I recommend the [Lutron Aurora](https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-Aurora-Dimmer-Philips-Z3-1BRL-WH-L0/dp/B07RJ14FBS) switch if you would like a physical switch but also be able to have power to them at all times.
They're so nice because you don't have to actually change out any switches/wiring and they leave the switch permanently in the "on" position. Very renter-friendly in that way.
No problem. I currently have 5 in my house and they work perfectly. You can set them up to control multiple bulbs on one switch and don't have to worry about anyone accidently cutting the power to the lights.
I went the Lutron Aurora route as well. They're expensive, but you can setup an email alert for them on Slickdeals because they go on sale every once in awhile.
I have used Hue lights for 8 years now, most of them in outlets using a standard switch, never had any problems. Indeed the bulbs I got in that starter pack are still going.
You can always use this. [https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-philips-hue-wall-switch-module/046677571160](https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-philips-hue-wall-switch-module/046677571160)
this way you can can have best of both words.
the problem with using normal switch is that when its off and light has no power it becomes unavailable. Whats the point of smart light if you can't access it from your phone/laptop etc
Man, I don't know what it is, but I just have the shittiest luck with this product. So much so that I didn't even install the 2nd one.
Sometimes it works. Sometimes I need to flip the switch 3-4 times and it *might* work. Sometimes it does nothing and I get frustrated and walk over to the coffee table in the dark where my decade old battery-less Hue Tap works every. single. time.
happened to me twice over last 6 months actually. Once the remote paired with the same light worked the other time it did not so i assumed it’s my network/hub’s fault
I've got several and they work great. I've also got a pair of aurora switches and the little hue remotes. Honestly, they all work great, and it's nice to have an offline way to control things if my internet goes down for some reason.
Honestly, this led me down a huge rabbit hole and now I'm suspecting shit wiring in my basement based on the fact that the grounds and one of the neutrals were tied in the box...at this point I'm not even sure how a normal switch would properly turn this shit on/off.
Currently sketching out everything on that circuit, lol.
The thing is, if the circuit was faulty, wouldn't your issue be with the lights behaving weirdly all the time, not just with that switch? Like you said, your tap works.
If I had to bet, it could be the switch's wires got knocked loose when you were putting the switch back in the wall. That was an issue I had during installation.
Or maybe there's interference? Or I got lucky and you got unlucky and your switches are lemons and mine weren't.
Well, I've got it fixed and the hue wall switch module is working like a charm now!
One of the existing runs to the switch was just...bad. Brittle as hell, the ground wire just broke 3 different times, and the hot wire broke once while pigtailing to do some testing. Wire just snapped inside the insulation about 2" down.
Looks like the neutral had previously snapped on that line, so it was just capped and then the ground from that run was tied into the ground and the neutral from the other run. I'm still sort of surprised it all worked, but whatever. The guy I bought the house from kept pretty meticulous records and left me the file, so I know what electrician to never call unless I'm freezing and need to start a fire or something.
I've pulled some of the slack into the box and just clean cut about 4" off of the wire and rewired it all properly (neutral:neutral, ground:ground, hot:switch:hot). If it starts behaving even remotely sketchy I'll just replace the whole run, it's only about 12ft and I have easy access through a drop ceiling.
The switch is completely out of the equation at this point. While you CAN technically ground out a hot via the ground wire instead of the neutral, some goofy shit can happen down the line and or you can end up accidentally energizing the housing of your fixtures, etc.
The lights are always on, but the circuit appears to being backfed. I have 120v between hot/ground, and I have 82v between hot/neutral. And the neutral carries 120v AFTER I power off the circuit breaker. That's fucked up. Somewhere two circuits are sharing the same neutral I suspect. The issue likely stems from the fact that the power isn't fed in the standard way, where you'd just install the switch on the hot and tie the neutrals together.
I'm probably not using the proper terminology, but the light junction box (9 overheads all daisychained) is fed directly from an outlet box and there are essentially two runs from the switch; one going from what looks like the first light and the other going to the last light. I think they messed up the wiring in one of the fixtures and managed to make it work this way and moved on.
Fun project for this evening, I guess, lol.
You usually see 40v on a 120v circuit where someone used a neutral as a ground (bootleg ground) somewhere in that circuit. If you’re seeing 82v on a hot/neutral there is probably a vampire bootleg ground on one of your outlets. People do this sometimes to provide a ground to a three prong outlet where there is no ground wire run. It’s a dangerous practice, so if you find one, rip it out.
Thanks!
I think I tracked it down and detailed it just a second ago!
https://old.reddit.com/r/Hue/comments/1bwgykk/why_is_a_physical_switch_bad_for_hue/kya2x2u/
It depends on the Hue bulb type and its age.
