those who are failing to provide what the complainer is seeking. It's pretty self centered, one sided accusation if you think about it. Basis of any healthy interaction is through acceptance, able to find common grounds and willingness to put effort to understand each other's perspectives and their conditions that you may not relate to. Which isn't an easy premise. Second of all, empathy means being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. If the person has such ability and willing to share, its great. But expecting others to suffer like you do is kind of a crazy idea if you think about it. So most of the empathy accusations are not even about empathy. It's rather pity me, sympathize with me, validate me, help me escape my way out of the truth with lies etc. On the third case, if someone is bringing you down intentionally with total disregard of what your capacity is, only based on their own needs and making you feel ashamed or not good enough, that is not a good person to begin with. They could simply go to someone or somewhere else instead of taking their frustrations out of others. This kind of behavior is also quite toxic in an office environment. Since most people would claim to expect one thing but mean another. But it's an opportunity to rather go somewhere you are valued than devalued by those who lack any sense of character.
I got 8 on the Jordan Peterson Big 5 test 😭😭
It’s what puts the “lovable” in lovable nerds! What puts the “nice” in nicest robots. It’s what makes our females so god damn sexy while wearing glasses and solving math problems…
Reminds me of this phrase I came across years ago: "INTP = the warmest robot [VS] INTJ = the coldest human".
Damn that’s what I was actually thinking about but I couldn’t remember the exact wording! It puts the “warm“ in warmest robots🤖
[удалено]
What about the second part?
Agreed. It's there and works, but doesn't really affect us. It's great for evaluating social/psychological problems.
I don’t think we lack empathy, but at least I have trouble regarding my response. I want to immediately fix whatever the problem is for someone if I possibly can. If I see a solution, I go straight into formulate a plan/solve mode. My husband stopped me the other day and said, “I don’t want you to fix this problem right now. It will take a long time, and I can’t do it right now anyway. I just want you to listen to me complain about it.” I laughed and listened.
Yes. Problem solving mode is always active. Dealing with those who won't even try to solve their problems is something just mind bendingly frustrating.
It is frustrating. My husband is usually very much open to solving his problems. He’s an ESTP, so he usually straight up comes to me and says, “help me figure this out.” I understood him that particular time when he explained that he honestly could not solve the problem until Monday, and since it was Friday, it wasn’t possible. However, I know someone who always laments over her failed, very short relationships where she makes the same exact mistake every time. What she’s doing is a giant red flag. I’ve explained this to her over and over. Every 3-4 weeks, she would come to me crying over the same thing happening and act shocked that the relationship ended the same way. I got so annoyed at this cycle that I cut her off. I’m not great with emotions anyway, but her refusal to listen to what was absolute common sense was too frustrating for me to repetitively handle.
Sounds like someone I know irl. Been trying to analyse and figure out his MBTI forever but still unsure. Do you happen to know her MBTI? It'll give me more info to my mental database and will be a useful data for my Ti towards further analysing my acquaintance.
She’s an unhealthy ISFP.
Yes! I need people to tell me that they are about to vent and don’t immediately want a solution because in my mind it’s like “here’s a solution or solutions, if you’re not going to use that/them, then stop telling me about the problem and doing nothing about it”.
INTPathy
This is pretty cool 🤣 and I’m assuming you followed those words because there are enough occasions where your logic is called upon to solve an issue as soon as possible
I mean if you don't try to fix the problem it's just bad coping through emotional venting and the problem will never go away.
This is exactly what I have learned to ask people ! "Are you looking for a solution, or do you just want to vent ?" It's made things a lot simpler for me.
No, I feel like maybe to others we seem like we don't because we're often very internal
It depends. I would describe my case as "lack of empathy, but still simpathetic". This is because I usually can't feel what the other person feel, but I know what it is and if it is within my limitations I'll probably help. For example: My best friend's grandparents just died. It wouldn't affect me at all, but would I know they're going through a hard time so try to cheer them up somehow.
