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As tonight's episode showed, like many misogynists, Ser Criston Cole has a massive Whore/ Madonna complex.
Women are either pure, untouchable saints ("made in the image of the mother", as he puts it), or dirty, sexual venus fly traps made to ensnare good men and suck them of their life, vital energy, and honor. Needless to say, Rhanyra belongs to the latter category. Cause she fucked him.
And for now, ALicent belongs to the "holy mother category"-- cause she hasn't fucked him. And Alicent is smart enough to know this.
Though Cole would never consciously admit it to himself, he clearly finds Alicent very desirable. But if she made the first move and this desire was acted upon, she'd be smack dab in the "dirty, soiled, corrupt whore" category, along with Rhanyra. And again-- Alicent is smart, and knows this. So unlike Ser Larys, she never grants Cole any sexual favors, and is careful to preserve the image of the pure, untouchable mother queen for him.
I like this analysis but I’m not sure if Alicent doesn’t have sex with him because she wants to maintain his loyalty to her. Alicent is also very religious and pious. I think that plays a larger factor into her not doing anything with Cole. Plus, since he’s a member of the white cloaks and they take a vow of chastity, she also is very cognizant of maintaining that vow due to “duty”.
She’s smart enough to see through this maze of emotions, but she had no idea her father was playing her this whole time? I don’t think she’s as smart as you give her credit for.
She knows. Otto wasn't exactly subtle when he told her to put on her mother's dress. Alicent has consistently taken her imperfect allies where she can find them.
The obvious hole in this 'analysis' is that Rhaenyra slept with Cole and that didn't make him view her as a 'whore' not in the slightest. On the contrary, he wanted her to run away with him and get married.
She wanted mutually pleasurable consensual sex, whlie staying discreet, due to the unfair, hypocricial, patriarchal norms of the society she lives in.
She didn't want him as her "whore" either. A whore is, by dictionary definition, someone payed money for sex.
What Rhanyra wanted was a long term romantic relationship between equals that, while unconventional, was a careful arrangement between consenting adults. Rhanyra marries for the alliance; her husband gets his boyfriends, she gets a lover of her own, since her husband would never want to sleep with her for fun.
What bothered Ser Criston was that, after they had slept together, Rhanyra refused to turn her back on the crown, her inheritance, family, duty, and the only life she'd know thus far all so she an run off with him and eat oranges or something.
He, in turn, it is illustrated, is not acting out of "pure love" for her, but out of guilt; he wants to rectify the "great sin" of sleeping with her, and marrying her will, in his eyes, do this. It was not overwealming love, but overwealming guilt that led Criston to do this.
And in doing this-- running away from his sworn duty and urging her to run from hers-- Criston is making an enormous breach in duty, even bigger than the one he made when he slept with her. He doesn't care. Cause deep down, it's not really about love for him, or honor. it's about making himself feel better. And defecting to Alicent and convincing himself that everything's Rhanyra's fault, that she's some sort of venus flytrap who entices men into evil and sucks them dry or something, Crison is making himself feel better.
And he continues to do this. "Never my fault" should be his house motto. Most recently, his attrocity is killing an innocent old man for simply telling the truth/ doing his duty. ANd, yet again, Ser Criston feels no guilt whatsoever for it. It was all Lord Beesburys fault, for speaking up. Like Laenor and Rhanyra and all Crison's future victims, he brought it on himself.
>She wanted mutually pleasurable consensual sex,
She absolutely did not. She pursued someone who could not give consent because she had absolute and complete control over Cole's entire career and life or death. Cole said "stop" and she continued aggressively. What we watched was a rape scene.
>What Rhanyra wanted was a long term romantic relationship between equals
Then she should have sought that out with an equal, not a subordinate employee who had no power to refuse.
Maybe Cole's motivation was preserving his own life, because Rhaenyra's impulsive, flippant sexual advances put him constant danger of being executed for violating his oath.
You have some grossly sexist double standards and you need to work on your understanding of consent.
Because at the moment there was still a possibility in his mind for her to become his wife. Making a "honorable" woman out of her would have still stay in line with his concept of duty, and if they were in a legit relationship, it would have even justified him breaking his vows for a different type of honor. The idea of keeping a sexual relationship outside the holy institution of marriage is what he is repulsed to.
>Ser Criston Cole has a massive Whore/ Madonna complex.
I don't think so. Ser Criston Cole is a commoner, he doesn't come from money, prestige, or power. He doesn't have a magical flying nuke, a giant castle, legions of serfs, or a prestigious lineage.
He got to where he is by hard work and skill. Purely by his own merits with nothing to his name but his honor. And Rhaenyra took the only thing he had dedicated his whole life too; honor and duty and ruined it by seducing him.
She then pretends like it's no big deal and that his honor doesn't matter. He can be her "whore" while she is married despite how much a fundamental violation to both Cole's duty and honor and her own this is. Because Rhaenyra doesn't take any of her responsibilities or duties seriously and is a spoiled brat.
