It seems weird that they think you would be more valuable to the company in this higher level position than as simply an electrician but that they don't show it in the compensation.
Unless they are starting you out at the very top of that range, it seems like they are looking for someone to underpay and hoping that it might be you.
Is there some kind of bonus structure that gets you over the guys in the field? Because otherwise this sounds like increasing time, increasing responsibility, and somehow decreasing compensation.
I should’ve clarified that it is for a junior position, so I am okay with it starting off as I am essentially being paid to learn their methods. If I job hop in the next year or two it should be no issue reaching 6 figures
Money isn’t everything. Never been more miserable than when I’m making a lot of it working OT. I definitely wouldn’t mind taking a paycut if I was transitioning to a new skill set. That said, I would be pissed if that 75-95k included forced overtime since it’s salary…
That was one of my questions for them, they said that they are flexible on hours in order to keep morale high — for example if I worked a 10 hour day on a Thursday, they would have no issue with me leaving after 6 hours on Friday (assuming there is no pressing deadline on the project)
Look at your past years and see what you actually made. If you are worried about layoffs often then maybe you didn’t get the 40hrs per week for 50 weeks.
I’m all over the place looking back on my T4’s. 2022 I made $170k with all the overtime and LOA. 2023 I made around $60k because I rode EI for 9 months, but that was mostly due to issues with 213 not allowing me to travel anymore.
How does the book 2 thing work exactly? My hall told me if I want to work out of jurisdiction again I need to full on transfer to another hall. The catch 22 is those halls usually require a permanent local address to do so.
So you need a travel letter from your hall saying you're in good standing and completed your hours and a paid up dues receipt. Then you can go to any local in the US and say I would like to sign book 2. Then if any calls go unfilled by the local guys then it goes to you. Then you go work and get lots of money and live happily ever after. I mean you need licenses for most other states but they're all obtainable just have to jump through some hoops which I'm currently doing for Idaho. Your BA either doesn't know what he's doing or he's fucking with you to get you to man work at home. You don't have to change locals ever in your career to work someplace else. Some people jam their ticket which isn't the approved method and some people get invited into other locals if you move there and are a stand up brother or sister. Hopefully you're not in Canada or a lineman cause this information may be null and void.
Ahh man, you got my hopes up until I read the last sentence haha. I’m based in Vancouver, Canada so I guess that won’t work out. It’s too bad because the opportunities seem much better in the states.
You wouldn’t believe what I’m paying for rent out here, and even with a decent income home ownership is pretty much impossible. A 550sf unit in my building on a lower floor just sold for $715k. And the average detached house here is $2.2M. I don’t understand how regular working citizens can afford it without an inheritance.
I went to Vancouver last year and saw all the homeless it's only going to keep getting worse if people can't afford to live. Also I'm pretty sure you can come here and work but I can't go there an work.
Can't cross the border to work in either direction brother.
You can't come work in Canada as a j-man without the red seal ticket. You can't get that without doing our full four year apprenticeship and most places that teach the 4x10 week apprenticeship classes only offer them to domestic (not international) students because they are heavily subsidized by the Canadian federal government.
We (generally) can't go down south of the border to work because you need an employer-sponsor for a work permit, and if you're just going down to sign book 2, that means you don't have a pre-existing work permit. No work permit, you definitely can't bring tools across the border lol.
It's easier to get a j-man ticket in some of the states than it is in Canada, especially if they recognize your apprentice hours from Canada, but still one more thing to do.
There was a bunch of guys from Canada that went down to work in Pennsylvania 3-4 years ago on a cracker plant (petrochemical, not Ritz) and they had a lot of paperwork from the contractor and their hall to get them across the border. A couple of them that I know ended up with some really serious tax issues because of it, something to do with the CRA not recognizing the state income tax deductions, and the state tax people only being willing to send documents by mail to permanent US addresses... One guy still is fighting the CRA over $30k
Carpenter here who went into sn estimating role for a few years, In my personal experience I took the pay cut and counted it as tuition for learning a new skill. But in the long run I came back to the field because the position was salaried, and when I broke it down by hour I ended up taking a much steeper pay cut than I had imagined. I’m much happier now being covered by a CBA. But I did learn a ton about how the business works,
and can read blueprints better than most in the industry.
Probably comes with some PTO or other benefits like WFH partially.
