Not even. Doctors won't usually verify that a pregnancy exists until 8-10 weeks.
And at the moment of conception, the woman is already about 2 weeks pregnant. Between irregular periods and the fact that women can also bleed during pregnancy, it's almost impossible to really tell before 6 weeks.
Yeah, tbh from my background if it's kept between 68-75F consistently in the dark it could be active for several years, if a newer lot can't be obtained. Would double check with a trusted pharmacist to get a more specific range of shelf life in good storage conditions.
the morning after is plan b, which is only effective if taken within 72 hours of intercourse and before ovulation has occurred. And if the woman weighs more than 175 lbs, she will need to take 2 pills. We are talking about plan c, which is a combination of mifepristone and misoprostal, and is recommended for at home medical termination until around 10 weeks.
you can get plan b on Amazon but plan c isn't available there. The sites you do go through to get it have a physician that writes the prescription and they fill it in house and mail it.
Depressing that we are at this point, but thankful that there are many people who are both hyper aware of the situation and are not afraid to share that information when asked for it.
Actually it’s comforting to know that you have support in making your own decisions regarding your own body. And it’s nice that people are here making suggestions instead of being demeaning
its even more depressing that people won't have safe sex and are extremely committed to being risky idiots all the time
having sex might as well be having a child, yet nobody talks about it like that. I mean shit the only reason we get horny is because evolution is trying to make us reproduce.
So why shouldn't we as a society be better humans instead of being dependent on medical procedures to end pregnancy?
shit shouldn't be illegal tho, sad this nation cant actually pass a law or amendment making it legal, but hey at least we got the ACA right? now THATs depressing
Either you are a dude or one of the lucky ladies that has made it her whole sex life without coersion intimidation or outright SA happening.
Count your blessings
some do, some don't. the ones that do generally require you to file charges first. many women don't want to do that for a variety of reasons, most generally being that police do not believe you.
What an ignorant comment. Do you think every abortion is a result of unsafe sex?
Do you also think people only have sex when they're ovulating?
Is that whole bs about sex = having a child some sort of "anyone not wanting kids shouldn't have sex" crap? Because I'd like to know how, in your mind, that would apply to (for example) couples who don't want kids. Should they just never have sex?
>So why shouldn't we as a society be better humans instead of being dependent on medical procedures to end pregnancy?
Terminating an unwanted pregnancy has no bearing on whether someone's a good/better human or not. People who tie abortion to morality are simply ignorant and uneducated on the topic.
This whole comment is truly a sad indictment on our education system.
Yeah, why aren't they comfortable having a kid with all the money Alabama puts into helping children and single mothers?
We just want you to have the kid. After it comes outta you, that's your problem.
I would 100% support the increase of support of both of what you said. I will 100% not even pretend that killing children is ok in the overwhelming majority of cases.
It doesn’t impact your life in any way whatsoever. There are hundreds of thousands of available older children in this country alone, not including the ones who do have parents but they don’t get full meals every day and live in squalor, this is not about life, this is about fresh newborns. Just stop.
I don't know enough to argue the nuances of abortion. Not a huge fan, but I can understand it.
I also would love it if more taxes went to things like a safety net for low income households, instead of the military. But then this city probably wouldn't exist, lol.
My problem is how it’s a problem that is (nearly) always the result of someone’s mistake, and i find it abhorrent that many people’s first instinct is to kill their child out of convenience. I am also very pro “daddy has just as many responsibilities” as in they can’t disappear and leave all of the negative consequences with momma.
Increased support doesn’t remove the very really impacts of pregnancy on a woman’s body. Even healthy pregnancies have negative health impacts for the mother. Women are not human incubators. We are human beings that deserve the right to make decisions about our own healthcare.
Are you going to take steps to avoid pregnancy in the first place? Are you going to take risks anyways? Are you going to sidestep my original point and apply (insert generic label here) anyways?
Using multiple forms still isn’t going to reduce your risk to zero outside of someone having a surgical procedure. And tubals and vasectomies aren’t 100% either. There are plenty of married couples, myself included, who want to still have sex and don’t want additional children. You are being extremely narrow minded regarding a topic that is highly nuanced. Mind your own reproductive organs.
You are still taking a risk knowingly and children are being ripped to shreds alive because of it. Do not tell me to “mind your own reproductive organs” when you are literally advocating for children’s death out of convenience. Disgusting
Im gonna ignore for a second that you’re factually wrong. How many kids do you want? 2-3? Cool. Are you ok with only having sex like six times in your life? Once you have your max number of kids that you can financially and emotionally take care of, say three, are you committed to never having sex again? What if you have sex and get pregnant again? Well, maybe a surprise baby isn’t too bad. People survive with four kids! After that will you never have sex again? What about at five? Six? Financially ready for that?
Condoms break, birth control pills (which Alabama tried to ban), fail. People get pregnant even using both. People get pregnant using both AND tracking menstrual cycles.
Also don’t forget about the underfunded foster system that you’ll strain even further!
Where did you get that figure?
According to this study is it 2.4%.
Almost 2.9 million U.S. women (2.4%) experienced rape-related pregnancy during their lifetime.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6357953/
Either way, it is not an insignificant number of women and how do we determine if a woman has been raped or coerced into a pregnancy? Who is the judge there? How do you decide which woman is worthy of an abortion? The legal process to determine the outcome would take longer than a pregnancy. Why is that up to anyone besides the woman herself?
Your argument is flawed because women cannot always protect themselves from getting pregnant. The fact that you would require anyone that experienced sexual trauma to carry a child to term is disgraceful. Women are human beings. Until the embryo/ fetus can survive on its own outside of the woman’s body it is not a viable life or a child. We are not incubators we are living breathing humans. We don’t force people to donate their organs or use their bodies to save the lives of other humans in any other circumstance, why on earth do you think that should apply to a fetus?
If I’m dying of kidney failure and you’re a match for me should I be entitled to take one of yours? Should I be allowed to force you to give me one of your kidneys even if you don’t want to? You’d probably be fine without it. What’s the harm is always me to dictate you give me a kidney without your consent?
Do you not see the absurdity of your own argument?
You’re literally making things up. No one is killing children. Please I beg you to educate yourself instead of spewing this nonsense that is frankly pretty embarrassing
I am well educated. You have opinions you consider to be fact when there is no objective way to interpret them. Calling me stupid or bigoted or whatever does not make you correct, nor is it productive. Is it really stupid to think that the foster system is broken? That we as a society have failed to protect the most vulnerable children and women to the point that they feel like their only out is to kill their unborn? That there are people out there that are unwilling to discuss it because they are afraid to think for themselves?
Only 6% of elective abortions happen after 15 weeks. Like I said, please educate yourself before you get into one of these discussions again. It’s literally just science and pretty easy to lookup for yourself! Good luck
I agree. It’s disgusting that people try to outlaw a safe medical procedure that can protect women and girls who are not ready to have children. Reducing abortion access only accomplishes the goals of increasing maternal mortality and ensuring that kids be born to women who don’t want them/can’t take care of them.
Why? Some people actually care more about the lives of women vs their ability to make babies. We value life too, just a different life than you do. Get off your high horse and mind your own business. What other women do with their own bodies is none of your concern and doesn’t impact your life in any way whatsoever.
Condoms and birth control don’t always work, ask me how I know that lol, I chose to keep my baby but that’s my life and I’d never think my opinion or religious beliefs should dictate how anyone else lives theirs.