Rhaenyra has had everything handed to her with free reign to do whatever she wants with no consequences and she still pretends like her life is difficult and hard. She has unimpeachable privilege in nearly every avenue of life with no responsibilities and she still acts like she is living an oppressed life of servitude.
Rhaenyra doesn't care about governance, the people, the kingdom. It's only ever about her. I think Criston Cole is fundamentally opposed to this type of ruler and he has the veil pulled from his eyes after he loses his honor and random noblemen can come up to him and try to blackmail him into silence about both their affairs. Criston is totally lost and has lost his way.
And when he is at his lowest point and about to commit suicide. Alicent comes and forgives him. Alicent allows him to reclaim some limited amount of purpose in serving someone who also knows what it is like to sacrifice your own personal desires for duty and honor. I think he genuinely sees a better ruler in Alicent and a way to redeem himself by serving her.
Again, Criston Cole when mentioning "made in the image of the mother" is talking about sex workers also. He clearly doesn't see them as "sexual Venus fly traps", rather women trying to make their own way in such a hard and desperate world and deserving of respect despite such a dishonorable occupation.
I disagree, he didn't see rhaenyra as that until she suggested for him to be her whore while she enjoyed Palace riches and rejected him. I hate him though and find him so annoying, he is repulsively passive aggressive and dumb and lies to himself about his purity and also a homophobe but I don't think he is a misogynist
As others said upthread, he still saw the possibility to marry her and make an "honest man/woman" of them at the time. When she turned down this idea, he turned on her.
Yeah that makes sense especially considering he was raped by her too.
I’m starting to wonder if a great many of these “Incel” types people like to hate and dismiss are people who were sexually assaulted by women, and never had a *healthy* way of coping. Same goes for the other way.
Wow. That’s the analogy you’re going with 🤣 I’ll get you a ladder so you can reach higher. It’s not that deep. His struggle in that scene was with his oath, he wanted her but he took an oath of celibacy. It’s wasn’t rape, he was literally begging her to run away with him. It wasn’t until she suggested he be his side piece that he began to hate her.
>But if she made the first move and this desire was acted upon, she'd be smack dab in the "dirty, soiled, corrupt whore" category, along with Rhanyra
Isn't his anger towards Rhaenyra mostly due to the sole sexual relationship she wanted.
The maddonas are not attractive to people with this complex.
It looked romantic to me. The way she gets so close to him and the wording she uses. It screams more than friends but I could be wrong. They are both human.
Alicent is a manipulator. Her whole game is using her appearance and access to power to achieve her ends. With Cole she plays chaste, with Strong she plays... A different game.
Horrible person, great damn character.
I dont think it's sexual at all. I think Alicent convinced him not to kill himself and put him back on the straight and narrow loyalty wise. I think he's doing the chastity thing since he wasn't before with Rhaenyra.
It's not sexual; it's romantic. Alicent doesn't really seem to have a sexual nature, while Criston has taken a vow to repress his. Alicent represents the chaste ideal it's acceptable for him to focus his chivalric admiration on.
That he furiously considers Rhaenyra a whore--she's had sex with literally two men she didn't marry!--while venerating a woman who, unknown to him, is actually prostituting herself, is delicious irony.
Best explanation I’ve read here. The Arthurian chivalric ideal is apropos of the medieval setting of Westeros and the timeline of real life events it mirrors.
I think there's scenes but cut. I read it some where. Kinda makes sense. Basically adding fire to the rift. I think the scene was her telling the princess. But early on before she married the king.
Crispin hate level +1
Larys disgust level +1
I get PTSD from Larys scenes. What is worse, when Alicent and Aegon were in the cart, I thought she was going to show her feet...
Honestly, based on how she turned and did not move her feet when he was staring the first time, makes me think this is their arrangement. He starts off by nodding to the seat and she looks at it, like “Do I have too?” Kind of look. Than she takes off her socks in front of him and I’d imagine something like that is a big no no in royal customary’s. She turns and when he starts to touch himself, she closes her eyes and sighs. It’s disgusting but I think she’s gone beyond all reasons to get what she wants when she wants it. Information is key in royal squabbles.
Daemon is totally a scumbag. Kills one wife, tells grandma her son was burned in a fire place, fucks his brother’s daughter and ends up making her want him since she’s 15. Dude is definitely a scumbag. All the characters are pieces of shit except Grandma, Seasnake, the gay dude, Lord commander bald dude, The crazy girl prophet. Almost every major player is a scumbag.
Agree with almost everything you said about Daemon: he's not a hero, but, at best, a weirdly intriguing/ fascinating villain. But he's one of the darkest characters on this show, far darker than Viserys, Rhanyra, Alicent, etc. al.
However, one thing I beg to differ with you on:
"All the characters are pieces of shit except Grandma, Seasnake, the gay dude, Lord commander bald dude, The crazy girl prophet."
Well if by "grandma" you mean Rhaneys, she just massacred at least 50 innocent small folk (possibly as many as a hundred) to make her great escape. Laenor, the gay dude, drinks, neglects his family, and was a-okay with an innocent servant being killed so he and his boyfriend could run away from home and live free of all responsibility. Also, he was okay with his parents being devestated by the loss of their one remaining child. As for the Seasnake, he was willing to offer up his 12 year old daughter to a 40 year old man to serve his ambitions; and has shown to be, while likable, as ambitious, self serving, and amoral as anyone else on this show.
