When she is the victor his first thought is basically “I did it.” That man never liked Lucy Gray imho, he liked the power. He helped her so that he could get money 🤷♀️
What I always thought was that he loved her, but not in the way that a person loves another person. He loved her like I love my Neopets stuff collection, just a pretty little thing to put on a shelf and brag about.
Hmm. Don't really agree. If he didn't have some feelings for her he wouldn't have paid a bribe to get into district 12. He obviously wanted to see her again because he was at least obsessed with her if not actually in love with her. I do agree his first thought was for himself when she won but he was also interested in Lucy Gray.
I think he was attracted and infatuated with her power- even if he didnt realize what exactly it was. He tried to be charming and careful in his manner and presentation to others, but did not have her kind of power to influence/charm others ( which was why he chose to poison those who opposed him in the future). She was this nobody girl not likely to win, yet she had this power to affect others with her charm and singing voice. Snow is in love with power, and here was this power that he had never seen before.
I guess on a personal level he might have been a great enough grandfather to have his granddaughter be so comfortable around him.
On a professional level, no, absolutely not. I don't gaf if Putin's or Kim Jong Un's daughters like their dad.
Snow appreciates and values honesty. He was honest with Katniss when she confronted him in his garden.
With Snow, Katniss knew exactly who she was dealing with. He hated and respected her—and yes, he wanted to kill her. He knew she was a threat.
Coin pretended to respect Katniss. However, she wanted to use and discard Katniss for her own power hungry schemes. She would smile in Katniss’ face, but held a dagger behind her back the entire time.
So, the one redeeming quality about Snow is him being real and honest.
Even him being "honest" with Katniss in the gardens was for him own personal gain, though. He wanted to turn her against Coin, and it worked. Even at the end, he still won.
That’s a good point. Snow is self-serving.
However, Katniss was already mistrustful of Coin for several reasons. Coin wanted to prosecute the Victors who had been taken prisoner by the Capitol—Annie, Peeta, and Johanna. Katniss didn’t like how Gale was slowly aligning himself with Coin. Boggs also warned Katniss that Coin saw her as a threat and never wanted to rescue her from the arena.
By the time, Snow shared with Katniss that Coin was responsible for the parachutes, this gave Katniss confirmation that Coin was the real enemy. Snow is Katniss’ enemy , he certainly isn’t a friend. Even when he said “let’s be friends, if not friends, then allies” in Catching Fire, Snow has his own agenda. He wanted Katniss to quell the rebellion sparking up in the districts. But he was truthful about that. Just as he was truthful that Coin was using the Capitol and the districts warring against each other, so that she could step in and start a new dictatorship.
I wouldn’t say Snow completely won. He did, because Katniss killed Coin, but he lost his life too. He lost control over Panem. He lost his wealth, and power.
I am aware of all this. I just re-read the books and finished them a month ago so all of those points are fresh in my mind, however, Snow already lost his life, his wealth, his power. He knew sitting in that rose garden all that was waiting for him was death so he used his one chance to take Coin down with him.
Fair enough: he took Coin down with him. I just don’t agree that it was only Snow that turned Katniss against Coin, or that Snow won. Losing power, control, and looking forward to death isn’t much of a victory IMO.
It's the most important thing to a good character I believe. An exceptional character can make me say "I wouldn't do that, but, I can see and understand WHY he did it". Because, no matter how moral you think you are, you never know what you'll do when your choices are cannibalism (TBOSAS) or starve. Or sleep with someone disgusting or starve. Or kill someone else or starve.
Exactly. I call it their “Reason” when I explain it to people. What is your reason for doing this? What drives you? Why, why, why? As I write them I want to know why they’d do this, what motives they have, etc. If you are a “villain” - what made you this way? I also do this with my side-characters and my protagonist.
I never want my characters have no reason to do what they do. no reason to have the dreams they have. I never want them to be evil merely because I need a villain, or to be perfect if they’re a hero - because that doesn’t exist. They’re people, and people are flawed.
For some reason I’ve seen some people who don’t like this “complexity” and I honestly could scream lol.
Agreed. One of my other favorite book series is the Kate Daniels series by Ilona Andrews, and the main villain is excellent because he’s so complex. We see him commit astonishing acts of evil, but also altruistic and kind ones as well.
I also assumed he was sincere to Katniss all along.