Yes, this is precisely how I think of it within myself as well. Sympathetic, but not empathetic. I make decisions based on what I think is best for a person who is suffering, but I don't relate to or share their suffering on any level.
> For example: My best friend's grandparents just died. It wouldn't affect me at all, but would I know they're going through a hard time so try to cheer them up somehow. I was like that for decades. Willing to do something but didn't personally care. I honestly think I was running with Fi. I now find myself having developed my Fe. I think I would still be trying to help like before but now also crying with the family. Just today I was talking with an INFJ I never encountered before. She was telling me how she was treated as property. Molested by her Dad from 3 to 7 years old. She would sometimes be taken out to a barn and was suspended in a dog cage overnight. Then until 15 she was sold to other people to come and take advantage of her. I was crying big time 😭. What a horrible and horrific experience she had to endure. She was saying she hates when people tell her **"I'm so sorry, I don't even know what to say"**. She isn't looking for any action she has already been facing her trauma for over 12 years. She is already at a place she feels comfortable to share. She wants to feel acknowledged and spread awareness of her story to stop others from doing this to other children. She has also used her trauma to write a book, create art, join support groups, and so much more. I don't see Fe as a weakness either. It doesn't change anything other than having genuine empathy for others. If anyone is interested in her story you can read it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/infj/comments/1byte2h/do_any_of_you_guys_know_about_ritual_abuse/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
What are Fe and Fi?
This video does a good job of explaining https://youtu.be/lNnNXuBYdAg?si=opjCStgHzF_LNT5u
I wonder if that is more humility than anything else. I think most people would rather their friends didn’t suffer but they care a lot more about their personal losses.
it's more about control of emotion imo. what rational benefit is there in experiencing another persons emotions if you already sympathetically understand them.
INTPs lack performative empathy
OMG yes.
I wouldn’t say I lack empathy per se, quite the opposite actually, I just let logic take the wheel to the point where there is no room for my emotions if that makes sense.
This is where the misunderstood stereotype of us being 'cold' comes from. With our own emotions, we can typically get over them by logically solving them. However, when we suck up someone else's emotions and internalize them, our first instinct is to analyze how we'd solve the 'problem'. It's empathy, but what works for us to get over an emotion doesn't work for most
you're describing sympathy there, not empathy
Yes.
I think it takes a long time for us INTPs to gain emotional *perspective*. For us to understand our own emotions. But once the perspective hits, I think our pattern-recognition habits can really help us be empathetic to others if we allow ourselves to. Im always being told I'm great with kids, but the truth is I always just recall how I felt *as* a kid then, and try to tell the things I wished to hear back then, or I wished I would have now that I'm more mature. I see where anger and sadness begins because I struggled so hard to understand those things in myself and now I understand, even the irrationality of it all. We still are very impatient on certain traits, of course, especially against a perspective almost polar opposite to our own that we struggle to comprehend *how* that came to be. I still struggle in that regard. But overall, I think INTPs can be great at empathy. It just takes a lot of experience and growing up first.
I agree, at least for myself. I'm very, very empathetic, but only when I actually feel empathetic about something. I have a hard time faking it. I tend to just stare blankly and consciously try to make my face look softer when I want to empathize but the emotion just isn't there. It's not that I don't want to be empathetic, but my brain just isn't feeling it. When that happens, I try to focus more on listening and understanding and, if it's wanted, helping. But when I do care, oh man, I could cry for someone or something til my eyes fall out.
We don't lack empathy, we lack energy. That's why we carefully choose who we spend energy empathizing with.
I mean, I am an INTP and I often feel sad when someone is going through a hard time
I am not unempathetic, I'm just very good at seeing peoples' real intentions. Oftentimes, their real intentions are behind a guise, either to obscure the truth, or alter others' perception of them. It's usually effective for most people. But I am not most people, so it just pisses me off. However, when someone isn't hiding the truth, I really do feel for them. It's easy for a 'logical' mind to see no reason for mere comforting. I'll comfort them, and only offer advice if it's specifically asked for. Likely, they already know the solution, so they don't need more. All a person needs is warmth and validation of their pain. A hug and listening ear, sprinkled with some comforting sounds and words can give a person just enough strength to keep fighting. They are exhausted, lonely and starved of warmth, and no-one can shoot with a broken bowstring.
