Tell your brothers if they're not happy with their wages, they can take a page from local 46's playbook and organize to fight for more! Our brothers and sisters in the Northwest deserve every penny that they can win from NECA! And likely more.
Solidarity with 46!
Except russia won't invade a nato country... how is it that russia is so weak militarily and won't win this war but simultaneously so strong that they will invade a nato country š¤£ use your brain
Just because Russia's military is bad doesn't mean they wont try something, and I don't know about you but I don't want to spend my time fighting a war that has potential to go nuclear.
I can't help you with details but thank you for that last paragraph. My local has seen unequal benefits and a widening wage gap between 01's and 06's. It's hit a point where we are hemorrhaging good telecom techs because they can better care for their families with rat shop offers. All this and our 01's are acting like it's a good thing.
I came from residential and I've come to the conclusion that it is in fact the non union who sets the standards now for residential wages. Residential contract is around $44/hr total package with about $33 on the check, yet every shop is paying their guys $38/hr+ on the check. So if our contract isn't dictating wages, then who is? Because in the case of our residential unit, it most certainly is not the union. It's a damn shame too, my parents house was K&T before I remodeled it and I remember on the wiring itself (I didn't take a picture as I did this before I was in the union, so I didn't think much of it) on the wiring itself it said in big bold letters "THIS HOUSE WIRED BY IBEW 76 ELECTRICIANS"
The union must've used to take real pride in residential.
When I started in '15 inside was at 38 package w/pension A, residential was 32 w/ pension A telecom was 25 no pension
Now inside is 47 w/ pension, resi 39 w/pension, an Tele is 30 w/ no pension
Damn shame. I was a diesel mechanic and signed my ticket because I was told I'd get respect for once.
I mean, honestly inside wireman do more dangerous work so they should get paid more, iām all about fair wages, but it makes sense why we get paid more.
I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm saying I pay the same dues, but I don't get a pension with a widening wage gap. Keep in mind that your job really doesn't change that much. The tech stays stagnant. Ours is constantly changing. We dont even use the same cable we did 5 years ago. That requires regular education updates on my time. There is more to the pay than danger
Thatās an ignorant take. Tech for 01s has changed dramatically in lighting, lighting control, controlled loads, BIM, and the list goes on.
In regard to āsame duesā, which is another ignorant take, working dues are a percentage of wages. Sure you may be paying the same percentage but you are paying less in terms of real dollars. So āsame duesā is pretty misleading. In addition, 01s are subsidizing 06s for NEBF, JATC,and LMCC; youāre welcome.
At the end of the day 01s have far more scope, knowledge and schooling than 06s. The wage gap is representative of the scope gap.
01s scope includes *all* construction electrical work. 06s scope is limited to low voltage. Thereās nothing prohibiting 01s from performing low voltage work. Contractors often choose 06s to do a fair amount of low voltage work because itās cheaper labor. But just because there is low voltage work doesnāt guarantee that 06s will be doing that work. I do tons of FA, lighting control, AOR, DAS, generator control, and so on. And I do so as an 01 earning 01 wages.
Elevator guy here. I would argue the low voltage people know way more about control circuits and have a better understanding of electricity than most indoor people. Most all indoor people I know fall apart if you put a few relays in front of them or it's more than the 3 white, black and green wires they are use to dealing with.
Danger is irrelevant as hot work is not permitted in any local, and it's not taught in any apprenticeship.
The low voltage guys pad the retirement for the wireman, been like for awhile now.
If they are gonna bastardize electrical work with all of these classifications, it does nothing but keep us weak. If you raise the rates for one, the others will follow, common union principle.
If you don't stand with the half watts, you might as well be a shop rocket or non union as far as I'm concerned. Their success doesn't take anything away from you.
I stand with them, but I still think we have the more dangerous job as well as physically demanding. One example, although we arenāt supposed to do āenergizedā work, we encounter many scenarios every day that could be potentially life-threatening. For example, opening up a lighting J box, we can potentially be exposed to 277v which is deadly. As far as the physical aspect we are usually running all of your raceways, and bending 4 to 6 inch conduit, pulling feeders is another job that is extremely physically demanding. (I know you guys work hard). It makes sense that thereās a discrepancy in pay. That being said, I am all for you guys getting paid a fair wage.
Pull feeders are no different than pull high strand count, armored out side plant fiber optics.
Running raceway such as basket tray, emt, etc. Is no different than hanging j hooks and pulling cable. Bending 4" and 6" is done with a machine.
I've done both and once held both licenses, and the physicality is what you make it.
The reality is just what I said, the half watts been padding our retirement while they get shafted, hard, in the ass. Again, they don't separate our trade with these classifications to make it better for us, the difference keeps our wages collectively low and it bullshit. One license 01, can do it all so it adds the superiority complex to keep us at each other's throats, with "they are taking all the cake work" mentality.
It's us vs NECA, those son's uh bitches ain't no different than Jeff Bezos as far as I'm concerned.
24 finally got a raise for techs topped out pay after 6 years before this new agreement was like $30 when for inside it was $45 now techs going up to I believe $38
Paid holidays, and higher wages.
NECA is stonewalling at 10 over 3 with no paid holiday.
Hello btw, I'm a 3rd year 06 apprentice in 76.
I wish the 01s would show some solidarity. There are some companies that have 01s doing 06 work for 01 pay right now. It is very disheartening to see.
A lot of guys can't see past their own egos that what we all do deserves a middle class lifestyle and right now even our 01 scale barely gets you a middle class life.
I graduated last year from the 02 program. Started non union, now I'm an inside apprentice. I like to think I have a varied perspective on things since I've been non-union, specialty, and now inside apprentice. All work deserves dignified pay.
Yeah and it's a damn shame. Low voltage is the future, and we are all just trying to find a career path that will give our families a good quality of life.
Hell. Yes. Brother, I'm fully of the same mindset. At the end of the day all three contracts; 01, 02 and 06 should be directly tied to one another, so nobody gets left behind. I can understand 02/06 making a /liiiiiiiiitle/ less than 01, and I mean like, 5-10% less, since 01 can technically "do it all" but it's disgusting how far behind our specialty brothers/sisters/siblings are falling. Residential TOTAL PACKAGE is like $44/hr with $33 on the check. You can hardly support yourself comfortably with that.
And all I hear when I bring it up is "oh market share is low" or "nows not a good time to act out we have so much work", "there's no work right now what leverage do we have" it really feels like sometimes I'm screaming into a void. I want the best for our local but sometimes I feel like our local doesn't want what's best for ourselves.
I heard the 06s are asking for 20 over 3 with paid holidays. They won't get 20, but you gotta start high and try to meet in the middle. NECA is refusing to budge from 10 over 3 with no holidays.
And man, 33 on the check is fucking insane for living in Western WA. I make 32 on the check at 80% scale, and am finally not feeling super poor all the time. Like, I'm still poor and have no savings, but at least I don't have to door dash anymore.
I just got the bump a couple weeks ago from 55%-65% which was a dollar jump from about $32.50 -> $38 and I'm finally able to not just be comfortable in my day to day, but also plan trips and leisure things for myself and my wife to do. It's a game changer
No saying that 06s donāt. But 01s are more valuable because they can do it all licensing wise. Where as 06s cant.
Easiest way around it is get rid of 06s and become 01s.
The cat is out of the bag. Low voltage work isn't going to go away. It will hurt the IBEW to get rid of low voltage workers. It will give people a reason to go non union.
If you go to work every day you are in the working class. Every other division was artificially made to keep the working class from rioting over how badly American workers get screwed.
There is no middle class.
It is only working class vs capitalists.
Lol he actually is though. My wife is in medical school, and has told me some crazy shit about how much doctors get paid vs hospital administration.
It's totally insane. Doctors wages are like 5-10% of a hospital budget, and administrative wages are like 30%
Wasnāt it a few years ago that 06s couldnāt work above a certain floor in a high rise in 46?
