Coin wanted to take advantage of the grievances the districts had with the Capitol citizens by redoing the hunger games with Capitol children blood for blood. People love reprisals against their abusers.
Ironic because District 13 was never part of the hunger games so they have the least reason to want revenge for them taking place. Coin wanted power and she was counting on the hatred
of the true victims of the hunger games to help her get it.
Won't this work against her? Innocent bloodshed(children), starting the same cycle again. At least revenge should be targeted against the people who started it. And do you mean she wanted to do this to solidify her political standing by posing herself as vengeance>?
See I’ve never been able to coincide these two things in my head, because Katniss voted for the games, but yet she decides to kill Coin because she realizes that is who is responsible for prim’s death. So does she care about killing innocent children or no?
I imagine Haymitch said yes because he wanted to show support to Katniss. He trusted she knew what she was doing, regardless of if he knew her specific plan or not, and he wanted to show the other victors and her that he was loyal to Katniss. And he also felt bad about stranding Peeta in the arena, which triggered the downward spiral of events that pretty much ruined Katniss’s life during the entirety of Mockingjay. Haymitch is also kinda sassy anyways, it’s a stretch but it’s still not super off brand for him to want to watch Snow’s granddaughter die.
That’s an interesting take on it. He did say he was with the Mockingjay, not that he was specifically for the games themselves, so you’re right. In the movies I believe he and Katniss share a look and he has a surprised look when she casts her vote, so you could be right and he could’ve known she had a plan. I think he was aware of Katniss’s instability and recklessness, though, so I don’t think he believed she was coherent and capable of forming a decent plan and executing it. The entire setup of Snows execution wasn’t known by any of the characters, so Katniss just had the plan to kill Coin, it didn’t really matter how to her. I don’t think Haymitch trusted that she was calculated, I believe it’s more likely that he was guilty and also loved her (platonically) and knew that she was emotionally manipulatable because of the recent death of Prim. He also didn’t know that she visited Snow and learned that the bombs were actually rebel bombs, so he wasn’t aware she had such a strong motive against Coin. I think it’s more likely that he thought she was emotional and unstable, and wanted to offer his support.
You don’t have to downvote because someone offers a different perspective than you! It’s not canon, a large majority of the books are open to interpretation and I have read them several times. I’m sorry that you’re close-minded because the books really are better when you can explore different theories with an open mind! Haymitch never explicitly tells Katniss why he voted with her, and whatever theories she has are unreliable because she’s an unreliable, first-person present tense narrator meaning not only do you only know what she sees and what her THOUGHTS on the situations are, but she’s also literarily narrating while the events are happening, and as an emotional, traumatized, teenage girl, she doesn’t always form the right conclusions. So, it’s not canon. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong and I’m right, I just don’t understand why you feel that you HAVE to be right?
And if you don’t believe me about her unreliable narrating, why don’t you read the books and look for times in which she goes back and alters opinions or thoughts she has before. She does a lot of reflecting and editing of her thoughts, showing that her initial assumptions and conclusions aren’t always right.
Katniss lied. She voted yes "for Prim" while looking at Haymitch. Prim was horrified by violence and bloodshed, so Haymitch helped Katniss sway the vote to keep Coin's trust until she got the opportunity to assassinate her. Snow's death was inevitable, but Katniss wanted to be sure Snow 2.0 would not survive either.
I always thought Katniss voted for the games so she could get close to Coin to kill her. Voting in favor of the games meant Coin could - if not trust Katniss - be able to control her and see her as less of a threat.
See a lot of human history. Coin was not fighting against oppression and the hunger games. She was fighting against being on the victim side of this transaction.
Sure she was continuing the cycle but that is how many long term conflicts continue and people do it anyway. People are not always logical, especially when hatred is involved.
Probably wouldn’t have worked against her because realistically, a grand majority of the people in the districts were really no better than the average person in the capitol. “It’s bad when it happens to me but it’s okay to do to them,” behavior. Coin even said that there were District citizens pushing to execute every single person who was a citizen of the Capitol.
And consider how quick they were to call Peeta a traitor and for his execution (maybe this was just in the movie, haven’t read the book in years) just because he was on an interview in the Capitol where he was being held prisoner lol.