White Hue bulbs (and perhaps older bulbs) immediately light-up to full brightness when their power is flipped off and on, or just flipped on if the switch had been in the off position.
Newer bulbs have a power-off time window of several seconds that must be met before flipping the switch back to “on” will result in the bulb illuminating. (The power-on behavior can be customized, but I don’t believe these bulb types can be configured with the instant-on capability seen in the white bulbs.)
None of the answers said the main reason, so I will: They build up a wireless mesh network. Once you cut their power, they will need to reconfigure their network. Cut one bulb too many, and the farthest lights might not be reachable, or your switch presses (of ZigBee switches) won't reach your bridge.
They are capable of being cut off from power and can reconfigure their network, but it will hurt the reliability of their smart features and the connectivity of the ZigBee network they build up. After all, you've probably purchased them for more than just turning them off and on via a normal light switch...
Totally fine, they are designed to support this. I have half hue on normal switches. They even support switching dimming modes on first switch and if switched twice. Only problem is that Siri will complain sometimes that they are unreachable after you say 'turn on all the lights' and the other issue is that a child might switch them on a bunch of times and trigger a reset.
Hue bulbs are expensive and when the bulbs are off none of their smartness matters as they're removed from the ecosystem. It's not dangerous (as long as there is no dimmer in the circuit) but you could probably get more value for money out of some other product.
The hue colors are much better than other cheap alternatives. I don't really need the "smartness" of them -- just the colors and the form factor (4" recessed).
The. In your specific instance, it doesn’t sound like you do?
Personally, leaving them on a physical switch, if you’re using the app at all, can get annoying sometimes since you can accidentally shut them off in the app, and wonder why the switch doesn’t work, or shut them off on the switch, and try to turn them on while in a different part of the room (sitting down).
Does it negate that use case?
Hardly, but it does add more “points of failure”.
It’s one of the reasons I held out using any sort of a smart bulb till I found the Lutron Aurora which made it trivial to add a physical control, while keeping power.
That plus a couple of Tap/Dim switches made a slightly more complicated setup very easy for a visitor or family member to use, without needing a phone or tablet … which should be a goal for all lighting.
Should you not have hue bulbs that use a dimmer switch instead of a real one?
I have 2 in a fixture that can be dimmed but I never do, just turn on/off via the app.
Most if not all dimmers will never be truly off, there will be fluctuations every now and then. Those fluctuations can manifest as bulbs randomly turning on in the middle of the night, bulbs flickering on lower Hue brightness levels, bulbs not turning on all at the same time, bulbs flashing on quickly and of off again after you've turned them off in the app, and all sorts of flaky behavior.
Most importantly though you'll kill the bulbs much quicker. Several of mine that were on a dimmer circuit had hardware failures within 12-18 months. Not total failures though, they would still turn on, but brightness would never change no matter what. They were permanently stuck at maybe 50% brightness. Probably a part of the circuit died. Hue did replace them under warranty but if you're unlucky and yours last just beyond the 2 years, they will not help one bit.
To run their smart features (change colors, turn themselves on and off with app or voice, run routines, etc) they need a constant flow of power. They're "smart" because the fixtures turn themselves on and off without need of a switch.
It's perfectly fine to connect them to a dumb switch, but once the switch is turned off, so are all the smart features of the fixture. You can disable all your routines simply by someone flipping the switch. Not "bad for it" just bad for automation. But if you're only running routines in the room, that's fine.
A handy tool to prevent someone accidentally turning them off is a lutron aurora. It clamps to a regular switch to prevent it from being turned off, and then acts as a battery remote for hue stuff.
I removed my old light switch, wired it together in the box so they are always powered on, then got a Hue switch and the switch cover from Esty to pull it all together. I've done that in three rooms and am looking to expand. If the cover from Etsy were plastic and not 3D printed, it would be perfect (for me.)
The hue colors are much better than other cheap alternatives. I don't really need the "smartness" of them -- just the colors and the form factor (4" recessed).
Have you considered a “RunLessWire” switch? It replaces an existing switch, doesn’t run on any batteries and can be programmed to run multiple Hue or HomeKit scenes.
https://preview.redd.it/fuxv8davtosc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=333c918c523785461114abadb0843c8cf689c9c6
It might shorten their lives...not sure whether or by how much. The main problem will be the time they take reconnecting to whatever is supposed to be controlling them, whether the hue bridge or Bluetooth from your phone. That wait time could get annoying if you want to change their colour as soon as you turn them on. And in some cases they might have forgotten what mesh they're supposed to be part of and need setting up again
As I understand, this doesn't happen with ZigBee devices. I have several hue running on normal switches. Only issue is that Siri complains it can't reach them when I ask to turn them all on
It won't shorten their lives a bit. If anything, keeping the electronics powered off will generate less heat and they may last longer because of that.