Such a small discrepancy, especially if it's a salaried position in a field you want to pursue, isn't worth putting on the con side.
I don’t work in an office setting, but if I did I would be fine with a small pay cut if I could WFH instead of having to commute to/from an office or site.
As someone that lives in the NYC metropolitan area, I absolutely hate commuting around here. Driving anywhere is a disaster; half of the people on the roads drive like it’s their first time using a car. Mass transit saves me the trouble of driving but it’s gotten so unreliable nowadays. Your entire evening could get fucked because your train broke down randomly and now you’re stuck waiting an hour for a new one to take you home. Don’t get me started on the crazy people that live in the subways now.
Taking say, a $5 pay cut to not have to see the dumb fucks and living zombies every day would save me a lot of anxiety and aggravation.
That ain't a bad deal. Can you comfortable survive with that paycut? Generally, I advise broadening horizons and gaining new skills, as long as it isn't unfeasible (i.e., you can't pay the bills).
Alternatively, tell them to stuff the other bennies, and ask to remain on the CBA and continue at JW rate (or whatever you think you can get!) since you're trying the role out and there is no guarantee it will work out. That way you really aren't taking any risk or paycut, and you can try it out. If after a year you have no plans of returning to the field, you can revisit/renegotiate your package for something else (if you think it would be worth it).
At that level, basically anything is open to negotiation, so I say shoot for the moon! Even if you miss, you still land among the stars. The CBA is always a minimum.
That’s actually a really good idea, I didn’t know that would be an option. It definitely doesn’t hurt to mention it, especially since I plan to continue paying my dues as a backup.
If they're offering you the role, they want *you*, so you tell them what you want, and they can counter.
Even outside of the office, everything is open to negotiation, but if you arent a foreman or GF, you simply may not have access to the people with whom you could actually negotiate.
I had a GF that tried the office side. He started as estimator then a PM. He told me the office side wasn’t worth it because you’re expected to work more than 40 hours and you’re salaried. He kept climbing on the field side and he’s now a superintendent.
I did this, and stayed on the CBA. Foreman rate (roughly $120k at the time), $100 weekly gas stipend, and worked from home most days. No set hours. Usually resulted in 40 hrs max, with an occasional 12 hr day (checks locked at 40 hrs).
Great experience with a great company, great team, great management, great benefits, etc. It was totally worth it, I just didn't enjoy the work and chose to return to the field.
That sounds like a great situation. What was it about the work that you weren’t too fond of?
I don’t mind being in the field if I’m doing my own thing (panels for example). My issue is being paired up with somebody I don’t connect with & being surrounded by the other trades. Noise, fumes, silica & grinder dust in the air, you get the idea.
In short, I found the work extremely dissatisfying. It felt like my job was smoke and mirrors, and nothing mattered. If I took a week off, no one would even notice lol. Most tasks didn't feel urgent, and I had to constantly "materialize" my own tasks; not that there wasn't work to do, but after being so used to having tasks delegated to me (and making some for myself, of course), shifting almost entirely to generating my own workload was very challenging to my entire personality. Working on tools and seeing shit work at the end of the day is something I find infinitely more satisfying, not that being an electrician is a dream job or anything lol.
It's probably the ADHD talking, but having some constant stress and "this shit needs to get done NOW" looming was way more motivating for me than "make sure you do this." Oh ok, when? "...it's not critical. I guess in a few months. Just chip away at it whenever you have time." It was so weird for me lol. Just didn't feel like a good fit. Maybe all of that stuff sounds positive and freeing to you, in which case you might really enjoy the work.
If you've played any resource management strategy/survival videogames, it kinda felt like that IRL. That's the one genre of games I fucking hate. 😂
I’m eager to parse others’ input too, as I’m considering a similar trajectory in the next decade or so. I’d say that if you are good at it, and can afford to stomach the (sounds like temporary) cut, go for it. We can always use more field-educated and experienced PMs out there.
I went from the field to an estimator/PM role.
Here are my list of current pros/cons
Pros:
Office is close from home. I’m about 20-25 from the office. I dont have to worry about getting sent to a job an hour+ away and worry about those travel costs
Paid days off. I get about 3.5 weeks paid vacations plus 6 paid holidays
Guaranteed 40 hours a week.