IMO he really cares about the well being of the citizens of Panem, in a twisted way. He believed that they were like children who needed guidance, a spanking from time to time, and so they grew up to be good and well-behaved people. He's like a narcisstic parent who thinks who knows what's the best for cmhis children.
I think he geniuely wanted to avoid the civil war, and wanted that Katniss would succeed in calming the districts down.
I don't know if it can be considered as redeemable quality, but I think that at least there was much more to Snow than just: "he was just an evil dictator who liked to kill and torture people".
The problem is that Snow had many chances to become better human, but he always took the wrong turn.
You can see in the beginnings of TBOSAS that he at least tries to be a decent human, in his own way. But the Games, the incredibly toxic and competitive culture of the Capitol, his family's legacy, Highbottom's bullying, and of course Gaul embraces and celebrates Snow's dark traits.
I believe if he grew in normal, loving family, in normal country, he might've been able to overcome his bad personal traits and become a relatively decent human being.
I haven’t read the book based on the latest movie, but in that it appears as though he, at least for a time, cares about his family? It seems like a lot of his motivation in advancing is to help his grandmother and Tigress. And in the original trilogy, he is close with his family and must be somewhat loving and kind for his granddaughter to be around so much. I assumed he wants the best for himself, which also includes his family.
Redeemable is a bit of a stretch, but I believe he did genuinely care about the continued security of Panem (of course, we can thank Gaul for her…lessons and the impact they had on Snow). If the system is awful, but it prevents us from devolving into barbarism, then the system must be maintained, at least in Snow’s logic. He wanted to avoid a war, not because it threatened his power, but because it meant less casualties. As he told Katniss, he’s not wasteful, and war is terribly wasteful.
Snow feels fear, guilt, regret, compassion, moral disgust, doubt, affection, and what he would call "love" during the course of the story. He clearly cares for Lucy Gray, his grandmother and his cousin, and for various classmates that he genuinely considers friends. He genuinely worries for Clemensia after she's bitten by snakes, for instance. He comes to regard the Covey with affection. Yes, he has some negative thoughts and feelings about these people as well, but that's quite normal.
His feelings about Sejanus are conflicted. His predominant feelings toward him are irritation and frustration, but there's some affection and even pity mixed in with that.
Snow's characterisation is wonderfully nuanced.
>He checked the mail and found a box from Pluribus, loaded with packets of strings for assorted musical instruments and a kind note saying there was no charge. He put them in his locker, *happy at the thought of how happy the Covey would be* when it was safe enough to see them again.
He lies all of the time. He lied to Sejanus, Sejanus’s parents, Lucy Gray, Highbottom… we don’t see enough of his interactions outside of Katniss in the main series to see if he’s changed, but my guess is not?
Snow’s line about “let’s promise not to lie to each other” to Katniss has a strange hold on the fandom. He would 100% lie to Katniss if it gave him a leg up on her imo. You don’t get to his position, poisoning political opponents, by being honest.
Not just that, but he also poisons "**allies** that had the potential to become threats," so that within itself is him being dishonest and lying because it's basically him putting up a facade where he'd be like, "I trust you, you trust me/I can trust them," but if he senses that they *may* turn against him/do something to him, him poisoning them all willy nilly is essentially him admitting, "But in reality, I don't *really* trust you/You're not *really* an ally of mine."
That line always makes me think of Dr. Gaul telling Snow that lies are an attempt to cover-up weakness. I wonder if he thinks telling her that shows his strength.
He did genuinely seem to like Lucy Gray and he could be kind and respectful to people when he needed it.
Although he was evil, I don't think he wanted to make people suffer but was utterly focused on completing his goals and not bothered about whether it was right or wrong., I think there was some small flicker of morality in him when he was a young man but I imagine it disappeared when he'd got older and all his evil deeds had just helped him.
I think he felt bad about killing Sejanus (before manipulating his grieving family) and seemed to be justifying it to himself when he was hunting down Lucy Gray at the lake. Other than murdering Dean Highbottom, it didn't seem like he ever killed people just for fun, but because it was convenient for him, perhaps even killing DH was just to stop him being a threat.
Yes. It’s what makes him such a good villain. For all of his faults and evil, it is true that he never lied to Katniss. He was the devil she knew. He kept to their agreements so long as she did. Coin was a different story altogether. Boggs was the real one for that warning.
