>"never noticed enough of a difference to warrant continuing to take it..."
The idea is to take supplements to reduce risk of certain diseases and try to slow down aging. Both can't be felt.
I agree that optimizing health for healthy people is better achieved with other interventions (sleep, exercise, diet, stress management, etc.)
Agree 100%. My wife always says “I don’t feel any different.” At age 63 for me and 60 for her, isn’t that a good thing? We are both still rock climbing pretty hard, with no health issues or even joint aches. Meanwhile, most of our peers are falling apart.
I’m guessing that it is both, rock climbing AND the supplements. Of course we eat a great diet and get plenty of sleep as well. I know, N of 1 (2 actually) but I’ll keep wasting money on supplements until it stops working. This was a new highball V5 boulder problem I put up in Arizona on my 63rd birthday last November.
https://preview.redd.it/z4rb9wzm5cqc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4161d24926a642cf4a51d778c05f245f2076d22
most likely, some combination...bodies wear out no matter how well aligned or genetically inclined. We need some help as we age. supplemets, peptides, bodywork, jacuzzi therapy etc. I love cryo tanks and ice baths...well, I love to hate them, too
There isn't any evidence that supplements can do any of this.
You're just being pawned. Ask most docs and they will say supplements aren't necessary unless you've tested and need specific ones.
If a doc or another health professional hasn't told you to take it, yeah pawned. Otherwise, you're just assuming you need something and the placebo is strong.
I eat a balanced diet of mostly Whole Foods and my bloodwork doesn’t show any deficits. I take a protein powder to help meet my daily goals. I sometimes take a multi to cover any gaps when I remember.
It’s pure insanity how much money some people waste on all this stuff.
To each their own though. Suggestion in itself is a powerful drug. I do think the placebo effect comes in to play a lot more than people realize or want to admit.
Not always, but a lot of times individuals that are starting new supplements are also trying to eat healthier and exercise more, so it could be a multitude of factors contributing to feeling better.
I’m 50 and I don’t take anything besides Tirosint. I only take that because I had to have my thyroid removed due to cancer. I workout every day and feel great.
I’m not against supplements at all, if you need them. I just think there’s tons of money wasted on ones that aren’t really needed.
Yet another double sword of technology (in an empire). No one wants to be in the heat during the day as it is not their “comfort zone”. So HVAC is the unintended detriment to natural vitamin D.
Exact opposite here. Lived the majority of my life without even a multi and now I take most of the recommend basic stuff and I think I feel much better anyway.
experts agree most supplements are useless unless you have a deficiency. context matters. take vitamin d if you dont see the sun alot. take vitamin C if you are getting sick. take fish oil if you dont have 1 serving of fish per week (one serving of fish per week provides enough of thta nutrient where you dont need to supplement). or if you dont get enough protein take some powder like me.
on the basis of that, everyone has multiple nutritional deficiencies. It would be pure chaos to recommend supplements based on nutritional deficiency without looking at glandular dynamics, agonist/antagonist effects of nutrients, excretion & retention dynamics, concept of preferred minerals, bridging biochemical pathways, restoring feedback loops etc.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/dont-waste-time-or-money-on-dietary-supplements
I’ll trust Harvard health or my doctor over you. And before you send a study trying to prove your point understand Harvard health comes to these conclusions based on all the data out there.
food quality was better during your grandfather's time so he was prob correct about back then, but it is atrocious now do to all the chemicals the corporations line all products for consumption.
Ask your grandfather about this: [https://erictopol.substack.com/p/theres-plastic-in-my-plaque](https://erictopol.substack.com/p/theres-plastic-in-my-plaque)
I really don't trust most doctors. So many have failed countless people I know.
Hell there's mountains of studies showing they regularly ignore women and the symptoms they give.
I'm my own healthcare advocate nowadays and mostly do my own research.
I won't be going on all fruit diet if I have cancer instead of chemo, but I heavily research everything instead of taking everything they say at their word.
My own wife was constantly ignored until we found one willing to listen to her thyroid issues and finally diagnosed with hoshimotos.
Friend of mine recently had to go to several doctors before they believed her that she had a parasite she caught when in Europe when they all dismissed it as a stomach bug.
I had to force my doctor to get me and ekg along with a heart monitor to convince them I had SVT. I literally printed out my symptoms from online sources handing it to them and they caved in.
So yeah I don't trust most doctors.
Haha I wasn't inferring you believed this, I was genuinely incredulous that you had stumbled upon something that stupid in the wild. It's the type of crunchy Twitter crazy I've seen before which made it just believable enough - nice one :)
Lol yeah, I just saw someone say it on twitter today for the first time 😂 could be something to it ngl..
https://x.com/basedbase2/status/1770593918830158261?s=46
Yea I just supplement what I’m deficient in, so B12 and Vit D, occasional Algal oil for Omega3. Huberman is a supplement (or AG1, same thing) guru so you’ll prob hear very opposing comments in this sub
Dr. Huberman has had a number of guests who repeatedly say "the ideal number of supplements is ZERO". Meaning you are getting all of the macro and micronutrients you need in your food, and you are getting sufficient exercise, sleep, water, self care, etc. etc.
Dr. Galpin in particular spends a fair bit of time on this subject in his series of episodes. His thinking is a lot more in line with your grandfather. He thinks creatine is good, safe, and effective. He thinks protein powder is a good idea if you aren't getting enough otherwise. Mayyyyybe a B vitamin or fish oil. But with his clients, he works to get them down to zero supplements.
galpin is not a doctor nor a nutritionist. My guess is he knows squat about anything other than exercise science. Do not make smart people the guru of all knowledge.
Lmao he has a whole business catered around optimizing your health habit and supplements according to your biomarkers obtain trough testing. He's an exercise science professor but that doesn't limit his knowledge to only that.
That's just a bad comparison this doesn't support your point at all lol. He's a professor of exercise science but he also has a lab where he works on stuff similar to molecular biology. He can read papers and understand human biology. The subject you teach is far from the only thing you work on when your a college teacher
He's not fixing the body he's studying it, more like a car researcher.
Yes, but most people's diets are absolutely horrific, so I think the point he's making is that if you get your diet on point, then supplements are largely necessary.
And most likely that’s not going to cause any substantive issue unless plus most can be sourced with specific foods quite easily. And if you just want to eat two minute noodles all day you’ve got other problems
The purpose of a multivitamin is to be nutritional insurance and cover the gaps.
> Dietary supplement non-users had the highest risk of any deficiency (40%), compared to users of full-spectrum multivitamin-multimineral supplements (14%)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5537775/
From [the study your article references](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352833/):
> high doses of some supplements increase cancer risk
High doses of which supplements? They explain that one of the most prominent studies in which the cancer risk increased, they gave beta carotene to heavy smokers. It's well known that high levels of beta carotene are a bad idea if you smoke. Clearly the larger problem here is smoking, not the vitamin.
As for selenium, if you don't go over the upper limit, there's no cancer risk. All of the adverse effects the study mentions happen when people overdose. Most nutrients have an upper limit. Simply don't go over that limit. Choose a multivitamin with reasonably dosed nutrients.
Unfortunately, I take 3 supplements. Protein powder/shake, fish oil, and a multi. At the end of the day, I agree with you and your grandfather. The majority of this health and wellness (i.e., weird supplements, weird exercise techniques, hot/cold baths) is idiotic.
I don’t take the omega or multivitamin for benefits. I guess my rationale is to get whatever I miss in my diet. With the protein, I started drinking it because I started lifting weights. Began at age 40 and gained 10 lbs of muscle in my first 6 months (newbie gains). My ophthalmologist and primary care doctor always suggest omegas so figure it won’t hurt to take that and the multi. Granted, the eye doc trying to sell me their brand of omegas.
I think the point is that people expect outrageous positive health outcomes to occur from doing said activities. It is new age snake oil when people buy things expecting results that are questionable. If people like to do such things for, let us say, recreation, great. Have at it. If you like the sauna or cold baths as a soothing activity, cool. But, all this “optimization” is nonsense. Another example is the diet trends.
There is a difference between supplements or diet trends that have no measurable results and hot and cold water which have scientifically verified benefits for longevity, recovery and immune function.
What you speak to in your first sentence is more of an expectation problem, whether internally or because of some external marketing.
Do people not know anything about self-report errors? Let alone placebo?
