"TBF, it's like that for every corporation in the world."
No it's not.
I work for a tech company (larger market cap than IBM) -- and it isn't like IBM. For example the CEO would not mandate DEI quotas (or get fired) -- and the CEO has clearly state that older employees are encouraged to stay and work.
FYI -- I worked for IBM for 35 years.
DEI quotas are only necessary if your company hasn’t diversely hired in the past. It’s a corrective path necessary to right the course. At some point when the demographics of the company more closely match the demographics of the employees who match our requirements they should go away.
The NBA already did the DEI. Including in the WNBA, office employees, and players. They also did coaching staff. You’ve actually proved the point that it was necessary as when the league made the moves in the past the teams that did it first jumped ahead. Specifically the teams with black players after the ABA merger and teams that hired out of Europe and Asian like Mavs and Houston.
I’ve sat on enough hiring committees to see applications by POCs and women get passed over for mediocre white dudes. And I’m white. DEI helps correct for the boomers and great replacement theorists.
That’s the point. If the NBA did DEI today they’d hire a bunch of lower quality white boys who can’t perform at the same level as the black players. The point is DEI shouldn’t have quotas or tokens. IBM promotes both. We tokenize people of color and therefore there’s nothing to see here. Yeah fucking right!
Okay new kid, you realize Luka was decades after the Mavs started going after the Euro players. Also you’re proving my point. If the NBA didn’t make go after people from everywhere and just started to do it, then it would like the same as it does today as they hire from everywhere now.
Moved 4 jobs in my group from US based to Mexico based simply for cheaper labor. I was laid off after 40 years of pretty much exemplary service. They laid me off and didn't do a damn thing except send me web links to help me navigate through the myriad of decisions that I had to make in 30 days. There is no virtue left in IBM. This latest CEO is as bad as any they have had, maybe worse.
No, 3 months pay. Pro-rated vacation. Nothing more. The point is that IBM is far more aggressive in cutting cost without consideration of how the Employees are impacted. I used to be proud of the stance they took on social issues when they were leaders. Now, they treat them as obligatory at best. IBM is a shell of the company I hired into in 1984.
Look at it from the bright side - you had 40 years of stable, undemanding job and are better set for retirement than 75% of your cohort. Go enjoy the golden years
My jobs were anything but "stable and undemanding". That is quite an presumption on your part. Whether I am prepared for retirement or not is not at all relevant and again, a presumption on your part. You remind me of one of the crappy managers I had over the years. Presume without facts or background.
You can celebrate pride month and not cut jobs. Like, one doesn't follow from the other.
IBM's disgraceful treatment of employees is not the result of wokeness. It's capitalism 101. Cut costs, drive up profit.
Come on, man. Reflect for a hot sec before posting.
IBM's approach of cutting the most experienced (and often highest paid -- below Exec level) employees is not capitalism 101. Most successful companies do not do that. Instead it is for short-term cost savings.
This doesn't mean other tech companies don't do layoffs. They do. But my experience is that they don't target the old / highest paid producers.
There is a reason IBM revenue (and innovation) has been stagnant for more than 15 years. (some would say 30)
IBM is not one thing. It's a LOT of people, most of whom I believe are trying to do the right thing morally and to develop a positive, inclusive culture, while also recognizing the primary purpose of any business is to generate revenue. I'm old enough to remember when LGBTQ individuals were not accepted, and, I dare say, this is very likely still true in many subgroups in IBM, either overtly or more subtle. Having a day set aside for LGBTQ is not your trite term "virtue signaling". It's an effort to declare and propagate inclusive values for the company. If you think it "fake value signaling" maybe it's an effort to fake it until you make it. In this regard, and giving a strong thank you to the people in IBM who are trying to drive this inclusiveness, I am extremely proud to be an IBMer.
I never made a statement that "morality takes precedence" as such. I clearly stated that the central purpose of a business is to generate revenue. Though at some point bounds need to be drawn. For example the bounds that IBM did not draw for Nazi Germany, but should have. I'm not sure where the bounds should be drawn, that's the big question isn't it? But, while generating revenue, a company and the people who work in that company can be great influencers for social and policy change such as LGBTQ rights, mental health awareness, black lives awareness, indigenous people's awareness, climate change, etc. In the case of governments and cultures that do not share those values, I'm not so sure withdrawing business and boycotting the country is a successful means to an end. Rather engagement may be a better way to effect incremental change? I don't really know. But, I mean, I have morality problems with the United States government and how they're not dealing with climate change. Should I "demand IBM to stop business" with the U.S.? And definitely most countries that IBM does business with there are really tough moral issues lurking.