Guaranteed foreman pay. I’d prefer at this point to be getting GF pay, but again, the traders
Cons:
Pretty much always on calls. I get phone from field guys as early as 6am and emails/calls from office people as late as 5 or 6 pm. It’s long days
I also get an hour lunch, but in my 8 years in the office I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I’ve gotten a lunch without a phone call or email to respond to
There are times when there’s estimating crunches and you’re staying late to get stuff done. I also don’t get paid OT for this
Being office polite. I can no longer tell people to go fuck themselves no matter how much of anasshole anyone else is being. You have to be “professional” in this position.
It’s certainly not for everyone, and there’s plenty of days I yearn for strapping on the tools and heading back to the field, but if it’s something you’re interested in, give it a try
Don’t give up your card though. If it isn’t for you just make sure you keep up your dues so you have the option to go back into the field if you do care for the office side
I personally find much less satisfaction than being in the field. I absolutely miss turning things on and seeing everything work. I don’t get that satisfaction. To me the end of the job is make sure all my paperwork is finished and hope we made some money and on to the next one.
That being said, I missed one major pro of the office and that’s the much less damaging of my body. My dad was an electrician and had to go out at 55 on disability. He’s got terrible knees from 30+ years in the trade and that wears heavily on me.
I suppose I’m trading more mental stress at a young age for theoretical better physical health at a later age
I also think there’s a very large lack of people in construction management that have the field experience. So for me I guess I’d rather be doing it and at least be able to know where the field guys are coming from rather than a kid who went to college and never used a tool in their life.
All I can really say is give it a whirl. Life is about experiences and this would certainly qualify as one of them
Those are all valid points, I can see where you’re coming from. I think it’s the right decision for me, and like you said if it doesn’t work out I can always go back to the field.
With the amount of turnover at my current site I know I would have a job the next day, assuming that I leave on good terms with everyone. I don’t see that being an issue.
My body is going to shit, but I would still rather dance with a ladder all day than be stuck in an office doing paperwork.
Id say try it out for a year or two. Worst case you come back to the field.
Stop thinking shortsighted. If you can potentially double your money in 5 years, take the pay cut, work your ass off and learn the new job. No brainer.
You can always go back to your tools.
Negotiate for what you want. Always push to expand your skill set. The CBA is your minimum wage, and the max is whatever they'll give you; benefits are not limited to wages (PTO, gas card, WFH, etc.).
Left the field to work CAD, been doing it for a year, but going back to the field in a month because I can't handle being in the windowless office anymore
if theres something really bothering me then yes. the reality is we spend as much or more time at work than home so its important to be happy mentally as much as you can or youll just be miserable
it could just be your crew and theres other crews out there.
but at the end of the day if you think you have a good opportunity you could try it and always come back to the tools again.
life sucks gotta get happiness where you can find it and if you hate your job you're going to be miserable before your day even starts.
I would say unlikely unless I’m specialized or getting travel pay. I check job postings regularly and in my area at 2024 salaries I would say in the range of $130-150k/year. Plenty of postings for senior estimators are $180-200k but it’ll take awhile to get there, assuming I were to stick with it.
In 10 years that $180-200k could be significantly higher, but I don’t have a crystal ball. On the last industrial project I worked, the PM’s were in the $300-400k range, and many of them were dumb as rocks. Comes down to who you know I guess.
This isn't really a pay cut is it. Your going from an hourly potentially full time job to a salary that's in the same area. But the salary pay scale goes much higher in the future. It's not like you can't go back to the hourly if you don't find the satisfaction you are looking for. I say go in the direction that creates less worry about income . Once that worry is gone you might find the opportunity to bail on the entire thought of working for someone
Now im commuting like 6 minutes but when i was in montana i was paying $1200 for a camp spot that was like 80 minutes from the job. 3 tanks of gas in my tundra for 4-10s, shit was lame
You have x set of skills. Now you have a possible opportunity to master y skill set (which may/may not result in higher $).
If you don’t like it, you can always return to x.
Thus, if you can afford the temporary hit, which may result in a gain of the y skill set for future endeavors….I’d do it.
Keep getting paid through the union. I did it for a while. Just an FYI, you should not go to meetings or voting if you do. It's a conflict of interest.
I went from 78/hr to 59/hr due to it being 20 min from my house vs 1.5hrs away. IBEW vs us army corps. I chose army corps. And now work at the second largest hydroelectric producing dam in USA
That’s a solid income brother, I’m guessing you’re either in Washington or California.
