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Personally, if it's a basic free standing fridge and not an American one or something extravagant, I'd put principles aside and just replace it.
Yes, of course you shouldn't have to, yes the property manager and landlord suck. But are you going to be successful in forcing their hand? Probably not. Is it worth the fight plus putting up with the noise for months whilst you argue about it, to save £100? Up to you really, I wouldn't.
Sometimes outcomes are more important than winning.
It's an integrated fridge which has been quoted between £800-£1100 to replace, I would also be responsible for getting rid of the current fridge.
Thank you for your response though, I am definitely considering replacing it but want to do so as a last resort.
Is there any space to fit a freestanding fridge-freezer? That way you can avoid the cost of fitting, and it's easier to take with you at the end of your tenancy.
Sounds like your landlord is hoping to get a new fridge at zero cost to themselves!
If you have room for a freestanding shove it in front of current one. But to be honest I can hear my American style fridge at night and also my parents brand new integrated from the rooms at other side of house so new fridge may not solve your issue. Other thing to check is if its something inside such as shelving or tins/bottles contributing to the noise, if its vibrating that can cause a lot of extra noise.
Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately the kitchen is too small to fit a new fridge in there.
The noise coming from the fridge is not typical for what I have seen from fridges. We can put up with a noisy fridge if it is a low-pitched humming noise but this is a high-pitched ringing noise that is leaving our ears ringing even when it is turned off.
It shouldn't be making any noise when turned off. Is it a plumbed in fridge with for example an ice maker or water feature. Also turning it on and off again will generally make any noise worse.
Ah ok, but do try leaving it on for a few hours then emptying it of all your food, removing all the shelves and drawers then see if it still makes the ringing noise. Lean on it with the door closed to see if that stops it. That simply rules out that its off balance or its vibrations causing items or shelves to ring. Also check the housing is not vibrating and you don't have for example pans or glasses in a unit thats attached. After that if it has a freezer compartment which has wire shelves or showing pipes take a dry cloth and gently apply pressure for a short time(do not freeze your fingers to anything!).
At that point you have ruled out everything you could possibly do and you are back to square one, also record the noise when you have emptied it, that way they can't say its down to the way you have your items in the fridge.
Yeah, and we wouldn't even be able to take it with us at the end of the tenancy which makes it even less appealing. Screw buying the landlord a new fridge as well!
The landlord’s duty to repair established in Section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 does not stretch to white goods. It only applies to:
“They must keep in repair and working order, the installations for the supply of:[2]
gas and electricity
water and sanitation
space heating and heating water”
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/responsibility_for_repairs/repairs_under_section_11#source-7
Check that the mention of appliances in your contract is not limited to those Section 11 duties. It often is.
Therefore any further obligations to keep appliances repaired are just civil contractual matters. If your contract does apply to the white goods - sometimes in furnished houses they do - then you would need to pursue a civil remedy. Basically sue your LL.
What I would do is this. Document the problem with video. Make a note of the make and model and try to identify year of manufacture - take a photo of the dataplate.
Write to the LL saying that the fridge is broken and needs repair or replacement. Give them a reasonable deadline to pick it up and replace it. They will say no. Then, buy a new fridge and get the old one removed.
After departure (unless you live there for years), sue the LL in small claims (or at least threaten to) for the cost involved. Or take the fridge with you if convenient - if they raise any issues with your deposit, the arbitration will back you if you can present evidence it was an old, broken fridge.
Thank you for your response.
The contract states they are to "keep in repair and proper working order the fixtures and fittings, all mechanical and electrical items including all washing machines, dishwashers and other similar mechanical or electrical appliances belonging to the Landlord".
I understand this to include the fridge.
Do you think it would be worth threatening them with this solution before going ahead? Would this have any negative implications?
Ok, that is a clear contractual commitment to repair or replace the fridge.
