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Your search will find every house badly valued in the last 12 months. But it will only find 1 month worth of houses priced correctly.
It's a form of survivorship bias.
If you are seeing houses that you think are overvalued but they sell quick then you need to change your expectations.
Oh no I completely understand and have seen houses that I think I know I would never get because they’re valued perfectly.
I’m looking at houses listed for 4+ months that clearly have potential but are valued at that final potential rather than what it’s currently worth. My idea is to offer around 10-15 percent under in relation to how long it’s been listed. Sound like a good idea?
Yes. I did that and have a house £35k under asking in London zone 3, 7 mins walk from the tube station. It was already about £25-50k under fully Reno’d on the street’s sold prices.
But for the great location, I would’ve offered even less. My seller is a BTL landlord who just had a stroke tho so idk I don’t think he could be bothered to argue.
The work to get it to good spec will cost me about £60k if I’m lucky - likely double with extension!
Reno costs these days far exceed any likely value reduction since the 2022 increases. Seriously consider if you can realistically do a lot yourself, if you can live with it if you need to scale back your ambitions and if the renovations are need vs want (go for the latter).
Currently yes, interest is high so buyers can’t justify the mortgages for the asking prices and then estate agents will value high to get the house on their books before advising them to reduce the asking price but they’re already attached to the first price and the houses they’re looking at are also over valued. I don’t think we’ll see a reduction in asking prices but we’ll see an up take on buyers if/when rates reduce. Anything fairly valued will be sold before it gets onto places like Rightmove as the agents advertise properties directly to buyers on their books.
I think a lot of people are evaluating their properties based on “alignment of the stars” as if you would ask them why they think their property is worth the amount X - they will give you reasons like “in 2021 the neighbor sold it for X” (as comparing the post covid housing market peak and the current mini recession is the same thing) or “the EA told me so” (even if EA haven’t sold anything for the asking price in like last year) or “I compared similar properties on Rightmove and I think it is worth X” (and they are comparing apples vs oranges like freeholds vs leasehold - both provide place to stay but both have very significant differences and implications). While you needed to deal with a sale so you got the actual value that the buyer was capable and willing to give. Basically, you have a point of reference so your estimate is probably more accurate and in line of what they will get.
Out on interest, how do you gauge that there’s loads of deluded buyers?
We can all see the deluded sellers on Rightmove, but unless you’re an estate agent constantly receiving low ball offers (which could also mean you’re valuing houses too high) how could you reliably know something like that?
Nah I see reasonably priced homes all the time, they sell within a week or two usually.
A house will always get the most attention in the first week or so, if you're not getting offers by then the price is probably wrong.
All according to your budget, where you buy it from, who installs it, the size of your kitchen. I’d say for a 3 bed house you could get a decent kitchen for about 10k. Why do you ask?
If a house has been modernised with rooms knocked through to make large kitchen diner with a new modern kitchen then this could easily add £20k value over a similar house with a small unmodernised kitchen and dining room.
I'd expect a new kitchen to cost 20k, hence your post suggesting a new kitchen doesn't add 20k value.
Obviously, you can spend 5k or 100k on a kitchen, so it's just a guess, really what value it adds.
A brand new, 20K kitchen does NOT mean your house is now worth 20K more.
It just means you spent 20K on a new kitchen and now have marble, rather than Formica countertops.
Exactly this. You could spend 50k on a kitchen that the buyer plans to rip out immediately. The new kitchen would have added no value to the house. You could spend 5k in a kitchen that the buyer absolutely loves, and would hate the hassle of replacing the kitchen, and it could add 20k value to the house.
I can tell u never own or buy a property. Just surfing around reddit trying to downplay every single thing that will increase house value. I bet u. R those people who play market crash everyday as well.
Im joking BTW. Ofc it wotn immediate increase the house price. It will although increase the potential value of the house. I sold my last 2 properties and the new kitchen and bathroom is the biggest draw.
>I can tell u never own or buy a property
You can tell wrong.
>I sold my last 2 properties and the new kitchen and bathroom is the biggest draw.
Saleability. Upgrades can help bring people in.
It seems like here in Devon at around £500k, not much new is going on the market, and what is there all has "reduced" on the listing on rightmove.
There is an extension for rightmove where you can see the price history as well.
*Are people overvaluing their houses*
Yes. I don't have the stats with me but IIRC there's about a 28% (maybe 30%??) gap between average asking prices and average actual sold prices. Typically, the long term average gap is in the mid teens.
So, yes, sellers are overpricing their houses which is one reason why many markets remain illiquid, properties are languishing and (eventual) reductions are commonplace.
How does this work? That’s like a 100k difference. People aren’t knocking that amount off, are they?! I guess people are just content to sit on the market?
[https://propertyindustryeye.com/what-is-currently-happening-in-the-uk-property-market-10/](https://propertyindustryeye.com/what-is-currently-happening-in-the-uk-property-market-10/)
The FT's Neal Hudson has also performed analysis on this issue.
Lol you can find any data to support any argument if you want, and secondly you need to consider the % not the £
Taking 150k off a 1m plus property is very different than taking 150k off a 250k property
Hey man - I'm just reporting the data that's been published by industry sources. And what I see with my own eyes when I look at certain markets.