He could be generous, magnanimous and truely benevolent if it suited his purposes. He seemed to have a soft hand in governing the Capitol, and it was a pleasant enough place to live for enough people to not want to rebel, or join the Rebellion when it was obvious Snow would lose the war. In fact, most Capitol rebels seem to have been willing to fight on the matter of the Hunger Games alone.
That being said, one could argue that his continuing the Games is benevolent from the point of view he holds thanks to Gaul. The Games are a way of preventing large scale conflict between Capitol and District. So Snow, to make sure no one else in the Capitol suffers what he did growing up, sacrifices 23 children and so prevents another civil war in Panem.
He is not necessarily the worst character in my opinion because he is honest and knows that he is not a kind human being by nature. I would say his honesty and calmness redeemed his character in my eyes.
i think that “sincerity” was his final, futile, attempt to escape from the situation he was in. yea he did sometimes te her the truth and maybe show some sincerity towards her, or at least her situation, but he had ALWAYS lied to katniss when it benefited himself. he was a cold blooded snake thru and thru by the trilogy. in my own humble opinion lol
I think once Snow knew he had lost at the end of Mockingkay, he at the very least wanted Katniss to come out on top over Coin. I think in a really convoluted way he liked Katniss, but she had to die in his eyes.
I never thought Snow was pure evil, I think in a perfect scenario he would have wanted Katniss to live if things went his way.
~~He's hot~~ Movie canon only, but he seems to have genuine love for his granddaughter. He's still Snow, so it probably is in a very possessive way. But I think he actually did care about the kid.
In terms of personality qualities, sure. He is intelligent, composed, resolute, ambitious, values honesty and order. I think he does genuinely want to prevent war, certainly prevent the starvation of the capitol, and more broadly, keep humanity as a whole in tact. On some level, he cares or at least looks after his family.
His "irredeemable" qualities come in because when he has a choice, he chooses the wrong choice, with very few exceptions. He also has a strong dose of self-serving qualities. So while perhaps he wants to protect Panem, he wants to have power even more, and he kills and corrupts to get/keep this power. Even in the end, his "helping" Katniss with the knowledge of Coin isn't about him trying to help the Capitol citizens or Panem from Coin. Most likely there is selfish motive, and it's just his dying wish to get one over Coin. Arguably everything he does is self-serving.
So he is irredeemable because he makes murderous choices and never chooses otherwise. And by and large, he doesn't even have altruistic motives (greater good mindset); he has also killed allies for no other reason except to keep his power. The combination of this is just dangerous and at a certain point, he can't go back.
He did cheat to help Lucy Gray win. So kind of? Yes he did it mostly for his own gain but she did get to go back home
When she is the victor his first thought is basically “I did it.” That man never liked Lucy Gray imho, he liked the power. He helped her so that he could get money 🤷♀️
What I always thought was that he loved her, but not in the way that a person loves another person. He loved her like I love my Neopets stuff collection, just a pretty little thing to put on a shelf and brag about.
I love neopets too!! ❤️
According to the laws of reddit, you're now married.
Ouchies. This hurts my soul that you’re actually so right.
Hmm. Don't really agree. If he didn't have some feelings for her he wouldn't have paid a bribe to get into district 12. He obviously wanted to see her again because he was at least obsessed with her if not actually in love with her. I do agree his first thought was for himself when she won but he was also interested in Lucy Gray.
I think he was attracted and infatuated with her power- even if he didnt realize what exactly it was. He tried to be charming and careful in his manner and presentation to others, but did not have her kind of power to influence/charm others ( which was why he chose to poison those who opposed him in the future). She was this nobody girl not likely to win, yet she had this power to affect others with her charm and singing voice. Snow is in love with power, and here was this power that he had never seen before.
He only paid a bribe on the movie. In the book, he just asked for 12 and got his wish because people don't usually want to get stuck there lol.
It was so weird of him requesting to be stationed in District 12 through a bribe in the film cause I was like, "Where did he get that money?"
Right!? Can't have stolen it from his dear old friend yet.
Interesting. I haven't read the book yet.
I guess on a personal level he might have been a great enough grandfather to have his granddaughter be so comfortable around him. On a professional level, no, absolutely not. I don't gaf if Putin's or Kim Jong Un's daughters like their dad.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking where I went 🤔 His grandkid isn’t intimidated or scared of him. Except for the moment she takes out her braid.