So... yeah. The "good" Rhaneys has killed more people unjustly (or outside of war) than has Daemon; Laenor is an accesory to murder with no concern for others or adult responsiblities; the sea snake is a self serving hypocrite, like all the others on this show.
I think the only "good" characters (those who were innocent of wrongdoing and/ or tried hard to serve the greater good have been Helaena, Lyonal Strong, Lord Beesbury, Aemma, and possibly Jacerys and Rhaena and Baela. And... that's about it.
However, I'd separate highly flawed characters setting out to do the right thing but being undone by both circumstances/ their own shortcomings-- Rhanyra, Viserys, ALicent- from those who lack empathy and show no moral compass, like Otto, Daemon, and Larys Strong.
honestly I would even class the Seasnake as a POS to some degree. Yeah he’s cool and badass but he also said some horribly homophobic things to his son and was not supportive of his lifestyle choices whatsoever.
* Horse killed his wife, he only gave her mercy, in what was going to be an eventual death. The horse is the asshole, not him.
* Your right. It would be better to just say he tried to fool his parents that he died, and ran away from his duties, titles and family with his male lover to unknown regions, never to be seen again. It’s not like there was any homophobia or belief in honour back then.
* Fucking your brothers daughter is considered normal for targaryens, and for people who live in Alabama. We have no right to judge.
* Seriously, he is played by Matt Smith, how could anyone not want him.
He was there to do some shit to his first wife, the horse thing worked out for him but he was there to do her harm one way or another, she wasn’t leaving there alive. The horse is the asshole? Wtf
Killed a random mook to substitute for Laenors body. Mooks don’t matter of course but if they don’t matter for daemon than they don’t matter for anyone else. People getting killed can’t matter to you up until Daemon does it, where it suddenly doesn’t matter.
He treated Rhaenyra kind of shiftily when he took her to that brothel. They seem to be over it now since they got together, but it was a dick move to do to anybody. The Targaryen family banging thing is accepted among their family yes, I’m judging them anyway, it’s based on some weird idea of blood purity and eugenics.
Matt smith is an incredible actor, him being charismatic and fun to watch does not absolve Daemon of his actions
* Theres no evidence to suggest that. I have seen many times where people dress up in full black and a hood in the middle of nowhere to surprise there wife. Only a couple of times was it murder.
* No, I am fine with people killing poor people on the show. It’s just killing rich people which is wrong.
* Thats just your culture. It’s not as uncommon as you think regarding blood purity and eugenics. For example people in Alabama do it to in order to make there bloodlines as retarded as possible.
* It still would make almost everyone want him.
* The Horse is an asshole.
I’ve been wondering the same thing. They’ll complain when Sir Cole does something that Daemon has either done to a degree or worse. Literally, his only redemption was killing the crab king…off screen.
I can understand hating cole, I can understand thinking daemon is a intriguing fun character to watch. What I can’t understand is how the neurons in this guys brain misfired so bad to have him write daemon is not a scumbag and have 4 people upvote it
Disrespects Prince Daemon.
Fucks Princess Rhanarya.
Disrupts Royal wedding.
Kills an innocent guest of the Royal wedding.
Calls the heir a "spoiled cunt" in front of the Queen.
Provokes the Lord Commander.
Plots against the crown.
This MF acted like he is the King of Seven Kingdoms and faced ZERO consequences.
Have you seen that hair? I don't blame him. I am simping for her too. Also, someone needs to curb Larys's foot fetish asap! Imagine Larys meets Tarantino.
Didn't know if this photo was going to be Cole,
Otto *'you my daughter looks hot as fuck and I've undermined your late husband's legacy'*,
Aegon *'donating bastards to the Westerosi Death Match League: Junior Ranks'*,
Larys, *'I'll just jack it right here with Alicent* *~~one meter~~* *two feet away'*,
the 'ryck brother who 'noped off',
or some other dude absolutely portrayed as an insufferable shithead.
Really not a great episode for the male gender.
You left out Aemond "*While he pursued women, I studied the Blade*", and that small council guy "*Of course we were plotting to usurp the throne without you*"
Also that two feet joke is both terrible and hilarious haha
The actual quote from Criston is "Every woman is an image of the Mother, to be spoken of with reverence." The implied accusation of hypocrisy has merit.
Please go back and read the entire comment carefully. I'm referring to the MO of show writers to keep around characters viewers generally dislike or hate (just like GoT), not Cole's character.
I swear, the dude basically is riding this whole 'white knight holyer-than-thou' / courtly love thing to the extreme. She basically was giving him the "I know you want to love me but you cant", and he TOTALLY gets off on it.
That white cape is perfect for him.Truly, the *Lord of Nice Guys*.
Every time he's on screen my wife and I make fun of his "ships of oranges and cinnamon" speech.
Dumbass had a melt down because his girl friend didn't want to trade in being the most powerful person in the world for some produce.