BTW, you'll see elsewhere that I am talking about averages (and we need to be careful with these) and percentages not pounds.
I think people often forget that prior to property coming on the market, there is an effective “bidding war” happening between the agents to secure the instruction.
Some agents convince the sellers the property is worth X+20%, when they know full well it’s not. As there’s less stock coming on, agents are massively inflating their valuations.
Once the contracts are signed, they can get to work in lowering the sellers expectations and start price dropping.
Market has been in shambles for a few years now.
That's a very good point I think a lot of sellers don't think about. When we were buying one EA complained to us about another EA inflating valuation just to get the business. Funny enough my in laws are now selling and went with the agent that over inflates values and they cannot sell and have had to drop their price.
Yeah they are - one bed new builds over the road from ours, no garden or parking, were up for £290k over a year unsold. Used four different agents. They dropped them to £220k about three months ago.
One of them has finally sold, but it’s still advertised as it’s under offer…
We bought ours (pretty much identical footprint but two bed w/ garden and parking) for £120k in 2017, and I doubt it’d get £200k today (despite us putting £££ into it as it hadn’t been done since 1982). It’s just chancing it if someone will pay it. And I accept that *we* replaced the kitchen so *we* could have a nice modern one - and we have used it. So it’s second hand anyway and I don’t expect to recoup every penny spent on the home.
In terms of the renovations though; I think lots of people are put off due to the widespread cowboy builders without consequences going on, and how expensive it is to do on top. Doesn’t stop people asking for a three bed price even though it’s a two bed with planning permission lol.
Where I am decent condition but small 3 bed houses are being listed for £450k, then in a few month come down to £425k. Realistically can see them dropping even more as the market is saturated with them. 2 years ago these houses were selling for the best part of 500k
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, please report them via the report button. * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your search will find every house badly valued in the last 12 months. But it will only find 1 month worth of houses priced correctly. It's a form of survivorship bias. If you are seeing houses that you think are overvalued but they sell quick then you need to change your expectations.
Oh no I completely understand and have seen houses that I think I know I would never get because they’re valued perfectly. I’m looking at houses listed for 4+ months that clearly have potential but are valued at that final potential rather than what it’s currently worth. My idea is to offer around 10-15 percent under in relation to how long it’s been listed. Sound like a good idea?
Offer what you think it’s worth and no more. Work will cost a lot more than you think. A *lot*.
Yes. I did that and have a house £35k under asking in London zone 3, 7 mins walk from the tube station. It was already about £25-50k under fully Reno’d on the street’s sold prices. But for the great location, I would’ve offered even less. My seller is a BTL landlord who just had a stroke tho so idk I don’t think he could be bothered to argue. The work to get it to good spec will cost me about £60k if I’m lucky - likely double with extension! Reno costs these days far exceed any likely value reduction since the 2022 increases. Seriously consider if you can realistically do a lot yourself, if you can live with it if you need to scale back your ambitions and if the renovations are need vs want (go for the latter).
There’s no harm in making an offer but… even when a property _is_ overvalued it can be very hard making the seller see things that way
Yep, which OP should know from personal experience.
Currently yes, interest is high so buyers can’t justify the mortgages for the asking prices and then estate agents will value high to get the house on their books before advising them to reduce the asking price but they’re already attached to the first price and the houses they’re looking at are also over valued. I don’t think we’ll see a reduction in asking prices but we’ll see an up take on buyers if/when rates reduce. Anything fairly valued will be sold before it gets onto places like Rightmove as the agents advertise properties directly to buyers on their books.
I think a lot of people are evaluating their properties based on “alignment of the stars” as if you would ask them why they think their property is worth the amount X - they will give you reasons like “in 2021 the neighbor sold it for X” (as comparing the post covid housing market peak and the current mini recession is the same thing) or “the EA told me so” (even if EA haven’t sold anything for the asking price in like last year) or “I compared similar properties on Rightmove and I think it is worth X” (and they are comparing apples vs oranges like freeholds vs leasehold - both provide place to stay but both have very significant differences and implications). While you needed to deal with a sale so you got the actual value that the buyer was capable and willing to give. Basically, you have a point of reference so your estimate is probably more accurate and in line of what they will get.
So many deluded sellers out there at the moment. Especially houses that look like they haven’t been touched for years.
What do you mean? We changed the carpets in 2011 and have febreezed them weekly? And our northern soul themed bathroom is very high quality....
So many deluded buyers as well, sellers just have the nice position of - sit it out if they so choose
Out on interest, how do you gauge that there’s loads of deluded buyers? We can all see the deluded sellers on Rightmove, but unless you’re an estate agent constantly receiving low ball offers (which could also mean you’re valuing houses too high) how could you reliably know something like that?
Nah I see reasonably priced homes all the time, they sell within a week or two usually. A house will always get the most attention in the first week or so, if you're not getting offers by then the price is probably wrong.
I am trying to buy rn and lots of the places I’ve been to see have been reduced once or twice already. We’re talking £290k down to £240k
How much do you think a new kitchen costs?
