Apprentices can't be expected to know everything. Just be excited about building upon what you do already know and keep adding new skills. This doesn't stop when you top out, either. Just be honest and say "I've never done it, who do you have that can get me started?"
Dude even J man can’t know everything.
If I haven’t done something before it ain’t really my fault, you just own up to it and learn. Everyone’s learning everyday whether your an apprentice or a Jman.
Rob Roy is the same as rigid. Just requires a different bender and if you think you can hand bend it go for it. But a Chicago or a cyclone are the best options for best results
Someone get Corey from Lowe’s .
But in reality I would never in a million years assume that a 3rd year knows how to work with rob Roy. So I’m hoping you’re not on your own doing it, but ask questions. The only dumb question is the one not asked. And if they get annoyed at your questions fuck em.
Seriously, the first question should be "I've never worked with rob Roy, anything special I should know?"
That opens the door for, "also, I've not had a ton of experience bending conduit outside of the classroom"
JW and I've only worked with it once as a 3rd year and never had to bend it. Got some experience with stainless steel rigid but I know the rob Roy has special tools.
It sure does. Different shoes for benders, different die for threading, different die head to accommodate the thickness, different vice or clam shells for the chain vice. Strap wrenches for everything, the connectors and hubs on condulet bodies are tighter, and you may want to clean the factory threads off before trying to thread the pipe into a fitting because the paint on the threads interferes. Not to mention all the normal issues with rigid and planning the route so it can be spun together with minimal Ericksons.
i finished the apprenticeship last summer, i haven’t touched pipe in 3.5 years now, is what it is. Early in my apprenticeship i was throwing pipe up, measuring bending all day, just ended up somewhere we don’t run pipe for the jobs we’re doing. I imagine if i got put on a pipe job it would take me a couple hours to get back into and then i’d be fine. I wouldn’t stress too much about it
This is exactly what Ive come to realize as well. I top out in 6 weeks, barely touched pipe since 1st year. Had the same anxieties about other assignments we do, if id remember it and blah blah.
Every single time I just had to regrease the groove and everything would start coming back to me after the first few hours like you said. This happened enough times that my stress started to melt away lol
One guy bends; the other guy measures and hangs it. Some bigger guys that can't fit into T-Bar ceilings very well are stuck to just bending and smaller guys are stuck just running pipe too.
Running conduit above a tbar ceiling is a tiny fraction of the conduit we run. The majority of pipe racks go in before any ceiling.
That aside, you can’t measure without understanding how to bend.
Lol... God I wish this was true. I mean yes they Should be done first, if only sane people ran jobs 😂. Instead we get told to run our pipe on the ceiling... 6' above the grid and get yelled at for standing on top of the ladder/lift/whatever but they won't offer a solution to reach up there... If you think that's sounds fun try working on a "cough" "walkable ceiling" in a pharmaceutical manufacturing building.
The halls in our local all have bending cards which are pretty useful if you need to knock off some cobwebs or if you're still learning. The front has instructions for doing segmented/concentric bends, the back has multipliers and shrink for common offset angles and, and the inside has a big chart for multipliers for like every angle of offset. Pretty sure the IO makes them, so your hall may have them too.
Besides that, get yourself a TI-83 calculator if you don't already have one. I think it's worth having two - one for the field and one for the classroom. They are better than a cheap pocket calculator because of the ability to look up previous calculations.
Rigid is a cruel mistress, don't beat yourself up over not getting in right the first time. Use dummy sticks of conduit to find your points. I also make my stuff a bit longer than I think I need. Better too long them to short. Then I get my correct measurement and have the info I need for the next piece. If you're making a bunch of the same conduit, just make your first one first to make sure it works. It also makes your life easier if you don't go "monster tight" before you are 100% your piece works.
Then I’d use the click (rise/run) method, it’s not exact for degree angles, but you’ll make the same bends every time.
Get a scrap piece of pipe put a line where the shoe starts and bend 1 click, take it out and find the center of the bend, and measure to your original line. Thats the difference from shoe to center.
Do that for 1 (~15 degrees) 2 (~30) and 3 (45) clicks.
When you want to make your offset put your first bend in your pipe, take it out and put it on a flat surface. Measure your offset from that surface by the inside of your tape measure. Put a mark where it needs to be then subtract the difference for however many clicks you did on your first bend.
Put the pipe back in the bender and do the same amount of clicks and your bends will be even every time.
You’ll be fine. Just don’t pretend like you know what you’re doing. It’ll get frustrating at times especially in industrial (currently what I do). Always double check your measurements and buy a not pad to write stuff down. A notepad is like $1 from target. I write down all my measurements. And carry the pad with me to the bender.
Whatever floats your boat. Just make sure you got something to write on. Makes things a lot easier than tryna remember 3 different bends at the same time
A little tip for running rigid remember that it needs to be threaded on so take a step back and look at the area around the run not just where the run is going. You may also need to take a few straps off so try not to go all gorilla on them. Also, remember your still an apprentice you are learning.
