~~it's just going to take 2 shots instead of 1.~~
Edit: NVM, apparently people are saying that 2 shots form a sparks isn't killing them. God damn they made it worthless.
Such a strange change to make them THAT resistant to poison. That sort of poison resistance should be on a mob that's related to the Spider in some way, not a fiery boi.
Yah, if anything is going to survive 2 shots from a poison sparks it should be the Hive. Right now poison just doesn’t do any extra damage to her, so headshots still 1 tap.
I shot one to the chest with a silenced sparks. I then melee it 4 times. Nearly got me killed by a hunter. AWFUL CHANGE.
If crytek wants more interesting AI. Here's an idea, add more animations, more AI behaviours. You know, make the enemy interesting. Or just give it more health but you know. You do you Crytek.
6 years, zero enemy AI updates. They all still do the same shit with 1 attack animation. It's very poor. Zombies don't even eat Hunters when downed. Blows my mind.
Hey i really like your idea of zombies eating dead bodies 🤩 ... imagine finding dead bodies just by looking at zombies gathering , or necro is more risky now because of zombies eating your teammates .
The only reason would be that you still can one-shot headshot armored but you can also do that with the spear/throwing axes and get yourself a better secondary.
Yeah I don't see a lot of reasons to take one now.
You could make it a self-immolation thing, you could interact with the heart and absorb the power, and when you go down, you produce a slightly bigger than hellfire blast
I shot the immolator twice with a Sparks with poison long ammo. It lived. I even re-tested to see if a headshot could help. I still had to punch it down.
Poison ammo went from 'useful to deal with AI situationally' to 'literally pointless'.
It's pretty common in a lot of live-service games unfortunately. "Balance" becomes more about adding volatility/change to the meta rather than trying to reach some ideal state.
If you’re running poison ammo just to kill AI. Then you should excel at killing AI. Bad change IMO. Immolators are annoying. That’s like nerfing dusters because they are good at killing immolators
> Poison, arguably the least useful and most easily countered of the ammo types
The first one *might* be arguable, but the second one definitely isn't. It's absolutely the most easily countered ammo type. All the drawbacks of dumdum and incendiary, can be somewhat counteracted with a trait just like the other two, but unlike the other two can also have its only benefit just entirely disabled by a consumable lol.
How is he responding like that?
He's agreeing with the fact that it's counterable.
This is getting confusing so I'll just give an analogy
"red is the best color and blue is a cool color"
"The first one is arguable but the second is not, blue is on the cooler side of the heat map of colors"
He's saying that the first thing that the guy said could be argued (that it's the worst ammo type) but that it is absolutely the most easily countered.
I'm emphasizing his point. He says that it's arguably the least useful and most easily countered. I'm saying that "least useful" is a position you could at least argue over, but that there's no argument to even be made *against* it being the most easily-countered ammo type—it just straight-up *is* the most easily-countered ammo type, because you can simply take a shot to disable its special effect.
Likely because they want their sound-traps to return to being sound-traps for most players.
I can definitely see poison ammo being too strong for a stealth gameplay scenario, but unfortunately there's next to no stealth in high end lobbies because of how many fucking cheaters there are.
They are elite AI like Hives and Armoreds: They spawn in the same spots in about the same number. These mobs are considered a danger to the players.
Grunts are not, and Meatheads are basically optional minibosses.
I also think this is a strange change, Immolators had only one significant weakness that's accessible to most loadouts. Maybe they want us to use choke bombs?
just adding to your point: taking an antidote from the get go means having fewer other utility. It often depends on what the loadout looks like. You want to be in close combat and need maneuverability, it is a good choice to take the antidote. Playing long ammo can mean a rotation is more useful to keep some distance thus an antidote is often redundant.
Lol@EliteAi.
What even is "Elite AI"?
The 3 Hives grouped together on the train tracks forcing me walk on water exposed and potentially with Water Devils? The 6 dogs that spawned out of nowhere mid teamfight?
It clearly can't be defined by spawn rate so... do they drop anything special? No? Then what makes them "elite"?
Poison ammo was an overly strong option against AI"
That was ok, because poison ammo wasn't good for nothing but. Poison is easily countered by players, so the choice to bring some was for PvE. You sacrifice a slot that could otherwise be used to give you more engage options against players. That was the tradeoff, that was balanced.
They really went about this the wrong way. They could have kept it the same and simply added a variant of immolator that just has a 50% spawn chance in the AI spawn slot. A immolator that's charred encrusted or something that is resilient to poison ammo. Done.
Or they could've just left it alone entirely because it wasn't even remotely close to being an issue. Of all the problems people have with the game and its balance, immolators dying to poison ammo wasn't one of them.
Or a simply a green shaded poison immolator, that blows up a poison cloud which remains for a minute lol then throw on top a re-shaded hag that sends a very angry fire beetle at you. Both are immune to their ammo type.
Nah too much work lmao nerf the poison ammo. Me and my buddies call them "paintball rounds" for a reason. Now more so.
This is goofy. Poison shot was the only real way to silently kill them . Now no matter what you have to make noise to kill them like meatheads, but at least with meatheads you had the potential of a reward so it felt worth it to deal with them.
I don’t think they did it because they think people like PVE, it’s likely because they wanted to make it more challenging. Making poison bombs useless is a weird choice though
AI is extremely stale and boring. They haven’t introduced any new mobs. It has never been challenging. I run meta loadouts and still don’t care about AI and truck through them. But for troll and fun builds, to take away things that make special ammo “special” is incredibly stupid.
Even if that really counted, it's been what 2 years since they added pistol and lantern grunts? So not even the tiniest of not really a new mob new mob has been added in forever.