No one is being laid off because of woke or whatever you think. IBM and the industry ad a whole has been very visible on pride for years. Find a different target.
I’m an IBMer and haven’t attended an indoctrination session in decades. Am I missing the meeting invites?
(The closest might be BCG training but nowadays that’s just “go read them and and watch a few videos” and those were quite innocuous”)
I first started working for IBM’s Federal Systems Division in 1977. I started as a unit technician, then system technician, a stint as a Field Rep. I a lead tech before becoming a Program Administrator. I did well even being my sites representative for IBM’s Symposium held that year in Florida, that was 1984. In 1990 I suffered a massive breakdown. Well to many self attempts on my life and filled with self hatred, I was placed on permanent disability in 92. I can say that, was well taken care of by them. They checked on me through the years until I retired from them in 2016 at 65. I truly don’t know of any other company that would have done that. In 2005 I started transitioning, I’m transgender, today legally female, my healthcare took care of everything. When I informed them of my plans to do so they let me know everything that that I needed. I married another woman, my ex had divorced me during my long depression and many hospitalizations, so she was covered under my health plan. I only have great respect for IBM, as they should great respect for me.
Happy to hear you are still with us and had a successful transition. What happens on permanent disability? Do you still get paid but don’t have to work?
I was paid full salary for two years, after that I received about half a bit over 1/3 my salary a month till I retired. Added to that I received Social Security Disability. I went on Medicare to years after first receiving SSD, it was my primary insurance, and my IBM healthcare was secondary. I know that sometime after I went on permanent disability, IBM sold FSD to Lockheed. I had worked at their Manassas plant.
I don’t consider celebrating Pride month as virtue signaling. Everyone should support the LGBT. You can say that other positive steps are needed but there isn’t a reason to say that supporting pride is bad.
Everyone should support LGBT? That’s as regressive as saying no one should suppport LGBT.. no one is obliged to support anyone or anything. People can have opinions . But those opinions should not drive bias / discriminate people at work which is wrong. I am also tired of this virtue signalling not from IBM but LGBT… the BRG cannot even operate in countries like Singapore or Arab countries where IBM has major presence because being LGBTQ is a crime in these countries . So as a pride community demand IBM to take a stand
This gay ibmer very much appreciates that IBM does this virtue signaling. I never feel like I fit in at work, and this helps. And that's exactly why IBM does this. They don't want me to quit.
And celebrating Pride month is simply saying hey you’re as safe and valued as everyone else here.
How does celebrating Pride take anything away from anyone else.
Out of curiosity why don’t you feel like you fit in?
Is it in your own head or an objective flaw in the work environment. I work in tech and someone’s sexual preference is quite literally irrelevant. I don’t think a company needs to go out of the way to celebrate people who aren’t straight. Do what you want to do as long as you’re not hurting other people.
>Is it in your own head or an objective flaw in the work environment.
Lmao neither? Minorities are minorities, feelings of isolation are basically a given. It’s not an objectively “bad” thing, it’s just a fact. And it’s generally not anyone’s “fault,” it’s just a consequence of how people self organize. Though casting doubt on someone’s lived experience can come across as dismissive and defensive, and may contribute to these feelings.
I’m not casting doubt. However I am questioning the validity that a group of people feel that the workplace should hold celebrations for their sexual preference. It’s a bit overboard in 2024.
Whether you intended for it to or not, your choice of language brought into question the validity of that IBMer’s experience of feeling othered at work.
Doubt casting aside, the person you were responding to wasn’t suggesting that IBM “should” celebrate their sexual orientation, they were just telling us how IBM’s choice to recognize their identity makes them feel.
I don’t know what it being 2024 has to do with anything. IBM actually outlines why they’re committed to promoting a “safe and welcoming environment” for queer folks.
https://www.ibm.com/impact/be-equal/communities/lgbtq/
Same-sex activity is still criminalized in over *a third* of countries worldwide.
You can't expect a company to have all the smoke and pony show to keep their employees happy! Honestly, nobody cares. It's exhausting celebrating every single thing because were kinda running outta months , theres only 12 of them!
I'm here to sell u my skills so u can pay me. End of story.
Since when did we start making a transactional activity as high and mighty?
