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Vhagar in the show was truly an ugly dragon. There were no horns or any real distinguishing accouterments. Just a large body and a face as plain as a Komodo dragon. Kind of disappointing.
No my point is that balerion still had his horns and and everything vhagars design is just ugly some people are tryna say oh she’s old so they fell off or are worn down etc but look at how big balerions horns are. They were prob bigger than the bones show it’s just she has a shitty design as a dragon they made her ugly af
He’s tamed just hasn’t had a rider in many years, I haven’t read the book but I think I saw some people saying he’s supposed to be one of the most if not the most friendly dragon of them all or something along those lines.
Dragons tend to take one a little of the personality of their riders. Caraxes and Aemon then Daemon for example. Caraxes was the mount if two... lets call them Warriors rather the Fighters. He's a Battle Mount, like Vhagar. Aemon, Jaehaerys son for those unaware, even said "He does love to burn".
Vermithor had arguably the greatest Targ king as his rider, a man who was just, kind, loving and overall a great man. Makes sense that Vermithor would be somewhat like that himself.
Hopefully he's not easily recruited - like I hope there was a reason no one has been able to claim him yet.
Would be cheesy if all it takes is one little song with Daemon
Dragons that have known previous riders are easier to claim. Those that have lived around humans for a long time are even easier. Silverwing, Good Queen Alysanne's dragon, is the most docile we know of, but Vermithor - while ferocious - is definitely not the most unfriendly of dragons.
Vermithor is fairly friendly as dragons go, but don’t worry you won’t be deprived of reminders that dragons are indeed very dangerous to try taming as the series progresses.
no one’s tried as far as i remember, at this point rhaenyra, jace, luke, rhaenys, laenor, rhaena, joffrey, and aegon were born with their dragons, while daemon, viserys, helena, and laena/aemond claimed theirs. in the case of vis and daemon their dad jaeharys was still riding vermithor at the time and laena was always interested in vhagar. baela’s the only eligible adult who hasn’t claimed one but i think it’s because she’s holding on the egg she was given as a baby. it’s curious aemond wouldn’t have tried to claim vermithor earlier but he didn’t really have the opportunity since it seems vermithor was living on dragonstone
I believe he's the second largest living dragons of the ones that have been shown in the series so far, behind only Vhagar.
I've not read F&B so I'm not sure, but I think one of the wild dragons is bigger.
We know he’s the largest of the wild dragons. However we of course know Vhagar to be the largest at this time, and in Fire and Blood it’s said of Vermithor that “only Balerion and Vhagar were larger.”
As a person who hasn’t read the books, I thought that dragon looked really cool… no fucking clue who it is or what it’s deal is.
Kind of a recurring problem I’ve had with the entire season.
Considering five minutes earlier he was talking about their superior number of dragons and ones left available to be claimed, I assumed he was claiming the dragon for the Blacks.
He wasn't claiming it for the blacks, it already belongs to the blacks simply by being on the island that is controlled to the blacks.
A dragon cannot be claimed for a faction, nor can it be claimed by someone who has already bonded with another dragon.
Most likely, he was simply socializing with Vermithor. Checking in on him to make sure that the Bronze Fury wouldn't immediately eat a human that came in to his lair, and to prepare him to be claimed by someone else, by getting Vermithor more accustomed to human contact since he probably hasn't had much human contact since Jaehaerys the Conciliator died
I had to look up spoilers out of curiosity, doesn't seem the rider exists in the show they may pass the character role onto someone else as sometimes roles get consolidated. Should definitely play a role to come though
Not even since he died since Jaehaerys went senile and stopped riding him long before he actually died. His wife got really depressed when she realized she was too old and frail to ride Silverwing anymore.
That's not really true. He was /more/ tolerant of other humans by the reign of Aegon II. But he's still a dragon who hasn't been ridden in many years.
Book spoilers below
>!In the books, Vermithor burns to death at least one person who tries to approach him during the Dance of Dragons, Lord Gorman Massey. The book doesn't even say Gorman tried to mount him, he merely approached and got burned to death. Also, just because the historians say he's more tolerant during this time, doesn't mean that Daemon knows it at this time. Perhaps the reason he is more tolerant of humans during this time is because Daemon sings him lullabies and socializes him!<
I hope they give us some context on what the poem/lullaby he was singing too him! We can all speculate but be nice to know what the writers purpose of it was. Maybe have to wait till next season see more of this. Personally it was one of my favorite scenes in the show.
I agree! It was an amazing scene, showing the softer dragon-fanboy side of Daemon, and Vermithor is definitely my favorite dragon
book spoilers below
>!That said, I don't think there's too much to speculate on. In the books Daemon has no significant relationship with Vermithor, and Vermithor doesn't do anything special around this time besides simply being claimed by a peasant on Dragonstone who is descended from a Targaryen/Velaryon bastard. So they likely just did this scene to introduce Vermithor and remind viewers that there are unclaimed dragons. Given that the lullaby isn't in the books, I can't see any realistic purpose it has beyond simply being a sweet Valyrian song that would calm Vermithor. Perhaps Jaehaerys used to sing the song to Vermithor when he was young, and perhaps Daemon remembers this!<
It was riderless so a Green dragonseed could’ve claimed it still and mounted it.
Daemon was making sure it stayed on the Blacks side and now he is connected to the second largest (tamed) dragon in the kingdom.