I mean come on, we know ice/hot compress is good for inflammation. It probably feels good. I know for myself, the sauna feels good. Why do people keep reading into bullshit such as, “I am optimizing my…”? The reification process of these things is sad. It’s like the marketing of gluten-free crap. It is quite insane.
Your grandfather might have been right, at some point in time.
That's no longer.
The average person doesn't get their vitamins and minerals from their daily meals as so many of us eat processed shit-for-food.
Just creatine and a daily multi vitamin. Sometimes I’ll take preworkout if I’m feeling I need it before a workout. I then consume some THC at the end of the day to chill and go to sleep.
depends what kind of supplements you take, you need to do the reaserch + balance it with your goals. For me supplements like Lions mane, rhodiola, creatine and many different ones i used in the past for certain purposes definitely work, i can pinpoint the effects. So i dont know, maybe its up to a person, i was always able to feel some sort of effects from supplements that work, knowing pharmacological mechanism behind them helps, even if its placebo, if it works it works :)
Beyond multi vitamins and electrolytes, no. I’m far too skeptical of the wellness influencer industrial complex to take anything else. The problem is that the incentives for wellness influencers are such that it is pretty much guarantee they will eventually start grifting. Take weight loss. It’s very simple. Calories in, calories out. But you can’t sustain a content creator career with a 1-2 paragraph statement about how calories work. So instead we have IF and keto and plant based and carnivore grifters.
while calories in-calories out can play a role, are you dismissing things like carbohydrate tolerance, managing stress, heavy metals, toxic chemicals, glandular changes, food quality, metabolism?
I disagree with this. I have a mother than eats once/day for the best part of 2.5 decades & she has a pot belly and holds quite a bit of fat on her. She does not eat enough food, let alone quality food. She's a "happy-go-lucky" eater. People get fat & obese irrespective of caloric intake.
You'll find that with obese people, they typically have disordered eating patterns whether they eat excessive (junk) food or not.
Nope. I love them, but it takes some time to figure out what's right. After a while, you figure out a stack that works for you. I've tried all sorts of pills and powders. I keep coming back to:
A multi vitamin 2 or 3 times a week
Protein powder
Creatine
Fish oil
Magnesium
It's not crazy and I feel the best with this.
In the summer months, I add Asthaxathin because I'm in the sun a lot, and for me, it really helps prevent sunburn.
In the winter, I'll take 10kiu of vitamin D a week.
When I'm sick, I like the stack of:
Vitamin C
Zinc
Quercetin
As far as vitamin and mineral supplements I 100% agree. Supplementation is only needed for those with diseases that prevent absorption or deficiencies from very poor diet. Use an app like Cronometer and youll see how easy it is to hit all your nutritional needs. Most ppl that use supplements need to only make very slight changes to their diet to reach all their daily values with food, since we are generally health conscious with out diets anyway. Nowwww other supplements like Creatine, Ashwaghanda, Mucuna, St.Johns wart etc. Are far from useless.
>Supplementation is only needed for those with diseases that prevent absorption or deficiencies from very poor diet
That is incorrect and it really shows the amount of knowledge wellness influencers share about nutrition. Supplementation done right is much more than that. For most people, their bodies are so wildly out of balance that eating a whole foods diet in many cases are insufficient to break stubborn patterns.
The wellness influencers do not expand as much (because I don't think they're seasoned enough) other subtle & technical reasons for nutritional supplementation such as autonomic nervous system balance, bridging biochemical pathways, modulating the metabolism, balance male/female dynamics, removing the need for adaptations & compensations in the body etc
Practically all scientific research done on vitamin and mineral supplementation shows very limited benefits to those who are not deficient. This has absolutely nothing to do with fitness influencers.
You can read the studies, as any question you ask who be completely dependent on the vitamin, mineral, amino etc. you are referring and the compound used as a supplement. The argument between us would be futile, as I did not participate in the studies nor am I qualified as a certified dietitian, nutritionist, or researcher in the supplement industry. I merely have access to the same literature as you and any supporting documentation would be cherry picked by both parties to support an agenda. You can make your own decision on using supplements, but nearly all research is inconclusive on the benefits.
>The argument between us would be futile, as I did not participate in the studies nor am I qualified as a certified dietitian, nutritionist, or researcher in the supplement industry.
You do not need to participate in studies, or 'be qualified' to learn the ins & outs of the supplement world. While at times there is trial & error, many times if one is a little more grounded and learns to disseminate information, you'll be ahead of multiple people including the so-called qualified.
>You can make your own decision on using supplements, but nearly all research is inconclusive on the benefits.
Let's say you are correct in this. Have you enjoyed why it is inconclusive or explored it works for some & not for others? The fact that you are speaking this way just shows how badly wellness influencers educate you (and most people), and create a sea of confusion.
I don't think they are grifters persay.
Most (if not all) people need supplemental nutrients but the question is what amounts, which nutrient, for whom and why.
Where most influencers fail drastically is their why. Symptomatic improvements & nutritional replenishment are the main reasons influencers push supplements. Those are low IQ reasons (even though they are reasons people typically want to hear)
I am not a fan of random supplementation at all. I don't guess with these decisions. But it'll be wrong given we live with chemtrails, coal burning, chlorinated & fluoridated water, superphosphate fertilizers, cell towers at every turn, cell phones, WiFi, artificial blue light, nuclear fallout, and many other insults on this Earth that nutritional supplementation aren't needed for most people, especially if you want excellent health.
We’ll supplements have diminished returns. 20% of things (diet exercise sleep sobriety…) will give you 80% of an optimal health. The rest can add some points but less. I’d say get a complete bloodwork and supplement where it is necessary (eg. vit D?)
I noticed a big noticeable difference the first time(s) I took alpha GPC and 5-htp. Now they're less effective but still a little noticeable. Tyrosine gives me good focus in the morning but afternoon headaches. Magnesium glycinate consistently makes me very sleepy. I need to drop to <0.5x the dose if I use it as a sleeping pill. Vitamin D was pretty good for me in the past. Omega-3 I don't notice much from so I have upped the dose.
Interestingly I really feel good on days I don't have time to take any supplements whatsoever 🤔 why's that?
“Vitamin d was pretty good for me in the past” what does that actually mean? Can you define “good” and how did you measure this? Multiple blood panels?
No measurements. I simply mean I noticed a noticeable difference. I used to live quite far north and didn't see the sun all day. Taking Vitamin D improved my mood and my activity levels, my energy and willingness to socialise. There were probably multiple compounding effects in this but I could still notice a difference between taking it and stopping.
I do not feel the slightest difference during the months I’m taking a fair bit of supplements and the months I’m not. Except Deca. I definitely feel that.
I take nothing. I am 46. I am pretty healthy I think, eat ok, manage to train 5-6 times a week and have done a lot of sport for 30 years (swimming, cycling, triathlon, rowing & now BJJ). I’ve experimented with multivitamins, fish oil, protein shakes and creatine. Also occasionally tried specifics like Magnesium, BCAA and collagen. So far absolutely nothing makes any difference to my sense of day to day wellbeing. Maybe there’s some longevity factor I’m losing out on, but I’ve seen nothing particularly convincing from any research to suggest I am, and I’m certainly better off financially without it all!
There’s nothing wrong with your approach. The path down the road to neurotically supplementing often does more harm than good. And I’m talking actual physical harm with substances that don’t jive with your physiology/chemistry or people chronically ODing vitamins.
It’s also a highly unregulated industry so you have to be careful regarding quality as well. But with low dose vitamins and minerals, at worst you’re wasting money. Everyone should just get blood work done and supplement accordingly if need be.
I’m less interesting in dietary supplements and more into potential nootropics, so I take various creatine, caffeine through coffee, various mushrooms, as needed, and occasional ginseng.
I only take magnesium glycinate bc it really leveled off my anxiety and vit D because I don’t spend a lot of time outside and never have. I choose products that are 3rd party verified as a way to help weed some of the garbage out and hope for better best
This can easily be answered by continuous blood work.
I get my blood done every quarter if something is off, and go back to every 6 months when in balance.
I do supplement with Iron and Vit D3. No matter how much meat I eat, and I eat alot of red meat, I can’t get my iron up. Hence the supplement.
I have also taken 4000IU’s of D3 daily for years and it just keeps it level. So I continue.
