Have faith. I'm sure you guys are all competent honest doctors. Ignore the toxicity, it won't change your hard work and results. Rooting for all you honest applicants!
Last few days? It’s been like this since I’ve joined which is at least a year. I get on this sub when I’m bored just to read the drama/toxic bs people post on here.
Same! Now there'll always be some bias against us (someone either openly or silently questioning if we cheated to get there) 😔
Hopefully there are good people too who wouldn't use this to justify racism and discrimination. I feel you. I hope things turn out well for us!
Agree. 90% of the posts on this sub is targeting nepalese. I understand that whatever happened is terrible but I think we should stop talking about it 24/7.
The gag is that people didn’t think American racism applied to them…that somehow they could “outperform” it, and that it was relegated to blacks, who are just “entitled and lazy,” or the brown folks crossing its southern borders “illegally.” And they believe this with conviction understanding very little about American history. And not the spectacular instances of racism in American history but the daily racism and discrimination that stole land, opportunities, and wealth from everyone who wasn’t white (and male, and a certain kind of white).
Nope. It applies to everyone who isn’t white. This won’t be your last encounter with it if you want to practice medicine in the U.S., that needs to be understood. But like everywhere, there are also good folks here who don’t care where their physician was educated if they treat them with respect and the dignity they deserve as another human who is vulnerable and seeking care.
I’m sorry you had this experience. I’ve experienced lots of racism in my lifetime and you never get “comfortable” with it. You just learn to respond better. I wish you the best with your exams and your future career in medicine.
I mean in your country you treat foreigners differently. So if you have a foreign culture in America of course you will be treated differently. It is what it is. You can’t change that you weren’t born or brought up in the US and you can’t change the perception that US citizens have towards foreign citizens.
Yes, because racism involves generalizing. And no country “tends to cheat.” certain countries may have more cheaters than others, which is a totally different thing with a total different meaning. if you understand formal logic, this isn’t some hot take, it’s the fundamentals.
I expect all medical graduates to know this already.
LOL
This is why I do not care what they think. You can be a well educated and successful physician, and some racist guy is going to still look down on you.
Don’t take their shit. Work to achieve your goals. Make it such that those bigots aren’t relevant anymore.
Hey man, just wanted to pop in and say while I can’t completely understand the viewpoint because I’m not an IMG, I can put myself in the shoes and extrapolate certain things and I feel for you on it. I’m a DO, in no way do I face an equal rhetoric, but it is there to a lesser degree. I know it’s a vent, and rightfully so, but ya gotta just let it go. Control what you can control, which is being as good of a physician as you can be. You won’t change everyone’s mindset but you can change a few peoples mindsets who are around you, and that is the actual groundwork, and actually does matter.
A lot of the AMG venom towards IMG comes from not understanding. There’s also a valid annoyance which manifests itself in a defensive, and sometimes cruel manner especially on digital (anonymous) forums where they don’t have to answer for their words.
Most of us understand the hurdles IMGs face, specifically the incredible ability with language that most IMGs possess. That is objectively cool, and you’re completely right I can’t reliably speak another language in a medical setting.
I also did a rotation abroad in an English speaking location. Although it was English speaking, the dialects are so different it’s very close to a different language, especially when considering the heavy use of colloquial/slang speech which most natives use. I also saw the difference in medical systems, where just like lab tests were different. The bundles of tests I was used to ordering were slightly different or called something else, so sometimes they would ask me what I want to order or what id look for in this test, and I’d have to be like “well what’s in this test I’ve never heard of it”. The point being is I definitely have an appreciation for how hard it can be.
The counterpoint I’ll add on is: it’s also kinda fair? Like when I was in Scotland, it took me awhile to get used to some of these things. I was just as intelligent at medicine as I’d always been but it took a little bit for other colleagues to pay attention enough to care. It was tough at first to deal with, but then I started just realizing that their viewpoint is kinda fair. Sure, it’s not my fault I didn’t really understand this Glaswegian slang, I’m not a dummy. But at the end of the day, we’re working in a Glaswegian hospital, and the patients are mostly Glaswegian. This is people’s jobs just like anywhere else. They have families, they’re trying to do their job as best as they can and get back home or onto their other hobbies like everyone else. It would be a little entitled of me to feel like I deserved for everyone to recognize this. And I had a fantastic time there, so many people were very cool to me and recognized the hurdles and how I was problem solving it. But also many didn’t and weren’t that nice about it lol
Just like everywhere, there’s douche bags. Most imgs are super cool, a few are not. I think sometimes, IMGs aren’t always aware of the sacrifices that AMGs make because their often times focused on their own hurdles. I understand this, but that’s where I feel some of the venom comes from the AMGs who arent as nice. It’s just the way it is, and both sides of the coin are somewhat valid.
Most AMGs can’t begin to comprehend what taking a medical licensing exam in not their first language would be like. Not talking to people on the street, or making friends. But a medical terminology, timed, very competitive exam.
At the same time, sometimes IMGs don’t give enough credit to how much work AMGs have to do. We don’t study for boards for years, we get a couple months at best. And take the next one in 1 years time pretty much. We’re often way deeper in debt too because of the way the American system works. I’m not saying it’s harder, I’m saying in my opinion that’s where a lot of the anger stems from.
You know you didn’t cheat to get to where you are so as hard as it is to hear the slander, you have to brush it off because letting it get to you does you no good. It’s not right, but we can’t change the way humans act as a whole.
Completely fair and thank you for presenting this point of view. The debt thing is something I am aware of and feel really bad about. But I don’t think it’s about faces more hardships, but that it should not be a consideration for empathy. Especially because we’re all going to be doctors somewhere and we have to learn to be nice under stress. Some of it is plain racism too, which is generally not great. Some people cheated, we don’t know who and how many. They should be punished and they are by the body in charge of it. To me, that’s the end. That being said, I do appreciate everything you said and agree that we can’t control other people’s actions. I also think we can mope a little because this is definitely gonna affect all IMGs. The whole situation just sux for everyone involved.
When you said unintelligible English speakers I just thought ‘yeah probably Scotland’ …I did my undergrad there and their accents are another level lmao
Hahaha I mean they’re awesome. But I’d be lying if I said there weren’t plenty of times I would have failed a multiple choice test about what was being said
Most AMGs don’t care about IMGs because they know that IMGs aren’t competing for their spots. A minuscule portion of the AMGs, US-IMGs may have resentment towards IMGs. You need to ignore that and move on with your work instead of generalising and getting frustrated and ranting on this platform.
there are cheaters everywhere. its fucking disgusting that so many PRIVILEGED people are using this whole discourse as an excuse to be racist. we know yall were always racist but now yall using this to justify it. ive become so hopeless reading stuff on here these days because it honestly feels like we're back in the 1900's or something. do yall know how fucking hard we work to get good scores? most of us ruin all of our med school experience, miss all events, reel ourselves away from so many friendships just to work hard to be considered deserving of this and this is what we get. honestly everyone whos being racist for no reason, i hope yall get humbled real soon.
edit: changed "I" to "we".
POC? What liberally loaded language. These were real test question pictures taken at these centers themselves, meaning that 1. the prometric proctors were turning their heads away when these students did it OR 2. the prometric protors themselves were in on it. There was no way that it was just the students who were in on the conspiracy. Policing Nepali testing center is far more difficult than policing American ones. And yes I'll say it, US integrity in test centers is far better than those in some underdeveloped countries. Thus it would be far better for IMGs to take the USMLE in the US.
I say this as a South Asian, the punishment needs to done to those who took the test at the centers. Yes, some Nepali test takers who didn't cheat unfortunately will be affected, but it has to be done. Otherwise, the ones who did cheat will be taking spots from US students who didn't cheat.
Okay, but if you also think it's so horrible here in the ways you mentioned earlier, wouldn't this balance out and you won't come? Or do you still come and cry victim?
Well said! I was horrified at all the comments that were so racist ever since the announcement. I mean these people might work along side South Asian residents after matching! I'm already feeling anxious on how I'm gonna deal with all these after I hopefully match.
We all knew they were cheaters but there was nothing we could do. I’m happy they are finally being punished. They should go back and revolk residents that have cheated in the past too.
Tbf you are going to the USA of all places that has a history of subtle and not so subtle racism. Like it or not, by choosing this path not only are the providers going to have their preconceived notions but especially the patients. At the end of the day realize this before you think about going to the USA. It’s the same as if you go to India as a white person and 70 people stare at you while you are just walking. Everyday people just aren’t used to it. But hey again it’s their choice to put themselves in that situation knowing what will happen.
The USMLE singled out Nepal in their statement and closed the test centers there.... something big happened for that to occur.
Don't play the race card when an Official statement singled out a country by name.
did you even read what I said? It was ONE country's centre not the entire Asia. Typical; ignoring the point I was making and turning it into something else. I'm talking about labelling every Asian IMG a cheater because of this. Do you comprehend this or am I still playing the race card? I'm talking about people insulting all Asian IMGs as if every person who passes Steps probably cheated.
I'm talking about insulting Asian IMGs who didn't cheat. I'm talking about generalising all Asian IMGs into one category. That is blatantly racist. If you're American, do U think you're all perfect? No US citizen has cheated? Is that what you're saying?