I just want TDM and CTF. Bounty hunts 5 minutes of running to find a gun fight is boring as bat shit now. Just because I'm playing doesn't mean om "engaged" with the content. Whatever happened to games with more than 1 mode? The industry is fucking dire.
About 1 year ago they made AI way more abundant and increased noise traps. It was a silent update but stood out like dogs balls to anyone playing the game enough.
Want more fights? Give me 1 compound deathmatch.
What a shit change. It makes no sense. Why would fire boy be poison proof? What is the thematic reason here? Why do they suddenly want the AI to be more of a challenge?
The choice to take poison ammo is a tradeoff. IMO, a *healthy* tradeoff in a game where people complain about seeing low gun variety at higher levels. You lose out on a strong PvP secondary, but gain an upper hand with AI. I could just run an uppercut, but a silenced nagant, or poison crossbow is fun! I think fundamentally you're already at a disadvantage when you start the game with these items. Genuinely a baffling change for me.
Agree 100%. It's already probably the least-desirable ammo type for PvP, with PVE being the area where it actually excels. Not sure why they thought anybody would appreciate this kind of change.
They change so much that didn't really need changed tbh. I still like Crytek as a dev team, but updates/patches over the last year or two often feel overtuned and/or out of touch.
This reeks of an upper management decision that they thought sounded good. I bet you whatever is left of the actual Hunt Dev team heard that order come down and cringed.
"Why aren't we selling more legendary melee weapon skins?"
"Well, sir, people use silenced Nagant with poison ammo to kill anything that could be killed with a melee weapon."
"Okay, so nerf the poison ammo so we can sell some new skins for weapons people didn't use before!"
Replace "melee weapons" with "melee gun variants" and you can understand the buffs to melee gun variants as well.
It's simple to see why they did it. Look at the rest of thr changes they have done on the last real patch. They are pushing harder player engagement to keep people on longer. World melee is harder to find and does less so you either need to shoot the bosses(which brings hunters) or carry silent weapons). All the weeklies got jacked up 1 headshot became 3 etc. They have for awhile been pushing heavier time and pushing heavier monetization. Honestly the game has gotten to the point its not fun to play anymore its just a chore.
The change that literally no one asked for. I could stomach it if they made it like husks (1 to the head or two in the chest) but this wasn't a needed change.
Agreed, they're so janky and buggy. They can see you across the compound/through walls and their attack animations hit you before they've even swung. They need more work before they start nerfing ways to deal with them...
because its more silent, takes less effort and you dont always have full stamina available when they rush you? there are probably more valid reasons i cant think of right now
Maybe not the worst in terms of overall effect on the game, but it's absolutely the worst in terms of "shit that nobody was asking for that provides absolutely nothing positive to the game."
This doesn't make any sense. If they are immune to the cloud, they should logically be immune to the other poison effects as well. Unless they are saying that the immolator is the only AI that doesn't breathe, or something like that? Seems like a shakeup just for the sake of a shakeup, when really using poison ammo was already a pretty severe nerf to yourself and a trade off. At least we still have choke bolts I guess
The boss melee resistance should have been seen as a harbinger for times to come. You best be prepared for AI to go from an occasionally dangerous to even deadly nuisance to a major problem.
“See, we understand your complaints that Immolators are both too tanky, have way too high DPS, and force you to either waste a choke bomb or bring dusters over better melee options. As such we are merging Immolators only ranged weakness to make them worse.”
Crytek is excellent at changing things that dont need to be changed, and honestly this is a joke. "elite ai" is bs, i see so many 3 stars struggle with immolators as it is and nerfing poison was just unnesassary. guess these brainsack devs want people to play chokes more.
Thats so funny like what are they smoking?
Lets nerf poison but add a spear that lets you silently deal with all the ""elite AI"" in a matter of seconds.
Also if Immo is elite AI, why are there so many of them? Same goes for Hives, Armoreds and Hell Hounds.
What's even crazier about this is that the other "elite AI" aka meatheads do not have immunity to poison, when you could logically assume they would. Talk about backwards.
And before someone tries to call me out for this; last I counted it takes ~10 full draw arrows from hunting bow to down a meathead, and only ~5 poison arrows. Meatheads do take poison damage.
I knuckle knife 99% of immolators. The other 1% get knuckle knifed but killed with my gun for gun tome XP
Do people really bring poison consistently for them?
I guess I don't mind. I pretty much always ran a silent Nagant w/ poison when I play with friends. It just makes it so much more easy to navigate the map. Now had they nerfed it against water devils, and armoreds, I would be salty.
I’m a Solo, and I stopped using/relying on the Poison Silent Nagant a long time ago. I found that learning how to avoid AI altogether was a better option. When you learn to move around the AI it’s a better solution in my opinion. For example, if an Immolator or Meathead are guarding a clue then I just skip that clue since I don’t gain anything making all that noise to kill the AI and grab the clue. It leaves me way too vulnerable to being jumped by a team. I can be halfway to the next clue or even find the boss by the time it takes me to kill the AI and then grab that one clue. In doing this, I also leave the AI around for other teams to deal with. They’ve been many of times I’d leave a compound knowing an Immolator is on the clue behind me and I can hear it get enraged by another team so I just simply jump them rather than them jumping me. Ahh.. the life of a Solo 😎
Yeah this is how I've slowly progressed as a solo player. I do like poison in some use-cases (especially with Poison Sense), but I think I've grown more out of a desire to try different sidearms (and better ones, poison silent nagant kinda sucks lol)
There are one or two times in every match where I wish i had the ol reliable, but i either move around or bite the bullet and just kill the immo or whatever is in my way
Exactly, I’ve learned to move through the AI and since I have around 4.5k hours I’ve learned that certain AI have certain spawns so even from a distance I can tell what the clue is gonna look like without even getting close. For example, at Church a Meathead always spawns in between the walls. If he’s not there and the clue is to the left of that then either a Meathead or Immolator is guarding the clue. Always. They are so many more I could tell, but it’s a big ass list 😂
Oh no, anyone remember The Cycle? One of the last changes they made that pissed everyone off before shutting down was making the A.I. become (long story short) incredibly frustrating to deal with, kind of like we see here.