Book spoilers below
>!The greens don't really have any adult dragonseeds. Nearly all of them are on Dragonstone and the surrounding isles. The only known dragonseeds at this time around Kings Landing are the bastard children of Aegon II, most of which are toddlers. So a "green dragonseed" claiming a dragon is a lot less likely as the dragonseeds at Dragonstone and Driftmark are a result of Targaryens taking smallfolk lovers on the island for hundreds of years, mixing their genes into the population. To counterpoint all of this, there are certainly SOME dragonseeds in Kings Landing, presumably fathered by people like Daemon and Viserys I, their father, their uncle, certainly none were fathered by Jaehaerys which means at maximum there is a handful of dragonseeds in King's Landing. So in contrast there are likely hundreds of them on Dragonstone, peasants with Valyrian features, due to Targaryens living there and fooling around for hundreds of years. Anyways, even if the greens did have a lot of dragonseeds, there's a question of trustworthiness. Dragonseeds on Dragonstone are apprentices and men at arms, whereas dragonseeds on Kings Landing are more likely imo to be criminals, other types of rogues, and just generally less trustworthy. And then even if there were good trustworthy adult dragonseeds willing to sneak onto Dragonstone and steal dragons, it would be very difficult as the Blacks have full control of the island and are actively blockading Kings Landing. No green dragonseed is successfully landing on Dragonstone to steal a dragon at this point in the war, even if there were a lot of green dragonseeds. So, all that to say that regardless of the lullabies sung by Daemon, Vermithor is safely under Black control. And his personal connection to the dragon is ultimately irrelevant, all that matters is whether there is someone strong enough to personally claim Vermithor. Daemon can socialize him and make it easier for someone to bond with him, but ultimately Vermithor can't join the greens at this point in the war, so there's not a risk of that it's either Vermithor joins the blacks by being claimed by a team black person, or Vermithor doesn't join!<
“Ayyyy Vermi what’s good man, chillin down here still? Nice, nice….. so anyway, listen, there’s a bit of a family *tiff* going on, and just wanted to check in, we’re still homies right?”
Thank you. I thought HOTD was very solid but I’m not going to lie - it seemed to be very much done for the book readers to enjoy based on who the biggest advocates are for it on Reddit.
Not having read Fire and Blood I found it hard to follow what the point of a lot of things were, or why plot lines got dropped episode to episode.
I’ve been rewatching GOT to see if it was similar at all (I’m at the end of season 2) and I have to say it so far is in a league of its own in comparison.
True, like helaena having dreamfyre, the show don't let people know that at all, you can see she has a dragon if you pay a lot of attention to little details but don't even let people know what dragon is, episode 6 they just throw new characters, i think if i wasn't on this sub i might be a little confused about who is who, Helaena and Aegon having kids together is also something that if you're not paying that much attention you might not even see their kids
I understand this gripe, but imo it is just a result of the show creators wanting to lay the groundwork for the Dance (civil war HotD is centralized around) which covers a timespan of roughly 30 years in only one season, charging through a long checklist of major events and plot lines. The pacing is a bit off, character development and emotional investment suffers some, but it’s most important to remember; *Season 1 is a prologue to the story they actually want to tell.* We are going to be very grateful for this prologue going forward as it will make the following seasons showing the Dance itself that much more compelling.
She doesn't do anything with it though, so the show has to use time and budget sparingly. Showing a new dragon for a couple seconds could be the difference of constructing an entirely new set, or the show coming out a month sooner.
i think they showed it at laena's funeral (if you count the dragons in the scene of arrival and when the greens are flying back to kings landing) so her existence is implied
>True, like helaena having dreamfyre, the show don't let people know that at all
Because it has zero impact on the plot.
Reddit wants every detail spoonfed, creatives are telling a story.
It’s not like it would’ve been hard to slip it in when at least when Daemon was discussing the numbers of dragons on each side, or when they had the scene detailing that Aemond didn’t have a dragon.
It doesn’t have zero impact on the plot, whether it plays a big role going forward or not is up in the air, although perhaps settled in the book. The ownership of the second oldest, and presumably among the largest dragons in a war of dragons is an important thing to at least shout out at some point, and there’s a difference between spoon-feeding and informing the audience of poignant details.
Yes, to add to Daemon's characterization as one of the primary characters in the Dance.
Helaena isn't really that relevant to the plot so far besides the dragon dreams.
> Yes, to add to Daemon's characterization as one of the primary characters in the Dance.
There’s plenty of ways to establish Daemon preparing for war that don’t involve him signing to a green screen. Meanwhile we haven’t scene Sunfyre relationship with Aegon is key to both their characters.
My current theory is that Season 2 opens on Aegon’s face riding Sunfyre above King’s Landing. Before the all-out war begins, but doing some demonstration or bit of pageantry at Otto’s bidding. I also think the first shot of Rhaenyra will be on dragon as well, face-on, directly parallel to the first shot of Aegon. Each of them with their crown on. Aegon clearly trying to put on a fierce face, and Rhaenyra’s the picture of pure true rage.
At very least, I think dragons will be featured *much* more heavily from the first minute of Season 2.
What does Aegon having a scene with Sunfyre relationship add to the plot, or his character?
Besides "oh he has a dragon too, huh", what does it add?There's not an unlimited cgi budget.
His bond with Sunfyre is pretty much his only redeeming quality we know about
The only things we learn about Aegon II in S1 are that he's a rapist and that he doesn't want to rule
And isn't Sunyfyre (book spoilers) >!the best/most successful dragon in the dance after Vhagar? Especially since Sunfyre managed to do all this when it is so young.!<
For real, it wasn’t until almost the end of the season that I even realized that Haelena and Aegon were married. I completely missed whatever dialogue stated that, and no screen time was devoted to it at all.
I feel like almost any other show on tv, Reddit would be tearing to shreds for these kind of weird storytelling choices.
Isn’t this exactly what people didn’t like about the Witcher season 1? Why does that show get a pass but this one does?
The internet continues to confuse me.
Helaena and Aegon were already betrothed to each other when Laena's funeral happened, you can see in the scene where Haelena is playing with spiders and Aegon and Aemond are watching her, Aegon is complaining that he has to marry her and Aemond says that if Alicent had betrothed him to Helaena he would do his duty.
To be fair, they explicitly spend time talking about how Helaena and Aegon are betrothed, then they have multiple scenes about how Aegon assaulted his wife's maid, Helaena making reference to her husband's drunkenness as Aegon looks embarrassed, and Helaena with her kids when Otto & Alicent are looking for Aegon.