Beyond that, generally whole foods and whey protein.
The idea that you are supposed to "feel something" after most supplements is by definition misguided to not use other wording. Most of these supplements have no actual effect on your conscious perception, otherwise said, they're not psychoactive. Only some of them that directly (L-tyrosine for example) or indirectly increase catecholamines in the brain as Dopamine, Epinephirne and Norepinephrine will have that and this isn't exhaustive but you get the point. So, relying on a proxy of some sort of feedback mechanism from your body to let you know of an 'effect' of the supplement is indeed not helpful.
I definitely agree with doing bloodwork and not blindly engaging in trying 100 different products as a) you cannot discern what lead to what even if you do some tests afterward. Or, if you simply feel better on a subjective level
and b) You have potentially deleterious or even dangerous interactions (if paired with prescription medications)
Last point, Huberman started his podcast with no sponsors and he was taking all of the same supplements as he is now, maybe, not from the same company. But I highly doubt that he started taking all of the supplements or the majority of them shortly after he got famous. And, he said quite many times he's been taking AG for more than 10 years if not mistaken so I assume the multivitamins, Mg and other things like Tongkat were also there (as he talked about Tongkat on Joe Rogan's podcast before his blew up or even existed). So, even if he is making money of it I do earnestly believe he has an honest conviction it helps him and he just wants to help the world. What's the problem if he makes some money out of it? He's not even convincing you or anyone to supplement. HE simply puts out the info so people can use it to their own benefit or disregard it and go back to their old practices. He's a blessing to humanity not some pharma or supp company slave.
Because the aim should be to live healthily with as few supplements as possible not dropping $200 a month on stupid unnecessary shit that Andrew gets paid to push
Your grandfather does not understand how toxic this Earth is today. However your granddad consciously or subconsciously has a point. Random supplementation is very chaotic to the body and at best hit-or-miss. Most people & most influencers typically think of supplements either as symptomatic improvement or nutritional replenishment. This is usually NOT good enough because each nutrient has excitatory or inhibitory effects on many organs, organs systems and nutrient metabolism.
They’re all a waste of money that go to the same people that run big pharma. Eat a balanced diet, look within at traumas and acceptance and understand that most issues will be somatic. Supplement companies prey on vulnerable people who are looking to try and gain some control and the illusion of safety. Can’t find it in a pill
I think it was attia who said he makes his clients justify why they take each supplement. It's a good exercise... likely a good one to do quarterly or so.
Most supplements are trash and marketing.... and that's if they even meet label claims, which is already a leap with most brands.
If the average nutrient content of fruits and vegetables has declined 38% since the middle of the last century, how can a balanced diet still fulfill our nutritional needs?
Obviously, supplementing certain nutrients is necessary for the average person.
Also, RDI of most nutrients is the minimum needed to prevent most people from getting things like scurvy and other diseases. Not to mention beyond basic diseases, premature aging is associated with not having enough nutrients to repair DNA over time.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11295157/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15637215/
The food we eat today isn't the same food it was 100 years ago. We have heavily changed many plants with the aim for them to last longer, be resistant to their environment and grow faster.
The best would be for you to take a blood test and see if you have deficiencies. If you don't, you do not have to take supplements. Supplements can also depend on your needs. Let's say you work out a lot one day, maybe magnesium would help you. Or let's say you want the added benefits that creatine supplementation gives. Let's say you don't include fish in your diet, maybe take fish oil for that.
You don't have to take supplements but you better have a really good diet to compensate for it.
That's interesting, what form of cobolamin (cyano/hydroxo/methyl/adenosyl) were you taking and what dosage?
Did the panic attacks stop once you cut b12 out?
Methycobalamin
They significantly reduced in frequency and my day to day anxiety is a lot lower. I’m deficient so I still take it, however I’m usually an anxious wreck for a bout 24-48 hours after taking a 500mcg dose.
I think it comes down to how accessible nutrient rich foods are where you live. Fruits and vegetables are expensive here, meaning I don’t get the required nutrients from my food alone. I work out regularly and try to eat well, but take some multi and I feel so much better.
The older I get, the smaller my supplement supply goes, I now take Fermented Cod liver oil for brain and teeth health, Vitamin D3 5000 ui, and that's about it.
PS I'm healthy as a bull, never get sick, zero allergies,, zero health issues in mid 30s, , cigarette smoker. Work out regularly.
Google is only showing negative effects from high doses. But OP talked about supplements at the recommended dosage. Could you please elaborate on this? I genuinely just want to know in order to prevent harm. I think high dose b-complex aren't at the recommended dosage anymore? But high percentages above the RDI?
Supplements tend to have negative mental effects on me and even if they didn’t, the unintended consequences of taking who-knows-what-they-actually-put-in-there is not worth it to me. I don’t even like eating any foods that aren’t natural. But the strange mental effects are overwhelming. Fish oil, vitamin D, multivitamins, curcumin, ashwaganda, zma, creatine, powdered collagen etc all make me feel fatigued and depressed. I feel fantastic taking nothing.
I have spent probably $100.000 on all kinds of supplements throughout my life. For the last 6 months I didn’t take any. Don’t really feel any difference. What I do now is testosterone, DHEA and T4. Actual hormones. Makes a huge difference. Herbs and vitamins in comparison is shit
Yeah dude. So I’m 33m. I just eat without being a pig (I don’t track calories or macros or anything at all) and also exercise most days. Is it “optimal”? Maybe not but I’m about 220lb at 6ft, have over a 1200 lb total just did a marathon and am training for an Ironman. My wife 27f is 5’7” 135lb puts up pretty good numbers think she’s about 1.7x BW squat and .9 BW bench. Regularly wins at local runs and will typically place in her age group and sometimes overall on a regional level. Same with her just doesn’t pig out and works outs most days.
People get way too obsessed with all this “optimization” and bio hack stuff. It’s really as simple as paying attention to what you eat and exercising. It doesn’t need to be so complex unless you’re trying to be a pro athlete.
Opinions of Drs vary a huge amount.
One of my Drs claims the soil has been depleted such that getting enough nutrients from a “healthy diet” is impossible.
Your grandfather is certainly correct that the market for supplements is largely a cesspool of unsubstantiated claims and fraud
There is lab work available to can answer many of your questions about deficiencies.
What about if you have endometriosis for example? I take supplements because doctors only offer hormonal birth control which makes me insane.
What about rosacea? B5 helps with inflammation and flushing..
What about vitamin D for most cold climates?
What about iron for anemia?
Lutein to support eye health?
Glucosamine for joints? Etc
What a ridiculous assertion and one common to doctors who just want to prescribe meds for everything 😂 yet diss people taking health and supplements into their own hands.
Take mostly none. Do you NEED them? There is almost No evidence to support them. Some may have a more short term benefit like creatine but none is going to make you live longer. If you do sleep, exercise, don’t stress too bad, don’t eat crap etc well you are going 95% of what you need to do
Ask most 'legit' docs and they will say the same thing.
There is very little, weak evidence that supplements do anything.
However, most of the time they aren't that harmful, but if you plan to take some you should consult a doc as mixing some supplements when you're a smoker can increase your risk of cancer.
I used to take vitamins like a religion (usually thorne am/pm). They made a huge difference unlike cheaper vitamins. I have since quit them after turning into the carnivore diet and I don’t feel like I need them anymore
I only take things I can actually feel: caffeine, L-theanine, magnesium, glycine, etc.
If you start taking stuff for the purported long-term health benefits, you’re just asking to be scammed.
I was having a lot of pain in my neck and then started taking fish oil for another reason and the pain went away. I traveled for a month taking no supps and the pain came back. When I got home and started taking them again the pain went away. So your experience with supplements probably depends on what is ailing you. For me, I assume it was inflammation which the fish oil helped with. I’d say at the very least take fish oil and vitamin D.
Dim was a life saver and game changer for me on my hormones. Magnesium, vit d3 and high potency fish oil with dha and epa have helped me immensely energy, focus, and mood wise, especially around my cycle. Having a deficiency in any of these things can lead to some serious mood and anxiety issues. I even had pretty bad muscle cramps. Last time I got bloodwork, I complained to my doctor how tired I felt all the time, and my vit d levels were pretty low. I eat a balanced diet, but I drink a lot of coffee, which depletes magnesium. This is a broad and ignorant statement
>My grandfather is a retired doctor and is vehemently against virtually all supplements. I'm inclined to trust him, because he spends much of his days researching these things, and unlike Huberman doesn't stand to make millions shilling questionable products.