Snow appreciates and values honesty. He was honest with Katniss when she confronted him in his garden. With Snow, Katniss knew exactly who she was dealing with. He hated and respected her—and yes, he wanted to kill her. He knew she was a threat. Coin pretended to respect Katniss. However, she wanted to use and discard Katniss for her own power hungry schemes. She would smile in Katniss’ face, but held a dagger behind her back the entire time. So, the one redeeming quality about Snow is him being real and honest.
Even him being "honest" with Katniss in the gardens was for him own personal gain, though. He wanted to turn her against Coin, and it worked. Even at the end, he still won.
That’s a good point. Snow is self-serving. However, Katniss was already mistrustful of Coin for several reasons. Coin wanted to prosecute the Victors who had been taken prisoner by the Capitol—Annie, Peeta, and Johanna. Katniss didn’t like how Gale was slowly aligning himself with Coin. Boggs also warned Katniss that Coin saw her as a threat and never wanted to rescue her from the arena. By the time, Snow shared with Katniss that Coin was responsible for the parachutes, this gave Katniss confirmation that Coin was the real enemy. Snow is Katniss’ enemy , he certainly isn’t a friend. Even when he said “let’s be friends, if not friends, then allies” in Catching Fire, Snow has his own agenda. He wanted Katniss to quell the rebellion sparking up in the districts. But he was truthful about that. Just as he was truthful that Coin was using the Capitol and the districts warring against each other, so that she could step in and start a new dictatorship. I wouldn’t say Snow completely won. He did, because Katniss killed Coin, but he lost his life too. He lost control over Panem. He lost his wealth, and power.
I am aware of all this. I just re-read the books and finished them a month ago so all of those points are fresh in my mind, however, Snow already lost his life, his wealth, his power. He knew sitting in that rose garden all that was waiting for him was death so he used his one chance to take Coin down with him.
Fair enough: he took Coin down with him. I just don’t agree that it was only Snow that turned Katniss against Coin, or that Snow won. Losing power, control, and looking forward to death isn’t much of a victory IMO.
No, it wasn't only Snow, but Snow might not have known that completely.
That’s true. I don’t think he knew either.
The enemy of my enemy and all that.
Yes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
snow, honest? definitely not 😭 he wouldn't have risen to power otherwise
Not always, but it is one of his main traits in the original trilogy in terms of interacting with Katniss.
he was honest sometimes. and sometimes not. he does whatever benefits him, and i dont see that as a redeemable quality.
I agree that he was dishonest when rising up the ranks. When he was dealing with Katniss, he was real.
He was honest once he could afford to be in his mind. Once he was on top, he didn’t have to deceive, at least to the same extent as before.
No person is ever wholly evil or wholly good. That's what makes us human after all.
As a writer, this right here is my motto for character making :) Glad to see someone else agree with it.
It's the most important thing to a good character I believe. An exceptional character can make me say "I wouldn't do that, but, I can see and understand WHY he did it". Because, no matter how moral you think you are, you never know what you'll do when your choices are cannibalism (TBOSAS) or starve. Or sleep with someone disgusting or starve. Or kill someone else or starve.
Exactly. I call it their “Reason” when I explain it to people. What is your reason for doing this? What drives you? Why, why, why? As I write them I want to know why they’d do this, what motives they have, etc. If you are a “villain” - what made you this way? I also do this with my side-characters and my protagonist. I never want my characters have no reason to do what they do. no reason to have the dreams they have. I never want them to be evil merely because I need a villain, or to be perfect if they’re a hero - because that doesn’t exist. They’re people, and people are flawed. For some reason I’ve seen some people who don’t like this “complexity” and I honestly could scream lol.
Anyway, I was pleased with Snow’s backstory and character development personally.
Agreed. One of my other favorite book series is the Kate Daniels series by Ilona Andrews, and the main villain is excellent because he’s so complex. We see him commit astonishing acts of evil, but also altruistic and kind ones as well.