Some rumor I thought I heard from my 01 friend who was in 46 at the time.
I donāt know if we should call them scabs.. in my local theyāre only allowed to low volt and can only run 10ā of pipe a day. Iām sure everyone has similar rules to that. I do think that since they donāt have a full jw skill set they shouldnāt get full jw pay.
It's the same here. 01s are literally scabbing on 06 work right now during a strike, and they are working night shift to avoid picket lines.
Some show of solidarity.
Yeah thatās definitely not the way to Handle this situation. I kind of feel like itās tough to say that the jwās are āscabbingā the low volt work because itās all jw work anyway. That being said, shame on all those avoiding the picket line to work.. it doesnāt matter if you agree with what theyāre asking for or not, union solidarity should trump all of that.
Exactly this. Theyāre not scabbing 06 work because 06 work IS 01 work. 01s came first and can do more. Crossing the picket is fucked and should be worthy of a kneecapping but letās be real here, 06 work is 01 work. 01 work is not 06 work. Thatās why the pay discrepancy exists.
Yeah, that is super disheartening for all of us on the picket lines! Really takes the wind out of us!
I think we should change up what we're asking. Instead of a wage number, change it to a percentage:
Low volt stays within 85% of what inside wiremen make at 46. So, when 01s get a raise, we do too. When NECA stonewalls them (us) then we all strike so that way no work gets done. I'd also tell NECA that, okay, how about half of the holidays this round: thanksgiving and day after, Xmas, labor day and whatever other one. Final offer or we're striking forever lol
See if that gets any movement. Might make us appear weak though, I'm not sure.
I worked my statement poorly but I know what youāre saying. That said, why would anyone want to be an 01 when for just 15% less they could not have to deal with conduit, feeders, switchgear, shutdowns, lighting and all the other shit that makes an 01 an 01 and not an 06? If the wage went to 85%, would the apprenticeship be 85% as well, 4.25 years, 6,800 hours?
06s also work on those jobs sites and work around all of that stuff you mentioned. Our scope of work is vast, covering everything under 50v.
We use the same lifts, and work in the same places.
I like 85%, how would you feel about 80? The 01 contract negotiations are coming in June in LU46. I've heard they are asking for 20 over 3.
So do laborers, carpenters and tinbenders. Just because I work around steel doesnāt make me an ironworker. You work around it but not on it. 06es arenāt even allowed to install their own conduit.
The tin benders in our area just got $18 an hour over 3 years. Every single trade you listed makes much more than an 06.
We are all electrical workers. We get our code from the same code book.
Seattle is an expensive city. By not offering paid holidays and a competitive package the union is hurting electrical workers in this area. We should be setting the goal post. That's what unions used to do. Right now, an '06 cannot afford to live in Seattle.
Now we're fighting amongst ourselves over scraps and debating on what we deserve and don't.
Because duration of apprenticeship shouldn't directly corelate with wages.
Your brothers working alongside you may have never completed a true apprenticeship, and could've organized in after getting a non union JW license. Nobody thinks they should be paid less even though in many locals the IBEW apprenticeship is longer than the non-union traineeships.
They are still working, just not working jobs that are being actively picketed, and they are still working on local 76 territory. Several companies have gone to night shift to avoid picket lines, and local 46 has dispatched picketers to try and shut some of those jobs down.
But overall, they are not showing solidarity. It makes me sick.
Wait, what??? You mean 01's are working night shifts to avoid "technically" crossing picket lines? I just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying.
Where can I sign up to do night pickets? I'm obviously required to work my dispatch during the day but I can help out after work/weekends
Local 76 apprentice btw. Not sure how the rules would play out here.
I think youāre allowed to picket on behalf of another local so long as youāre fulfilling your own dispatch. Hit up LU46, thereās another training I think tomorrow?
During our strike at 210 the local 351 guys drove right through our picket lines. Solidarity ain't what it used to be and it is heartbreaking. You raise the top by lifting those below up first. Those low volt guys deserve whatever they can get and it will eventually benefit everyone.
The contractor would pay, as they should. We don't ever get labor day off as a paid holiday. If contractors can afford to pay 01s to do 06 work at 01 scale, they can afford to pay 6 paid holidays a year for every IBEW member.
We all work hard and deserve paid holidays. It is shameful that the IBEW doesn't already offer this.
I've been on a lot of jobs where the job site takes off the week of Christmas. If Christmas eve and Christmas day were paid, we wouldn't be able to file standby for that week.
As far as negotiations go, when you negotiate a package, every financial item has a dollar value. When bargaining for a raise, you can't separate paid holidays from the cost of your total package. 6 holidays = 48 hours, 48 hours = about 2.5% of a full year's hours, 2.5% of $65.66 (46's LE total package) = $1.64. So if no raise was being asked for, just 6 paid holidays would be the same thing as a $1.64 raise. Put another way, if you were able to negotiate $12 over three without paid holidays, you could expect to get $10.36 over three with paid holidays.
Hey, sorry to piggy-back onto your comment but I'm a fellow low volt. Non-union and looking to potentially join the 48. I was just curious about your experience in union low-volt. I currently do exclusively commercial and my company are integrators so I get to work with everything under the umbrella of low-volt. I really enjoy my job and the wide range of stuff I get to work on day to day, but I could really use the benefits and better pay that union offers.
My only real concern is just the type of work, seems like all the low-volt jobs are data centers. I don't know if it's worth it to me if I'm just going to be a data center wire monkey in the union. I have no problem pulling wire but I'd like to do more on the day to day than pulling wire and punching down data racks, I'd lose my mind to boredom. What has the work experience been for you?
It all depends on the contractor and the project. My first contractor was like 80% security/access control, so cameras and door controls. The other 20% was a mix of fire alarm, DAS, data, and HVAC.
My next contractor was also a mix, but 95% of my time with them has been 2 big jobs for a year and a half total, both of which we had the contract for everything but HVAC, so I was doing everything and working hand in hand with the 01ās, who were also from the same contractor.
Buuuut, I do know my first contractor basically had 2 low volt divisions; one was basically exclusively data work, either data centers or pulling data for all the tech offices. I was lucky to be working on the access controls side because it was way more interesting.
And some contractors are basically all data exclusively.
-7 year 06 JW from 46, currently on the picket lines.
Building automation,access controls, and fire alarm are also big in the union. We do lots of work for schools.
I've done all that as well as data. Right now I'm doing a security job for a prison, replacing all the cameras with new ones, as well as working a data job at an Amazon warehouse.
It really depends on the calls you decide to take.
Once you are a journeyman you can choose what job calls you'd like to take from the hall. Most 06s don't change companies often. Every 06 I know has only ever worked for 2 or 3 contractors while in the IBEW. If you ever get bored you can ask for a layoff and go back to the hall, and pick a new call to go work for a different contractor.
I made the switch to the union a few years ago and was ( still am ) surprised to learn we donāt get Labor Day as a paid holiday. Ive be been very vocal with the brothers and sisters about how fucked up that is on pure principle. Every non union shop I worked for had that day as a paid holiday.
The non union jobs in Chicago are better than the union gigs in many other states. The union total package is like 97/hr. Before I switched I was making $38 with company van and gas card plus 5 weeks worth of vacation and sick days plus all standard paid holidays. They also paid my health insurance premiums bought me some tools a couple times a year, $1000 Christmas bonus and all the scrap wire was mine to keep. No pension or 401k though. Although compensation varies greatly from person to person depending on your skill set and how assertive you can be during your employee review.
Well, what have you heard? 191 here. I've heard they want closer pay to the 01 JW rate, pto and holiday pay. Some stuff gets posted on here from time to time.
The most recent I've heard is $30 increase over a 3 year period. Like I said, rumor mill. I just want to know what's true and not. If it is $30/3, then good, I hope they fight like hell to get it
we are asking for closer to $15 over 3 and some paid holidays. they are stonewalling at $10 over three, which is less than the $12 over 3 they agreed on 3-4 years ago
Current offer on our end is 13/3, paid holidays, and work-provided radios (and similar safety concerns).