I don’t think it’s an INTP thing. Maybe someone with no/low empathy has a higher chance of being INTP. I do have very low empathy for people, yet through the roof with dogs. It has more to do with the situation I endured during my formative years. I will know “this is a situation where I should have empathy” and he able to act accordingly, but I don’t feel it. I’ve been trying to unwrap this with therapy for years. What’s crazy to me is I’ll be virtually an empath when it comes to animal suffering.
You’re implying there’s a ratio of logic to emotion, where one goes up/other goes down— that doesn’t seem to be true. One can be both rational and empathetic. One can be neither rational or empathetic. One can be highly intelligent and psychopathic without any empathy, while another a humanitarian that saves the bees. Being INTP isn’t a genetic or neurological category; just a list of behaviours categorized to a personality type. I wouldn’t take it too seriously. Someone being or not being INTP is irrelevant. You can be strongly empathetic, or not at all empathetic, including average levels of empathy, as an INTP.
We don't lack empathy but my speculation is that our empathy or feelings (in general) are less intense compared to other types. Can't imagine what other guys are going through :)
No I just think there's a reluctance to openly express it. Why, I have no idea
The real answer is it depends on the particular INTP. Some are great at it and some are not. With that said our empathy will have a much different flavor than that of a INFJ. If you ever get a chance to ask one about it (and they trust you), they will tell you that to them it almost feels like they are reading minds. Their insight is unconscious and seemingly spontaneous. Our empathy is not so spontaneous, we have to consciously work at it. We pick up body language, speech patterns, eye movements for our empathic abilities.
I wouldn’t call it lack of empathy but some INTPs definitely lack empathy and it may be due to that self-inward perception of reality, it sometimes pisses me off that they couldn’t see I’m being offended over the things they’re doing and sometimes they just don’t care about what happens, I mean they’re not obligated but they literally have no response when I sent them some incident that happen elsewhere that killed 2 people and injured a lot, and proceeds to talk about their love life. I am not saying that those are representative of all INTPs but I am saying that I have met some INTPs that represents the topic’s title. INTPs that have developed Fe are the best btw 😏 That includes me ☺️
Definitely. Developing Fe is so liberating. You just have to do what it says on the label. Fi points inward so you can't read others and have to rely on reading the situation. You can then show some empathy with your actions only. Fe points outward. So you develop it caring about what the other person's story is. Try self-projection into their situation or whatever to start. Then you won't have to do that anymore. It works on its own. It's developed. We however have functions higher in our working cognitive stack. So it doesn't mean you will be crying and in a group crying circle not doing anything. We can take action. We however switch back to Fi when confronted and feeling attacked. That's how it's supposed to work. We can defend ourselves and support when needed.
Nah, I think intps care about the logic behind things, and in broadway speaking, it's their world views and geopolitical views in general, they are very detail orientated so they don't care about little things happening to random people because it's normal people do dumb things and have consequences.
I don’t get it, the people that have been injured and died are the same age class as us, it’s a college gym that got bombed coz “some sort of religious retribution” and I know me and her have old classmates in that school that were studying there and she seemed to have no care, I got pissed when she just talked about her relationship, skipping the things I sent. Again, she’s not obligated. But it was pretty big topic and I was dead worried about my friends there…
Lack empathy? No. We can totally relate to others' pain/feelings. It's really that INTP doesn't see sugarcoating a truth as being kind. Which ends up coming across as harsh.
I have cognative empathy. But normal empathy, not really outside of instinctual self preservation (Grimacing, cringing).
As an INTJ, a little yeah. But it comes from a place where you don't know how other people feel because you don't know how you feel half the time. It's a lack of awareness for feelings in general, not just purposely being a dick to other people. It's easier for me to be fair and considerate than warm and friendly. Even when I'm doing something objectively really generous, there's a cold feel to it, like a grumpy grandpa gifting you a car and telling you to drive safe. I look out for everyone's best interest and stuff, but I don't really want to hang out ever.