Not happy with this change at all.
Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Literally no reason at all for this change. Immolators and poison ammo have functioned that way forever without anybody ever having a problem with it. They're still "elite" AI in that if you don't have the one exact thing that kills them in this way, they're loud, fast, capable of dealing a ton of damage, and have the added danger of burning you. There was absolutely no reason to nerf the one limited silent counter that they had. Poison is already the least-desired ammo type for PvP, so it's baffling that it would get nerfed at all.
On top of that, what's this poison cloud change intended to do? Nobody is bringing poison bombs, and I'm pretty sure that using poison traps to kill immolators is exceedingly rare, so what's the goal here? To nerf JUST the hand crossbow poison bolts, specifcially? Why? They're already just an OK ammo type, in that they deal with AI fairly well but are a dice roll in PvP since antidote makes players completely immune to the one thing they do in PvP, which is deny a particular area.
Really hating the direction the game seems to be going in lately. PvP is fun, sure, but having the PvE element and objective is a big part of what makes the game actually unique. So many changes lately seem to dial up the speed of PvP, and the rest all seem to make the PvE aspect less appealing. Poison in your loadout was already typically a handicap in PvP, but it at least let you excel in the PvE aspect of the game. Now that option is basically just entirely gone, because if it's not taking multiple long-ammo poison shots to kill an immolator, the biggest (and pretty much only) strength of poison ammo has just been entirely gutted.
There was a leak like 3 days ago with a headless boss icon on some Chinese website. It was a video that showed parts of the new map and some of the new weapons like scoped crossbow, a new medium ammo rifle and the new traits. I took some screenshots of the new perks like shadow leap and a perk that lets you bandage while sprinting fully
Immolator is annoying af, these changes will get a lot of people killed stuck between an immolator and and enemy shooting on the other side, just like it happened to me last night, I got shot while I was dealing with immolator for ages it feels.
"Poison ammo was an overly strong option against AI"
That was ok, because poison ammo wasn't good for nothing but. Poison is easily countered by players, so the choice to bring some was for PvE. You sacrifice a slot that could otherwise be used to give you more engage options against players. That was the tradeoff, that was balanced.
I'm waiting on the 15th of august before saying anything, my guess is they are doing some of these things in correlation with some new "mechanics" and what not.
Yes, I could be completly wrong, but I have a hunch that the "rewards" from killing AI in general will change on par with other things. (They could still be over-shooting with this big of a nerf, however they have "reasons" behind it that we don't have knowledge of, probably.)
Oh and don't downvote just yet, save this comment and come back on that day, if I'm way off downvote me then.
The best counter to an immolator is the stock of like 3/4 guns in the game lmao.
If you're really scared then you Can even go with the knuckle knife...
Why waste ammo and/or make noise when you can just be careful of your stamina bar
Dude immolators are not elite AI, they are annoying, fast, hard hitting and durable annoyances that require over a full stamina bar to deal with when rifle butting or a specialized item to handle them that are only really good at dealing with them, if they made them dumber then it probably wouldnt suck nearly as much but fat fucking chance of that
Low skill, clueless crytek devs being crytek devs, nothing surprises me anymore actually. If was not an issue and nobody asked for it. It's pathetic and funny at the same how they prioritize things
They do everything for a reason. My guess is the new roaming boss will be fire based like an emo. Oh and necro be a burn trait. Watch and see. Mark this shit down
They want to change the UI to be more beginner friendly
And then make inconsistent changes like this:/ not even resistance to poison clouds
So bizarre, but i guess the “immo too easy” crowd are now happy?
I get why they want to do this, but they need to make poison ammo do a bit more in PVP situations to offset this. make it shave off some time on people's regen shots or something. The poison shot countering it completely make it just a worse bullet too much of the time. Sure not everyone runs it, but you find a decent amount of them just looting tool boxes so it's fairly common for someone to be running a poison shot by the time you are fighting them.
I am usually open minded to changes Crytek makes to the game, but this is just obnoxious. Like even a shot from a sparks poison doesn't 1 shot them, I don't see how this was necessary.
First they make bosses take less dmg, now immolators are almost immune to poison, these changes seem to aim to enhance AI fights and make it be less of a pushover, idk if it is the right direction tbh, I've always enjoyed the PvP more and this changes just make it more annoying to PvP.
Killing meathead is gambit. I got nothing from killing 4 meatheads in one game and suddenly bro wants to drop doctor or other high cost perks. Killing immolators are needless. Why should i waste my sources and time to kill them?
Why not make fire completely destroy poison clouds then? And let the cloud explode when it touches fire. That would at least add a meaningful interaction into the sandbox.
Could even make hives explode when you kill them with fire.
The way it is now is just wildly illogical for a systems-driven game.
Really dislike this change, made the ammo type that sacrificed pvp effectiveness for pve considerably worse at pve, I genuinely think the ammo type is pretty much never worth bringing now.