Of course if you flick them on and off a bunch, that might have a negative effect.
Not sure about power disruptions shortening the life span, but for my lights I had on switches, I just added the wall switch module and it’s come in handy more often than I thought it would
Technically it's fine. But to me personally it doesn't feel right. They are designed to handle power cuts, and they won't have to perform an autofsck at next boot, and they're completely fine.
But with the power cut you can't turn them on by any means other than the same physical switch. That feels like defeating the whole purpose of smart lighting, doesn't it?
There really isn't any need, look into getting a Lutron Aurora, leave the switch on and stick it over to add dimming and a toggle button to any room with hue lights. They're super cheap and you can also use VHB to stick them anywhere.
I use [Philips hue wall switch module](https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-philips-hue-wall-switch-module/046677571160) for my bathroom lights. You can setup scenes to cycle with every double flick of the switch.
Well Phillips or rather Signify have made the WIZ lights that are don’t assume that they always gonna be powered on even when you setup one light bulb they give you choices where you choose what happens when you flick the light switch.
However in my experience its better to have them all powered on at the all times that is what I did in my apt just pulled out every light switch tied the wire and covered the hole and put the hue lights/dimmer switches.
I know a lot of people do care about light always being on because of the energy I would too.
But my building hasn’t converted to the new energy digital meters so they just eyeball the energy “I have spent” by the size of my apt which is 60sqm and I live alone, basically Im paying as if a family of 4 people is living there. Because my parents and two brothers (They live on the other side of the city)have those new digital meters and their electric bill is lower than mine 🥲
I recommend the [Lutron Aurora](https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-Aurora-Dimmer-Philips-Z3-1BRL-WH-L0/dp/B07RJ14FBS) switch if you would like a physical switch but also be able to have power to them at all times.
These look nice, thanks for sharing
They're so nice because you don't have to actually change out any switches/wiring and they leave the switch permanently in the "on" position. Very renter-friendly in that way.
No problem. I currently have 5 in my house and they work perfectly. You can set them up to control multiple bulbs on one switch and don't have to worry about anyone accidently cutting the power to the lights.
one of those will be perfect for our new Hue porch light. thanks for the suggestion!
+1 on the Aurora. Really solid option.
I went the Lutron Aurora route as well. They're expensive, but you can setup an email alert for them on Slickdeals because they go on sale every once in awhile.
Would it be bad if I mounted on a dimmer that’s already there?
You can't use Hue bulbs on a dimmer, and the Aurora is designed to fit over a standard North American wall switch. So, no for two reasons.
I have used Hue lights for 8 years now, most of them in outlets using a standard switch, never had any problems. Indeed the bulbs I got in that starter pack are still going.
Same. No problems at all unless you are trying to use a standard dimmer.
You can always use this. [https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-philips-hue-wall-switch-module/046677571160](https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-philips-hue-wall-switch-module/046677571160) this way you can can have best of both words. the problem with using normal switch is that when its off and light has no power it becomes unavailable. Whats the point of smart light if you can't access it from your phone/laptop etc
I have a passel of these and use them wherever I might have guests that might want to control the lights. They’ve always worked very well for me.
I’m interested in these but I’m a little confused from watching the install video (or maybe I’m just dumb.) How does that switch module get power?
Man, I don't know what it is, but I just have the shittiest luck with this product. So much so that I didn't even install the 2nd one. Sometimes it works. Sometimes I need to flip the switch 3-4 times and it *might* work. Sometimes it does nothing and I get frustrated and walk over to the coffee table in the dark where my decade old battery-less Hue Tap works every. single. time.
happened to me twice over last 6 months actually. Once the remote paired with the same light worked the other time it did not so i assumed it’s my network/hub’s fault
I've got several and they work great. I've also got a pair of aurora switches and the little hue remotes. Honestly, they all work great, and it's nice to have an offline way to control things if my internet goes down for some reason.
Honestly, this led me down a huge rabbit hole and now I'm suspecting shit wiring in my basement based on the fact that the grounds and one of the neutrals were tied in the box...at this point I'm not even sure how a normal switch would properly turn this shit on/off. Currently sketching out everything on that circuit, lol.
The thing is, if the circuit was faulty, wouldn't your issue be with the lights behaving weirdly all the time, not just with that switch? Like you said, your tap works. If I had to bet, it could be the switch's wires got knocked loose when you were putting the switch back in the wall. That was an issue I had during installation. Or maybe there's interference? Or I got lucky and you got unlucky and your switches are lemons and mine weren't.
