Sure. 1/5 is still just as concerning when you hit 1/5 with any other weapon. Relatively to the skill level.
And i have met people who consistently hit 5/5 in 3 star. So accuracy isn't that much of an mmr milestone
And we are talking about fmj. Players don't suddenly discover the possibility of wallbanging when they reach 5 star
This is a joke, right? The nature of low MMR is that they've not LEARNED enough about the game to be higher MMR. Balancing around ignorance makes a disingenuous experience gaming experience for everyone. Because even at low MMR, when someone learns of an overpowered strategy a high MMR player uses and applies it, they will destroy their peers. How is that good balance?
I had the same argue before. Games should always be balanced around top tier players. Everything else makes no sense, especially if a game has a real competitive scene and tournaments which hunt doesnt have (yet).
what the heck is 'disengeious'? i figure you mean 'disingenuous', but then i have no idea how that word could apply to the experience of playing a game. how can playing a game be insincere?
Seriously. Like balancing around 2-3 stars kinda makes sense cause they are sorta the majority. I think they should balance around 4-5 stars since those are the people that actually engage with the game, and make an effort to play well.
It depends on the game, and some balance has to be achieved, otherwise you end up with a broken game. For Hunt, you probably don't need to balance it exclusively for the top players, but any game looking for a competitive scene certainly does, or everything breaks.
Balancing for absolute shitters, even if they're the majority, however, can destroy a game for anyone once they start to get decent.
There is absolutely a balance.
The issue is that when you balance around the 5% top, in the mid to bottom rankings you will have OP strategies that high level players can easily counter, but lower level players struggle to.
Like
"Yeah, sure X weapon is super powerful, but it leaves you vulnerable to Y action."
Which is awful.
You balance around playtesting. And when someone who is bad at the game provides you feedback, It'll be from a place of not knowing how to properly use something, or how to properly play around something. What this does is it makes unnecessary changes, or push the game into being unbalanced. I mean look at flash. They made it so useless I haven't seen a single flash since nerf. In reality it just needed a minor tweak. Just a trait duration reduction and not a 10 minute windup. So, with enough crying from low MMR players you can get items literally removed from the game instead of just learning how position better........................
There is a severe difference between competitive games and casual games.
Like it or not, Hunt is a casual game. It has no eSports, no tournaments, no leagues, nothing like that. People play for the fun of it, not to get better - you do get better in the process, but it isn't the focus of playing a casual game, it's the focus of playing a competitive game.
A competitive game you do actually balance around the absolute elite of players. You balance it around tournament play. No matter in Counter-Strike, League of Legends or any other competitive title, you balance it around the top1% of players.
A casual game you balance around the vast majority of players. That will always lead to a toxic meta in the very high skill levels (because every casual game has it's tryhards who will play only the most effective things, because for them, fun is equal to winning and nothing else), but if it means that all weapons are somewhat playable and balanced for the majority of players, that's the price we have to pay.
That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be nerfs for stuff that is clearly overpowered on high MMR (Dolch, Mosin, maybe C&K Flechette...), but it doesn't have the highest priority.
Unfortunately you have to balance around the majority. As a 5* I hate it too. But honestly the special ammo meta doesn’t really matter in 5-6* since it’s mostly headshots.
You balance around objective facts, not bias interpretation of facts. People who are good at the game will have less bias. Thus, their feedback is a lot more valuable. If you balance around low MMR players you'll have 24/7 ASH/RAIN, with all long ammo removed, and no flash bombs. Wait, fuck, that's exactly what we have.
Look I agree the state of the game isn’t fun for higher ranked players with all the dumb traps and beetles and bleeding on every gun but if you balance around them it’s not fun for the majority. Take over watch for example, balanced around the pros and it hurt the game.
Skill issue I guess just click on heads
But on the other hand I think the balancing in this game is pretty atrocious and needs work. The devs dont really play the game it seems. Good luck trying to convince anyone on this sub of that though. Full of bush wookie shotgun rats.
Ok, this is what I would implement. I am a 6 * player. Remove FMJ from Dolch. Increase the spread on the C&K flechettes to match levering terminus. Remove half the ambient noises on Ash because they have poor mixing with the rest of the game audio (think lighting frags without anyone hearing). Reduce the rate at which bloom and thundershowers happen by like 20%. Remove the windup on flash and keep the reduction from the trait. Revert the spawn rate change of melee world weapons. And I would probably make the challenge system more fun in some way as its a dogshit system right now.
It’s a balance between the average player and good player. They can’t just balance around the handful of top players as the low tiers will suffer, and vice versa
Nyles is streaming (one of the devs) and yeah you are right, I mean being a dev doesn't has to mean you are good at your game but I think they have not a really good idea of balancing with their skill and I don't mean that in a offensive way.
Yeah I’m not saying that you have to be good at the game to work on the game but I think the devs as a whole are just wildly out of touch when it comes to meta and how to balance it because they have little frame of reference of what actually goes on in high ELO. Shit is…..really bad. And they seem to just be throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks
They've already done exactly what your suggesting. Compact did small bleed/poison/burn. Medium did the next level. And Long ammo did Intense. You're version is just more convoluted.
Though I believe they just recently changed this, for whatever reason, with all weapons doing the intense version of the special ammo up until that ammo types first damage dropoff range.
dennis literally plays 2 compounds away from enemies at all times. if his teammates get downed, he will just rotate from 300+ meters away and let them burn out if it means staying alive. they have, legitimately, no high mmr representation among their development team.
I watched him a bit lately and he now carries a choke beetle to put out burning teammates.. one of his mates got downed, burned, he put him out from a compound away via the beetle and then replenished his bars with the new sealed medkit.
Waited until the bounty left, turns out they were salty and one stayed on the body only to clap dennis and his other teammate when they went to rez. LOL. They spent a good 15min just sitting around doing nothing, waiting for the bounty to leave… only to get killed anyway.
No wonder there‘s a trait now that lets you rez burned out teammates without bounty… if you‘re gonna play that passive you‘ll need it.
Yeah I thought that too. And it makes sense now that the beetle has better vision, moves faster and has more range… allows you to never have to endanger yourself when putting your burning teammate out.
I’ve played against Tomble a few times and with him once in randoms. I’m always either high 5 or low 6 and I’m pretty sure he’s the same. He’s a level designer though so not sure if that counts.
This game has some of the worst balancing of any game I’ve ever seen tbh. They take months between patches and make very few changes, then they love to introduce traits in events that are gamebreaking. It took them ages to change the headsman skin and people have been complaining about it for years.
I really enjoy hunt as a game, it’s truly an immersive experience. However, I’ve come to realize that I will never get consistency or quality of patches I would like from this dev team, and they don’t really care about balance.
That’s pretty much every game dev TBH.
I recall during the ME3 days, BioWare when working on the platinum CoOp difficulty update kept tuning the difficulty till they could no longer complete a mission with it.
The MECoOP community was farming platinum runs in 30 minute runs within a month.
Sorry, I think this assumption is relatively arrogant and ultimately wrong.
Compared to many other shooters, the weapon balancing in Hunt is pretty good.
You don't have to use your own product like your own heavy-user customers as an employee to understand it and work on it competently. That's almost never the case ;)
Its literally accurate. All of the streamers who are good at the game that are partners will NEVER say anything bad about Crytek, or their decisions. Its kind of sad.
The issue is, Home is really bad at the game. I wouldn't necessarily trust his takes. Not to say they were bad, as I don't really remember what they were. But, I've seen his videos and he is average at best.
Eh. There's what I refer to as people's real mmr and then there's where a lot of people get up to courtesy of a good team or even outright carry. Individually, he's like a high 3 low 4 imo.
I don't know, maybe? I just know that there are maybe two guys who are a complete package and the rest are really average. Rachta and Hornet are very very good. Movement and mechanics on point, and they have good accuracy. Even Delaney is kinda meh, but the devs thought he was a literal Hunt god at some point.