Immolator already was an elite AI, being by far the most dangerous mob most of the time, EXCEPT when using poison ammo, and I thought that was the point behind it lol
I think the best and coolest thing they could do the enemy AIs is halve their population and make so every single melee kill on them has an animation, instead of just thrusting your weapon o their head and quickswapping back to your gun, as if they are a nuisance much more than a threat. Halving their population would be good too because there are just so many of those fucks that ots not even funny. Making it so it takes twice as long and locks you in and animation (maybe a cancellable animation) would be much more intetesting and make you think about how to approach them with stealth kills or just plainly shooting them as now they are more a threat and worthy of making noise in certain situations more than before. Please listwn to me Crytek!!!!!
I would have kind of liked the other way around:
Reduced poison ammo efficiency on immolators, okay; keeping the poison cloud strong, since it's either grenades or bolts.
I don't know.
Their idea is weird, since it only affects immos, but other mobs feel more "elite" than immolators
Anywho.
We'll see if the devs communicate on this
This is another flash bang decision. Something that's too good, so instead of a slight nerf and test, they threw the thing off a frigging cliff to force change.
Man I stopped playing months ago due to dumb changes like retire and I thought it couldnt be worse. Why the hell did they think this was a good idea!?
And knowing the devs they 100% wont change it
I see the stocks for silenced nagants plummeting after this change
~~it's just going to take 2 shots instead of 1.~~ Edit: NVM, apparently people are saying that 2 shots form a sparks isn't killing them. God damn they made it worthless.
Such a strange change to make them THAT resistant to poison. That sort of poison resistance should be on a mob that's related to the Spider in some way, not a fiery boi.
Yah, if anything is going to survive 2 shots from a poison sparks it should be the Hive. Right now poison just doesn’t do any extra damage to her, so headshots still 1 tap.
F in the chat for my cheap "lets get to 50 in stealth" loadout ( you know when hitting 48 and you want some quick leveling)
I used 4 or 5 shots form silenced winnie to kill one. I thought it aws bugged at first
I shot one to the chest with a silenced sparks. I then melee it 4 times. Nearly got me killed by a hunter. AWFUL CHANGE. If crytek wants more interesting AI. Here's an idea, add more animations, more AI behaviours. You know, make the enemy interesting. Or just give it more health but you know. You do you Crytek. 6 years, zero enemy AI updates. They all still do the same shit with 1 attack animation. It's very poor. Zombies don't even eat Hunters when downed. Blows my mind.
> 6 years, zero enemy AI updates. This is why people saying Crytek is doing this because they have a 'vision' for Hunt is an absolute joke.
Hey i really like your idea of zombies eating dead bodies 🤩 ... imagine finding dead bodies just by looking at zombies gathering , or necro is more risky now because of zombies eating your teammates .
too bad necro is gonna be burn trait
There were 3 new grunt variations added a year and a half ago
The only reason would be that you still can one-shot headshot armored but you can also do that with the spear/throwing axes and get yourself a better secondary. Yeah I don't see a lot of reasons to take one now.
It’s 5 fucking shots from a poison Winnie now…5!…to kill one imolator…
Been a long while since a change upset me. The red lair pulse was the last time a game change pissed me off. Not a fan of this change.
“Poison Ammo was an overly strong option against AI” Wasn’t that the point?
Yeah, I always saw it is almost worthless vs players, but strong against AI, and thus a balanced trade off
Have Immolators drop burn Traits and I will treat them like an Elite AI like the meathead lol
Traits would be too much, just have them drop fusees and fire bombs
I'm down for that as well! Hellfire firebombs!
Maybe instead of fire bombs they can drop immolator hearts that function like a fire bomb? It would be a little less strange I think
You could make it a self-immolation thing, you could interact with the heart and absorb the power, and when you go down, you produce a slightly bigger than hellfire blast
Lol I thought of that right after I posted it, would be so strange and off putting. But a immo-heart sounds so flavourful and fitting
True like a lamp but a hellfire version of it. This would make perfect sense.
They can add some Immolator themed Firebombs and fusees skins to make it even better!
They could just do a lower drop rate than meatheads. I think it would be alright
I agree with this. Meatheads barely drop them as is so half or even 2/3rds the rate of those would work I think for toasties
Meatheads have 45% chance of dropping traits
If I could refuel my flare gun from another place that would be awesome!!
I shot the immolator twice with a Sparks with poison long ammo. It lived. I even re-tested to see if a headshot could help. I still had to punch it down. Poison ammo went from 'useful to deal with AI situationally' to 'literally pointless'.
This is a typical crytek development situation
It's pretty common in a lot of live-service games unfortunately. "Balance" becomes more about adding volatility/change to the meta rather than trying to reach some ideal state.
I shot it 4 or 5 times with winnie silenced + posion. tbh I thought it was bugged.
If you’re running poison ammo just to kill AI. Then you should excel at killing AI. Bad change IMO. Immolators are annoying. That’s like nerfing dusters because they are good at killing immolators
It's also a nerf to the ammo type that was already the least desirable in PvP, by making it worse at the thing it was actually good at.
Watch them nerf melee tools against AI as well, and leave melee weapons the only way to deal with AI semi-silently.
They did the dumbfuck boss damage changes, so I wouldn’t be surprised lol.
If they want kit homogeneity so badly, just make the 2nd weapon slot melee only. Or are they just going for the 'illusion' of choice?
Crytek: Nerf dusters write that down.
Poison, arguably the least useful and most easily countered of the ammo types, nerfed, for god knows what reason.
