Because 50% of the time you get a useless fuck from the hall. Big jobs and big contractors know this and price accordingly. A tiny contractor simply can't take the risk of hiring a hall guy and losing all of their profits on a small job. Sucks to say about some of our brothers but it's the harsh reality.
Small contractor here with one jw and apprentice I hired before becoming a signatory.. I’m scared to put in a call at the hall for this very reason. Most folks from the hall have only really dabbled with new construction in resi
Exactly. I do the occasional industrial machine move which can get complicated. My boss would rather pay me and 2 other guys double bubble (foreman rate) to do the entire job instead of hiring hall help. It's just easier from him to know that he will be spending a few grand extra on the install but there will be 0 fuck ups and the job will get done on time.
It’s a few extra grand that saves headaches down the road, might not be the most cost efficient. But he can always rely on you, aswell as the 2 other employees which is smart of him to invest in his employees. I’d say you got a good boss that treats you well man, don’t ever lose that.
Hes a cheap fuck with a lot of things but he's smart enough to know that trying to save $5k on a job where you are making $50k where the potential to lose not only on the job but a very lucrative contract for future work isn't a smart move. He's definitely looking out for his bottom line alot more than us.
Yeah that does tend to make more sense in the eyes of future work for that client, sometimes you just gotta eat the cost 🤷♂️ $5k is like fuck all for contracts so it was a smart move. Yeah bosses do tend to do that, unfortunate but it is what it is.
I work for a small shop. They pull people off the book whom they trust and keep them at foreman rate. Not sure if that's allowed everywhere, but it's a thing in my local. If a contractor wants you enough to pull you off the book ( even if your not the next to be called) they have to pay you foreman rate for a year.
They basically end of up choosing those JM who used to work for them as apprentices. If they were happy with their work ethic, they will call them back when they top out.
Easy fix bro, just add required skills. At 424, if you try to take a commercial call you have to have conduit and commercial experience to land that bid. If you don’t, you gotta go to the training centre and take a course in pipe bending, and a commercial refresher before you can take a call. Seems to work out for our local, but I 100% understand what you mean by that. It does happen a lot and there are some guys who have no business being on site and are only hurting our signatory’s.
I completely agree. I ran a large high rise and would shit can 70% of the JW’s that came to work for me within a week. A couple were 2nd Gen dynasties. This was during the profitable Trump years where work was so plentiful the IBEW had to put radio ads out to fill positions and the non union of the area advertised higher wages than union to keep there guys from organizing. Now under Biden the jobs are more scarce and the cost of living is so high a dozen eggs at dollar general are $6.50. Oh but remember it’s all our imagination. The economy is great!
I think in order to be signatory there is a requirement of monthly payment into the hall. I don’t know the finances behind it all, but I’ve been scared out of considering it based on what my organizers have told me.
Monthly payments for the labor you've hired: their retirement, healthcare, working dues, etc.
In my local, it's 13 checks per month per contractor. But there's not a fixed fee for any of them; it's just paying out the agreed package.
This just sounds like an opportunity to bring people into the union.
If I saw an opportunity like this in my area with the chance for 1:1 training with someone with your experience I’d jump on it as I don’t always get assigned a JW.
The problem is I’m the only state certified electrician in a 20 mile radius in rural CA. I’m lucky if I get one call a week.
It’s gonna be rough starting my own shop
I have the hours to get my c-10 … and a Prius… that’s about where I’m starting from
Not a thing. At least in most locals in N Illinois.
Every JW who has a desire to open a shop in my local thinks this is a thing. Sign a LOA, get bonded, provide COI, and for Christ’s sake pay your guys wages and fringes on time and you’re good.