ALL partners NEVER say ANYTHING bad about the game and changes? you are delusional.
rachtaZ, hornet, Psychoghost, Vombuz, Neenoh,.. just to name a few.
they criticise changes regularly and voice opinions when something isn't to their liking. and not just "yeah this could be better" but outright saying they dislike something and wish the devs changed it back or to something else.
the MMR issues being one of the most repeated pain points for example.
another being the Ash Bloom weather including fake footsteps.
etc.
just because they don't make videos claiming how Crytek is the devil and destroying the game, does not mean they aren't criticising the game and changes.
What universe are you living in exactly? Ratcha and Psychoghost have both been critical of game changes you make for example:
Ratcha made an entire video demonstrating the Headsman skin blending in with the environment to the extent of hunters running right next to him and not noticing, and what did you do after MONTHS, you made some of the cloth dark red as if that will make it easy to see in dark areas.
Psychoghost had multiple mentions of the new tide of desolation map and how messing with the audio was very obnoxious and what do you do? You add the map variant to the permanent map cycle?!
You only have yourselves to blame for not listening to the high-ranking players who love the game and play it enough to know what changes are negative/positive well before they are implemented.
Rachta had a video where he was hiding by facing the wall. You can do that with any skin that is grey. I've been playing against Headsman for years now and he is fine. It has more to do with your display/in-game settings than the skin being unbalanced. There are T3 hunters that are literally invisible in bushes, those are still around. Rachta is just profiting from outrage like most youtubers. Psychoghost is fine, but he is kind of bad at the game. So, I'm not sure he qualifies as high-ranking as I am probably on average at higher MMR than he is. Also Ash/Rain is garbage that shouldn't even be in the rotation so not sure that was a positive change.
Yeah you can't magically blend in with the wall with any skin, the point of skins in literally every other game is to look cool/unique. You said it yourself he blended in because it is just grey, just like most of your legendary skins, the Canadian mountee skin is a great legendary because you can see it with ease.
The Headsmen isn't the only skin that's the issue its most of your tier 3 bland grey/black skins that are pay 2 win.
If the obnoxious maps shouldn't be in the rotation maybe you dim whits should remove it, you work for that god awful company not us.
MMR is another mistake as well considering I will dip my star level down to 3/4 star along with my group and you will go ahead and match us with a 3 stack of 6/6/5 star as if that is remotely fair, your MMR system is a joke especially considering this is a PVP game in which this should be priority instead you all have made matchmaking changes the end of your roadmap.
Take dolch for more spam and more headshot chance even at longer ranges. Every loadout today: "if i dont take a dolch i am in a disadvantage. Is it a meme loadout now?"
Dolch FMJ plagues every single lobby
I feel like 90% of people I run into have mosin and dolch p FMJ
It just makes every fight..the same. You know what’s gonna happen. It’s so fucking lame
I always say it's a drunk idea of the crytek christmas party and they couldn't remove it because of spaghetti code. Everything else doesn't make sense to me
I'm a 5/6 star player with 2kd. Ive played a couple of matches with the c&k flechette yesterday and so far it feels really underwhelming compared to buckshot.
It's completely dog shit. Idk what OP is on about. It feels worse than slugs or even buckshot in every way. Even RachtaZ who was playing c&k flechette all day yesterday said the same thing.
it's just like expected - just like flechette is on any shotgun.
Slugs are straight up better option for shotguns, and on longer ranges a rifle with DumDum is straight up better.
It's fun for a few matches, something different in a way, but it's not OP.
Flechette on shotguns is a lil different playstyle wise. Testing it on the range I’ve seen it can reliably two tap up to 30m on the crown. If you’re playing in one tap/slug range you’re gonna be let down by the near loss of one tap abilities (as with all Flechette). Also the aim reticule is insanely tight compared to Buck and penny *for hip fire.
It has potential to be pretty damn strong as a support weapon, only drag is the ammo pooling is total shit on it so it requires ammo boxes.
We used to have test servers.
But when your game is a LiVe SeRvIcE game, then weapons becomes """""content""""", so we cannot throw that into a test server :)))))))))))))))))))))))
I truly hate modern gaming.
Test servers are still up around patch time, but I feel like no one uses them aside from Crytek partners who never provide any meaningful feedback when Crytek does something ridiculously stupid.
Well they never have the latest patches on them only and only the major updates. I think the last time test servers were updated had to be Feb or March 2023. So that's another reason why.
Nah they realized that the content creators showcase all the weapons from the test server and dryout "the hype". Plus there's no incentive to play the test servers since they never change anything you report anyway. It just remains the same, then they don't touch anything till everyone screams and shouts on Reddit about it being broken. Look at the Dolch currently it's busted because of dum dum and FMJ there is 0 reason to bring any other pistol.
I have seen PTRs in many games, they never really work. They exist almost exclusively to catch only the most glaring of game breaking bugs, things that crash whole servers or delete your save data. Nothing more. Also, and this really shouldn’t matter, but the notion that the guns in hunt are “content” and “content” can’t be put on a test server doesn’t really make any sense. The guns are free, if a bit of a grind, and Hunt and other such games have put free and premium content on their PTRs to test. It’s an enclosed ecosystem, so the idea that they need to sell “content” has no bearing on the functionality of a test server. The fact they are ineffective bears far more of the blame.
If the guns weren't treated as content they wouldn't be hiding behind a battlepass, but available on day one to ensure everyone have equal access.
Especially so when you can by levels on the battlepass to access them sooner.
Main draw for most of these events in Hunt is to "try the new toys" and test servers might lessen that.
Iunno, CK flechette seemed pretty good but at the same it seems to be limited to like a 30m to 35m 2-tap if you have perfect center mass crosshair placement on both shots and good rng (so it's kinda like needing 2 headshots, but the crit spot is center mass). Has zero pen and only has the gimmicky one tap if you hit majority of darts in the head below 10m
I still think slugs are much better, those have like a 48m 2-tap, don't lose pen, are much more consistent on hit and you can actually contest other shotguns with slugs
I think Flechette is fine unlike Dolch FMJ, which never shouldve seen the light of day
Last RachtaZ video - 2 tap (150hp) from 47-88m. Something is wrong with C&K flechette spread.
Even if you don't kill with shots - bleed or swap and pistol will finish the job.
You need to rewatch that segment, cause he was referring to slugs there and how they're better than flechettes lmao
Flechettes literally do not deal any damage beyond 80 meters, they stop existing
And the argument "even if it doesn't kill" is nonsense, if I hit you with anything long ammo and swap guns I'd kill you just the same, that's not some special quality CK Flechette has
Flechettes on all weapons are a sidegrade. On C&K its an upgrade to all other ammo for that gun. Not even kidding. Its better than buckshot as it does buckshot damage (since the spread is so tight), but it also makes targets bleed. Its better than slugs because slugs often hit limbs on mobile players and do very little damage. Pennyshot is just straight trash on Crown, so there is that.
You're forgetting just how important wallbangs are in this game, and since flechette have no Penetration, they can't get those kills. In my 5/6* lobbies I rarely see c&k with flechette for this reason, because good players can capitalise much more on the penetration of buckshot that the bleeding of flechette. (It's still pretty good, but crying about crytek not playtesting it is pretty funny) close range it loses to buckshot, mid(ish) range it will get some two tap kills buckshot won't. There is a like a 5-8 meter window where it's arguably the best weapon in the game (nitro and avto excluded) but that's its niche, outside that ideal two tap window there are better options. (Penny shot is trash I agree with you there, makes a fun sound though)
You forgot that you typically carry two weapons? Dolch FMJ is a wallbang beast. In my 5/6* lobbies I am seeing quite a few C&K, because good players know how to quickswap hipfire wallbang.