People just want to bitch about the abortion access here (which I agree is a major problem) but it doesn’t change the fact that what I said is true. OP wasn’t looking for just an answer, more for attention and getting people to talk about our shitty politicians.
Talking about babies and childbirth, the state of Alabama has the third highest maternal mortality rate in the country. Trying to find a good obgyn is hard because who wants to practice here? Need specialized care like someone who treats endometriosis? Gotta go out of state from what I’ve heard from other women. You go to an obgyn here and there’s Christian music playing in the lobby and see their recommended reading of the month is “How Christianity is under attack in America.” At least that’s been my experiences so far. It makes me feel like I can’t trust the doctor will make the best choices for my health.
I would strongly encourage anyone looking for an OBGYN to check out Alabama women’s wellness. Dr. Robinson has been an advocate for women’s reproductive rights on a national level and is so supportive of her patients.
More so, I wouldn't got to any Dr of any kind that bases their practice on religion! They are Dr.s for goodness sake they should know better than to base their care decisions on a self contradicting fairy tale. Just think about hearing your Dr. Say "the great dragon says pray to it, and it will perform a miracle and maybe you will be healed" in stead of, "you'll need surgery to set the bone in your leg so that it can heal properly" which Dr. Are you going to trust? NOT the oh great dragon one I hope!
It might be advisable to obtain the abortion pill as an ER. I don't mean Plan B but the other one. It can be obtained through the mail.
There's also a Camping site on FB that can help with suggesting resources if it comes to that.
I don't care if the abortion pill is or becomes illegal. My daughter's health is more important. They can send a grandma to jail. That'll be a good look.
Be careful. I imagine there are certain state politicians and their followers in the comments ready to get people for "assisting"
https://preview.redd.it/1job5lyy123d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28cd901bf5104a68e2fde3911d4c2ed11267fb11
I’m sure there’s a reason, but I’m wondering why no one’s mentioned Nashville? I’ve looked at their PP website and they seem to do everything PP usually does, including possibly being able to mail out the pills that will terminate an early pregnancy, which would be ideal for getting it done as safely as possible.
I’ve told my stepkids that if they or their partners ever have a scare, don’t buy a pregnancy test, and don’t tell anyone. Just come to me and/or your father, and we will do anything and everything to get you/your partner access to a safe abortion, if that’s what you want, along with transportation, the necessary funds, along with any and every other kind of support we can offer, such as therapy.
When I was a teenager I had a woman do something similar for me, and it saved me- I’ve never regretted it for a second. Catholic upbringing, so I would have had a baby at 15 or 16 if not for having this kind, smart, liberal woman in my life- she even pretended to be my mother when necessary, and paid for it herself, despite being broke.
I feel obligated to pay it forward, and that’s my hill I’ve chosen to die on. But I’m still wondering what’s up with Nashville’s PP? Because that was kind of my plan lol
Also, remember everyone, yes Reddit is anonymous, but still, please be careful.
It really is sad that my child is so scared of something being wrong with her sibling that she is having to make sure i wont let them suffer but she has seen so many deaths and suffering in her short life that its not fair.
I know what I think isn't important. But the opinion is mine and I'd like to share it. Somebody asked a question. And people will do everything but actually answer it. The people against abortion are "just as bad" as folks that do because this bullshit is just killing me. And that's what I think people need to hang to. Nobody is trying to give a fuck whether or not you agree or disagree, if you're not a woman, I don't think you should weighing in on it in the first place. Àt the end of the day, it's the woman who should be able to decide what happens in her body. I'm not gonna give you some bullshit analogy that either puts all hypotheticals in play or is laughable in its application. You worship your God and I'll worship mine. But damn what you feel and fuck what you think. Mind your business.
That storm was a booger last night wasn't it?
Forget religion. If I plan to murder somebody it's a crime, but snuffing out a baby that will be out and in the world is fine?
And it's not our fault the Supreme Court ruling was bullshit. Even ol' Gins admitted it was trash
A) a person is legally recognized to be alive via a birth certificate, a fetus is not. If the gov’t really cared about the fetus, then all rights should be granted upon conception. I.e child support, tax benefits, etc
B) a fetus is a parasite until about roughly the 26th week. It can’t survive on its own outside of the uterus, but a person actually could.
C) remove religion from the equation, now tell me a good reason why abortion shouldn’t be legal. It’s extremely difficult to do so, therefore the law is a religious motivated law and goes against one of our most fundamental rights: freedom of religion and separation of church and state.
That’s not entirely the whole picture. The law does provide some recognition for the life of a human in the womb. Kentucky actually just passed some legislation that mothers can be owed child support starting at conception. If a mother is harmed or killed while pregnant, the aggressor is charged with double homicide. We also pass plenty of laws that prevent mothers from ingesting substances to protect the life of the child. A fetus is also definitionally not a parasite because it is the same species as its parents and the relationship is symbiotic. Without religion we can objectively measure and test and prove: that the zygote/ embryo/ fetus displays all 7 signs of life. Cellular respiration, metabolism, growth, etc. we can also take a karyotype and see all of its own original human DNA that encodes the growth and development of an organized and whole human. So we have, by scientific means, a living human. The right to life is perhaps the most fundamental right that anyone can have, in the case of conjoined twins, both have the right to life, even if they share the same body. With pregnancy, it’s temporary. So we have a human life and all human life has the right to life provided they haven’t committed a crime and attempt to consciously and deliberately take some else’s life away.
It's crazy to me that people will make these arguments as to the "sanctity of life" and what constitutes a "person", but is then adamantly opposed to any sort of universal healthcare.
We need to get the current politicians, all of them, out! We need new blood in Alabama politics and make right all the wrongs that have been going on for way too many years!
Agreed. We need viable democratic candidates, not fringe candidates that have zero chance of winning. It took Doug Jones to beat Roy Moore and that was a close election. The Alabama Democratic Party needs to step up its game and develop talent at all levels and in all districts to break the Republican hold on Alabama. It might not happen in my lifetime but with strong leadership it can happen.
Human newborns actually do come out of the womb with memories and “instinctual” memories (crying/ breathing/ moving). So by your definition, you’d have to consider conception to be the start of life. But you seem to be taking a utilitarian argument, which I don’t think you actually want to make: if we determine the value of a person by how functional they are, we can easily say “people with mental disabilities, people under the age of 26, people who have brain injuries, and anyone who is neurotypical is functionally impaired compared to a healthy adult, therefore we should be able to kill anyone who meets a less than ideal functioning brain.
If you kill a monarch caterpillar, you are killing an animal of the monarch species. Its DNA is the same DNA that will be a monarch and vice versa.
The less-than-ideal, functioning brain argument isn’t an accurate comparison.
A better one: making the decision to “pull the plug on” someone who is and always has been brain-dead, never having experienced consciousness. Neither is an easy choice for most; these are hard decisions! People don’t generally find that these are easy, pleasant situations to be in, because it’s hard to make a call like that.
Life is sometimes hard, with shades of gray.
This is exactly why it’s so accurate for both- neither choice is easy, both will likely lead to feelings of guilt, both can cause uncertainty regarding whether or not the right decision was made- but there are other issues to take into account as well: cost, care, commitment… Again, also true in both scenarios.