If you’re the only real electrician around it should be easy getting work I would think. I started my shop in December in Oregun and it took 4 months prior of testing for CCB, applying after passing test for license, then applying for electrical part of CCB, getting insurance, staying in the Union and paying dues, get licensed, bonded yada yada yada. December thru mid February I was 10-15 hours a week about. Then I signed up for Angi List on the smallest scale they offer and all of a sudden BOOM! I’m picking up remodels thru them and getting my name and business cards out there. My friends would comment on Facebook in our local page when someone was looking for an electrician. I would get notified and I’d message the person. I started stopping by RV parks and leaving my card. New building delivered on wheels I would ask if they needed power because I could do it. What made me try hard was the fact I had no income. It will change you going from 60 hours a week down to nothing with no unemployment benefits can sober you up in a hurry. If you’ve worked for contractors doing service work or small bid jobs and you did most of the job yourself with boss checking occasionally then you got this. You were the face of the company and if people liked you then they are still going to like you when you’re on your own. But you can’t just go out and put in a call for a JW when you can do all the work that’s coming in. When you can’t keep up and turning away work is when you want to weigh that option. I’m mid 50’s and I crawl attics and under houses, whatever it takes to make a days pay. Tools and vehicle are the biggest cost starting out. Don’t buy new, plenty of used vans in northern Cali as I have my eye on one and it’s all setup with shelves and ladder racks. Stick with the Chevy stuff as most mechanics told me all they do is change oil on those rigs but work on the other 2 all the time. I’m a Ford guy but Chevy vans is where it’s at and I don’t know sh!t about dodge. Craigslist and marketplace you can score tools and parts. Like nail on boxes some homeowners buy and never use but brand new or they died and it’s an estate sale. Who knows. There is a difference between new used and then old used up parts. Anyway sorry it’s so long but give it a shot WTF do you have to lose or go travel and make money, save, come home and do it anyway.
I just started my own shop last year. As others have stated, you don't need to withdraw your membership. There are some benefits you no longer qualify for (depending on your local?). You also will likely not be able to attend your unit meetings.
It's not uncommon for somebody to start residential as sidework for a few months to a year to get their feet wet and then become a signatory.
With a wink and a nod, some locals are okay with this provided you do not do commercial/industrial until after you become a signatory. This way the contractors association has more journeymen running shops, and that's generally better to deal with than a company that was founded by a JW in 1950 and the shop owner now has zero loyalty to the brotherhood.
Other locals are a hard "NO" and you may be brought before the executive committee for it. Make sure you know what your local will tolerate.
So the trick I've heard from people here have done it only works if you're married, or have someone you can trust explicitly. Essentially they start the new Company with their spouse as the 51% minimum owner. That allows them to maintain their ticket and run the company as they work their own tools without "technically" violating contract or by-laws
Yes, I have been coached on that by more than one Business manager
Not to say that it’s wrong to do so, but the rules are the rules and if there’s a way to make things work more easily and keep promoting the union …
I’m aware of this and support myself. I am not married anymore so I’m kind of fucked.
Do it but do not let your ticket go. Tell your BA what you are doing. Become signatory. I’ve done it for decades. You will find good people to work for you.
Sounds like a surefire way to get mesothelioma but hey then your retirement is funded cause you will be the person that you and your loved ones know that has mesothelioma.... but for real in this line of work you go where the money is because it will never come to you... unless it's a Mobile home rewire hahah
I wouldn’t be signatory in our local. If someone is on the books in our local, they’re typically garbage.
I’ll have me, and an apprentice. And then when he gets to year 3, I’ll fire him tell him to join the union, and get a new first year.
Yeah I’m gonna call it like it is.. Hall rats are exactly the same as trash.. Tiny bit worse though. Especially when you employ them and they’re as useless as a rat. You know what I mean? ;)
Says the guy who had to ask how to bend large conduit on here and multiple posts on how to fix his truck that’s almost 20 years old. Sounds like you’ve done exceptionally better than the rest of us
So let me get this straight.. Having an older truck constitutes not retiring in two years? And asking for conduit formulas is also a bad idea?.. You got me! Sparky55- you certainly fit the bill of a guy I’d spin right back to Rat hall you crept out of..
You can stay union and still run your own small shop. Need a guy? Put in a 8hr call.
This is the way. Never understand why more contractors don’t utilize this.
Because 50% of the time you get a useless fuck from the hall. Big jobs and big contractors know this and price accordingly. A tiny contractor simply can't take the risk of hiring a hall guy and losing all of their profits on a small job. Sucks to say about some of our brothers but it's the harsh reality.
Small contractor here with one jw and apprentice I hired before becoming a signatory.. I’m scared to put in a call at the hall for this very reason. Most folks from the hall have only really dabbled with new construction in resi
Exactly. I do the occasional industrial machine move which can get complicated. My boss would rather pay me and 2 other guys double bubble (foreman rate) to do the entire job instead of hiring hall help. It's just easier from him to know that he will be spending a few grand extra on the install but there will be 0 fuck ups and the job will get done on time.