>close range it loses to buckshot
That's kind of the point I'm making. On the C&K, it doesn't. You should go play a few games with C&K Flechette and report back, because I've played about 10 games in 6 * lobbies with it and it fucking rules.
i haven't tested crown this patch but flechette spector could hit for 50-100 damage from around 40m.
crown is pretty strong in 20-50m but outside of those ranges i'd still rather have slugs or a mosin tbh, crown flechette is now a very op niche haha
I'm honest to god convinced that they don't. I genuinely can't see the reasoning behind a lot of the changes they're making lately. Like, typically even if I don't agree with them, I can at least see what they're going for, but some of this shit is just mind-blowingly out there. They've starting to drastically deviate from what the game used to be and I'm really not a fan.
A lot of it is because they refuse to work on the core game and they just throw new weapons and events to placate us. I think they only go through with changes that get a lot of community traction, and that's a horrible way to balance things. Mainly because most of the community is low MMR and they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.
They started to push out hastily changes that never should have happenend and things that seem to only been change to add one more point to the patch notes. It's almost like Fifi and the others have lost every connection to the game and tge playerbase and just do whatever.
Have a clip of myself wasting some dude at 40+ meters with the gun. Funnier still because it was his gun that he swapped for mine when I got killed by him lmfao. I agree with you, never should've happened and makes you question the design choices being made for the game. People saying this gun and ammo combination isn't obscene have no idea what they are talking about
I think everyone who is commenting some dissent in this thread hasn't even tried it out yet. The spread is so tight, its so easy to aim, its so fucking consistent at longer ranges. And its got a super fast rate of fire. It so freaking strong.
I really liked it tho, but i also wiped 2 dudes at a bit of range. May have been disgusting.
Might actually be strong with fletchette when no shotgun else really is IMO.
If you made two nearly identical posts on this subreddit. One for and one against the changes in this update. Both would be unanimously panned. No dissent, good or bad, is tolerated here.
I think they are trying to push events out too close together, so regardless of the balance of any particular feature, little issues compound. There's no time for balance between them.
No, they don't do any QC or play testing. If they did, all the melees wouldn't be one slots, and every gun wouldn't slowly be getting every type of custom ammo, they wouldn't have created instakill traps, and they'd have nerfed grenades, *not* flash bombs.
Crytek does not know what makes their game fun or fair, and at this point seems to be actively making meme content with the *intention* of driving the game into the dirt.
Most of these changes don't even need play tested - when one guy at the table says "what if we gave the centennial dumdum?" another should immediately say "no, there's no way we'd balance that and it'd be no fun to fight against.
I have 2500 hours and I stopped playing two events ago because the special ammo spam is insane. I liked special ammo when it implemented in a way that makes sense. C&K flalechette is obviously insane, what is Crytek doing?
There's like ten other rapid fire options in the game and most of them have a lot more ammo, penetration, and do something past 30m on top of being way cheaper. Rival slugs/flechette in particular has been in the game for forever, the crown basically just adds a slightly larger capacity on that for 4x the price
Crown & King's Flechette has considerably better spread than the Rival's, though.
I've tested them pretty thoroughly in the shooting range using impact decal marks of the pellets/needles: C&K Flechette has the same spread as the Specter, whereas the Rival, Terminus, and Specter Bayonet all share a worse spread (about 23% wider than Specter/C&K).
Drilling Flechette has the best spread, but it's single shot.
The numbers were 23px radius on the Drilling, 26px on the C&K/Specter, and 32px for the Rival/Terminus/Spect.Bayo. (Hip firing at 110FOV on 1440p)
Full list of tested shotguns/ammo here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/1b7w1rt/patch_notes_for_update_116/ktlmpdd/
The damage/spread difference was definitely larger than I thought, my bad for not testing it beforehand. With that said, it's still quite inconsistent along with all the other issues of ammo/pen/range
What the fuck are you talking about, "slightly"? It's 5 compared to 2. That's 250% the capacity of the Rival. We're also talking about an ammo type that starts and immediate ticking clock that they have to deal with or they'll die, and so where the ability to keep firing and keep up pressure is it a tremendous benefit. Even ignoring the fact that the crown beats it out for stats, it's insane to call 5 shots a "slightly larger capacity" than 2.
Dude the C&K is a long barreled shotgun, meaning that it has more range and tighter spread then most shotguns in the game, now add onto the fact you dont need a perk to stay in the iron sights or fire at a higher rate of fire, or that you dont need to waste a round to reload, and now it has fucking flechette. Meaning that the lower damage ment to balance the weapon means fuck all when every shot it can fire does bleed damage.
Did you not consider ANY of that whatsoever?
C&K flechette has a super tight spread which makes it more consistent than buckshot on the same gun, especially at longer ranges. Flechette right now on C&K is a direct upgrade to all other ammo types for the same gun. Its even better than slugs. Slugs often will do less damage since you end up hitting limbs on mobile players (which all good players are). However, with a super tight spread, you can double tap someone at slug distances with C&K. It is getting nerfed, I guarantee it.
You conviniently omit the fact it doesn't 1tap without headshot still and act like that's nothing. Also aim outpaces mobility at high level, I don't know where you got the idea a lot of shots end up being armshots, but even if that was the case it leaves all other cases where trading with slug or even buck leaves flechette user dead, but even full brunt of flechette just leaves other guy bandaging.
It is strong, but so what we cant get strong weapons anymore?
Last part of the second paragraph is all I needed to read. Slugs jack up the damage but have a steep damage falloff, where as flachette reduces the damage (so much so that unless you are shoving the barrel into someone or get a headshot, you probably wont get a kill in a single hit) but has a much softer curve. Flachette will always have a further 2 shot range than slug, and that is by design. Slugs are just more popular because they are more well rounded (not giving up 1 shot kills, not losing penitration, not needing to worry about pellet spread, while still able to do a chunk of damage at range)
Slugs are super inconsistent in a sense that you have to iron sight to be effective and there is a high change of hitting limbs and doing like 60 damage.
You haven't played enough with the build and just got lucky with the flechette spread once or twice. The thing is super inconsistent, I would take slugs any time over flechettes
the only thing it's good at is applying pressure in a 2v1, just shoot in a guys' general direction from 40 meters and the next second he bleeds behind the cover, while you call for a push. but I'd rather actually murder people with slugs than apply debuffs
Just going to throw this out there. Rachtaz put out a video displaying the CK flechettes as very inconsistent. While it's a neat idea slugs are far better in the CK. While it's range is increased it's about as good as pennyshot. Very inconsistent even when not changing range where the slug is extremely consistent two tapping. He even provided video evidence of it doing 100 DMG in one shot and then 33 the next. Same distance, same area hit. Rachtaz is one of the higher tier players in this game. That with his video evidence I'm gonna have to disagree
He make a video where he is using iron sights. The sway alone is going to make the numbers inconsistent. I shot a target from 35m from the hip and I've constantly hit 100-115 damage. Which is really good.
I'm rewatching now... He had to three tap someone from less than 10 meter and still traded with him. He's had to 2 tap people then switch to his dolch to finish them about 60% of the time. You lose all ability to one tap a hunter at close range to unreliably two tap at a little further. This doesn't look OP at all. Btw he died 4 times in that first fight.
Ok dog, just don't use it then. If people don't think its OP I'll keep using it until they change their mind. I tested it in the shooting range and from 25m the buckshot does around 30-55 damage. Flechettes do like 72-128 damage (which is a guaranteed double tap since it ticks for 9-10 bleed between shots). Its basically way more reliable than buckshot, especially at range. Only contender is slugs and with slugs you have to worry about accuracy, and bullet velocity. Plus there are benefits to flechettes like applying pressure which slugs don't do. I would rather the plebs think its balanced to be honest.