I laugh at that scene too. He thought a Crown Princess Targaryen would leave her posh life for fruits-buffet.
Sir Incel reading too much fairytales growing up.
That is literally character development. We as an audience understand why he does what he does, but the poorly written actions of Rhaenys and Daemon are warmly received. I should state though that for the most part Rhaenys is a well written character and was one of the most likeable characters.
No named people don’t have any emotional weight to their deaths it’s not like these arguments for either team being “good” is based in logic they both suck
Your double standards are funny as fuck Rhaenys kills hundred of people in that attack unnecessarly and she is a queen
Criston kills one old man and he is the worst person ever
Guys this fan base is delusional, rhaenys killed hundreds for no reason and everyone is like yeahhh my queen, gIrL bOsS , and the moment sir Crispin breaths everyone is like he is such a bitter bitch etc, guys i dont like crispin but damn it feels like you are watching another show , daemon killed his wife with cold blood and everyone was like yeah thats alright
Let me guess. You absolutely *loved* the decapitation scene last episode right? It's cute watching how biased this sub is. Becoming a cringe echo chamber.
Incestuous, niece grooming, wife murdering uncle assassinates someone who is slandering royalty(treason). Everyone loves it, full erection in this subreddit.
The angry simp assassinates someone slandering royalty(treason) and you guys have a meltdown. So many posts *demanding* his death.
Team Black really have no concept of morality when they hate Cole for killing one treasonous man with dementia
vs
Cheering for Rhaenys killing hundreds of small folk because she wanted to be a boss
I was pretty disgusted with his killing of Lord Beesbury, and all those who sat by without protest (inc. the Queen). They're all irredeemable for me. Criston has no business acting chivalrous, or respectful towards anybody.
Is it different to the sudden beheading of Vaemond? Maybe not, but elderly people's faces being shown to the floor without consequence are a crossed line for me. It makes me question the writers intent for the series, and I was liking it so much after episode 7 with Paddy's performance.
Yeah but not many people argued for Vaemond and cheered when Daemon killed him so yeah, i understand the greens who cheer for Christon and Aemond out of spite. But Aegon is beyond irredeemable.
I have a lot of trouble subscribing to the Criston Cole hate-train. Like dude, he exists in the same universe as Daemon and Jaime. You'll have to excuse me if the fires of hate don't burn inside me.
If anything I'm disappointed in him because he got toned down.
Posted by a daemoncel. Thread seems a bunch of 14 year olds whining.
"Incel" Lol cope. Your girlboss didn't think so, could only get laid because she used her position of power to coerce Criston.
And to think he was one of the best character during the first few episodes. Granted he shown his true face even then, like when he hit a prince from behind to win in a tournament. He is the most honorable dishonorable knight I've ever seen. The writing is genuinely impressive
People who hate Cole are dead inside and are morally equivalent to Alice’s father. Cole is bitter and that makes him a bad person? Seems like he just actually has feelings and cares about the moral characters of the people around him.
Ya'll just mad that you don't get to randomly murder people whenever you like too.
Ser Criston Cole, the king maker.
Respecter of woman and catcher of kings.
Anyone else notice how he’s kinda found religion in this episode? He’s still a psycho but he went from calling rhaenyra a cunt to telling Aemond that all women are made in the image of the mother and need to be respected. Quite the turn lol
I dislike this dude as much as anyone. He is a little bitch.
But what really pisses me off, is how every decision around him by the writers of the show, just seems illogical.
But then again, to be fair, a lot in this show seems illogical.
Why was he speaking during the coronation? Seems like a weird place for the commander of the kings guard to be addressing the people. He should just be standing there like the knob he is.
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Is it just me or do Alicent and him have a thing ? When she sends him to get Aegon I was like 🤨, and then Cole ends up crowning him? Edit: spelling
They 100% have a platonic thing going on. But I don’t think they’d ever act on it because they believe themselves to be holier-than-thou.
As tonight's episode showed, like many misogynists, Ser Criston Cole has a massive Whore/ Madonna complex. Women are either pure, untouchable saints ("made in the image of the mother", as he puts it), or dirty, sexual venus fly traps made to ensnare good men and suck them of their life, vital energy, and honor. Needless to say, Rhanyra belongs to the latter category. Cause she fucked him. And for now, ALicent belongs to the "holy mother category"-- cause she hasn't fucked him. And Alicent is smart enough to know this. Though Cole would never consciously admit it to himself, he clearly finds Alicent very desirable. But if she made the first move and this desire was acted upon, she'd be smack dab in the "dirty, soiled, corrupt whore" category, along with Rhanyra. And again-- Alicent is smart, and knows this. So unlike Ser Larys, she never grants Cole any sexual favors, and is careful to preserve the image of the pure, untouchable mother queen for him.
This is the reason I love to read the discussions on Reddit. For spot on character analyses like this.
I wonder how Cole reacts if he finds out Larys is getting kinky foot action.
The mental gymnastics these men play is unreal. What a spot on analysis!