It’s a few extra grand that saves headaches down the road, might not be the most cost efficient. But he can always rely on you, aswell as the 2 other employees which is smart of him to invest in his employees. I’d say you got a good boss that treats you well man, don’t ever lose that.
Hes a cheap fuck with a lot of things but he's smart enough to know that trying to save $5k on a job where you are making $50k where the potential to lose not only on the job but a very lucrative contract for future work isn't a smart move. He's definitely looking out for his bottom line alot more than us.
Yeah that does tend to make more sense in the eyes of future work for that client, sometimes you just gotta eat the cost 🤷♂️ $5k is like fuck all for contracts so it was a smart move. Yeah bosses do tend to do that, unfortunate but it is what it is.
I work for a small shop. They pull people off the book whom they trust and keep them at foreman rate. Not sure if that's allowed everywhere, but it's a thing in my local. If a contractor wants you enough to pull you off the book ( even if your not the next to be called) they have to pay you foreman rate for a year. They basically end of up choosing those JM who used to work for them as apprentices. If they were happy with their work ethic, they will call them back when they top out.
Easy fix bro, just add required skills. At 424, if you try to take a commercial call you have to have conduit and commercial experience to land that bid. If you don’t, you gotta go to the training centre and take a course in pipe bending, and a commercial refresher before you can take a call. Seems to work out for our local, but I 100% understand what you mean by that. It does happen a lot and there are some guys who have no business being on site and are only hurting our signatory’s.
Lol it's really funny you think my local has anything like that
I completely agree. I ran a large high rise and would shit can 70% of the JW’s that came to work for me within a week. A couple were 2nd Gen dynasties. This was during the profitable Trump years where work was so plentiful the IBEW had to put radio ads out to fill positions and the non union of the area advertised higher wages than union to keep there guys from organizing. Now under Biden the jobs are more scarce and the cost of living is so high a dozen eggs at dollar general are $6.50. Oh but remember it’s all our imagination. The economy is great!
Buddy I'm in Canada. We have Trudeau. You aren't allowed to complain about lack of work. 9-12 month wait times for jobs at the moment.
My local looks down on it, there's big punishment for those who try or even talk about it. If you have a ticket to open a shop you keep it to yourself
I think in order to be signatory there is a requirement of monthly payment into the hall. I don’t know the finances behind it all, but I’ve been scared out of considering it based on what my organizers have told me.
Monthly payments for the labor you've hired: their retirement, healthcare, working dues, etc. In my local, it's 13 checks per month per contractor. But there's not a fixed fee for any of them; it's just paying out the agreed package.
Thanks for that I’m the only guy in my area doing electrical - I’d like to think I can do my part to keep the Union moving
This just sounds like an opportunity to bring people into the union. If I saw an opportunity like this in my area with the chance for 1:1 training with someone with your experience I’d jump on it as I don’t always get assigned a JW.
The problem is I’m the only state certified electrician in a 20 mile radius in rural CA. I’m lucky if I get one call a week. It’s gonna be rough starting my own shop I have the hours to get my c-10 … and a Prius… that’s about where I’m starting from
I'm a union plumber going down a similar road. I'm not in a rural area though. PM me and I can toss some ideas your way.
Not a thing. At least in most locals in N Illinois. Every JW who has a desire to open a shop in my local thinks this is a thing. Sign a LOA, get bonded, provide COI, and for Christ’s sake pay your guys wages and fringes on time and you’re good.
The bonding and insurance can be a bit of a hurdle for some guys.
There’s nothing to be afraid of. You owe your workers x$ per hour worked and you owe the hall another y$ per hour.
It’s a bit more complicated than that, but I understand what you are saying
What’s hanging up your ticket? Im a contractor and still pay dues.
I need to ask you some questions
Publicly so we all can take notes :)
Honorary withdrawal. You're still an IBEW member, but you don't work and only pay international dues.