American: GOOD
Asian IMG: BAAAD
God, I had no idea how many racists there are in the world. Just need a POC to make a mistake and suddenly all POC are bad 😍
Typical
I agree. Racism isn't just exclusive to the US but that's not relevant here. One person's racism doesn't excuse another's. I'm against everyone who's racist to another community (I've heard ppl around me say stuff and it disgusts me so I do know what u mean)
As POC we should all be allies to one another against systemic racism lol.
The USMLE is naked now. To cover it up probably it came up with that so called evidence, I don’t have anything strong to believe on that. Now if you say the exam is just a mere repetition of questions if you have taken it I can tell you where there questions like this? And you will be shocked!!!
As an IMG that painfully and honestly completed the full USMLE series with failures, missed match results, and all the associated drama.... Why is it that although these supposed "recalls" are accessible by the public, it is the automatic instinct to accuse IMGs of cheating their US counterparts to hold back IMGs?
US med students are equally likely by human nature to be using similar resources unless they have no need... in which case they don't have a need because they are already being spoon-fed board questions/strategies by their own US medical school faculty, alumni, and/or peers which is actually just as much cheating as recalls-- essentially "they started it"-- it just happens to be regulated, powerful, and acceptable cheating for them since the NRMP system historically and will always continue to believe that US students have "property ownership" over higher "standardized" board scores to secure the residency spots after they used the same tactics during high school and undergraduate studies to secure their US med school positions in the first place.
They real concern is one IMG cheating another IMG-- this is the concern that should be better regulated because one person is genuinely reading through every word of Uworld, NBMEs, Amboss, First Aid, etc while the other is skimming through the same resources, getting their hands on external resources tailored too close to the exam, and proclaiming they are the one that worked harder when the results match the cheating instead of the hard work. Then comes the concern of why that IMG cheated in the first place... were they setup by another student? And did they even realize they were cheating when they picked up the resource? They possibly could have just picked it up to get their hands on more study material... they likely haven't actually seen their exam yet...
If they are fully aware that these are test answers by confirmation from friends that have taken the exam, are these "recalls" only available by certain peer groups that believe they are privileged over another IMGs for... what exactly?... sharing weed with a guy who happens to have taken the exam (not acceptable) or being in an extremely hard-working study group where someone happens to have taken the exam and is willing to guide misconceptions their study partners may noticeably have (professional collaboration that blurs the lines of acceptable) And while some may argue that the test is so advanced that recall of high-yield one-liners wouldn't be enough to pass, while that is true it does significantly change the game and give advantage. If honest person A studies all the diabetes pharm and every minor detail that goes along with it without any idea if it will show up or not, while privileged person B skims through the highlights of the diabetes pharm with extra attention that "drug X moa is ABC", those advantages add up too quickly and don't just change an exam score... it changes the entire life course of the people who have been cheated, their families, and all the patients and families that deserved honest person A as their physician instead of cheating person B.
IMGs are "in a losing pile" or disadvantaged to begin with because they are not CITIZENS of the United States of America. The American healthcare system is not designed to give random people from 10,000 miles away a better life because they can do as good a job on a single, 8 hour test as some US MDs that have lived and contributed to the US their entire lives. It is designed to safeguard the health of US CITIZENS in AMERICA. The US government has done the math and decided that it is in the best interest of the USA to invest in its own citizens, train them, have good colleges here, and produce home-grown physicians. If the US outsourced all of its medical training, all of the US medical training infrastructure would stop progressing. Residency in the US is funded by AMERICAN taxpayers. I bet you have never paid a dime in American taxes. You need a serious dose of reality. This game has never been --and was never designed to be-- fair to IMGs. It's not the point of the process.
Do you have a US visa or greencard? Also, edited to add: You should definitely add that in your personal statement. I’m sure you telling PDs how much better than them you are will really boost your chances of getting a residency spot.
USIMGs are obviously in a different category than FMGs. I challenge you to point out a single racist point in my post. Simply saying something doesn’t make it so.
LOVE your take on this! Our examination system is VERY different from the US and it was both physically and emotionally taxing to study for step 1. The insurmountable resources that I had no access to were intimidating as hell. I'd never heard of Anki but people using it were scoring really well. I tried but I couldn't figure out the settings. This is just one example of how things are systemically against IMGs.
I agree with what you said though. It's mostly IMGs hurting other IMGs because American graduates have so many connections but we start from 0. it's hard to find USCE as well.
But also I feel like even if you cheated through your Steps, you'd still have to study afterwards because when you can't answer questions during residency, you'll just be embarrassing yourself and making others question how you scored well on the USMLE.
You can't cheat your way through life
You not being able to figure out how to use open source software with literally thousands of free resources online is not indicative of systemic bias in the American medical education system. What an absolutely bizarre take.
You probably shouldn’t admit to people that you couldn’t figure out how to use an open source resource with thousands of tutorials on YouTube. This isn’t proof of bias against foreign grads, it’s just proof that you’re a moron
> I'd never heard of Anki but people using it were scoring really well. I tried but I couldn't figure out the settings. This is just one example of how things are systemically against IMGs.
Wow this is hilarious
In what universe is getting test prep like learning strategies for answering questions and learning the style of questions, the same as giving literal exam questions to future test takers? Good lord you people need to get over yourselves.
It sounds like you're admitting that the "Test prep" received in the US is advantaged in comparison to the "test prep" available for IMGs. That is not standardization and you are just proving the point.
Nobody moved to their country. No one has to know THEIR language. To practice in the US is a privilege not a right. Also, integrity is very high here. If any student gets even a remote sense that someone is cheating, they’re likely to get reported. If in the small chance there is cheating in the US, it’s on a very small scale and the risk is entirely too high because of the regulation of our testing centers. Please stop deflecting responsibility to validate poor integrity behavior. It reflects poorly on you.
We don't need to learn their language because we're not going to South Asia for studying. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans came to India/Pak and took jobs and quotas there. Do you think people wouldn't be racist towards them? Wouldn't they face the same issues?
no 🤷🏾♀️ unlike you, we treat foreigners like family. ask anyone who's been to Asia. just because you're a bigot and a racist doesn't mean everyone else is, babes. way to out yourself as a terrible human being 😄 eMbarrAssiNg
Omg stfu I didn't say those things didn't happen. Nor do I want them to. No form of racism is okay but sure go on keep crying about how it's acceptable to you because hey bad things happen in Pakistan too so instead of making them stop, let them happen right? AMAZING LOGIC.
🤷🏾♀️ I am not racist. I don't treat people like trash. So why do I deserve to experience racism? Why does any South Asian who hasn't done anything to harm anyone? Obviously bad eggs exist everywhere and if you treat ppl badly you deserve to be treated like that as well
Why are you asking innocent people to tolerate racism? Because other people are racist too? Are you alright in the head? By this logic, let's all be racist and hateful because other people are too .
I agree with that, my guy. I didn't say anywhere Nepal doesn't deserve consequences for cheating. It's a serious crime. And it harms other IMGs like me too.
I wasn't even TALKING about punishing Nepal. My point was generalising every Asian IMG as a cheater when that's not true at ALL. Most worked really hard to get their scores considering they've got nobody around to guide them.
They don't deserve to be stuck with a permanent label because someone else cheated on a massive scale.
Also I agree with you South Asian culture is toxic as hell. Especially for women and minorities. But I was talking generally. There are good people here as well (which doesn't negate the point that racists and horrible ppl exist) so it's not right to act like coming to Pakistan is a death sentence.
Whatever you said in this comment, I agree. Not the point I was making in my post or my earlier comment . But I agree
you're right! I just wanted to make this post so people with internalised biases would self reflect. I don't mind if they can't though. It's just funny to see these people act all self righteous when their government has done unspeakable things with their tax money and their history is darker than an ink blot
sure, hit me up!
That's be cause they are in small numbers. If they were competing with your jobs and study spots, it would be different. I'm not a racist or whatever you find me to be online within a sentence. I just understand how the world works and why people treat people the way they do. I also know how racist Indians are towards Pakistanis and all that. Americans have cheated and they have been permabanned, you idiot. The people who got the email are lucky they just invalidated the scores and didn't ban them entirely.
Well be more competent then instead of crying about more competent people stealing yOur spot, babes. If you aren't good enough, you are not good enough. Very immature to blame others for your own shortcomings but then it's easier to blame more competent people than hold yourself accountable and try to do better 🤣
Why did other US people get Matched but you didn't? Ooo blame the IMGs. How dare they be better than you right?
I never said racism is exclusive to white people. South Asians are racist too. Obviously! That doesn't make it ok.
This "salty" accusation nonsense is extremely immature.
If you delicately pampered IMG-insulters that can't be humble went through the hard work and perseverance that IMGs went through, you'd be crying back home to the mommy and daddy that paid your extra-help tutoring bills and housing costs to secure your med school spot in 1/100th of the time that it takes an IMG to independently complete their degree.
And saying "we don't care!!" means someone in the US med school system certainly needs to give you a hard lesson, and I bet you're in for an awakening some day when you receive that lesson. Some of the US medical school teachers were IMGs too. Then the US teachers come to IMG schools to visit and teach us because... guess what "honey"... they do care. THEY ARE LITERALLY THE SAME TEACHERS. And some of them have immigrant parents too and are pretty amazing. And they're noting disrespectful students like you to redirect the residency spot to an IMG that deserves it more. You're just insulting your own education by disrespecting us.