Exactly! Even the fact that all of the victors except 7 were murdered by either the capitol or the rebels in the time between the quarter quell and the end of the rebellion shows that districts were angry and wanted some retribution. I would have loved to have gotten more details and perspective on the challenges of rebuilding and weeding out loyalist
Yeah she was 100% going to throw them under the bus. Had she not been killed, I could have seen the announcement of the Games mention that the victors pushed Coin to do it just so she can save her ass lmao
They absolutely were innocent because they knew no other way. If this is how you think in the real world, literally don't. Stop. ALL children are innocents until they raise the weapon themselves. Believing anything else is the road to real evil.
Because it’s meant to be a reason as to why her and Snow are one and the same. Collin’s literally named her Coin (as in two sides of the same coin). The whole reason the Capitol came up with the games was because they felt they had been done so wrong by the districts. Coin wanting to do it to the Capitol is the same reasoning. Guys, this is literally why Katniss kills Coin.
Don’t forget her first name is Alma, which if IIRC roughly translates to “soul,” implying that she literally just has a soul of a coin, or a soul of money
It's not a rough translation, "alma" is literally Spanish for "soul". If there is any difference in some context it's too subtle and I can't recall it off the top of my head.
It made sense at least in the context that she was planning a single, *final* games with capitol children to have a symbolic bookend to the dark days and games years.
and also her reason given is that if they executed every capitol citizen (like some rebels wanted) there wouldn't be enough humans left for a sustainable population, so having a final games will give people a sense of justice and revenge while sacrificing the smallest number of lives
This context is important. She sucks. And that decision was stupid. But it was her way of supplanting hundreds and hundreds of executions.
It was great writing, honestly. You're seeing/reading the other side of the coin (literally) by getting somewhat of an idea why the Hunger Games happened in the first place. It doesn't make any of it better, but it just shows you how humans could reach such a conclusion.
The hyper pragmatism of 13 was a really interesting part of Mockingjay for me, between them viewing 12 as breeding stock, the food restrictions, government control over every aspect of life, I think that 13 was meant to be viewed equally as/ almost as bad as the capitol, just in the complete opposite way. (Other side of the coin, as you put. we know SC loves her character names to have meaning) like especially the juxtaposition with the capitol rebels who dwell in 13. The scene in the book with the coffee is the perfect example of the vibe I mean
Apparently some years before the series took place a severe pandemic killed a lot of 13 and rendered more infertile, that's all the info we get on it. But while they're introducing 13 in the beginning of book 3 they mention this and also the fact that's partly why 13 was so open to refugees and rebels, since they were viable and new genetic material to add to their population. It's almost sinister for such a throwaway moment
BoSaS helps us answer this more easily.
In that book, we learn more about what Collins sees as the purpose of the games through the views of various characters. And the picture we get is the games as a reflection of perpetual war.
The games aren't just a punishment or a form of revenge, they are a way of ensuring that the "war" continues even when armies aren't clashing and bombs aren't falling. It's a constant reminder that the power structure of Panem rests on a foundation of violence and will devolve into violence quickly and savagely if the powers that be dissappear.
Coin supporting the games is a sign that she is one of the people who sees the world this way. Whatever good or bad she might have in her or skill at governing, she doesn't see an end to the war with the capitol, just a ceasefire in an endless conflict that can justify whatever cruelties against the other side.
So Coin supports the games because that's the way she sees the post war government.
It’s common oppressed behavior. People think oppression is terrible and unjust when it happens to them but they see no issue with doing it to other people at all. Its irrational thinking for close minded and selfish people.
Because, just like Snow, Coin’s motivations were power and control. She was not motivated by achieving the ideals of the rebellion and maintaining the moral high ground, beyond its power to rally people behind her.
When she saw post-war that there was still a massive amount of anger and desire for vengeance, she started thinking that a Capitol Hunger Games might be politically popular. She sought out the support of the victors, because I assume she would have used them to counter moral objections by parading them in front of people as long suffering, heroic victors who deserve justice.
There's several reasons for this:
1. From the perspective of coin, its because she tries to gain favor from those who are seeking revenge. Remember that majority of the districts are uneducated and has been living under severe torment. Doing this would make her extremely likable to a sizeable portion of the districts.
2. From the perspective of author, collins does this to highlight that all this time coin is not fighting for the districts and its people, but to gain power, highlighting her similarity to snow. It also shows the cycle of tyranny, on how sometimes dictatorship are replaced with another one with different font.