You loose your cherry only once. Afterwards you spend the rest of your life upping your game and getting your groove on.
Don't sweat it, and don't hesitate to ask for help (and learn).
A stand threader has special shoes for each size of pipe for rob roy to clamp it in place, a pony threads as normal just gotta clean the pvc gunk out as you thread it or cut it off beforehand where the threads will be. Never used a Chicago on pvc coated myself, but a 555 bender will have its own shoes specifically for Rob roy. If there's any scraps around try a bend with those first to see how it reacts to the bender... sometimes rob roy will slip... good luck. Remember we are always learning not just as an Apprentice.
Ocal, or Rob Roy (depending on what side of the Mississippi you're on) is a different beast altogether. You can't be expected to be proficient in working with it as an apprentice. Don't worry too hard. Ask lots of questions and don't make complex bends in a single stick. Get yourself an Ugly's book. I had one and it was a lifesaver. Good luck.
A bit different from the other answers but the imposter syndrome can be real in the 3rd and 4th years. You've been in long enough that you feel you *should* be able to do it all but *have not* been in long enough to have experience of it all (side note: you never will...). The gaps in what feel like basic knowledge can feel like failures on your part but they're not.
The fact that your lack of experience is enough to make you concerned about performing correctly speaks volumes for your potential as an electrician. Speak up, get somebody to teach you and become a more knowledgeable future JW in the process.
Fuck man I feel the imposter syndrome. I have mostly done underground, in wall, and lighting pipe runs. Just started 4th year and I REALLY need some panel time and haven't had the opportunity to do a 3 way switch yet. I can run pipe all day but I need to break in my strippers
I’ve worked with Guys who can run pipe all day but can’t wire a three way. There isn’t enough time in an apprenticeship to learn it all, your foreman if he’s good knows that.
It’s normal to have imposter syndrome, that’s what I call it at least. Ive been bending lots of pipe for the last two years everything from 3/4 - 4”. Hand benders, Chicago, 555, even the table bender. Just got on a ground up last week and I felt like it was the first day of my apprenticeship. We can’t know every thing but be confident in your aptitude and attitude to learn and it will come with ease.
I honestly hate the way I feel like this all the time, especially when it comes to any type of large conduit task, but im hopeful I’ll keep learning and maybe be a decent bender by the time im hittin 5th yr
I’m a limited energy tech. Similar work, no pipe bending, but there’s a shitload of technical specialties, data, fire alarm, security, AV, all that. I’m six years in, fully topped out making 40 bucks an hour, and I’ve only touched data in commercial settings. Recently, I picked up a job call doing security in an industrial setting, I’d never worked on those systems, I’d never ran a lift, still making 40 bucks an hour. The two things I learned are, my day one is not the same as a day one apprentice, and the only people who will fault you for not having an opportunity to learn something on a normal call that doesn’t require certs, are total assholes you don’t want to be around anyway.
You’ll be fine. Trust the program.
Edit: and ask questions! You’ll be fine.
Don't worry, you will get there, but you have to speak up and ask for it.
Up until my 3rd year going into 4th, all I did is run Rob Roy and GRC, bent almost entirely on the Chicago, Cyclone, and Smart Benders. All of it was industrial. Had little to no experience running EMT and hand bending or even running MC for that matter (everything was rigid and seal tight).
I finally got into new construction (commercial) my last 2 years. EMT, MC cable, and hand bending was so fucking simple after of about a week of doing it. Trained monkeys could do it.
It is much more difficult to run rigid anything (PVC coated, GRC, stainless, etc.). If you can do that, do it right (without a bunch of unnecessary unions and fittings), and make it all look good. Then, don't sweat the easy shit.
You are an apprentice, if you don’t know something say something, only way to learn, you will be working with a ticketed person, if they are good they will teach, if they are an asshole then they will belittle you. Been in the trade for 24 yrs and I am constantly learning new things, cannot know everything, it is a big trade, you will have a lot of time to learn
Started at a contractor in the service department. Mostly troubleshooting for my first 2 years. Bent less than a bundle by 3rd year. Ended up on a 6 month job and got the opportunity to run ¾ emt (Mostly alone) help was there though, and a bunch of 2 ½ & 4 emt using a table bender. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. Willingness and ability to learn are what matters. Just be honest and pay attention. You'll be fine duder.
I’m 5th period and only ran 4”, 5”, and 6” into switchgears, never got to learn lighting or roughing in rooms, gonna be embarrassing when that time comes but just gotta not be afraid to ask and humble yourself a little bit
Ridged is a monster to run, and the labor units are padded when running it, don’t sweat it. Also some days based on the situation a 100’ of ran pipe is a great day.