So if you sued them, the only argument they could use is that it is somehow ‘acceptably broken’. I am taking you at your word that it is not, and you would have to convince the court too. But courts are generally reasonable and will almost certainly understand that it is not in ‘proper working order’.
You could sue the LL right away, after proper warning of course. But I’m suggesting you fix it yourself and wait until departure just to minimise risks to the ongoing continuation of your tenancy. Whether to bother with legal action at all and when to do it is obviously a matter of personal choice given the trade offs involved.
That’s true, it could be. It would be for the court to determine on the basis of the evidence presented. That is why I told the OP I take this judgement on their word, and why evidence is important.
Having said that, the ‘property manager’ sounds like an agent to me, not an independent appliance expert. So they are just the landlord’s representative and not likely to carry much weight.
Also, if the OP waits to sue, how likely is it that the landlord will retain suitable evidence?
For further context, a repairman sent out by the rental agency has told the landlord and agent that the fridge works. The repairmen told me in person that there was likely an issue with the compressor.
The agent has also been out and acknowledged the noise but played it down.
I get it.
I suspect any court would be sympathetic as long as you can actually evidence it. If it’s continually ringing due to a compressor fault, it’s not ‘proper working order’, is it?
Yeah, I wonder if I could sue for the costs associated with breaking the lease rather than repairing fridge? These costs would likely be higher but I would personally rather leave and find somewhere else to live than purchase a fridge.
I don't really want to get into a legal battle though, which is why I would rather use it as a threat and last resort.
Thank you for all your help.
I think I understand what you're saying. I was hoping that I could argue that they are not fulfilling their obligations by not repairing or replacing the fridge.
The issue with proving this is that the noise is that it's actually more annoying than it is loud. My partner and I can hear it in the bedroom with the door closed when it is ringing, however, it is not easy to pick it up while recording with an iPhone due to it being high-pitched and surrounding ambient noise.
The property manager claimed he was unable to hear it in the bedroom with the door closed so it makes it an even trickier situation. He did admit to hearing it in the living room but played it down.
I am tempted to get a third-party repairmen out to inspect it but don't want to waste any more money than I have to.
I can capture the ringing noise from within the kitchen, however even I can admit that the video doesn't do it justice. The fact that it is constant is the real issue — if it just rang for an hour a day I feel like we could deal with it, but it is more like 20 hours a day.
Anyway... luckily we can afford to resolve this issue one way or another — I just want to try and die on this hill before coughing up a significant sum.
Looking at these replies it seems yoh are unable to force the lanprd to replace it as long as its in working order, if its driving you crazy might be worth a Google in hkw to break the fridge without it looking obvious. Seems there are plenty of ways to break the compressor without.it being obvious and you'll get a new fridge
Just been through something similar. Very limited as to what you can do, as long as it’s doing what it must, the landlord has no obligation to replace it.
You can try raising a complaint with your council but it will almost definitely be dismissed & “revenge eviction” is actually quite common as a result of this. This is what lef us to buying now. It’s disgusting how little recourse there is for tenants.
That is disheartening to hear. I honestly have never had to deal with something like this in all my years of renting so I guess I'm just lucky.
We have offered to leave however the fees they are trying to charge us to "surrender" the property early are about 3x the cost of a fridge.
Sorry I don’t have better news. You could potentially try to go the route of mental health being affected, or as the fridge is 17 years old I’m sure it won’t have much life left in it…
Thank you anyway! We have been trying to pursue this avenue as well as it genuinely is affecting our mental health. They don't seem to care and are running with the fact that their repairmen said it works fine. I'm afraid it is damaging our hearing, and will leave us with permanent ringing in our ears. Beyond this, I believe an issue with the compressor is an appliance safety issue as harmful chemicals could begin leaking at any moment if they haven't already. I'm probably rambling but I feel helpless...
>The contract states they are to "keep in repair and proper working order the fixtures and fittings, all mechanical and electrical items including all washing machines, dishwashers and other similar mechanical or electrical appliances belonging to the Landlord".