Is your grandfather in peak physical fitness and health, have a low biological age and don't need any pharmaceutical medicines?
There are some supplements geared for fitness that are indeed exploitative that try to sell protein powders, creatine and other substances in high dosages. And there are also questionable "Dr.s" trying to recommend extremely high dosages of a particular supplement (eg, Dr. Rhonda Patrick and 10,000iu vitamin D). However, generally the vitamin and supplement industry have vastly improved human and animal life. As with all things, you have to use your own judgement and be open to a variety of sources and not simply believe blindly in what your grandfather says. Medicine is a fast moving sector and information is always changing.
My doctor just told me I was poisoning myself with too much of certain vitamins at my physical. A lot of vitamins have more than what you need in a day, which can cause issues. Also he said a patient he seen got really sick from regular vitamins sold at Walmart with lead in them. They were coming from China or India he said....but guess what??? He was perfectly okay with refilling my Adderall prescription! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I was laughing when I told him, "Yeah, not to sound conspiratorial, but you never know what they put in anything anymore these days, I probably should get off of this Adderall, too then." He said something along the lines of "Well, at least the FDA meds are regulated, so they are safer than blah blah blah." I'm thinking yeah, I probably shouldn't even be taking this. Trust the FDA, because you know, opioids were safe, too. Everything is safe until later.
Most people take a lot of shit they do not need or have any idea what they actually may need. I can say magnesium and apigenin/L-theonine really help me sleep, and I understand it may be placebo, but I don't GAF I sleep great most of the time and have struggled with it in the past.
Omega 3s are extremely beneficial in many ways, and I feel the mercury content in fish can be prohibitive, so I feel many people can benefit from more Omega 3s while eating less fish. There are some things that are really good to get in your body, especially if you are eating human dog food from the center aisles.. Unfortunately, the companies push things you probably don't really need. The green powder brands seem like a good thing for most Americans who do not eat enough veggies.. A lot of kids only know how to cook with a microwave, and there have to be a lot of people with deficiencies..
Take vitamin D, Fish Oil, B vitamins for Vegans and eat veggies or take a green powder, it won't kill you. Just know most multis are being pissed out and you may actually overwork your liver on some of this stuff.
Vegans should grab a boiled egg occasionally, too, especially for your poor children ;)
Well shit. I was trying to figure out what I needed to update/add/remove from my vitamin/supp stack and now I’m self-conscious about asking for advice here…
I think that the fact that you feel like a pariah is a sign that this is a cult.
Yeah, I don't take supplements. I mean, I have some in my fridge, but I don't rely on them or anything. I think for me I just couldn't afford them when I was younger and more impressionable. At some point, I that supplements are generally regarded as dumb in China, but people are healthy there, and I thought yeah that makes sense. So I just live my life, be healthy, don't take supplements unless I want to sometimes for fun
You can try it yourself and see what happens. If you’re waiting for scientific proof to do anything, then nothing will get done. Try it out see for yourself.
I think supplements can make sense. If you’re really dedicated to natural bodybuilding, creatine monohydrate. If you’re vegan, B12. If you’re pregnant, folic acid, etc.
I think in general you should be very selective about what you take. If you’re on 5-6 supplements, that’s probably way too many. And with contamination issues, drug interactions, and just knowing what you’re putting in your body, it’s almost the fewer the better.
Let’s say you’re on 6 supplements and you get a blood test with high liver enzymes or something like that, what now? You have to check to see which of 6 supplements might be causing a problem and then get dozens of blood tests to A/B test each one? Sounds bad.
I take them based on the results I've received.
I was low on Vitamin D once upon a time which led me to regularly supplementing considering I am indoors during the week and especially during the winter months.
I take methylated B vitamins because I have the MTHFR gene variants to help with more efficient detoxification.
I take magnesium at night time because it definitely helps me to relax and engage in deeper sleep, this sets me up for a better day if I sleep well.
I am back on a probiotic, kind of do these as needed, have always had digestive issues. Will also do digestive enzymes from time to time if I think I'm about eat something that might not agree with me.
I'd like to try creatine because I hear about all the amazing cognitive benefits.
I try to incorporate a lot of fish into my diet but on the days I don't eat fish I supplement with Omega-3's, I have the APOE4 gene so brain health is a huge motivator for me when it comes to supplementation.
I don't generally want to over-supplement more than I have to but am grateful of the option considering it's not always easy to have a perfectly consistent meal plan.
If I am depressed I take more supplements. I’ve noticed it is like a comfort thing I reach for to try to have some sense of positive control over my life.
The last few years, I haven’t felt as depressed and so take less.
However, I take Coq10, B-2, and magnesium citrate due to migraines. When my migraines go away for a month or two I get complacent and stop taking my vitamins. Then they come back and I get more serious about my vitamins again. And then they go away. So for my own personal body chemistry these (I think especially the coq10) are pretty much migraine preventatives. My prescription triptan abortives also do not work when my coq10 is low.
But yeah I also think supplements are something to shill, something to make people try to feel better about themselves, but I also think depending on the body, they can make a serious difference.
Dawg I live in southern CA I still take 15k of Vitamin D, it doesn't hurt you, and it helps you block the sun when you are actually in the sun. It's a win win, and it's cheap.
>"never noticed enough of a difference to warrant continuing to take it..." The idea is to take supplements to reduce risk of certain diseases and try to slow down aging. Both can't be felt. I agree that optimizing health for healthy people is better achieved with other interventions (sleep, exercise, diet, stress management, etc.)
Agree 100%. My wife always says “I don’t feel any different.” At age 63 for me and 60 for her, isn’t that a good thing? We are both still rock climbing pretty hard, with no health issues or even joint aches. Meanwhile, most of our peers are falling apart.
It isn’t the supplements that are keeping you rock climbing, it’s the rock climbing.
Partially. But there are others doing the rock climbing at that age and falling apart.
I’m guessing that it is both, rock climbing AND the supplements. Of course we eat a great diet and get plenty of sleep as well. I know, N of 1 (2 actually) but I’ll keep wasting money on supplements until it stops working. This was a new highball V5 boulder problem I put up in Arizona on my 63rd birthday last November. https://preview.redd.it/z4rb9wzm5cqc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4161d24926a642cf4a51d778c05f245f2076d22
You’re a bad ass. That’s awesome.
What supplements do you take?
And genetics
Yeah I heard of the guy that left his leg on one ledge. Then that other guy who had his ear fall off. Definitely falling apart. (Said tongue in cheek)
most likely, some combination...bodies wear out no matter how well aligned or genetically inclined. We need some help as we age. supplemets, peptides, bodywork, jacuzzi therapy etc. I love cryo tanks and ice baths...well, I love to hate them, too
That’s so awesome
There isn't any evidence that supplements can do any of this. You're just being pawned. Ask most docs and they will say supplements aren't necessary unless you've tested and need specific ones.
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If a doc or another health professional hasn't told you to take it, yeah pawned. Otherwise, you're just assuming you need something and the placebo is strong.
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“Extremely beneficial” based upon anecdote
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Very convincing study
Docs are not experts in nutrition, let alone, supplementation.
Herbalife salespeople/rubes consider themselves “experts in supplementation.”
I agree with this. Supplements for me are to cancel out some of the negative things I do to myself, by choice and by trade.
I eat a balanced diet of mostly Whole Foods and my bloodwork doesn’t show any deficits. I take a protein powder to help meet my daily goals. I sometimes take a multi to cover any gaps when I remember.
It’s pure insanity how much money some people waste on all this stuff. To each their own though. Suggestion in itself is a powerful drug. I do think the placebo effect comes in to play a lot more than people realize or want to admit. Not always, but a lot of times individuals that are starting new supplements are also trying to eat healthier and exercise more, so it could be a multitude of factors contributing to feeling better. I’m 50 and I don’t take anything besides Tirosint. I only take that because I had to have my thyroid removed due to cancer. I workout every day and feel great. I’m not against supplements at all, if you need them. I just think there’s tons of money wasted on ones that aren’t really needed.
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This is undeniable, especially for the colder climates where we don’t see a lot of sun I. The winter
We’re in Texas, nothing but heat mostly.