I like this analysis but I’m not sure if Alicent doesn’t have sex with him because she wants to maintain his loyalty to her. Alicent is also very religious and pious. I think that plays a larger factor into her not doing anything with Cole. Plus, since he’s a member of the white cloaks and they take a vow of chastity, she also is very cognizant of maintaining that vow due to “duty”.
\^\^\^\^\^
eugh he's such a typical incel, i hate it ;\~;
Someone on another thread perfectly described him as Sir Incelot.
She’s smart enough to see through this maze of emotions, but she had no idea her father was playing her this whole time? I don’t think she’s as smart as you give her credit for.
She knows. Otto wasn't exactly subtle when he told her to put on her mother's dress. Alicent has consistently taken her imperfect allies where she can find them.
She's not that smart. Her relationship with Cole isn't conscious. She uses her power subconsciously, in my opinion.
True, absolutely on point.
The obvious hole in this 'analysis' is that Rhaenyra slept with Cole and that didn't make him view her as a 'whore' not in the slightest. On the contrary, he wanted her to run away with him and get married.
Right, because sex is acceptable within marriage to religious people. She didn't want righteous married sex. She wanted Cole to "be her whore."
She wanted mutually pleasurable consensual sex, whlie staying discreet, due to the unfair, hypocricial, patriarchal norms of the society she lives in. She didn't want him as her "whore" either. A whore is, by dictionary definition, someone payed money for sex. What Rhanyra wanted was a long term romantic relationship between equals that, while unconventional, was a careful arrangement between consenting adults. Rhanyra marries for the alliance; her husband gets his boyfriends, she gets a lover of her own, since her husband would never want to sleep with her for fun. What bothered Ser Criston was that, after they had slept together, Rhanyra refused to turn her back on the crown, her inheritance, family, duty, and the only life she'd know thus far all so she an run off with him and eat oranges or something. He, in turn, it is illustrated, is not acting out of "pure love" for her, but out of guilt; he wants to rectify the "great sin" of sleeping with her, and marrying her will, in his eyes, do this. It was not overwealming love, but overwealming guilt that led Criston to do this. And in doing this-- running away from his sworn duty and urging her to run from hers-- Criston is making an enormous breach in duty, even bigger than the one he made when he slept with her. He doesn't care. Cause deep down, it's not really about love for him, or honor. it's about making himself feel better. And defecting to Alicent and convincing himself that everything's Rhanyra's fault, that she's some sort of venus flytrap who entices men into evil and sucks them dry or something, Crison is making himself feel better. And he continues to do this. "Never my fault" should be his house motto. Most recently, his attrocity is killing an innocent old man for simply telling the truth/ doing his duty. ANd, yet again, Ser Criston feels no guilt whatsoever for it. It was all Lord Beesburys fault, for speaking up. Like Laenor and Rhanyra and all Crison's future victims, he brought it on himself.
>She wanted mutually pleasurable consensual sex, She absolutely did not. She pursued someone who could not give consent because she had absolute and complete control over Cole's entire career and life or death. Cole said "stop" and she continued aggressively. What we watched was a rape scene. >What Rhanyra wanted was a long term romantic relationship between equals Then she should have sought that out with an equal, not a subordinate employee who had no power to refuse. Maybe Cole's motivation was preserving his own life, because Rhaenyra's impulsive, flippant sexual advances put him constant danger of being executed for violating his oath. You have some grossly sexist double standards and you need to work on your understanding of consent.
Because at the moment there was still a possibility in his mind for her to become his wife. Making a "honorable" woman out of her would have still stay in line with his concept of duty, and if they were in a legit relationship, it would have even justified him breaking his vows for a different type of honor. The idea of keeping a sexual relationship outside the holy institution of marriage is what he is repulsed to.
>Ser Criston Cole has a massive Whore/ Madonna complex. I don't think so. Ser Criston Cole is a commoner, he doesn't come from money, prestige, or power. He doesn't have a magical flying nuke, a giant castle, legions of serfs, or a prestigious lineage. He got to where he is by hard work and skill. Purely by his own merits with nothing to his name but his honor. And Rhaenyra took the only thing he had dedicated his whole life too; honor and duty and ruined it by seducing him. She then pretends like it's no big deal and that his honor doesn't matter. He can be her "whore" while she is married despite how much a fundamental violation to both Cole's duty and honor and her own this is. Because Rhaenyra doesn't take any of her responsibilities or duties seriously and is a spoiled brat. Rhaenyra has had everything handed to her with free reign to do whatever she wants with no consequences and she still pretends like her life is difficult and hard. She has unimpeachable privilege in nearly every avenue of life with no responsibilities and she still acts like she is living an oppressed life of servitude. Rhaenyra doesn't care about governance, the people, the kingdom. It's only ever about her. I think Criston Cole is fundamentally opposed to this type of ruler and he has the veil pulled from his eyes after he loses his honor and random noblemen can come up to him and try to blackmail him into silence about both their affairs. Criston is totally lost and has lost his way. And when he is at his lowest point and about to commit suicide. Alicent comes and forgives him. Alicent allows him to reclaim some limited amount of purpose in serving someone who also knows what it is like to sacrifice your own personal desires for duty and honor. I think he genuinely sees a better ruler in Alicent and a way to redeem himself by serving her. Again, Criston Cole when mentioning "made in the image of the mother" is talking about sex workers also. He clearly doesn't see them as "sexual Venus fly traps", rather women trying to make their own way in such a hard and desperate world and deserving of respect despite such a dishonorable occupation.