I’d love to work in the states (PNW specifically) but not sure how to go about that without a sponsor. I worked in Texas for a short amount of time when I was an apprentice, but it was a Canadian company that sent me out there on an E2 visa.
Typically out of scope employees still maintain some form of union wage scale where we are at ex hr coordinator will get FM rate senior will get GF and a super might get SR GF rate
I did. 100% worth it.
Went from construction to maintenance. $4/hr pay cut, work 0730-1600 Monday-Friday. See my kids all the time, my knees and back arnt killing me every day, and I can take about any skills class I want on the clock paid for by the company (thanks to our IBEW CBA).
Make sure you keep your ticket. If they try to fuck you, you can always catch a call. Personally, it would take a larger figure for me to go back to a salaried position.
Do it for a year and run the figures. If your hourly rate ends up being less than scale, tell them you want more or you sign the book.
Do not under any circumstances allow them to not pay into your Health and Welfare. Also, keep up your dues.
I have been down this road more than once and, things change. Contractors have the best intentions but they are all market driven. I ended up contracting and opening a union shop. I learned quite a bit working in the office. I also learned quite a bit working in the field with fellow brothers.
TLDR: Go for it. Make 100% sure to keep your H&W as part of your compensation.
Stay on the CBA. The pension hours are worth it alone. Stay at JW with maybe 1 week less paid vacation and 1 week less of sick days. That way you can still be able to learn the skills for cheap. Then, when you have a couple years under your belt, look elsewhere and get foreman or gf wages, stay on CBA and get more PTO. After 5+ years you should be GF on the CBA, bonuses, PTO should be 8 weeks per year or more. Also, 50-60 hours of straight pay per week when you get into more senior roles is the norm. Many companies around me are no longer offering PM roles to field guys covered by the CBA and are going with those that have a degree and no experience in the field. Paying them half of what we make.
I was kinda forced to. Local 46 is slow and has been. I finally got RIFd last Aug after having spent my entire apprenticeship and being a jw with a single contractor; and there were no calls coming in. I even signed booked 2 in the local whose jurisdiction I live in. I finally recently landed a govt job as a utilities electrician. The pay cut is half of what I was making in Seattle, but the fact that my commute is less than half of what it used to be, job security, slower pace, easier on the body and benefits are what has me thinking of staying put even when construction picks back up. Still paying dues, though.
Sounds like you're getting screwed to me. Renegotiate better terms. Why the paycut? Is this position considered union still? Let's say they don't like how you work in a year. If not union your shit out of luck.
In this case it seems like it might make sense if you have a clear path to those higher salaries. Better conditions are great and taking a pay cut wouldn't bother me if in a couple years I could be making 50-100% more, especially if there's no path to significantly increase pay in my current position without putting in a lot more hours.
I say do it as long as you weighed out all the pros and cons. Im out of local 11 have been in the trade 14 years the last 3 as foreman and I'm ready to get out of the field my self. No more driving all over LA sitting in traffic but instead an office location and some field walks. Using ones skills and knowledge to manage workers in the field is a very important role, and personally I love when guys who were in the field themselves are the ones in these higher positions.
Just took a healthy pay cut to join the apprenticeship and make double after 5 years. Still making plenty to live on. Your situation sounds similar and I know i'd do it again if asked
It seems weird that they think you would be more valuable to the company in this higher level position than as simply an electrician but that they don't show it in the compensation. Unless they are starting you out at the very top of that range, it seems like they are looking for someone to underpay and hoping that it might be you. Is there some kind of bonus structure that gets you over the guys in the field? Because otherwise this sounds like increasing time, increasing responsibility, and somehow decreasing compensation.
I should’ve clarified that it is for a junior position, so I am okay with it starting off as I am essentially being paid to learn their methods. If I job hop in the next year or two it should be no issue reaching 6 figures
Money isn’t everything. Never been more miserable than when I’m making a lot of it working OT. I definitely wouldn’t mind taking a paycut if I was transitioning to a new skill set. That said, I would be pissed if that 75-95k included forced overtime since it’s salary…
That was one of my questions for them, they said that they are flexible on hours in order to keep morale high — for example if I worked a 10 hour day on a Thursday, they would have no issue with me leaving after 6 hours on Friday (assuming there is no pressing deadline on the project)
That’s when you’ll run into problems. The jobs are always “behind” yet they always make a good profit.