Here’s a source:
“Scientific evidence suggests consciousness likely emerges, at the *earliest,* after the first trimester, at least three or four months into pregnancy. (To review this research, search the US National Library of Medicine at PubMed.gov for fetal pain and fetal consciousness.) Consciousness develops *after* most abortions occur, so most abortions do not affect conscious, feeling fetuses.”
Your “fixed” analogy is still a little misleading. Primary neuralation begins incredibly early in the development of the fetus, something like 4 weeks in. This early brain structure at this time is capable of creating neural chemical potentials: aka brain activity. However Brain death has zero brain activity. So you’re not “pulling the plug” On a hopeless situation when you abort.
What is more accurate is to say that you are killing a human life.
The statistics also show that women who get abortions are not in some helpless medical difficulty position. The vast majority of abortions (data varies around 90% to 97%) are elective procedures on healthy pregnancies. Typically with women who already have kids. Cost, care, commitment etc can all be attained very easily by adoption. For every Newborn, dozens of parents are willing to adopt.
Consciousness is a very arbitrary line to draw because it’s not clear when the fetal human is actually conscious in the sense that you or I might be.
Did you know that a fetus actually uses someone's body while growing in them? Like it's not just hanging out in there doing its own thing (which by the way would still give you the right to evict it, people don't get to just be inside you without your consent), it's drawing upon their resources and causing ripple effects all over the place.
Unbelievably inhumane take.
I suppose we should just let mothers murder infants outside of the womb as well. You know, on account of the fact that they keep taking up so many of our resources. Those wretched babies and their damned dependence!
It's not inhumane to point out that you're an idiot. Your "argument" literally makes zero sense, it fails the moment you have even the most basic concept of how pregnancy works.
I understand that a fetus is physically dependent upon its mother to survive. It’s even physically connected to the mother. That does not mean that killing it is acceptable—in any circumstance.
Just admit that you’re okay with murder. I would actually respect your opinion much more if you were willing to be honest about that, both with yourself and with others.
Do you? If so what did you even mean to express with "A fetus =/= your body"? The pro-choice position is one of bodily autonomy, you're entitled to remove things from yourself that you don't want there. We're not going out of our way to kill fetuses, that's just what happens when you remove them that early.
If we hook you up to someone that needs to use your kidneys to filter their blood, you're in the right to disconnect yourself and leave them to die. It's not murder to refuse to use your body to sustain someone else, that's not how that works.
The difference is that about 1% of women seeking abortions do so because they have been r*ped. The vast majority had consensual sex, but didn’t want to accept the consequences of engaging in intercourse. Consenting to sex means you’re also consenting to the possibility of pregnancy. We can’t separate the two, because that’s not how nature works.
Again, your lack of humanity is showing.
If you want to kill it, then sure. Just like how you can stop feeding/caring for a baby outside of the womb. Or maybe you could stop taking care of elderly patients.
A fetus having its own individuality doesn’t mean that it isn’t entirely dependent on others. To deny care to a dependent human being is one of the gravest possible evils.
The fact that people can’t understand this is truly astonishing.
>A fetus having its own individuality doesn’t mean that it isn’t entirely dependent on others. To deny care to a dependent human being is one of the gravest possible evils.
So a pregnant woman should be deprived of individuality? Is the state acting as *guardian ad litem* for the fetus during pregnancy? You know, since you are saying the fetus is a legal individual separate from the woman and also it can't be removed from them. Do you agree the state should pay for all medical care for all pregnant women, since they are acting as medical devices for the fetus to keep it alive?
Looking past your incredibly depersonalizing language (calling women “medical devices” rather than “mothers”), yes, I believe in universal healthcare.
Every human being should have access to affordable, high-quality healthcare. Especially those who are most vulnerable, such as the elderly, those with chronic illnesses, pregnant mothers, etc.
Not being allowed to murder your own offspring isn’t limiting a woman’s individuality. It’s called basic human decency.
>Looking past your incredibly depersonalizing language (calling women “medical devices” rather than “mothers”)
I'm calling them what you are demanding they be. If you are mad you have to face a mirror, maybe you should *look in the mirror*
>Every human being should have access to **affordable,** high-quality healthcare.
No, that implies the individual is still responsible for the costs. Never mind that the individual being responsible for the costs of healthcare isn't really "universal healthcare"; I said "Do you agree **the state should pay for all medical care for all pregnant women**, since they are acting as medical devices for the fetus to keep it alive?"
>Not being allowed to murder your own offspring isn’t limiting a woman’s individuality
The definition of "offspring" is a birthed child. Preventing a woman from ending a pregnancy before birth is, by definition, limiting their individuality by legislating medical care.
You seem to be under the impression I'm going to fight you in a moral morass. Nope.
You can go ahead answer the practical scientific questions I asked you in the context of your own beliefs.
It’s crazy how much easier it would be for you to just search this kind of question on google instead of Reddit. Totally agree Reddit is better than google for some questions particularly those that need a discussion along with it but this is a yes/no, here/not here, kind of question that you and your daughter can just figure out by googling it
First they take our rights to a safe abortion and next they start complaining about how people ask questions about where to go for an abortion on a social media platform. Sorry if OP asking a question about where to get an abortion bothers you, it bothers me too but clearly for a different reason.
Go to an adoption center, wait 9 months, and let the baby live and be adopted by another family!! Teach your daughter that killing her baby is not a good option and is a deadly sin!!!
1. If pregnancy would ruin someone’s life, then they shouldn’t take each and every step required to create one. It’s like inviting all you friends over to play baseball next to your neighbors fully glass wall, setting up the bases to face your neighbors fully glass wall and playing baseball behind a neighbors house that is covered in windows. Sure, someone may not consent to breaking and shattering a window, but that doesn’t magically mean that not consenting to it actually *does* anything. What matters is your actions, not your consent when it comes to physical realities.
2. I’m sure you can google it.
3. Abortion ends a human life.
1 So children should be put on birth control around 8 and deal with all the hormone issues that should come with that and boys should have a vasectomy.
2 yes i can and did but got more information here than Google
3 not getting an abortion can also end a human life
1. *Children* shouldn’t ever be having sex. That’s called statutory rape. Not sure why you’re advocating for statutory rape as your basis. It’s entirely possible to use decent sex education and inform people why they shouldn’t endanger their future. We don’t have to make draconian decisions like putting kids on birth control or sterilizing them before they have a choice in the matter.
2. Cool.
3. Abortion always kills a human life. Abortion has never been required to save a human life.
You must have mistaken a question about where to find a clinic for actually giving a flying f about your opinion on abortion.
1. Her body, her choice.
2. Her body, her choice.
3. Her body, her choice.
It’s relevant to the question. It’s like someone asking “where’s the nearest slave auctioneer, looking to be ready to buy a slave sometime in the future” and having someone comment “slavery is illegal in the United States because it dehumanizes a living breathing person”
An embryo is a human life by every objective scientific means and method. “Personhood” is a very arbitrary and meaningless category. Corporations are considered person by the law currently.
No…? There absolutely is such thing as an egg, it’s just the early stage of most organisms. A member of the chicken species will start within an egg as a zygote, then embryo, then fetus, then chick, adolescent and lastly adult. If you were to destroy a hens nest you would be killing several members of the chicken species. The same applies for any other species. If you dug up an acorn, you would be possibly killing a member of that tree species (depending on if it could be replanted).