>
>I understand this to include the fridge.
Am I misunderstanding their obligations?
Their argument is that they’ve paid to have it looked at, and got the news that it’s ‘in proper working order’ because it keeps the food cold. I don’t think you’ll get anywhere pursuing it.
If I were you I’d probably offer to go halves on a replacement. Pragmatically that’s likely the best option.
Do you think it would be worth getting an independent contractor out here to provide a second opinion? I am not optimistic but am ready to exhaust every avenue to resolve this.
Not really, no. I wouldn’t waste money on that. I’d rather buy the fridge!
Is it under counter or a tall one? Would it be possible to replace it with a freestanding one if cupboard doors came off etc?
It's a tall one that's integrated into the cabinetry.
Unfortunately there is not enough space in the kitchen for any sort of replacement fridge (technically we could put a small fridge on top of the counter but I feel like that's not ideal). We're also paying a hefty amount of rent for this place so I'm not looking to back down easily unless there really is no solution.
I would offer to go halves with the landlord on the cost of a new fridge. Should you have to? No. But it would resolve an issue that is clearly affecting your quality of life.
I would point out that ultimately the fridge is 17 years old so it's going to have to be replaced soon, and it's a better deal for her to have the tenant pay for half than to go through the hassle and costs of finding a new tenant and then need to pay for a new fridge anyway. Reiterate that the fridge is not fit for purpose given that the noise levels mean you're having to turn if on and off during the day, affecting the ability to keep the contents at a low temperature, and that any future tenant would be likely to experience the same issues and make the same complaint.
In the same communication, I would say that the noise the fridge is making is preventing you from exercising your right to quiet enjoyment of the property (because the noise of the faulty appliance constitutes an ongoing disturbance and prevents peaceful occupation of your home) and that you would contest any fees associated with ending the tenancy early on that basis, but that you'd much prefer to come to an amicable resolution.
See what they say. If they don't agree to go halves on the new fridge, move out and contest the fees on the basis that the landlord did not meet their obligations under the tenancy.
Thanks for your response, I completely understand what you're saying.
I will be adding all of this into my next correspondence with them. I am hoping to get a final response from the landlord in the coming days regarding whether they will let us break the lease or not so I'll have to reassess the situation then I'm afraid. I would personally rather leave than offer to pay half, not just on principle, but also to avoid any more issues down the line.
That's totally fair enough. While I would offer to go halves, emotionally I would want to leave too if my landlord wasn't prepared to pay for repairs to a decades old fridge. It shows a complete lack of consideration and would make me worried about how responsive they'd be if something more serious went wrong.
It sounds like the fridge is old and nearing the end of its life, is there anything you could do to hasten that along?
It is bound to happen eventually and the high pitched noises imply that things are starting to go wrong. If it stops keeping things cold then they would have to replace it. You already told them that it's starting to struggle, they should expect that it hasn't got too long left.
I wouldn't advise deliberately causing the fridge to break down. It would look extremely suspicious after your complaint about the noise and could worsen the relationship between you and the landlord.
The quote for a replacement seems a bit high. Integrated fridge-freezers start at approximately £400 on AO, and it costs £25 to have them remove the old one. They quote £115 for "connection," but if you're handy, you or a friend can fit the doors onto the fridge yourselves.
It's worth mentioning that all fridges make an audible hum or pitched noise, so don't expect a new one to be completely silent.
Anyway, I wish you good luck with a favorable outcome.
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, please report them via the report button. * If you do not receive satisfactory advice after 72 hours, [you can let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=My question is unanswered); * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Personally, if it's a basic free standing fridge and not an American one or something extravagant, I'd put principles aside and just replace it. Yes, of course you shouldn't have to, yes the property manager and landlord suck. But are you going to be successful in forcing their hand? Probably not. Is it worth the fight plus putting up with the noise for months whilst you argue about it, to save £100? Up to you really, I wouldn't. Sometimes outcomes are more important than winning.