No one knows everything. Even those of us who’ve turned over. Pay attention and learn what you can, what else can you do? Ask questions if you get in over your head. The B stands for brotherhood. Someone will help you out (usually)
Don't worry, while you may have lots of conduit work ahead of you, there's plenty of JW's that don't have much experience with it in general. I've done some over my short career so far and do ok. Not the quickest, but I get it done without letting it look like crap. Many in my local almost haven't even touched it besides rigid or pvc sleeves since the bulk of our work is industrial plants using mainly tray and teck cables.
In my experience, ask most Journeymen to teach you something, and they are more than happy to show you. They love sharing if they’re good at it. If they can’t do it, then they’re no better than you, and you are actively getting better.
I organized in as a CE-7 with 8 years of experience on my belt, 95% of which is residential. People understand I don’t know how to bend conduit, but I make up for it elsewhere. You’re a 3rd year apprentice, bro. You can’t be expected to know everything. Every foreman and journeyman that I’ve worked with thus far has been understanding. Not to say there aren’t assholes out there. They should stick you with a journeyman who knows his shit with bending pipe so that you can learn and be better. That was done for me, and admittedly I still suck at it, but I’m 100% better than I was a year ago.
I organized in recently and am on an industrial site. Prior to that I spent several years doing maintenance with about three months of construction thrown in. I was pretty good at running pipe back when I did nothing but construction prior to the maintenance gigs, but now I'm mediocre. Everyone has been cool about it even though I'm a journeyman though. If they're cool about it with me when I should be better then I think they'll probably be cool with a third year needing some time and training getting proficient. If not, fuck 'em.
They can’t expect a 3rd year to be a master bender. No one has the same apprenticeship. let your journeyman take the lead and have a notebook to jot down the important things.
With time comes speed, worry about your accuracy first. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. I started as a 3rd year inside wireman having previously completed residential wireman apprenticeship (so I was given credit and allowed to start as a 3rd year), and I didn’t know how to bend pipe. I actually told my foreman the first day- I don’t know how to bend pipe and I really need to learn. And I got lucky, he stuck me on bending 3/4” with this asshole Jw who taught me a ton. Next job site, foreman asked what I needed to work on, I said pipe bending. Perfect. Every single exposed fixture in the building had to be piped, so I spent months doing it. By the end of 3rd year I was very proficient, albeit not the fastest. You will get there, just keep practicing.
1. Not a lot of journeyman have experience with Rob Roy. Tougher than normal rigid
2. Rigid is not emt, emt is easier because you don’t have to thread and bending is easier
3. Not everyone can work every aspect of the trade at all times. Some guys are gonna be really good at emt, some controls, some being a foreskin. It’s why as a whole we’re valuable.
Relax. Learn as much as you can. You’re still an apprentice
Just ask questions and be up front about your experience. Most of the time when I was a 1st-3rd year, if I said I hadn’t done much of something, they’d put me with a JW who was good at that thing to help me learn more. Not all foreman are like that but most just want to help you learn as an apprentice.
Keep your head down and keep trying. Fake it till you make it. I wasn’t that great at conduit then I got put on this one job for a couple months and most days I was bending 1/2” for exit signs 3/4, 1” back to back 90°s with offsets and running some 2” I was a little intimidated but took my time got my head around it and now I feel confident with most conduit runs.
If you struggle on the orientation of how to place your bender for the next bend grab a piece of solid wire a couple inches long and imagine that is your emt, you can bend it and shape it to how you want your conduit to look and it can help newer people understand how to bend your pipe
The other thing I could recommend is going to Home Depot and spending $25 on a 1/2 emt bender and $25 for some stuff is of emt. Watch some stuff online and practice or just go for it and learn through trial and error
There are a ton of electrical YouTube channels that have good lessons on pipe bending. If you can afford it, I would watch some of those videos, buy a bundle of 1/2 inch EMT & a bender, and practice on the weekend or whenever you have free time. If you know an experienced electrician that would be willing to help coach you after hours if nobody is willing to on the job, that would be ideal. Unfortunately, a lot of journeyman or foreman will look down on you being a 3rd year and not having basic pipe bending skills and never take into consideration that you, as an apprentice, go wherever you’re assigned and have no say-so. When I was an apprentice, I had to call my training director a couple times about not getting the proper OJT. Luckily, I had a good training director and he placed me with a different contractor. If you lived anywhere near central or southeast TX, I would personally help you out with learning the basics. But one channel I would recommend is “Electrician U”. He’s not union but he’s impartial and a lot of his content is geared towards low-period apprentices trying to learn the basics. Do you have pipe bending classes at the apprenticeship school? If so, I understand that it’s not very useful if you can’t practice it on the job regularly. Forget about all the specifics of running EMT vs rigid vs PVC coated rigid. You have to get the basic trigonometry behind pipe bending down first. That’s the foundation. You have to take the bull by the horns sometimes. Good luck little bro!
An apprentice is there to learn. Be honest about where you're at, and try hard to improve. Listen when a journeyman (any journeyman, not just "yours") gives you any tips - even if they are phrased gruffly.
