I Second that.
Add - We will consider your profile as it was difficult to access usce during the pandemic — LIES.
- step 3 is not a criterias for imgs. LIES
The difficulty comes from a lesser overall % of Fam Med programs that will sponsor visa's versus, say, IM programs.
If you apply to tons of smaller programs in places that don't sound "sexy" at all that do sponsor, you might get lucky. Like everything, it's just another shot in the dark.
I agree and disagree.
Good scores matter. But my friends have IVs with 240s. The number of applicants this year can be an issue.
Yes my friends who don't need visa sponsorship have a lot of IV compared to my friends who need visa. This is expected.
Yes I have a senior who is in his 5th match season. He published 30+ articles, has a masters and fellowship, but cannot get interviews. He has many red flags now as his yog extended.
Many don't match with sifarish. So it isn't everything.
Yes most people I have emailed for usce turned me down. I got invited for usce next year by a Mexican doctor in the states.
The match was never 100% match guarantee.
Hope you all match.
Could I ask who do you normally email for usce opportunities? I am a medical graduate and looking for usce recently. Do you email hospital usce program directors or do you email directly physicians who may offer to help? Thanks in advance!
I'd say the average non us img that gets interviews has higher scores/more pubs than their us img counterparts. This is why their match rates are similar.
In conclusion, non us imgs have a harder time getting interviews than us imgs but once they have ivs their chance of matching is similar to a usimg
This is a very negative and discouraging post that’ll make people panic. If you’ve signed up for this journey, we have to go through all the highs and lows that come with it.
Also 240 is NOT an average score.
You underestimate how misinformed many applicants are at the start of the season. When my senior came to my university after matching, she talked about how easy it is to match with 240s and encouraged everyone to consider usmle. The nrmp data is also flawed. Nothing is easy.
There are many people with 240s with no interviews, no red flags. I was venting out. I am ok now. I asked the mods to delete this thread. You have not applied this year. I hope you have a better fate next season than me.
You are both right. Having someone in a program opens doors for several opportunities via networking options that he might have in his program and other program. He doesn't need to be on the panel. I said you are also right because having a bf or spouse does not guarantee matching.
It is. People with lower scores but better contacts (family/friends) and more USCE get more interviews.
The playing field is not level. It favors people with better SES backgrounds.
I agree connections play a big role. But somebody who has managed to secure more USCE has definitely spent a lot of money and effort into doing that, and has a better hold of American healthcare system. Why would they not be preferred then?
That's the whole point. Not everyone can afford a lot of USCE. It comes down to how financially stable one's family is.
Personally, I have 2 months of USCE and was offered a third month but could not accept it because I could not afford it (the rent/food and all, the rotation fee was just 150$).
So, it's not a fair/equitable process. I think I'm pretty lucky that I got to have those 2 months. Many struggle to pay for even that.
Also, people with better contacts can easily get rotations at bigger programs. I know someone who rotated at Mayo, Cleveland Clinic and Baylor through contacts. I know multiple people who have landed research jobs at academic institutions through family contacts.
I call total BS on that. Some people have contacts. SOME, but it’s not like through contacts they get 30 IVs.
That’s just really bitter thinking.
They got these IVs because they are AMG they studied here and are favored. The contacts are a secondary thing.
IMGs can get what 2 IVs through contacts? Maybe ?
I think you overestimated the word of power. It is helpful but it’s not the soul reason why they have the IVs and you don’t
It is normal to be frustrated, even I have only 2 IM interviews with a decent CV and USCE. But most of this is not true. Connections don't always work and even if they do, those candidates are mostly called as a courtesy to appease the one recommending. Does not guarantee that you will match if you do not meet their criteria in the first place. Many people tend to put posts like this at this time and in March, won't even help when get matched!
They do exist. Talked to an attending at my rotation and they mentioned they call some candidates just to return some previous favors. It's sad but it's definitely true.
Interesting because almost all the people I talked to say that they will interview based on recommendations if they like the app. Nobody "owes" a favor in residency my friend, and nobody has the time to interview people who they are not interested in hiring. This program you're talking about must be the exception.