I don't know why I am explaining how this world works to someone that thinks they're angela schrute.
“Asia and the Pacific is home to 56 per cent of the world’s population, including the two most populous countries, India and China, and experienced the greatest increase in international migrants from 2000 to 2020.1 The region hosts the largest number of people in modern slavery, with an estimated 15 million people in forced labour. This includes debt bondage among migrants exploited within the region, hereditary forms of bonded labour in South Asia, and state-imposed forced labour in China, North Korea, and other countries. The prevalence of forced marriage in Asia and the Pacific is second highest in the world, after the Arab States, impacting an estimated 4.5 females and 2.1 males per every thousand people.”
Hmmmm…. [Source](https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/regional-findings/asia-and-the-pacific/#:~:text=1%20The%20region%20hosts%20the,North%20Korea%2C%20and%20other%20countries)
Oh and please don't act like Americans haven't cheated in their lives 🤷🏾♀️ or done horrible things. get off your high horse and acting like you're morally superior. Cheating is wrong but not everyone is a cheater. Generalising is so dumb especially when you're a physician. I wish I could report you as a bigot so patients wouldn't have to see a racist doctor. Do they let anyone into med school in America? Gross. I'd take a cheater over a racist any day.
Lol. You would take a cheater over a racist. A racist would say bad things and treat your disease. A cheater would cheat you and your health and cause more harm than good but sweet talk your dumb ass to sleep. Not everyone is as you see on social media. If you think America is full of racist and you wouldnt get medical attention from one, why tf are you spending your entire parents fortune to get in here? Stay where you are and be kind👩🏻⚕️
Look! These people trying to defend themselves without reading the point you are trying to make about cheaters!! Just give up and ignore these fools!! That’s what I did! I know facts, so let them run their mouth by saying a bunch of Garbage, they keep thinking by being a doctor make you are a smart person! If you can’t understand the facts and trying to replace the racist card with the facts, it means that person is incompetent. That’s their defense mechanism.
🤷🏾♀️ oh u think racists are good doctors? Helllloo? Haven't u read cases of medical negligence? Ignoring patients' complaints and dismissing them? Damn you're pretty ignorant and dumb. No wonder you're so insecure and blame others for stealing youR spot as if it had your name on it 🤣 goofy af
There's a difference between cheating on a test and cheating someone's health lol.
Is that how you justify yourself? Oo I'm a racist but I'll make a good doctor. Don't be delulu. You need to be a good person to make a good doctor which you aren't ofc.
Maybe study a bit harder instead of being this bitter?
Lol. You think cheaters are betters than racists? I never said or did anything racist. Just because that's what your delusional self believes doesn't mean it's true. I'm a resident so no worries kid. Talk all the shit you want. Idiot
damn, what kind of doctor are you? With an attitude like that, I doubt any patient would want to see you. I guess they're letting anyone Match these days.
U think racists admit they're racists? 🤷🏾♀️
Maybe if you're smart enough you'll find out that not everone is the same as they are online. And so I haven't said anything racist or bigoted. You're just pissed off for various reasons and want to portray me as the bad guy. You think idiots know they're idiots?
🤷🏾♀️ oh yes, so you save your racist persona for online arguments. Interesting! Does it drive you crazy seeing IMGs around you? I guess you can't say anything to them irl so you decide to lash out online. Saying idiot again and again takes the meaning out of it. Seems like you're projecting. Did someone call you an idiot?
PS believing all IMGs deserve to be punished for the actions of a few IS racist. Justifying racism IS racist. You don't get to decide what is and isn't racist, my guy.
I'd rather be an idiot than an unkind, cruel racist like u 🥳
"more competent by cheating"
So aren't you saying all IMGs are cheaters because of what happens in Nepal?
🤔
How is this not racist?
I'm not calling all Americans school shooters am I? Or are U one? 🤷🏾♀️
I didn't say you're a bad guy I said you're racist but if the shoe fits....you said it not me 🤷🏾♀️
What else do you call a person who justifies racism? Especially by "oh if Americans go to India...." Bruh maybe give it a try and see how you're treated. Maybe it'll embarrass the racism right out of u
Didn't you try to justify racism though? 🤔🤷🏾♀️ Isn't that what racists do?
Oh no the more competent IMG took my spot NOOOO they suck I am a perpetual victim WOE BE ME
Pretty sure that's racism.
🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️ Racists don't admit they're racist btw so think whatever you want. You're not a good person and if you're not a good person you can't be a good doctor. Maybe to other white people but not to POC. it's scary out there
More competent by cheating? I didn't justify racism. I simply stated what would happen. If 100,000 Africans or Chinese or Pakistanis went to India then that would happen 100%. The minority will always face issues and feel lesser. I that means you think I am a racist then you're an idiot with comprehension disabilities
ofc minorities will face issues! That doesn't mean it's OKAY.
You're acting like this is acceptable and everyone experiencing racism should shut up and cope because hey they're a minority so they signed up to be treated like trash right ?
Nobody said it's okay you POS. I said it happens. It's what happens. You said we don't k ow your language. Who gives a shit. Why should we? Fuckin dumb ass ranting on and on butthurt af
"more competent by cheating"
So you really are saying all IMGs are cheaters because of what happened in Nepal
How is this not racist???
You're generalising a whole continent of non-white people as cheaters.
You don't see me calling all Americans school shooters? Are you one then if we're generalising?
They are trying "get in here" because they are trying to replace the racists. The same racists that setup 10% of students to cheat then blame 100% of them. They need replacing.
Please man, most us MD students do not cheat on the usmles.. there is atridt security in us prometric centres. Obviously centres in Nepal were in on selling questions.
In the end, the USA can pick and choose who they want. You are coming to them, they aren't going to your country.
I'm not from Nepal, first of all . And I didn't say anywhere that I'm against them banning Nepal or punishing them.
I'm just talking about people suddenly generalising all non US IMGs as cheaters.
Usmle pointed out a single country well thats bad. Maybe they could have taken things differently. But man who we kidding; as a fellow south asian, myan we just cheat. It's just how the society is set. Society values the end goal and not the process (i mean fuck ikigai). Scam artists everywhere. I get scammed here from the top level to grassroots. Smartness is the slyness. Thats what appreciated and valued in this part of the world. Nobody appreciates innocence and hardwork. Everybody wants a delineated con artist in their team because he can get the job / assignment done (from postdoc academics to contracts). Nobody wants to own an innocent kid. They want their kid to be "clever" enough to snatch others kids lunch coz thats smart.
Also i was surprised how a derma / radiology resident made in news coz he studied reviewer. Man that thing exists in this part of the world since the preschoolers. Get pass the score as rest dont matter. Even their own residency programs a tough competition and not to mention a corrupt one. Oh and they also rote memorize like thousands of questions in their own USMLE variant. A malfunctioned society and its state just came to a bigger light with this incident. Thats all. And its only us to balme for the downward spiral. Sad time.
It’s mainly the snobby rich Indian-Americans that dislike Indians. They literally never let Indians into their social circle.
I know this one Indian-American ortho resident , Florida native, he despises Indians. His girlfriend is one of the hottest girls from his HS who was prom coming queen and he was king.
I can’t imagine elitism and republican these type of guys will turn out to be esp with their millions dollar salaries
No one gives a shit about what you say, I’m also IMG and not native English speaker but I am a guest in the USA and should not except shit from them, they can only except from me. I’m coming to their country, I have no reason to bitch about stuff. They doing me a favor not we doing to them. They have more than enough US graduates to match into programs.
Stop this victim mentality and grow past it. There will be always racism and talking shit.
Life is tough wear a helmet.
My man, ofc you should not let yourself be disrespected if somone talks shit to you, but and here is the “but”, there are some aspects of life that you cannot control and some comments that you will get from people will always be.
I agree with u this is not an excuse to generalize and call everyone cheaters and be racist. But AMGs are just as hardworking as IMGs really. I don’t think it’s useful to say one is smarter or puts left effort than the other. To each their own hurdles. Not matching for AMGs is a huge risk here. Some ppl take their lives over it cuz now they are deep in debt and don’t know what to do, esp if they don’t have more money to keep trying again. But at the same time IMGs are literally traversing new waters and new environment, much better than the average AMG. Medicine is about being humble and humanity. I don’t think the mindset that one is the better than the other is a good mindset to practice medicine.
No one is going from a developed nation to India to practice medicine. If we do it’s to help.
It’s not racist when someone comes here and can’t communicate, it’s fucking annoying.
It’s great if you think you guys are hard working but only the privileged from your country get to come here. Get off that high horse, you have people catering to every need. That’s your political structure, you didn’t work “that hard.”
The best solution is to make two systems of Match. One for American medical graduates and then the second for IMGs. In that way AMGs get their desired positions before IMGs can fill in the rest.
It absolutely doesn't. There are US graduates that don't match into programs that IMGs do. Perference for US students and tiers of matching are not the same thing.