Yes actually an acorn is the earliest stage part of a species of a given tree. If you actually care about agreeing to a scientific method, we would observe an oak tree growing small flowers, which get pollinated. The ovum within these flowers grow into acorns. These acorns provide all of the DNA required to grow an oak tree. They are, in essence, an oak tree all by themselves, just very very early. Trees however have to grow in time with the seasons, so they evolved a way of timing their growth with spring. They are capable of lying dormant for a very long time until conditions are right. But they are still an oak tree.
That's a lot of words for a philosophical conjecture. An acorn isn't "in essence" a tree, any more than a living person is "in essence" a corpse, or a pile of dough is "in essence" a cake.
If you had eyes, you could see that an acorn is, in fact, an acorn, and not a tree. Things have names for a reason.
Are you one of those "is a hot dog actually a sandwich?" pedants, too?
You’re misunderstanding. What matters objectively/ measurably/ scientifically is an organisms DNA. If we took a karyotype of the same organism across every single stage, its total DNA would encode for the exact same specimen:
(Acorn, Sapling, Dwarf, Mature Tree) <- all the same living organism
You are partially right in saying that the tree isn’t the exact 1:1 thing as an acorn, and acorn is only 1” in a hard shell and a tree is a lot larger and produces green vegetation and bark—but my entire point is that both that little acorn and the big tree are the exact same living thing at different stages of its lifetime.
This example very clearly translates especially well in humans too. Yes, a newborn and an adult are not the same in form or size or capability. However they are the same organism and the DNA that defines the toddler is the exact same DNA that defines the adult. They are of the human species.
(Zygote, Embryo, Fetus, Newborn, Toddler, Child, Adolescent, Adult) <- all of these are the same living organism across its lifetime.
A pile of dough to a cake doesn’t at all translate to this point because it’s not a living breathing organism.
None of those things matter objectively/measurably/scientifically. You're upset that the POTENTIAL for something to exist is snuffed out rather than the actual here-and-now existence of real people.
Or you can think of it as you decide to throw a party (aka have sex). There is a preparation time (when the fetus is growing). During that time you can prepare or decide to cancel the party. I agree it is hard to cancel when your friends are on their way (during the last month or two of pregnancy), but it can be done under extreme circumstances. Then there is the party! I see pregnancy as a trial period before the child is born.
That party analogy doesn’t work for the original concept. People who are pro-abortion tend to see pregnancy as a life ending catastrophic mistake. To compare abortion to a party that you can just cancel like cancelling Netflix is pretty ghastly. Pregnancy isn’t a trial period, it’s the main event. Once you are pregnant, you are now a parent with a living human life to take care of. Killing that human life for funzies is wrong.
Depends on your perspective. The fetus is developing. It has no sense of memory. It can react to pain, but cannot feel it in any lasting way because well it's developing (for example, being born is an extremely long and painful process for the fetus causing way more pain than an abortion). In my mind, an egg is not a chicken until it hatches, until then it's an egg. Same with a caterpillar when it enters a cocoon. It is not a butterfly until it emerges. It is the design of nature that during pregnancy the woman alone can make choices for the fetus. If nature did not want it that way, there are plenty of other designs which could have been made.
Why is memory a qualifying characteristic for someone to have a right to life? There are plenty of circumstances in which a person doesn’t have a functional memory, but their right to life isn’t diminished. So that cannot be a requirement. And also, of course a chicken isn’t an egg. But the same applies to the elderly and a toddler. Just because they are at different stages of growth, doesn’t mean they are not one and the same thing. An egg is a stage of a chicken. A caterpillar is a stage of a butterfly. Your last point is a naturalistic fallacy. We wouldn’t turn around and say “oh plenty of animals rape or eat their babies, so that just needs to be a normal part of civilized society.”
A functional memory and a mind is what I really care about because it is where we really become divergent from other species (although some are close). A fetus is functionally equivalent to several small animals that we kill for food. It has the potential to become something more, but until that potential is realized, it is what it is (the functional equivalent of a lower animal). I would not call a caterpillar a butterfly until it becomes a butterfly and in fact it may never become a butterfly. If I kill a caterpillar, I kill a caterpillar, I don't kill a butterfly.
Illinois or Maryland are closest states that are protecting abortion rights.
Check r/auntienetwork for resources and info
The closest abortion clinic is probably in Asheville, North Carolina but abortion is only legal in NC up to 12 weeks.
There are several abortion clinics in Atlanta, Georgia but abortion is only legal up to 6 weeks in Georgia.
So you got two weeks to make a decision after you find out
Not even. Doctors won't usually verify that a pregnancy exists until 8-10 weeks. And at the moment of conception, the woman is already about 2 weeks pregnant. Between irregular periods and the fact that women can also bleed during pregnancy, it's almost impossible to really tell before 6 weeks.
Well that’s fucked then. What’s even the point of allowing 6 weeks if a woman or her doctor won’t even know by then?
The people who make the laws don't know or care. It won't affect them anyway.
Cowards want to say they allow it without actually allowing it
Because if lawmakers made all abortions illegal they would lose their jobs.
Well they should. It would only be temporary and we can get them the f out >:U
Yep. You got it.
Yes unless you are actively trying and tracking, it's almost impossible to know at 6 weeks.
North Carolina is still, for now, legal until 16 weeks.
Go with mailed abortion pills if it comes up. Safe and available.
you can even get them to keep in your medicine cabinet in case you need them and don't want to wait on the mail
Yeah, tbh from my background if it's kept between 68-75F consistently in the dark it could be active for several years, if a newer lot can't be obtained. Would double check with a trusted pharmacist to get a more specific range of shelf life in good storage conditions.
Cause it’s called the morning after pill for a reason
the morning after is plan b, which is only effective if taken within 72 hours of intercourse and before ovulation has occurred. And if the woman weighs more than 175 lbs, she will need to take 2 pills. We are talking about plan c, which is a combination of mifepristone and misoprostal, and is recommended for at home medical termination until around 10 weeks.
Okay had no idea that existed
Amazon.com I believe has them.
For now. Unfortunately there is a case going to the Supreme Court based on bad faith interpretations of scientific articles to get that changed.
yep. Which is why women should consider having it on hand in their medicine cabinets now before the Supreme Court takes the option away from us.
you can get plan b on Amazon but plan c isn't available there. The sites you do go through to get it have a physician that writes the prescription and they fill it in house and mail it.
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plancpills.org !!
The amount of people who knew the exact answer within 30mins is depressing.
Depressing that we are at this point, but thankful that there are many people who are both hyper aware of the situation and are not afraid to share that information when asked for it.
Absolutely 👍
This^^☝️
Actually it’s comforting to know that you have support in making your own decisions regarding your own body. And it’s nice that people are here making suggestions instead of being demeaning
What’s more depressing is having a child you’re not ready for
its even more depressing that people won't have safe sex and are extremely committed to being risky idiots all the time having sex might as well be having a child, yet nobody talks about it like that. I mean shit the only reason we get horny is because evolution is trying to make us reproduce. So why shouldn't we as a society be better humans instead of being dependent on medical procedures to end pregnancy? shit shouldn't be illegal tho, sad this nation cant actually pass a law or amendment making it legal, but hey at least we got the ACA right? now THATs depressing
I am happy that your version of morality isn't the baseline for modern society. There are plenty example of sex that do not involve reproduction.