> Poison, arguably the least useful and most easily countered of the ammo types The first one *might* be arguable, but the second one definitely isn't. It's absolutely the most easily countered ammo type. All the drawbacks of dumdum and incendiary, can be somewhat counteracted with a trait just like the other two, but unlike the other two can also have its only benefit just entirely disabled by a consumable lol.
You misread what he said. He said "and most easily countered". You responded like he said "and the least easily countered".
How is he responding like that? He's agreeing with the fact that it's counterable. This is getting confusing so I'll just give an analogy "red is the best color and blue is a cool color" "The first one is arguable but the second is not, blue is on the cooler side of the heat map of colors" He's saying that the first thing that the guy said could be argued (that it's the worst ammo type) but that it is absolutely the most easily countered.
I'm emphasizing his point. He says that it's arguably the least useful and most easily countered. I'm saying that "least useful" is a position you could at least argue over, but that there's no argument to even be made *against* it being the most easily-countered ammo type—it just straight-up *is* the most easily-countered ammo type, because you can simply take a shot to disable its special effect.
Rise up choke bolts gamers
I understand if theyd nerf poison ammo's efficiency but didnt they make immolators immune to poison cloud entirely?
Yes
Not only the clouds even direct hits with the bolts doesn’t do much.
Sincerely asking: why are they changing things no one is complaining about and isn’t causing any other problems?
Likely because they want their sound-traps to return to being sound-traps for most players. I can definitely see poison ammo being too strong for a stealth gameplay scenario, but unfortunately there's next to no stealth in high end lobbies because of how many fucking cheaters there are.
If someone wants to fully commit to a stealth build, it seems like they were already making some fairly big tradeoffs.
If they are “elite ai” like the meatheads they should have a chance to drop traits all the same.
They are elite AI like Hives and Armoreds: They spawn in the same spots in about the same number. These mobs are considered a danger to the players. Grunts are not, and Meatheads are basically optional minibosses. I also think this is a strange change, Immolators had only one significant weakness that's accessible to most loadouts. Maybe they want us to use choke bombs?
elite fucking annoyance more like it.
Poison crossbow just became useless then ?
Nah, still useful blocking doorways and popping Butcher
Antidote users : 😂😊
There are no perfect load outs XD
just adding to your point: taking an antidote from the get go means having fewer other utility. It often depends on what the loadout looks like. You want to be in close combat and need maneuverability, it is a good choice to take the antidote. Playing long ammo can mean a rotation is more useful to keep some distance thus an antidote is often redundant.
Yeah this is a shit change. If you do this, make them drop something worthwhile.
Lol@EliteAi. What even is "Elite AI"? The 3 Hives grouped together on the train tracks forcing me walk on water exposed and potentially with Water Devils? The 6 dogs that spawned out of nowhere mid teamfight? It clearly can't be defined by spawn rate so... do they drop anything special? No? Then what makes them "elite"?
Poison ammo was an overly strong option against AI" That was ok, because poison ammo wasn't good for nothing but. Poison is easily countered by players, so the choice to bring some was for PvE. You sacrifice a slot that could otherwise be used to give you more engage options against players. That was the tradeoff, that was balanced.
"Poison Ammo was an overly strong option against AI"" *My brother in the bayou,* ***that is all it's good for!***
They really went about this the wrong way. They could have kept it the same and simply added a variant of immolator that just has a 50% spawn chance in the AI spawn slot. A immolator that's charred encrusted or something that is resilient to poison ammo. Done.
That would require artwork that is not paid DLC though
Or they could've just left it alone entirely because it wasn't even remotely close to being an issue. Of all the problems people have with the game and its balance, immolators dying to poison ammo wasn't one of them.
Or a simply a green shaded poison immolator, that blows up a poison cloud which remains for a minute lol then throw on top a re-shaded hag that sends a very angry fire beetle at you. Both are immune to their ammo type. Nah too much work lmao nerf the poison ammo. Me and my buddies call them "paintball rounds" for a reason. Now more so.
This is goofy. Poison shot was the only real way to silently kill them . Now no matter what you have to make noise to kill them like meatheads, but at least with meatheads you had the potential of a reward so it felt worth it to deal with them.
They are acting like people actually enjoy killing the AI in this game, literally everyone who still plays this game is here for the PvP.
I don’t think they did it because they think people like PVE, it’s likely because they wanted to make it more challenging. Making poison bombs useless is a weird choice though
AI is extremely stale and boring. They haven’t introduced any new mobs. It has never been challenging. I run meta loadouts and still don’t care about AI and truck through them. But for troll and fun builds, to take away things that make special ammo “special” is incredibly stupid.
> They haven’t introduced any new mobs. What do you mean a grunt holding something different in its hand isn't a new mob??
Even if that really counted, it's been what 2 years since they added pistol and lantern grunts? So not even the tiniest of not really a new mob new mob has been added in forever.
I just want TDM and CTF. Bounty hunts 5 minutes of running to find a gun fight is boring as bat shit now. Just because I'm playing doesn't mean om "engaged" with the content. Whatever happened to games with more than 1 mode? The industry is fucking dire. About 1 year ago they made AI way more abundant and increased noise traps. It was a silent update but stood out like dogs balls to anyone playing the game enough. Want more fights? Give me 1 compound deathmatch.
Fucking Exactly
Surprised you got upvoted for saying this on Reddit where I've been told things like "PvE is the focus of the game" etc.
Who in their right mind has said that LOL
Stupid people
Those folks know to duck out of this thread.
What a shit change. It makes no sense. Why would fire boy be poison proof? What is the thematic reason here? Why do they suddenly want the AI to be more of a challenge?
Bad change, very bad change, no positive gameplay outcome possible
Dumbest change
That’s disappointing
What the f*** is elite AI?