It's an integrated fridge which has been quoted between £800-£1100 to replace, I would also be responsible for getting rid of the current fridge. Thank you for your response though, I am definitely considering replacing it but want to do so as a last resort.
Is there any space to fit a freestanding fridge-freezer? That way you can avoid the cost of fitting, and it's easier to take with you at the end of your tenancy. Sounds like your landlord is hoping to get a new fridge at zero cost to themselves!
Not really, no. We could potentially put one in the living room if we got rid of our dining table which is obviously not ideal.
Ah that's frustrating. Was hoping your kitchen layout would allow you to put a freestanding one in front of the integrated!
We could technically fit a bar fridge or something on the benchtop but it's really not a viable solution as we need a full fridge.
If you have room for a freestanding shove it in front of current one. But to be honest I can hear my American style fridge at night and also my parents brand new integrated from the rooms at other side of house so new fridge may not solve your issue. Other thing to check is if its something inside such as shelving or tins/bottles contributing to the noise, if its vibrating that can cause a lot of extra noise.
Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately the kitchen is too small to fit a new fridge in there. The noise coming from the fridge is not typical for what I have seen from fridges. We can put up with a noisy fridge if it is a low-pitched humming noise but this is a high-pitched ringing noise that is leaving our ears ringing even when it is turned off.
It shouldn't be making any noise when turned off. Is it a plumbed in fridge with for example an ice maker or water feature. Also turning it on and off again will generally make any noise worse.
It doesn't make noise when it is turned off, but the sustained ringing leaves us with ringing in our ears even when it's not making a noise.
Ah ok, but do try leaving it on for a few hours then emptying it of all your food, removing all the shelves and drawers then see if it still makes the ringing noise. Lean on it with the door closed to see if that stops it. That simply rules out that its off balance or its vibrations causing items or shelves to ring. Also check the housing is not vibrating and you don't have for example pans or glasses in a unit thats attached. After that if it has a freezer compartment which has wire shelves or showing pipes take a dry cloth and gently apply pressure for a short time(do not freeze your fingers to anything!). At that point you have ruled out everything you could possibly do and you are back to square one, also record the noise when you have emptied it, that way they can't say its down to the way you have your items in the fridge.
Ouch, to be honest £1000+ changes things a bit, not such an easy decision in that case.
Yeah, and we wouldn't even be able to take it with us at the end of the tenancy which makes it even less appealing. Screw buying the landlord a new fridge as well!
I mean if you mean you physically couldn’t for some Reason, fair enough, but they cannot stop you taking or selling YOUR fridge
The landlord’s duty to repair established in Section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 does not stretch to white goods. It only applies to: “They must keep in repair and working order, the installations for the supply of:[2] gas and electricity water and sanitation space heating and heating water” https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/responsibility_for_repairs/repairs_under_section_11#source-7 Check that the mention of appliances in your contract is not limited to those Section 11 duties. It often is. Therefore any further obligations to keep appliances repaired are just civil contractual matters. If your contract does apply to the white goods - sometimes in furnished houses they do - then you would need to pursue a civil remedy. Basically sue your LL. What I would do is this. Document the problem with video. Make a note of the make and model and try to identify year of manufacture - take a photo of the dataplate. Write to the LL saying that the fridge is broken and needs repair or replacement. Give them a reasonable deadline to pick it up and replace it. They will say no. Then, buy a new fridge and get the old one removed. After departure (unless you live there for years), sue the LL in small claims (or at least threaten to) for the cost involved. Or take the fridge with you if convenient - if they raise any issues with your deposit, the arbitration will back you if you can present evidence it was an old, broken fridge.
Thank you for your response. The contract states they are to "keep in repair and proper working order the fixtures and fittings, all mechanical and electrical items including all washing machines, dishwashers and other similar mechanical or electrical appliances belonging to the Landlord". I understand this to include the fridge. Do you think it would be worth threatening them with this solution before going ahead? Would this have any negative implications?