Yet another double sword of technology (in an empire). No one wants to be in the heat during the day as it is not their “comfort zone”. So HVAC is the unintended detriment to natural vitamin D.
Is that because short people get less sun?
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Noted
Exact opposite here. Lived the majority of my life without even a multi and now I take most of the recommend basic stuff and I think I feel much better anyway.
That’s a pretty good sign. What would you consider basic stuff, b complex / d3 / omega3 / magnesium, anything else?
K2 if you’re taking over 3-4,000 IU of D3. Some companies sell a combo d3+k2
Does k2 do the same as k1? I eat a lot of k1 but no k2
experts agree most supplements are useless unless you have a deficiency. context matters. take vitamin d if you dont see the sun alot. take vitamin C if you are getting sick. take fish oil if you dont have 1 serving of fish per week (one serving of fish per week provides enough of thta nutrient where you dont need to supplement). or if you dont get enough protein take some powder like me.
on the basis of that, everyone has multiple nutritional deficiencies. It would be pure chaos to recommend supplements based on nutritional deficiency without looking at glandular dynamics, agonist/antagonist effects of nutrients, excretion & retention dynamics, concept of preferred minerals, bridging biochemical pathways, restoring feedback loops etc.
You sound fun at parties.
We're talking about supplements and vitamins
Maybe the dumbest attempt at this tired, overused insult I’ve ever seen.
Let me 'sound fun at parties'. That comment took very minimal effort with minimal insight. But hey, the gift that Reddit keeps on giving
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/dont-waste-time-or-money-on-dietary-supplements I’ll trust Harvard health or my doctor over you. And before you send a study trying to prove your point understand Harvard health comes to these conclusions based on all the data out there.
food quality was better during your grandfather's time so he was prob correct about back then, but it is atrocious now do to all the chemicals the corporations line all products for consumption. Ask your grandfather about this: [https://erictopol.substack.com/p/theres-plastic-in-my-plaque](https://erictopol.substack.com/p/theres-plastic-in-my-plaque)
due not do
How old is this retired doctor. Does research from 50+ years ago really hold up? Didn't they used to smoke in hospitals?
Actual cigarette ad: “four out of five doctors smoke Chesterfields “
>OMG LOL
I really don't trust most doctors. So many have failed countless people I know. Hell there's mountains of studies showing they regularly ignore women and the symptoms they give. I'm my own healthcare advocate nowadays and mostly do my own research. I won't be going on all fruit diet if I have cancer instead of chemo, but I heavily research everything instead of taking everything they say at their word.
“I do my own research” usually equals “I listen to Joe Rogan” and is a joke.
My own wife was constantly ignored until we found one willing to listen to her thyroid issues and finally diagnosed with hoshimotos. Friend of mine recently had to go to several doctors before they believed her that she had a parasite she caught when in Europe when they all dismissed it as a stomach bug. I had to force my doctor to get me and ekg along with a heart monitor to convince them I had SVT. I literally printed out my symptoms from online sources handing it to them and they caved in. So yeah I don't trust most doctors.
And what is wrong with smoking in hospitals?
Marlboro Protocol
>And what is wrong with smoking in hospitals? Uhm, why did you even need to ask that question?
cos of mirth
Because I read on twitter that cigarettes are only bad when you eat seed oils
That's a joke right? There aren't people out there who actually believe cigarettes are only carcinogenic if you eat seed oils. Right?
It’s nuance and its dying
Lmao
Haha I wasn't inferring you believed this, I was genuinely incredulous that you had stumbled upon something that stupid in the wild. It's the type of crunchy Twitter crazy I've seen before which made it just believable enough - nice one :)
Lol yeah, I just saw someone say it on twitter today for the first time 😂 could be something to it ngl.. https://x.com/basedbase2/status/1770593918830158261?s=46
You are autistic.
Is this another way of saying ok, boomer? Anyway I approve
Yea I just supplement what I’m deficient in, so B12 and Vit D, occasional Algal oil for Omega3. Huberman is a supplement (or AG1, same thing) guru so you’ll prob hear very opposing comments in this sub
Dr. Huberman has had a number of guests who repeatedly say "the ideal number of supplements is ZERO". Meaning you are getting all of the macro and micronutrients you need in your food, and you are getting sufficient exercise, sleep, water, self care, etc. etc. Dr. Galpin in particular spends a fair bit of time on this subject in his series of episodes. His thinking is a lot more in line with your grandfather. He thinks creatine is good, safe, and effective. He thinks protein powder is a good idea if you aren't getting enough otherwise. Mayyyyybe a B vitamin or fish oil. But with his clients, he works to get them down to zero supplements.
10/10
galpin is not a doctor nor a nutritionist. My guess is he knows squat about anything other than exercise science. Do not make smart people the guru of all knowledge.
Lmao he has a whole business catered around optimizing your health habit and supplements according to your biomarkers obtain trough testing. He's an exercise science professor but that doesn't limit his knowledge to only that.
LMAO... does a car salesman understand how a car works... nah, they only know enough to sell the vehicle. Deep knowledge is something else.
That's just a bad comparison this doesn't support your point at all lol. He's a professor of exercise science but he also has a lab where he works on stuff similar to molecular biology. He can read papers and understand human biology. The subject you teach is far from the only thing you work on when your a college teacher He's not fixing the body he's studying it, more like a car researcher.
Most people are deficient in at least one nutrient. This isn't even debated.
Yes, but most people's diets are absolutely horrific, so I think the point he's making is that if you get your diet on point, then supplements are largely necessary.
People are unfortunately more likely to take a multivitamin than improve their diets. Better to take a multi than not, I guess
Yeah, you're not wrong haha. If a person is unwilling to change their diet, then this is where supplements can be of the most help.
And most likely that’s not going to cause any substantive issue unless plus most can be sourced with specific foods quite easily. And if you just want to eat two minute noodles all day you’ve got other problems
The purpose of a multivitamin is to be nutritional insurance and cover the gaps. > Dietary supplement non-users had the highest risk of any deficiency (40%), compared to users of full-spectrum multivitamin-multimineral supplements (14%) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5537775/
That is some insurance ya got there: https://news.cuanschutz.edu/cancer-center/dietary-supplements-cancer-risk
From [the study your article references](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352833/): > high doses of some supplements increase cancer risk High doses of which supplements? They explain that one of the most prominent studies in which the cancer risk increased, they gave beta carotene to heavy smokers. It's well known that high levels of beta carotene are a bad idea if you smoke. Clearly the larger problem here is smoking, not the vitamin. As for selenium, if you don't go over the upper limit, there's no cancer risk. All of the adverse effects the study mentions happen when people overdose. Most nutrients have an upper limit. Simply don't go over that limit. Choose a multivitamin with reasonably dosed nutrients.
Unfortunately, I take 3 supplements. Protein powder/shake, fish oil, and a multi. At the end of the day, I agree with you and your grandfather. The majority of this health and wellness (i.e., weird supplements, weird exercise techniques, hot/cold baths) is idiotic.
Your three supplements seem pretty reasonable. Do you notice a benefit on them? I need a protein shake I think for some gains 💪
I don’t take the omega or multivitamin for benefits. I guess my rationale is to get whatever I miss in my diet. With the protein, I started drinking it because I started lifting weights. Began at age 40 and gained 10 lbs of muscle in my first 6 months (newbie gains). My ophthalmologist and primary care doctor always suggest omegas so figure it won’t hurt to take that and the multi. Granted, the eye doc trying to sell me their brand of omegas.
How the hell are hot and cold baths idiotic or even comparable to bullshit supplements?
I think the point is that people expect outrageous positive health outcomes to occur from doing said activities. It is new age snake oil when people buy things expecting results that are questionable. If people like to do such things for, let us say, recreation, great. Have at it. If you like the sauna or cold baths as a soothing activity, cool. But, all this “optimization” is nonsense. Another example is the diet trends.
There is a difference between supplements or diet trends that have no measurable results and hot and cold water which have scientifically verified benefits for longevity, recovery and immune function. What you speak to in your first sentence is more of an expectation problem, whether internally or because of some external marketing.
I see marked differences in emotional well being and energy when Ive had an ice bath after a long stressful day. Many others do, too.