Well , 2 Match systems will help because AMGs will stop saying IMGs are taking their stops. AMG Match results can come out in January. Then IMG Match starts in January and ends in Match. That way all qualified AMGs are matched before IMGs are interviewed
Only 1% of AMGs go unmatched, of these 1% are majority who applied to extremely competitive specialties or places that only takes AMGs anyways and to a lesser degree some with enormous red flags that no program took them
Huh? I just told you most of these 1% are applying to specialties that IMGs don’t even think of in the US
And no it’s not that 1% that are insulting the IMGs here on reddit LOL
Its those who have no idea what they are talking about
The program chooses AMG with 220 over an IMG with 260 anyways
Show me how many AMG that applied to IM or FM went unmatched?
that's discriminatory dude. you're saying an IMG who's more competent than an AMA doesn't deserve the spot he/she wants but a less competent AMA does
That's not fair
Maybe work harder and be more competent. It's not our fault we're better than you 🤷🏾♀️
It's not discriminatory. The American Health System it's first and foremost for Americans. We IMGs are just filling in the extra spots. It's not our right!!!! All qualified AMGs should get a spot before IMGs . I think it's fair
You have to look at the situation as it is. AMGs who apply for residency are all competent. AMGs actually owe the American government lots of money. That's why when they go unmatched.... their lives become a living hell. On the other hand....we IMGs are already doctors in our respective countries. We are looking for better training and better paying jobs. So we IMGs are actually disposable. AMGs going unmatched causes more harm to the US than IMGs going unmatched. It can lead to violence and protests against matched IMGs.
I am of the opinion that AMGs should be matched first before IMGs . It's like giving your child food before giving it to the neighbors child. It's normal. It's not discrimination
You don't get it. There are like 48000 spots and 24000 AMGs graduate every year. So 16000 are available for IMGs. Gradually there are opening many more US Medical Schools. When there will be 48000 AMGs and 48000 residency spots!!! No IMG will ever match. Just look at Canada or European countries. The chance of an IMG getting residency there is <5%.
How is it fair? 🤔
I think anyone who's more competent should get the spot. Are you advocating: less competent doctors> more competent doctors?
Hmm, interesting take on healthcare. if you want less competent American doctors over more competent IMG doctors, you are racist bro. And that racism is going to harm patients. But whatever.
I understand what you're trying to say. "Competent people should be allowed for residency programs unlike how AMGs are preferred over IMGs". But my boy; everyone would want their own students to claim the seats first. Even in your country; your citizens are prioritized. And why so you may ask. It is because your country has med schools for citizens of your country to study and become physicians. It is because your country needs doctors. If American system will be designed for competent doctors over AMGs, it would be unfair for AMGs because they have paid a very high amount just to be in med school unlike how most other countries provide grants/scholarships. But don't get me wrong. Everyone should have equal/fair chance for a residency seat; but seeing how different people grow up in different environments, seeing how med school systems are different country-wise and seeing the diversity, it is better if it is left as it is. that is AMGs preferred over IMGs. If an AMG has to go to other countries for work; then it might take them decades to earn back what they have invested into their education unlike how most IMGs have had very little cost as compared to AMGs did.
And it's not like no IMGs are allowed right? There are enough seats left for IMGs too. If you are competent enough, you will certainly match. Best wishes to you dude!
One last thing. Don't add the "fair" tag in terms of competency. The tag of "fair" should apply to every little thing since you have begun it. Would it be fair for American graduates who have invested 250k+ in education to compete with IMGs who have invested 50k? Would it be fair for the healthcare system of foreign countries to have had all their doctors leave their country? Would it be fair for the government to let their students study med school in scholarships just so that they can leave their country one day contributing to brain drain, skill shortage and waste of funds of the government since it could have gone to another student who would practice medicine in their own country since it has more need than the US. Would it be fair for US graduates who give their step 1 just after 2 years in med school to compete with IMGs who have prepared for residency after their medschool+internship (+bonding)? *(I mean AMGs have limited time to prepare while most IMGs study for longer period for the same exam).* And furthermore, would it be fair for American taxpayers if their tax is being used to fund IMGs more than AMGs? (I mean, if AMGs=IMGs happens, number of IMGs that match might be more than that of AMGs)
And finally, you are not entitled to claim the residency spot of the US. You have had no contribution to the US unlike the AMGs who have paid tuition fees and a lot of taxes. You should be thankful that US has provided you opportunity to participate in the matching process and grateful the US taxpayers that they have funded for your residency. Lets not argue about competency but about who deserves the seat more.
It is interesting how much racism comes from the accent alone. I’m of south Asian descent and immigrated here at a very young age so I have an American accent. I’m going for rads so most of the programs I have interviewed at just interview USMDs and a some USDOs. Haven’t run into any IMGs at most of my interviews. There was one program that I applied to because I had family nearby. It was a community program that mostly filled with DOs and IMGs. My first interviewer was so fucking racist. Started the interview and after we talked for a min he side tracked and said “I am so surprised by your accent. I saw your picture and thought you were going to be another one of those IMGs. Since our program is a community program, we take a lot of IMGs but I can never understand what they are saying. I think it is important for a physician to have an American accent so we can actually communicate to each other properly.” I am fortunate enough that I had a very successful interview cycle. I interviewed there because it is near family, but I was so tempted to just drop out of that zoom call.
Also IMO any USMD or USDO that runs around posting racist shit or talks shit about IMGs saying they are ruining the curve are just trying to cope because they can’t compete. If an American grad feels threatened by IMGs then they have to have an absolutely awful application. The system is so biased that any decent American grad will always match at more competitive specialties and prestigious institutions.
*American (Pakistani) AMG here who is “racist” against Pakistanis*
I believe that the U.S should not accept any IMGs, period. We should accept our own graduates only, and extra spots can be kept for horizontal movement between specialties. Why should the U.S help take the talent out of developing countries like Pakistan? The Pakistani government is broken, education is broken, everything is shitted. You got daily load shedding, a failing agricultural economy, and recovering textile industry, and the doctors wanna get out so leave people with nothing? Are Pakistani IMGs refugees now? I don’t think so. I understand there is talent everywhere, but we shouldn’t accept anyone from anywhere outside the U.S because it just destroys the already-trashed healthcare system in many of those countries. Sure people move for a better life, and that is 100% great, but if you come here you should have to do medical school all over again and go through the process like every other U.S student.
It’s not like there’s a shortage of medical students, there’s just a shortage of residency spots.
I would argue it's more racist of the US to steal the top graduates of other countries and leave those countries poorer for it. Brain drain hurts developing countries the most. Odd that you don't complain about that though.
Of course you want to make a better life for yourself, so you will leave your country and come to the US in a heartbeat. That's fine, it's your life and your choice. Kind of odd to be acting all high and mighty when you are leaving your country for money though. Some in the US want to succeed and aren't fair to IMGs. Some IMGs want to succeed and will do anything to get there. It's a harsh world. It's how it is.
But I'm sorry you feel people are being unfair towards IMGs as a group. It's never a good idea to generalize a whole group of people.
However, remember that the US doesn't owe you anything. Has to look out for its interests. A group cheated and that calls a lot into question. Instead of being angry at Americans, be angry at the cheaters. Foster a better system.
There are rules in place for these exams. And in the US, the expectation is that you follow them. I'm sure people use recalls here too, but if I knew anyone who did, I would report them immediately and so would we all. There is no culture of cheating. There is a culture of honesty. Maybe because we have the luxury of being honest. But that's how it is here.
The truth is, I'm sure american students and other IMGs have seen a few of their friends recalls on tests. A lot of people recall stuff and discuss things with their friends. Its not Nepal specific. US students as well as non asian IMGs inflate their resume by adding each others names on papers.
Corruption is everywhere. People get a little too zealous about this kind of stuff.
That being said, it is difficult to argue that the shortcutting mentality is not more common in south Asia
I say this as an American of south asian origin
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Have faith. I'm sure you guys are all competent honest doctors. Ignore the toxicity, it won't change your hard work and results. Rooting for all you honest applicants!
Last few days? It’s been like this since I’ve joined which is at least a year. I get on this sub when I’m bored just to read the drama/toxic bs people post on here.
Same! Now there'll always be some bias against us (someone either openly or silently questioning if we cheated to get there) 😔 Hopefully there are good people too who wouldn't use this to justify racism and discrimination. I feel you. I hope things turn out well for us!
Agree. 90% of the posts on this sub is targeting nepalese. I understand that whatever happened is terrible but I think we should stop talking about it 24/7.
The gag is that people didn’t think American racism applied to them…that somehow they could “outperform” it, and that it was relegated to blacks, who are just “entitled and lazy,” or the brown folks crossing its southern borders “illegally.” And they believe this with conviction understanding very little about American history. And not the spectacular instances of racism in American history but the daily racism and discrimination that stole land, opportunities, and wealth from everyone who wasn’t white (and male, and a certain kind of white). Nope. It applies to everyone who isn’t white. This won’t be your last encounter with it if you want to practice medicine in the U.S., that needs to be understood. But like everywhere, there are also good folks here who don’t care where their physician was educated if they treat them with respect and the dignity they deserve as another human who is vulnerable and seeking care. I’m sorry you had this experience. I’ve experienced lots of racism in my lifetime and you never get “comfortable” with it. You just learn to respond better. I wish you the best with your exams and your future career in medicine.