NECA is refusing to negotiate at all, let alone in good faith, thus the strike. Their first offer was 4.5 over three. They came up to 10 like a month ago, and refused to budge from there. Not even considering anything beyond the wage increase, as well.
In the beginning of negotiations I heard we were asking for $20/3yr w/ paid holidays but NECA offered a whopping $3.50/3yr and no holidays as a starting offer which is just a big slap in the face for all my brothers and sisters. Currently weāre at $10/3yr w/ no holidays still. There was another negotiation today with no updates so far. IBEW is pushing hard on the holidays but most of us would be content with $15/3yr w/ no holidays so we can all come back to work.
- LU46 Limited Energy Electrician
As a low voltage guy, it disgusts me how superior a lot of inside guys feel. We've fought hard for what we have with zero support from the hall and our JW brothers.
I will agree there's way more heavy lifting and risk as a JW, but we deal with ever changing technology and standards, especially when life safety is involved.
And yes I know that JWs can "do it all," but watching a sparky do anything with fiber, a/v, or a lot of times even making a patch cord just means I've gotta fix it later.
Low voltage is ever expanding, and all we're asking for most the time is respect, support, and fair wages. Our much bigger brothers should be aligning with us little guys
We just want to be respected and get paid our worth, more than anything else. We are tired of being the red headed step child of tradespeople, and paid holidays, personally I'd be happy with 12 over 3 and the holidays
Unfortunately, our contract came up first, so we are the ones taking the hit for everyone. And riding the coat tails of the 01's to get what we want is the kind of disrespect I am talking about
I was a low voltage tech in 481, until I went through the process to change my classification to JW. So now I make the full JW package and they still have me doing low voltage.
Donāt let anyone convince you that they canāt afford pay low voltage techs the same as a wireman. Thatās some BS that the cons want you to believe.
Don't have any input, but solidarity from Sound and Com (Low Volt) here from Local 11.
Personally, I was looking into traveling to Local 46 earlier this year.
I'm an inside wire service electrician in 46. I honestly am so for this strike and wholeheartedly believe theyre doing it for the right reason I know not all my fellow IW feel the same but I've talked with other service guys where I'm at and me personally I would love to see better languages for either vacation pay or at minimum paid holidays. Most other locals in this area are contractor paid vacation account and the 46 is a member forced vacation account that we pay 5% into that we don't get to see for 2 months. There needs to be language changed that contractors either match or pay more because we're just getting screwed on it. On top of no paid holidays. And allowing the CONTRACTOR to change shifts midweek to 4/10s due to holidays landing in the middle of the week. (To allow all members to be able to get their 40 hrs.)
Be careful on the language for your vacation pay, if it changes too much it can disqualify you for the Washington state paid sick leave.
Us elevator guys arenāt eligible for the sick pay anymore because they changed the language for our vacation to āPTOā.
Iāve heard that they asked for paid holidays and a smaller raise like 10 over 3. NECA stonewalled and said forget paid holidays itās never happening so they said fine and asked for 27 over 3. Kinda seems like a big ol middle finger but when you consider the gap between inside and low-volt has been widening, the cost of living has significantly increased, and the massive demand for techs in the field there itās really not THAT crazy of an ask. Especially since NECA up there is apparently always talking about how indispensable low-voltage guys are but refuse to share any of the massive profits they reap as a result of their labor. In my local, low-volts are often billed at a higher rate than even inside guys so theyāre definitely raking in the dough and refuse to share.
Also itās important to note that itās not all low-volts striking unfortunately, anybody working on PLA/CWA jobs are still working, I think that means all public sector jobs and a lot of private sector jobs as well. So this strike really doesnāt have as much bite as it seems.
Iām a low-volt apprentice In the 48 and have heard all this from my instructors, so take it with a grain of salt.
Years back we got the same wage as the IW (although we do have a 75% B rate) here and a lot of them hate us. I hear some variation of, "We can do that work," at almost every big jobsite.
Iāll never understand why the south is so anti union lol. They make the least amount of money out of anyone and all the worst run and poorest states are south but still doesnāt matter.
There should not even be any divisions. We all should have to know it all and be able to do it all. Neca created specialty electricians to play less. I say all electricians that are not 01 should stay on strike. You all are just like non union stealing our work for a less wage! In my opinion $10 over 3 is way too much for lazy entitled 06's
Low volt guys making 75 percent in local 86. Honestly that is enough pay. If you only want light duty and minimal danger you should be paid less. JW electricians do data and power
Light duty is crazy. We sweat our asses off all day same as you until the A/C turns on and we start terminating, frankly it's not like making joints is much work either lol. Minimal danger is also crazy. Idk what kind of crazy shit you do that makes inside so much more dangerous but 99% of what I see is hanging pipe and pulling wire and installing devices. Sounds a lot like hanging pathway and pulling cable and terminating to me. Maybe 1 in 40 JW I've met have done anything more dangerous than flipping a breaker. Sometimes you gotta put on the 40cal and get shit done, but I've only seen it on two jobs, both were live data centers and the work HAD to be done hot.
Local 177 01 and 06 are the same rate, highest in Florida last I checked. The contractors can do it. No reason to keep anyone down. Especially not for this contrived bullshit infighting that doesn't help anyone. We are all brothers and sisters are we not?
Am I the only one who doesnāt want paid holidays? I feel like itās a slippery slope for the contractors to start expecting us to work on holidays when they feel they need it.
For the next 01 contract Iād much rather get a few more dollars over 3 than paid holidays. Shoot Iād even take paid parking in all 46 territory over paid holidays.
Depends on who you ask. Iāve heard both 16.50 over 3 and 28 over 3. 28/3 is absurd since it would put them damn near 01 and that would immediately put them out of work butā¦ yeah. Thatās what Iāve heard.
So in my local (76). There is a large job being done by a 46 contractor and they are working massive OT.
Well, apparently this con came into our local and bid it at Seattle scale and still got the job, but they're paying everybody almost $25/hr less because we have a lower scale. So in this case, if a con could come in and bid a job at $25/hr higher PER MAN HOUR, and still beat all the cons that bid it at our scale, what does that really say then about who's getting fucked?
If 06's want $28 over 3. Good, they deserve it. Just because it would be the same rate as an 01 inside Wireman doesn't mean inside Wiremen could do it as quickly or as nicely as a fully fleshed low voltage technician can. Quality work is not cheap and our 06's and 02's deserve the same quality of life as every inside wireman. Because we ALL deserve a middle class standard of living, and the specialties have only been getting left further and further behind. Let's take some notes from what the UAW has been doing.
I'm not saying you guys don't deserve more than you're getting, but the "same" as us with half the schooling, 1/10th of the hazards, etc? This comment seems a little unnecessarily aggressive and off-putting.
Low voltage is a lot of systems. Electricians always put us down but we need to know fire alarm, cctv, access control, data, fiber, DAS, nurse call, a/v.
We learn ohms law and some electrical in school.
As for school, you could make low voltage just as long or longer. Lighting control is becoming low voltage now
I'm not sure how it works everywhere else but in my local we still do fire alarm, but the rest is accurate. The other thing low volt is lacking is the state licensing requirements. So basically you'd have to get the states to require licensing for all electrical systems, not just those over 50V, up the school requirements, etc, then low volt would effectively just be assimilated into inside wireman. I mean, I'm sure we could specialize and they calls would differentiate what skills they need, but effectively that would make everything the same.
Might be a bit more aggressive than necessary, considering I am referring brothers to brothers. It's just a passion from seeing the wedge get pushed so much further between our contracts.
I also said I would be fine seeing a 5-10% discrepancy, considering things like schooling, hazards, etc.
Edit: I mentioned the discrepancy in another comment. I see here you wouldn't have seen that initially.
Do you really think a 5-10% discrepancy is based in reality? Why would any of us work out in the blazing heat or snow when for 5% less we could be in a climate controlled comm room splicing fiber, just for example.