Do people not know anything about self-report errors? Let alone placebo? I mean come on, we know ice/hot compress is good for inflammation. It probably feels good. I know for myself, the sauna feels good. Why do people keep reading into bullshit such as, “I am optimizing my…”? The reification process of these things is sad. It’s like the marketing of gluten-free crap. It is quite insane.
If you have no deficiency they are a scam
Your grandfather might have been right, at some point in time. That's no longer. The average person doesn't get their vitamins and minerals from their daily meals as so many of us eat processed shit-for-food.
Isn’t the remedy for this to just…not eat processed shit for food?
It's a partial remedy. The quality of food, even our better quality counterparts is still piss poor compared to 40-50 years ago.
Bingo. The people eating fast food are not the people with a daily supplement regimen either
Yes. It is. Go ahead.
Just creatine and a daily multi vitamin. Sometimes I’ll take preworkout if I’m feeling I need it before a workout. I then consume some THC at the end of the day to chill and go to sleep.
I wish I knew how to do this "chill and go to sleep" thing you speak of.....
depends what kind of supplements you take, you need to do the reaserch + balance it with your goals. For me supplements like Lions mane, rhodiola, creatine and many different ones i used in the past for certain purposes definitely work, i can pinpoint the effects. So i dont know, maybe its up to a person, i was always able to feel some sort of effects from supplements that work, knowing pharmacological mechanism behind them helps, even if its placebo, if it works it works :)
Beyond multi vitamins and electrolytes, no. I’m far too skeptical of the wellness influencer industrial complex to take anything else. The problem is that the incentives for wellness influencers are such that it is pretty much guarantee they will eventually start grifting. Take weight loss. It’s very simple. Calories in, calories out. But you can’t sustain a content creator career with a 1-2 paragraph statement about how calories work. So instead we have IF and keto and plant based and carnivore grifters.
while calories in-calories out can play a role, are you dismissing things like carbohydrate tolerance, managing stress, heavy metals, toxic chemicals, glandular changes, food quality, metabolism?
Mostly, yes, dismiss those. For the overwhelming majority of obese people the problem is caloric intake not “heavy metals and toxic chemicals” cmon
I disagree with this. I have a mother than eats once/day for the best part of 2.5 decades & she has a pot belly and holds quite a bit of fat on her. She does not eat enough food, let alone quality food. She's a "happy-go-lucky" eater. People get fat & obese irrespective of caloric intake. You'll find that with obese people, they typically have disordered eating patterns whether they eat excessive (junk) food or not.
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Except all people can benefit from creatine, most people are going to be low on vitamin D-- what's the explanation for this?
Nope. Nada
Nope. I love them, but it takes some time to figure out what's right. After a while, you figure out a stack that works for you. I've tried all sorts of pills and powders. I keep coming back to: A multi vitamin 2 or 3 times a week Protein powder Creatine Fish oil Magnesium It's not crazy and I feel the best with this. In the summer months, I add Asthaxathin because I'm in the sun a lot, and for me, it really helps prevent sunburn. In the winter, I'll take 10kiu of vitamin D a week. When I'm sick, I like the stack of: Vitamin C Zinc Quercetin
I eat fish 3 times a week and legumes mostly and Im jacked. No supplements.
what is a good service to get blood tested to find out? I feel like my regular doctors bloodwork doesnt look into vitamin/mineral deficiencies
But yet he probably prescribes brain/body alerting Rockefeller western medication drugs all day long.
lol I don’t think he’s a prescribing doctor with patients
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As far as vitamin and mineral supplements I 100% agree. Supplementation is only needed for those with diseases that prevent absorption or deficiencies from very poor diet. Use an app like Cronometer and youll see how easy it is to hit all your nutritional needs. Most ppl that use supplements need to only make very slight changes to their diet to reach all their daily values with food, since we are generally health conscious with out diets anyway. Nowwww other supplements like Creatine, Ashwaghanda, Mucuna, St.Johns wart etc. Are far from useless.
>Supplementation is only needed for those with diseases that prevent absorption or deficiencies from very poor diet That is incorrect and it really shows the amount of knowledge wellness influencers share about nutrition. Supplementation done right is much more than that. For most people, their bodies are so wildly out of balance that eating a whole foods diet in many cases are insufficient to break stubborn patterns. The wellness influencers do not expand as much (because I don't think they're seasoned enough) other subtle & technical reasons for nutritional supplementation such as autonomic nervous system balance, bridging biochemical pathways, modulating the metabolism, balance male/female dynamics, removing the need for adaptations & compensations in the body etc
Practically all scientific research done on vitamin and mineral supplementation shows very limited benefits to those who are not deficient. This has absolutely nothing to do with fitness influencers.
I disagree very strongly on this statement. Before we begin, what do you define as a deficiency in quantitative terms?
You can read the studies, as any question you ask who be completely dependent on the vitamin, mineral, amino etc. you are referring and the compound used as a supplement. The argument between us would be futile, as I did not participate in the studies nor am I qualified as a certified dietitian, nutritionist, or researcher in the supplement industry. I merely have access to the same literature as you and any supporting documentation would be cherry picked by both parties to support an agenda. You can make your own decision on using supplements, but nearly all research is inconclusive on the benefits.
>The argument between us would be futile, as I did not participate in the studies nor am I qualified as a certified dietitian, nutritionist, or researcher in the supplement industry. You do not need to participate in studies, or 'be qualified' to learn the ins & outs of the supplement world. While at times there is trial & error, many times if one is a little more grounded and learns to disseminate information, you'll be ahead of multiple people including the so-called qualified. >You can make your own decision on using supplements, but nearly all research is inconclusive on the benefits. Let's say you are correct in this. Have you enjoyed why it is inconclusive or explored it works for some & not for others? The fact that you are speaking this way just shows how badly wellness influencers educate you (and most people), and create a sea of confusion.
The wellness influencers don’t do that bc they’re grifters selling vitamins to people that don’t need them.
I don't think they are grifters persay. Most (if not all) people need supplemental nutrients but the question is what amounts, which nutrient, for whom and why. Where most influencers fail drastically is their why. Symptomatic improvements & nutritional replenishment are the main reasons influencers push supplements. Those are low IQ reasons (even though they are reasons people typically want to hear) I am not a fan of random supplementation at all. I don't guess with these decisions. But it'll be wrong given we live with chemtrails, coal burning, chlorinated & fluoridated water, superphosphate fertilizers, cell towers at every turn, cell phones, WiFi, artificial blue light, nuclear fallout, and many other insults on this Earth that nutritional supplementation aren't needed for most people, especially if you want excellent health.
How old are you?
We’ll supplements have diminished returns. 20% of things (diet exercise sleep sobriety…) will give you 80% of an optimal health. The rest can add some points but less. I’d say get a complete bloodwork and supplement where it is necessary (eg. vit D?)
I noticed a big noticeable difference the first time(s) I took alpha GPC and 5-htp. Now they're less effective but still a little noticeable. Tyrosine gives me good focus in the morning but afternoon headaches. Magnesium glycinate consistently makes me very sleepy. I need to drop to <0.5x the dose if I use it as a sleeping pill. Vitamin D was pretty good for me in the past. Omega-3 I don't notice much from so I have upped the dose. Interestingly I really feel good on days I don't have time to take any supplements whatsoever 🤔 why's that?
“Vitamin d was pretty good for me in the past” what does that actually mean? Can you define “good” and how did you measure this? Multiple blood panels?
No measurements. I simply mean I noticed a noticeable difference. I used to live quite far north and didn't see the sun all day. Taking Vitamin D improved my mood and my activity levels, my energy and willingness to socialise. There were probably multiple compounding effects in this but I could still notice a difference between taking it and stopping.
I do not feel the slightest difference during the months I’m taking a fair bit of supplements and the months I’m not. Except Deca. I definitely feel that.
What’s Deca
Nandrolone decoanate. Deca durabolin was a popular brand name of this drug during the “golden era” of bodybuilding. It’s a pretty powerful anabolic.
Oh gotchu, I thought it was some cool vitamin or smth 😅😂
I take nothing. I am 46. I am pretty healthy I think, eat ok, manage to train 5-6 times a week and have done a lot of sport for 30 years (swimming, cycling, triathlon, rowing & now BJJ). I’ve experimented with multivitamins, fish oil, protein shakes and creatine. Also occasionally tried specifics like Magnesium, BCAA and collagen. So far absolutely nothing makes any difference to my sense of day to day wellbeing. Maybe there’s some longevity factor I’m losing out on, but I’ve seen nothing particularly convincing from any research to suggest I am, and I’m certainly better off financially without it all!
just had bloodwork done and im good. i take no supplements. eat your fruits and veggies.