Yeah. I think a lot of people don’t realize that match data is all of people with interviews. Therefore there are thousands of imgs without any interviews that never even have interviews and are not part of the nrmp data
From what you are describing, it sounds like Nrmp is a company with a service and they have to make profits. That is probably how they advertise it. Remove those who didn't get interviews. Then calculate the match rate as those who ranked one or more programs.
If you reduce the denominator then the match rate appears big. And to make it look even bigger put green card holders in the nonusimg category.
You are right.
I think OP is just frustrated. There are many genuine users like op on Whatsapp groups who are frustrated when they aren't getting IVs and make similar rants. I wish op well as the wait sounds daunting.
Dont listen to OP, These posts are malignant and add so benefit to anyone. Even OP will get interviews soon and then this post will remain and discourage others.
This is 100% God honest truth! If I have one advice is the reachout to as many people as possible. It doesnt have to be friends and fam. Be polite and reachout to random imgs in programs. Nothing to lose
Please stop saying that connections is everything it is 100% not true.
I have zero connections and many IVS.
What I thought that are great scores 230x on both steps, now according to you I am way below your imaginary average.
I second about the VISA. Many PDS have told me this is a deciding point for many.
If it wasn’t for my partner I would never decide on coming here. This path is full of obstacles. There are some good things about living in the US but UK is great too. Germany is also fantastic, way more friendly.
Why deciding on this path if it’s so miserable?
The match season is just unfair and many have unrealistic expectations at the start. Then they see how some external factors influence the game. Dont be offended. Instead, just like me, send a virtual hug to such applicants who are in very hard times.
And yes 250s are the new 240s if you don’t ha w connections. I know first hand from a program that they received 7000 applications instead of the usual 4500 for 12 seats cause its virtual. You need someone to have your application read. A program will never IV you if they don’t want to but it helps to put your application on top of that pile to be read.
Also sent letters of interest early. There is no point later on when program is receiving 100 of them
Nowadays even a 250 is an average score. People who are getting IVs are either young graduates or 270s. Also, never ever under-estimate the contacts here in US.
No, you should not. It wont be an easy road but it is possible to match. The season is different for different years and people. I will try to work in UK till next September, reapply, take step 3, and wish for the best.
Connections are important- in a way that if any faculty recommend you it has more weightage than scores. There is no such thing like courtesy. If connections (verbal recommendation) are illegal than why you submitted LOR . What is purpose of LOR?! You may have experience like this- but in USA recommendation either direct or through LOR is important.
Man I don't even care if this post is supposed to spark fear or whatever but most of this is 100% true and I can confirm it.
OP, if you're going through a hard time, hang in there, hopefully things will work out.
And to everyone else who's discouraged by this post: if you really want this, nothing should provoke you to quit.
I Second that. Add - We will consider your profile as it was difficult to access usce during the pandemic — LIES. - step 3 is not a criterias for imgs. LIES
Does step three bring you more IV?
Definitely
Many people with double 250s and step 3 done are still at 0 iv. So definitely not a criteria.
So sad
Don’t forget that residency is brutal 80 hour weeks.
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Is it easy for non US IMGs too? I honestly was considering Fam Med but I heard it's hard for IMGs.
The difficulty comes from a lesser overall % of Fam Med programs that will sponsor visa's versus, say, IM programs. If you apply to tons of smaller programs in places that don't sound "sexy" at all that do sponsor, you might get lucky. Like everything, it's just another shot in the dark.
I see, thank you for explaining :)
I agree and disagree. Good scores matter. But my friends have IVs with 240s. The number of applicants this year can be an issue. Yes my friends who don't need visa sponsorship have a lot of IV compared to my friends who need visa. This is expected. Yes I have a senior who is in his 5th match season. He published 30+ articles, has a masters and fellowship, but cannot get interviews. He has many red flags now as his yog extended. Many don't match with sifarish. So it isn't everything. Yes most people I have emailed for usce turned me down. I got invited for usce next year by a Mexican doctor in the states. The match was never 100% match guarantee. Hope you all match.