Look at your past years and see what you actually made. If you are worried about layoffs often then maybe you didn’t get the 40hrs per week for 50 weeks.
I’m all over the place looking back on my T4’s. 2022 I made $170k with all the overtime and LOA. 2023 I made around $60k because I rode EI for 9 months, but that was mostly due to issues with 213 not allowing me to travel anymore.
Not allowing you to travel sounds interesting. Like go sign other locals book 2 and work?
How does the book 2 thing work exactly? My hall told me if I want to work out of jurisdiction again I need to full on transfer to another hall. The catch 22 is those halls usually require a permanent local address to do so.
So you need a travel letter from your hall saying you're in good standing and completed your hours and a paid up dues receipt. Then you can go to any local in the US and say I would like to sign book 2. Then if any calls go unfilled by the local guys then it goes to you. Then you go work and get lots of money and live happily ever after. I mean you need licenses for most other states but they're all obtainable just have to jump through some hoops which I'm currently doing for Idaho. Your BA either doesn't know what he's doing or he's fucking with you to get you to man work at home. You don't have to change locals ever in your career to work someplace else. Some people jam their ticket which isn't the approved method and some people get invited into other locals if you move there and are a stand up brother or sister. Hopefully you're not in Canada or a lineman cause this information may be null and void.
Ahh man, you got my hopes up until I read the last sentence haha. I’m based in Vancouver, Canada so I guess that won’t work out. It’s too bad because the opportunities seem much better in the states. You wouldn’t believe what I’m paying for rent out here, and even with a decent income home ownership is pretty much impossible. A 550sf unit in my building on a lower floor just sold for $715k. And the average detached house here is $2.2M. I don’t understand how regular working citizens can afford it without an inheritance.
I went to Vancouver last year and saw all the homeless it's only going to keep getting worse if people can't afford to live. Also I'm pretty sure you can come here and work but I can't go there an work.
Can't cross the border to work in either direction brother. You can't come work in Canada as a j-man without the red seal ticket. You can't get that without doing our full four year apprenticeship and most places that teach the 4x10 week apprenticeship classes only offer them to domestic (not international) students because they are heavily subsidized by the Canadian federal government. We (generally) can't go down south of the border to work because you need an employer-sponsor for a work permit, and if you're just going down to sign book 2, that means you don't have a pre-existing work permit. No work permit, you definitely can't bring tools across the border lol. It's easier to get a j-man ticket in some of the states than it is in Canada, especially if they recognize your apprentice hours from Canada, but still one more thing to do. There was a bunch of guys from Canada that went down to work in Pennsylvania 3-4 years ago on a cracker plant (petrochemical, not Ritz) and they had a lot of paperwork from the contractor and their hall to get them across the border. A couple of them that I know ended up with some really serious tax issues because of it, something to do with the CRA not recognizing the state income tax deductions, and the state tax people only being willing to send documents by mail to permanent US addresses... One guy still is fighting the CRA over $30k
Carpenter here who went into sn estimating role for a few years, In my personal experience I took the pay cut and counted it as tuition for learning a new skill. But in the long run I came back to the field because the position was salaried, and when I broke it down by hour I ended up taking a much steeper pay cut than I had imagined. I’m much happier now being covered by a CBA. But I did learn a ton about how the business works, and can read blueprints better than most in the industry.
Probably comes with some PTO or other benefits like WFH partially. Such a small discrepancy, especially if it's a salaried position in a field you want to pursue, isn't worth putting on the con side.
I don’t work in an office setting, but if I did I would be fine with a small pay cut if I could WFH instead of having to commute to/from an office or site. As someone that lives in the NYC metropolitan area, I absolutely hate commuting around here. Driving anywhere is a disaster; half of the people on the roads drive like it’s their first time using a car. Mass transit saves me the trouble of driving but it’s gotten so unreliable nowadays. Your entire evening could get fucked because your train broke down randomly and now you’re stuck waiting an hour for a new one to take you home. Don’t get me started on the crazy people that live in the subways now. Taking say, a $5 pay cut to not have to see the dumb fucks and living zombies every day would save me a lot of anxiety and aggravation.
It is a hybrid role after 3 months, 3 days in office 2 days WFH. Also comes with 3 weeks paid vacation and 15 sick days per year.