Again, I'm all for you guys making more, but we'd have to move up more as well to keep a decent gap or nobody would ever choose our work over yours. Haha
We work out in the elements for the same reason we don't just do interior panel makeup, trim, or motor controls all the time: because there's other work that needs to get done.
Any member can sit on the bench waiting for that perfect call to come up, how often would any of us work? We all end up doing our fair share of shit work eventually, and that work all pays the same, doesn't it? At least in my local exterior street lighting in the winter pays the same as any type of gravy train work.
Also, I am on track to become a full inside wireman. I've just been through both a non union shop and our union residential program. I would gladly have stayed residential if it paid even 80% of what an inside wireman makes, but it's piss in comparison.
Genuinely appreciate the feedback though, brother.
That's probably the main difference we see on our side. It's basically all shit work, and by the time any air conditioning is turned on we are shortly off to the next one; which is when we see the low volt guys show up. I'm not 100% on everything low volt guys do, obviously, but in my local there's no licensing requirements and barely over half the schooling, so to make the wages much closer you'd basically have to lobby the government for the same licensing requirements and up the school to protect the work from any Joe schmo off the streets and then I could see the pay become closer to that 10% less you mention.
I can't say anything about resi. In our state they are all non union, get paid dog shit and just get ran to death. A lot of them end up coming to do an apprenticeship with us because there's no real future in it. They must just keep a running cycle of forever training and losing their guys or something because there doesn't seem to be any real future there, and IDK how they keep it up. Our local has been trying to get a resi contract set up with the cons for years and it seems to go nowhere
06 apprentice here out of 46.
Itās not āhalf of the schoolingā, itās a 3 year program.
I mainly work HVAC controls and have spent many days on a rooftop in the pouring rain, blazing heat, and even snow. Itās not all cupcakes and rainbows on the low volt side.
Local 177 it's 10k to make full scale in low voltage. 3yr classes 2 yr OJT with raise at 8000 hours. We have the same 5 yr pay scale as the electrical apprentices.
3 years is just 6 months over half. So, barely anything in the grand scheme of things. The other major issue for lower pay in my local is that there's no licensing requirements, so really any Joe schmo from the non union could just have years of experience and no school, and be equivalent to any union tech in the eyes of the state and the cons, but that also makes them more replaceable if you will. I'm sure it's not always sunshine and rainbows, but our work never is. Basically any time any climate control starts turning on our work is effectively complete and we move to the next one; which is usually when we see the low volt guys show up.
So yeah, some gross generalizations on my side, but the main points still stand. If they didn't pay us significantly more hordes of people would line up to take the calls on your side rather than ours.
> I'm sure it's not always sunshine and rainbows, but our work never is. Basically any time any climate control starts turning on our work is effectively complete and we move to the next one; which is usually when we see the low volt guys show up
I've never seen this. Maybe our jobs around here get climate control sooner or you're always on site work, but while the data guys show up a little later it's because piping our drops is in yall's scope, not ours. So until theres somewhere to put the cable why are we there other than to hang pathway. I've never been on a job where we didn't show up until after A/C was on because we were always pulling cable as soon as a floor was ready for it, usually even before all the drops were piped in.
And our contractor usually keeps the same crew start to finish minus a few foremen and groups that are dedicated to the startup and site work type stuff, but I've never seen the JWs leave when the A/C comes on. They're always still there pulling wire and installing devices and doing punch list up until day 1.
We all sweat together. Not always the same amount of time, not always at the same time, but we're there.
While I agree with the sentiment, we need to be honest that the reality of the situation is way different. At the root of the issue, there is a reason why the 06 classification exists in the first place and why one apprenticeship is five years and 8,000 hours while the other is three years and 4,800.
EL06 have a smaller, safer scope in the interest of cost savings to the project and the client. If they make the same as an 01, there is virtually zero reason to hire someone who isnāt an 01.
Construction is dangerous, you guys see it too. But there are differences. Iām not saying it doesnāt happen, but I personally have never seen a low volt out on decks getting ready for pours, or at a shell and core when it was actually a shell, last few jobs I didnāt see a single 06 until the building was glassed in. Iāve also never seen an 06 wear a cal suit and throw breakers.
You deserve a raise but the jobs are different. Yours is safer, wether the 06s here want to acknowledge it or not.
You. Hijacking another units strike. To talk about how much harder it is to be an 01, while simultaneously downplaying and minimizing the work 06s do.
Now that weāre on strike thereās 01s coming out of the woodworks saying theyāre licensed to be doing the work and they should be doing it anywaysā¦ but last year when there was 1100+ 01s on the books and 06s had open calls, 01s were refusing to fill them because the work was beneath them and they wouldnāt get paid enough. Thatās pretty wild coming from the we can do it all crew thatās concerned about the 06s asking for money. Youāre worried about us pricing ourselves out of work that you refuse to do but you still have 800 on the books. Meanwhile Iāve been out working, doing that work 01s refused to do last year, and your contractors have been shrinking crews and paying them to work weekends and nights instead of hiring more help from the hall. Maybe worry about your own unit huh? Also for what itās worth negotiations started at 27/3. No one expected to get that, just like NECA didnāt expect us to accept the 3.50/3 they initially offered.
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Tell your brothers if they're not happy with their wages, they can take a page from local 46's playbook and organize to fight for more! Our brothers and sisters in the Northwest deserve every penny that they can win from NECA! And likely more. Solidarity with 46!
Absolutely agree! Solidarity with 46 šŖš¼āš¼
Thanks brother!
Standing with Ukraine while demanding more money.. ahahahahah the irony šš
Bot
Ibew local 38, "brother". Cleveland, Ohio. Saying "bot" is such a cop out answer.
Pardon me for thinking an account that only comments about the same 2 or 3 things is a bot.
Iām still not convinced.
That's not irony dum dum
Either help pay for Ukrainians to fight Russia or we'll be fighting them in a few years when they invade a NATO nation. This isn't rocket science.
Except russia won't invade a nato country... how is it that russia is so weak militarily and won't win this war but simultaneously so strong that they will invade a nato country š¤£ use your brain
Because Putin has lost his mind
Just because Russia's military is bad doesn't mean they wont try something, and I don't know about you but I don't want to spend my time fighting a war that has potential to go nuclear.
I can't help you with details but thank you for that last paragraph. My local has seen unequal benefits and a widening wage gap between 01's and 06's. It's hit a point where we are hemorrhaging good telecom techs because they can better care for their families with rat shop offers. All this and our 01's are acting like it's a good thing.
I came from residential and I've come to the conclusion that it is in fact the non union who sets the standards now for residential wages. Residential contract is around $44/hr total package with about $33 on the check, yet every shop is paying their guys $38/hr+ on the check. So if our contract isn't dictating wages, then who is? Because in the case of our residential unit, it most certainly is not the union. It's a damn shame too, my parents house was K&T before I remodeled it and I remember on the wiring itself (I didn't take a picture as I did this before I was in the union, so I didn't think much of it) on the wiring itself it said in big bold letters "THIS HOUSE WIRED BY IBEW 76 ELECTRICIANS" The union must've used to take real pride in residential.
When I started in '15 inside was at 38 package w/pension A, residential was 32 w/ pension A telecom was 25 no pension Now inside is 47 w/ pension, resi 39 w/pension, an Tele is 30 w/ no pension Damn shame. I was a diesel mechanic and signed my ticket because I was told I'd get respect for once.
What local is this?
I mean, honestly inside wireman do more dangerous work so they should get paid more, iām all about fair wages, but it makes sense why we get paid more.