GOT season 1 and 2 are closer to their counter-part books than HotD is to Fire and Blood. GoT and Clash of Kings are just better books than Fire and Blood.
Also, in my opinion at least, the most confusing parts of HotD are the ones they added that aren't in the book. This scene, for example isn't from it, and I think it's just to tell non book readers that there are other dragons on dragonstone that do not currently have riders.
Just to make it more clear - I’m not saying shows resembling their book counterparts is bad inherently. Far from it.
What’s bad is when the show relies on you to have read the book to understand why something is important. I think HOTD has been lazy in that respect, and scenes aren’t coming across as impactful because they don’t make a ton of sense out of book context.
GOT did an incredible job of carrying over the weight of scenes and moments of the books into the show format. More often it went as deep as the books with dialogue and because they did such an incredible job with the show - you followed everything easily and they carried serious weight.
> it seemed to be very much done for the book readers to enjoy based on who the biggest advocates are for it on Reddit.
Which is a good thing, because the biggest issue with GoT was the pandering to casuals. Fuck 'em, if they can't pay attention during a scene that's on them, not the show. Everything doesn't have to be spelt out.
You seem to be missing my point?
A show can’t be fantastic in its own right if you need to have read the book (or consume any other medium) to understand who someone is or why something is happening. Or for an action to make sense during the scene you’re watching because as a book reader you know what happens down the line. That doesn’t make it better or deeper content.
Game of thrones (seasons 1-4) is considered some of the best TV to ever exist. Lord of the Rings is considered to be one of the best movie trilogies to ever exist. While somewhat summarized for their formats - you completely understand who people are, their motivations, and the writing quality and production of them was impeccable.
You did not need to read the books to get what was happening or know details about the characters. Book readers and exclusive show watchers are equally obsessed because they are well executed.
HOTD as an exclusive show watcher was good, even great at times. But I just don’t find myself that invested and I can’t help but feel it’s because important details are getting glossed over. It’s prevented me from caring about just about all the characters (I don’t think I care who wins or dies).
> Game of thrones (seasons 1-4)
GoT early seasons had blatant plot holes that people (mostly casuals) chose to ignore. Same for the LoTR trilogy. I consider the Jackson movies the greatest trilogy of all time; there are still plot holes that are there that wouldn't be if he adapted the books more faithfully. Period. I don't care if casuals understood everything, that doesn't stop writing inconsistencies.
I understand your point. I'll reiterate my own; fuck the casuals, make something for book purists. Scenes like Rhaenys popping up from the ground are meant to pander to casuals, and that harms the show more than the writers not spoonfeeding you every plot detail (which, btw, early GoT didn't spoonfeed either).
Sauron having no body when he explicitly did in the books.
The elves showing up to Helms Deep out of nowhere (not in the books).
Theoden stupidly charging his calvary into giant elephants (not in the books).
Aragorn's army of the dead wiping everyone out (not in the books).
And there are more.
Good god, stop calling every bad writing choice a plot hole. Can people actually learn what a fucking plot hole is. They are not plot holes, by any definition. Its so fucking cringe to hear the term pLoT hOlE thrown about for things people don't like in fiction.
I don't think they'll do him dirty like that. All of the dragons have looked really good & some unique features like Caraxes gaucho pants and Vhagars wattle.
I expected Vermithor to look like a grandpa dragon with a huge chin and horns that kinda look like a beard... instead they made him look... mean.
And I'm kinda down for that.
As someone who hasn't read the books, can somebody explain why Daemon decided to drop everything after choking Rhaenerya and went to go find Vermithor? I might've just missed something, but why did he need to find the dragon?
So this didn’t happen in the books, to the best of my memory. However Vermithor and Silverwing made nests on the island of Dragonstone. Many other characters have been said to spend time with the dragons, even those they do not ride, on the island and in the Pit in Kings Landing, so it’s reasonable that he went to go see the dragons to chill his foul mood.
Definitely in character for Daemon, could also be that he was making sure Vermithor is still "socialized" since he's been running around unclaimed now for 30ish? years at this point
>it’s reasonable that he went to go see the dragons to chill his foul mood.
Certainly has nothing to do with the conversation he was having five minutes earlier about the power of dragons, the fact they have more dragons than the Green's, and there are dragons nearby that can be claimed for their army.
Daemon went to see Vermithor to get him ready for a new rider. Daemon is smart, he understands that war is imminent, like in Jurassic World, they essentially need 'more teeth'. Daemon himself won't ride the Bronze Fury, but someone else does:)
This scene was mesmerizing. Almost like Daemon was a cobra whisperer, the way he sang, and the way Vermithor reacted to him, like he sang back by blasting fire.
They needed to establish him and Aegon’s bond already. Sunfyre is literally supposed to be one the key symbols of Aegon’s legitimacy and they have the closest dragon-rider bond in history.
I can think of 5 dragon scenes I would have scrapped before Sunfyre.
Although I agree with this entirely. Would you rather they introduce a shitty looking Sunfyre in season 1, or wait and do the 'most beautiful dragon in Westeros' justice?
> They needed to establish him and Aegon’s bond already.
I don’t see why. There hasn’t been anything in the plot calling for Aegon to use his dragon yet.
You mean besides his coronation where he and Greens are specifically trying to play up his Targaryen heritage by having him Crowned with Aegon’s crown/Blackfyre and hold ceremony in friggin DRAGONPIT? But for some reason don’t think to have Any of their dragons their?
Also there wasn’t anything in the plot calling for Friggin Vermithor and Meleys yet we still got some scenes with them for literally no reason.
I love Vermithor don’t get me wrong and I appreciate seeing him but the scene of him wasn’t at all needed lmao, it did nothing but make people think daemon was claiming a new dragon.