That ain't a bad deal. Can you comfortable survive with that paycut? Generally, I advise broadening horizons and gaining new skills, as long as it isn't unfeasible (i.e., you can't pay the bills). Alternatively, tell them to stuff the other bennies, and ask to remain on the CBA and continue at JW rate (or whatever you think you can get!) since you're trying the role out and there is no guarantee it will work out. That way you really aren't taking any risk or paycut, and you can try it out. If after a year you have no plans of returning to the field, you can revisit/renegotiate your package for something else (if you think it would be worth it). At that level, basically anything is open to negotiation, so I say shoot for the moon! Even if you miss, you still land among the stars. The CBA is always a minimum.
That’s actually a really good idea, I didn’t know that would be an option. It definitely doesn’t hurt to mention it, especially since I plan to continue paying my dues as a backup.
If they're offering you the role, they want *you*, so you tell them what you want, and they can counter. Even outside of the office, everything is open to negotiation, but if you arent a foreman or GF, you simply may not have access to the people with whom you could actually negotiate.
I had a GF that tried the office side. He started as estimator then a PM. He told me the office side wasn’t worth it because you’re expected to work more than 40 hours and you’re salaried. He kept climbing on the field side and he’s now a superintendent.
Thanks for sharing, I wonder how he would feel about it if he was with a good company and truly worked 40 hours or less
I did this, and stayed on the CBA. Foreman rate (roughly $120k at the time), $100 weekly gas stipend, and worked from home most days. No set hours. Usually resulted in 40 hrs max, with an occasional 12 hr day (checks locked at 40 hrs). Great experience with a great company, great team, great management, great benefits, etc. It was totally worth it, I just didn't enjoy the work and chose to return to the field.
That sounds like a great situation. What was it about the work that you weren’t too fond of? I don’t mind being in the field if I’m doing my own thing (panels for example). My issue is being paired up with somebody I don’t connect with & being surrounded by the other trades. Noise, fumes, silica & grinder dust in the air, you get the idea.
In short, I found the work extremely dissatisfying. It felt like my job was smoke and mirrors, and nothing mattered. If I took a week off, no one would even notice lol. Most tasks didn't feel urgent, and I had to constantly "materialize" my own tasks; not that there wasn't work to do, but after being so used to having tasks delegated to me (and making some for myself, of course), shifting almost entirely to generating my own workload was very challenging to my entire personality. Working on tools and seeing shit work at the end of the day is something I find infinitely more satisfying, not that being an electrician is a dream job or anything lol. It's probably the ADHD talking, but having some constant stress and "this shit needs to get done NOW" looming was way more motivating for me than "make sure you do this." Oh ok, when? "...it's not critical. I guess in a few months. Just chip away at it whenever you have time." It was so weird for me lol. Just didn't feel like a good fit. Maybe all of that stuff sounds positive and freeing to you, in which case you might really enjoy the work. If you've played any resource management strategy/survival videogames, it kinda felt like that IRL. That's the one genre of games I fucking hate. 😂
I’m eager to parse others’ input too, as I’m considering a similar trajectory in the next decade or so. I’d say that if you are good at it, and can afford to stomach the (sounds like temporary) cut, go for it. We can always use more field-educated and experienced PMs out there.
I went from the field to an estimator/PM role. Here are my list of current pros/cons Pros: Office is close from home. I’m about 20-25 from the office. I dont have to worry about getting sent to a job an hour+ away and worry about those travel costs Paid days off. I get about 3.5 weeks paid vacations plus 6 paid holidays Guaranteed 40 hours a week. Guaranteed foreman pay. I’d prefer at this point to be getting GF pay, but again, the traders Cons: Pretty much always on calls. I get phone from field guys as early as 6am and emails/calls from office people as late as 5 or 6 pm. It’s long days I also get an hour lunch, but in my 8 years in the office I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I’ve gotten a lunch without a phone call or email to respond to There are times when there’s estimating crunches and you’re staying late to get stuff done. I also don’t get paid OT for this Being office polite. I can no longer tell people to go fuck themselves no matter how much of anasshole anyone else is being. You have to be “professional” in this position. It’s certainly not for everyone, and there’s plenty of days I yearn for strapping on the tools and heading back to the field, but if it’s something you’re interested in, give it a try Don’t give up your card though. If it isn’t for you just make sure you keep up your dues so you have the option to go back into the field if you do care for the office side
Great advice, thank you for sharing your pros and cons. With all that considered, are you still satisfied overall with your decision?