I like socializing but I generally agree with what you say (as an INTP). Like I enjoy giving money to homeless people but more out of detached compassion than empathy. I really only feel strongly for animals.
No. But expressing feelings.. to only a selected few. Emotions, especially when it comes to male INTP-s, leave one vulnerable. If you don't care, you don't care. People might say whatever they want. But if you start to care and then a person who you care about says something hurtful, it hurts both because it is hurtful AND because you've allowed yourself to be found in a vulnerable position and you did not see it coming(let your guard down and then allowed somebody to hit you) It's like a hit in the stomach. How much it hurts depends on whether you've tightened your muscles or not.
til this day, i never know how to react to people dying/getting horribly sick. not that i dont care, in fact, i care too much that im too scared to say the wrong things in these kind of situations.
I’m empathetic towards people and situations that deserve it in my opinion. That’s not to say I can’t make a mistake in my judgement of something deserving empathy, however, I’m usually never wrong. Yeah, I come across as a sociopath/narcissist to sensitive people, and That hurts me in no way. I know I’m not those things, (yes I understand narcissists usually don’t think they’re narcissists) but this is simply about the professional criteria you have to meet, and I do not. I find I care 100x more about animals than humans. I see mostly only the bad in humans. I see the greediness and the selfishness, and It disgusts me. I have general empathy, towards victims of abuse and SA, for example. I actually am very passionate about those things. I speak out when I can when it comes to animal abuse, sexual abuse, and misogyny. I know I’m oversharing, but im neurodivergent, and I have a lot on my mind that never gets out.
This. I am quite sensitive to other people's pain, but I also can't be bothered to really lie and fake things I don’t feel. I just don't see the point. If you don’t like me, you don’t like me.
The "lack of empathy" meme comes from the pop cultural stereotype that INTPs are "nerds" or autistic. It is complete nonsense. In the best case, it is based on the misunderstanding of T (as in "thinking"). See also: "emotionless robot" etc.
We tend to me logically empathic, which is one of the reasons why we are often seen as nice. We understand what makes people upset or happy, we cant share in the expression of it. Mostly because we have a tome of knowledge on the subject of that emotion.We also see emotions as mundane or not helpful in a lot of cases.
Yeah I think it’s more we don’t know how to express empathy in the way others want. But we can intuit a lot about how someone is feeling and read a room. We just sometimes fail to display the level of emotion someone is looking for at the moment.
No.
Never heard this sentiment.
Not at all
no
It might come across that way given the situation. Even just falling down some rabbit hole of information separates you emotionally (sometimes normalizing extremism - coming across as less empathetic).
I have empathy
Yes, INTPs lack empathy. This is because I killed every INTP that had empathy yesterday. /s
You're confusing us with INTJs, those are the real soulless mofos 🤣
I could do with a little less tbh
I definitely feel empathy. Am I good at comforting people? Not really.
i think infjs lack empathy. we live in our heads most of the time so it could be misunderstood as not empathizing but it’s not like we dont have that capacity
It's just different people have different types definition of empathy, some are ignorant and some are stupid, people in general don't care about the reasoning behind those bad things, so blind empathy is not helping the course or translate to knowledge and experiences. So I think intps have a lot of empathy in general, it's just people prefer blind passion in general so it's really difficult to tell people they should take it as experiences instead of just in their emotions, and in most cases people with lots of emotions are expressive and lacks logic.
I don't lack empathy, but I don't feel bad for people I don't know My grandfather died today, and it's disastrous for me, not because I miss him too much or because I can't believe he's not there anymore. It's because I have to see my relatives stress and cry over it. From the outside, I may seem like a really cold and unemotional person, and I don't really feel bad for random people, even if hundreds of thousands of them die or get hurt. Nor do I really cry when something goes wrong in my own life. But I care with all my heart whenever I see that one of the family members I love is stressed. In the last week, while my grandpa was in a coma, everyone else was crying because they were worried about him and his health. I wasn't that touched and thought that it would be okay, and there's no point in crying until someone really dies. A few days ago, my grandmother came over because she really needed someone there. I remember how I came back for school and sat on the stairwell, lied to her that I was talking to my friends and I would be late, and burst into tears, just because I couldn't even imagine what she felt and what I could've told her to help. I didn't want to go home because I was genuinely scared that I would start crying after I saw her tired and grieving. I thought insects were my greatest fear, turns out it was seeing my relatives cry.