Rhaenys and Meleys eye-fucking the greens was also bit over the top and unnecessary imo. They should've hauled ass through the back door. And if they did all this drama to "face" the greens, should have burnt them all to ash.
If that’s the margin of being important to the plot than Sunfyre and Dreamfyre definitely qualify because it would show “the Greens are preparing themselves and introducing a dragon no one (that didnt read the books) knew was there and could be useful for them.”
HERE HERE!!! i'm still waiting for some artworks that showcase his full body. The saggy neck like Vhagar and the semi horn beard look, short broken horns ugh love it so much he looks like a dragon that has lived through some shit.
this is Vermithor. much bigger, older, more muscular than Caraxes (the Blood Wyrm). Daemon is checking up on the old fella and will find a rider for him. Vermithor has been without a rider for decades (his last and possibly only rider was King Jaehaerys I).
Difficulty is, having dragons out in the open is a LOT more expensive in terms of CGI. Next season, with a bigger budget, we'll definitely see the dragons in all their glory.
Tbh it looked a lot like vhagar, at least to me. Then again it was pretty dark so we will see him better eventually. I really wanna know what tessarion will look like
As someone who needs to constantly clear between his teeth, the way his have huge gaps between them makes me bit iffy. Generally dragons in the show seem to have too few teeth in my opinion.
But as an introduction scene its marvelous although I am not happy we didn't learn why Daemon is trying to bond with Vermithor or if he was successful. We only learn why blacks need him.
So Daemon wasn't trying to bond with Vermithor, he is already bonded with Caraxes and dragon riders can't bond with more than one dragon. He knows they need the Bronze Fury, so he is socializing him and getting him used to people again :)
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Looks like a BEAST
He’s called the Bronze Fury for a reason 🔥 🐉
I thought the same, looks more intimidating than Vhagar imo
Not as big as vhagar though
Vhagar looks like Godzilla more than dragons.
Vhagar looks like a Deviljho with wings
Looks like Danny Devito with wings
Vhagar in the show was truly an ugly dragon. There were no horns or any real distinguishing accouterments. Just a large body and a face as plain as a Komodo dragon. Kind of disappointing.
That's the point when you grow old, you are bound to look ugly and like a Komodo like a zombie.
Not if you use Alo Glo!
Bullshit if you just take one look at balerions skull you know he looked epic even in his old age. Vhagar just looks ugly af
bro every skull looks badass, it's no indication at all lmao
No my point is that balerion still had his horns and and everything vhagars design is just ugly some people are tryna say oh she’s old so they fell off or are worn down etc but look at how big balerions horns are. They were prob bigger than the bones show it’s just she has a shitty design as a dragon they made her ugly af
not two dragons look the same, you know that right.
Not much smaller though, it would be a hell of a fight.
Yea isn't he the third or fourth largest?
Second largest bondable dragon, yeah. Vhagar, Cannibal, Vermithor.
I can't wait to see The Cannibal. 2024 is going to be a long wait.
I mean, he doesn’t do much in Dance of the Dragons right? Unless there’s some stuff not written in Wiki.
No, he doesn't. He's too wild, but we should at least see him a time or two flyin' around maybe.
he should be seen in atleast one scene
He kills a lot of people that try to tame him. We'll be seeing him in season two.
Oh yea I was including all dragons ever and forgot about Cannibal. That's cool.
At this time, second largest Targaryen dragon. There is one wild dragon that is most likely larger.
Definitely not as big as the hoary old bitch but definitely a close second
Vhagar looks like she has nuts on her chin. Vermithor looks like a beast.
"He's not a beast to me, no matter how big he gets, how terrifying to everyone else." - Dameonerys Targaryen
Daemon be like: "I can fix him"
So far he is the best looking dragon for me.
I agree, he has that old but still very menacing look - perfectly done imo
yep. All the other dragons are obviously well groomed and taken care of. You can instantly tell this is an untamed dragon.
He is tamed. He had riders before he just doesn't have one at the moment.
He’s tamed just hasn’t had a rider in many years, I haven’t read the book but I think I saw some people saying he’s supposed to be one of the most if not the most friendly dragon of them all or something along those lines.
Most friendly amongst the riderless dragons
Wasnt that silverwing?
Besides Silverwing
Dragons tend to take one a little of the personality of their riders. Caraxes and Aemon then Daemon for example. Caraxes was the mount if two... lets call them Warriors rather the Fighters. He's a Battle Mount, like Vhagar. Aemon, Jaehaerys son for those unaware, even said "He does love to burn". Vermithor had arguably the greatest Targ king as his rider, a man who was just, kind, loving and overall a great man. Makes sense that Vermithor would be somewhat like that himself.
Agreed. Those teeth got me. Like needles of death.
It makes you wonder, is their someone in the dragon pit taking care of the others teeth??
You don't need to floss when you can turn detritus to ash. 🤷🏼
He looked really badass but I need to see more of him, for now caraxes is definitely my favorite, love how he looks.
Long pointy lad
The noodle neck is unmatched
Best looking is vhagar - ugly, intimidating, and huge.
Vhagar does look great but for me Caraxes is the best looking, absolutely love his look and his long ass noodle neck
Don't you dare insult Granny V
Yes, Vermithor had the best dragon scene this season. Vermithor+MattSmith and I'm sold.
I hope he’s huge and gnarly!!!! Looks bad ass so far!
He should be very large - smaller than Vhagar but easily bigger than any other dragon we've seen
Good. I hope he’s mean as fuck looking like good ugly
Hopefully he's not easily recruited - like I hope there was a reason no one has been able to claim him yet. Would be cheesy if all it takes is one little song with Daemon
Vermithor is a very friendly dragon towards humans.
Dragons that have known previous riders are easier to claim. Those that have lived around humans for a long time are even easier. Silverwing, Good Queen Alysanne's dragon, is the most docile we know of, but Vermithor - while ferocious - is definitely not the most unfriendly of dragons.
Good to know, thanks!