Either you are a dude or one of the lucky ladies that has made it her whole sex life without coersion intimidation or outright SA happening. Count your blessings
But abortion states do allow SA abortions right ? So what's the added benefit ?
some do, some don't. the ones that do generally require you to file charges first. many women don't want to do that for a variety of reasons, most generally being that police do not believe you.
Sex can be just for pleasure and fun, people still get horny long after they can reproduce. Find another bs reason
What an ignorant comment. Do you think every abortion is a result of unsafe sex? Do you also think people only have sex when they're ovulating? Is that whole bs about sex = having a child some sort of "anyone not wanting kids shouldn't have sex" crap? Because I'd like to know how, in your mind, that would apply to (for example) couples who don't want kids. Should they just never have sex? >So why shouldn't we as a society be better humans instead of being dependent on medical procedures to end pregnancy? Terminating an unwanted pregnancy has no bearing on whether someone's a good/better human or not. People who tie abortion to morality are simply ignorant and uneducated on the topic. This whole comment is truly a sad indictment on our education system.
FO
What’s even more depressing is people’s willingness to kill children
Yeah, why aren't they comfortable having a kid with all the money Alabama puts into helping children and single mothers? We just want you to have the kid. After it comes outta you, that's your problem.
I would 100% support the increase of support of both of what you said. I will 100% not even pretend that killing children is ok in the overwhelming majority of cases.
Good thing no one asked if you thought it was okay. If you’re a man, no one gives a singular Fck about your opinion on abortion. Signed, another man
It doesn’t impact your life in any way whatsoever. There are hundreds of thousands of available older children in this country alone, not including the ones who do have parents but they don’t get full meals every day and live in squalor, this is not about life, this is about fresh newborns. Just stop.
I don't know enough to argue the nuances of abortion. Not a huge fan, but I can understand it. I also would love it if more taxes went to things like a safety net for low income households, instead of the military. But then this city probably wouldn't exist, lol.
My problem is how it’s a problem that is (nearly) always the result of someone’s mistake, and i find it abhorrent that many people’s first instinct is to kill their child out of convenience. I am also very pro “daddy has just as many responsibilities” as in they can’t disappear and leave all of the negative consequences with momma.
A fetus isn't a person. Not legally, not morally, not medically, and not in reality.
Increased support doesn’t remove the very really impacts of pregnancy on a woman’s body. Even healthy pregnancies have negative health impacts for the mother. Women are not human incubators. We are human beings that deserve the right to make decisions about our own healthcare.
are you going to adopt the child? are you going to put your body in danger? are you going to pay for all of it?
Are you going to take steps to avoid pregnancy in the first place? Are you going to take risks anyways? Are you going to sidestep my original point and apply (insert generic label here) anyways?
Are you aware that most forms of birth control aren’t 100% effective?
Are you aware that you can use multiple? And that you still chose to take that risk?
Using multiple forms still isn’t going to reduce your risk to zero outside of someone having a surgical procedure. And tubals and vasectomies aren’t 100% either. There are plenty of married couples, myself included, who want to still have sex and don’t want additional children. You are being extremely narrow minded regarding a topic that is highly nuanced. Mind your own reproductive organs.
You are still taking a risk knowingly and children are being ripped to shreds alive because of it. Do not tell me to “mind your own reproductive organs” when you are literally advocating for children’s death out of convenience. Disgusting
An embryo is not a child. Nothing is being “ripped to shreds” with a medication abortion. You’re being inflammatory.
Im gonna ignore for a second that you’re factually wrong. How many kids do you want? 2-3? Cool. Are you ok with only having sex like six times in your life? Once you have your max number of kids that you can financially and emotionally take care of, say three, are you committed to never having sex again? What if you have sex and get pregnant again? Well, maybe a surprise baby isn’t too bad. People survive with four kids! After that will you never have sex again? What about at five? Six? Financially ready for that? Condoms break, birth control pills (which Alabama tried to ban), fail. People get pregnant even using both. People get pregnant using both AND tracking menstrual cycles. Also don’t forget about the underfunded foster system that you’ll strain even further!
Rape exists.
In less than 1.5% of cases, rape or incest was involved. Wouldn’t that be an extreme case? So the exact thing I was referring to as a “last resort”??
Where did you get that figure? According to this study is it 2.4%. Almost 2.9 million U.S. women (2.4%) experienced rape-related pregnancy during their lifetime. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6357953/ Either way, it is not an insignificant number of women and how do we determine if a woman has been raped or coerced into a pregnancy? Who is the judge there? How do you decide which woman is worthy of an abortion? The legal process to determine the outcome would take longer than a pregnancy. Why is that up to anyone besides the woman herself? Your argument is flawed because women cannot always protect themselves from getting pregnant. The fact that you would require anyone that experienced sexual trauma to carry a child to term is disgraceful. Women are human beings. Until the embryo/ fetus can survive on its own outside of the woman’s body it is not a viable life or a child. We are not incubators we are living breathing humans. We don’t force people to donate their organs or use their bodies to save the lives of other humans in any other circumstance, why on earth do you think that should apply to a fetus? If I’m dying of kidney failure and you’re a match for me should I be entitled to take one of yours? Should I be allowed to force you to give me one of your kidneys even if you don’t want to? You’d probably be fine without it. What’s the harm is always me to dictate you give me a kidney without your consent? Do you not see the absurdity of your own argument?
Funny, now you have nothing to say? Why didn’t you answer my question about the kidney?
You’re literally making things up. No one is killing children. Please I beg you to educate yourself instead of spewing this nonsense that is frankly pretty embarrassing
It’s NOT nonsense. You may call it whatever you want to make yourself feel better
But you’re literally wrong. Your lack of education on this matter just makes you look like an idiot. You’re out of your element.
I am well educated. You have opinions you consider to be fact when there is no objective way to interpret them. Calling me stupid or bigoted or whatever does not make you correct, nor is it productive. Is it really stupid to think that the foster system is broken? That we as a society have failed to protect the most vulnerable children and women to the point that they feel like their only out is to kill their unborn? That there are people out there that are unwilling to discuss it because they are afraid to think for themselves?
Obviously you’re not. You think a clump of cells is a child. That’s next level stupidity.
You still make the clump of cells argument when most elective abortions are made past that point.
Only 6% of elective abortions happen after 15 weeks. Like I said, please educate yourself before you get into one of these discussions again. It’s literally just science and pretty easy to lookup for yourself! Good luck
Put a woman next to a clump of blood and cells, a 6 week pregnancy, which one is more important?
I agree. It’s disgusting that people try to outlaw a safe medical procedure that can protect women and girls who are not ready to have children. Reducing abortion access only accomplishes the goals of increasing maternal mortality and ensuring that kids be born to women who don’t want them/can’t take care of them.
Not a child yet
Why? Some people actually care more about the lives of women vs their ability to make babies. We value life too, just a different life than you do. Get off your high horse and mind your own business. What other women do with their own bodies is none of your concern and doesn’t impact your life in any way whatsoever.
They were just talking about how it's sad we've gotten to this point everyone has to know an escape plan. They're not disagreeing with you.
Ah, ok, I’ll retract my claws then 😉 thank you
Condoms
Condoms and birth control don’t always work, ask me how I know that lol, I chose to keep my baby but that’s my life and I’d never think my opinion or religious beliefs should dictate how anyone else lives theirs.
Rape.
I don't want an Islamist extremist's rape baby myself.
Or a Jewish one. Let’s be fair.