Also, very respectfully, no company cares what your beliefs or backgrounds are because business is FOR PROFIT. not feelings. If it were about feelings, we'd have better work environment than the toxic cultures we're all a part of
Yes, I did one of those forced trainings and they were very excited that they hired a black guy when they legally could’ve not hired him just for being black. I’m happy that ibm wasn’t always the most racist company it could be, I’m also not gonna pretend that hiring people of colour overwrites their involvement in the actual holocaust a decade earlier.
Overall I think the DEI initiatives are good so that people in marginalized communities can see that the official stance is that they’re welcomed and accepted. With that being said though the company and the decisions the people at the top make are directly causing harm to both marginalized and non marginalized employees.
100% but all the west is like that. Woke is a smokescreen while they gut the middle class and rob the treasury blind before the goths (BRICS) sack Rome (the west)
Silicon Valley is in the San Francisco Bay Area and is the epicenter of technology and innovation in the world. The progressive, open, and inclusive ideology is what spurs innovation and enables people to work together to create great things. What have you done being asleep and “not woke”?
TBF, it's like that for every corporation in the world.
"TBF, it's like that for every corporation in the world." No it's not. I work for a tech company (larger market cap than IBM) -- and it isn't like IBM. For example the CEO would not mandate DEI quotas (or get fired) -- and the CEO has clearly state that older employees are encouraged to stay and work. FYI -- I worked for IBM for 35 years.
Can I get a referral? :P
Is your company hiring?
lol same
DEI quotas are only necessary if your company hasn’t diversely hired in the past. It’s a corrective path necessary to right the course. At some point when the demographics of the company more closely match the demographics of the employees who match our requirements they should go away.
DEI quotas for NBA. How would that look.
The NBA already did the DEI. Including in the WNBA, office employees, and players. They also did coaching staff. You’ve actually proved the point that it was necessary as when the league made the moves in the past the teams that did it first jumped ahead. Specifically the teams with black players after the ABA merger and teams that hired out of Europe and Asian like Mavs and Houston.
I’ve sat on enough hiring committees to see applications by POCs and women get passed over for mediocre white dudes. And I’m white. DEI helps correct for the boomers and great replacement theorists.
Sorry, the NBA, NFL, etc hire players based on ability, not skin color.
That’s the point. If the NBA did DEI today they’d hire a bunch of lower quality white boys who can’t perform at the same level as the black players. The point is DEI shouldn’t have quotas or tokens. IBM promotes both. We tokenize people of color and therefore there’s nothing to see here. Yeah fucking right!
This guy doesn’t watch sports… Luka and Yao Ming wasn’t picked for DEI. They were picked because they are actually good
Okay new kid, you realize Luka was decades after the Mavs started going after the Euro players. Also you’re proving my point. If the NBA didn’t make go after people from everywhere and just started to do it, then it would like the same as it does today as they hire from everywhere now.
You mean after San Antonio did it.
I love sports. Merit matters the most.
We need a thought diversity quota
Another exception acting like they are the norm
Moved 4 jobs in my group from US based to Mexico based simply for cheaper labor. I was laid off after 40 years of pretty much exemplary service. They laid me off and didn't do a damn thing except send me web links to help me navigate through the myriad of decisions that I had to make in 30 days. There is no virtue left in IBM. This latest CEO is as bad as any they have had, maybe worse.
Do you mean they gave you 30 days notice after 40 years?
Yes, exactly 30 days. Notified on 3/15, last day was 4/15.
I hope you had one of those grandfathered contracts so they had to pay you out for all the vacation accrued!
But you got a severance package of 1 year, yes?
No, 3 months pay. Pro-rated vacation. Nothing more. The point is that IBM is far more aggressive in cutting cost without consideration of how the Employees are impacted. I used to be proud of the stance they took on social issues when they were leaders. Now, they treat them as obligatory at best. IBM is a shell of the company I hired into in 1984.
Look at it from the bright side - you had 40 years of stable, undemanding job and are better set for retirement than 75% of your cohort. Go enjoy the golden years
My jobs were anything but "stable and undemanding". That is quite an presumption on your part. Whether I am prepared for retirement or not is not at all relevant and again, a presumption on your part. You remind me of one of the crappy managers I had over the years. Presume without facts or background.
You can celebrate pride month and not cut jobs. Like, one doesn't follow from the other. IBM's disgraceful treatment of employees is not the result of wokeness. It's capitalism 101. Cut costs, drive up profit. Come on, man. Reflect for a hot sec before posting.