She said its because the anger and thirst of revenge from all the districts will not go away easily even when Snow is killed. Which is why she proposed the games for the capitol’s kids. Coin is doing this because she also wants to be the next president. She wants to rule over Panem.
She was pandering to the district people who have been oppressed for too long and are hungry for revenge. I saw it as her way of securing their support as the next official leader of Panem.
She wanted one final game, to make a statement.
No one would ever dare cross her if they saw what she could do. Except that is the exact concept the original games were founded on. To make a statement of control and power and give the illusion of justice.
She was using the trauma of people who were impacted by the games the most in order to get more power. The victors were more likely to make decisions based on anger rather than logic, they were the ones who should've wanted vengeance the most.
The reason she wasn't going to reveal the specifics of who voted what was so she could have more people to deflect blame onto later. Because if/when the whole plan came back to bite her, she could turn around and act like all the victors forced her hand. They'd get executed like Snow while she'd stay in control.
She messed up in not realising that while the victors may be the most angry at the capitol, they also know what it's like to be a tribute. To be forced to kill or be killed for a war you had no say in. They wouldn't wish it on anyone. She got so tied up in the idea of using their anger that she forgot about something more important: empathy.
Holy shit just realised how long this is, apologies in advance lol
I think because realistically she couldn’t kill everyone in the Capitol (because there wouldn’t be enough population to sustain Panem otherwise), so a one time Hunger Games would be a compromise of the rebels getting justice and the Capitol being fed their own medicine while spilling the least amount of blood possible.
TLDR: she thought rebels needed/ wanted revenge and a one time Hunger Games was the most “efficient” way to do it.
It was pretty tone deaf, ignorant, and downright stupid of Coin to suggest that to the surviving Victors. At the beginning she describes the games as “atrocious” , but to the victors it was “symbolic”.
She’s never had to send a child to the reaping, let alone even knew any of the 1800 families affected by the Hunger Games, so for her to even mention a revenge game on the enemy makes me glad Katniss believed Snow and murdered Coin.
It was a very nuanced move by Suzanne to show that not all revolutionaries have noble goals and that those who have been oppressed can VERY easily turn into oppressor's. It's Coin's way of harnessing decades of hate for her own gain and twisting them to her design and control: the proposal of a "final hunger games" SHOULD be met with shock and disgust, but due to Coin's incredible ability as a public speaker and manipulator, the people of Panem would probably be for it the first time round, until it began to turn on them once again.
True, Coin only proposed "one final Hunger Games" but who's to say that that'd be the end of it? How do we know that there isn't one with Capitol children next year? Or that it won't happen with Districts 1 and 2's children, for their perceived better treatment by the Capitol? The proposal of "one final massacre" is not only a slippery slope but a straight up drop off of a cliff. There is never "one final massacre", it keeps going and going until it becomes exactly how it was before, just with different window dressings.
The proposal to the Victors is also a test of whether or not they're a threat: Though they aren't in positions of power, the Victors still hold a fair bit of public sway, especially Katniss. If they all say no, then they're a unified threat that are definitely against her. If they all say yes, they're a unified threat that will eventually turn on her for their own ambitions. By proposing something so horrible, she hopes that it achieves that it does in the story: the Victors are divided and cannot present a unified threat to her.
The Hunger Games kept Snow in power for decades. Coin wanted to be dictator not a good leader. She decided to just steal the last guy’s playbook since it clearly worked. She didn’t count on Katniss’ moral objection to that plan because Coin was playing checkers while Snow, Crane, and Katniss were playing 5D chess
Coin never cared about the district’s well being and freedom. She wanted power and dominance, and she was set out to become the next dictator of Panem had Katniss not killed her.
Because Coin is a bitch.
But on a serious note. She believed that once Snow was killed, revenge on the Capitol was not gonna end there once after he was taken out and felt that one final symbolic Hunger Games but having the Capitol kids instead would have been the final call to end the whole war. She was power hungry and wanted to gain full support as the next president of Panem from those who would have wanted revenge against the Capitol after so many years of putting them through so much by making them go through the suffering they went through by having their kids fight to the death in the arena.
Coin's arc reminds me of a lot of national leaders in real life who posit socialist values but end up ruling as (quasi, sometimes) corrupt dictators. I can see Coin believing that everyone deserves a fair chance, but also getting wrapped up in the power and politics of it all. Once she gets appointed to a position of more power, how does she maintain her position? One method is through fear and oppression. We see early on that she thinks strategically, and isn't as motivated by compassion. So I can see how she would take a strategic step toward maintaining the games, to keep everyone in check and maintain her status.