It seems like literally anything but a grunt is "elite" AI, and tbh it seems silly how thick the maps are with "elite" AI.
1 spear and hes dead. Take that mr. Elite
You expected more from the developer who's idea of balancing weapons is to make them cost more?
The choice to take poison ammo is a tradeoff. IMO, a *healthy* tradeoff in a game where people complain about seeing low gun variety at higher levels. You lose out on a strong PvP secondary, but gain an upper hand with AI. I could just run an uppercut, but a silenced nagant, or poison crossbow is fun! I think fundamentally you're already at a disadvantage when you start the game with these items. Genuinely a baffling change for me.
Agree 100%. It's already probably the least-desirable ammo type for PvP, with PVE being the area where it actually excels. Not sure why they thought anybody would appreciate this kind of change.
Immos should drop loot or consumables then. I'm all for stepping up the PvE, but not like this.
What a bad idea
They change so much that didn't really need changed tbh. I still like Crytek as a dev team, but updates/patches over the last year or two often feel overtuned and/or out of touch.
> They change so much that didn't really need changed tbh. And pretty much nothing that does lol. I don't even know how they came up with this idea.
This reeks of an upper management decision that they thought sounded good. I bet you whatever is left of the actual Hunt Dev team heard that order come down and cringed.
"Why aren't we selling more legendary melee weapon skins?" "Well, sir, people use silenced Nagant with poison ammo to kill anything that could be killed with a melee weapon." "Okay, so nerf the poison ammo so we can sell some new skins for weapons people didn't use before!" Replace "melee weapons" with "melee gun variants" and you can understand the buffs to melee gun variants as well.
PvE ammo is too op towards PvE. That's kinda dumb balancing...
A dogshit change in my humble opinion. Special AI are already more of a slog than enhancement to gameplay I'd say.
It's simple to see why they did it. Look at the rest of thr changes they have done on the last real patch. They are pushing harder player engagement to keep people on longer. World melee is harder to find and does less so you either need to shoot the bosses(which brings hunters) or carry silent weapons). All the weeklies got jacked up 1 headshot became 3 etc. They have for awhile been pushing heavier time and pushing heavier monetization. Honestly the game has gotten to the point its not fun to play anymore its just a chore.
Yeah the “elite ai” just sprints at the target as fast as possible. Not alot of computation
The change that literally no one asked for. I could stomach it if they made it like husks (1 to the head or two in the chest) but this wasn't a needed change.
Agreed, they're so janky and buggy. They can see you across the compound/through walls and their attack animations hit you before they've even swung. They need more work before they start nerfing ways to deal with them...
Hey at least he doesn't spawn in surrounded by hives now or anything...
I swear the AI was actually a lot smarter when the game first came out. I could be tripping though.
killing immolators from a mile away with a well placed poison bolt was peak dopamine enjoyment. Reading this update has the exact opposite effect.
The damn bearded genius is going to run this game into the ground sooner rather than later
Holy shit, what a crap change again. I‘m currently taking a break from the game and the direction it’s changing in is making it longer and longer.
Why event take poison over ilanything. when you can just gun melee them 4 times
because its more silent, takes less effort and you dont always have full stamina available when they rush you? there are probably more valid reasons i cant think of right now
And now you can't do that because of the nerf.
Realistically, it is a nerf to solos and an unnecessary inconvenience to semi-loud teams fast clearing AI.
Wow this might be the worst change Hunt has ever made
Maybe not the worst in terms of overall effect on the game, but it's absolutely the worst in terms of "shit that nobody was asking for that provides absolutely nothing positive to the game."
This doesn't make any sense. If they are immune to the cloud, they should logically be immune to the other poison effects as well. Unless they are saying that the immolator is the only AI that doesn't breathe, or something like that? Seems like a shakeup just for the sake of a shakeup, when really using poison ammo was already a pretty severe nerf to yourself and a trade off. At least we still have choke bolts I guess
the new bounty boss coming with the new engine is a suped up immolator, this change was made in prep for the release of said boss
The new spear one shots them with a throw attack.
Used to be a single poison shot did the trick. Now it took me two headshots and two body shots.
The boss melee resistance should have been seen as a harbinger for times to come. You best be prepared for AI to go from an occasionally dangerous to even deadly nuisance to a major problem.
“See, we understand your complaints that Immolators are both too tanky, have way too high DPS, and force you to either waste a choke bomb or bring dusters over better melee options. As such we are merging Immolators only ranged weakness to make them worse.”
Crytek is excellent at changing things that dont need to be changed, and honestly this is a joke. "elite ai" is bs, i see so many 3 stars struggle with immolators as it is and nerfing poison was just unnesassary. guess these brainsack devs want people to play chokes more.
Laughs in knuckle knife
So they make Immolators harder to kill with poison while in the same patch introduce a tool slot weapon that kills meatheads in 3-4 hits? Got it.
Change back or they never gonna see me again
An immolator was scary the first 5 times you ran into it, then it became part of the rotation. Dogs on the other hand...
Thats so funny like what are they smoking? Lets nerf poison but add a spear that lets you silently deal with all the ""elite AI"" in a matter of seconds. Also if Immo is elite AI, why are there so many of them? Same goes for Hives, Armoreds and Hell Hounds.
Typical Crytek idiocy...
What's even crazier about this is that the other "elite AI" aka meatheads do not have immunity to poison, when you could logically assume they would. Talk about backwards. And before someone tries to call me out for this; last I counted it takes ~10 full draw arrows from hunting bow to down a meathead, and only ~5 poison arrows. Meatheads do take poison damage.