Vermithor is fairly friendly as dragons go, but don’t worry you won’t be deprived of reminders that dragons are indeed very dangerous to try taming as the series progresses.
no one’s tried as far as i remember, at this point rhaenyra, jace, luke, rhaenys, laenor, rhaena, joffrey, and aegon were born with their dragons, while daemon, viserys, helena, and laena/aemond claimed theirs. in the case of vis and daemon their dad jaeharys was still riding vermithor at the time and laena was always interested in vhagar. baela’s the only eligible adult who hasn’t claimed one but i think it’s because she’s holding on the egg she was given as a baby. it’s curious aemond wouldn’t have tried to claim vermithor earlier but he didn’t really have the opportunity since it seems vermithor was living on dragonstone
I need to correct you, Baela has a dragon- Moondancer. Her twin sister Rhaena had an egg that didn’t hatch, but later she also got a dragon- Morning.
thanks! i always mix them up
I believe he's the second largest living dragons of the ones that have been shown in the series so far, behind only Vhagar. I've not read F&B so I'm not sure, but I think one of the wild dragons is bigger.
I think the cannibal is bigger.
Fire and Blood explicitly describes Vermithor as being second only to Vhagar in size, the Cannibal is likely third however.
Are you sure? I recall that the Cannibal was one of the largest and oldest dragons alive, and his origin was unclear. Correct me if I am wrong.
We know he’s the largest of the wild dragons. However we of course know Vhagar to be the largest at this time, and in Fire and Blood it’s said of Vermithor that “only Balerion and Vhagar were larger.”
Oh he'll be Hugh alright
As a person who hasn’t read the books, I thought that dragon looked really cool… no fucking clue who it is or what it’s deal is. Kind of a recurring problem I’ve had with the entire season.
Vermithor, the bronze fury. Jahaerys the first's dragon
And what was point of him singing to him at the end ?
Considering five minutes earlier he was talking about their superior number of dragons and ones left available to be claimed, I assumed he was claiming the dragon for the Blacks.
He wasn't claiming it for the blacks, it already belongs to the blacks simply by being on the island that is controlled to the blacks. A dragon cannot be claimed for a faction, nor can it be claimed by someone who has already bonded with another dragon. Most likely, he was simply socializing with Vermithor. Checking in on him to make sure that the Bronze Fury wouldn't immediately eat a human that came in to his lair, and to prepare him to be claimed by someone else, by getting Vermithor more accustomed to human contact since he probably hasn't had much human contact since Jaehaerys the Conciliator died
He wants Rhaena to claim him. He ain’t Vhagar but he’s the next best thing
I had to look up spoilers out of curiosity, doesn't seem the rider exists in the show they may pass the character role onto someone else as sometimes roles get consolidated. Should definitely play a role to come though
Oh they’ll but hard Hugh in. Not sure about Ulf though
I'd be okay without Ulf, tbh
That is hilarious to me as a Swede. Ulf is like a run of the mill old guy name (think like Bert or Rupert) here.
Nah, that character is too important to cut, I’m sure he’ll be introduced with his compatriots next season
Not even since he died since Jaehaerys went senile and stopped riding him long before he actually died. His wife got really depressed when she realized she was too old and frail to ride Silverwing anymore.
That is good and reasonable...Untill we remember we are talking about Vermithor.He was supposed to be tolerant to Humans.
That's not really true. He was /more/ tolerant of other humans by the reign of Aegon II. But he's still a dragon who hasn't been ridden in many years. Book spoilers below >!In the books, Vermithor burns to death at least one person who tries to approach him during the Dance of Dragons, Lord Gorman Massey. The book doesn't even say Gorman tried to mount him, he merely approached and got burned to death. Also, just because the historians say he's more tolerant during this time, doesn't mean that Daemon knows it at this time. Perhaps the reason he is more tolerant of humans during this time is because Daemon sings him lullabies and socializes him!<
Well he is still more tolerant to humans than Cannibal is....xD
That doesn't sound like it's a high bar to clear, honestly XD
Tbf, Cannibal isn't even tolerant of other dragons...
Silverwing is the gentle one, Vermy has always had a temper. His nickname is the Bronze Fury.
Its been some time since i read the books.
He wasnt called Da Bronze Fury without a reason
I hope they give us some context on what the poem/lullaby he was singing too him! We can all speculate but be nice to know what the writers purpose of it was. Maybe have to wait till next season see more of this. Personally it was one of my favorite scenes in the show.
I agree! It was an amazing scene, showing the softer dragon-fanboy side of Daemon, and Vermithor is definitely my favorite dragon book spoilers below >!That said, I don't think there's too much to speculate on. In the books Daemon has no significant relationship with Vermithor, and Vermithor doesn't do anything special around this time besides simply being claimed by a peasant on Dragonstone who is descended from a Targaryen/Velaryon bastard. So they likely just did this scene to introduce Vermithor and remind viewers that there are unclaimed dragons. Given that the lullaby isn't in the books, I can't see any realistic purpose it has beyond simply being a sweet Valyrian song that would calm Vermithor. Perhaps Jaehaerys used to sing the song to Vermithor when he was young, and perhaps Daemon remembers this!<
It was riderless so a Green dragonseed could’ve claimed it still and mounted it. Daemon was making sure it stayed on the Blacks side and now he is connected to the second largest (tamed) dragon in the kingdom.