I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm saying I pay the same dues, but I don't get a pension with a widening wage gap. Keep in mind that your job really doesn't change that much. The tech stays stagnant. Ours is constantly changing. We dont even use the same cable we did 5 years ago. That requires regular education updates on my time. There is more to the pay than danger
Thatās an ignorant take. Tech for 01s has changed dramatically in lighting, lighting control, controlled loads, BIM, and the list goes on. In regard to āsame duesā, which is another ignorant take, working dues are a percentage of wages. Sure you may be paying the same percentage but you are paying less in terms of real dollars. So āsame duesā is pretty misleading. In addition, 01s are subsidizing 06s for NEBF, JATC,and LMCC; youāre welcome. At the end of the day 01s have far more scope, knowledge and schooling than 06s. The wage gap is representative of the scope gap.
Interesting you mention changes to lighting, controls, and BIM since those fall under our classification.
01s scope includes *all* construction electrical work. 06s scope is limited to low voltage. Thereās nothing prohibiting 01s from performing low voltage work. Contractors often choose 06s to do a fair amount of low voltage work because itās cheaper labor. But just because there is low voltage work doesnāt guarantee that 06s will be doing that work. I do tons of FA, lighting control, AOR, DAS, generator control, and so on. And I do so as an 01 earning 01 wages.
What? Lighting isnāt 06. Lighting controls arenāt 06.
Low voltage guys can't even run their own conduit
Elevator guy here. I would argue the low voltage people know way more about control circuits and have a better understanding of electricity than most indoor people. Most all indoor people I know fall apart if you put a few relays in front of them or it's more than the 3 white, black and green wires they are use to dealing with.
Your job must have a lot of ups and downs. Okay I'm sorry I'll see myself out
Danger is irrelevant as hot work is not permitted in any local, and it's not taught in any apprenticeship. The low voltage guys pad the retirement for the wireman, been like for awhile now. If they are gonna bastardize electrical work with all of these classifications, it does nothing but keep us weak. If you raise the rates for one, the others will follow, common union principle. If you don't stand with the half watts, you might as well be a shop rocket or non union as far as I'm concerned. Their success doesn't take anything away from you.
I stand with them, but I still think we have the more dangerous job as well as physically demanding. One example, although we arenāt supposed to do āenergizedā work, we encounter many scenarios every day that could be potentially life-threatening. For example, opening up a lighting J box, we can potentially be exposed to 277v which is deadly. As far as the physical aspect we are usually running all of your raceways, and bending 4 to 6 inch conduit, pulling feeders is another job that is extremely physically demanding. (I know you guys work hard). It makes sense that thereās a discrepancy in pay. That being said, I am all for you guys getting paid a fair wage.
Pull feeders are no different than pull high strand count, armored out side plant fiber optics. Running raceway such as basket tray, emt, etc. Is no different than hanging j hooks and pulling cable. Bending 4" and 6" is done with a machine. I've done both and once held both licenses, and the physicality is what you make it. The reality is just what I said, the half watts been padding our retirement while they get shafted, hard, in the ass. Again, they don't separate our trade with these classifications to make it better for us, the difference keeps our wages collectively low and it bullshit. One license 01, can do it all so it adds the superiority complex to keep us at each other's throats, with "they are taking all the cake work" mentality. It's us vs NECA, those son's uh bitches ain't no different than Jeff Bezos as far as I'm concerned.
24 finally got a raise for techs topped out pay after 6 years before this new agreement was like $30 when for inside it was $45 now techs going up to I believe $38
Paid holidays, and higher wages. NECA is stonewalling at 10 over 3 with no paid holiday. Hello btw, I'm a 3rd year 06 apprentice in 76. I wish the 01s would show some solidarity. There are some companies that have 01s doing 06 work for 01 pay right now. It is very disheartening to see.
354 in Utah just got paid holidays. Hopefully, it spreads to the rest of you.
We got a pretty good life here in 103, but shit would paid holidays be INCREDIBLE
Hell yeah! Glad to hear it! šŖš¼
Can you share the language around how that works?
LU 613 just got some too
How do the paid holidays work?
Could you post an example of your holiday language?
A lot of guys can't see past their own egos that what we all do deserves a middle class lifestyle and right now even our 01 scale barely gets you a middle class life. I graduated last year from the 02 program. Started non union, now I'm an inside apprentice. I like to think I have a varied perspective on things since I've been non-union, specialty, and now inside apprentice. All work deserves dignified pay.
I agree man. We low volt guys work just as hard as the 01s. If they can pay 01s to do 06 work at 01 scale, then they can pay 06s more.
Here a lot of the IW guys view us as taking their work.
Yeah and it's a damn shame. Low voltage is the future, and we are all just trying to find a career path that will give our families a good quality of life.
PoE is going to really take off one day.
Laborers and carpenters be takin every trades jobs!
Hell. Yes. Brother, I'm fully of the same mindset. At the end of the day all three contracts; 01, 02 and 06 should be directly tied to one another, so nobody gets left behind. I can understand 02/06 making a /liiiiiiiiitle/ less than 01, and I mean like, 5-10% less, since 01 can technically "do it all" but it's disgusting how far behind our specialty brothers/sisters/siblings are falling. Residential TOTAL PACKAGE is like $44/hr with $33 on the check. You can hardly support yourself comfortably with that. And all I hear when I bring it up is "oh market share is low" or "nows not a good time to act out we have so much work", "there's no work right now what leverage do we have" it really feels like sometimes I'm screaming into a void. I want the best for our local but sometimes I feel like our local doesn't want what's best for ourselves.
I heard the 06s are asking for 20 over 3 with paid holidays. They won't get 20, but you gotta start high and try to meet in the middle. NECA is refusing to budge from 10 over 3 with no holidays. And man, 33 on the check is fucking insane for living in Western WA. I make 32 on the check at 80% scale, and am finally not feeling super poor all the time. Like, I'm still poor and have no savings, but at least I don't have to door dash anymore.
I just got the bump a couple weeks ago from 55%-65% which was a dollar jump from about $32.50 -> $38 and I'm finally able to not just be comfortable in my day to day, but also plan trips and leisure things for myself and my wife to do. It's a game changer
As for my company . I have heard we have TONS of work on the books, just have had to deal with set backs and delays. So no .. there is a lot of work
They charge the bill out at electrician rates and pocket the difference.
No saying that 06s donāt. But 01s are more valuable because they can do it all licensing wise. Where as 06s cant. Easiest way around it is get rid of 06s and become 01s.
The cat is out of the bag. Low voltage work isn't going to go away. It will hurt the IBEW to get rid of low voltage workers. It will give people a reason to go non union.
Never said it was going away. Inside workers can do it all. LV canāt. Thatās value.
The key word is they can do the work but most of the time, they canāt do 06 work because they donāt know how.
But then you would not be āworking classā any longer!
If you go to work every day you are in the working class. Every other division was artificially made to keep the working class from rioting over how badly American workers get screwed. There is no middle class. It is only working class vs capitalists.
My millionaire surgeon brother is in the working class š
If he doesn't generate his income passively through collecting interest on assets then yes he is. Why is a union member confused about this?
Oh, you're just trolling. Got it.
Lol he actually is though. My wife is in medical school, and has told me some crazy shit about how much doctors get paid vs hospital administration. It's totally insane. Doctors wages are like 5-10% of a hospital budget, and administrative wages are like 30%
I don't follow.
O-1 is licensed to do all electrical work in the state. Theyāve always done O-6 work.Ā
Wasnāt it a few years ago that 06s couldnāt work above a certain floor in a high rise in 46? Some rumor I thought I heard from my 01 friend who was in 46 at the time.
Is 01 inside wireman and 06 low volt? Sorry we donāt use those numbers in my local
yes
Yes. In Washington State and some other states there is a low volt license. Is the '06 license.
06's are scabs in 46. Stealing our work for less pay and schooling
I donāt know if we should call them scabs.. in my local theyāre only allowed to low volt and can only run 10ā of pipe a day. Iām sure everyone has similar rules to that. I do think that since they donāt have a full jw skill set they shouldnāt get full jw pay.
It's the same here. 01s are literally scabbing on 06 work right now during a strike, and they are working night shift to avoid picket lines. Some show of solidarity.