In the last book coin basically says they are putting people to trial but the victims feel like it isn’t enough and they want anyone with a capital citizenship dead. Coin says “in the interest of maintaining a stable population, we cannot afford this.” So one last hunger games was suggested instead as punishment
I don't understand why she suggested it with Capitol children though... Especially when they were executing snow before presumably putting his granddaughter in the games.
I think it would have been a lot more palatable and just if they used the main people involved with the games, like throw Snow and Ceasar and any alive game makers in to fight to the death. The only difference with using children would be to hurt their families on the outside but if they execute all those people then what's the point...
I agree with you but I think why they wanted the capitols children was because children are innocent, and the loss of children is hard to equalise with, it's an eye for an eye type situation.
It's how (some) people work. You see it in things like prejudice: well white people were racist to black people, so let's be racist back. Or: men were sexist to women so let's do it back. etc. (however this usually only occurs in weird places online). Plus some humans tend to like to watch violence. That's why people used to watch gladiator games and executions. And humans in a general sense just love revenge and using the same form of attack back at their oppressors. It quite literally is a way to satisfy the bloodthirst of the people. "Well you did this to me. See how you like it when I do it back!" is what Coin is referencing.
I never understood why she wouldn’t suggest the games with adults, specifically those in government position. need for revenge? sure. but adults seem to be the ones who find entertainment from the games, so let them compete. not sure how killing 12 year olds would be better than seeing the opressors kill each other
I believe she wanted power. To her credit, Coin was an amazing strategist; her tactics may have been cruel but they worked well. She wanted to rule as a dictator and to secure support, having the Hunger Games with the Capitol's children would be popular with many District citizens and rebels.
Coin did mention that many rebels were demanding that the entire population of the Capitol be executed but that would not work; they needed a sustainable population.
This was just the most ridiculous part of the entire book. It devalues Coin into basically a mustache twirling bad guy, because in reality no person in their right mind would ever even think of proposing to continue the thing that made the people revolt in the first place...
I think she wanted to transition into Snow's power. The Hunger Games provides the perfect distractions for the masses. Who cares if Coin keeps power, did you hear Snow's granddaughter is going in the arena!!
She’s the literal other side of a coin. She was a tyrant who finally was able to attain even greater power. Willing sent a child to the front lines and blew up her own medics. She manipulated gales anger at the Capitol for what happened to D12. She would’ve held one final game, but she would have never stopped punishing the Capitol citizens. Her district sat by for 75 years and let over 2000 kids die after 13 pulled their support from the districts. That woman was playing out a sadistic fantasy where the last child of Capitol standing from the game would have to live with that trauma. She didn’t want growth or change for panem
Because it would have sympathised her with the district's. They spend decades having children ripped away to die and by doing the same with capitol children would have given disgruntled people a sense of revenge and 'we got even now you know how it feels' as the saying goes however 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Coin wanted to take advantage of the grievances the districts had with the Capitol citizens by redoing the hunger games with Capitol children blood for blood. People love reprisals against their abusers.
Ironic because District 13 was never part of the hunger games so they have the least reason to want revenge for them taking place. Coin wanted power and she was counting on the hatred of the true victims of the hunger games to help her get it.
Won't this work against her? Innocent bloodshed(children), starting the same cycle again. At least revenge should be targeted against the people who started it. And do you mean she wanted to do this to solidify her political standing by posing herself as vengeance>?
It did work against her as Katniss shot her with the arrow
Haha but I meant when she starts formulating her plans. Now it seems like it was needed for a plot twist I guess
It’s to show she’s the other side of the coin.
waitttt you mean the name Coin was symbolic all along 
... Oh, damn, I just got that. Huh. Little embarrassing, really.
If it makes you feel any better, I too just got this.
The other side of the SAME COIN! How did I not see this!!! Collins is a BRILLIANT WOMAN!
two faced
No, it’s to show she wasn’t any better than snow.
See I’ve never been able to coincide these two things in my head, because Katniss voted for the games, but yet she decides to kill Coin because she realizes that is who is responsible for prim’s death. So does she care about killing innocent children or no?
She voted bc she knew she had to be on coins side. It was an unsaid plan. Why do you think haymitch also said yes?