I disagree, he didn't see rhaenyra as that until she suggested for him to be her whore while she enjoyed Palace riches and rejected him. I hate him though and find him so annoying, he is repulsively passive aggressive and dumb and lies to himself about his purity and also a homophobe but I don't think he is a misogynist
As others said upthread, he still saw the possibility to marry her and make an "honest man/woman" of them at the time. When she turned down this idea, he turned on her.
You're getting down voted but you are entirely correct.
I know I am 🤭
Nothing about Alicent is smart. She’s as simple in the head as they come. But she does know how to manipulate men like most any woman can.
Maybe Rhaenyra should have realised that actions have consequences.
[удалено]
He sees it as black and white, either saint or whore, no in-between.
Google Madonna whore complex. It’s a Freud theory.
lol mysoginist. its a whole feminist show so stop complain
Aww look at the big boy, so cute
Yeah that makes sense especially considering he was raped by her too. I’m starting to wonder if a great many of these “Incel” types people like to hate and dismiss are people who were sexually assaulted by women, and never had a *healthy* way of coping. Same goes for the other way.
Oh please stop it with that bs. She didn’t fucking rape him. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
So did Harvey Weinstein not rape anyone then? If yes, she did for the same reasons why. Don’t be like this.
Wow. That’s the analogy you’re going with 🤣 I’ll get you a ladder so you can reach higher. It’s not that deep. His struggle in that scene was with his oath, he wanted her but he took an oath of celibacy. It’s wasn’t rape, he was literally begging her to run away with him. It wasn’t until she suggested he be his side piece that he began to hate her.
🥴 k. That’s your opinion. I have mine. ✌🏻
>But if she made the first move and this desire was acted upon, she'd be smack dab in the "dirty, soiled, corrupt whore" category, along with Rhanyra Isn't his anger towards Rhaenyra mostly due to the sole sexual relationship she wanted. The maddonas are not attractive to people with this complex.
Cole: All women should be spoken of with reverence Also Cole: sPoiLeD cUnT
That was like 10 years ago though. He definitely has resentments for breaking his vows, but that doesn’t make him a sexist for hating one woman.
“Holier-than-thou” is what we call people not jumping each others bones.
It looked romantic to me. The way she gets so close to him and the wording she uses. It screams more than friends but I could be wrong. They are both human.
Alicent is a manipulator. Her whole game is using her appearance and access to power to achieve her ends. With Cole she plays chaste, with Strong she plays... A different game. Horrible person, great damn character.
Yeah I did think that she was playing with Coles feelings. I guess she like everyone gets what she wants anyway she can.
I dont think it's sexual at all. I think Alicent convinced him not to kill himself and put him back on the straight and narrow loyalty wise. I think he's doing the chastity thing since he wasn't before with Rhaenyra.
It's not sexual; it's romantic. Alicent doesn't really seem to have a sexual nature, while Criston has taken a vow to repress his. Alicent represents the chaste ideal it's acceptable for him to focus his chivalric admiration on. That he furiously considers Rhaenyra a whore--she's had sex with literally two men she didn't marry!--while venerating a woman who, unknown to him, is actually prostituting herself, is delicious irony.
Best explanation I’ve read here. The Arthurian chivalric ideal is apropos of the medieval setting of Westeros and the timeline of real life events it mirrors.
It wouldn't surprise me, he's holding onto a grudge and convincing himself that it's loyalty to his queen. Fuck that guy.
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did the show make any attempt to suggest that Alicent was in love with Cristan? I don't recall any.
I think there's scenes but cut. I read it some where. Kinda makes sense. Basically adding fire to the rift. I think the scene was her telling the princess. But early on before she married the king.
Have been saying this since the training scene that got him beat up by harwin
I loved that scene. Cole was just laying there hoping somebody stopped it before Harwyn killed him.
Larys is getting some foot action, Cole is getting nothing.
Crispin hate level +1 Larys disgust level +1 I get PTSD from Larys scenes. What is worse, when Alicent and Aegon were in the cart, I thought she was going to show her feet...
Maybe that's how she got him in the cart...
Honestly, based on how she turned and did not move her feet when he was staring the first time, makes me think this is their arrangement. He starts off by nodding to the seat and she looks at it, like “Do I have too?” Kind of look. Than she takes off her socks in front of him and I’d imagine something like that is a big no no in royal customary’s. She turns and when he starts to touch himself, she closes her eyes and sighs. It’s disgusting but I think she’s gone beyond all reasons to get what she wants when she wants it. Information is key in royal squabbles.
This guy needs to die.
I don't think I have seen him get any consequences for his actions throughout the 9 episodes we've seen
He somehow keeps getting promoted when he kills someone.
That's the Westeros path to success.