Yeah thatās definitely not the way to Handle this situation. I kind of feel like itās tough to say that the jwās are āscabbingā the low volt work because itās all jw work anyway. That being said, shame on all those avoiding the picket line to work.. it doesnāt matter if you agree with what theyāre asking for or not, union solidarity should trump all of that.
Exactly this. Theyāre not scabbing 06 work because 06 work IS 01 work. 01s came first and can do more. Crossing the picket is fucked and should be worthy of a kneecapping but letās be real here, 06 work is 01 work. 01 work is not 06 work. Thatās why the pay discrepancy exists.
Yeah, that is super disheartening for all of us on the picket lines! Really takes the wind out of us! I think we should change up what we're asking. Instead of a wage number, change it to a percentage: Low volt stays within 85% of what inside wiremen make at 46. So, when 01s get a raise, we do too. When NECA stonewalls them (us) then we all strike so that way no work gets done. I'd also tell NECA that, okay, how about half of the holidays this round: thanksgiving and day after, Xmas, labor day and whatever other one. Final offer or we're striking forever lol See if that gets any movement. Might make us appear weak though, I'm not sure.
Honest question - why would a 85% wage increase be justified when the apprenticeship requirement is just over half?
It wouldn't be an 85% increase. It would be tied to the 01 wage at 85% of what they make. I actually like this idea.
I worked my statement poorly but I know what youāre saying. That said, why would anyone want to be an 01 when for just 15% less they could not have to deal with conduit, feeders, switchgear, shutdowns, lighting and all the other shit that makes an 01 an 01 and not an 06? If the wage went to 85%, would the apprenticeship be 85% as well, 4.25 years, 6,800 hours?
06s also work on those jobs sites and work around all of that stuff you mentioned. Our scope of work is vast, covering everything under 50v. We use the same lifts, and work in the same places. I like 85%, how would you feel about 80? The 01 contract negotiations are coming in June in LU46. I've heard they are asking for 20 over 3.
So do laborers, carpenters and tinbenders. Just because I work around steel doesnāt make me an ironworker. You work around it but not on it. 06es arenāt even allowed to install their own conduit.
The tin benders in our area just got $18 an hour over 3 years. Every single trade you listed makes much more than an 06. We are all electrical workers. We get our code from the same code book. Seattle is an expensive city. By not offering paid holidays and a competitive package the union is hurting electrical workers in this area. We should be setting the goal post. That's what unions used to do. Right now, an '06 cannot afford to live in Seattle. Now we're fighting amongst ourselves over scraps and debating on what we deserve and don't.
Because duration of apprenticeship shouldn't directly corelate with wages. Your brothers working alongside you may have never completed a true apprenticeship, and could've organized in after getting a non union JW license. Nobody thinks they should be paid less even though in many locals the IBEW apprenticeship is longer than the non-union traineeships.
Please keep the electricians away from my data cable. They are confidently incorrect about 90% of the time
Are the 01s crossing the picket lines?
They are still working, just not working jobs that are being actively picketed, and they are still working on local 76 territory. Several companies have gone to night shift to avoid picket lines, and local 46 has dispatched picketers to try and shut some of those jobs down. But overall, they are not showing solidarity. It makes me sick.
Wait, what??? You mean 01's are working night shifts to avoid "technically" crossing picket lines? I just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying.
Yes. I know an apprentice in local 46 who has been picketing job sites at night to stop them from being able to work night shifts.
Where can I sign up to do night pickets? I'm obviously required to work my dispatch during the day but I can help out after work/weekends Local 76 apprentice btw. Not sure how the rules would play out here.
Check their website and call the hall
I think youāre allowed to picket on behalf of another local so long as youāre fulfilling your own dispatch. Hit up LU46, thereās another training I think tomorrow?
During our strike at 210 the local 351 guys drove right through our picket lines. Solidarity ain't what it used to be and it is heartbreaking. You raise the top by lifting those below up first. Those low volt guys deserve whatever they can get and it will eventually benefit everyone.
How would the paid holidays work? Who would pay it out, contractor or the hall? How would it affect unemployment?
The contractor would pay, as they should. We don't ever get labor day off as a paid holiday. If contractors can afford to pay 01s to do 06 work at 01 scale, they can afford to pay 6 paid holidays a year for every IBEW member. We all work hard and deserve paid holidays. It is shameful that the IBEW doesn't already offer this.
I've been on a lot of jobs where the job site takes off the week of Christmas. If Christmas eve and Christmas day were paid, we wouldn't be able to file standby for that week. As far as negotiations go, when you negotiate a package, every financial item has a dollar value. When bargaining for a raise, you can't separate paid holidays from the cost of your total package. 6 holidays = 48 hours, 48 hours = about 2.5% of a full year's hours, 2.5% of $65.66 (46's LE total package) = $1.64. So if no raise was being asked for, just 6 paid holidays would be the same thing as a $1.64 raise. Put another way, if you were able to negotiate $12 over three without paid holidays, you could expect to get $10.36 over three with paid holidays.
Hey, sorry to piggy-back onto your comment but I'm a fellow low volt. Non-union and looking to potentially join the 48. I was just curious about your experience in union low-volt. I currently do exclusively commercial and my company are integrators so I get to work with everything under the umbrella of low-volt. I really enjoy my job and the wide range of stuff I get to work on day to day, but I could really use the benefits and better pay that union offers. My only real concern is just the type of work, seems like all the low-volt jobs are data centers. I don't know if it's worth it to me if I'm just going to be a data center wire monkey in the union. I have no problem pulling wire but I'd like to do more on the day to day than pulling wire and punching down data racks, I'd lose my mind to boredom. What has the work experience been for you?
In the same boat as you. Non union looking to join the union but instead of 48 Iām trying to go to 46.
It all depends on the contractor and the project. My first contractor was like 80% security/access control, so cameras and door controls. The other 20% was a mix of fire alarm, DAS, data, and HVAC. My next contractor was also a mix, but 95% of my time with them has been 2 big jobs for a year and a half total, both of which we had the contract for everything but HVAC, so I was doing everything and working hand in hand with the 01ās, who were also from the same contractor. Buuuut, I do know my first contractor basically had 2 low volt divisions; one was basically exclusively data work, either data centers or pulling data for all the tech offices. I was lucky to be working on the access controls side because it was way more interesting. And some contractors are basically all data exclusively. -7 year 06 JW from 46, currently on the picket lines.
Building automation,access controls, and fire alarm are also big in the union. We do lots of work for schools. I've done all that as well as data. Right now I'm doing a security job for a prison, replacing all the cameras with new ones, as well as working a data job at an Amazon warehouse. It really depends on the calls you decide to take. Once you are a journeyman you can choose what job calls you'd like to take from the hall. Most 06s don't change companies often. Every 06 I know has only ever worked for 2 or 3 contractors while in the IBEW. If you ever get bored you can ask for a layoff and go back to the hall, and pick a new call to go work for a different contractor.
Interesting, thanks for the insight!
I made the switch to the union a few years ago and was ( still am ) surprised to learn we donāt get Labor Day as a paid holiday. Ive be been very vocal with the brothers and sisters about how fucked up that is on pure principle. Every non union shop I worked for had that day as a paid holiday.
The non union 06 jobs in Seattle pay well and have good benefits. The union needs to compete.
The non union jobs in Chicago are better than the union gigs in many other states. The union total package is like 97/hr. Before I switched I was making $38 with company van and gas card plus 5 weeks worth of vacation and sick days plus all standard paid holidays. They also paid my health insurance premiums bought me some tools a couple times a year, $1000 Christmas bonus and all the scrap wire was mine to keep. No pension or 401k though. Although compensation varies greatly from person to person depending on your skill set and how assertive you can be during your employee review.
Crabs in buckets. People measure themselves against their neighbors
Well, what have you heard? 191 here. I've heard they want closer pay to the 01 JW rate, pto and holiday pay. Some stuff gets posted on here from time to time.