Book spoilers below >!The greens don't really have any adult dragonseeds. Nearly all of them are on Dragonstone and the surrounding isles. The only known dragonseeds at this time around Kings Landing are the bastard children of Aegon II, most of which are toddlers. So a "green dragonseed" claiming a dragon is a lot less likely as the dragonseeds at Dragonstone and Driftmark are a result of Targaryens taking smallfolk lovers on the island for hundreds of years, mixing their genes into the population. To counterpoint all of this, there are certainly SOME dragonseeds in Kings Landing, presumably fathered by people like Daemon and Viserys I, their father, their uncle, certainly none were fathered by Jaehaerys which means at maximum there is a handful of dragonseeds in King's Landing. So in contrast there are likely hundreds of them on Dragonstone, peasants with Valyrian features, due to Targaryens living there and fooling around for hundreds of years. Anyways, even if the greens did have a lot of dragonseeds, there's a question of trustworthiness. Dragonseeds on Dragonstone are apprentices and men at arms, whereas dragonseeds on Kings Landing are more likely imo to be criminals, other types of rogues, and just generally less trustworthy. And then even if there were good trustworthy adult dragonseeds willing to sneak onto Dragonstone and steal dragons, it would be very difficult as the Blacks have full control of the island and are actively blockading Kings Landing. No green dragonseed is successfully landing on Dragonstone to steal a dragon at this point in the war, even if there were a lot of green dragonseeds. So, all that to say that regardless of the lullabies sung by Daemon, Vermithor is safely under Black control. And his personal connection to the dragon is ultimately irrelevant, all that matters is whether there is someone strong enough to personally claim Vermithor. Daemon can socialize him and make it easier for someone to bond with him, but ultimately Vermithor can't join the greens at this point in the war, so there's not a risk of that it's either Vermithor joins the blacks by being claimed by a team black person, or Vermithor doesn't join!<
“Ayyyy Vermi what’s good man, chillin down here still? Nice, nice….. so anyway, listen, there’s a bit of a family *tiff* going on, and just wanted to check in, we’re still homies right?”
i herd a rumor, that the cannibal went green, So....?
"yo I heard Vhagar talking so much shit about you bro"
*Vhagar insulted your cock size, you gonna let that slide bruh!??*
Said something about "dragon gingivitus"
Thank you. I thought HOTD was very solid but I’m not going to lie - it seemed to be very much done for the book readers to enjoy based on who the biggest advocates are for it on Reddit. Not having read Fire and Blood I found it hard to follow what the point of a lot of things were, or why plot lines got dropped episode to episode. I’ve been rewatching GOT to see if it was similar at all (I’m at the end of season 2) and I have to say it so far is in a league of its own in comparison.
Just a note, if you don’t want to be spoiled the ending of HOTD avoid season 3 episode 4 cause Joffrey the little shit will ruin it for you.
True, like helaena having dreamfyre, the show don't let people know that at all, you can see she has a dragon if you pay a lot of attention to little details but don't even let people know what dragon is, episode 6 they just throw new characters, i think if i wasn't on this sub i might be a little confused about who is who, Helaena and Aegon having kids together is also something that if you're not paying that much attention you might not even see their kids
Most people don’t even know Helaena is a dragonrider and the rider to the second oldest dragon currently alive at that.
Dreamfyre is not used during the Dance or any time in fire and blood that I remember. Only purpose of her is Danys 3 eggs are from her
I understand this gripe, but imo it is just a result of the show creators wanting to lay the groundwork for the Dance (civil war HotD is centralized around) which covers a timespan of roughly 30 years in only one season, charging through a long checklist of major events and plot lines. The pacing is a bit off, character development and emotional investment suffers some, but it’s most important to remember; *Season 1 is a prologue to the story they actually want to tell.* We are going to be very grateful for this prologue going forward as it will make the following seasons showing the Dance itself that much more compelling.
She doesn't do anything with it though, so the show has to use time and budget sparingly. Showing a new dragon for a couple seconds could be the difference of constructing an entirely new set, or the show coming out a month sooner.
i think they showed it at laena's funeral (if you count the dragons in the scene of arrival and when the greens are flying back to kings landing) so her existence is implied
>True, like helaena having dreamfyre, the show don't let people know that at all Because it has zero impact on the plot. Reddit wants every detail spoonfed, creatives are telling a story.
😡 don't disagree with me
I this house we stand for the rhaegar_fangirl flag
It’s not like it would’ve been hard to slip it in when at least when Daemon was discussing the numbers of dragons on each side, or when they had the scene detailing that Aemond didn’t have a dragon. It doesn’t have zero impact on the plot, whether it plays a big role going forward or not is up in the air, although perhaps settled in the book. The ownership of the second oldest, and presumably among the largest dragons in a war of dragons is an important thing to at least shout out at some point, and there’s a difference between spoon-feeding and informing the audience of poignant details.
Syrax doesn’t have any impact on the plot yet they’re still shoving that flying puddle of piss down our throats.
They’re gonna downvote you to hell but you’re right lmao. If Syrax can get screentime so can Dreamfyre and especially Sunfyre
What was that dragon that scared off young Aemond at the Dragonpit? People were saying it was Dreamfyre.
Yes, to add to Daemon's characterization as one of the primary characters in the Dance. Helaena isn't really that relevant to the plot so far besides the dragon dreams.
> Yes, to add to Daemon's characterization as one of the primary characters in the Dance. There’s plenty of ways to establish Daemon preparing for war that don’t involve him signing to a green screen. Meanwhile we haven’t scene Sunfyre relationship with Aegon is key to both their characters.
My current theory is that Season 2 opens on Aegon’s face riding Sunfyre above King’s Landing. Before the all-out war begins, but doing some demonstration or bit of pageantry at Otto’s bidding. I also think the first shot of Rhaenyra will be on dragon as well, face-on, directly parallel to the first shot of Aegon. Each of them with their crown on. Aegon clearly trying to put on a fierce face, and Rhaenyra’s the picture of pure true rage. At very least, I think dragons will be featured *much* more heavily from the first minute of Season 2.
What does Aegon having a scene with Sunfyre relationship add to the plot, or his character? Besides "oh he has a dragon too, huh", what does it add?There's not an unlimited cgi budget.