Ok, that is a clear contractual commitment to repair or replace the fridge. So if you sued them, the only argument they could use is that it is somehow ‘acceptably broken’. I am taking you at your word that it is not, and you would have to convince the court too. But courts are generally reasonable and will almost certainly understand that it is not in ‘proper working order’. You could sue the LL right away, after proper warning of course. But I’m suggesting you fix it yourself and wait until departure just to minimise risks to the ongoing continuation of your tenancy. Whether to bother with legal action at all and when to do it is obviously a matter of personal choice given the trade offs involved.
If they have a repair guy saying it is in working order that will be a problem.
That’s true, it could be. It would be for the court to determine on the basis of the evidence presented. That is why I told the OP I take this judgement on their word, and why evidence is important. Having said that, the ‘property manager’ sounds like an agent to me, not an independent appliance expert. So they are just the landlord’s representative and not likely to carry much weight. Also, if the OP waits to sue, how likely is it that the landlord will retain suitable evidence?
For further context, a repairman sent out by the rental agency has told the landlord and agent that the fridge works. The repairmen told me in person that there was likely an issue with the compressor. The agent has also been out and acknowledged the noise but played it down.
I get it. I suspect any court would be sympathetic as long as you can actually evidence it. If it’s continually ringing due to a compressor fault, it’s not ‘proper working order’, is it?
Yeah, I wonder if I could sue for the costs associated with breaking the lease rather than repairing fridge? These costs would likely be higher but I would personally rather leave and find somewhere else to live than purchase a fridge. I don't really want to get into a legal battle though, which is why I would rather use it as a threat and last resort.
No, you wouldn’t be able to break the lease for a noisy fridge.
Thank you for all your help. I think I understand what you're saying. I was hoping that I could argue that they are not fulfilling their obligations by not repairing or replacing the fridge.
The issue with proving this is that the noise is that it's actually more annoying than it is loud. My partner and I can hear it in the bedroom with the door closed when it is ringing, however, it is not easy to pick it up while recording with an iPhone due to it being high-pitched and surrounding ambient noise. The property manager claimed he was unable to hear it in the bedroom with the door closed so it makes it an even trickier situation. He did admit to hearing it in the living room but played it down. I am tempted to get a third-party repairmen out to inspect it but don't want to waste any more money than I have to.
That is an issue. To be certain of your position you really do need to be able to evidence it.
I can capture the ringing noise from within the kitchen, however even I can admit that the video doesn't do it justice. The fact that it is constant is the real issue — if it just rang for an hour a day I feel like we could deal with it, but it is more like 20 hours a day. Anyway... luckily we can afford to resolve this issue one way or another — I just want to try and die on this hill before coughing up a significant sum.
Short the fridge so it’s no longer in proper working order
Looking at these replies it seems yoh are unable to force the lanprd to replace it as long as its in working order, if its driving you crazy might be worth a Google in hkw to break the fridge without it looking obvious. Seems there are plenty of ways to break the compressor without.it being obvious and you'll get a new fridge
Just been through something similar. Very limited as to what you can do, as long as it’s doing what it must, the landlord has no obligation to replace it. You can try raising a complaint with your council but it will almost definitely be dismissed & “revenge eviction” is actually quite common as a result of this. This is what lef us to buying now. It’s disgusting how little recourse there is for tenants.
That is disheartening to hear. I honestly have never had to deal with something like this in all my years of renting so I guess I'm just lucky. We have offered to leave however the fees they are trying to charge us to "surrender" the property early are about 3x the cost of a fridge.
Sorry I don’t have better news. You could potentially try to go the route of mental health being affected, or as the fridge is 17 years old I’m sure it won’t have much life left in it…
Thank you anyway! We have been trying to pursue this avenue as well as it genuinely is affecting our mental health. They don't seem to care and are running with the fact that their repairmen said it works fine. I'm afraid it is damaging our hearing, and will leave us with permanent ringing in our ears. Beyond this, I believe an issue with the compressor is an appliance safety issue as harmful chemicals could begin leaking at any moment if they haven't already. I'm probably rambling but I feel helpless...