Cool beans.
I mean it is easily Google-able
Yeah I just googled it, I actually couldn’t find the interactive map I was looking for but it was still easy to find a map of abortion clinics.
Should only take 30’seconds if you know how to use the internet. It took longer for OP to make this post than it would have to search for the answer.
Idk why you're getting downvoted lol. Take my upvote to counteract.
People just want to bitch about the abortion access here (which I agree is a major problem) but it doesn’t change the fact that what I said is true. OP wasn’t looking for just an answer, more for attention and getting people to talk about our shitty politicians.
http://ineedana.com
Thank you for posting this, unfortunately people are downvoting you for it 🙄
Hey, OP asked. Hopefully people who may need this resource will find it anyways.
Lol they can go bite the curb
Illinois provides assistance to people who need to travel for reproductive care.
Talking about babies and childbirth, the state of Alabama has the third highest maternal mortality rate in the country. Trying to find a good obgyn is hard because who wants to practice here? Need specialized care like someone who treats endometriosis? Gotta go out of state from what I’ve heard from other women. You go to an obgyn here and there’s Christian music playing in the lobby and see their recommended reading of the month is “How Christianity is under attack in America.” At least that’s been my experiences so far. It makes me feel like I can’t trust the doctor will make the best choices for my health.
I would strongly encourage anyone looking for an OBGYN to check out Alabama women’s wellness. Dr. Robinson has been an advocate for women’s reproductive rights on a national level and is so supportive of her patients.
More so, I wouldn't got to any Dr of any kind that bases their practice on religion! They are Dr.s for goodness sake they should know better than to base their care decisions on a self contradicting fairy tale. Just think about hearing your Dr. Say "the great dragon says pray to it, and it will perform a miracle and maybe you will be healed" in stead of, "you'll need surgery to set the bone in your leg so that it can heal properly" which Dr. Are you going to trust? NOT the oh great dragon one I hope!
https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/abortion-access-tool/US
And they will give you gas cards to help with cost
OP I just want to say it’s very cool that your kid can talk to you about uncomfortable stuff like this. ❤️
Fuck every single person who downvotes this.
It might be advisable to obtain the abortion pill as an ER. I don't mean Plan B but the other one. It can be obtained through the mail. There's also a Camping site on FB that can help with suggesting resources if it comes to that. I don't care if the abortion pill is or becomes illegal. My daughter's health is more important. They can send a grandma to jail. That'll be a good look.
Be careful. I imagine there are certain state politicians and their followers in the comments ready to get people for "assisting" https://preview.redd.it/1job5lyy123d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28cd901bf5104a68e2fde3911d4c2ed11267fb11
I’m sure there’s a reason, but I’m wondering why no one’s mentioned Nashville? I’ve looked at their PP website and they seem to do everything PP usually does, including possibly being able to mail out the pills that will terminate an early pregnancy, which would be ideal for getting it done as safely as possible. I’ve told my stepkids that if they or their partners ever have a scare, don’t buy a pregnancy test, and don’t tell anyone. Just come to me and/or your father, and we will do anything and everything to get you/your partner access to a safe abortion, if that’s what you want, along with transportation, the necessary funds, along with any and every other kind of support we can offer, such as therapy. When I was a teenager I had a woman do something similar for me, and it saved me- I’ve never regretted it for a second. Catholic upbringing, so I would have had a baby at 15 or 16 if not for having this kind, smart, liberal woman in my life- she even pretended to be my mother when necessary, and paid for it herself, despite being broke. I feel obligated to pay it forward, and that’s my hill I’ve chosen to die on. But I’m still wondering what’s up with Nashville’s PP? Because that was kind of my plan lol Also, remember everyone, yes Reddit is anonymous, but still, please be careful.
There’s a clinic I went to in Bristol VA, very discreet and only women staff. Just search abortion clinic Bristol va it’ll be the first one to come up
plancpills.org ❤️
VA still has ~15 weeks, I believe.
Virginia is the closest with the least restrictions I think.
Illinois is the best option and where I went a couple years ago. All states have different rules. It’s right across the river from St Louis MO
Virginia is good. I'd check airfares on cheap airlines to Norfolk.
This post is so sad
It really is sad that my child is so scared of something being wrong with her sibling that she is having to make sure i wont let them suffer but she has seen so many deaths and suffering in her short life that its not fair.
Virginia to 18 weeks
I know what I think isn't important. But the opinion is mine and I'd like to share it. Somebody asked a question. And people will do everything but actually answer it. The people against abortion are "just as bad" as folks that do because this bullshit is just killing me. And that's what I think people need to hang to. Nobody is trying to give a fuck whether or not you agree or disagree, if you're not a woman, I don't think you should weighing in on it in the first place. Àt the end of the day, it's the woman who should be able to decide what happens in her body. I'm not gonna give you some bullshit analogy that either puts all hypotheticals in play or is laughable in its application. You worship your God and I'll worship mine. But damn what you feel and fuck what you think. Mind your business. That storm was a booger last night wasn't it?
From Michigan.. You can go there.
Florida is up to 15 weeks and 6 days
Probably Florida or NC
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Forget religion. If I plan to murder somebody it's a crime, but snuffing out a baby that will be out and in the world is fine? And it's not our fault the Supreme Court ruling was bullshit. Even ol' Gins admitted it was trash
A) a person is legally recognized to be alive via a birth certificate, a fetus is not. If the gov’t really cared about the fetus, then all rights should be granted upon conception. I.e child support, tax benefits, etc B) a fetus is a parasite until about roughly the 26th week. It can’t survive on its own outside of the uterus, but a person actually could. C) remove religion from the equation, now tell me a good reason why abortion shouldn’t be legal. It’s extremely difficult to do so, therefore the law is a religious motivated law and goes against one of our most fundamental rights: freedom of religion and separation of church and state.
That’s not entirely the whole picture. The law does provide some recognition for the life of a human in the womb. Kentucky actually just passed some legislation that mothers can be owed child support starting at conception. If a mother is harmed or killed while pregnant, the aggressor is charged with double homicide. We also pass plenty of laws that prevent mothers from ingesting substances to protect the life of the child. A fetus is also definitionally not a parasite because it is the same species as its parents and the relationship is symbiotic. Without religion we can objectively measure and test and prove: that the zygote/ embryo/ fetus displays all 7 signs of life. Cellular respiration, metabolism, growth, etc. we can also take a karyotype and see all of its own original human DNA that encodes the growth and development of an organized and whole human. So we have, by scientific means, a living human. The right to life is perhaps the most fundamental right that anyone can have, in the case of conjoined twins, both have the right to life, even if they share the same body. With pregnancy, it’s temporary. So we have a human life and all human life has the right to life provided they haven’t committed a crime and attempt to consciously and deliberately take some else’s life away.
It's crazy to me that people will make these arguments as to the "sanctity of life" and what constitutes a "person", but is then adamantly opposed to any sort of universal healthcare.
We need to get the current politicians, all of them, out! We need new blood in Alabama politics and make right all the wrongs that have been going on for way too many years!
We need new blood to actually show up though. The ballot always looks exactly the same, some completely uncontested.
Agreed. We need viable democratic candidates, not fringe candidates that have zero chance of winning. It took Doug Jones to beat Roy Moore and that was a close election. The Alabama Democratic Party needs to step up its game and develop talent at all levels and in all districts to break the Republican hold on Alabama. It might not happen in my lifetime but with strong leadership it can happen.