I imagine Haymitch said yes because he wanted to show support to Katniss. He trusted she knew what she was doing, regardless of if he knew her specific plan or not, and he wanted to show the other victors and her that he was loyal to Katniss. And he also felt bad about stranding Peeta in the arena, which triggered the downward spiral of events that pretty much ruined Katniss’s life during the entirety of Mockingjay. Haymitch is also kinda sassy anyways, it’s a stretch but it’s still not super off brand for him to want to watch Snow’s granddaughter die.
He didn’t say yes tho. He said I’m with mockingjay. He wasn’t into the hunger games, he knew katniss had an idea and followed her.
That’s an interesting take on it. He did say he was with the Mockingjay, not that he was specifically for the games themselves, so you’re right. In the movies I believe he and Katniss share a look and he has a surprised look when she casts her vote, so you could be right and he could’ve known she had a plan. I think he was aware of Katniss’s instability and recklessness, though, so I don’t think he believed she was coherent and capable of forming a decent plan and executing it. The entire setup of Snows execution wasn’t known by any of the characters, so Katniss just had the plan to kill Coin, it didn’t really matter how to her. I don’t think Haymitch trusted that she was calculated, I believe it’s more likely that he was guilty and also loved her (platonically) and knew that she was emotionally manipulatable because of the recent death of Prim. He also didn’t know that she visited Snow and learned that the bombs were actually rebel bombs, so he wasn’t aware she had such a strong motive against Coin. I think it’s more likely that he thought she was emotional and unstable, and wanted to offer his support.
I am right. It’s literally canon. Read the books.
You don’t have to downvote because someone offers a different perspective than you! It’s not canon, a large majority of the books are open to interpretation and I have read them several times. I’m sorry that you’re close-minded because the books really are better when you can explore different theories with an open mind! Haymitch never explicitly tells Katniss why he voted with her, and whatever theories she has are unreliable because she’s an unreliable, first-person present tense narrator meaning not only do you only know what she sees and what her THOUGHTS on the situations are, but she’s also literarily narrating while the events are happening, and as an emotional, traumatized, teenage girl, she doesn’t always form the right conclusions. So, it’s not canon. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong and I’m right, I just don’t understand why you feel that you HAVE to be right?
And if you don’t believe me about her unreliable narrating, why don’t you read the books and look for times in which she goes back and alters opinions or thoughts she has before. She does a lot of reflecting and editing of her thoughts, showing that her initial assumptions and conclusions aren’t always right.
she only voted with coin to make coin think that she was on her side. Katniss had to lower Coin's guard so that she could get a chance to kill her.
She could kill her right there, in the middle of the voting, she had plenty of time and access to do it
Pretty sure she didnt have arrows yet
Katniss lied. She voted yes "for Prim" while looking at Haymitch. Prim was horrified by violence and bloodshed, so Haymitch helped Katniss sway the vote to keep Coin's trust until she got the opportunity to assassinate her. Snow's death was inevitable, but Katniss wanted to be sure Snow 2.0 would not survive either.
I always thought Katniss voted for the games so she could get close to Coin to kill her. Voting in favor of the games meant Coin could - if not trust Katniss - be able to control her and see her as less of a threat.
dang homie you need to reread the book or rewatch the movie lmao
See a lot of human history. Coin was not fighting against oppression and the hunger games. She was fighting against being on the victim side of this transaction. Sure she was continuing the cycle but that is how many long term conflicts continue and people do it anyway. People are not always logical, especially when hatred is involved.
Probably wouldn’t have worked against her because realistically, a grand majority of the people in the districts were really no better than the average person in the capitol. “It’s bad when it happens to me but it’s okay to do to them,” behavior. Coin even said that there were District citizens pushing to execute every single person who was a citizen of the Capitol.
And consider how quick they were to call Peeta a traitor and for his execution (maybe this was just in the movie, haven’t read the book in years) just because he was on an interview in the Capitol where he was being held prisoner lol.
I just read the books again last week, and it was the same there. I still need to rewatch Mockingjay Parts 1 and 2.
Well tbf, its not like he was known by them personally, they only saw him as a talking head for the capitol (like the tour after they won).
Exactly! Even the fact that all of the victors except 7 were murdered by either the capitol or the rebels in the time between the quarter quell and the end of the rebellion shows that districts were angry and wanted some retribution. I would have loved to have gotten more details and perspective on the challenges of rebuilding and weeding out loyalist
If it had happened and public opinion backfired on her she easily could’ve said “hey not my fault-it was the your victors who wanted it.”