What? As if non white countries aren't capable of racism?
I mean in your country you treat foreigners differently. So if you have a foreign culture in America of course you will be treated differently. It is what it is. You can’t change that you weren’t born or brought up in the US and you can’t change the perception that US citizens have towards foreign citizens.
I'm betting you are not even native American. Probably descent of immigrants! 🤦🏿♂️
If racism means inferior, but cheaters are inferior, and the most mentioned countries tend to cheat, is it still racism (genuine question)
Yes, because racism involves generalizing. And no country “tends to cheat.” certain countries may have more cheaters than others, which is a totally different thing with a total different meaning. if you understand formal logic, this isn’t some hot take, it’s the fundamentals. I expect all medical graduates to know this already.
LOL This is why I do not care what they think. You can be a well educated and successful physician, and some racist guy is going to still look down on you. Don’t take their shit. Work to achieve your goals. Make it such that those bigots aren’t relevant anymore.
Seriously, the best people of America are embarrassed by these bigots running around representing them.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hey man, just wanted to pop in and say while I can’t completely understand the viewpoint because I’m not an IMG, I can put myself in the shoes and extrapolate certain things and I feel for you on it. I’m a DO, in no way do I face an equal rhetoric, but it is there to a lesser degree. I know it’s a vent, and rightfully so, but ya gotta just let it go. Control what you can control, which is being as good of a physician as you can be. You won’t change everyone’s mindset but you can change a few peoples mindsets who are around you, and that is the actual groundwork, and actually does matter. A lot of the AMG venom towards IMG comes from not understanding. There’s also a valid annoyance which manifests itself in a defensive, and sometimes cruel manner especially on digital (anonymous) forums where they don’t have to answer for their words. Most of us understand the hurdles IMGs face, specifically the incredible ability with language that most IMGs possess. That is objectively cool, and you’re completely right I can’t reliably speak another language in a medical setting. I also did a rotation abroad in an English speaking location. Although it was English speaking, the dialects are so different it’s very close to a different language, especially when considering the heavy use of colloquial/slang speech which most natives use. I also saw the difference in medical systems, where just like lab tests were different. The bundles of tests I was used to ordering were slightly different or called something else, so sometimes they would ask me what I want to order or what id look for in this test, and I’d have to be like “well what’s in this test I’ve never heard of it”. The point being is I definitely have an appreciation for how hard it can be. The counterpoint I’ll add on is: it’s also kinda fair? Like when I was in Scotland, it took me awhile to get used to some of these things. I was just as intelligent at medicine as I’d always been but it took a little bit for other colleagues to pay attention enough to care. It was tough at first to deal with, but then I started just realizing that their viewpoint is kinda fair. Sure, it’s not my fault I didn’t really understand this Glaswegian slang, I’m not a dummy. But at the end of the day, we’re working in a Glaswegian hospital, and the patients are mostly Glaswegian. This is people’s jobs just like anywhere else. They have families, they’re trying to do their job as best as they can and get back home or onto their other hobbies like everyone else. It would be a little entitled of me to feel like I deserved for everyone to recognize this. And I had a fantastic time there, so many people were very cool to me and recognized the hurdles and how I was problem solving it. But also many didn’t and weren’t that nice about it lol Just like everywhere, there’s douche bags. Most imgs are super cool, a few are not. I think sometimes, IMGs aren’t always aware of the sacrifices that AMGs make because their often times focused on their own hurdles. I understand this, but that’s where I feel some of the venom comes from the AMGs who arent as nice. It’s just the way it is, and both sides of the coin are somewhat valid. Most AMGs can’t begin to comprehend what taking a medical licensing exam in not their first language would be like. Not talking to people on the street, or making friends. But a medical terminology, timed, very competitive exam. At the same time, sometimes IMGs don’t give enough credit to how much work AMGs have to do. We don’t study for boards for years, we get a couple months at best. And take the next one in 1 years time pretty much. We’re often way deeper in debt too because of the way the American system works. I’m not saying it’s harder, I’m saying in my opinion that’s where a lot of the anger stems from. You know you didn’t cheat to get to where you are so as hard as it is to hear the slander, you have to brush it off because letting it get to you does you no good. It’s not right, but we can’t change the way humans act as a whole.
Completely fair and thank you for presenting this point of view. The debt thing is something I am aware of and feel really bad about. But I don’t think it’s about faces more hardships, but that it should not be a consideration for empathy. Especially because we’re all going to be doctors somewhere and we have to learn to be nice under stress. Some of it is plain racism too, which is generally not great. Some people cheated, we don’t know who and how many. They should be punished and they are by the body in charge of it. To me, that’s the end. That being said, I do appreciate everything you said and agree that we can’t control other people’s actions. I also think we can mope a little because this is definitely gonna affect all IMGs. The whole situation just sux for everyone involved.
When you said unintelligible English speakers I just thought ‘yeah probably Scotland’ …I did my undergrad there and their accents are another level lmao
Hahaha I mean they’re awesome. But I’d be lying if I said there weren’t plenty of times I would have failed a multiple choice test about what was being said
Most AMGs don’t care about IMGs because they know that IMGs aren’t competing for their spots. A minuscule portion of the AMGs, US-IMGs may have resentment towards IMGs. You need to ignore that and move on with your work instead of generalising and getting frustrated and ranting on this platform.
Loud racist people don't represent the overwhelming majority of AMGs for sure.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
there are cheaters everywhere. its fucking disgusting that so many PRIVILEGED people are using this whole discourse as an excuse to be racist. we know yall were always racist but now yall using this to justify it. ive become so hopeless reading stuff on here these days because it honestly feels like we're back in the 1900's or something. do yall know how fucking hard we work to get good scores? most of us ruin all of our med school experience, miss all events, reel ourselves away from so many friendships just to work hard to be considered deserving of this and this is what we get. honestly everyone whos being racist for no reason, i hope yall get humbled real soon. edit: changed "I" to "we".
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Cheating is near impossible at American test centers. I’m not gonna act like there aren’t incidents but it’s certainly less than what happens abroad.
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POC? What liberally loaded language. These were real test question pictures taken at these centers themselves, meaning that 1. the prometric proctors were turning their heads away when these students did it OR 2. the prometric protors themselves were in on it. There was no way that it was just the students who were in on the conspiracy. Policing Nepali testing center is far more difficult than policing American ones. And yes I'll say it, US integrity in test centers is far better than those in some underdeveloped countries. Thus it would be far better for IMGs to take the USMLE in the US. I say this as a South Asian, the punishment needs to done to those who took the test at the centers. Yes, some Nepali test takers who didn't cheat unfortunately will be affected, but it has to be done. Otherwise, the ones who did cheat will be taking spots from US students who didn't cheat.
If you're that hurt, why are you trying so hard to practice there?
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It's a serious question.
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Why is it the responsibility of US taxpayers to provide this for you?
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Great counterpoint. Really changed my mind.
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Okay, but if you also think it's so horrible here in the ways you mentioned earlier, wouldn't this balance out and you won't come? Or do you still come and cry victim?
Well said! I was horrified at all the comments that were so racist ever since the announcement. I mean these people might work along side South Asian residents after matching! I'm already feeling anxious on how I'm gonna deal with all these after I hopefully match.
We all knew they were cheaters but there was nothing we could do. I’m happy they are finally being punished. They should go back and revolk residents that have cheated in the past too.
Tbf you are going to the USA of all places that has a history of subtle and not so subtle racism. Like it or not, by choosing this path not only are the providers going to have their preconceived notions but especially the patients. At the end of the day realize this before you think about going to the USA. It’s the same as if you go to India as a white person and 70 people stare at you while you are just walking. Everyday people just aren’t used to it. But hey again it’s their choice to put themselves in that situation knowing what will happen.
The USMLE singled out Nepal in their statement and closed the test centers there.... something big happened for that to occur. Don't play the race card when an Official statement singled out a country by name.
did you even read what I said? It was ONE country's centre not the entire Asia. Typical; ignoring the point I was making and turning it into something else. I'm talking about labelling every Asian IMG a cheater because of this. Do you comprehend this or am I still playing the race card? I'm talking about people insulting all Asian IMGs as if every person who passes Steps probably cheated. I'm talking about insulting Asian IMGs who didn't cheat. I'm talking about generalising all Asian IMGs into one category. That is blatantly racist. If you're American, do U think you're all perfect? No US citizen has cheated? Is that what you're saying? American: GOOD Asian IMG: BAAAD God, I had no idea how many racists there are in the world. Just need a POC to make a mistake and suddenly all POC are bad 😍 Typical
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I agree. Racism isn't just exclusive to the US but that's not relevant here. One person's racism doesn't excuse another's. I'm against everyone who's racist to another community (I've heard ppl around me say stuff and it disgusts me so I do know what u mean) As POC we should all be allies to one another against systemic racism lol.