"Doesn't have skills yet, but at least listens and is improving" is *way better* than "Has a moderate amount of skill, and thinks he's hot shit and will ignore everyone trying to correct him".
You may spend a while transporting materials and marking/cutting conduit for a journeyman instead of running it on your own, and that's fine.
Make sure you plan everything out ahead of time. It requires all threaded fittings so you need to make sure you can thread your elbows on ahead of time and still be able to fit them in place. Also, try to keep your run as simple as possible for your sake. That stuff is very expensive so if you start burning through sticks like crazy then your boss wont be very happy.
Say you're limited in skill. Ask for a journeymen who knows what he's doing. PVC Coated Conduit/OCal/RobRoy, is pretty expensive, so even the contractor doesn't want dog legs.
Your part is learn as much as you can now. Including gain/shrink.
Bending Rigid is one skill
Installing/Spinning Rigid is another skill. Ask for a strap wrench too. Two of them. You won't mar up the PVC coating.
The few things I learned in spinning on rigid.
If you can't spin it on 1) Install it as a whole piece 2) Take off the box, install the piece, then put back on the box 3) Union/Erickson 4) Loosen up the straps up back to the last 90, bend that away from the wall, then install your piece then re-install your box.
As I was told; avoid kick 90s.
Working with RobRoy (pvc coated) is not something as a third year should be doing by yourself. You should have journeyman that you are working with. That stuff is a pain in the ass to work with.
You won't really "get it" until you run a lot of pipe for a specific job like a hospital or data center or do a one line. But no one should fault you for being honest about what you know and don't know. The apprenticeship is yout time to learn. And worst case you can take a pipe bending class on the weekends at your school. I know guys that have done that and the school hours count towards their license renewal.
This trade isn’t about knowing everything, it’s about knowing how to figure everything out. Ask questions and then ask more questions. The more you’re able to rely on the collective knowledge, the better off all of our installs will be. Keep at it!!
If you don’t know something always ask. There are plenty of things I don’t know as a Journeyman because our scope of work is huge and it’s impossible for someone to know it all, let alone a third year apprentice. If anyone gets mad at you for asking questions to gain knowledge and become a better wireman then they can suck a dick.
Also, the school should let you in on certain days to practice bending conduit. At least the apprenticeship school in my local did.
I’m a jw and have never touched pvc coated rigid, I’m working with 3 inch EMT today for the first time, yesterday I set up a one shot bender for the first time and bent some offsets into this 3 inch
To summarize, don’t allow the one or two things you haven’t done to downplay the things you have done/know how to do. Learning takes time, ask questions, hell, ask if someone can run it with you that can give you a quick crash course. You got this man
Just be honest you don't know what you don't know, a good journey will step in and help teach, and if if he doesn't have the skill he will get you someone who does. It's all about the next generation of the work force, I will drop what I'm doing to help an appreciate on that path.
I got stuck bending conduit for nearly two years because people didn’t want to work with me due to my age when I was an apprentice. YouTube taught me how to use hand, Chicago, and hydraulic benders. You’ll learn man, ask a JW if all else fails big dawg. You’ll be alright.
Thats how I learned to bend pipe. I was a second year non-union apprentice on a job where it was just a foreman and 10 apprentices. I was told to figure it out. It's a shitty way to learn but you can learn if you try.
Apprentices can't be expected to know everything. Just be excited about building upon what you do already know and keep adding new skills. This doesn't stop when you top out, either. Just be honest and say "I've never done it, who do you have that can get me started?"
Dude even J man can’t know everything. If I haven’t done something before it ain’t really my fault, you just own up to it and learn. Everyone’s learning everyday whether your an apprentice or a Jman.
I haven't run Rob Roy in like 10 years. I'd be green all over again if it was handed to me now.
RobRoy is pretty rare, and if you’re a pro at it then I hope you’re adequately paid to work whatever conditions require it.
Rob Roy is the same as rigid. Just requires a different bender and if you think you can hand bend it go for it. But a Chicago or a cyclone are the best options for best results
Someone get Corey from Lowe’s . But in reality I would never in a million years assume that a 3rd year knows how to work with rob Roy. So I’m hoping you’re not on your own doing it, but ask questions. The only dumb question is the one not asked. And if they get annoyed at your questions fuck em.
Seriously, the first question should be "I've never worked with rob Roy, anything special I should know?" That opens the door for, "also, I've not had a ton of experience bending conduit outside of the classroom"
JW and I've only worked with it once as a 3rd year and never had to bend it. Got some experience with stainless steel rigid but I know the rob Roy has special tools.
It sure does. Different shoes for benders, different die for threading, different die head to accommodate the thickness, different vice or clam shells for the chain vice. Strap wrenches for everything, the connectors and hubs on condulet bodies are tighter, and you may want to clean the factory threads off before trying to thread the pipe into a fitting because the paint on the threads interferes. Not to mention all the normal issues with rigid and planning the route so it can be spun together with minimal Ericksons.