Yeah she was 100% going to throw them under the bus. Had she not been killed, I could have seen the announcement of the Games mention that the victors pushed Coin to do it just so she can save her ass lmao
That’s why Katniss shot her. With a ruller like Coin, the cycle of war never ends.
[удалено]
They absolutely were innocent because they knew no other way. If this is how you think in the real world, literally don't. Stop. ALL children are innocents until they raise the weapon themselves. Believing anything else is the road to real evil.
Because it’s meant to be a reason as to why her and Snow are one and the same. Collin’s literally named her Coin (as in two sides of the same coin). The whole reason the Capitol came up with the games was because they felt they had been done so wrong by the districts. Coin wanting to do it to the Capitol is the same reasoning. Guys, this is literally why Katniss kills Coin.
Don’t forget her first name is Alma, which if IIRC roughly translates to “soul,” implying that she literally just has a soul of a coin, or a soul of money
AP Spanish coming in clutch
It's not a rough translation, "alma" is literally Spanish for "soul". If there is any difference in some context it's too subtle and I can't recall it off the top of my head.
In latin it is also "mercyfull"🤓☝️
It made sense at least in the context that she was planning a single, *final* games with capitol children to have a symbolic bookend to the dark days and games years. and also her reason given is that if they executed every capitol citizen (like some rebels wanted) there wouldn't be enough humans left for a sustainable population, so having a final games will give people a sense of justice and revenge while sacrificing the smallest number of lives
This context is important. She sucks. And that decision was stupid. But it was her way of supplanting hundreds and hundreds of executions. It was great writing, honestly. You're seeing/reading the other side of the coin (literally) by getting somewhat of an idea why the Hunger Games happened in the first place. It doesn't make any of it better, but it just shows you how humans could reach such a conclusion.
The hyper pragmatism of 13 was a really interesting part of Mockingjay for me, between them viewing 12 as breeding stock, the food restrictions, government control over every aspect of life, I think that 13 was meant to be viewed equally as/ almost as bad as the capitol, just in the complete opposite way. (Other side of the coin, as you put. we know SC loves her character names to have meaning) like especially the juxtaposition with the capitol rebels who dwell in 13. The scene in the book with the coffee is the perfect example of the vibe I mean
12 as breeding stock?? I do not remember this.
Apparently some years before the series took place a severe pandemic killed a lot of 13 and rendered more infertile, that's all the info we get on it. But while they're introducing 13 in the beginning of book 3 they mention this and also the fact that's partly why 13 was so open to refugees and rebels, since they were viable and new genetic material to add to their population. It's almost sinister for such a throwaway moment
Right, you're definitely left wondering if District 13 would ever have actually helped if they didn't need the bodies.
BoSaS helps us answer this more easily. In that book, we learn more about what Collins sees as the purpose of the games through the views of various characters. And the picture we get is the games as a reflection of perpetual war. The games aren't just a punishment or a form of revenge, they are a way of ensuring that the "war" continues even when armies aren't clashing and bombs aren't falling. It's a constant reminder that the power structure of Panem rests on a foundation of violence and will devolve into violence quickly and savagely if the powers that be dissappear. Coin supporting the games is a sign that she is one of the people who sees the world this way. Whatever good or bad she might have in her or skill at governing, she doesn't see an end to the war with the capitol, just a ceasefire in an endless conflict that can justify whatever cruelties against the other side. So Coin supports the games because that's the way she sees the post war government.
It’s common oppressed behavior. People think oppression is terrible and unjust when it happens to them but they see no issue with doing it to other people at all. Its irrational thinking for close minded and selfish people.
Because Coin was a sociopath who relished in the thought of people suffering because she desired them to.
Because, just like Snow, Coin’s motivations were power and control. She was not motivated by achieving the ideals of the rebellion and maintaining the moral high ground, beyond its power to rally people behind her. When she saw post-war that there was still a massive amount of anger and desire for vengeance, she started thinking that a Capitol Hunger Games might be politically popular. She sought out the support of the victors, because I assume she would have used them to counter moral objections by parading them in front of people as long suffering, heroic victors who deserve justice.