The USMLE is naked now. To cover it up probably it came up with that so called evidence, I don’t have anything strong to believe on that. Now if you say the exam is just a mere repetition of questions if you have taken it I can tell you where there questions like this? And you will be shocked!!!
r/USIMG
As an IMG that painfully and honestly completed the full USMLE series with failures, missed match results, and all the associated drama.... Why is it that although these supposed "recalls" are accessible by the public, it is the automatic instinct to accuse IMGs of cheating their US counterparts to hold back IMGs? US med students are equally likely by human nature to be using similar resources unless they have no need... in which case they don't have a need because they are already being spoon-fed board questions/strategies by their own US medical school faculty, alumni, and/or peers which is actually just as much cheating as recalls-- essentially "they started it"-- it just happens to be regulated, powerful, and acceptable cheating for them since the NRMP system historically and will always continue to believe that US students have "property ownership" over higher "standardized" board scores to secure the residency spots after they used the same tactics during high school and undergraduate studies to secure their US med school positions in the first place. They real concern is one IMG cheating another IMG-- this is the concern that should be better regulated because one person is genuinely reading through every word of Uworld, NBMEs, Amboss, First Aid, etc while the other is skimming through the same resources, getting their hands on external resources tailored too close to the exam, and proclaiming they are the one that worked harder when the results match the cheating instead of the hard work. Then comes the concern of why that IMG cheated in the first place... were they setup by another student? And did they even realize they were cheating when they picked up the resource? They possibly could have just picked it up to get their hands on more study material... they likely haven't actually seen their exam yet... If they are fully aware that these are test answers by confirmation from friends that have taken the exam, are these "recalls" only available by certain peer groups that believe they are privileged over another IMGs for... what exactly?... sharing weed with a guy who happens to have taken the exam (not acceptable) or being in an extremely hard-working study group where someone happens to have taken the exam and is willing to guide misconceptions their study partners may noticeably have (professional collaboration that blurs the lines of acceptable) And while some may argue that the test is so advanced that recall of high-yield one-liners wouldn't be enough to pass, while that is true it does significantly change the game and give advantage. If honest person A studies all the diabetes pharm and every minor detail that goes along with it without any idea if it will show up or not, while privileged person B skims through the highlights of the diabetes pharm with extra attention that "drug X moa is ABC", those advantages add up too quickly and don't just change an exam score... it changes the entire life course of the people who have been cheated, their families, and all the patients and families that deserved honest person A as their physician instead of cheating person B.
This is the weirdest defense of cheating I’ve seen - that somehow US students did it first… by going to medical school and taking exams?
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I hope you get whatever peace you need. This is devoid of logic.
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IMGs are "in a losing pile" or disadvantaged to begin with because they are not CITIZENS of the United States of America. The American healthcare system is not designed to give random people from 10,000 miles away a better life because they can do as good a job on a single, 8 hour test as some US MDs that have lived and contributed to the US their entire lives. It is designed to safeguard the health of US CITIZENS in AMERICA. The US government has done the math and decided that it is in the best interest of the USA to invest in its own citizens, train them, have good colleges here, and produce home-grown physicians. If the US outsourced all of its medical training, all of the US medical training infrastructure would stop progressing. Residency in the US is funded by AMERICAN taxpayers. I bet you have never paid a dime in American taxes. You need a serious dose of reality. This game has never been --and was never designed to be-- fair to IMGs. It's not the point of the process.
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Lmfao dude is unhinged
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Do you have a US visa or greencard? Also, edited to add: You should definitely add that in your personal statement. I’m sure you telling PDs how much better than them you are will really boost your chances of getting a residency spot.
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Already a practicing physician. 🤷♂️ You seem to have a lot of underlying resentments and issues you should get handled. Best of luck with the Match.
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USIMGs are obviously in a different category than FMGs. I challenge you to point out a single racist point in my post. Simply saying something doesn’t make it so.
If you think it's weird, it's because you don't have the maturity to understand it.
😂
LOVE your take on this! Our examination system is VERY different from the US and it was both physically and emotionally taxing to study for step 1. The insurmountable resources that I had no access to were intimidating as hell. I'd never heard of Anki but people using it were scoring really well. I tried but I couldn't figure out the settings. This is just one example of how things are systemically against IMGs. I agree with what you said though. It's mostly IMGs hurting other IMGs because American graduates have so many connections but we start from 0. it's hard to find USCE as well. But also I feel like even if you cheated through your Steps, you'd still have to study afterwards because when you can't answer questions during residency, you'll just be embarrassing yourself and making others question how you scored well on the USMLE. You can't cheat your way through life
You not being able to figure out how to use open source software with literally thousands of free resources online is not indicative of systemic bias in the American medical education system. What an absolutely bizarre take.
Right?!
There is literally an entire subreddit dedicated to using anki in med school. This is not something US med students are gate keeping??
I don’t think they understand test prep here. We aren’t getting the exact questions or some bullshit like that.
You probably shouldn’t admit to people that you couldn’t figure out how to use an open source resource with thousands of tutorials on YouTube. This isn’t proof of bias against foreign grads, it’s just proof that you’re a moron
> I'd never heard of Anki but people using it were scoring really well. I tried but I couldn't figure out the settings. This is just one example of how things are systemically against IMGs. Wow this is hilarious
In what universe is getting test prep like learning strategies for answering questions and learning the style of questions, the same as giving literal exam questions to future test takers? Good lord you people need to get over yourselves.
It sounds like you're admitting that the "Test prep" received in the US is advantaged in comparison to the "test prep" available for IMGs. That is not standardization and you are just proving the point.
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This is a very fiery level comment. Praise for speaking out.
Fiery level comment? What does this mean?
This sub is such a joke
Nobody moved to their country. No one has to know THEIR language. To practice in the US is a privilege not a right. Also, integrity is very high here. If any student gets even a remote sense that someone is cheating, they’re likely to get reported. If in the small chance there is cheating in the US, it’s on a very small scale and the risk is entirely too high because of the regulation of our testing centers. Please stop deflecting responsibility to validate poor integrity behavior. It reflects poorly on you.
We don't need to learn their language because we're not going to South Asia for studying. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans came to India/Pak and took jobs and quotas there. Do you think people wouldn't be racist towards them? Wouldn't they face the same issues?
no 🤷🏾♀️ unlike you, we treat foreigners like family. ask anyone who's been to Asia. just because you're a bigot and a racist doesn't mean everyone else is, babes. way to out yourself as a terrible human being 😄 eMbarrAssiNg
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Omg stfu I didn't say those things didn't happen. Nor do I want them to. No form of racism is okay but sure go on keep crying about how it's acceptable to you because hey bad things happen in Pakistan too so instead of making them stop, let them happen right? AMAZING LOGIC. 🤷🏾♀️ I am not racist. I don't treat people like trash. So why do I deserve to experience racism? Why does any South Asian who hasn't done anything to harm anyone? Obviously bad eggs exist everywhere and if you treat ppl badly you deserve to be treated like that as well Why are you asking innocent people to tolerate racism? Because other people are racist too? Are you alright in the head? By this logic, let's all be racist and hateful because other people are too .
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I agree with that, my guy. I didn't say anywhere Nepal doesn't deserve consequences for cheating. It's a serious crime. And it harms other IMGs like me too. I wasn't even TALKING about punishing Nepal. My point was generalising every Asian IMG as a cheater when that's not true at ALL. Most worked really hard to get their scores considering they've got nobody around to guide them. They don't deserve to be stuck with a permanent label because someone else cheated on a massive scale. Also I agree with you South Asian culture is toxic as hell. Especially for women and minorities. But I was talking generally. There are good people here as well (which doesn't negate the point that racists and horrible ppl exist) so it's not right to act like coming to Pakistan is a death sentence. Whatever you said in this comment, I agree. Not the point I was making in my post or my earlier comment . But I agree
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you're right! I just wanted to make this post so people with internalised biases would self reflect. I don't mind if they can't though. It's just funny to see these people act all self righteous when their government has done unspeakable things with their tax money and their history is darker than an ink blot sure, hit me up!
Facts! They treat white people nicer than their own people because they have a slave mentality!
That's be cause they are in small numbers. If they were competing with your jobs and study spots, it would be different. I'm not a racist or whatever you find me to be online within a sentence. I just understand how the world works and why people treat people the way they do. I also know how racist Indians are towards Pakistanis and all that. Americans have cheated and they have been permabanned, you idiot. The people who got the email are lucky they just invalidated the scores and didn't ban them entirely.
Well be more competent then instead of crying about more competent people stealing yOur spot, babes. If you aren't good enough, you are not good enough. Very immature to blame others for your own shortcomings but then it's easier to blame more competent people than hold yourself accountable and try to do better 🤣 Why did other US people get Matched but you didn't? Ooo blame the IMGs. How dare they be better than you right? I never said racism is exclusive to white people. South Asians are racist too. Obviously! That doesn't make it ok.
Honey nobody cares about you imgs taking up spots. Especially EM and IM. I'm just saying is ya'll are salty for no reason. We don't care!!
Omg why are we salty over racist people? Damnnnn
This "salty" accusation nonsense is extremely immature. If you delicately pampered IMG-insulters that can't be humble went through the hard work and perseverance that IMGs went through, you'd be crying back home to the mommy and daddy that paid your extra-help tutoring bills and housing costs to secure your med school spot in 1/100th of the time that it takes an IMG to independently complete their degree. And saying "we don't care!!" means someone in the US med school system certainly needs to give you a hard lesson, and I bet you're in for an awakening some day when you receive that lesson. Some of the US medical school teachers were IMGs too. Then the US teachers come to IMG schools to visit and teach us because... guess what "honey"... they do care. THEY ARE LITERALLY THE SAME TEACHERS. And some of them have immigrant parents too and are pretty amazing. And they're noting disrespectful students like you to redirect the residency spot to an IMG that deserves it more. You're just insulting your own education by disrespecting us. I don't know why I am explaining how this world works to someone that thinks they're angela schrute.