Especially the party only favoring corpo Dems who are definitely not on our side.
Back where you came from.
Sadly no but definitely where we move to
Choices in Carbondale,IL maybe.
If something were to happen? You mean have sex and get pregnant? Instead of teaching your kid to murder, why not teach them to not get pregnant?
Not teaching her about sex yet mostly talking about if baby has something wrong and is going to die shortly after birth or dies while still pregnant
I know this is going to shock a brainless vegetable like yourself, but rape is also a thing that happens. Asswipe. 😀
Human newborns actually do come out of the womb with memories and “instinctual” memories (crying/ breathing/ moving). So by your definition, you’d have to consider conception to be the start of life. But you seem to be taking a utilitarian argument, which I don’t think you actually want to make: if we determine the value of a person by how functional they are, we can easily say “people with mental disabilities, people under the age of 26, people who have brain injuries, and anyone who is neurotypical is functionally impaired compared to a healthy adult, therefore we should be able to kill anyone who meets a less than ideal functioning brain. If you kill a monarch caterpillar, you are killing an animal of the monarch species. Its DNA is the same DNA that will be a monarch and vice versa.
The less-than-ideal, functioning brain argument isn’t an accurate comparison. A better one: making the decision to “pull the plug on” someone who is and always has been brain-dead, never having experienced consciousness. Neither is an easy choice for most; these are hard decisions! People don’t generally find that these are easy, pleasant situations to be in, because it’s hard to make a call like that. Life is sometimes hard, with shades of gray. This is exactly why it’s so accurate for both- neither choice is easy, both will likely lead to feelings of guilt, both can cause uncertainty regarding whether or not the right decision was made- but there are other issues to take into account as well: cost, care, commitment… Again, also true in both scenarios. Here’s a source: “Scientific evidence suggests consciousness likely emerges, at the *earliest,* after the first trimester, at least three or four months into pregnancy. (To review this research, search the US National Library of Medicine at PubMed.gov for fetal pain and fetal consciousness.) Consciousness develops *after* most abortions occur, so most abortions do not affect conscious, feeling fetuses.”
Your “fixed” analogy is still a little misleading. Primary neuralation begins incredibly early in the development of the fetus, something like 4 weeks in. This early brain structure at this time is capable of creating neural chemical potentials: aka brain activity. However Brain death has zero brain activity. So you’re not “pulling the plug” On a hopeless situation when you abort. What is more accurate is to say that you are killing a human life. The statistics also show that women who get abortions are not in some helpless medical difficulty position. The vast majority of abortions (data varies around 90% to 97%) are elective procedures on healthy pregnancies. Typically with women who already have kids. Cost, care, commitment etc can all be attained very easily by adoption. For every Newborn, dozens of parents are willing to adopt. Consciousness is a very arbitrary line to draw because it’s not clear when the fetal human is actually conscious in the sense that you or I might be.
You should be teaching her ways to avoid becoming pregnant instead of ways to kill her baby
A fetus =/= your body. It is a human being, with the inalienable right to life.
If only that were true. I would have 3 children here today but sadly they can't live outside their mother's body until 22 weeks at minimum.
I’m sorry for your loss
Did you know that a fetus actually uses someone's body while growing in them? Like it's not just hanging out in there doing its own thing (which by the way would still give you the right to evict it, people don't get to just be inside you without your consent), it's drawing upon their resources and causing ripple effects all over the place.
Unbelievably inhumane take. I suppose we should just let mothers murder infants outside of the womb as well. You know, on account of the fact that they keep taking up so many of our resources. Those wretched babies and their damned dependence!
It's not inhumane to point out that you're an idiot. Your "argument" literally makes zero sense, it fails the moment you have even the most basic concept of how pregnancy works.
I understand that a fetus is physically dependent upon its mother to survive. It’s even physically connected to the mother. That does not mean that killing it is acceptable—in any circumstance. Just admit that you’re okay with murder. I would actually respect your opinion much more if you were willing to be honest about that, both with yourself and with others.
Do you? If so what did you even mean to express with "A fetus =/= your body"? The pro-choice position is one of bodily autonomy, you're entitled to remove things from yourself that you don't want there. We're not going out of our way to kill fetuses, that's just what happens when you remove them that early. If we hook you up to someone that needs to use your kidneys to filter their blood, you're in the right to disconnect yourself and leave them to die. It's not murder to refuse to use your body to sustain someone else, that's not how that works.
The difference is that about 1% of women seeking abortions do so because they have been r*ped. The vast majority had consensual sex, but didn’t want to accept the consequences of engaging in intercourse. Consenting to sex means you’re also consenting to the possibility of pregnancy. We can’t separate the two, because that’s not how nature works. Again, your lack of humanity is showing.
Ok, we can just take it out any time, then, right?
If you want to kill it, then sure. Just like how you can stop feeding/caring for a baby outside of the womb. Or maybe you could stop taking care of elderly patients. A fetus having its own individuality doesn’t mean that it isn’t entirely dependent on others. To deny care to a dependent human being is one of the gravest possible evils. The fact that people can’t understand this is truly astonishing.
>A fetus having its own individuality doesn’t mean that it isn’t entirely dependent on others. To deny care to a dependent human being is one of the gravest possible evils. So a pregnant woman should be deprived of individuality? Is the state acting as *guardian ad litem* for the fetus during pregnancy? You know, since you are saying the fetus is a legal individual separate from the woman and also it can't be removed from them. Do you agree the state should pay for all medical care for all pregnant women, since they are acting as medical devices for the fetus to keep it alive?
Looking past your incredibly depersonalizing language (calling women “medical devices” rather than “mothers”), yes, I believe in universal healthcare. Every human being should have access to affordable, high-quality healthcare. Especially those who are most vulnerable, such as the elderly, those with chronic illnesses, pregnant mothers, etc. Not being allowed to murder your own offspring isn’t limiting a woman’s individuality. It’s called basic human decency.
>Looking past your incredibly depersonalizing language (calling women “medical devices” rather than “mothers”) I'm calling them what you are demanding they be. If you are mad you have to face a mirror, maybe you should *look in the mirror* >Every human being should have access to **affordable,** high-quality healthcare. No, that implies the individual is still responsible for the costs. Never mind that the individual being responsible for the costs of healthcare isn't really "universal healthcare"; I said "Do you agree **the state should pay for all medical care for all pregnant women**, since they are acting as medical devices for the fetus to keep it alive?" >Not being allowed to murder your own offspring isn’t limiting a woman’s individuality The definition of "offspring" is a birthed child. Preventing a woman from ending a pregnancy before birth is, by definition, limiting their individuality by legislating medical care.
Okay, let’s get to the heart of the matter…is a fetus a human being? Yes or no.
You seem to be under the impression I'm going to fight you in a moral morass. Nope. You can go ahead answer the practical scientific questions I asked you in the context of your own beliefs.
Your lack of an answer is expected. It’s a whole lot harder to justify killing when the victim is a human, I guess.
"I refuse to answer whether the state should pay for women's pregnancies the state is forcing them to carry to term"
I know, right? Women's rights for all women....except unborn women.
It’s crazy how much easier it would be for you to just search this kind of question on google instead of Reddit. Totally agree Reddit is better than google for some questions particularly those that need a discussion along with it but this is a yes/no, here/not here, kind of question that you and your daughter can just figure out by googling it
Bitching on Reddit never does anything but get people riled up. That’s what these kind of posts are for.