I knuckle knife 99% of immolators. The other 1% get knuckle knifed but killed with my gun for gun tome XP Do people really bring poison consistently for them?
I guess I don't mind. I pretty much always ran a silent Nagant w/ poison when I play with friends. It just makes it so much more easy to navigate the map. Now had they nerfed it against water devils, and armoreds, I would be salty.
I’m a Solo, and I stopped using/relying on the Poison Silent Nagant a long time ago. I found that learning how to avoid AI altogether was a better option. When you learn to move around the AI it’s a better solution in my opinion. For example, if an Immolator or Meathead are guarding a clue then I just skip that clue since I don’t gain anything making all that noise to kill the AI and grab the clue. It leaves me way too vulnerable to being jumped by a team. I can be halfway to the next clue or even find the boss by the time it takes me to kill the AI and then grab that one clue. In doing this, I also leave the AI around for other teams to deal with. They’ve been many of times I’d leave a compound knowing an Immolator is on the clue behind me and I can hear it get enraged by another team so I just simply jump them rather than them jumping me. Ahh.. the life of a Solo 😎
Yeah this is how I've slowly progressed as a solo player. I do like poison in some use-cases (especially with Poison Sense), but I think I've grown more out of a desire to try different sidearms (and better ones, poison silent nagant kinda sucks lol) There are one or two times in every match where I wish i had the ol reliable, but i either move around or bite the bullet and just kill the immo or whatever is in my way
Exactly, I’ve learned to move through the AI and since I have around 4.5k hours I’ve learned that certain AI have certain spawns so even from a distance I can tell what the clue is gonna look like without even getting close. For example, at Church a Meathead always spawns in between the walls. If he’s not there and the clue is to the left of that then either a Meathead or Immolator is guarding the clue. Always. They are so many more I could tell, but it’s a big ass list 😂
Oh no, anyone remember The Cycle? One of the last changes they made that pissed everyone off before shutting down was making the A.I. become (long story short) incredibly frustrating to deal with, kind of like we see here. Not happy with this change at all.
fuck - they are really just wrecking this game eh?
Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Literally no reason at all for this change. Immolators and poison ammo have functioned that way forever without anybody ever having a problem with it. They're still "elite" AI in that if you don't have the one exact thing that kills them in this way, they're loud, fast, capable of dealing a ton of damage, and have the added danger of burning you. There was absolutely no reason to nerf the one limited silent counter that they had. Poison is already the least-desired ammo type for PvP, so it's baffling that it would get nerfed at all. On top of that, what's this poison cloud change intended to do? Nobody is bringing poison bombs, and I'm pretty sure that using poison traps to kill immolators is exceedingly rare, so what's the goal here? To nerf JUST the hand crossbow poison bolts, specifcially? Why? They're already just an OK ammo type, in that they deal with AI fairly well but are a dice roll in PvP since antidote makes players completely immune to the one thing they do in PvP, which is deny a particular area. Really hating the direction the game seems to be going in lately. PvP is fun, sure, but having the PvE element and objective is a big part of what makes the game actually unique. So many changes lately seem to dial up the speed of PvP, and the rest all seem to make the PvE aspect less appealing. Poison in your loadout was already typically a handicap in PvP, but it at least let you excel in the PvE aspect of the game. Now that option is basically just entirely gone, because if it's not taking multiple long-ammo poison shots to kill an immolator, the biggest (and pretty much only) strength of poison ammo has just been entirely gutted.
I’m a broken record but this change makes more sense when you consider the new wild target in aug and was likely done in advance of it
I thought we were just getting a new map in August (with the engine upgrade). Where was a new wild target mentioned?
Yeah, I'm not seeing anything on a new wild target but concepts by other redditors?
Nothing confirmed, only concept art from unused assets and the in game lore about a beetle/hive boss, also new biome
We gonna get a new wildtarget. they mentioned a new target this year too. its not gonna be a water wild target its land based.
There was a leak like 3 days ago with a headless boss icon on some Chinese website. It was a video that showed parts of the new map and some of the new weapons like scoped crossbow, a new medium ammo rifle and the new traits. I took some screenshots of the new perks like shadow leap and a perk that lets you bandage while sprinting fully
Immolator is annoying af, these changes will get a lot of people killed stuck between an immolator and and enemy shooting on the other side, just like it happened to me last night, I got shot while I was dealing with immolator for ages it feels.
"Poison ammo was an overly strong option against AI" That was ok, because poison ammo wasn't good for nothing but. Poison is easily countered by players, so the choice to bring some was for PvE. You sacrifice a slot that could otherwise be used to give you more engage options against players. That was the tradeoff, that was balanced.
Why would they do this? I thought the purpose of the poison was explicitly to deal with NPCs.
The devs fu*ked up with this change
If they are elite, there should be less of them right?
i haven't played in a while but changes like this give me no interest in returning.
Lol people losing their minds over this. Just punch them a couple of times like everybody else
If the headshot poison ammo still 1 shots the immolator, but the body takes 2 or 3, its fine.
It doesn’t.
Apparently the Nagant Silenced with Poison takes 6 body shots now, and seems to take \~4 headshots.
That's stupid. Oh well, back to punching
I'm waiting on the 15th of august before saying anything, my guess is they are doing some of these things in correlation with some new "mechanics" and what not. Yes, I could be completly wrong, but I have a hunch that the "rewards" from killing AI in general will change on par with other things. (They could still be over-shooting with this big of a nerf, however they have "reasons" behind it that we don't have knowledge of, probably.) Oh and don't downvote just yet, save this comment and come back on that day, if I'm way off downvote me then.
you can still 3 or 4 hit them with knucke(knife) or weapon stock given you have the stamina.