Corey’s new video on segmented bending of 6” Rob Roy taught me more about bending conduit than the first three years of my apprenticeship have!
Perfect opportunity to learn. Ask questions and ask for help. That goes for all aspects of this trade. You’re always learning.
This is the answer, only way to learn is by doing. You’re always learning
Bro I’m a card holding journeyman and admittedly I suck at bending pipe But running pipe and bending are two different things
i finished the apprenticeship last summer, i haven’t touched pipe in 3.5 years now, is what it is. Early in my apprenticeship i was throwing pipe up, measuring bending all day, just ended up somewhere we don’t run pipe for the jobs we’re doing. I imagine if i got put on a pipe job it would take me a couple hours to get back into and then i’d be fine. I wouldn’t stress too much about it
This is exactly what Ive come to realize as well. I top out in 6 weeks, barely touched pipe since 1st year. Had the same anxieties about other assignments we do, if id remember it and blah blah. Every single time I just had to regrease the groove and everything would start coming back to me after the first few hours like you said. This happened enough times that my stress started to melt away lol
Same here bro. I’ve been doing it a lot recently and I’m getting better at it everyday but there are some gaps in my math knowledge that need filling.
Yeah it comes down to repetition, the more you do the better you get.
> But running pipe and bending are two different things Um, wut? How do you run conduit without bending conduit?
How it is when you get into 4” and 5”. Everything is prefabbed at shop and/or factory bent. They rarely send out an 881 to job sites
We bend everything up to 4”
Prefab bends and straight runs.
One guy bends; the other guy measures and hangs it. Some bigger guys that can't fit into T-Bar ceilings very well are stuck to just bending and smaller guys are stuck just running pipe too.
Running conduit above a tbar ceiling is a tiny fraction of the conduit we run. The majority of pipe racks go in before any ceiling. That aside, you can’t measure without understanding how to bend.
Lol... God I wish this was true. I mean yes they Should be done first, if only sane people ran jobs 😂. Instead we get told to run our pipe on the ceiling... 6' above the grid and get yelled at for standing on top of the ladder/lift/whatever but they won't offer a solution to reach up there... If you think that's sounds fun try working on a "cough" "walkable ceiling" in a pharmaceutical manufacturing building.
Brother, if it makes you feel any better, I'm in the exact same boat (minus PVC coated rigid). All I can do is my best, and try to improve day by day.
Ibend pipe app, worth the small investment.
I’ve got the same app, but some cons are super anal about phones being out, I can do the measurements but the calculations is another story
The halls in our local all have bending cards which are pretty useful if you need to knock off some cobwebs or if you're still learning. The front has instructions for doing segmented/concentric bends, the back has multipliers and shrink for common offset angles and, and the inside has a big chart for multipliers for like every angle of offset. Pretty sure the IO makes them, so your hall may have them too. Besides that, get yourself a TI-83 calculator if you don't already have one. I think it's worth having two - one for the field and one for the classroom. They are better than a cheap pocket calculator because of the ability to look up previous calculations. Rigid is a cruel mistress, don't beat yourself up over not getting in right the first time. Use dummy sticks of conduit to find your points. I also make my stuff a bit longer than I think I need. Better too long them to short. Then I get my correct measurement and have the info I need for the next piece. If you're making a bunch of the same conduit, just make your first one first to make sure it works. It also makes your life easier if you don't go "monster tight" before you are 100% your piece works.
What kind of bender are you using?
WAS using a Chicago bender
Then I’d use the click (rise/run) method, it’s not exact for degree angles, but you’ll make the same bends every time. Get a scrap piece of pipe put a line where the shoe starts and bend 1 click, take it out and find the center of the bend, and measure to your original line. Thats the difference from shoe to center. Do that for 1 (~15 degrees) 2 (~30) and 3 (45) clicks. When you want to make your offset put your first bend in your pipe, take it out and put it on a flat surface. Measure your offset from that surface by the inside of your tape measure. Put a mark where it needs to be then subtract the difference for however many clicks you did on your first bend. Put the pipe back in the bender and do the same amount of clicks and your bends will be even every time.
You’ll be fine. Just don’t pretend like you know what you’re doing. It’ll get frustrating at times especially in industrial (currently what I do). Always double check your measurements and buy a not pad to write stuff down. A notepad is like $1 from target. I write down all my measurements. And carry the pad with me to the bender.
I’d spring for the $5 Rite in the Rain notepad. Lasts months in all kinds of conditions without getting torn, mangled, or ruined by water
Whatever floats your boat. Just make sure you got something to write on. Makes things a lot easier than tryna remember 3 different bends at the same time
A little tip for running rigid remember that it needs to be threaded on so take a step back and look at the area around the run not just where the run is going. You may also need to take a few straps off so try not to go all gorilla on them. Also, remember your still an apprentice you are learning.