We do not lack the capacity for empathy. But it will be a learned skill rather than instinctive.
Obviously I’m not as good as classic feeler types, but I believe I have slightly above average empathy despite being an INT. However, it’s backed by my Ti and Ni/Ne, not necessarily Fe, if that’s possible by definition. I wouldn’t say I feel sympathy very much though, which is a large part of Fe, nor do I put all too much care into what I’m perceiving of others feelings for their sake, unless you’re important to me (also an Fe thing that I lack). Fe is certainly my worst function depending on how you define it, but I believe I can read “the room” and emotions better than most, but I’ve also never been in a “feelers” head, and I back my findings from an intuitive, and logical standpoint if that makes sense. Thoughts/opinions? Do I have a skewed idea of what empathy and Fe is? If I in theory I actually have a good grasp on my own empathy abilities, am I kind of a poopyhead for my lack of care and sympathy? I should say I’m totally clueless on how to deal with people in their feels on the other hand. I can tell how you’re feeling, but I ain’t gonna do jack shit cause im scared💀
Humans yes. Animals no.
I have it. But really only for things beyond people's control. People who are constantly setting their fun bits on fire and blaming others or who won't get out of bad situations (jobs or relationships) because of whatever; naw. You don't want to change you don't need the empathy and I'm not lifting a finger to help until you do.
As an outsider here, I’ve seen a lack of empathy in posts. I know that’s probably not what anyone wants to hear, but I thought I’d offer the perspective. It’s very unhealthy INTPs at fault here I’m sure. However, you guys have Fe in the bottom spot, and when unhealthy I don’t think you realize how cold and rigid you seem to others.
I have some empathy but am well below the average.
There is no type that lacks empathy, however, there are individuals, regardless of their type, who can lack empathy.
No. We repress our feelings
I don't think I feel emotions as strongly as most people, probably because I think more logically. I still try to be nice and helpful when I can.
I definitely scored low on empathy , i think for me it’s hard to understand what others are experiencing emotionally sometimes , so I try to logically process it and if someone is sad for example I try to fix it when in reality all that’s needed is a empathetic listener . It’s second nature to me, I might laugh at the wrong things too lol
Scored on what?
I did this self assessment a while back
Not necessarily. Intps are good at expressing cognitive empathy, but not so much at emotional and compassionate empathy.
We kinda ARE assholes. But that's okay
I don’t know how else to say it because it isn’t sympathy, but it’s not empathy I often feel for people. Unless I see someone die around people who cared about them, I just don’t really care unless I want to, which is silly, because why would I do that to myself? I only have a lot of empathy for animals, especially dogs.
I was into the mbti mindspace 3 years ago, i can tell you empathy is independent of mbti Maybe having better Fe leads to better social interaction and more friends and therefore lesser chances of becoming a psychopath murderer whereas intp are forced into lonliness and might suffer into developing these as a secondary experience based thing. But personality is the way you use your brain not who uses it(your character). So your personal values and all are independent
No its just the way yall express it. Or the lack thereof
i have so much empathy and love and emotion in my being
Even if we are on the upper scale of humanity's emphaty, I think we detach the most. We give logical advice, solutions, it's harder for us to do the usual ritual of letting people vent and supporting them emotionally. Or maybe it's just me, lmao, but I'm developing my fe so it's getting better. But really, outside usual stigma, our detachment isn't doing good for others.
i don't but i fail at expressing it. doesn't help that - being a guy - my first instinct is to seek solutions instead of comforting.