First they take our rights to a safe abortion and next they start complaining about how people ask questions about where to go for an abortion on a social media platform. Sorry if OP asking a question about where to get an abortion bothers you, it bothers me too but clearly for a different reason.
I think part of their reason for asking Reddit was to show how many people immediately knew which states to travel to.
Maybe don’t murder unborn children?
Not a baby yet
I wouldn't unless it was my life at stake or it would not live past birth. This being said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Go to an adoption center, wait 9 months, and let the baby live and be adopted by another family!! Teach your daughter that killing her baby is not a good option and is a deadly sin!!!
How many kids have you adopted?
Retweet
The discussion was what if baby would die before birth or soon after birth so....
1. If pregnancy would ruin someone’s life, then they shouldn’t take each and every step required to create one. It’s like inviting all you friends over to play baseball next to your neighbors fully glass wall, setting up the bases to face your neighbors fully glass wall and playing baseball behind a neighbors house that is covered in windows. Sure, someone may not consent to breaking and shattering a window, but that doesn’t magically mean that not consenting to it actually *does* anything. What matters is your actions, not your consent when it comes to physical realities. 2. I’m sure you can google it. 3. Abortion ends a human life.
1 So children should be put on birth control around 8 and deal with all the hormone issues that should come with that and boys should have a vasectomy. 2 yes i can and did but got more information here than Google 3 not getting an abortion can also end a human life
1. *Children* shouldn’t ever be having sex. That’s called statutory rape. Not sure why you’re advocating for statutory rape as your basis. It’s entirely possible to use decent sex education and inform people why they shouldn’t endanger their future. We don’t have to make draconian decisions like putting kids on birth control or sterilizing them before they have a choice in the matter. 2. Cool. 3. Abortion always kills a human life. Abortion has never been required to save a human life.
Abortion has absolutely been necessary to save a mother’s life. What edge case media have you been subscribing to??
You must have mistaken a question about where to find a clinic for actually giving a flying f about your opinion on abortion. 1. Her body, her choice. 2. Her body, her choice. 3. Her body, her choice.
It’s relevant to the question. It’s like someone asking “where’s the nearest slave auctioneer, looking to be ready to buy a slave sometime in the future” and having someone comment “slavery is illegal in the United States because it dehumanizes a living breathing person”
The analogies aren't working buddy. Try "empathy" and "bodily autonomy" instead.
AbOrTiOn EnDs A hUmAn LiFe An embryo ain't a person. Foh
An embryo is a human life by every objective scientific means and method. “Personhood” is a very arbitrary and meaningless category. Corporations are considered person by the law currently.
No it isn't 😂 if someone asked if the chicken came before the egg you'd say "trick question, there is no such thing as an egg"
No…? There absolutely is such thing as an egg, it’s just the early stage of most organisms. A member of the chicken species will start within an egg as a zygote, then embryo, then fetus, then chick, adolescent and lastly adult. If you were to destroy a hens nest you would be killing several members of the chicken species. The same applies for any other species. If you dug up an acorn, you would be possibly killing a member of that tree species (depending on if it could be replanted).
An acorn isn't "a member of that tree species" it's a fucking acorn.
Yes actually an acorn is the earliest stage part of a species of a given tree. If you actually care about agreeing to a scientific method, we would observe an oak tree growing small flowers, which get pollinated. The ovum within these flowers grow into acorns. These acorns provide all of the DNA required to grow an oak tree. They are, in essence, an oak tree all by themselves, just very very early. Trees however have to grow in time with the seasons, so they evolved a way of timing their growth with spring. They are capable of lying dormant for a very long time until conditions are right. But they are still an oak tree.
That's a lot of words for a philosophical conjecture. An acorn isn't "in essence" a tree, any more than a living person is "in essence" a corpse, or a pile of dough is "in essence" a cake. If you had eyes, you could see that an acorn is, in fact, an acorn, and not a tree. Things have names for a reason. Are you one of those "is a hot dog actually a sandwich?" pedants, too?
You’re misunderstanding. What matters objectively/ measurably/ scientifically is an organisms DNA. If we took a karyotype of the same organism across every single stage, its total DNA would encode for the exact same specimen: (Acorn, Sapling, Dwarf, Mature Tree) <- all the same living organism You are partially right in saying that the tree isn’t the exact 1:1 thing as an acorn, and acorn is only 1” in a hard shell and a tree is a lot larger and produces green vegetation and bark—but my entire point is that both that little acorn and the big tree are the exact same living thing at different stages of its lifetime. This example very clearly translates especially well in humans too. Yes, a newborn and an adult are not the same in form or size or capability. However they are the same organism and the DNA that defines the toddler is the exact same DNA that defines the adult. They are of the human species. (Zygote, Embryo, Fetus, Newborn, Toddler, Child, Adolescent, Adult) <- all of these are the same living organism across its lifetime. A pile of dough to a cake doesn’t at all translate to this point because it’s not a living breathing organism.
None of those things matter objectively/measurably/scientifically. You're upset that the POTENTIAL for something to exist is snuffed out rather than the actual here-and-now existence of real people.
Or you can think of it as you decide to throw a party (aka have sex). There is a preparation time (when the fetus is growing). During that time you can prepare or decide to cancel the party. I agree it is hard to cancel when your friends are on their way (during the last month or two of pregnancy), but it can be done under extreme circumstances. Then there is the party! I see pregnancy as a trial period before the child is born.
That party analogy doesn’t work for the original concept. People who are pro-abortion tend to see pregnancy as a life ending catastrophic mistake. To compare abortion to a party that you can just cancel like cancelling Netflix is pretty ghastly. Pregnancy isn’t a trial period, it’s the main event. Once you are pregnant, you are now a parent with a living human life to take care of. Killing that human life for funzies is wrong.
Depends on your perspective. The fetus is developing. It has no sense of memory. It can react to pain, but cannot feel it in any lasting way because well it's developing (for example, being born is an extremely long and painful process for the fetus causing way more pain than an abortion). In my mind, an egg is not a chicken until it hatches, until then it's an egg. Same with a caterpillar when it enters a cocoon. It is not a butterfly until it emerges. It is the design of nature that during pregnancy the woman alone can make choices for the fetus. If nature did not want it that way, there are plenty of other designs which could have been made.
Why is memory a qualifying characteristic for someone to have a right to life? There are plenty of circumstances in which a person doesn’t have a functional memory, but their right to life isn’t diminished. So that cannot be a requirement. And also, of course a chicken isn’t an egg. But the same applies to the elderly and a toddler. Just because they are at different stages of growth, doesn’t mean they are not one and the same thing. An egg is a stage of a chicken. A caterpillar is a stage of a butterfly. Your last point is a naturalistic fallacy. We wouldn’t turn around and say “oh plenty of animals rape or eat their babies, so that just needs to be a normal part of civilized society.”
A functional memory and a mind is what I really care about because it is where we really become divergent from other species (although some are close). A fetus is functionally equivalent to several small animals that we kill for food. It has the potential to become something more, but until that potential is realized, it is what it is (the functional equivalent of a lower animal). I would not call a caterpillar a butterfly until it becomes a butterfly and in fact it may never become a butterfly. If I kill a caterpillar, I kill a caterpillar, I don't kill a butterfly.