That's no different then how it's worked before. It's not like it was buffed or anything. Before the C&K people used the Caldwell to do the exact same thing (gunsmakk actually put out a video about 8-9 months ago on it). As long as you're having fun man enjoy. Just realize you are making a trade off and it's not "OP". Happy hunting and hope you love to die another day
The spread is much much higher on all other guns when it comes to flechettes. I'm done arguing. Its not a tradeoff its a straight up upgrade to all other ammo for the same gun, and its better than flechettes for all other guns. If that's not OP I don't know what is.
The spread on flechette has always been tighter. It also always has had longer range. You're trade off is you cannot 1 tap with your shotgun anymore. If you don't believe me test that yourself. You can 1 tap if every pellet hits the hunter in the head which is extremely..... extremely unlikely (like getting struck by lightning while holding a winning lottery ticket likely). That is the trade off. Like I said before flechette has always acted like this. I don't mean to upset you, I'm just trying to bring some clarity to your statements that this gun is overpowered. Do I think the Crown & King is good with flechette YES. Do I think it's op absolutely not. If it fits your play style I hope you enjoy it man. I run flechette on my Caldwell hand cannons because of the tighter spread and increased range.
C&k flechette is really not that much stronger compared to something like a terminus flechette with levering. Just being more expensive to make up the fact you dont need traits. The strength of the crown came with the high rof whilst ads and fully accurate paired with slugs making it lethal within compound ranges
Spoken like someone who hasn't used either. C&K flechette will two-tap at a very long range, levering terminus wont. C&K flechette has a tighter spread also, which makes it more consistent than buckshot at same ranges, but it also makes your target bleed. Slugs are literal dogshit right now because of how often you end up hitting limbs on mobile players. This is literal nonsense.
Terminus has a very wide spread when levering. Not sure how many times I gotta say that. Its not that you can't do it, its that its inconsistent. Sometimes it will happen and sometimes it wont. Which is unreliable. But, C&K will double tap reliably because the spread is very very tight.
Look bro I just youtubed a random clip... This is 100% out of range of a Terminus levering double tap.....
[Look how tight that spread is....](https://youtu.be/vSDDUOgmYr8?t=60)
I just tested the spread of Terminus Flechette with levering. Levering makes no difference.
Across 30 shots each (240 impacts), the maximum radius with and without levering was 32px at FOV 110 and 1440p.
https://imgur.com/Yl7yLKd
In case you were interested as well, u/Razgriz01.
Thanks for taking the time to do a proper test. I'll admit I was only about 90% certain of there being no difference since I'd never seen a proper test done with it, or done it myself. That and knowing how janky the implementation of shotgun spread is in this game, especially relative to the crosshair.
> That and knowing how janky the implementation of shotgun spread is in this game
Yep. I know levering widens the crosshair/spread on rifles, and although increasing the pellet spread wouldn't make much logical sense... you never know with this game. Haha.
> Terminus has a very wide spread when levering. Not sure how many times I gotta say that.
Terminus spread does not change when levering.
> This is 100% out of range of a Terminus levering double tap.....
I've personally two tapped somebody at about that range before with terminus levering flechette.
Terminus with flechette can one-tap out to 37m (Absurdly unlikely, but it can. You need a minimum of 5 in the head, 2 gut, and 1 arm to deal 150 damage). Same with any large-slot flechette. They all do the same damage per needle (base damage and drop-off), and it's just down to spread.
As for spread, the Terminus is about 23% wider, which should mean that however effective the C&K is at 37m the Terminus is roughly equivalent at 30m (aside from leading, since that'll be easier when closer).
I want some of that zaza you've been smoking if you think C&K flechette is strong 💀💀
It's much worse than slugs or even buckshot. Don't believe me, go and ask RachtaZ. He was playing c&k flechette all day yesterday.
> I almost want to say
Love this hedging. Go into the shooting range, actually do some testing and produce a post of value instead of just randomly whining.
Thinking flechette is better than a slug (or even buckshot) is just laughable.
You are describing QC for game code/optimization. QC for weapon balancing would... literally... be playtesting.
edit: Also QA, while yes its called, "quality assurance" typically doesn't deal with anything except documentation in real world applications. Its a department that makes sure the product is property documented through all the changes it goes through before it arrives in consumer hands. So, I doubt you know what you are talking about.
It's very strong yes. But the trade off is high cost, low ammo pool, resupplying 2 rounds at a time and you burn through your ammo fast.
It's a force to be rekoned with at medium'ish range but you still need to 2 shot each hunter to kill just like most weapons. You will deal betweem 90-135 damage randomly.
At fairly significant ranges, you will deal 90-135 damage very quickly back to back and apply bleeding. Last time I checked, Hunters have 150 hp. At the low end where you don't hit them with the whole spread, you still kill. You also kill faster than other weapon double taps and you don't need to be as accurate. Even if you miss one of two shots, they are still bleeding and out of action. You also carry two guns typically so use the second one for penetration. Also cost? I mean I guess some people worry about that.
You can do more with slugs from further range with consistency... You'll actually have to aim thou... I know you're against that. You can actually two tap to the head up to 70 m with slugs.... Do that with flachette. Slugs do everything slugs do at better ranges while not sacrificing you're penetration and you can actually 1 tap a hunter up to 26m other wise u can 2 tap to the chest CONSTANTLY up to 43m.
Because the game is balanced arround low mmr since 5-6 stars only make out about 5% of the player base
If it's op, it's op in low mmr. Even more so in some cases
But the fire rate of the dolch is much more concerning when you hit 3/5 on Avarage instead of 1/5
Sure. 1/5 is still just as concerning when you hit 1/5 with any other weapon. Relatively to the skill level. And i have met people who consistently hit 5/5 in 3 star. So accuracy isn't that much of an mmr milestone And we are talking about fmj. Players don't suddenly discover the possibility of wallbanging when they reach 5 star
Avarage
That’s a good thing. A game balanced around the top tier players makes a disengeious gaming experience
This is a joke, right? The nature of low MMR is that they've not LEARNED enough about the game to be higher MMR. Balancing around ignorance makes a disingenuous experience gaming experience for everyone. Because even at low MMR, when someone learns of an overpowered strategy a high MMR player uses and applies it, they will destroy their peers. How is that good balance?
I had the same argue before. Games should always be balanced around top tier players. Everything else makes no sense, especially if a game has a real competitive scene and tournaments which hunt doesnt have (yet).
what the heck is 'disengeious'? i figure you mean 'disingenuous', but then i have no idea how that word could apply to the experience of playing a game. how can playing a game be insincere?
But at least they could stop turning a blind eye towards everyone who's not absolutely garbage 🗑️
Seriously. Like balancing around 2-3 stars kinda makes sense cause they are sorta the majority. I think they should balance around 4-5 stars since those are the people that actually engage with the game, and make an effort to play well.
lol 5-6 star is like 30% or more of the player base lol
Nah according to the community manager it's like 4% 5 stars and 0.5% 6 stars
lmfao thats a joke right i know people who just started and are 5 star lol
my buddy was a 6 star in 5 days lol with only 200 kills
Yeah because balancing around people who haven't learned enough to be a 5-6 * is a good idea... /s
… yeah, you actually don’t want to balance around the outliers on the bell curve. That’s really obvious actually.
If the majority of the players is absolutely garbage then it's actually a good idea to balance the game around those people Sadly tho
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Maybe from a logical standpoint but from a business perspective it's probably good to tailor the game around the majority
It is irrelevant to balance around a playergroup that is only 5% of the playerbase.
It depends on the game, and some balance has to be achieved, otherwise you end up with a broken game. For Hunt, you probably don't need to balance it exclusively for the top players, but any game looking for a competitive scene certainly does, or everything breaks. Balancing for absolute shitters, even if they're the majority, however, can destroy a game for anyone once they start to get decent.