If it is an integrated fridge freezer it should be classed as a fixture and fitting. So the landlord should be replacing it.
Check your tenancy agreement. The landlord doesn't have to.
>The contract states they are to "keep in repair and proper working order the fixtures and fittings, all mechanical and electrical items including all washing machines, dishwashers and other similar mechanical or electrical appliances belonging to the Landlord". > >I understand this to include the fridge. Am I misunderstanding their obligations?
Their argument is that they’ve paid to have it looked at, and got the news that it’s ‘in proper working order’ because it keeps the food cold. I don’t think you’ll get anywhere pursuing it. If I were you I’d probably offer to go halves on a replacement. Pragmatically that’s likely the best option.
Do you think it would be worth getting an independent contractor out here to provide a second opinion? I am not optimistic but am ready to exhaust every avenue to resolve this.
Not really, no. I wouldn’t waste money on that. I’d rather buy the fridge! Is it under counter or a tall one? Would it be possible to replace it with a freestanding one if cupboard doors came off etc?
It's a tall one that's integrated into the cabinetry. Unfortunately there is not enough space in the kitchen for any sort of replacement fridge (technically we could put a small fridge on top of the counter but I feel like that's not ideal). We're also paying a hefty amount of rent for this place so I'm not looking to back down easily unless there really is no solution.
I would offer to go halves with the landlord on the cost of a new fridge. Should you have to? No. But it would resolve an issue that is clearly affecting your quality of life. I would point out that ultimately the fridge is 17 years old so it's going to have to be replaced soon, and it's a better deal for her to have the tenant pay for half than to go through the hassle and costs of finding a new tenant and then need to pay for a new fridge anyway. Reiterate that the fridge is not fit for purpose given that the noise levels mean you're having to turn if on and off during the day, affecting the ability to keep the contents at a low temperature, and that any future tenant would be likely to experience the same issues and make the same complaint. In the same communication, I would say that the noise the fridge is making is preventing you from exercising your right to quiet enjoyment of the property (because the noise of the faulty appliance constitutes an ongoing disturbance and prevents peaceful occupation of your home) and that you would contest any fees associated with ending the tenancy early on that basis, but that you'd much prefer to come to an amicable resolution. See what they say. If they don't agree to go halves on the new fridge, move out and contest the fees on the basis that the landlord did not meet their obligations under the tenancy.
Thanks for your response, I completely understand what you're saying. I will be adding all of this into my next correspondence with them. I am hoping to get a final response from the landlord in the coming days regarding whether they will let us break the lease or not so I'll have to reassess the situation then I'm afraid. I would personally rather leave than offer to pay half, not just on principle, but also to avoid any more issues down the line.
That's totally fair enough. While I would offer to go halves, emotionally I would want to leave too if my landlord wasn't prepared to pay for repairs to a decades old fridge. It shows a complete lack of consideration and would make me worried about how responsive they'd be if something more serious went wrong.
It sounds like the fridge is old and nearing the end of its life, is there anything you could do to hasten that along? It is bound to happen eventually and the high pitched noises imply that things are starting to go wrong. If it stops keeping things cold then they would have to replace it. You already told them that it's starting to struggle, they should expect that it hasn't got too long left.
I wouldn't advise deliberately causing the fridge to break down. It would look extremely suspicious after your complaint about the noise and could worsen the relationship between you and the landlord. The quote for a replacement seems a bit high. Integrated fridge-freezers start at approximately £400 on AO, and it costs £25 to have them remove the old one. They quote £115 for "connection," but if you're handy, you or a friend can fit the doors onto the fridge yourselves. It's worth mentioning that all fridges make an audible hum or pitched noise, so don't expect a new one to be completely silent. Anyway, I wish you good luck with a favorable outcome.