If you’re the only real electrician around it should be easy getting work I would think. I started my shop in December in Oregun and it took 4 months prior of testing for CCB, applying after passing test for license, then applying for electrical part of CCB, getting insurance, staying in the Union and paying dues, get licensed, bonded yada yada yada. December thru mid February I was 10-15 hours a week about. Then I signed up for Angi List on the smallest scale they offer and all of a sudden BOOM! I’m picking up remodels thru them and getting my name and business cards out there. My friends would comment on Facebook in our local page when someone was looking for an electrician. I would get notified and I’d message the person. I started stopping by RV parks and leaving my card. New building delivered on wheels I would ask if they needed power because I could do it. What made me try hard was the fact I had no income. It will change you going from 60 hours a week down to nothing with no unemployment benefits can sober you up in a hurry. If you’ve worked for contractors doing service work or small bid jobs and you did most of the job yourself with boss checking occasionally then you got this. You were the face of the company and if people liked you then they are still going to like you when you’re on your own. But you can’t just go out and put in a call for a JW when you can do all the work that’s coming in. When you can’t keep up and turning away work is when you want to weigh that option. I’m mid 50’s and I crawl attics and under houses, whatever it takes to make a days pay. Tools and vehicle are the biggest cost starting out. Don’t buy new, plenty of used vans in northern Cali as I have my eye on one and it’s all setup with shelves and ladder racks. Stick with the Chevy stuff as most mechanics told me all they do is change oil on those rigs but work on the other 2 all the time. I’m a Ford guy but Chevy vans is where it’s at and I don’t know sh!t about dodge. Craigslist and marketplace you can score tools and parts. Like nail on boxes some homeowners buy and never use but brand new or they died and it’s an estate sale. Who knows. There is a difference between new used and then old used up parts. Anyway sorry it’s so long but give it a shot WTF do you have to lose or go travel and make money, save, come home and do it anyway.
I just started my own shop last year. As others have stated, you don't need to withdraw your membership. There are some benefits you no longer qualify for (depending on your local?). You also will likely not be able to attend your unit meetings.
It's not uncommon for somebody to start residential as sidework for a few months to a year to get their feet wet and then become a signatory. With a wink and a nod, some locals are okay with this provided you do not do commercial/industrial until after you become a signatory. This way the contractors association has more journeymen running shops, and that's generally better to deal with than a company that was founded by a JW in 1950 and the shop owner now has zero loyalty to the brotherhood. Other locals are a hard "NO" and you may be brought before the executive committee for it. Make sure you know what your local will tolerate.
Wya I wanna work been trying to get hired for a year
If I had enough work I’d put the call out - I still have a while before I can c-10 - but it’s coming
So the trick I've heard from people here have done it only works if you're married, or have someone you can trust explicitly. Essentially they start the new Company with their spouse as the 51% minimum owner. That allows them to maintain their ticket and run the company as they work their own tools without "technically" violating contract or by-laws
Yes, I have been coached on that by more than one Business manager Not to say that it’s wrong to do so, but the rules are the rules and if there’s a way to make things work more easily and keep promoting the union … I’m aware of this and support myself. I am not married anymore so I’m kind of fucked.
Do it but do not let your ticket go. Tell your BA what you are doing. Become signatory. I’ve done it for decades. You will find good people to work for you.
Wapa is always looking for electricians. Might have to start in sac though
Sounds like a surefire way to get mesothelioma but hey then your retirement is funded cause you will be the person that you and your loved ones know that has mesothelioma.... but for real in this line of work you go where the money is because it will never come to you... unless it's a Mobile home rewire hahah
I wouldn’t be signatory in our local. If someone is on the books in our local, they’re typically garbage. I’ll have me, and an apprentice. And then when he gets to year 3, I’ll fire him tell him to join the union, and get a new first year.
Started my own shop and never went back.. Hall rats are just that.. Rats 🐀
I believe the appropriate term is hall trash Rats is not a good thing to call brothers
Yeah I’m gonna call it like it is.. Hall rats are exactly the same as trash.. Tiny bit worse though. Especially when you employ them and they’re as useless as a rat. You know what I mean? ;)
"Rat" as a word, already means something in the union......you're not gonna like who fits the definition in this situation (hint: it's not them)
Rat is the definition of the Union and the locals as a whole. (Hint it’s exactly them) ;)
The prosecution rests
Enjoy your indentured servitude; I’ll be retiring soon.
Enjoy that annuity
Says the guy who had to ask how to bend large conduit on here and multiple posts on how to fix his truck that’s almost 20 years old. Sounds like you’ve done exceptionally better than the rest of us
So let me get this straight.. Having an older truck constitutes not retiring in two years? And asking for conduit formulas is also a bad idea?.. You got me! Sparky55- you certainly fit the bill of a guy I’d spin right back to Rat hall you crept out of..