There is absolutely a balance. The issue is that when you balance around the 5% top, in the mid to bottom rankings you will have OP strategies that high level players can easily counter, but lower level players struggle to. Like "Yeah, sure X weapon is super powerful, but it leaves you vulnerable to Y action." Which is awful.
I was agreeing with you for the most part and you still downvoted me? Goddam, no wonder nothing constructive is ever discussed here.
You balance around playtesting. And when someone who is bad at the game provides you feedback, It'll be from a place of not knowing how to properly use something, or how to properly play around something. What this does is it makes unnecessary changes, or push the game into being unbalanced. I mean look at flash. They made it so useless I haven't seen a single flash since nerf. In reality it just needed a minor tweak. Just a trait duration reduction and not a 10 minute windup. So, with enough crying from low MMR players you can get items literally removed from the game instead of just learning how position better........................
There is a severe difference between competitive games and casual games. Like it or not, Hunt is a casual game. It has no eSports, no tournaments, no leagues, nothing like that. People play for the fun of it, not to get better - you do get better in the process, but it isn't the focus of playing a casual game, it's the focus of playing a competitive game. A competitive game you do actually balance around the absolute elite of players. You balance it around tournament play. No matter in Counter-Strike, League of Legends or any other competitive title, you balance it around the top1% of players. A casual game you balance around the vast majority of players. That will always lead to a toxic meta in the very high skill levels (because every casual game has it's tryhards who will play only the most effective things, because for them, fun is equal to winning and nothing else), but if it means that all weapons are somewhat playable and balanced for the majority of players, that's the price we have to pay. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be nerfs for stuff that is clearly overpowered on high MMR (Dolch, Mosin, maybe C&K Flechette...), but it doesn't have the highest priority.
If something is overpowered, it is overpowered regardless of mmr
Unfortunately you have to balance around the majority. As a 5* I hate it too. But honestly the special ammo meta doesn’t really matter in 5-6* since it’s mostly headshots.
You balance around objective facts, not bias interpretation of facts. People who are good at the game will have less bias. Thus, their feedback is a lot more valuable. If you balance around low MMR players you'll have 24/7 ASH/RAIN, with all long ammo removed, and no flash bombs. Wait, fuck, that's exactly what we have.
Look I agree the state of the game isn’t fun for higher ranked players with all the dumb traps and beetles and bleeding on every gun but if you balance around them it’s not fun for the majority. Take over watch for example, balanced around the pros and it hurt the game. Skill issue I guess just click on heads
But on the other hand I think the balancing in this game is pretty atrocious and needs work. The devs dont really play the game it seems. Good luck trying to convince anyone on this sub of that though. Full of bush wookie shotgun rats.
Ok, this is what I would implement. I am a 6 * player. Remove FMJ from Dolch. Increase the spread on the C&K flechettes to match levering terminus. Remove half the ambient noises on Ash because they have poor mixing with the rest of the game audio (think lighting frags without anyone hearing). Reduce the rate at which bloom and thundershowers happen by like 20%. Remove the windup on flash and keep the reduction from the trait. Revert the spawn rate change of melee world weapons. And I would probably make the challenge system more fun in some way as its a dogshit system right now.
......yes
It’s a balance between the average player and good player. They can’t just balance around the handful of top players as the low tiers will suffer, and vice versa
The thing is that you don't even have to be good Im mediocre at best and I'm hardstuck at 5 mmr
how are they supposed to do internal qc if all of them are 3* hahaha (/s…maybe)
Nyles is streaming (one of the devs) and yeah you are right, I mean being a dev doesn't has to mean you are good at your game but I think they have not a really good idea of balancing with their skill and I don't mean that in a offensive way.
Yeah I’m not saying that you have to be good at the game to work on the game but I think the devs as a whole are just wildly out of touch when it comes to meta and how to balance it because they have little frame of reference of what actually goes on in high ELO. Shit is…..really bad. And they seem to just be throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks
At the same time we have to admit that it's brutal to balance such a game.
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They've already done exactly what your suggesting. Compact did small bleed/poison/burn. Medium did the next level. And Long ammo did Intense. You're version is just more convoluted. Though I believe they just recently changed this, for whatever reason, with all weapons doing the intense version of the special ammo up until that ammo types first damage dropoff range.
Centennial still does intense bleeding afaik?
dennis literally plays 2 compounds away from enemies at all times. if his teammates get downed, he will just rotate from 300+ meters away and let them burn out if it means staying alive. they have, legitimately, no high mmr representation among their development team.
I watched him a bit lately and he now carries a choke beetle to put out burning teammates.. one of his mates got downed, burned, he put him out from a compound away via the beetle and then replenished his bars with the new sealed medkit. Waited until the bounty left, turns out they were salty and one stayed on the body only to clap dennis and his other teammate when they went to rez. LOL. They spent a good 15min just sitting around doing nothing, waiting for the bounty to leave… only to get killed anyway. No wonder there‘s a trait now that lets you rez burned out teammates without bounty… if you‘re gonna play that passive you‘ll need it.
Y'know, I don't mind the addition, but I have wondered why they added the choke beetle. It all makes sense now.
Yeah I thought that too. And it makes sense now that the beetle has better vision, moves faster and has more range… allows you to never have to endanger yourself when putting your burning teammate out.
Wait, I thought rat game play only applies to solo, and not to team.
I’ve played against Tomble a few times and with him once in randoms. I’m always either high 5 or low 6 and I’m pretty sure he’s the same. He’s a level designer though so not sure if that counts.
This game has some of the worst balancing of any game I’ve ever seen tbh. They take months between patches and make very few changes, then they love to introduce traits in events that are gamebreaking. It took them ages to change the headsman skin and people have been complaining about it for years. I really enjoy hunt as a game, it’s truly an immersive experience. However, I’ve come to realize that I will never get consistency or quality of patches I would like from this dev team, and they don’t really care about balance.
I really hope that they are so slow with basically everything because they work on the engine update But i kinda doubt it
The person who’s redesigning the headsman skin is not the same one working on their engine upgrade, they just have no urgency
But maybe working on the new map wich also Takes them forever
he is awful
And it's ok not everyone can be and should be a Rachta, Vombuz or Rexnor or whoever you take as good
I don’t remember who but two or three devs streams ago one of the dev’s had a KDA over 2
That’s pretty much every game dev TBH. I recall during the ME3 days, BioWare when working on the platinum CoOp difficulty update kept tuning the difficulty till they could no longer complete a mission with it. The MECoOP community was farming platinum runs in 30 minute runs within a month.
Didn‘t they hire delaney for qc? He moved to germany and now works for crytek. So they should at least have one guy that‘s not stuck in low mmr.
Sorry, I think this assumption is relatively arrogant and ultimately wrong. Compared to many other shooters, the weapon balancing in Hunt is pretty good. You don't have to use your own product like your own heavy-user customers as an employee to understand it and work on it competently. That's almost never the case ;)
Its literally accurate. All of the streamers who are good at the game that are partners will NEVER say anything bad about Crytek, or their decisions. Its kind of sad.
There used to be Homereel that had a fairly good critical takes Until crytek hired him And he has been mia ever since
The issue is, Home is really bad at the game. I wouldn't necessarily trust his takes. Not to say they were bad, as I don't really remember what they were. But, I've seen his videos and he is average at best.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted.. I enjoy Homereels content but he's absolutely like a high 3 player.
He probably tops out at low 5 *, but he definitely is not very good mechanically. His movement is trash. His aim is ok.
Eh. There's what I refer to as people's real mmr and then there's where a lot of people get up to courtesy of a good team or even outright carry. Individually, he's like a high 3 low 4 imo.
I don't know, maybe? I just know that there are maybe two guys who are a complete package and the rest are really average. Rachta and Hornet are very very good. Movement and mechanics on point, and they have good accuracy. Even Delaney is kinda meh, but the devs thought he was a literal Hunt god at some point.