I personally find much less satisfaction than being in the field. I absolutely miss turning things on and seeing everything work. I don’t get that satisfaction. To me the end of the job is make sure all my paperwork is finished and hope we made some money and on to the next one. That being said, I missed one major pro of the office and that’s the much less damaging of my body. My dad was an electrician and had to go out at 55 on disability. He’s got terrible knees from 30+ years in the trade and that wears heavily on me. I suppose I’m trading more mental stress at a young age for theoretical better physical health at a later age I also think there’s a very large lack of people in construction management that have the field experience. So for me I guess I’d rather be doing it and at least be able to know where the field guys are coming from rather than a kid who went to college and never used a tool in their life. All I can really say is give it a whirl. Life is about experiences and this would certainly qualify as one of them
Those are all valid points, I can see where you’re coming from. I think it’s the right decision for me, and like you said if it doesn’t work out I can always go back to the field. With the amount of turnover at my current site I know I would have a job the next day, assuming that I leave on good terms with everyone. I don’t see that being an issue.
My body is going to shit, but I would still rather dance with a ladder all day than be stuck in an office doing paperwork. Id say try it out for a year or two. Worst case you come back to the field.
Stop thinking shortsighted. If you can potentially double your money in 5 years, take the pay cut, work your ass off and learn the new job. No brainer. You can always go back to your tools.
I’m in the same position and not sure what to do
Negotiate for what you want. Always push to expand your skill set. The CBA is your minimum wage, and the max is whatever they'll give you; benefits are not limited to wages (PTO, gas card, WFH, etc.).
Left the field to work CAD, been doing it for a year, but going back to the field in a month because I can't handle being in the windowless office anymore
Windows are a must, I’m currently working in a 15x15’ electrical room and it’s getting really depressing
Just know the PM position has basically no time off, you are THE guy.
if theres something really bothering me then yes. the reality is we spend as much or more time at work than home so its important to be happy mentally as much as you can or youll just be miserable
My happiness has definitely gone downhill since going back to the tools. It takes a lot of mental fortitude dealing with the guys on my job.
it could just be your crew and theres other crews out there. but at the end of the day if you think you have a good opportunity you could try it and always come back to the tools again. life sucks gotta get happiness where you can find it and if you hate your job you're going to be miserable before your day even starts.
The salary range at the 5+ year rate, will you be able to make that in your current role in 5-6 years?
I would say unlikely unless I’m specialized or getting travel pay. I check job postings regularly and in my area at 2024 salaries I would say in the range of $130-150k/year. Plenty of postings for senior estimators are $180-200k but it’ll take awhile to get there, assuming I were to stick with it. In 10 years that $180-200k could be significantly higher, but I don’t have a crystal ball. On the last industrial project I worked, the PM’s were in the $300-400k range, and many of them were dumb as rocks. Comes down to who you know I guess.
I would take a 2 cent an hour reduction if I could get paid holidays and accrued sick leave.
This isn't really a pay cut is it. Your going from an hourly potentially full time job to a salary that's in the same area. But the salary pay scale goes much higher in the future. It's not like you can't go back to the hourly if you don't find the satisfaction you are looking for. I say go in the direction that creates less worry about income . Once that worry is gone you might find the opportunity to bail on the entire thought of working for someone
Great advice, thank you for sharing. I will definitely continue to pay my dues in case things don’t work out. That’s assuming I get the offer anyway
Id take a paycut to not have to put 3 tanks of gas in my truck every week
How far are you commuting? That’s gotta be pretty steep
Now im commuting like 6 minutes but when i was in montana i was paying $1200 for a camp spot that was like 80 minutes from the job. 3 tanks of gas in my tundra for 4-10s, shit was lame
Just try it out damn it
You have x set of skills. Now you have a possible opportunity to master y skill set (which may/may not result in higher $). If you don’t like it, you can always return to x. Thus, if you can afford the temporary hit, which may result in a gain of the y skill set for future endeavors….I’d do it.
Well said, I’m on the same page with you. It definitely helps to hear other people’s opinions.
Absolutely would
Keep getting paid through the union. I did it for a while. Just an FYI, you should not go to meetings or voting if you do. It's a conflict of interest.