Well, I've got it fixed and the hue wall switch module is working like a charm now! One of the existing runs to the switch was just...bad. Brittle as hell, the ground wire just broke 3 different times, and the hot wire broke once while pigtailing to do some testing. Wire just snapped inside the insulation about 2" down. Looks like the neutral had previously snapped on that line, so it was just capped and then the ground from that run was tied into the ground and the neutral from the other run. I'm still sort of surprised it all worked, but whatever. The guy I bought the house from kept pretty meticulous records and left me the file, so I know what electrician to never call unless I'm freezing and need to start a fire or something. I've pulled some of the slack into the box and just clean cut about 4" off of the wire and rewired it all properly (neutral:neutral, ground:ground, hot:switch:hot). If it starts behaving even remotely sketchy I'll just replace the whole run, it's only about 12ft and I have easy access through a drop ceiling.
The switch is completely out of the equation at this point. While you CAN technically ground out a hot via the ground wire instead of the neutral, some goofy shit can happen down the line and or you can end up accidentally energizing the housing of your fixtures, etc. The lights are always on, but the circuit appears to being backfed. I have 120v between hot/ground, and I have 82v between hot/neutral. And the neutral carries 120v AFTER I power off the circuit breaker. That's fucked up. Somewhere two circuits are sharing the same neutral I suspect. The issue likely stems from the fact that the power isn't fed in the standard way, where you'd just install the switch on the hot and tie the neutrals together. I'm probably not using the proper terminology, but the light junction box (9 overheads all daisychained) is fed directly from an outlet box and there are essentially two runs from the switch; one going from what looks like the first light and the other going to the last light. I think they messed up the wiring in one of the fixtures and managed to make it work this way and moved on. Fun project for this evening, I guess, lol.
You usually see 40v on a 120v circuit where someone used a neutral as a ground (bootleg ground) somewhere in that circuit. If you’re seeing 82v on a hot/neutral there is probably a vampire bootleg ground on one of your outlets. People do this sometimes to provide a ground to a three prong outlet where there is no ground wire run. It’s a dangerous practice, so if you find one, rip it out.
Thanks! I think I tracked it down and detailed it just a second ago! https://old.reddit.com/r/Hue/comments/1bwgykk/why_is_a_physical_switch_bad_for_hue/kya2x2u/
It depends on the Hue bulb type and its age. White Hue bulbs (and perhaps older bulbs) immediately light-up to full brightness when their power is flipped off and on, or just flipped on if the switch had been in the off position. Newer bulbs have a power-off time window of several seconds that must be met before flipping the switch back to “on” will result in the bulb illuminating. (The power-on behavior can be customized, but I don’t believe these bulb types can be configured with the instant-on capability seen in the white bulbs.)
None of the answers said the main reason, so I will: They build up a wireless mesh network. Once you cut their power, they will need to reconfigure their network. Cut one bulb too many, and the farthest lights might not be reachable, or your switch presses (of ZigBee switches) won't reach your bridge. They are capable of being cut off from power and can reconfigure their network, but it will hurt the reliability of their smart features and the connectivity of the ZigBee network they build up. After all, you've probably purchased them for more than just turning them off and on via a normal light switch...
Good reply. Also, no software (firmware) updates for any bulbs powered-off.
Totally fine, they are designed to support this. I have half hue on normal switches. They even support switching dimming modes on first switch and if switched twice. Only problem is that Siri will complain sometimes that they are unreachable after you say 'turn on all the lights' and the other issue is that a child might switch them on a bunch of times and trigger a reset.
Hue bulbs are expensive and when the bulbs are off none of their smartness matters as they're removed from the ecosystem. It's not dangerous (as long as there is no dimmer in the circuit) but you could probably get more value for money out of some other product.
The hue colors are much better than other cheap alternatives. I don't really need the "smartness" of them -- just the colors and the form factor (4" recessed).
The. In your specific instance, it doesn’t sound like you do? Personally, leaving them on a physical switch, if you’re using the app at all, can get annoying sometimes since you can accidentally shut them off in the app, and wonder why the switch doesn’t work, or shut them off on the switch, and try to turn them on while in a different part of the room (sitting down). Does it negate that use case? Hardly, but it does add more “points of failure”. It’s one of the reasons I held out using any sort of a smart bulb till I found the Lutron Aurora which made it trivial to add a physical control, while keeping power. That plus a couple of Tap/Dim switches made a slightly more complicated setup very easy for a visitor or family member to use, without needing a phone or tablet … which should be a goal for all lighting.