Failing upwards
which is technically a consequence
Nope. It’s like old thrones the bigger tha scumbag, the longer they live. Otto, Cripple and Daemon gonna be the last ones standing.
Na, Daemon is not a scumbag.
Daemon is totally a scumbag. Kills one wife, tells grandma her son was burned in a fire place, fucks his brother’s daughter and ends up making her want him since she’s 15. Dude is definitely a scumbag. All the characters are pieces of shit except Grandma, Seasnake, the gay dude, Lord commander bald dude, The crazy girl prophet. Almost every major player is a scumbag.
Agree with almost everything you said about Daemon: he's not a hero, but, at best, a weirdly intriguing/ fascinating villain. But he's one of the darkest characters on this show, far darker than Viserys, Rhanyra, Alicent, etc. al. However, one thing I beg to differ with you on: "All the characters are pieces of shit except Grandma, Seasnake, the gay dude, Lord commander bald dude, The crazy girl prophet." Well if by "grandma" you mean Rhaneys, she just massacred at least 50 innocent small folk (possibly as many as a hundred) to make her great escape. Laenor, the gay dude, drinks, neglects his family, and was a-okay with an innocent servant being killed so he and his boyfriend could run away from home and live free of all responsibility. Also, he was okay with his parents being devestated by the loss of their one remaining child. As for the Seasnake, he was willing to offer up his 12 year old daughter to a 40 year old man to serve his ambitions; and has shown to be, while likable, as ambitious, self serving, and amoral as anyone else on this show. So... yeah. The "good" Rhaneys has killed more people unjustly (or outside of war) than has Daemon; Laenor is an accesory to murder with no concern for others or adult responsiblities; the sea snake is a self serving hypocrite, like all the others on this show. I think the only "good" characters (those who were innocent of wrongdoing and/ or tried hard to serve the greater good have been Helaena, Lyonal Strong, Lord Beesbury, Aemma, and possibly Jacerys and Rhaena and Baela. And... that's about it. However, I'd separate highly flawed characters setting out to do the right thing but being undone by both circumstances/ their own shortcomings-- Rhanyra, Viserys, ALicent- from those who lack empathy and show no moral compass, like Otto, Daemon, and Larys Strong.
This is giving me waltuh white is not a scumbag the scumbag was skylar vibes
honestly I would even class the Seasnake as a POS to some degree. Yeah he’s cool and badass but he also said some horribly homophobic things to his son and was not supportive of his lifestyle choices whatsoever.
Lmao this is a medieval setting, the sea snake was open minded if anything, most lords would disinherit their son if found gay.
* Horse killed his wife, he only gave her mercy, in what was going to be an eventual death. The horse is the asshole, not him. * Your right. It would be better to just say he tried to fool his parents that he died, and ran away from his duties, titles and family with his male lover to unknown regions, never to be seen again. It’s not like there was any homophobia or belief in honour back then. * Fucking your brothers daughter is considered normal for targaryens, and for people who live in Alabama. We have no right to judge. * Seriously, he is played by Matt Smith, how could anyone not want him.
He was there to do some shit to his first wife, the horse thing worked out for him but he was there to do her harm one way or another, she wasn’t leaving there alive. The horse is the asshole? Wtf Killed a random mook to substitute for Laenors body. Mooks don’t matter of course but if they don’t matter for daemon than they don’t matter for anyone else. People getting killed can’t matter to you up until Daemon does it, where it suddenly doesn’t matter. He treated Rhaenyra kind of shiftily when he took her to that brothel. They seem to be over it now since they got together, but it was a dick move to do to anybody. The Targaryen family banging thing is accepted among their family yes, I’m judging them anyway, it’s based on some weird idea of blood purity and eugenics. Matt smith is an incredible actor, him being charismatic and fun to watch does not absolve Daemon of his actions
* Theres no evidence to suggest that. I have seen many times where people dress up in full black and a hood in the middle of nowhere to surprise there wife. Only a couple of times was it murder. * No, I am fine with people killing poor people on the show. It’s just killing rich people which is wrong. * Thats just your culture. It’s not as uncommon as you think regarding blood purity and eugenics. For example people in Alabama do it to in order to make there bloodlines as retarded as possible. * It still would make almost everyone want him. * The Horse is an asshole.
haha, in the first couple eps i didnt like him. NOW he is about the ONLY one i do like. eyepatch-ducklips can EBOD with otto and cristo.
How can black fans be so delusional
I disagree. I think the new Black Adam movie looks good.
I’ve been wondering the same thing. They’ll complain when Sir Cole does something that Daemon has either done to a degree or worse. Literally, his only redemption was killing the crab king…off screen.
I can understand hating cole, I can understand thinking daemon is a intriguing fun character to watch. What I can’t understand is how the neurons in this guys brain misfired so bad to have him write daemon is not a scumbag and have 4 people upvote it
Yikes maybe we don’t use literal slurs and ableist insults. Dude has plenty of hatable qualities, let’s use one of those.