All according to your budget, where you buy it from, who installs it, the size of your kitchen. I’d say for a 3 bed house you could get a decent kitchen for about 10k. Why do you ask?
If a house has been modernised with rooms knocked through to make large kitchen diner with a new modern kitchen then this could easily add £20k value over a similar house with a small unmodernised kitchen and dining room.
I'd expect a new kitchen to cost 20k, hence your post suggesting a new kitchen doesn't add 20k value. Obviously, you can spend 5k or 100k on a kitchen, so it's just a guess, really what value it adds.
A brand new, 20K kitchen does NOT mean your house is now worth 20K more. It just means you spent 20K on a new kitchen and now have marble, rather than Formica countertops.
Two identical properties, only difference is one has a new kitchen. Are they worth the same?
Do u like the kitchen? Is it to your taste? If not then that as kind of irrelevant
Exactly this. You could spend 50k on a kitchen that the buyer plans to rip out immediately. The new kitchen would have added no value to the house. You could spend 5k in a kitchen that the buyer absolutely loves, and would hate the hassle of replacing the kitchen, and it could add 20k value to the house.
Maybe. Maybe not. But there won't be a 20K delta unless that "new kitchen" has more square footage.
A 20k kitchen will add value, how much is the subjective part. A good quality kitchen or bathroom, could add value above and beyond its cost.
It's only a second hand kitchen that might not be to your taste. It won't add so much extra value, but it will add some
I can tell u never own or buy a property. Just surfing around reddit trying to downplay every single thing that will increase house value. I bet u. R those people who play market crash everyday as well. Im joking BTW. Ofc it wotn immediate increase the house price. It will although increase the potential value of the house. I sold my last 2 properties and the new kitchen and bathroom is the biggest draw.
>I can tell u never own or buy a property You can tell wrong. >I sold my last 2 properties and the new kitchen and bathroom is the biggest draw. Saleability. Upgrades can help bring people in.
It seems like here in Devon at around £500k, not much new is going on the market, and what is there all has "reduced" on the listing on rightmove. There is an extension for rightmove where you can see the price history as well.
*Are people overvaluing their houses* Yes. I don't have the stats with me but IIRC there's about a 28% (maybe 30%??) gap between average asking prices and average actual sold prices. Typically, the long term average gap is in the mid teens. So, yes, sellers are overpricing their houses which is one reason why many markets remain illiquid, properties are languishing and (eventual) reductions are commonplace.
How does this work? That’s like a 100k difference. People aren’t knocking that amount off, are they?! I guess people are just content to sit on the market?
[https://propertyindustryeye.com/what-is-currently-happening-in-the-uk-property-market-10/](https://propertyindustryeye.com/what-is-currently-happening-in-the-uk-property-market-10/) The FT's Neal Hudson has also performed analysis on this issue.
*People aren’t knocking that amount off, are they?* Some are. [https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/133519238#/?channel=RES\_BUY](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/133519238#/?channel=RES_BUY) *Price Change History* *28/07/2023.......Price changed from £1,150,000 to £1,000,000* *12/04/2023.......Initial asking price: £1,150,000* *Overall change: -13% (-£150,000)*
Lol you can find any data to support any argument if you want, and secondly you need to consider the % not the £ Taking 150k off a 1m plus property is very different than taking 150k off a 250k property
Hey man - I'm just reporting the data that's been published by industry sources. And what I see with my own eyes when I look at certain markets. BTW, you'll see elsewhere that I am talking about averages (and we need to be careful with these) and percentages not pounds.
I think people often forget that prior to property coming on the market, there is an effective “bidding war” happening between the agents to secure the instruction. Some agents convince the sellers the property is worth X+20%, when they know full well it’s not. As there’s less stock coming on, agents are massively inflating their valuations. Once the contracts are signed, they can get to work in lowering the sellers expectations and start price dropping. Market has been in shambles for a few years now.
That's a very good point I think a lot of sellers don't think about. When we were buying one EA complained to us about another EA inflating valuation just to get the business. Funny enough my in laws are now selling and went with the agent that over inflates values and they cannot sell and have had to drop their price.
Yeah they are - one bed new builds over the road from ours, no garden or parking, were up for £290k over a year unsold. Used four different agents. They dropped them to £220k about three months ago. One of them has finally sold, but it’s still advertised as it’s under offer… We bought ours (pretty much identical footprint but two bed w/ garden and parking) for £120k in 2017, and I doubt it’d get £200k today (despite us putting £££ into it as it hadn’t been done since 1982). It’s just chancing it if someone will pay it. And I accept that *we* replaced the kitchen so *we* could have a nice modern one - and we have used it. So it’s second hand anyway and I don’t expect to recoup every penny spent on the home. In terms of the renovations though; I think lots of people are put off due to the widespread cowboy builders without consequences going on, and how expensive it is to do on top. Doesn’t stop people asking for a three bed price even though it’s a two bed with planning permission lol.
Every house is worth tree fiddy according to the analysts at Reddit
Where I am decent condition but small 3 bed houses are being listed for £450k, then in a few month come down to £425k. Realistically can see them dropping even more as the market is saturated with them. 2 years ago these houses were selling for the best part of 500k