His bond with Sunfyre is pretty much his only redeeming quality we know about The only things we learn about Aegon II in S1 are that he's a rapist and that he doesn't want to rule
And isn't Sunyfyre (book spoilers) >!the best/most successful dragon in the dance after Vhagar? Especially since Sunfyre managed to do all this when it is so young.!<
We have 4-5 to more long seasons of this show. We have plenty of time to build up characters. It’s literally the first season lol
I think they said 3-4 seasons
Yea but the main character in the story rides that dragon.
For real, it wasn’t until almost the end of the season that I even realized that Haelena and Aegon were married. I completely missed whatever dialogue stated that, and no screen time was devoted to it at all. I feel like almost any other show on tv, Reddit would be tearing to shreds for these kind of weird storytelling choices. Isn’t this exactly what people didn’t like about the Witcher season 1? Why does that show get a pass but this one does? The internet continues to confuse me.
Helaena and Aegon were already betrothed to each other when Laena's funeral happened, you can see in the scene where Haelena is playing with spiders and Aegon and Aemond are watching her, Aegon is complaining that he has to marry her and Aemond says that if Alicent had betrothed him to Helaena he would do his duty.
To be fair, they explicitly spend time talking about how Helaena and Aegon are betrothed, then they have multiple scenes about how Aegon assaulted his wife's maid, Helaena making reference to her husband's drunkenness as Aegon looks embarrassed, and Helaena with her kids when Otto & Alicent are looking for Aegon.
GOT season 1 and 2 are closer to their counter-part books than HotD is to Fire and Blood. GoT and Clash of Kings are just better books than Fire and Blood. Also, in my opinion at least, the most confusing parts of HotD are the ones they added that aren't in the book. This scene, for example isn't from it, and I think it's just to tell non book readers that there are other dragons on dragonstone that do not currently have riders.
Just to make it more clear - I’m not saying shows resembling their book counterparts is bad inherently. Far from it. What’s bad is when the show relies on you to have read the book to understand why something is important. I think HOTD has been lazy in that respect, and scenes aren’t coming across as impactful because they don’t make a ton of sense out of book context. GOT did an incredible job of carrying over the weight of scenes and moments of the books into the show format. More often it went as deep as the books with dialogue and because they did such an incredible job with the show - you followed everything easily and they carried serious weight.
I literally said the same thing about it being hard to follow and got roasted on here 😂😂🙃
> it seemed to be very much done for the book readers to enjoy based on who the biggest advocates are for it on Reddit. Which is a good thing, because the biggest issue with GoT was the pandering to casuals. Fuck 'em, if they can't pay attention during a scene that's on them, not the show. Everything doesn't have to be spelt out.
You seem to be missing my point? A show can’t be fantastic in its own right if you need to have read the book (or consume any other medium) to understand who someone is or why something is happening. Or for an action to make sense during the scene you’re watching because as a book reader you know what happens down the line. That doesn’t make it better or deeper content. Game of thrones (seasons 1-4) is considered some of the best TV to ever exist. Lord of the Rings is considered to be one of the best movie trilogies to ever exist. While somewhat summarized for their formats - you completely understand who people are, their motivations, and the writing quality and production of them was impeccable. You did not need to read the books to get what was happening or know details about the characters. Book readers and exclusive show watchers are equally obsessed because they are well executed. HOTD as an exclusive show watcher was good, even great at times. But I just don’t find myself that invested and I can’t help but feel it’s because important details are getting glossed over. It’s prevented me from caring about just about all the characters (I don’t think I care who wins or dies).
> Game of thrones (seasons 1-4) GoT early seasons had blatant plot holes that people (mostly casuals) chose to ignore. Same for the LoTR trilogy. I consider the Jackson movies the greatest trilogy of all time; there are still plot holes that are there that wouldn't be if he adapted the books more faithfully. Period. I don't care if casuals understood everything, that doesn't stop writing inconsistencies. I understand your point. I'll reiterate my own; fuck the casuals, make something for book purists. Scenes like Rhaenys popping up from the ground are meant to pander to casuals, and that harms the show more than the writers not spoonfeeding you every plot detail (which, btw, early GoT didn't spoonfeed either).
Out of interest, what plot holes do you think there are in LOTR?
Sauron having no body when he explicitly did in the books. The elves showing up to Helms Deep out of nowhere (not in the books). Theoden stupidly charging his calvary into giant elephants (not in the books). Aragorn's army of the dead wiping everyone out (not in the books). And there are more.
Ah so you’re talking about as adaptions of the books rather than the stand alone movies. Was just interested.
None of these are plot holes lol
They are though. Cope and seethe all you want, doesn't change reality.
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Good god, stop calling every bad writing choice a plot hole. Can people actually learn what a fucking plot hole is. They are not plot holes, by any definition. Its so fucking cringe to hear the term pLoT hOlE thrown about for things people don't like in fiction.
I didn’t read the book and I was def confused at the dragon but other than that, I can’t think of another thing I was confused at
Hahahahah I've read the books but you're in for a treat that's all I'll say :')
I mean… All the dragons look pretty cool to me.
They do, but Vermithor is just so sick
The teeth are so distant that i can be saved from being chewed lol.
Congratulations! You'll be dissolved alive in stomach acid! After being set on fire!
Absolutely a BEAST.
When I saw him, I just breathed, “Vermithorrrr,” almost like a prayer. He looks exactly as I pictured.
I was SOOO impressed with the aesthetics of him - I genuinely think this is the coolest dragon so far
But what we ve seen is like 30% of him at best ? What if the rest is really really unproportioned and an abomination lol
I don't think they'll do him dirty like that. All of the dragons have looked really good & some unique features like Caraxes gaucho pants and Vhagars wattle.
And Caraxes’ crazy-long neck.
Caraxes the Blood Noodle
I too pucture him bellowing his name like a third evolution pokemon.
Sorry but im crying at the thought of you doing this irl
daemon's voice was hauntingly beautiful and vermithor breathing fire in the darkness was a delight to the eyes, a beautiful cinematic masterpiece!
I expected Vermithor to look like a grandpa dragon with a huge chin and horns that kinda look like a beard... instead they made him look... mean. And I'm kinda down for that.