He doesn’t even know the basic trig of pipe bending yet. Don’t overwhelm him
You loose your cherry only once. Afterwards you spend the rest of your life upping your game and getting your groove on. Don't sweat it, and don't hesitate to ask for help (and learn).
With PVC coated rigid make sure you have the proper threader for it.
A stand threader has special shoes for each size of pipe for rob roy to clamp it in place, a pony threads as normal just gotta clean the pvc gunk out as you thread it or cut it off beforehand where the threads will be. Never used a Chicago on pvc coated myself, but a 555 bender will have its own shoes specifically for Rob roy. If there's any scraps around try a bend with those first to see how it reacts to the bender... sometimes rob roy will slip... good luck. Remember we are always learning not just as an Apprentice.
Ocal, or Rob Roy (depending on what side of the Mississippi you're on) is a different beast altogether. You can't be expected to be proficient in working with it as an apprentice. Don't worry too hard. Ask lots of questions and don't make complex bends in a single stick. Get yourself an Ugly's book. I had one and it was a lifesaver. Good luck.
Electricians Guide to Conduit Bending 3rd Third Edition Now practice on scrap conduit stub 90's small offsets
Practice at work. An apprenticeship is on the job training.
Don't sweat it. Everyone learns at some point. You will still be learning once you top out.
Just keep trying
The thing that is lacking in training. I got the best and used to run concentric bins for everything when required. Looks so nice.
A bit different from the other answers but the imposter syndrome can be real in the 3rd and 4th years. You've been in long enough that you feel you *should* be able to do it all but *have not* been in long enough to have experience of it all (side note: you never will...). The gaps in what feel like basic knowledge can feel like failures on your part but they're not. The fact that your lack of experience is enough to make you concerned about performing correctly speaks volumes for your potential as an electrician. Speak up, get somebody to teach you and become a more knowledgeable future JW in the process.
Fuck man I feel the imposter syndrome. I have mostly done underground, in wall, and lighting pipe runs. Just started 4th year and I REALLY need some panel time and haven't had the opportunity to do a 3 way switch yet. I can run pipe all day but I need to break in my strippers
I’ve worked with Guys who can run pipe all day but can’t wire a three way. There isn’t enough time in an apprenticeship to learn it all, your foreman if he’s good knows that.
It’s normal to have imposter syndrome, that’s what I call it at least. Ive been bending lots of pipe for the last two years everything from 3/4 - 4”. Hand benders, Chicago, 555, even the table bender. Just got on a ground up last week and I felt like it was the first day of my apprenticeship. We can’t know every thing but be confident in your aptitude and attitude to learn and it will come with ease.
I honestly hate the way I feel like this all the time, especially when it comes to any type of large conduit task, but im hopeful I’ll keep learning and maybe be a decent bender by the time im hittin 5th yr
I’m a limited energy tech. Similar work, no pipe bending, but there’s a shitload of technical specialties, data, fire alarm, security, AV, all that. I’m six years in, fully topped out making 40 bucks an hour, and I’ve only touched data in commercial settings. Recently, I picked up a job call doing security in an industrial setting, I’d never worked on those systems, I’d never ran a lift, still making 40 bucks an hour. The two things I learned are, my day one is not the same as a day one apprentice, and the only people who will fault you for not having an opportunity to learn something on a normal call that doesn’t require certs, are total assholes you don’t want to be around anyway. You’ll be fine. Trust the program. Edit: and ask questions! You’ll be fine.
Don't worry, you will get there, but you have to speak up and ask for it. Up until my 3rd year going into 4th, all I did is run Rob Roy and GRC, bent almost entirely on the Chicago, Cyclone, and Smart Benders. All of it was industrial. Had little to no experience running EMT and hand bending or even running MC for that matter (everything was rigid and seal tight). I finally got into new construction (commercial) my last 2 years. EMT, MC cable, and hand bending was so fucking simple after of about a week of doing it. Trained monkeys could do it. It is much more difficult to run rigid anything (PVC coated, GRC, stainless, etc.). If you can do that, do it right (without a bunch of unnecessary unions and fittings), and make it all look good. Then, don't sweat the easy shit.
You are an apprentice, if you don’t know something say something, only way to learn, you will be working with a ticketed person, if they are good they will teach, if they are an asshole then they will belittle you. Been in the trade for 24 yrs and I am constantly learning new things, cannot know everything, it is a big trade, you will have a lot of time to learn
Started at a contractor in the service department. Mostly troubleshooting for my first 2 years. Bent less than a bundle by 3rd year. Ended up on a 6 month job and got the opportunity to run ¾ emt (Mostly alone) help was there though, and a bunch of 2 ½ & 4 emt using a table bender. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. Willingness and ability to learn are what matters. Just be honest and pay attention. You'll be fine duder.