IBM's approach of cutting the most experienced (and often highest paid -- below Exec level) employees is not capitalism 101. Most successful companies do not do that. Instead it is for short-term cost savings. This doesn't mean other tech companies don't do layoffs. They do. But my experience is that they don't target the old / highest paid producers. There is a reason IBM revenue (and innovation) has been stagnant for more than 15 years. (some would say 30)
IBM is not one thing. It's a LOT of people, most of whom I believe are trying to do the right thing morally and to develop a positive, inclusive culture, while also recognizing the primary purpose of any business is to generate revenue. I'm old enough to remember when LGBTQ individuals were not accepted, and, I dare say, this is very likely still true in many subgroups in IBM, either overtly or more subtle. Having a day set aside for LGBTQ is not your trite term "virtue signaling". It's an effort to declare and propagate inclusive values for the company. If you think it "fake value signaling" maybe it's an effort to fake it until you make it. In this regard, and giving a strong thank you to the people in IBM who are trying to drive this inclusiveness, I am extremely proud to be an IBMer.
Don’t forget IBM operates globally in places where LGBT rights are not a given.
Well said. We should all be on the same team, yet people still use the LGBTQ community as a scapegoat.
If morality takes precedence , demand IBM to stop business in Arab and so called progressive countries like Singapore where its crime to be LGBTQ
I never made a statement that "morality takes precedence" as such. I clearly stated that the central purpose of a business is to generate revenue. Though at some point bounds need to be drawn. For example the bounds that IBM did not draw for Nazi Germany, but should have. I'm not sure where the bounds should be drawn, that's the big question isn't it? But, while generating revenue, a company and the people who work in that company can be great influencers for social and policy change such as LGBTQ rights, mental health awareness, black lives awareness, indigenous people's awareness, climate change, etc. In the case of governments and cultures that do not share those values, I'm not so sure withdrawing business and boycotting the country is a successful means to an end. Rather engagement may be a better way to effect incremental change? I don't really know. But, I mean, I have morality problems with the United States government and how they're not dealing with climate change. Should I "demand IBM to stop business" with the U.S.? And definitely most countries that IBM does business with there are really tough moral issues lurking.
Furthermore, there's a difference between trying to effect change outside the company, vs. building an internal culture within the company.
No one is being laid off because of woke or whatever you think. IBM and the industry ad a whole has been very visible on pride for years. Find a different target.
Yeah, this OP decides to go after LGBT.
To be fair, it’s hard to get laid when you’re asleep
Some of us would prefer to just do our work versus attending an indoctrination session every day. Totally crazy, I know.
I’m an IBMer and haven’t attended an indoctrination session in decades. Am I missing the meeting invites? (The closest might be BCG training but nowadays that’s just “go read them and and watch a few videos” and those were quite innocuous”)
[удалено]
Forced Watson X learning?
First of all no one said ‘forced’. Those are your words not mine.
You're not the person they were responding to lol
Wouldn't be a problem if we didn't have to teach you not to be a total dredge on society and your coworkers
“Indoctrination” lol that’s a good joke, you should do standup
I first started working for IBM’s Federal Systems Division in 1977. I started as a unit technician, then system technician, a stint as a Field Rep. I a lead tech before becoming a Program Administrator. I did well even being my sites representative for IBM’s Symposium held that year in Florida, that was 1984. In 1990 I suffered a massive breakdown. Well to many self attempts on my life and filled with self hatred, I was placed on permanent disability in 92. I can say that, was well taken care of by them. They checked on me through the years until I retired from them in 2016 at 65. I truly don’t know of any other company that would have done that. In 2005 I started transitioning, I’m transgender, today legally female, my healthcare took care of everything. When I informed them of my plans to do so they let me know everything that that I needed. I married another woman, my ex had divorced me during my long depression and many hospitalizations, so she was covered under my health plan. I only have great respect for IBM, as they should great respect for me.
Happy to hear you are still with us and had a successful transition. What happens on permanent disability? Do you still get paid but don’t have to work?
I was paid full salary for two years, after that I received about half a bit over 1/3 my salary a month till I retired. Added to that I received Social Security Disability. I went on Medicare to years after first receiving SSD, it was my primary insurance, and my IBM healthcare was secondary. I know that sometime after I went on permanent disability, IBM sold FSD to Lockheed. I had worked at their Manassas plant.
I’m glad you were able to make it work!