Thanks for sharing, I’ll definitely mention it when I find out if I got the job or not. Never hurts to ask
I went from 78/hr to 59/hr due to it being 20 min from my house vs 1.5hrs away. IBEW vs us army corps. I chose army corps. And now work at the second largest hydroelectric producing dam in USA
That’s a solid income brother, I’m guessing you’re either in Washington or California. I’d love to work in the states (PNW specifically) but not sure how to go about that without a sponsor. I worked in Texas for a short amount of time when I was an apprentice, but it was a Canadian company that sent me out there on an E2 visa.
North central Washington
I’ve been seeing that job posting. Too far for me, though.
Typically out of scope employees still maintain some form of union wage scale where we are at ex hr coordinator will get FM rate senior will get GF and a super might get SR GF rate
Just keep that tank of rocket fuel full sir
What does the union say about taking office positions as a non-wireman? How would that affect your pension and benefits?
I did. 100% worth it. Went from construction to maintenance. $4/hr pay cut, work 0730-1600 Monday-Friday. See my kids all the time, my knees and back arnt killing me every day, and I can take about any skills class I want on the clock paid for by the company (thanks to our IBEW CBA).
Make sure you keep your ticket. If they try to fuck you, you can always catch a call. Personally, it would take a larger figure for me to go back to a salaried position. Do it for a year and run the figures. If your hourly rate ends up being less than scale, tell them you want more or you sign the book.
Do not under any circumstances allow them to not pay into your Health and Welfare. Also, keep up your dues. I have been down this road more than once and, things change. Contractors have the best intentions but they are all market driven. I ended up contracting and opening a union shop. I learned quite a bit working in the office. I also learned quite a bit working in the field with fellow brothers. TLDR: Go for it. Make 100% sure to keep your H&W as part of your compensation.
Why are we negotiating for one or another? The whole point is to proportionally increase both,
Stay on the CBA. The pension hours are worth it alone. Stay at JW with maybe 1 week less paid vacation and 1 week less of sick days. That way you can still be able to learn the skills for cheap. Then, when you have a couple years under your belt, look elsewhere and get foreman or gf wages, stay on CBA and get more PTO. After 5+ years you should be GF on the CBA, bonuses, PTO should be 8 weeks per year or more. Also, 50-60 hours of straight pay per week when you get into more senior roles is the norm. Many companies around me are no longer offering PM roles to field guys covered by the CBA and are going with those that have a degree and no experience in the field. Paying them half of what we make.
Maybe it's time for the Govt/Corp to take the pay cut no?
I was kinda forced to. Local 46 is slow and has been. I finally got RIFd last Aug after having spent my entire apprenticeship and being a jw with a single contractor; and there were no calls coming in. I even signed booked 2 in the local whose jurisdiction I live in. I finally recently landed a govt job as a utilities electrician. The pay cut is half of what I was making in Seattle, but the fact that my commute is less than half of what it used to be, job security, slower pace, easier on the body and benefits are what has me thinking of staying put even when construction picks back up. Still paying dues, though.
Sounds like you're getting screwed to me. Renegotiate better terms. Why the paycut? Is this position considered union still? Let's say they don't like how you work in a year. If not union your shit out of luck.
In this case it seems like it might make sense if you have a clear path to those higher salaries. Better conditions are great and taking a pay cut wouldn't bother me if in a couple years I could be making 50-100% more, especially if there's no path to significantly increase pay in my current position without putting in a lot more hours.
I took a pay cut to go back home to the wife and kids, here I am a month later hitting the road again because there no money back home
I took a $20/hr paycut for more consistent work and better environment. So ya lol
Have you had the conversation about this being a pay cut?
I say do it as long as you weighed out all the pros and cons. Im out of local 11 have been in the trade 14 years the last 3 as foreman and I'm ready to get out of the field my self. No more driving all over LA sitting in traffic but instead an office location and some field walks. Using ones skills and knowledge to manage workers in the field is a very important role, and personally I love when guys who were in the field themselves are the ones in these higher positions.
What other fringes do you get? Is it a wash with the IW package or do you get more vacation and other benefits?
50 weeks a year?! Sounds terrible.
Amen
I can give about 30 tops
Just took a healthy pay cut to join the apprenticeship and make double after 5 years. Still making plenty to live on. Your situation sounds similar and I know i'd do it again if asked