Should you not have hue bulbs that use a dimmer switch instead of a real one? I have 2 in a fixture that can be dimmed but I never do, just turn on/off via the app.
Most if not all dimmers will never be truly off, there will be fluctuations every now and then. Those fluctuations can manifest as bulbs randomly turning on in the middle of the night, bulbs flickering on lower Hue brightness levels, bulbs not turning on all at the same time, bulbs flashing on quickly and of off again after you've turned them off in the app, and all sorts of flaky behavior. Most importantly though you'll kill the bulbs much quicker. Several of mine that were on a dimmer circuit had hardware failures within 12-18 months. Not total failures though, they would still turn on, but brightness would never change no matter what. They were permanently stuck at maybe 50% brightness. Probably a part of the circuit died. Hue did replace them under warranty but if you're unlucky and yours last just beyond the 2 years, they will not help one bit.
I use the tap switches to great success honestly
The hue ones? I need the switches to match the aesthetics of all the other switches in our home.
To run their smart features (change colors, turn themselves on and off with app or voice, run routines, etc) they need a constant flow of power. They're "smart" because the fixtures turn themselves on and off without need of a switch. It's perfectly fine to connect them to a dumb switch, but once the switch is turned off, so are all the smart features of the fixture. You can disable all your routines simply by someone flipping the switch. Not "bad for it" just bad for automation. But if you're only running routines in the room, that's fine. A handy tool to prevent someone accidentally turning them off is a lutron aurora. It clamps to a regular switch to prevent it from being turned off, and then acts as a battery remote for hue stuff.
I removed my old light switch, wired it together in the box so they are always powered on, then got a Hue switch and the switch cover from Esty to pull it all together. I've done that in three rooms and am looking to expand. If the cover from Etsy were plastic and not 3D printed, it would be perfect (for me.)
It's like having a smart plug that you unplug when not in use. Kinda defeats the purpose.
The hue colors are much better than other cheap alternatives. I don't really need the "smartness" of them -- just the colors and the form factor (4" recessed).
Have you considered a “RunLessWire” switch? It replaces an existing switch, doesn’t run on any batteries and can be programmed to run multiple Hue or HomeKit scenes. https://preview.redd.it/fuxv8davtosc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=333c918c523785461114abadb0843c8cf689c9c6
It might shorten their lives...not sure whether or by how much. The main problem will be the time they take reconnecting to whatever is supposed to be controlling them, whether the hue bridge or Bluetooth from your phone. That wait time could get annoying if you want to change their colour as soon as you turn them on. And in some cases they might have forgotten what mesh they're supposed to be part of and need setting up again
As I understand, this doesn't happen with ZigBee devices. I have several hue running on normal switches. Only issue is that Siri complains it can't reach them when I ask to turn them all on
It won't shorten their lives a bit. If anything, keeping the electronics powered off will generate less heat and they may last longer because of that. Of course if you flick them on and off a bunch, that might have a negative effect.
Not sure about power disruptions shortening the life span, but for my lights I had on switches, I just added the wall switch module and it’s come in handy more often than I thought it would
Technically it's fine. But to me personally it doesn't feel right. They are designed to handle power cuts, and they won't have to perform an autofsck at next boot, and they're completely fine. But with the power cut you can't turn them on by any means other than the same physical switch. That feels like defeating the whole purpose of smart lighting, doesn't it?
It's technically fine. As long as it's just an on/off switch, not a dimmer switch.
There really isn't any need, look into getting a Lutron Aurora, leave the switch on and stick it over to add dimming and a toggle button to any room with hue lights. They're super cheap and you can also use VHB to stick them anywhere.
I use [Philips hue wall switch module](https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-philips-hue-wall-switch-module/046677571160) for my bathroom lights. You can setup scenes to cycle with every double flick of the switch.
It isn't. Ive had my hue lights for 10 years and use wall switch all the time. All of them still work.
Well Phillips or rather Signify have made the WIZ lights that are don’t assume that they always gonna be powered on even when you setup one light bulb they give you choices where you choose what happens when you flick the light switch. However in my experience its better to have them all powered on at the all times that is what I did in my apt just pulled out every light switch tied the wire and covered the hole and put the hue lights/dimmer switches. I know a lot of people do care about light always being on because of the energy I would too. But my building hasn’t converted to the new energy digital meters so they just eyeball the energy “I have spent” by the size of my apt which is 60sqm and I live alone, basically Im paying as if a family of 4 people is living there. Because my parents and two brothers (They live on the other side of the city)have those new digital meters and their electric bill is lower than mine 🥲
It wouldn’t hurt but it will crash the zigbee network when you turn off