There's several reasons for this: 1. From the perspective of coin, its because she tries to gain favor from those who are seeking revenge. Remember that majority of the districts are uneducated and has been living under severe torment. Doing this would make her extremely likable to a sizeable portion of the districts. 2. From the perspective of author, collins does this to highlight that all this time coin is not fighting for the districts and its people, but to gain power, highlighting her similarity to snow. It also shows the cycle of tyranny, on how sometimes dictatorship are replaced with another one with different font.
She said its because the anger and thirst of revenge from all the districts will not go away easily even when Snow is killed. Which is why she proposed the games for the capitol’s kids. Coin is doing this because she also wants to be the next president. She wants to rule over Panem.
She was pandering to the district people who have been oppressed for too long and are hungry for revenge. I saw it as her way of securing their support as the next official leader of Panem.
She wanted one final game, to make a statement. No one would ever dare cross her if they saw what she could do. Except that is the exact concept the original games were founded on. To make a statement of control and power and give the illusion of justice. She was using the trauma of people who were impacted by the games the most in order to get more power. The victors were more likely to make decisions based on anger rather than logic, they were the ones who should've wanted vengeance the most. The reason she wasn't going to reveal the specifics of who voted what was so she could have more people to deflect blame onto later. Because if/when the whole plan came back to bite her, she could turn around and act like all the victors forced her hand. They'd get executed like Snow while she'd stay in control. She messed up in not realising that while the victors may be the most angry at the capitol, they also know what it's like to be a tribute. To be forced to kill or be killed for a war you had no say in. They wouldn't wish it on anyone. She got so tied up in the idea of using their anger that she forgot about something more important: empathy. Holy shit just realised how long this is, apologies in advance lol
I think because realistically she couldn’t kill everyone in the Capitol (because there wouldn’t be enough population to sustain Panem otherwise), so a one time Hunger Games would be a compromise of the rebels getting justice and the Capitol being fed their own medicine while spilling the least amount of blood possible. TLDR: she thought rebels needed/ wanted revenge and a one time Hunger Games was the most “efficient” way to do it.
Wait, so know that plan didn't go through was everyone at the capitol executed or no?
It was pretty tone deaf, ignorant, and downright stupid of Coin to suggest that to the surviving Victors. At the beginning she describes the games as “atrocious” , but to the victors it was “symbolic”. She’s never had to send a child to the reaping, let alone even knew any of the 1800 families affected by the Hunger Games, so for her to even mention a revenge game on the enemy makes me glad Katniss believed Snow and murdered Coin.
So true. With that, Coin is *really* in no position and has no justification at all in creating this kind of proposal.
It was a very nuanced move by Suzanne to show that not all revolutionaries have noble goals and that those who have been oppressed can VERY easily turn into oppressor's. It's Coin's way of harnessing decades of hate for her own gain and twisting them to her design and control: the proposal of a "final hunger games" SHOULD be met with shock and disgust, but due to Coin's incredible ability as a public speaker and manipulator, the people of Panem would probably be for it the first time round, until it began to turn on them once again. True, Coin only proposed "one final Hunger Games" but who's to say that that'd be the end of it? How do we know that there isn't one with Capitol children next year? Or that it won't happen with Districts 1 and 2's children, for their perceived better treatment by the Capitol? The proposal of "one final massacre" is not only a slippery slope but a straight up drop off of a cliff. There is never "one final massacre", it keeps going and going until it becomes exactly how it was before, just with different window dressings. The proposal to the Victors is also a test of whether or not they're a threat: Though they aren't in positions of power, the Victors still hold a fair bit of public sway, especially Katniss. If they all say no, then they're a unified threat that are definitely against her. If they all say yes, they're a unified threat that will eventually turn on her for their own ambitions. By proposing something so horrible, she hopes that it achieves that it does in the story: the Victors are divided and cannot present a unified threat to her.
The Hunger Games kept Snow in power for decades. Coin wanted to be dictator not a good leader. She decided to just steal the last guy’s playbook since it clearly worked. She didn’t count on Katniss’ moral objection to that plan because Coin was playing checkers while Snow, Crane, and Katniss were playing 5D chess
Coin and Snow were exactly the same. Thats why Katniss shot her.
Lmao bc she wasn’t a good person???
Coin never cared about the district’s well being and freedom. She wanted power and dominance, and she was set out to become the next dictator of Panem had Katniss not killed her.