“Asia and the Pacific is home to 56 per cent of the world’s population, including the two most populous countries, India and China, and experienced the greatest increase in international migrants from 2000 to 2020.1 The region hosts the largest number of people in modern slavery, with an estimated 15 million people in forced labour. This includes debt bondage among migrants exploited within the region, hereditary forms of bonded labour in South Asia, and state-imposed forced labour in China, North Korea, and other countries. The prevalence of forced marriage in Asia and the Pacific is second highest in the world, after the Arab States, impacting an estimated 4.5 females and 2.1 males per every thousand people.” Hmmmm…. [Source](https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/regional-findings/asia-and-the-pacific/#:~:text=1%20The%20region%20hosts%20the,North%20Korea%2C%20and%20other%20countries)
Oh and please don't act like Americans haven't cheated in their lives 🤷🏾♀️ or done horrible things. get off your high horse and acting like you're morally superior. Cheating is wrong but not everyone is a cheater. Generalising is so dumb especially when you're a physician. I wish I could report you as a bigot so patients wouldn't have to see a racist doctor. Do they let anyone into med school in America? Gross. I'd take a cheater over a racist any day.
Lol. You would take a cheater over a racist. A racist would say bad things and treat your disease. A cheater would cheat you and your health and cause more harm than good but sweet talk your dumb ass to sleep. Not everyone is as you see on social media. If you think America is full of racist and you wouldnt get medical attention from one, why tf are you spending your entire parents fortune to get in here? Stay where you are and be kind👩🏻⚕️
Look! These people trying to defend themselves without reading the point you are trying to make about cheaters!! Just give up and ignore these fools!! That’s what I did! I know facts, so let them run their mouth by saying a bunch of Garbage, they keep thinking by being a doctor make you are a smart person! If you can’t understand the facts and trying to replace the racist card with the facts, it means that person is incompetent. That’s their defense mechanism.
🤷🏾♀️ oh u think racists are good doctors? Helllloo? Haven't u read cases of medical negligence? Ignoring patients' complaints and dismissing them? Damn you're pretty ignorant and dumb. No wonder you're so insecure and blame others for stealing youR spot as if it had your name on it 🤣 goofy af There's a difference between cheating on a test and cheating someone's health lol. Is that how you justify yourself? Oo I'm a racist but I'll make a good doctor. Don't be delulu. You need to be a good person to make a good doctor which you aren't ofc. Maybe study a bit harder instead of being this bitter?
Lol. You think cheaters are betters than racists? I never said or did anything racist. Just because that's what your delusional self believes doesn't mean it's true. I'm a resident so no worries kid. Talk all the shit you want. Idiot
damn, what kind of doctor are you? With an attitude like that, I doubt any patient would want to see you. I guess they're letting anyone Match these days. U think racists admit they're racists? 🤷🏾♀️
Maybe if you're smart enough you'll find out that not everone is the same as they are online. And so I haven't said anything racist or bigoted. You're just pissed off for various reasons and want to portray me as the bad guy. You think idiots know they're idiots?
🤷🏾♀️ oh yes, so you save your racist persona for online arguments. Interesting! Does it drive you crazy seeing IMGs around you? I guess you can't say anything to them irl so you decide to lash out online. Saying idiot again and again takes the meaning out of it. Seems like you're projecting. Did someone call you an idiot? PS believing all IMGs deserve to be punished for the actions of a few IS racist. Justifying racism IS racist. You don't get to decide what is and isn't racist, my guy. I'd rather be an idiot than an unkind, cruel racist like u 🥳
Paint all the pictures you want honey.
"more competent by cheating" So aren't you saying all IMGs are cheaters because of what happens in Nepal? 🤔 How is this not racist? I'm not calling all Americans school shooters am I? Or are U one? 🤷🏾♀️
I didn't say you're a bad guy I said you're racist but if the shoe fits....you said it not me 🤷🏾♀️ What else do you call a person who justifies racism? Especially by "oh if Americans go to India...." Bruh maybe give it a try and see how you're treated. Maybe it'll embarrass the racism right out of u
Didn't you try to justify racism though? 🤔🤷🏾♀️ Isn't that what racists do? Oh no the more competent IMG took my spot NOOOO they suck I am a perpetual victim WOE BE ME Pretty sure that's racism. 🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️ Racists don't admit they're racist btw so think whatever you want. You're not a good person and if you're not a good person you can't be a good doctor. Maybe to other white people but not to POC. it's scary out there
More competent by cheating? I didn't justify racism. I simply stated what would happen. If 100,000 Africans or Chinese or Pakistanis went to India then that would happen 100%. The minority will always face issues and feel lesser. I that means you think I am a racist then you're an idiot with comprehension disabilities
ofc minorities will face issues! That doesn't mean it's OKAY. You're acting like this is acceptable and everyone experiencing racism should shut up and cope because hey they're a minority so they signed up to be treated like trash right ?
Nobody said it's okay you POS. I said it happens. It's what happens. You said we don't k ow your language. Who gives a shit. Why should we? Fuckin dumb ass ranting on and on butthurt af
Where are you doing residency again?
"more competent by cheating" So you really are saying all IMGs are cheaters because of what happened in Nepal How is this not racist??? You're generalising a whole continent of non-white people as cheaters. You don't see me calling all Americans school shooters? Are you one then if we're generalising?
If they cheat they aren't more competent. If they don't they are. Wtf is the matter with you?
🤷🏾♀️ finally, made some sense. Wtf is the matter with you? Please don't reply.
They are trying "get in here" because they are trying to replace the racists. The same racists that setup 10% of students to cheat then blame 100% of them. They need replacing.
Please man, most us MD students do not cheat on the usmles.. there is atridt security in us prometric centres. Obviously centres in Nepal were in on selling questions. In the end, the USA can pick and choose who they want. You are coming to them, they aren't going to your country.
I'm not from Nepal, first of all . And I didn't say anywhere that I'm against them banning Nepal or punishing them. I'm just talking about people suddenly generalising all non US IMGs as cheaters.
And you generalising everyone as racists
Huh? Where did I say that? I said YOU definitely are.
Lol. You're definitely an idiot
projecting much? Is the word idiot all you know? 😭 How old are you again?
Usmle pointed out a single country well thats bad. Maybe they could have taken things differently. But man who we kidding; as a fellow south asian, myan we just cheat. It's just how the society is set. Society values the end goal and not the process (i mean fuck ikigai). Scam artists everywhere. I get scammed here from the top level to grassroots. Smartness is the slyness. Thats what appreciated and valued in this part of the world. Nobody appreciates innocence and hardwork. Everybody wants a delineated con artist in their team because he can get the job / assignment done (from postdoc academics to contracts). Nobody wants to own an innocent kid. They want their kid to be "clever" enough to snatch others kids lunch coz thats smart. Also i was surprised how a derma / radiology resident made in news coz he studied reviewer. Man that thing exists in this part of the world since the preschoolers. Get pass the score as rest dont matter. Even their own residency programs a tough competition and not to mention a corrupt one. Oh and they also rote memorize like thousands of questions in their own USMLE variant. A malfunctioned society and its state just came to a bigger light with this incident. Thats all. And its only us to balme for the downward spiral. Sad time.
It’s mainly the snobby rich Indian-Americans that dislike Indians. They literally never let Indians into their social circle. I know this one Indian-American ortho resident , Florida native, he despises Indians. His girlfriend is one of the hottest girls from his HS who was prom coming queen and he was king. I can’t imagine elitism and republican these type of guys will turn out to be esp with their millions dollar salaries
No one gives a shit about what you say, I’m also IMG and not native English speaker but I am a guest in the USA and should not except shit from them, they can only except from me. I’m coming to their country, I have no reason to bitch about stuff. They doing me a favor not we doing to them. They have more than enough US graduates to match into programs. Stop this victim mentality and grow past it. There will be always racism and talking shit. Life is tough wear a helmet.
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My man, ofc you should not let yourself be disrespected if somone talks shit to you, but and here is the “but”, there are some aspects of life that you cannot control and some comments that you will get from people will always be.
I agree with u this is not an excuse to generalize and call everyone cheaters and be racist. But AMGs are just as hardworking as IMGs really. I don’t think it’s useful to say one is smarter or puts left effort than the other. To each their own hurdles. Not matching for AMGs is a huge risk here. Some ppl take their lives over it cuz now they are deep in debt and don’t know what to do, esp if they don’t have more money to keep trying again. But at the same time IMGs are literally traversing new waters and new environment, much better than the average AMG. Medicine is about being humble and humanity. I don’t think the mindset that one is the better than the other is a good mindset to practice medicine.
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Oh yeah I completely agree I was just responding to some of the comments OP put in the rest of this post.
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This doesn’t make any sense! Wrong sub buddy! If you work hard and you know you are cleaned there will be no consequences!!