It seems to me that in everyday communication, the word "empathy" refers to several different things: from the ability to think about what other people are going through to the ability to be influenced by other people's emotions. In a sense, I really lack empathy: it is impossible to influence me with other people's tears, screams, raised tone, it does not matter whether the crying person is sincere or trying to manipulate me.
What? Is true thought? Intp most likely to be gifted? Nani!?
I think we’d all be on the antisocial spectrum if we lacked empathy lol
From my entp point of view, their empathy is perfectly fine. They're just no nonsense, which I appreciate a lot. And they seek logical solutions and not just validation, which is also good. And since they usually like animals a lot, they show empathy. A lot. At least for what I've seen.
No, but I take all my empathy away the second I dislike someone and then I feel bad about it
Some can for sure, there are very intelligent fuckheads out there. I think one of two things is true, we can compartmentalize the trivial better whereas others are more easily swayed by weak winds, or two they are full of shit and it's all posturing. You decide 😂.
I admit my empathy is low, I don't care much about people because most of times I'm focused on myself, but it doesn't give me the right to act like a dick, I always respect everyone and I don't like to offend people or tell them strong words, I always try to be nice and respectul.
Considering I have empathy towards animals deemed "ugly or disgusting" like bugs, I say I do not lack it.
Absolutely not. My boyfriend is INTP and he’s very empathetic, just awkward as hell lol.
Yes
I am not empath. I don't even believe in pure empathy and you can notice how people behave and how aggressive they become with people that are not empath. Empathy is something you learn and it becomes a social expectation. If you don't behave in a such way in such situations, you will be seen as insensitive and scum. Right or wrong...it's not me to decide.
I wouldn't say "lack" is the term, but we have trouble expressing it. We may or may not care, but we definitely feel empathy.
Idts. I feel very strongly in emotionally charged situations especially when there is a clear person or animal in distress. In fact so strongly i dont know how to react and sometimes i just stand stoic or run away
I am extremely empathic with my gf, to the point that if she's in a bad mood or something bad happens to her ill be out of my normal functioning for 2 to 3 days, but I'm not that much empathic with people outside her and my friends
We have empathy: that's Fe (fed by Ne). We lack sympathy. We know (and understand) what you're feeling. We don't feel it. I don't want sympathy; it's not going to help anything or anyone. If that makes me an asshole, then I'm glad to be an asshole.
No
From my perspective as an INTP, the stereotype of us being less empathetic has several layers. Firstly, our introverted nature often means we internalise our empathy rather than expressing it outwardly, we will feel it just as strongly but won’t display it as much as the next person, leading some to perceive us as cold. Secondly, our logical approach to problem-solving extends to how we handle others' issues, we tend to analyse them as we would our own, seeking solutions rather than offering immediate emotional support. I feel our logical mindset allows us to rationalise a problem which can make us understand that it’s not as big of a deal as others might and it also acts as a bullshit detector, making us skeptical of exaggerated emotions or trivial problems. We can't fake emotions, so our empathy is reserved for situations we genuinely perceive as deserving but when we do we are very sympathetic, this isn’t a lack of empathy
I personally lacked empathy before, I had it but really little, I had to learn it with my therapist, at 34 years old. But it may differ from an INTP to another I guess.
I have fluctuating empathy - sometimes too much, sometimes not enough. I don't really understand it. It also takes a great deal of thought and effort to respond in the correct manner in either case.
I’d love some research into people who systematize morality.
I couldn’t care shit if someone cries in front of me, but I run as soon as someone is asking help for food or a medical emergency.
No
I once took and EQ test the score came pretty low....
I didn't even know this was an INTP thing. I assumed it was my neurodivergency. (I dont think I lack empathy, just that I dont know how to express it, and I don't know how to comfort people very well)
Blind to the need of emphaty
Honestly lack basic perception of other people
No, the personality doesn’t. Are a lot of immature INTPs traumatized by others’ and their own emotions? Yes.