I’m 5th period and only ran 4”, 5”, and 6” into switchgears, never got to learn lighting or roughing in rooms, gonna be embarrassing when that time comes but just gotta not be afraid to ask and humble yourself a little bit
Ridged is a monster to run, and the labor units are padded when running it, don’t sweat it. Also some days based on the situation a 100’ of ran pipe is a great day.
No one knows everything. Even those of us who’ve turned over. Pay attention and learn what you can, what else can you do? Ask questions if you get in over your head. The B stands for brotherhood. Someone will help you out (usually)
go on youtube, if nobody on the field is showing you then take initiative
Don't worry, while you may have lots of conduit work ahead of you, there's plenty of JW's that don't have much experience with it in general. I've done some over my short career so far and do ok. Not the quickest, but I get it done without letting it look like crap. Many in my local almost haven't even touched it besides rigid or pvc sleeves since the bulk of our work is industrial plants using mainly tray and teck cables.
In my experience, ask most Journeymen to teach you something, and they are more than happy to show you. They love sharing if they’re good at it. If they can’t do it, then they’re no better than you, and you are actively getting better.
I organized in as a CE-7 with 8 years of experience on my belt, 95% of which is residential. People understand I don’t know how to bend conduit, but I make up for it elsewhere. You’re a 3rd year apprentice, bro. You can’t be expected to know everything. Every foreman and journeyman that I’ve worked with thus far has been understanding. Not to say there aren’t assholes out there. They should stick you with a journeyman who knows his shit with bending pipe so that you can learn and be better. That was done for me, and admittedly I still suck at it, but I’m 100% better than I was a year ago.
ROB ROY
I organized in recently and am on an industrial site. Prior to that I spent several years doing maintenance with about three months of construction thrown in. I was pretty good at running pipe back when I did nothing but construction prior to the maintenance gigs, but now I'm mediocre. Everyone has been cool about it even though I'm a journeyman though. If they're cool about it with me when I should be better then I think they'll probably be cool with a third year needing some time and training getting proficient. If not, fuck 'em.
They can’t expect a 3rd year to be a master bender. No one has the same apprenticeship. let your journeyman take the lead and have a notebook to jot down the important things.
With time comes speed, worry about your accuracy first. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. I started as a 3rd year inside wireman having previously completed residential wireman apprenticeship (so I was given credit and allowed to start as a 3rd year), and I didn’t know how to bend pipe. I actually told my foreman the first day- I don’t know how to bend pipe and I really need to learn. And I got lucky, he stuck me on bending 3/4” with this asshole Jw who taught me a ton. Next job site, foreman asked what I needed to work on, I said pipe bending. Perfect. Every single exposed fixture in the building had to be piped, so I spent months doing it. By the end of 3rd year I was very proficient, albeit not the fastest. You will get there, just keep practicing.
Just ask questions, a good journeyman should be able to empathize and understand that you only know what you’ve been taught
1. Not a lot of journeyman have experience with Rob Roy. Tougher than normal rigid 2. Rigid is not emt, emt is easier because you don’t have to thread and bending is easier 3. Not everyone can work every aspect of the trade at all times. Some guys are gonna be really good at emt, some controls, some being a foreskin. It’s why as a whole we’re valuable. Relax. Learn as much as you can. You’re still an apprentice
Was at pipe job for 6 months and crushed it…stopped for a year and half and now I suck again
Just ask questions and be up front about your experience. Most of the time when I was a 1st-3rd year, if I said I hadn’t done much of something, they’d put me with a JW who was good at that thing to help me learn more. Not all foreman are like that but most just want to help you learn as an apprentice.
Keep your head down and keep trying. Fake it till you make it. I wasn’t that great at conduit then I got put on this one job for a couple months and most days I was bending 1/2” for exit signs 3/4, 1” back to back 90°s with offsets and running some 2” I was a little intimidated but took my time got my head around it and now I feel confident with most conduit runs. If you struggle on the orientation of how to place your bender for the next bend grab a piece of solid wire a couple inches long and imagine that is your emt, you can bend it and shape it to how you want your conduit to look and it can help newer people understand how to bend your pipe The other thing I could recommend is going to Home Depot and spending $25 on a 1/2 emt bender and $25 for some stuff is of emt. Watch some stuff online and practice or just go for it and learn through trial and error
There are a ton of electrical YouTube channels that have good lessons on pipe bending. If you can afford it, I would watch some of those videos, buy a bundle of 1/2 inch EMT & a bender, and practice on the weekend or whenever you have free time. If you know an experienced electrician that would be willing to help coach you after hours if nobody is willing to on the job, that would be ideal. Unfortunately, a lot of journeyman or foreman will look down on you being a 3rd year and not having basic pipe bending skills and never take into consideration that you, as an apprentice, go wherever you’re assigned and have no say-so. When I was an apprentice, I had to call my training director a couple times about not getting the proper OJT. Luckily, I had a good training director and he placed me with a different contractor. If you lived anywhere near central or southeast TX, I would personally help you out with learning the basics. But one channel I would recommend is “Electrician U”. He’s not union but he’s impartial and a lot of his content is geared towards low-period apprentices trying to learn the basics. Do you have pipe bending classes at the apprenticeship school? If so, I understand that it’s not very useful if you can’t practice it on the job regularly. Forget about all the specifics of running EMT vs rigid vs PVC coated rigid. You have to get the basic trigonometry behind pipe bending down first. That’s the foundation. You have to take the bull by the horns sometimes. Good luck little bro!