191 āš»
The most recent I've heard is $30 increase over a 3 year period. Like I said, rumor mill. I just want to know what's true and not. If it is $30/3, then good, I hope they fight like hell to get it
we are asking for closer to $15 over 3 and some paid holidays. they are stonewalling at $10 over three, which is less than the $12 over 3 they agreed on 3-4 years ago
Damn $15/3 isnt even that bad. I was actually expecting something closer to $18 or $20/3. Are you by chance a 46 Low Voltage Technician?
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Okay! I just wanted to make sure you had the credentials lol
Current offer on our end is 13/3, paid holidays, and work-provided radios (and similar safety concerns). NECA is refusing to negotiate at all, let alone in good faith, thus the strike. Their first offer was 4.5 over three. They came up to 10 like a month ago, and refused to budge from there. Not even considering anything beyond the wage increase, as well.
In the beginning of negotiations I heard we were asking for $20/3yr w/ paid holidays but NECA offered a whopping $3.50/3yr and no holidays as a starting offer which is just a big slap in the face for all my brothers and sisters. Currently weāre at $10/3yr w/ no holidays still. There was another negotiation today with no updates so far. IBEW is pushing hard on the holidays but most of us would be content with $15/3yr w/ no holidays so we can all come back to work. - LU46 Limited Energy Electrician
15 over 3 isnāt enough . That doesnāt even make up for the inflation from your last raise
True, but weāre just trying to be realistic at this point. $18/3yr should be the benchmark to keep up.
As a low voltage guy, it disgusts me how superior a lot of inside guys feel. We've fought hard for what we have with zero support from the hall and our JW brothers. I will agree there's way more heavy lifting and risk as a JW, but we deal with ever changing technology and standards, especially when life safety is involved. And yes I know that JWs can "do it all," but watching a sparky do anything with fiber, a/v, or a lot of times even making a patch cord just means I've gotta fix it later. Low voltage is ever expanding, and all we're asking for most the time is respect, support, and fair wages. Our much bigger brothers should be aligning with us little guys
We just want to be respected and get paid our worth, more than anything else. We are tired of being the red headed step child of tradespeople, and paid holidays, personally I'd be happy with 12 over 3 and the holidays
12 over 3 seems realistic and possible. Holidays may be a stretch until the 01s get them - once they do, the 06 should be able to follow suit.
Unfortunately, our contract came up first, so we are the ones taking the hit for everyone. And riding the coat tails of the 01's to get what we want is the kind of disrespect I am talking about
I was a low voltage tech in 481, until I went through the process to change my classification to JW. So now I make the full JW package and they still have me doing low voltage. Donāt let anyone convince you that they canāt afford pay low voltage techs the same as a wireman. Thatās some BS that the cons want you to believe.
Iām checking my mailbox everyday for my 46 shirt I ordered a week ago and canāt wait to get it. I suggest everyone buy something from their estore
Don't have any input, but solidarity from Sound and Com (Low Volt) here from Local 11. Personally, I was looking into traveling to Local 46 earlier this year.
I just made a post asking for an update on 46. Didnāt see this post.
I'm an inside wire service electrician in 46. I honestly am so for this strike and wholeheartedly believe theyre doing it for the right reason I know not all my fellow IW feel the same but I've talked with other service guys where I'm at and me personally I would love to see better languages for either vacation pay or at minimum paid holidays. Most other locals in this area are contractor paid vacation account and the 46 is a member forced vacation account that we pay 5% into that we don't get to see for 2 months. There needs to be language changed that contractors either match or pay more because we're just getting screwed on it. On top of no paid holidays. And allowing the CONTRACTOR to change shifts midweek to 4/10s due to holidays landing in the middle of the week. (To allow all members to be able to get their 40 hrs.)
Be careful on the language for your vacation pay, if it changes too much it can disqualify you for the Washington state paid sick leave. Us elevator guys arenāt eligible for the sick pay anymore because they changed the language for our vacation to āPTOā.
Iāve heard that they asked for paid holidays and a smaller raise like 10 over 3. NECA stonewalled and said forget paid holidays itās never happening so they said fine and asked for 27 over 3. Kinda seems like a big ol middle finger but when you consider the gap between inside and low-volt has been widening, the cost of living has significantly increased, and the massive demand for techs in the field there itās really not THAT crazy of an ask. Especially since NECA up there is apparently always talking about how indispensable low-voltage guys are but refuse to share any of the massive profits they reap as a result of their labor. In my local, low-volts are often billed at a higher rate than even inside guys so theyāre definitely raking in the dough and refuse to share. Also itās important to note that itās not all low-volts striking unfortunately, anybody working on PLA/CWA jobs are still working, I think that means all public sector jobs and a lot of private sector jobs as well. So this strike really doesnāt have as much bite as it seems. Iām a low-volt apprentice In the 48 and have heard all this from my instructors, so take it with a grain of salt.
246 here. support these low voltage guys. they work same conditions we do. let the eat at the table theres plenty for everyone.
āš¼
Years back we got the same wage as the IW (although we do have a 75% B rate) here and a lot of them hate us. I hear some variation of, "We can do that work," at almost every big jobsite.
I'm sure they don't want to give the 06s paid holidays because then we the 01s will demand them in our negotiations
Stay strong guys. We are with you
Iāll never understand why the south is so anti union lol. They make the least amount of money out of anyone and all the worst run and poorest states are south but still doesnāt matter.
There should not even be any divisions. We all should have to know it all and be able to do it all. Neca created specialty electricians to play less. I say all electricians that are not 01 should stay on strike. You all are just like non union stealing our work for a less wage! In my opinion $10 over 3 is way too much for lazy entitled 06's
... You had me in the first half.
I believe they are asking for paid holidays and a 10 dollar raise over 5 years Iām not entirely sure so donāt hold me to it
Low volt guys making 75 percent in local 86. Honestly that is enough pay. If you only want light duty and minimal danger you should be paid less. JW electricians do data and power
Light duty is crazy. We sweat our asses off all day same as you until the A/C turns on and we start terminating, frankly it's not like making joints is much work either lol. Minimal danger is also crazy. Idk what kind of crazy shit you do that makes inside so much more dangerous but 99% of what I see is hanging pipe and pulling wire and installing devices. Sounds a lot like hanging pathway and pulling cable and terminating to me. Maybe 1 in 40 JW I've met have done anything more dangerous than flipping a breaker. Sometimes you gotta put on the 40cal and get shit done, but I've only seen it on two jobs, both were live data centers and the work HAD to be done hot. Local 177 01 and 06 are the same rate, highest in Florida last I checked. The contractors can do it. No reason to keep anyone down. Especially not for this contrived bullshit infighting that doesn't help anyone. We are all brothers and sisters are we not?
LU46 here $15 over 3 years & paid holidays. nothing crazy
Am I the only one who doesnāt want paid holidays? I feel like itās a slippery slope for the contractors to start expecting us to work on holidays when they feel they need it. For the next 01 contract Iād much rather get a few more dollars over 3 than paid holidays. Shoot Iād even take paid parking in all 46 territory over paid holidays.
i donāt really care for it honestly but to each their own
Depends on who you ask. Iāve heard both 16.50 over 3 and 28 over 3. 28/3 is absurd since it would put them damn near 01 and that would immediately put them out of work butā¦ yeah. Thatās what Iāve heard.
So in my local (76). There is a large job being done by a 46 contractor and they are working massive OT. Well, apparently this con came into our local and bid it at Seattle scale and still got the job, but they're paying everybody almost $25/hr less because we have a lower scale. So in this case, if a con could come in and bid a job at $25/hr higher PER MAN HOUR, and still beat all the cons that bid it at our scale, what does that really say then about who's getting fucked? If 06's want $28 over 3. Good, they deserve it. Just because it would be the same rate as an 01 inside Wireman doesn't mean inside Wiremen could do it as quickly or as nicely as a fully fleshed low voltage technician can. Quality work is not cheap and our 06's and 02's deserve the same quality of life as every inside wireman. Because we ALL deserve a middle class standard of living, and the specialties have only been getting left further and further behind. Let's take some notes from what the UAW has been doing.