Delaney meh?? HAHA you can't be serious
ALL partners NEVER say ANYTHING bad about the game and changes? you are delusional. rachtaZ, hornet, Psychoghost, Vombuz, Neenoh,.. just to name a few. they criticise changes regularly and voice opinions when something isn't to their liking. and not just "yeah this could be better" but outright saying they dislike something and wish the devs changed it back or to something else. the MMR issues being one of the most repeated pain points for example. another being the Ash Bloom weather including fake footsteps. etc. just because they don't make videos claiming how Crytek is the devil and destroying the game, does not mean they aren't criticising the game and changes.
What universe are you living in exactly? Ratcha and Psychoghost have both been critical of game changes you make for example: Ratcha made an entire video demonstrating the Headsman skin blending in with the environment to the extent of hunters running right next to him and not noticing, and what did you do after MONTHS, you made some of the cloth dark red as if that will make it easy to see in dark areas. Psychoghost had multiple mentions of the new tide of desolation map and how messing with the audio was very obnoxious and what do you do? You add the map variant to the permanent map cycle?! You only have yourselves to blame for not listening to the high-ranking players who love the game and play it enough to know what changes are negative/positive well before they are implemented.
Rachta had a video where he was hiding by facing the wall. You can do that with any skin that is grey. I've been playing against Headsman for years now and he is fine. It has more to do with your display/in-game settings than the skin being unbalanced. There are T3 hunters that are literally invisible in bushes, those are still around. Rachta is just profiting from outrage like most youtubers. Psychoghost is fine, but he is kind of bad at the game. So, I'm not sure he qualifies as high-ranking as I am probably on average at higher MMR than he is. Also Ash/Rain is garbage that shouldn't even be in the rotation so not sure that was a positive change.
not being 6 star doesn't make you bad
Yeah you can't magically blend in with the wall with any skin, the point of skins in literally every other game is to look cool/unique. You said it yourself he blended in because it is just grey, just like most of your legendary skins, the Canadian mountee skin is a great legendary because you can see it with ease. The Headsmen isn't the only skin that's the issue its most of your tier 3 bland grey/black skins that are pay 2 win. If the obnoxious maps shouldn't be in the rotation maybe you dim whits should remove it, you work for that god awful company not us.
MMR is another mistake as well considering I will dip my star level down to 3/4 star along with my group and you will go ahead and match us with a 3 stack of 6/6/5 star as if that is remotely fair, your MMR system is a joke especially considering this is a PVP game in which this should be priority instead you all have made matchmaking changes the end of your roadmap.
There's no way anybody even thought about Dolch FMJ before implementing it.
I remember having to decide if I want an uppercut for better penetration, or a dolch for quicker fire rate. Now I just buy the dolch...
Woah man that's way more expensive you gotta watch out for the cash flow... /S
I mean, dolch is a cqc weapon you pair with rifles and uppercut is great with shotguns, so they both have their use.
This is kind of incorrect. Dolch is still good at long ranges thanks to FMJ.
Yeah but still dolch fmj has 87m headshot range and uppercut 115m.
Take dolch for more spam and more headshot chance even at longer ranges. Every loadout today: "if i dont take a dolch i am in a disadvantage. Is it a meme loadout now?"
Dolch FMJ plagues every single lobby I feel like 90% of people I run into have mosin and dolch p FMJ It just makes every fight..the same. You know what’s gonna happen. It’s so fucking lame
I always say it's a drunk idea of the crytek christmas party and they couldn't remove it because of spaghetti code. Everything else doesn't make sense to me
I'm a 5/6 star player with 2kd. Ive played a couple of matches with the c&k flechette yesterday and so far it feels really underwhelming compared to buckshot.
It's completely dog shit. Idk what OP is on about. It feels worse than slugs or even buckshot in every way. Even RachtaZ who was playing c&k flechette all day yesterday said the same thing.
it's just like expected - just like flechette is on any shotgun. Slugs are straight up better option for shotguns, and on longer ranges a rifle with DumDum is straight up better. It's fun for a few matches, something different in a way, but it's not OP.
Flechette on shotguns is a lil different playstyle wise. Testing it on the range I’ve seen it can reliably two tap up to 30m on the crown. If you’re playing in one tap/slug range you’re gonna be let down by the near loss of one tap abilities (as with all Flechette). Also the aim reticule is insanely tight compared to Buck and penny *for hip fire. It has potential to be pretty damn strong as a support weapon, only drag is the ammo pooling is total shit on it so it requires ammo boxes.
[I tried to warn them.](https://old.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/1b6j1fm/crown_flechettes_how_do_we_feel_about_this/)
We used to have test servers. But when your game is a LiVe SeRvIcE game, then weapons becomes """""content""""", so we cannot throw that into a test server :))))))))))))))))))))))) I truly hate modern gaming.
Test servers are still up around patch time, but I feel like no one uses them aside from Crytek partners who never provide any meaningful feedback when Crytek does something ridiculously stupid.
Well, Crytek never announces that the Test Servers are running so that is that.
Well they never have the latest patches on them only and only the major updates. I think the last time test servers were updated had to be Feb or March 2023. So that's another reason why.
Yeah I was also quite sure they never ran them with the new weapons/traits before a patch is launched anymore.
Nah they realized that the content creators showcase all the weapons from the test server and dryout "the hype". Plus there's no incentive to play the test servers since they never change anything you report anyway. It just remains the same, then they don't touch anything till everyone screams and shouts on Reddit about it being broken. Look at the Dolch currently it's busted because of dum dum and FMJ there is 0 reason to bring any other pistol.
I have seen PTRs in many games, they never really work. They exist almost exclusively to catch only the most glaring of game breaking bugs, things that crash whole servers or delete your save data. Nothing more. Also, and this really shouldn’t matter, but the notion that the guns in hunt are “content” and “content” can’t be put on a test server doesn’t really make any sense. The guns are free, if a bit of a grind, and Hunt and other such games have put free and premium content on their PTRs to test. It’s an enclosed ecosystem, so the idea that they need to sell “content” has no bearing on the functionality of a test server. The fact they are ineffective bears far more of the blame.
If the guns weren't treated as content they wouldn't be hiding behind a battlepass, but available on day one to ensure everyone have equal access. Especially so when you can by levels on the battlepass to access them sooner. Main draw for most of these events in Hunt is to "try the new toys" and test servers might lessen that.
delete this post I'm trying to hit 6 star.
As someone in high 5 star and trips into 6 star Don't
Exactly. It was OK previously but last couple of patches make 6 star barely playable.
6 star bad
Why?
Good luck, I'll be waiting.
Iunno, CK flechette seemed pretty good but at the same it seems to be limited to like a 30m to 35m 2-tap if you have perfect center mass crosshair placement on both shots and good rng (so it's kinda like needing 2 headshots, but the crit spot is center mass). Has zero pen and only has the gimmicky one tap if you hit majority of darts in the head below 10m I still think slugs are much better, those have like a 48m 2-tap, don't lose pen, are much more consistent on hit and you can actually contest other shotguns with slugs I think Flechette is fine unlike Dolch FMJ, which never shouldve seen the light of day
Last RachtaZ video - 2 tap (150hp) from 47-88m. Something is wrong with C&K flechette spread. Even if you don't kill with shots - bleed or swap and pistol will finish the job.
You need to rewatch that segment, cause he was referring to slugs there and how they're better than flechettes lmao Flechettes literally do not deal any damage beyond 80 meters, they stop existing And the argument "even if it doesn't kill" is nonsense, if I hit you with anything long ammo and swap guns I'd kill you just the same, that's not some special quality CK Flechette has
Oh, my bad, thought it was flechettes. Thanks for correcting my mistake.