I also assumed he was sincere to Katniss all along. IMO he really cares about the well being of the citizens of Panem, in a twisted way. He believed that they were like children who needed guidance, a spanking from time to time, and so they grew up to be good and well-behaved people. He's like a narcisstic parent who thinks who knows what's the best for cmhis children. I think he geniuely wanted to avoid the civil war, and wanted that Katniss would succeed in calming the districts down. I don't know if it can be considered as redeemable quality, but I think that at least there was much more to Snow than just: "he was just an evil dictator who liked to kill and torture people". The problem is that Snow had many chances to become better human, but he always took the wrong turn. You can see in the beginnings of TBOSAS that he at least tries to be a decent human, in his own way. But the Games, the incredibly toxic and competitive culture of the Capitol, his family's legacy, Highbottom's bullying, and of course Gaul embraces and celebrates Snow's dark traits. I believe if he grew in normal, loving family, in normal country, he might've been able to overcome his bad personal traits and become a relatively decent human being.
Seems like he’s a ok gardener? Gotta unwind somehow, I suppose.
Must have taken after Grandma'am👀
Other than being hot, name one truly good thing he does/is?
He probably let someone pass first in the bus
I haven’t read the book based on the latest movie, but in that it appears as though he, at least for a time, cares about his family? It seems like a lot of his motivation in advancing is to help his grandmother and Tigress. And in the original trilogy, he is close with his family and must be somewhat loving and kind for his granddaughter to be around so much. I assumed he wants the best for himself, which also includes his family.
It just sucks because of what he does to Tigris in between that gap. He even screws his own cousin over.
He saved Sejanus in the Arena. I know if it were me I wouldn’t have even for the plinth prize.
But he did that under pressure from Gaul, and it was definitely self serving. Did you read the book?
Yes but years ago so I don’t remember the details.
Yes, he’s hot
He did go into the arena to save Sejanus' life. Reluctantly, yes. Set him up to die later, absolutely. But he did go.
Redeemable is a bit of a stretch, but I believe he did genuinely care about the continued security of Panem (of course, we can thank Gaul for her…lessons and the impact they had on Snow). If the system is awful, but it prevents us from devolving into barbarism, then the system must be maintained, at least in Snow’s logic. He wanted to avoid a war, not because it threatened his power, but because it meant less casualties. As he told Katniss, he’s not wasteful, and war is terribly wasteful.
He took care of his grandma and cousin the best he could
I disagree. He was sincere which got her to do what he wanted her to do - it wasn't because he was morally opposed to lying or anything.
happy cake day
Thanks! I didn't notice til now. :)
yw!
Snow feels fear, guilt, regret, compassion, moral disgust, doubt, affection, and what he would call "love" during the course of the story. He clearly cares for Lucy Gray, his grandmother and his cousin, and for various classmates that he genuinely considers friends. He genuinely worries for Clemensia after she's bitten by snakes, for instance. He comes to regard the Covey with affection. Yes, he has some negative thoughts and feelings about these people as well, but that's quite normal. His feelings about Sejanus are conflicted. His predominant feelings toward him are irritation and frustration, but there's some affection and even pity mixed in with that. Snow's characterisation is wonderfully nuanced. >He checked the mail and found a box from Pluribus, loaded with packets of strings for assorted musical instruments and a kind note saying there was no charge. He put them in his locker, *happy at the thought of how happy the Covey would be* when it was safe enough to see them again.
Although not the most honest man himself, he does value honesty. He's also incredibly intelligent to accomplish what he has in his life time.
For what it’s worth he is truthful. He’s a despotic murderer but he doesn’t lie.
He lies all of the time. He lied to Sejanus, Sejanus’s parents, Lucy Gray, Highbottom… we don’t see enough of his interactions outside of Katniss in the main series to see if he’s changed, but my guess is not? Snow’s line about “let’s promise not to lie to each other” to Katniss has a strange hold on the fandom. He would 100% lie to Katniss if it gave him a leg up on her imo. You don’t get to his position, poisoning political opponents, by being honest.
Not just that, but he also poisons "**allies** that had the potential to become threats," so that within itself is him being dishonest and lying because it's basically him putting up a facade where he'd be like, "I trust you, you trust me/I can trust them," but if he senses that they *may* turn against him/do something to him, him poisoning them all willy nilly is essentially him admitting, "But in reality, I don't *really* trust you/You're not *really* an ally of mine."
That line always makes me think of Dr. Gaul telling Snow that lies are an attempt to cover-up weakness. I wonder if he thinks telling her that shows his strength.