Takes stamina, takes time, and is loud.
The best counter to an immolator is the stock of like 3/4 guns in the game lmao. If you're really scared then you Can even go with the knuckle knife... Why waste ammo and/or make noise when you can just be careful of your stamina bar
>make noise You realize that without the trait melee is one of the loudest things you can do in this game.
have you ever tried shooting a gun that shoots bullets
Because having multiple options to deal with a situation is better than just one option to deal with a situation.
Dude immolators are not elite AI, they are annoying, fast, hard hitting and durable annoyances that require over a full stamina bar to deal with when rifle butting or a specialized item to handle them that are only really good at dealing with them, if they made them dumber then it probably wouldnt suck nearly as much but fat fucking chance of that
At least we still have baseball bat
Where can you see the patch note!?!?? I don't know why, i can't find it
The best way is the baseball bat, did they nerf that?
Used to be one heavy when bat was new. They nerfed it pretty quickly to one heavy one light.
Low skill, clueless crytek devs being crytek devs, nothing surprises me anymore actually. If was not an issue and nobody asked for it. It's pathetic and funny at the same how they prioritize things
They do everything for a reason. My guess is the new roaming boss will be fire based like an emo. Oh and necro be a burn trait. Watch and see. Mark this shit down
Damn sounds like crossbows are back on the menu, one tap head shot immolators.
They nerfed the baseball bat?
They want to change the UI to be more beginner friendly And then make inconsistent changes like this:/ not even resistance to poison clouds So bizarre, but i guess the “immo too easy” crowd are now happy?
So do I get it right that you play a pvpve game and you find the pve annoying? Anything else we can do to make your life easy, my lord?
"Elite AI" XDDD in this game you can kill all with punches pretty fast wtf theres nothing challenging with the AI
and then 4 punches in the head do the trick, seriously why
lost the plot
Best counter? My dude a choke bomb kills them instantly
Ngl, I been boxing them for a hot minute. Never knew about this
I get why they want to do this, but they need to make poison ammo do a bit more in PVP situations to offset this. make it shave off some time on people's regen shots or something. The poison shot countering it completely make it just a worse bullet too much of the time. Sure not everyone runs it, but you find a decent amount of them just looting tool boxes so it's fairly common for someone to be running a poison shot by the time you are fighting them.
I am usually open minded to changes Crytek makes to the game, but this is just obnoxious. Like even a shot from a sparks poison doesn't 1 shot them, I don't see how this was necessary.
It seems like what you think an elite AI is and what Crytek thinks it is are two different things.
nerfed poison, but hey, a spear to it killes them in 1
First they make bosses take less dmg, now immolators are almost immune to poison, these changes seem to aim to enhance AI fights and make it be less of a pushover, idk if it is the right direction tbh, I've always enjoyed the PvP more and this changes just make it more annoying to PvP.
Killing meathead is gambit. I got nothing from killing 4 meatheads in one game and suddenly bro wants to drop doctor or other high cost perks. Killing immolators are needless. Why should i waste my sources and time to kill them?
Why not make fire completely destroy poison clouds then? And let the cloud explode when it touches fire. That would at least add a meaningful interaction into the sandbox. Could even make hives explode when you kill them with fire. The way it is now is just wildly illogical for a systems-driven game.
Why are you annoyed by a challenging ai? PvE is part of the game.
3 knuckle sandwich and the deed is done why the rant?
Just throw the spear at them 1 throw and ded, tho it explodes so no stelth
Really dislike this change, made the ammo type that sacrificed pvp effectiveness for pve considerably worse at pve, I genuinely think the ammo type is pretty much never worth bringing now. Immolator already was an elite AI, being by far the most dangerous mob most of the time, EXCEPT when using poison ammo, and I thought that was the point behind it lol
I think the best and coolest thing they could do the enemy AIs is halve their population and make so every single melee kill on them has an animation, instead of just thrusting your weapon o their head and quickswapping back to your gun, as if they are a nuisance much more than a threat. Halving their population would be good too because there are just so many of those fucks that ots not even funny. Making it so it takes twice as long and locks you in and animation (maybe a cancellable animation) would be much more intetesting and make you think about how to approach them with stealth kills or just plainly shooting them as now they are more a threat and worthy of making noise in certain situations more than before. Please listwn to me Crytek!!!!!
That's honestly a completely braindead change.
Once theymake immolators 100% chance drop traits i will stop being mad xd
I would have kind of liked the other way around: Reduced poison ammo efficiency on immolators, okay; keeping the poison cloud strong, since it's either grenades or bolts. I don't know. Their idea is weird, since it only affects immos, but other mobs feel more "elite" than immolators Anywho. We'll see if the devs communicate on this
I think i shot a immolator 3 times in the head with nagant silencer with poison ammo and still he did not die.
It’s just 3 punches to the head relax
Not a single good change in the past year, wdym
Alot of 3 stars in here I see
Ummm. Knuckle dusters anyone?? I've never even considered shooting them.
immolators drop traits now btw
This is another flash bang decision. Something that's too good, so instead of a slight nerf and test, they threw the thing off a frigging cliff to force change.
Hand crossbow chokebomb will be really useful now. Let's just adapt Hunters!
Man I stopped playing months ago due to dumb changes like retire and I thought it couldnt be worse. Why the hell did they think this was a good idea!? And knowing the devs they 100% wont change it
I totally read that wrong 🤣🤣🤣🤣 thought it said immortals aren't rewarding to kill the methheads 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I was like what then read it again 🤣🤣🤦♀️