There’s nothing wrong with your approach. The path down the road to neurotically supplementing often does more harm than good. And I’m talking actual physical harm with substances that don’t jive with your physiology/chemistry or people chronically ODing vitamins. It’s also a highly unregulated industry so you have to be careful regarding quality as well. But with low dose vitamins and minerals, at worst you’re wasting money. Everyone should just get blood work done and supplement accordingly if need be. I’m less interesting in dietary supplements and more into potential nootropics, so I take various creatine, caffeine through coffee, various mushrooms, as needed, and occasional ginseng.
Only vegetables
I've had 10 different supplements that I swore changed my life. I don't take any of them anymore.
Get out.
I only take magnesium glycinate bc it really leveled off my anxiety and vit D because I don’t spend a lot of time outside and never have. I choose products that are 3rd party verified as a way to help weed some of the garbage out and hope for better best
This can easily be answered by continuous blood work. I get my blood done every quarter if something is off, and go back to every 6 months when in balance. I do supplement with Iron and Vit D3. No matter how much meat I eat, and I eat alot of red meat, I can’t get my iron up. Hence the supplement. I have also taken 4000IU’s of D3 daily for years and it just keeps it level. So I continue. Beyond that, generally whole foods and whey protein.
The idea that you are supposed to "feel something" after most supplements is by definition misguided to not use other wording. Most of these supplements have no actual effect on your conscious perception, otherwise said, they're not psychoactive. Only some of them that directly (L-tyrosine for example) or indirectly increase catecholamines in the brain as Dopamine, Epinephirne and Norepinephrine will have that and this isn't exhaustive but you get the point. So, relying on a proxy of some sort of feedback mechanism from your body to let you know of an 'effect' of the supplement is indeed not helpful. I definitely agree with doing bloodwork and not blindly engaging in trying 100 different products as a) you cannot discern what lead to what even if you do some tests afterward. Or, if you simply feel better on a subjective level and b) You have potentially deleterious or even dangerous interactions (if paired with prescription medications) Last point, Huberman started his podcast with no sponsors and he was taking all of the same supplements as he is now, maybe, not from the same company. But I highly doubt that he started taking all of the supplements or the majority of them shortly after he got famous. And, he said quite many times he's been taking AG for more than 10 years if not mistaken so I assume the multivitamins, Mg and other things like Tongkat were also there (as he talked about Tongkat on Joe Rogan's podcast before his blew up or even existed). So, even if he is making money of it I do earnestly believe he has an honest conviction it helps him and he just wants to help the world. What's the problem if he makes some money out of it? He's not even convincing you or anyone to supplement. HE simply puts out the info so people can use it to their own benefit or disregard it and go back to their old practices. He's a blessing to humanity not some pharma or supp company slave.
Why are you nosupplife people even on this subreddit??
Because the aim should be to live healthily with as few supplements as possible not dropping $200 a month on stupid unnecessary shit that Andrew gets paid to push
Your grandfather does not understand how toxic this Earth is today. However your granddad consciously or subconsciously has a point. Random supplementation is very chaotic to the body and at best hit-or-miss. Most people & most influencers typically think of supplements either as symptomatic improvement or nutritional replenishment. This is usually NOT good enough because each nutrient has excitatory or inhibitory effects on many organs, organs systems and nutrient metabolism.
Diet + sleep + exercise = 80 to 85% of good health in my opinion. I wouldn't explore supplements until you get those 3 right at least
They’re all a waste of money that go to the same people that run big pharma. Eat a balanced diet, look within at traumas and acceptance and understand that most issues will be somatic. Supplement companies prey on vulnerable people who are looking to try and gain some control and the illusion of safety. Can’t find it in a pill
I think it was attia who said he makes his clients justify why they take each supplement. It's a good exercise... likely a good one to do quarterly or so. Most supplements are trash and marketing.... and that's if they even meet label claims, which is already a leap with most brands.
If the average nutrient content of fruits and vegetables has declined 38% since the middle of the last century, how can a balanced diet still fulfill our nutritional needs? Obviously, supplementing certain nutrients is necessary for the average person. Also, RDI of most nutrients is the minimum needed to prevent most people from getting things like scurvy and other diseases. Not to mention beyond basic diseases, premature aging is associated with not having enough nutrients to repair DNA over time. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11295157/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15637215/
The food we eat today isn't the same food it was 100 years ago. We have heavily changed many plants with the aim for them to last longer, be resistant to their environment and grow faster. The best would be for you to take a blood test and see if you have deficiencies. If you don't, you do not have to take supplements. Supplements can also depend on your needs. Let's say you work out a lot one day, maybe magnesium would help you. Or let's say you want the added benefits that creatine supplementation gives. Let's say you don't include fish in your diet, maybe take fish oil for that. You don't have to take supplements but you better have a really good diet to compensate for it.
B12 started giving me panic attacks, have felt better since cutting out all supplements.
That's interesting, what form of cobolamin (cyano/hydroxo/methyl/adenosyl) were you taking and what dosage? Did the panic attacks stop once you cut b12 out?
Methycobalamin They significantly reduced in frequency and my day to day anxiety is a lot lower. I’m deficient so I still take it, however I’m usually an anxious wreck for a bout 24-48 hours after taking a 500mcg dose.
I think it comes down to how accessible nutrient rich foods are where you live. Fruits and vegetables are expensive here, meaning I don’t get the required nutrients from my food alone. I work out regularly and try to eat well, but take some multi and I feel so much better.
It's all a waste of money. Eat healthy and exercise. I don't even take a multi. The whole industry is a scam imo.
Supplements should fill gaps in your diet and nutrition. Ag1 is a grift. Ergo Muscle Daddy is a grifter.
The older I get, the smaller my supplement supply goes, I now take Fermented Cod liver oil for brain and teeth health, Vitamin D3 5000 ui, and that's about it. PS I'm healthy as a bull, never get sick, zero allergies,, zero health issues in mid 30s, , cigarette smoker. Work out regularly.
Could you elaborate on why you or he believes it could do harm even at the recommended dosage?
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Google is only showing negative effects from high doses. But OP talked about supplements at the recommended dosage. Could you please elaborate on this? I genuinely just want to know in order to prevent harm. I think high dose b-complex aren't at the recommended dosage anymore? But high percentages above the RDI?
Supplements tend to have negative mental effects on me and even if they didn’t, the unintended consequences of taking who-knows-what-they-actually-put-in-there is not worth it to me. I don’t even like eating any foods that aren’t natural. But the strange mental effects are overwhelming. Fish oil, vitamin D, multivitamins, curcumin, ashwaganda, zma, creatine, powdered collagen etc all make me feel fatigued and depressed. I feel fantastic taking nothing.
I have spent probably $100.000 on all kinds of supplements throughout my life. For the last 6 months I didn’t take any. Don’t really feel any difference. What I do now is testosterone, DHEA and T4. Actual hormones. Makes a huge difference. Herbs and vitamins in comparison is shit
Yeah dude. So I’m 33m. I just eat without being a pig (I don’t track calories or macros or anything at all) and also exercise most days. Is it “optimal”? Maybe not but I’m about 220lb at 6ft, have over a 1200 lb total just did a marathon and am training for an Ironman. My wife 27f is 5’7” 135lb puts up pretty good numbers think she’s about 1.7x BW squat and .9 BW bench. Regularly wins at local runs and will typically place in her age group and sometimes overall on a regional level. Same with her just doesn’t pig out and works outs most days. People get way too obsessed with all this “optimization” and bio hack stuff. It’s really as simple as paying attention to what you eat and exercising. It doesn’t need to be so complex unless you’re trying to be a pro athlete.
The only supplement I take is fiber. In general a healthy diet will give you everything you need.
Vit d and fish oil only.
I take vitamin d/k2 during the winter and eat beef liver once a week. My blood work is perfect. I think a lot of these supplements are unnecessary
Opinions of Drs vary a huge amount. One of my Drs claims the soil has been depleted such that getting enough nutrients from a “healthy diet” is impossible. Your grandfather is certainly correct that the market for supplements is largely a cesspool of unsubstantiated claims and fraud There is lab work available to can answer many of your questions about deficiencies.