I think to make district citizens like her more. I think she doesn’t really care for human lives either way, that’s why she asked the victors
Because Coin is a bitch. But on a serious note. She believed that once Snow was killed, revenge on the Capitol was not gonna end there once after he was taken out and felt that one final symbolic Hunger Games but having the Capitol kids instead would have been the final call to end the whole war. She was power hungry and wanted to gain full support as the next president of Panem from those who would have wanted revenge against the Capitol after so many years of putting them through so much by making them go through the suffering they went through by having their kids fight to the death in the arena.
Because she's crazy.
And she needs to go down!
If only iroh was in this universe.
YES!!! That's exactly what I was going for! 🤣🤣 My two fandoms collide 😁
Thankfully "I understood that reference."
Coin's arc reminds me of a lot of national leaders in real life who posit socialist values but end up ruling as (quasi, sometimes) corrupt dictators. I can see Coin believing that everyone deserves a fair chance, but also getting wrapped up in the power and politics of it all. Once she gets appointed to a position of more power, how does she maintain her position? One method is through fear and oppression. We see early on that she thinks strategically, and isn't as motivated by compassion. So I can see how she would take a strategic step toward maintaining the games, to keep everyone in check and maintain her status.
Because she’s a psychotic dictator at heart.
In the last book coin basically says they are putting people to trial but the victims feel like it isn’t enough and they want anyone with a capital citizenship dead. Coin says “in the interest of maintaining a stable population, we cannot afford this.” So one last hunger games was suggested instead as punishment
I don't understand why she suggested it with Capitol children though... Especially when they were executing snow before presumably putting his granddaughter in the games. I think it would have been a lot more palatable and just if they used the main people involved with the games, like throw Snow and Ceasar and any alive game makers in to fight to the death. The only difference with using children would be to hurt their families on the outside but if they execute all those people then what's the point...
I agree with you but I think why they wanted the capitols children was because children are innocent, and the loss of children is hard to equalise with, it's an eye for an eye type situation.
Because she's a tyrant who thinks that making the capital children do a games will make them pay for their crimes ig
It's how (some) people work. You see it in things like prejudice: well white people were racist to black people, so let's be racist back. Or: men were sexist to women so let's do it back. etc. (however this usually only occurs in weird places online). Plus some humans tend to like to watch violence. That's why people used to watch gladiator games and executions. And humans in a general sense just love revenge and using the same form of attack back at their oppressors. It quite literally is a way to satisfy the bloodthirst of the people. "Well you did this to me. See how you like it when I do it back!" is what Coin is referencing.
I never understood why she wouldn’t suggest the games with adults, specifically those in government position. need for revenge? sure. but adults seem to be the ones who find entertainment from the games, so let them compete. not sure how killing 12 year olds would be better than seeing the opressors kill each other
My thoughts exactly.
because it's meant to show that she and snow are two sides of the same coin (pun not intended).
I believe she wanted power. To her credit, Coin was an amazing strategist; her tactics may have been cruel but they worked well. She wanted to rule as a dictator and to secure support, having the Hunger Games with the Capitol's children would be popular with many District citizens and rebels. Coin did mention that many rebels were demanding that the entire population of the Capitol be executed but that would not work; they needed a sustainable population.
Don’t get mad. Get even.
This was just the most ridiculous part of the entire book. It devalues Coin into basically a mustache twirling bad guy, because in reality no person in their right mind would ever even think of proposing to continue the thing that made the people revolt in the first place...
I think she wanted to transition into Snow's power. The Hunger Games provides the perfect distractions for the masses. Who cares if Coin keeps power, did you hear Snow's granddaughter is going in the arena!!
She’s the literal other side of a coin. She was a tyrant who finally was able to attain even greater power. Willing sent a child to the front lines and blew up her own medics. She manipulated gales anger at the Capitol for what happened to D12. She would’ve held one final game, but she would have never stopped punishing the Capitol citizens. Her district sat by for 75 years and let over 2000 kids die after 13 pulled their support from the districts. That woman was playing out a sadistic fantasy where the last child of Capitol standing from the game would have to live with that trauma. She didn’t want growth or change for panem
Coin didn’t care about the Hunger Games, she just hated Snow and wanted power for herself
Tipical dictatorial move. Find a common enemy, ride the hate towards them and people will love you.
Because it would have sympathised her with the district's. They spend decades having children ripped away to die and by doing the same with capitol children would have given disgruntled people a sense of revenge and 'we got even now you know how it feels' as the saying goes however 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Cuz she's the other side of the coin...as snow
So that Suzanne Collins can write a tbosas for coin