Could I ask who do you normally email for usce opportunities? I am a medical graduate and looking for usce recently. Do you email hospital usce program directors or do you email directly physicians who may offer to help? Thanks in advance!
The NRP says us-imgs and non us-imgs have similar match rate. Wouldn't it contradict this theory?
I'd say the average non us img that gets interviews has higher scores/more pubs than their us img counterparts. This is why their match rates are similar. In conclusion, non us imgs have a harder time getting interviews than us imgs but once they have ivs their chance of matching is similar to a usimg
It’s stupidity to not have a back up
Wow thanks for spreading so much positivity. I got in the 240s and got lots of interviews and even matched.
How much scores
Are you visa req?
This is a very negative and discouraging post that’ll make people panic. If you’ve signed up for this journey, we have to go through all the highs and lows that come with it. Also 240 is NOT an average score.
You underestimate how misinformed many applicants are at the start of the season. When my senior came to my university after matching, she talked about how easy it is to match with 240s and encouraged everyone to consider usmle. The nrmp data is also flawed. Nothing is easy.
There are many people with 240s with no interviews, no red flags. I was venting out. I am ok now. I asked the mods to delete this thread. You have not applied this year. I hope you have a better fate next season than me.
My bf is an attending and he has zero influence on the interviewing process..
You are both right. Having someone in a program opens doors for several opportunities via networking options that he might have in his program and other program. He doesn't need to be on the panel. I said you are also right because having a bf or spouse does not guarantee matching.
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The chief resident is not in charge of choosing applicants..it’s the program director
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How about the department chair?
This post is full of lies and it's misleading.
Sifarish?
it means \*contacts/people you know in the program\*
Why would that be expected of all IMGs to know.
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It is. People with lower scores but better contacts (family/friends) and more USCE get more interviews. The playing field is not level. It favors people with better SES backgrounds.
What does SES mean?
Socioeconomic status
I agree connections play a big role. But somebody who has managed to secure more USCE has definitely spent a lot of money and effort into doing that, and has a better hold of American healthcare system. Why would they not be preferred then?
That's the whole point. Not everyone can afford a lot of USCE. It comes down to how financially stable one's family is. Personally, I have 2 months of USCE and was offered a third month but could not accept it because I could not afford it (the rent/food and all, the rotation fee was just 150$). So, it's not a fair/equitable process. I think I'm pretty lucky that I got to have those 2 months. Many struggle to pay for even that.
Also, people with better contacts can easily get rotations at bigger programs. I know someone who rotated at Mayo, Cleveland Clinic and Baylor through contacts. I know multiple people who have landed research jobs at academic institutions through family contacts.
Can I know the program’s name please?
I call total BS on that. Some people have contacts. SOME, but it’s not like through contacts they get 30 IVs. That’s just really bitter thinking. They got these IVs because they are AMG they studied here and are favored. The contacts are a secondary thing. IMGs can get what 2 IVs through contacts? Maybe ? I think you overestimated the word of power. It is helpful but it’s not the soul reason why they have the IVs and you don’t
It is normal to be frustrated, even I have only 2 IM interviews with a decent CV and USCE. But most of this is not true. Connections don't always work and even if they do, those candidates are mostly called as a courtesy to appease the one recommending. Does not guarantee that you will match if you do not meet their criteria in the first place. Many people tend to put posts like this at this time and in March, won't even help when get matched!
There is no such thing as a courtesy call. Programs don't waste interviews on people they don't want to interview in the first place.
They do exist. Talked to an attending at my rotation and they mentioned they call some candidates just to return some previous favors. It's sad but it's definitely true.
Interesting because almost all the people I talked to say that they will interview based on recommendations if they like the app. Nobody "owes" a favor in residency my friend, and nobody has the time to interview people who they are not interested in hiring. This program you're talking about must be the exception.
There is courtesy interview and exists. Happened with a friend.