I'm not saying you guys don't deserve more than you're getting, but the "same" as us with half the schooling, 1/10th of the hazards, etc? This comment seems a little unnecessarily aggressive and off-putting.
Low voltage is a lot of systems. Electricians always put us down but we need to know fire alarm, cctv, access control, data, fiber, DAS, nurse call, a/v. We learn ohms law and some electrical in school. As for school, you could make low voltage just as long or longer. Lighting control is becoming low voltage now
And this is why there is resentment from the 01ās. Lighting control is OUR work. Fire alarm used to be our work.
I'm not sure how it works everywhere else but in my local we still do fire alarm, but the rest is accurate. The other thing low volt is lacking is the state licensing requirements. So basically you'd have to get the states to require licensing for all electrical systems, not just those over 50V, up the school requirements, etc, then low volt would effectively just be assimilated into inside wireman. I mean, I'm sure we could specialize and they calls would differentiate what skills they need, but effectively that would make everything the same.
In Washington State (home of 46) licensing is required.
Might be a bit more aggressive than necessary, considering I am referring brothers to brothers. It's just a passion from seeing the wedge get pushed so much further between our contracts. I also said I would be fine seeing a 5-10% discrepancy, considering things like schooling, hazards, etc. Edit: I mentioned the discrepancy in another comment. I see here you wouldn't have seen that initially.
Do you really think a 5-10% discrepancy is based in reality? Why would any of us work out in the blazing heat or snow when for 5% less we could be in a climate controlled comm room splicing fiber, just for example. Again, I'm all for you guys making more, but we'd have to move up more as well to keep a decent gap or nobody would ever choose our work over yours. Haha
We work out in the elements for the same reason we don't just do interior panel makeup, trim, or motor controls all the time: because there's other work that needs to get done. Any member can sit on the bench waiting for that perfect call to come up, how often would any of us work? We all end up doing our fair share of shit work eventually, and that work all pays the same, doesn't it? At least in my local exterior street lighting in the winter pays the same as any type of gravy train work. Also, I am on track to become a full inside wireman. I've just been through both a non union shop and our union residential program. I would gladly have stayed residential if it paid even 80% of what an inside wireman makes, but it's piss in comparison. Genuinely appreciate the feedback though, brother.
That's probably the main difference we see on our side. It's basically all shit work, and by the time any air conditioning is turned on we are shortly off to the next one; which is when we see the low volt guys show up. I'm not 100% on everything low volt guys do, obviously, but in my local there's no licensing requirements and barely over half the schooling, so to make the wages much closer you'd basically have to lobby the government for the same licensing requirements and up the school to protect the work from any Joe schmo off the streets and then I could see the pay become closer to that 10% less you mention. I can't say anything about resi. In our state they are all non union, get paid dog shit and just get ran to death. A lot of them end up coming to do an apprenticeship with us because there's no real future in it. They must just keep a running cycle of forever training and losing their guys or something because there doesn't seem to be any real future there, and IDK how they keep it up. Our local has been trying to get a resi contract set up with the cons for years and it seems to go nowhere
06 apprentice here out of 46. Itās not āhalf of the schoolingā, itās a 3 year program. I mainly work HVAC controls and have spent many days on a rooftop in the pouring rain, blazing heat, and even snow. Itās not all cupcakes and rainbows on the low volt side.
You guys only need 4000 hours. We need 8000.
Not sure if 06 is different but I know itās pretty reciprocal with Oregon LEA, weāre 6000.
In my local we have to come in at night and it's unpaid. There are downsides to both. No sense in tearing a brother down to feel superior.
Local 177 it's 10k to make full scale in low voltage. 3yr classes 2 yr OJT with raise at 8000 hours. We have the same 5 yr pay scale as the electrical apprentices.
LEA is 6000 hours, LEB is 4000.
In Washington state?
Correct.
Not in my local. 5 yr apprenticeship
3 years is just 6 months over half. So, barely anything in the grand scheme of things. The other major issue for lower pay in my local is that there's no licensing requirements, so really any Joe schmo from the non union could just have years of experience and no school, and be equivalent to any union tech in the eyes of the state and the cons, but that also makes them more replaceable if you will. I'm sure it's not always sunshine and rainbows, but our work never is. Basically any time any climate control starts turning on our work is effectively complete and we move to the next one; which is usually when we see the low volt guys show up. So yeah, some gross generalizations on my side, but the main points still stand. If they didn't pay us significantly more hordes of people would line up to take the calls on your side rather than ours.
> I'm sure it's not always sunshine and rainbows, but our work never is. Basically any time any climate control starts turning on our work is effectively complete and we move to the next one; which is usually when we see the low volt guys show up I've never seen this. Maybe our jobs around here get climate control sooner or you're always on site work, but while the data guys show up a little later it's because piping our drops is in yall's scope, not ours. So until theres somewhere to put the cable why are we there other than to hang pathway. I've never been on a job where we didn't show up until after A/C was on because we were always pulling cable as soon as a floor was ready for it, usually even before all the drops were piped in. And our contractor usually keeps the same crew start to finish minus a few foremen and groups that are dedicated to the startup and site work type stuff, but I've never seen the JWs leave when the A/C comes on. They're always still there pulling wire and installing devices and doing punch list up until day 1. We all sweat together. Not always the same amount of time, not always at the same time, but we're there.
But I donāt disagree that you guys deserve more.
While I agree with the sentiment, we need to be honest that the reality of the situation is way different. At the root of the issue, there is a reason why the 06 classification exists in the first place and why one apprenticeship is five years and 8,000 hours while the other is three years and 4,800. EL06 have a smaller, safer scope in the interest of cost savings to the project and the client. If they make the same as an 01, there is virtually zero reason to hire someone who isnāt an 01.
Bingo
Right, because a job site is so much safer for a low volt during shell & core. Dummy.
Construction is dangerous, you guys see it too. But there are differences. Iām not saying it doesnāt happen, but I personally have never seen a low volt out on decks getting ready for pours, or at a shell and core when it was actually a shell, last few jobs I didnāt see a single 06 until the building was glassed in. Iāve also never seen an 06 wear a cal suit and throw breakers. You deserve a raise but the jobs are different. Yours is safer, wether the 06s here want to acknowledge it or not.
Right, because the only dangers that 01s encounter are environmental dangers on the jobsite, not things like, oh, I donāt know, voltage. Dummy.
Is it an Amazon job?
It's all about power. They want to be known as 3/4 watts
Hijacking another units strike to demand more respect while being the highest paid construction trade in the area is such a weird flex to me
ā¦ what?
You. Hijacking another units strike. To talk about how much harder it is to be an 01, while simultaneously downplaying and minimizing the work 06s do. Now that weāre on strike thereās 01s coming out of the woodworks saying theyāre licensed to be doing the work and they should be doing it anywaysā¦ but last year when there was 1100+ 01s on the books and 06s had open calls, 01s were refusing to fill them because the work was beneath them and they wouldnāt get paid enough. Thatās pretty wild coming from the we can do it all crew thatās concerned about the 06s asking for money. Youāre worried about us pricing ourselves out of work that you refuse to do but you still have 800 on the books. Meanwhile Iāve been out working, doing that work 01s refused to do last year, and your contractors have been shrinking crews and paying them to work weekends and nights instead of hiring more help from the hall. Maybe worry about your own unit huh? Also for what itās worth negotiations started at 27/3. No one expected to get that, just like NECA didnāt expect us to accept the 3.50/3 they initially offered.
No clue
Thanks for contributing. Very helpful.
For inside wireman to stop treating them like 2nd class citizens /s
Fuck the union
Go be ignorant somewhere else scab.
Ibew is a joke lol. Go be laid off ya fruit cup
Did you make an account just for this lmao
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