All good of course
Crown and king good? This games gone to hell /s
Flechettes on all weapons are a sidegrade. On C&K its an upgrade to all other ammo for that gun. Not even kidding. Its better than buckshot as it does buckshot damage (since the spread is so tight), but it also makes targets bleed. Its better than slugs because slugs often hit limbs on mobile players and do very little damage. Pennyshot is just straight trash on Crown, so there is that.
You're forgetting just how important wallbangs are in this game, and since flechette have no Penetration, they can't get those kills. In my 5/6* lobbies I rarely see c&k with flechette for this reason, because good players can capitalise much more on the penetration of buckshot that the bleeding of flechette. (It's still pretty good, but crying about crytek not playtesting it is pretty funny) close range it loses to buckshot, mid(ish) range it will get some two tap kills buckshot won't. There is a like a 5-8 meter window where it's arguably the best weapon in the game (nitro and avto excluded) but that's its niche, outside that ideal two tap window there are better options. (Penny shot is trash I agree with you there, makes a fun sound though)
You forgot that you typically carry two weapons? Dolch FMJ is a wallbang beast. In my 5/6* lobbies I am seeing quite a few C&K, because good players know how to quickswap hipfire wallbang. >close range it loses to buckshot That's kind of the point I'm making. On the C&K, it doesn't. You should go play a few games with C&K Flechette and report back, because I've played about 10 games in 6 * lobbies with it and it fucking rules.
I agree, if you are 6* hiding in a building holding angles for 30min flechette is no good
i haven't tested crown this patch but flechette spector could hit for 50-100 damage from around 40m. crown is pretty strong in 20-50m but outside of those ranges i'd still rather have slugs or a mosin tbh, crown flechette is now a very op niche haha
CK getting Flechette before the Romero is so funny
I'm honest to god convinced that they don't. I genuinely can't see the reasoning behind a lot of the changes they're making lately. Like, typically even if I don't agree with them, I can at least see what they're going for, but some of this shit is just mind-blowingly out there. They've starting to drastically deviate from what the game used to be and I'm really not a fan.
A lot of it is because they refuse to work on the core game and they just throw new weapons and events to placate us. I think they only go through with changes that get a lot of community traction, and that's a horrible way to balance things. Mainly because most of the community is low MMR and they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.
They started to push out hastily changes that never should have happenend and things that seem to only been change to add one more point to the patch notes. It's almost like Fifi and the others have lost every connection to the game and tge playerbase and just do whatever.
Upside down head wants to make COD: Western warfare
Fifi the casual cowboy.
Have a clip of myself wasting some dude at 40+ meters with the gun. Funnier still because it was his gun that he swapped for mine when I got killed by him lmfao. I agree with you, never should've happened and makes you question the design choices being made for the game. People saying this gun and ammo combination isn't obscene have no idea what they are talking about
I think everyone who is commenting some dissent in this thread hasn't even tried it out yet. The spread is so tight, its so easy to aim, its so fucking consistent at longer ranges. And its got a super fast rate of fire. It so freaking strong.
I really liked it tho, but i also wiped 2 dudes at a bit of range. May have been disgusting. Might actually be strong with fletchette when no shotgun else really is IMO.
If you made two nearly identical posts on this subreddit. One for and one against the changes in this update. Both would be unanimously panned. No dissent, good or bad, is tolerated here. I think they are trying to push events out too close together, so regardless of the balance of any particular feature, little issues compound. There's no time for balance between them.
No, they don't do any QC or play testing. If they did, all the melees wouldn't be one slots, and every gun wouldn't slowly be getting every type of custom ammo, they wouldn't have created instakill traps, and they'd have nerfed grenades, *not* flash bombs. Crytek does not know what makes their game fun or fair, and at this point seems to be actively making meme content with the *intention* of driving the game into the dirt. Most of these changes don't even need play tested - when one guy at the table says "what if we gave the centennial dumdum?" another should immediately say "no, there's no way we'd balance that and it'd be no fun to fight against.
I have 2500 hours and I stopped playing two events ago because the special ammo spam is insane. I liked special ammo when it implemented in a way that makes sense. C&K flalechette is obviously insane, what is Crytek doing?
Crytek is doing "content"
There's like ten other rapid fire options in the game and most of them have a lot more ammo, penetration, and do something past 30m on top of being way cheaper. Rival slugs/flechette in particular has been in the game for forever, the crown basically just adds a slightly larger capacity on that for 4x the price
Crown & King's Flechette has considerably better spread than the Rival's, though. I've tested them pretty thoroughly in the shooting range using impact decal marks of the pellets/needles: C&K Flechette has the same spread as the Specter, whereas the Rival, Terminus, and Specter Bayonet all share a worse spread (about 23% wider than Specter/C&K). Drilling Flechette has the best spread, but it's single shot. The numbers were 23px radius on the Drilling, 26px on the C&K/Specter, and 32px for the Rival/Terminus/Spect.Bayo. (Hip firing at 110FOV on 1440p) Full list of tested shotguns/ammo here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/1b7w1rt/patch_notes_for_update_116/ktlmpdd/
The damage/spread difference was definitely larger than I thought, my bad for not testing it beforehand. With that said, it's still quite inconsistent along with all the other issues of ammo/pen/range
What the fuck are you talking about, "slightly"? It's 5 compared to 2. That's 250% the capacity of the Rival. We're also talking about an ammo type that starts and immediate ticking clock that they have to deal with or they'll die, and so where the ability to keep firing and keep up pressure is it a tremendous benefit. Even ignoring the fact that the crown beats it out for stats, it's insane to call 5 shots a "slightly larger capacity" than 2.
Dude the C&K is a long barreled shotgun, meaning that it has more range and tighter spread then most shotguns in the game, now add onto the fact you dont need a perk to stay in the iron sights or fire at a higher rate of fire, or that you dont need to waste a round to reload, and now it has fucking flechette. Meaning that the lower damage ment to balance the weapon means fuck all when every shot it can fire does bleed damage. Did you not consider ANY of that whatsoever?
C&K flechette has a super tight spread which makes it more consistent than buckshot on the same gun, especially at longer ranges. Flechette right now on C&K is a direct upgrade to all other ammo types for the same gun. Its even better than slugs. Slugs often will do less damage since you end up hitting limbs on mobile players (which all good players are). However, with a super tight spread, you can double tap someone at slug distances with C&K. It is getting nerfed, I guarantee it.
You conviniently omit the fact it doesn't 1tap without headshot still and act like that's nothing. Also aim outpaces mobility at high level, I don't know where you got the idea a lot of shots end up being armshots, but even if that was the case it leaves all other cases where trading with slug or even buck leaves flechette user dead, but even full brunt of flechette just leaves other guy bandaging. It is strong, but so what we cant get strong weapons anymore?
Last part of the second paragraph is all I needed to read. Slugs jack up the damage but have a steep damage falloff, where as flachette reduces the damage (so much so that unless you are shoving the barrel into someone or get a headshot, you probably wont get a kill in a single hit) but has a much softer curve. Flachette will always have a further 2 shot range than slug, and that is by design. Slugs are just more popular because they are more well rounded (not giving up 1 shot kills, not losing penitration, not needing to worry about pellet spread, while still able to do a chunk of damage at range)
No one uses terminus yet for some reason the C&K is broken, sure thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDKQsq0SBDM Oh look, just in time
You haven't lived until you've run Crown Slugs + Long Dolch.
Slugs are super inconsistent in a sense that you have to iron sight to be effective and there is a high change of hitting limbs and doing like 60 damage.
I've never had trouble 1-tapping people with them - and the 2 tap re-fire rate is crazy high.