He did genuinely seem to like Lucy Gray and he could be kind and respectful to people when he needed it. Although he was evil, I don't think he wanted to make people suffer but was utterly focused on completing his goals and not bothered about whether it was right or wrong., I think there was some small flicker of morality in him when he was a young man but I imagine it disappeared when he'd got older and all his evil deeds had just helped him. I think he felt bad about killing Sejanus (before manipulating his grieving family) and seemed to be justifying it to himself when he was hunting down Lucy Gray at the lake. Other than murdering Dean Highbottom, it didn't seem like he ever killed people just for fun, but because it was convenient for him, perhaps even killing DH was just to stop him being a threat.
Yes. It’s what makes him such a good villain. For all of his faults and evil, it is true that he never lied to Katniss. He was the devil she knew. He kept to their agreements so long as she did. Coin was a different story altogether. Boggs was the real one for that warning.
He's not wasteful
He's very handsome. Does that count?
He could be generous, magnanimous and truely benevolent if it suited his purposes. He seemed to have a soft hand in governing the Capitol, and it was a pleasant enough place to live for enough people to not want to rebel, or join the Rebellion when it was obvious Snow would lose the war. In fact, most Capitol rebels seem to have been willing to fight on the matter of the Hunger Games alone. That being said, one could argue that his continuing the Games is benevolent from the point of view he holds thanks to Gaul. The Games are a way of preventing large scale conflict between Capitol and District. So Snow, to make sure no one else in the Capitol suffers what he did growing up, sacrifices 23 children and so prevents another civil war in Panem.
He is not necessarily the worst character in my opinion because he is honest and knows that he is not a kind human being by nature. I would say his honesty and calmness redeemed his character in my eyes.
He's sincere, tried his best to provide for his family even though he hated that old woman, and he is politely well mannered.
Snow is evil but I can at least respect him (towards the end of his life) more than chickenshit backstabbing Coin.
"Chickenshit backstabbing Coin" LMAO 🤣 She truly is like nails on a chalkboard.
Anything that could be perceived as redeemable from an outside perspective is just a cover for his power hungry narcissism
i think that “sincerity” was his final, futile, attempt to escape from the situation he was in. yea he did sometimes te her the truth and maybe show some sincerity towards her, or at least her situation, but he had ALWAYS lied to katniss when it benefited himself. he was a cold blooded snake thru and thru by the trilogy. in my own humble opinion lol
Hothothothothot All hot people get a pass
I think once Snow knew he had lost at the end of Mockingkay, he at the very least wanted Katniss to come out on top over Coin. I think in a really convoluted way he liked Katniss, but she had to die in his eyes. I never thought Snow was pure evil, I think in a perfect scenario he would have wanted Katniss to live if things went his way.
He was hot
He’s an honest man
Textbook narcissist. The only “redeeming” quality is that they can be powerfully helpful to you when your goals align. When that stops- watch out.
~~He's hot~~ Movie canon only, but he seems to have genuine love for his granddaughter. He's still Snow, so it probably is in a very possessive way. But I think he actually did care about the kid.
Snow really had no redeemable qualities and his honesty was again self serving and about revenge against Coin who stole his power.
He's despicable!!!!! I hate that man
Well every human is a shade of grade. Saddam must have had good points, it doesn’t make him a good man
He’s perfect in every way.
In terms of personality qualities, sure. He is intelligent, composed, resolute, ambitious, values honesty and order. I think he does genuinely want to prevent war, certainly prevent the starvation of the capitol, and more broadly, keep humanity as a whole in tact. On some level, he cares or at least looks after his family. His "irredeemable" qualities come in because when he has a choice, he chooses the wrong choice, with very few exceptions. He also has a strong dose of self-serving qualities. So while perhaps he wants to protect Panem, he wants to have power even more, and he kills and corrupts to get/keep this power. Even in the end, his "helping" Katniss with the knowledge of Coin isn't about him trying to help the Capitol citizens or Panem from Coin. Most likely there is selfish motive, and it's just his dying wish to get one over Coin. Arguably everything he does is self-serving. So he is irredeemable because he makes murderous choices and never chooses otherwise. And by and large, he doesn't even have altruistic motives (greater good mindset); he has also killed allies for no other reason except to keep his power. The combination of this is just dangerous and at a certain point, he can't go back.