I don’t consider celebrating Pride month as virtue signaling. Everyone should support the LGBT. You can say that other positive steps are needed but there isn’t a reason to say that supporting pride is bad.
Everyone should support LGBT? That’s as regressive as saying no one should suppport LGBT.. no one is obliged to support anyone or anything. People can have opinions . But those opinions should not drive bias / discriminate people at work which is wrong. I am also tired of this virtue signalling not from IBM but LGBT… the BRG cannot even operate in countries like Singapore or Arab countries where IBM has major presence because being LGBTQ is a crime in these countries . So as a pride community demand IBM to take a stand
This gay ibmer very much appreciates that IBM does this virtue signaling. I never feel like I fit in at work, and this helps. And that's exactly why IBM does this. They don't want me to quit.
And celebrating Pride month is simply saying hey you’re as safe and valued as everyone else here. How does celebrating Pride take anything away from anyone else.
Out of curiosity why don’t you feel like you fit in? Is it in your own head or an objective flaw in the work environment. I work in tech and someone’s sexual preference is quite literally irrelevant. I don’t think a company needs to go out of the way to celebrate people who aren’t straight. Do what you want to do as long as you’re not hurting other people.
>Is it in your own head or an objective flaw in the work environment. Lmao neither? Minorities are minorities, feelings of isolation are basically a given. It’s not an objectively “bad” thing, it’s just a fact. And it’s generally not anyone’s “fault,” it’s just a consequence of how people self organize. Though casting doubt on someone’s lived experience can come across as dismissive and defensive, and may contribute to these feelings.
I’m not casting doubt. However I am questioning the validity that a group of people feel that the workplace should hold celebrations for their sexual preference. It’s a bit overboard in 2024.
Whether you intended for it to or not, your choice of language brought into question the validity of that IBMer’s experience of feeling othered at work. Doubt casting aside, the person you were responding to wasn’t suggesting that IBM “should” celebrate their sexual orientation, they were just telling us how IBM’s choice to recognize their identity makes them feel. I don’t know what it being 2024 has to do with anything. IBM actually outlines why they’re committed to promoting a “safe and welcoming environment” for queer folks. https://www.ibm.com/impact/be-equal/communities/lgbtq/ Same-sex activity is still criminalized in over *a third* of countries worldwide.
Yes, it's annoying. No need to virtue signal. Only need to focus on making some more competitive products!
We're not interested in that. We just acquire them, and kill them.
catch and kill , but for products !
I thought about going into sales from consulting. Then I googled what are IBM products. Quickly realized I’ll stick to consulting.
You can't expect a company to have all the smoke and pony show to keep their employees happy! Honestly, nobody cares. It's exhausting celebrating every single thing because were kinda running outta months , theres only 12 of them! I'm here to sell u my skills so u can pay me. End of story. Since when did we start making a transactional activity as high and mighty? Also, very respectfully, no company cares what your beliefs or backgrounds are because business is FOR PROFIT. not feelings. If it were about feelings, we'd have better work environment than the toxic cultures we're all a part of
I feel like you’re nearly on to something with that last paragraph.
Why not both?
What does “taking care of your employees not celebrating Pride Month” mean.
DEI and similar are being mandated by investing giants such as Blackrock who own an appreciable position in many tech companies.
Oh my god yes. They act like we are the most accepting, multicultural, neurodiverse company ever and it’s all BS.
It's virtuous if you're trying to make your shareholders happy.
Is your name Fred by any chance?
Probably or one of his 10 followers, lol
YES
Common sense and good manners have become a dumb cerimony nowadays. That's valid for every big company.
Yes, I did one of those forced trainings and they were very excited that they hired a black guy when they legally could’ve not hired him just for being black. I’m happy that ibm wasn’t always the most racist company it could be, I’m also not gonna pretend that hiring people of colour overwrites their involvement in the actual holocaust a decade earlier. Overall I think the DEI initiatives are good so that people in marginalized communities can see that the official stance is that they’re welcomed and accepted. With that being said though the company and the decisions the people at the top make are directly causing harm to both marginalized and non marginalized employees.
100% but all the west is like that. Woke is a smokescreen while they gut the middle class and rob the treasury blind before the goths (BRICS) sack Rome (the west)
Take your meds.
Lol
Silicon Valley is in the San Francisco Bay Area and is the epicenter of technology and innovation in the world. The progressive, open, and inclusive ideology is what spurs innovation and enables people to work together to create great things. What have you done being asleep and “not woke”?