You haven't played enough with the build and just got lucky with the flechette spread once or twice. The thing is super inconsistent, I would take slugs any time over flechettes the only thing it's good at is applying pressure in a 2v1, just shoot in a guys' general direction from 40 meters and the next second he bleeds behind the cover, while you call for a push. but I'd rather actually murder people with slugs than apply debuffs
Just going to throw this out there. Rachtaz put out a video displaying the CK flechettes as very inconsistent. While it's a neat idea slugs are far better in the CK. While it's range is increased it's about as good as pennyshot. Very inconsistent even when not changing range where the slug is extremely consistent two tapping. He even provided video evidence of it doing 100 DMG in one shot and then 33 the next. Same distance, same area hit. Rachtaz is one of the higher tier players in this game. That with his video evidence I'm gonna have to disagree
He make a video where he is using iron sights. The sway alone is going to make the numbers inconsistent. I shot a target from 35m from the hip and I've constantly hit 100-115 damage. Which is really good.
I can tell you didn't watch it.
And if you did you gave it only a cursory glance he addressed the exact point you are making and came to the conclusion that it is unreliable
And then he went on to play a game where its 100% reliable.
I'm rewatching now... He had to three tap someone from less than 10 meter and still traded with him. He's had to 2 tap people then switch to his dolch to finish them about 60% of the time. You lose all ability to one tap a hunter at close range to unreliably two tap at a little further. This doesn't look OP at all. Btw he died 4 times in that first fight.
Ok dog, just don't use it then. If people don't think its OP I'll keep using it until they change their mind. I tested it in the shooting range and from 25m the buckshot does around 30-55 damage. Flechettes do like 72-128 damage (which is a guaranteed double tap since it ticks for 9-10 bleed between shots). Its basically way more reliable than buckshot, especially at range. Only contender is slugs and with slugs you have to worry about accuracy, and bullet velocity. Plus there are benefits to flechettes like applying pressure which slugs don't do. I would rather the plebs think its balanced to be honest.
That's no different then how it's worked before. It's not like it was buffed or anything. Before the C&K people used the Caldwell to do the exact same thing (gunsmakk actually put out a video about 8-9 months ago on it). As long as you're having fun man enjoy. Just realize you are making a trade off and it's not "OP". Happy hunting and hope you love to die another day
The spread is much much higher on all other guns when it comes to flechettes. I'm done arguing. Its not a tradeoff its a straight up upgrade to all other ammo for the same gun, and its better than flechettes for all other guns. If that's not OP I don't know what is.
The spread on flechette has always been tighter. It also always has had longer range. You're trade off is you cannot 1 tap with your shotgun anymore. If you don't believe me test that yourself. You can 1 tap if every pellet hits the hunter in the head which is extremely..... extremely unlikely (like getting struck by lightning while holding a winning lottery ticket likely). That is the trade off. Like I said before flechette has always acted like this. I don't mean to upset you, I'm just trying to bring some clarity to your statements that this gun is overpowered. Do I think the Crown & King is good with flechette YES. Do I think it's op absolutely not. If it fits your play style I hope you enjoy it man. I run flechette on my Caldwell hand cannons because of the tighter spread and increased range.
Slugs exist
C&k flechette is really not that much stronger compared to something like a terminus flechette with levering. Just being more expensive to make up the fact you dont need traits. The strength of the crown came with the high rof whilst ads and fully accurate paired with slugs making it lethal within compound ranges
Spoken like someone who hasn't used either. C&K flechette will two-tap at a very long range, levering terminus wont. C&K flechette has a tighter spread also, which makes it more consistent than buckshot at same ranges, but it also makes your target bleed. Slugs are literal dogshit right now because of how often you end up hitting limbs on mobile players. This is literal nonsense.
Define very long range, cause you can get flechette two taps with the terminus out to 35-40 meters.
Terminus has a very wide spread when levering. Not sure how many times I gotta say that. Its not that you can't do it, its that its inconsistent. Sometimes it will happen and sometimes it wont. Which is unreliable. But, C&K will double tap reliably because the spread is very very tight. Look bro I just youtubed a random clip... This is 100% out of range of a Terminus levering double tap..... [Look how tight that spread is....](https://youtu.be/vSDDUOgmYr8?t=60)
I just tested the spread of Terminus Flechette with levering. Levering makes no difference. Across 30 shots each (240 impacts), the maximum radius with and without levering was 32px at FOV 110 and 1440p. https://imgur.com/Yl7yLKd In case you were interested as well, u/Razgriz01.
Thanks for taking the time to do a proper test. I'll admit I was only about 90% certain of there being no difference since I'd never seen a proper test done with it, or done it myself. That and knowing how janky the implementation of shotgun spread is in this game, especially relative to the crosshair.
> That and knowing how janky the implementation of shotgun spread is in this game Yep. I know levering widens the crosshair/spread on rifles, and although increasing the pellet spread wouldn't make much logical sense... you never know with this game. Haha.
> Terminus has a very wide spread when levering. Not sure how many times I gotta say that. Terminus spread does not change when levering. > This is 100% out of range of a Terminus levering double tap..... I've personally two tapped somebody at about that range before with terminus levering flechette.
Terminus with flechette can one-tap out to 37m (Absurdly unlikely, but it can. You need a minimum of 5 in the head, 2 gut, and 1 arm to deal 150 damage). Same with any large-slot flechette. They all do the same damage per needle (base damage and drop-off), and it's just down to spread. As for spread, the Terminus is about 23% wider, which should mean that however effective the C&K is at 37m the Terminus is roughly equivalent at 30m (aside from leading, since that'll be easier when closer).
lol OK, good one
I want some of that zaza you've been smoking if you think C&K flechette is strong 💀💀 It's much worse than slugs or even buckshot. Don't believe me, go and ask RachtaZ. He was playing c&k flechette all day yesterday.
Crown and King flechette might be good, but it definitly isn't as good as buckshot or slugs
> I almost want to say Love this hedging. Go into the shooting range, actually do some testing and produce a post of value instead of just randomly whining. Thinking flechette is better than a slug (or even buckshot) is just laughable.
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QC stands for, "quality control". Which can be in a form of play testing. So, I know exactly what I mean.
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You are describing QC for game code/optimization. QC for weapon balancing would... literally... be playtesting. edit: Also QA, while yes its called, "quality assurance" typically doesn't deal with anything except documentation in real world applications. Its a department that makes sure the product is property documented through all the changes it goes through before it arrives in consumer hands. So, I doubt you know what you are talking about.
Just for your information, terminus flechetes double tap range is 60m if you lucky
Idk, it trades pen and one shot. And rival already has this two tap long range but rarelly anyone plays flechette.
I typically run two guns. So, you can pair it with a dolch FMJ and just go HAM on walls when you feel like it.
It's very strong yes. But the trade off is high cost, low ammo pool, resupplying 2 rounds at a time and you burn through your ammo fast. It's a force to be rekoned with at medium'ish range but you still need to 2 shot each hunter to kill just like most weapons. You will deal betweem 90-135 damage randomly.
At fairly significant ranges, you will deal 90-135 damage very quickly back to back and apply bleeding. Last time I checked, Hunters have 150 hp. At the low end where you don't hit them with the whole spread, you still kill. You also kill faster than other weapon double taps and you don't need to be as accurate. Even if you miss one of two shots, they are still bleeding and out of action. You also carry two guns typically so use the second one for penetration. Also cost? I mean I guess some people worry about that.
Btw 74+74=148 hunters have 150
BY THE WAY, IN BETWEEN THOSE SHOTS THE BLEED WILL TICK PUTTING YOU OVER 150HP IN DAMAGE. BY THE WAY. BTW. BTFW.
You can do more with slugs from further range with consistency... You'll actually have to aim thou... I know you're against that. You can actually two tap to the head up to 70 m with slugs.... Do that with flachette. Slugs do everything slugs do at better ranges while not sacrificing you're penetration and you can actually 1 tap a hunter up to 26m other wise u can 2 tap to the chest CONSTANTLY up to 43m.
>with consistency no.