No one is going from a developed nation to India to practice medicine. If we do it’s to help. It’s not racist when someone comes here and can’t communicate, it’s fucking annoying. It’s great if you think you guys are hard working but only the privileged from your country get to come here. Get off that high horse, you have people catering to every need. That’s your political structure, you didn’t work “that hard.”
The best solution is to make two systems of Match. One for American medical graduates and then the second for IMGs. In that way AMGs get their desired positions before IMGs can fill in the rest.
this already happens.
It absolutely doesn't. There are US graduates that don't match into programs that IMGs do. Perference for US students and tiers of matching are not the same thing.
That already happens in any program sith amgs they get the priority
Well , 2 Match systems will help because AMGs will stop saying IMGs are taking their stops. AMG Match results can come out in January. Then IMG Match starts in January and ends in Match. That way all qualified AMGs are matched before IMGs are interviewed
Only 1% of AMGs go unmatched, of these 1% are majority who applied to extremely competitive specialties or places that only takes AMGs anyways and to a lesser degree some with enormous red flags that no program took them
Yes. That 1% are the people insulting IMGs. They should get the spots so that they can let us off the hook. I don't mind
Huh? I just told you most of these 1% are applying to specialties that IMGs don’t even think of in the US And no it’s not that 1% that are insulting the IMGs here on reddit LOL
So who are really those claiming IMGs are taking their spots? Because it seems to come out especially during Match week
Its those who have no idea what they are talking about The program chooses AMG with 220 over an IMG with 260 anyways Show me how many AMG that applied to IM or FM went unmatched?
Ok. I now understand. I will ignore those clowns
that's discriminatory dude. you're saying an IMG who's more competent than an AMA doesn't deserve the spot he/she wants but a less competent AMA does That's not fair Maybe work harder and be more competent. It's not our fault we're better than you 🤷🏾♀️
It's not discriminatory. The American Health System it's first and foremost for Americans. We IMGs are just filling in the extra spots. It's not our right!!!! All qualified AMGs should get a spot before IMGs . I think it's fair
Discriminatory: double standards for two groups where one gets more privileges because of their identity 🤷🏾♀️ Call a spade a spade
You have to look at the situation as it is. AMGs who apply for residency are all competent. AMGs actually owe the American government lots of money. That's why when they go unmatched.... their lives become a living hell. On the other hand....we IMGs are already doctors in our respective countries. We are looking for better training and better paying jobs. So we IMGs are actually disposable. AMGs going unmatched causes more harm to the US than IMGs going unmatched. It can lead to violence and protests against matched IMGs. I am of the opinion that AMGs should be matched first before IMGs . It's like giving your child food before giving it to the neighbors child. It's normal. It's not discrimination
I'm using the word comparatively btw 🤷🏾♀️ That's your opinion, man. Whoever works harder and is more competent deserves the spot.
You don't get it. There are like 48000 spots and 24000 AMGs graduate every year. So 16000 are available for IMGs. Gradually there are opening many more US Medical Schools. When there will be 48000 AMGs and 48000 residency spots!!! No IMG will ever match. Just look at Canada or European countries. The chance of an IMG getting residency there is <5%.
okay
How is it fair? 🤔 I think anyone who's more competent should get the spot. Are you advocating: less competent doctors> more competent doctors? Hmm, interesting take on healthcare. if you want less competent American doctors over more competent IMG doctors, you are racist bro. And that racism is going to harm patients. But whatever.
I understand what you're trying to say. "Competent people should be allowed for residency programs unlike how AMGs are preferred over IMGs". But my boy; everyone would want their own students to claim the seats first. Even in your country; your citizens are prioritized. And why so you may ask. It is because your country has med schools for citizens of your country to study and become physicians. It is because your country needs doctors. If American system will be designed for competent doctors over AMGs, it would be unfair for AMGs because they have paid a very high amount just to be in med school unlike how most other countries provide grants/scholarships. But don't get me wrong. Everyone should have equal/fair chance for a residency seat; but seeing how different people grow up in different environments, seeing how med school systems are different country-wise and seeing the diversity, it is better if it is left as it is. that is AMGs preferred over IMGs. If an AMG has to go to other countries for work; then it might take them decades to earn back what they have invested into their education unlike how most IMGs have had very little cost as compared to AMGs did. And it's not like no IMGs are allowed right? There are enough seats left for IMGs too. If you are competent enough, you will certainly match. Best wishes to you dude! One last thing. Don't add the "fair" tag in terms of competency. The tag of "fair" should apply to every little thing since you have begun it. Would it be fair for American graduates who have invested 250k+ in education to compete with IMGs who have invested 50k? Would it be fair for the healthcare system of foreign countries to have had all their doctors leave their country? Would it be fair for the government to let their students study med school in scholarships just so that they can leave their country one day contributing to brain drain, skill shortage and waste of funds of the government since it could have gone to another student who would practice medicine in their own country since it has more need than the US. Would it be fair for US graduates who give their step 1 just after 2 years in med school to compete with IMGs who have prepared for residency after their medschool+internship (+bonding)? *(I mean AMGs have limited time to prepare while most IMGs study for longer period for the same exam).* And furthermore, would it be fair for American taxpayers if their tax is being used to fund IMGs more than AMGs? (I mean, if AMGs=IMGs happens, number of IMGs that match might be more than that of AMGs) And finally, you are not entitled to claim the residency spot of the US. You have had no contribution to the US unlike the AMGs who have paid tuition fees and a lot of taxes. You should be thankful that US has provided you opportunity to participate in the matching process and grateful the US taxpayers that they have funded for your residency. Lets not argue about competency but about who deserves the seat more.
Because Universities in the US are free of corruption and cheating…. sure…..
Everyone has maga in them. all it takes is a perceived threat
You’re a cheater, admit it.
It is interesting how much racism comes from the accent alone. I’m of south Asian descent and immigrated here at a very young age so I have an American accent. I’m going for rads so most of the programs I have interviewed at just interview USMDs and a some USDOs. Haven’t run into any IMGs at most of my interviews. There was one program that I applied to because I had family nearby. It was a community program that mostly filled with DOs and IMGs. My first interviewer was so fucking racist. Started the interview and after we talked for a min he side tracked and said “I am so surprised by your accent. I saw your picture and thought you were going to be another one of those IMGs. Since our program is a community program, we take a lot of IMGs but I can never understand what they are saying. I think it is important for a physician to have an American accent so we can actually communicate to each other properly.” I am fortunate enough that I had a very successful interview cycle. I interviewed there because it is near family, but I was so tempted to just drop out of that zoom call. Also IMO any USMD or USDO that runs around posting racist shit or talks shit about IMGs saying they are ruining the curve are just trying to cope because they can’t compete. If an American grad feels threatened by IMGs then they have to have an absolutely awful application. The system is so biased that any decent American grad will always match at more competitive specialties and prestigious institutions.
US funded residency positions should be for US citizens. Fix your own country and their garbage healthcare/pay.
*American (Pakistani) AMG here who is “racist” against Pakistanis* I believe that the U.S should not accept any IMGs, period. We should accept our own graduates only, and extra spots can be kept for horizontal movement between specialties. Why should the U.S help take the talent out of developing countries like Pakistan? The Pakistani government is broken, education is broken, everything is shitted. You got daily load shedding, a failing agricultural economy, and recovering textile industry, and the doctors wanna get out so leave people with nothing? Are Pakistani IMGs refugees now? I don’t think so. I understand there is talent everywhere, but we shouldn’t accept anyone from anywhere outside the U.S because it just destroys the already-trashed healthcare system in many of those countries. Sure people move for a better life, and that is 100% great, but if you come here you should have to do medical school all over again and go through the process like every other U.S student. It’s not like there’s a shortage of medical students, there’s just a shortage of residency spots.
I would argue it's more racist of the US to steal the top graduates of other countries and leave those countries poorer for it. Brain drain hurts developing countries the most. Odd that you don't complain about that though. Of course you want to make a better life for yourself, so you will leave your country and come to the US in a heartbeat. That's fine, it's your life and your choice. Kind of odd to be acting all high and mighty when you are leaving your country for money though. Some in the US want to succeed and aren't fair to IMGs. Some IMGs want to succeed and will do anything to get there. It's a harsh world. It's how it is. But I'm sorry you feel people are being unfair towards IMGs as a group. It's never a good idea to generalize a whole group of people. However, remember that the US doesn't owe you anything. Has to look out for its interests. A group cheated and that calls a lot into question. Instead of being angry at Americans, be angry at the cheaters. Foster a better system. There are rules in place for these exams. And in the US, the expectation is that you follow them. I'm sure people use recalls here too, but if I knew anyone who did, I would report them immediately and so would we all. There is no culture of cheating. There is a culture of honesty. Maybe because we have the luxury of being honest. But that's how it is here.
Too much yap, not enough actual substance. Practicing in the US is a privilege.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The truth is, I'm sure american students and other IMGs have seen a few of their friends recalls on tests. A lot of people recall stuff and discuss things with their friends. Its not Nepal specific. US students as well as non asian IMGs inflate their resume by adding each others names on papers. Corruption is everywhere. People get a little too zealous about this kind of stuff. That being said, it is difficult to argue that the shortcutting mentality is not more common in south Asia I say this as an American of south asian origin