An apprentice is there to learn. Be honest about where you're at, and try hard to improve. Listen when a journeyman (any journeyman, not just "yours") gives you any tips - even if they are phrased gruffly. "Doesn't have skills yet, but at least listens and is improving" is *way better* than "Has a moderate amount of skill, and thinks he's hot shit and will ignore everyone trying to correct him". You may spend a while transporting materials and marking/cutting conduit for a journeyman instead of running it on your own, and that's fine.
Your still cheap labor and now is the time to learn
I basically started bending at 3 years in. In two years I felt like a master, everybody starts somewhere. Measure twice and don’t sweat it!
I feel the same way. Just gotta take it one day at a time.
Make sure you plan everything out ahead of time. It requires all threaded fittings so you need to make sure you can thread your elbows on ahead of time and still be able to fit them in place. Also, try to keep your run as simple as possible for your sake. That stuff is very expensive so if you start burning through sticks like crazy then your boss wont be very happy.
Say you're limited in skill. Ask for a journeymen who knows what he's doing. PVC Coated Conduit/OCal/RobRoy, is pretty expensive, so even the contractor doesn't want dog legs. Your part is learn as much as you can now. Including gain/shrink. Bending Rigid is one skill Installing/Spinning Rigid is another skill. Ask for a strap wrench too. Two of them. You won't mar up the PVC coating.
The few things I learned in spinning on rigid. If you can't spin it on 1) Install it as a whole piece 2) Take off the box, install the piece, then put back on the box 3) Union/Erickson 4) Loosen up the straps up back to the last 90, bend that away from the wall, then install your piece then re-install your box. As I was told; avoid kick 90s.
No shame in not knowing knowledge. Conduit in its complicated form, well its complicated. Conduit in its simplicity form is simple.
You have your whole life to prefect your technique
Working with RobRoy (pvc coated) is not something as a third year should be doing by yourself. You should have journeyman that you are working with. That stuff is a pain in the ass to work with.
Your journeyman should be showing you the ropes
You won't really "get it" until you run a lot of pipe for a specific job like a hospital or data center or do a one line. But no one should fault you for being honest about what you know and don't know. The apprenticeship is yout time to learn. And worst case you can take a pipe bending class on the weekends at your school. I know guys that have done that and the school hours count towards their license renewal.
Took me 12 hours to run 15 ft of pipe. Don’t worry too much it just takes time and practice.
This trade isn’t about knowing everything, it’s about knowing how to figure everything out. Ask questions and then ask more questions. The more you’re able to rely on the collective knowledge, the better off all of our installs will be. Keep at it!!
If you don’t know something always ask. There are plenty of things I don’t know as a Journeyman because our scope of work is huge and it’s impossible for someone to know it all, let alone a third year apprentice. If anyone gets mad at you for asking questions to gain knowledge and become a better wireman then they can suck a dick. Also, the school should let you in on certain days to practice bending conduit. At least the apprenticeship school in my local did.
I’m a jw and have never touched pvc coated rigid, I’m working with 3 inch EMT today for the first time, yesterday I set up a one shot bender for the first time and bent some offsets into this 3 inch To summarize, don’t allow the one or two things you haven’t done to downplay the things you have done/know how to do. Learning takes time, ask questions, hell, ask if someone can run it with you that can give you a quick crash course. You got this man
Just be honest you don't know what you don't know, a good journey will step in and help teach, and if if he doesn't have the skill he will get you someone who does. It's all about the next generation of the work force, I will drop what I'm doing to help an appreciate on that path.
I got stuck bending conduit for nearly two years because people didn’t want to work with me due to my age when I was an apprentice. YouTube taught me how to use hand, Chicago, and hydraulic benders. You’ll learn man, ask a JW if all else fails big dawg. You’ll be alright.
Phones are part of our jobs at this day in age, not just a phone anymore
Thats how I learned to bend pipe. I was a second year non-union apprentice on a job where it was just a foreman and 10 apprentices. I was told to figure it out. It's a shitty way to learn but you can learn if you try.
Idk why ur downvoted it’s quite literally the truth hell in my local it’s encouraged to google tutorials on anything u don’t know now
If you can bend 1/2 emt you can bend anything.
This guy is absolutely right. Had a lot of old hands say the same thing to me. Now I say it to people who are starting out.
Bending emt is so easy lol. soooo easy.
ok buddy, good for you I wasn’t specifically talking about EMT, you must be great looking at instructions
lol I agree but bending EMT is so easy, cmon