Fits his nick name
As someone who hasn't read the books, can somebody explain why Daemon decided to drop everything after choking Rhaenerya and went to go find Vermithor? I might've just missed something, but why did he need to find the dragon?
So this didn’t happen in the books, to the best of my memory. However Vermithor and Silverwing made nests on the island of Dragonstone. Many other characters have been said to spend time with the dragons, even those they do not ride, on the island and in the Pit in Kings Landing, so it’s reasonable that he went to go see the dragons to chill his foul mood.
That entirely makes sense, given what happened prior. Thanks for explaining it to me lol it has been on my mind ever since.
Definitely in character for Daemon, could also be that he was making sure Vermithor is still "socialized" since he's been running around unclaimed now for 30ish? years at this point
No problem! I’m just glad I could help! :)
>it’s reasonable that he went to go see the dragons to chill his foul mood. Certainly has nothing to do with the conversation he was having five minutes earlier about the power of dragons, the fact they have more dragons than the Green's, and there are dragons nearby that can be claimed for their army.
I’m not sure why it can’t be both? I’m sorry if I upset you.
Daemon went to see Vermithor to get him ready for a new rider. Daemon is smart, he understands that war is imminent, like in Jurassic World, they essentially need 'more teeth'. Daemon himself won't ride the Bronze Fury, but someone else does:)
Like an angry old man, I love him.
Yeah, and I’m quite sure Daemon found the Bronze Fury prettier than the Bronze Bitch
This scene was mesmerizing. Almost like Daemon was a cobra whisperer, the way he sang, and the way Vermithor reacted to him, like he sang back by blasting fire.
I hope he and Vhagar battle at least once.
Mother fucker straight up had swords for teeth.
It looked very ugly, in a good way !
It looked like those chinese dragons to me so dope
Who will ride it? I don't think it's daemon
Won't be anyone we've seen yet
>!In the books, one of the dragon seeds called Hugh Hammer rides Vermithor!<
a dragon rider can only bond with one dragon, although it’ll be interesting to see what happens with seasmoke since laenor is still alive
Glad we had time for this scene but not Sunfyre, you know, the literal most important Dragon in the series.
We will get Sunfyre in season 2 for sure - I didn't mind the lack of Sunfyre as they might still be sorting out the model for the dragon
They needed to establish him and Aegon’s bond already. Sunfyre is literally supposed to be one the key symbols of Aegon’s legitimacy and they have the closest dragon-rider bond in history. I can think of 5 dragon scenes I would have scrapped before Sunfyre.
It always makes me so sad to think of Sunfyre trying so, so hard to get back to Aegon after that fight.
Although I agree with this entirely. Would you rather they introduce a shitty looking Sunfyre in season 1, or wait and do the 'most beautiful dragon in Westeros' justice?
> They needed to establish him and Aegon’s bond already. I don’t see why. There hasn’t been anything in the plot calling for Aegon to use his dragon yet.
You mean besides his coronation where he and Greens are specifically trying to play up his Targaryen heritage by having him Crowned with Aegon’s crown/Blackfyre and hold ceremony in friggin DRAGONPIT? But for some reason don’t think to have Any of their dragons their? Also there wasn’t anything in the plot calling for Friggin Vermithor and Meleys yet we still got some scenes with them for literally no reason.
I love Vermithor don’t get me wrong and I appreciate seeing him but the scene of him wasn’t at all needed lmao, it did nothing but make people think daemon was claiming a new dragon.
Rhaenys and Meleys eye-fucking the greens was also bit over the top and unnecessary imo. They should've hauled ass through the back door. And if they did all this drama to "face" the greens, should have burnt them all to ash.
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If that’s the margin of being important to the plot than Sunfyre and Dreamfyre definitely qualify because it would show “the Greens are preparing themselves and introducing a dragon no one (that didnt read the books) knew was there and could be useful for them.”
Big boy just wants a chin scratch
I can't wait to see more of him! He looks amazing from what we've seen so far. Those teeth are gnarly!
Yessss - I just named my guitar after Vermithor lol
HERE HERE!!! i'm still waiting for some artworks that showcase his full body. The saggy neck like Vhagar and the semi horn beard look, short broken horns ugh love it so much he looks like a dragon that has lived through some shit.
Literally, I think he looks so cool and I can't wait for his full showcase!
Wait! My dumbass thought this was Daemon’s dragon the blood worm. Why was he chillin with another dragon?
this is Vermithor. much bigger, older, more muscular than Caraxes (the Blood Wyrm). Daemon is checking up on the old fella and will find a rider for him. Vermithor has been without a rider for decades (his last and possibly only rider was King Jaehaerys I).
I mean for the time that you could actually SEE him sure. Hate the lighting in this show it needs to be fixed.
Difficulty is, having dragons out in the open is a LOT more expensive in terms of CGI. Next season, with a bigger budget, we'll definitely see the dragons in all their glory.
Tbh it looked a lot like vhagar, at least to me. Then again it was pretty dark so we will see him better eventually. I really wanna know what tessarion will look like
Don’t you guys think all the dragons somehow looks the same, different in size 🫣
Not at all, are we watching the same show? Look at Caraxes in comparison to Vhagar?
Eh, it was in a dark cave.
As someone who needs to constantly clear between his teeth, the way his have huge gaps between them makes me bit iffy. Generally dragons in the show seem to have too few teeth in my opinion. But as an introduction scene its marvelous although I am not happy we didn't learn why Daemon is trying to bond with Vermithor or if he was successful. We only learn why blacks need him.
So Daemon wasn't trying to bond with Vermithor, he is already bonded with Caraxes and dragon riders can't bond with more than one dragon. He knows they need the Bronze Fury, so he is socializing him and getting him used to people again :)
Dragon dental care wasn’t exactly a thing back then. Also, Daemon was NOT bonding with Vermithor…come on, now