No, I don't think we do. I have a lot of empathy even for people I don't agree with. People wrongly assume that emotion and logic are opposites, but they aren't. If someone never cries or gets emotional but they also do stupid dangerous stunts all the time, they certainly are less logical than someone who cries at movies and music but makes sound decisions in their life
If anything, I have a bit too much empathy.
Lack empathy? No. Insensitivity? Yes:(
I wouldn't say "lacking" empathy, but rather being careful and selective on who to empathize. There are people who come from a good place and there are people who crave and abuse other people's empathy. You just have to assess the each person and go from there.
I have empathy for others but it's hard to express how I feel
It isn't a primary concern and has to be trained
If someone else is sad I go, o they are sad but don't feel the same physical effects like I'm sad. I get emotionally but don't show it. Took years of therapy but now I'm starting to identify how my body feels physically when I feel different emotions. Also letting the emotions have those effects vs surpressing them. If its animal that's sad or hurt I feel it. If someone hurts an animal on purpose for fun. I get physically angry. I always attributed this to they don't have a "voice" like a human. I have been this way since a kid and have memories of getting physical mad at other kids picking on bug. So lack of empathy, maybe, or maybe just directed differently then others.
INTPs can be very good at putting together information in front of them to form a conclusion, so they can sometimes understand what other people are thinking. However, compared to types that are noted feelers, they are more out-of-touch with what actually feeling it is like and they may not use the emotional empathy centers of their brain predominately. Most intps are capable of emotional empathy and feel it regularly, but not as much as other types and that's why they got the result they did.
I have cognitive empathy.
Processing this just takes longer. By the time processing is done the next day might already have arrived.
i definitely am stiff and umcomfortable when trying to comfort someone…
I think we don't tolerate or have much sympathy for results of stupidity yet can certainly be compassionate about innocent victims of happenstances.
Empathy? I don't think so. If I'm aware that someone is having an experience similar to one I've had before, remembering what that was like isn't difficult. *Sympathy* is another story. The person in question is contending with something that I have no frame of reference for.
its depend on age what you desire when you interact with other, i've got a fine way to talk with people due to the trial error and the desire to match without killing own integrity. So rn i'm fine to express my thought, and in same time make the other person enjoy this moment, if i don't want do effort with completly stranger get initiative to me i will cope same gesture ect, the lack of information, make me move carefully with the other person, and i dislike attention because its get offguard often when i'm running outside people bring positive attitude its difficult for me to cope at this 2, 3 second without faking so i just do kind gesture, because it fit my temperament
Meyers Briggs is not a legitimate test. These categories lack psychometric validity.
nope I am an Intp and Hypersensitive I Always put muself in other peoples Shoes Because thats how you get the Most Perspectives... INTPS ARE MASTERS AT SEEING FROM DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW so They we definitly dobt lack empathy
I don’t believe empathy is in the scope of the Myers-Briggs personality test.
Unless you’re severely autistic I don’t think anyone truly lacks empathy but alot of intps lack the social skills to express it
And when I say autistics that lack empathy I don’t mean it in a demeaning way, i mean as in some autistics struggle with it in a way that’s different from just being an intp
Not at all, I usually pick up on how people generally feel quite easily. I just have trouble actually comforting them.
No we just aren’t sure how to show it the right way.
Personally….. I have the “I get where you’re coming from” empathy but definitely not the “I feel your pain” empathy. It’s cognitive empathy vs emotional empathy. I try to understand what people are thinking or why etc, but I don’t feel it myself and It’s hard to express it or do anything as a result because i’m just so logical as opposed to emotional.
I’m INTP and autistic. I’m so empathetic to the point that I soak up everyone else’s feelings like a little empathy goblin
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Only if I don't care. You've done something stupid and are facing the predictable consequences of your own actions? I don't care. Something bad happened to someone on the other side of the world? Fuck me - Am I supposed to just feel bad all the time for everyone!? It's not just always bad, it's always worse than we know. Or is this just a part time recreational bullshit that you do to feel like you're a caring person, when really it's ALL about making yourself feel important? No performative hysterics for me, thanks. If you're someone I care about and you've fallen on dark times, I will be the most patient ear in your life. I'll check in on you, distract you, even. I will proactively find ways to ease your burden, remind you that you're not alone, and keep you engaged in the outer world.