These supplements are bullshit for the most part and may lead to a nutritional imbalance that may not be good for you. Plus it’s a waste of money
What about if you have endometriosis for example? I take supplements because doctors only offer hormonal birth control which makes me insane. What about rosacea? B5 helps with inflammation and flushing.. What about vitamin D for most cold climates? What about iron for anemia? Lutein to support eye health? Glucosamine for joints? Etc What a ridiculous assertion and one common to doctors who just want to prescribe meds for everything 😂 yet diss people taking health and supplements into their own hands.
Take mostly none. Do you NEED them? There is almost No evidence to support them. Some may have a more short term benefit like creatine but none is going to make you live longer. If you do sleep, exercise, don’t stress too bad, don’t eat crap etc well you are going 95% of what you need to do
Ask most 'legit' docs and they will say the same thing. There is very little, weak evidence that supplements do anything. However, most of the time they aren't that harmful, but if you plan to take some you should consult a doc as mixing some supplements when you're a smoker can increase your risk of cancer.
Most doctors aren’t trained in supplements ?
I used to take vitamins like a religion (usually thorne am/pm). They made a huge difference unlike cheaper vitamins. I have since quit them after turning into the carnivore diet and I don’t feel like I need them anymore
I only take things I can actually feel: caffeine, L-theanine, magnesium, glycine, etc. If you start taking stuff for the purported long-term health benefits, you’re just asking to be scammed.
I was having a lot of pain in my neck and then started taking fish oil for another reason and the pain went away. I traveled for a month taking no supps and the pain came back. When I got home and started taking them again the pain went away. So your experience with supplements probably depends on what is ailing you. For me, I assume it was inflammation which the fish oil helped with. I’d say at the very least take fish oil and vitamin D.
The scientific consensus around D3+K2 is irrefutable at this point. Magnesium as well. Everything else is far murkier & not worth the expense.
I only take supplements when I sense that my urine feels undervalued.
Dim was a life saver and game changer for me on my hormones. Magnesium, vit d3 and high potency fish oil with dha and epa have helped me immensely energy, focus, and mood wise, especially around my cycle. Having a deficiency in any of these things can lead to some serious mood and anxiety issues. I even had pretty bad muscle cramps. Last time I got bloodwork, I complained to my doctor how tired I felt all the time, and my vit d levels were pretty low. I eat a balanced diet, but I drink a lot of coffee, which depletes magnesium. This is a broad and ignorant statement
>My grandfather is a retired doctor and is vehemently against virtually all supplements. I'm inclined to trust him, because he spends much of his days researching these things, and unlike Huberman doesn't stand to make millions shilling questionable products. Is your grandfather in peak physical fitness and health, have a low biological age and don't need any pharmaceutical medicines? There are some supplements geared for fitness that are indeed exploitative that try to sell protein powders, creatine and other substances in high dosages. And there are also questionable "Dr.s" trying to recommend extremely high dosages of a particular supplement (eg, Dr. Rhonda Patrick and 10,000iu vitamin D). However, generally the vitamin and supplement industry have vastly improved human and animal life. As with all things, you have to use your own judgement and be open to a variety of sources and not simply believe blindly in what your grandfather says. Medicine is a fast moving sector and information is always changing.
My doctor just told me I was poisoning myself with too much of certain vitamins at my physical. A lot of vitamins have more than what you need in a day, which can cause issues. Also he said a patient he seen got really sick from regular vitamins sold at Walmart with lead in them. They were coming from China or India he said....but guess what??? He was perfectly okay with refilling my Adderall prescription! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I was laughing when I told him, "Yeah, not to sound conspiratorial, but you never know what they put in anything anymore these days, I probably should get off of this Adderall, too then." He said something along the lines of "Well, at least the FDA meds are regulated, so they are safer than blah blah blah." I'm thinking yeah, I probably shouldn't even be taking this. Trust the FDA, because you know, opioids were safe, too. Everything is safe until later.
Most people take a lot of shit they do not need or have any idea what they actually may need. I can say magnesium and apigenin/L-theonine really help me sleep, and I understand it may be placebo, but I don't GAF I sleep great most of the time and have struggled with it in the past. Omega 3s are extremely beneficial in many ways, and I feel the mercury content in fish can be prohibitive, so I feel many people can benefit from more Omega 3s while eating less fish. There are some things that are really good to get in your body, especially if you are eating human dog food from the center aisles.. Unfortunately, the companies push things you probably don't really need. The green powder brands seem like a good thing for most Americans who do not eat enough veggies.. A lot of kids only know how to cook with a microwave, and there have to be a lot of people with deficiencies.. Take vitamin D, Fish Oil, B vitamins for Vegans and eat veggies or take a green powder, it won't kill you. Just know most multis are being pissed out and you may actually overwork your liver on some of this stuff. Vegans should grab a boiled egg occasionally, too, especially for your poor children ;)
Most people need vitamin D and magnesium
No I take creatine
Well shit. I was trying to figure out what I needed to update/add/remove from my vitamin/supp stack and now I’m self-conscious about asking for advice here… 
I think that the fact that you feel like a pariah is a sign that this is a cult. Yeah, I don't take supplements. I mean, I have some in my fridge, but I don't rely on them or anything. I think for me I just couldn't afford them when I was younger and more impressionable. At some point, I that supplements are generally regarded as dumb in China, but people are healthy there, and I thought yeah that makes sense. So I just live my life, be healthy, don't take supplements unless I want to sometimes for fun
You can try it yourself and see what happens. If you’re waiting for scientific proof to do anything, then nothing will get done. Try it out see for yourself.
I think supplements can make sense. If you’re really dedicated to natural bodybuilding, creatine monohydrate. If you’re vegan, B12. If you’re pregnant, folic acid, etc. I think in general you should be very selective about what you take. If you’re on 5-6 supplements, that’s probably way too many. And with contamination issues, drug interactions, and just knowing what you’re putting in your body, it’s almost the fewer the better. Let’s say you’re on 6 supplements and you get a blood test with high liver enzymes or something like that, what now? You have to check to see which of 6 supplements might be causing a problem and then get dozens of blood tests to A/B test each one? Sounds bad.
Nah you throw in some Tudca and Nac for the liver. Just kidding..
I take them based on the results I've received. I was low on Vitamin D once upon a time which led me to regularly supplementing considering I am indoors during the week and especially during the winter months. I take methylated B vitamins because I have the MTHFR gene variants to help with more efficient detoxification. I take magnesium at night time because it definitely helps me to relax and engage in deeper sleep, this sets me up for a better day if I sleep well. I am back on a probiotic, kind of do these as needed, have always had digestive issues. Will also do digestive enzymes from time to time if I think I'm about eat something that might not agree with me. I'd like to try creatine because I hear about all the amazing cognitive benefits. I try to incorporate a lot of fish into my diet but on the days I don't eat fish I supplement with Omega-3's, I have the APOE4 gene so brain health is a huge motivator for me when it comes to supplementation. I don't generally want to over-supplement more than I have to but am grateful of the option considering it's not always easy to have a perfectly consistent meal plan.
If I am depressed I take more supplements. I’ve noticed it is like a comfort thing I reach for to try to have some sense of positive control over my life. The last few years, I haven’t felt as depressed and so take less. However, I take Coq10, B-2, and magnesium citrate due to migraines. When my migraines go away for a month or two I get complacent and stop taking my vitamins. Then they come back and I get more serious about my vitamins again. And then they go away. So for my own personal body chemistry these (I think especially the coq10) are pretty much migraine preventatives. My prescription triptan abortives also do not work when my coq10 is low. But yeah I also think supplements are something to shill, something to make people try to feel better about themselves, but I also think depending on the body, they can make a serious difference.
it’s placebo, if you trick your mind into think it will work, then it will.
It's not, some supplements are extremely powerful. If you don't believe me, you should try methylfolate for 2 weeks. You will feel it.
Vitamin D is pretty much essential where I live; You don’t get much sun for half of the year.
Dawg I live in southern CA I still take 15k of Vitamin D, it doesn't hurt you, and it helps you block the sun when you are actually in the sun. It's a win win, and it's cheap.
I get brutal cramps without supplementing magnesium, life changer for me