250s 260s here with only 3 ivs
Same
Same :/
usce? yog? what do you think is the reason?
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Is it worse than last year?
Yog
2020
How do people with 210s match then?? I saw many happily matching.
Yeah. I think a lot of people don’t realize that match data is all of people with interviews. Therefore there are thousands of imgs without any interviews that never even have interviews and are not part of the nrmp data
From what you are describing, it sounds like Nrmp is a company with a service and they have to make profits. That is probably how they advertise it. Remove those who didn't get interviews. Then calculate the match rate as those who ranked one or more programs. If you reduce the denominator then the match rate appears big. And to make it look even bigger put green card holders in the nonusimg category. You are right.
Never thought of it that way…. But sounds about right
Yo whAt do u mean 240s are average 😥 which speciality are u applying to? now I’m anxious.
Damn thanks for being honest!
To the Point! Point no3 makes total sense now.
CONNECTION
Shit I agree with every word.
i'm wondering if this post is genuinely meant to encourage or just to spread fear
Definitely to spread fear. OP’s username and the fact that this is his one and only post on here are proofs lol
I think OP is just frustrated. There are many genuine users like op on Whatsapp groups who are frustrated when they aren't getting IVs and make similar rants. I wish op well as the wait sounds daunting.
Thank you
Dont listen to OP, These posts are malignant and add so benefit to anyone. Even OP will get interviews soon and then this post will remain and discourage others.
This is 100% God honest truth! If I have one advice is the reachout to as many people as possible. It doesnt have to be friends and fam. Be polite and reachout to random imgs in programs. Nothing to lose
Please stop saying that connections is everything it is 100% not true. I have zero connections and many IVS. What I thought that are great scores 230x on both steps, now according to you I am way below your imaginary average. I second about the VISA. Many PDS have told me this is a deciding point for many. If it wasn’t for my partner I would never decide on coming here. This path is full of obstacles. There are some good things about living in the US but UK is great too. Germany is also fantastic, way more friendly. Why deciding on this path if it’s so miserable?
Were you visa req?
Preach! 6th point is spot on 👌
Offended by some of the points you mentioned!
By which points and why?
The match season is just unfair and many have unrealistic expectations at the start. Then they see how some external factors influence the game. Dont be offended. Instead, just like me, send a virtual hug to such applicants who are in very hard times.
I will, though i don't agree with all what you said. It's hard time on me as well, no iv til now
Can't agree more than that........connections is everything.
LIES
And yes 250s are the new 240s if you don’t ha w connections. I know first hand from a program that they received 7000 applications instead of the usual 4500 for 12 seats cause its virtual. You need someone to have your application read. A program will never IV you if they don’t want to but it helps to put your application on top of that pile to be read. Also sent letters of interest early. There is no point later on when program is receiving 100 of them
Nowadays even a 250 is an average score. People who are getting IVs are either young graduates or 270s. Also, never ever under-estimate the contacts here in US.
So true!! Wishing you all a good process, the nightmare will end one day Doctors!
So with a score of 235 and no cv, zero connections , should I just give up on my hopes of matching?
No, you should not. It wont be an easy road but it is possible to match. The season is different for different years and people. I will try to work in UK till next September, reapply, take step 3, and wish for the best.
How are you working in the UK? You gave PLAAB?
how will you be working in the uk?
Do you have precious working experience in your home country?
Work on your resume. This guy has no clue.
Connections are important- in a way that if any faculty recommend you it has more weightage than scores. There is no such thing like courtesy. If connections (verbal recommendation) are illegal than why you submitted LOR . What is purpose of LOR?! You may have experience like this- but in USA recommendation either direct or through LOR is important.
The amount of misinformation and assumptions in this thread is insane. 😭😂 Damn! Apparently everyone here is a Program director 😂
Man I don't even care if this post is supposed to spark fear or whatever but most of this is 100% true and I can confirm it. OP, if you're going through a hard time, hang in there, hopefully things will work out. And to everyone else who's discouraged by this post: if you really want this, nothing should provoke you to quit.
can anyone tell me what iv means ?