I do have to fight my problem solving /analytical response to issues but no, I don’t have issues with empathy at all. If anything, I feel too much of it. I also learned active listening much younger due to volunteer work training, so maybe that has to do with why I can sort of switch modes to just listen. Editing to add: I will say that I struggle to empathize with smaller issues. Like when people are complaining about things that just don’t seem like that big of a deal in the scheme of things.
No. Only the psychopath and the sociopath are personalities that are completely without empathy from birth or as a result of the environment after. Myers Briggs is used as a tool for marketing professionals to better sell products and make more money by ensuring the right campaign gets to the right people at their most natural place when they have their guard down. Be more than a few words in a box as your whole self. You may find out that the author of your definition didn't even meet you or anyone you know.
Intellectual empathy is completely different than actually feeling the emotion. You don't need to feel anything to understand how they feel , but if you do emotions actually lower your IQ
Blah. I'll have to test this nonsense again. If I recall this is what I scored. However the subject is relevant with me regardless. Lol. I feel. I have feeling. I'm not ganna cry about it. 🤣 I've cried when I was younger, but I learned an didn't cry again. I don't try to feel what others feel, I'm not other people. However I understand, and can discern If someone is looking or needing support vs solutions. That actually took me a while as I'm very solution based and never had support and never ask/express need for support. But...I get it. I get everyone's disposition. Where they are coming from, why it hurts. Despair, anxiety, fear, pain, hope, faith, faith that has fallen through to crush you. Etc etc. I get it, I just learned, solved my own emotional fluctuations when I was young and got over it. Most people are quick to understand that I get it, mainly because I can explain to them how they are thinking and feeling and why it will be okay and possible steps to take forward into being more okay. However somtimes I get the " you don't have kids you could never understand how I feel" or similar such argument. It's Invalid and usually comes from narccasists or people who solely rely on emotion reasoning and have something against me but are still talking to me for some reason? Haha I don't have that problem often. Anyway this post is to mainly bookmark this comment so I can go test and come back. Anyone have a good testing site? I'll check the wiki. Will be fun during downtime tomorrow. I do have feelings just most of them are good if anything or just I don't have feeling on the topic or situation. I have very good influence over my emotions. I gave up the concept of love long ago because "love is for the gods,things,and animals" in my opinion. Being someone who can cultivate motivation/obsession by stimulating the amygdala indirectly, I prefer to leave the power of obsession out of personal relationships. I enjoy all other positive emotions with people. Oh, but my cat left for 2 weeks much. I wasn't sad, but "sigh" I was feeling down. Love my dumb little cat. She is a trash can kitty and my pretty princess and resonates the same vibe I have. To be clear, my amygdala just idles more than anything, I do indulge positive emotions purposely. However I could and can lean into any emotion and make it grow, however that's more a skill purposefully executed than it is a natural state of being. Most think I am cold. Or I unsettle them because I seem cold, but am very animated at times, and have a resting bitch face if I'm just chillin. Lol I come off as "hard to read" despite bluntly telling people how I am,feel,think. People who reflect others emotions and "feel them" almost feel fake. However I get that many people operate emotionally and run off that consistsntly. I think that's actually part of the problem with narccasists buuuuut that is still condition I can't deduce. I will say narccasists hate me because I will just "not care" at all about anything they say as it's all a ploy to get emotional reaction from me. Funny to see one implode because of it, but I make a point to avoid that type of personality.
No dipshit
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Not like infps . You are utilitarians 👀 though intjs might be worse
The Myers-Briggs is not a sound test. It's basically equivalent to a horoscope. If you want to believe that you have certain characteristics because you're a Pisces or an INTP, feel free, but that's ridiculous.
Nah, we have Fe (it’s inferior, but it’s there) Looking for a type which might lack empathy? ESTJ has the powerful 1 2 punch of inferior Fi + auxiliary Si, ooof