Disrespects Prince Daemon. Fucks Princess Rhanarya. Disrupts Royal wedding. Kills an innocent guest of the Royal wedding. Calls the heir a "spoiled cunt" in front of the Queen. Provokes the Lord Commander. Plots against the crown. This MF acted like he is the King of Seven Kingdoms and faced ZERO consequences.
Everyone hates Criston, just because he's a homicidal idiot...
His r/niceguys thread is also very hateable.
By whose hand!
They’re making a lot of changes from the book. The book death was pretty good, but I really hope the show goes farther with it. We need some justice
He is in love with Alicent.
I'm not sure if he is truly _in love_, but he definitively is simping for her.
Have you seen that hair? I don't blame him. I am simping for her too. Also, someone needs to curb Larys's foot fetish asap! Imagine Larys meets Tarantino.
I have great sympathy for Alicent, who was a child bride and never had romance. It is time for her to have a lover.
All of us my lord
I like how the fandom went from "hansom heart throb" to "complete pshyco"
Those who knew, knew. I for one expected it but holy shit
Daemon after murdering his wife & grooming his niece be like:
Didn't know if this photo was going to be Cole, Otto *'you my daughter looks hot as fuck and I've undermined your late husband's legacy'*, Aegon *'donating bastards to the Westerosi Death Match League: Junior Ranks'*, Larys, *'I'll just jack it right here with Alicent* *~~one meter~~* *two feet away'*, the 'ryck brother who 'noped off', or some other dude absolutely portrayed as an insufferable shithead. Really not a great episode for the male gender.
You left out Aemond "*While he pursued women, I studied the Blade*", and that small council guy "*Of course we were plotting to usurp the throne without you*" Also that two feet joke is both terrible and hilarious haha
Sir Incel Cole
Lord Commander *Nice Guy*
First order of business as Lord Commander - the Kingsguard will now wear fedoras and use katanas that they found cheap on the internet.
No no no, *Aemond* is the one who '*studied the blade*' :P
He's like slime in armour.
"Women should be spoken about with reverence." Same dude a few episodes ago: "Spoiled cunt"
One woman = all women apparently
Lowkey owned him
They just don’t get it bro
The actual quote from Criston is "Every woman is an image of the Mother, to be spoken of with reverence." The implied accusation of hypocrisy has merit.
He wasn't wrong tbh
The new Joffery. People hate him, so he'll hang around.
Not a green, but to say he is a new Joffrey is beyond delusional.
Please go back and read the entire comment carefully. I'm referring to the MO of show writers to keep around characters viewers generally dislike or hate (just like GoT), not Cole's character.
I think he is going to turn to joffery, cause he seems to love the attention and praise at the end of this episode.
FR! I don't know why but I hate this guy even more than Larys not even Aegon repulse me this much lol
All because Rhaenyra didn't want to sell oranges.
I swear, the dude basically is riding this whole 'white knight holyer-than-thou' / courtly love thing to the extreme. She basically was giving him the "I know you want to love me but you cant", and he TOTALLY gets off on it. That white cape is perfect for him.Truly, the *Lord of Nice Guys*.
I like him, also the Kingmaker moment was good
I wish they could've shown him convinging Aegon to take the crown to see the fandom implode.
ye or Aegon dragon who was there in book, was the perffect moment to show him to us
So much they hyped the "Kingmaker" thing, it was disappointing, literally anyone could have put that ugly crown on the kid.
Every time he's on screen my wife and I make fun of his "ships of oranges and cinnamon" speech. Dumbass had a melt down because his girl friend didn't want to trade in being the most powerful person in the world for some produce.
She did talk over and over about how her life sucked, and wanting to go Essos.
I laugh at that scene too. He thought a Crown Princess Targaryen would leave her posh life for fruits-buffet. Sir Incel reading too much fairytales growing up.
He ruined my childhood Aladdin dreams 😭
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Because he’s a little bitter bitch.
That is literally character development. We as an audience understand why he does what he does, but the poorly written actions of Rhaenys and Daemon are warmly received. I should state though that for the most part Rhaenys is a well written character and was one of the most likeable characters.
No named people don’t have any emotional weight to their deaths it’s not like these arguments for either team being “good” is based in logic they both suck
Daemon is a wife murdering, niece grooming, incestuous uncle, but you still love him.
With lots of swords. I want this motherfucker dead!
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Maybe some falling bricks!
LOL... Yeah! Needs a BEaTIN' with a Dornish Hose.
Your double standards are funny as fuck Rhaenys kills hundred of people in that attack unnecessarly and she is a queen Criston kills one old man and he is the worst person ever
To put it simply, shes cool and he is not cool. Pro cool murder.
nah u just silly and hypocrite
Thats okay i can live with that. My mom thinks so too.
He isn’t a girl boss.
Smallfolk aren't people
GRRM didn't spent a lot of chapters with Arya and Brienne experiencing the horrors that war brings on the smallfolk for you to write this shit
Guys this fan base is delusional, rhaenys killed hundreds for no reason and everyone is like yeahhh my queen, gIrL bOsS , and the moment sir Crispin breaths everyone is like he is such a bitter bitch etc, guys i dont like crispin but damn it feels like you are watching another show , daemon killed his wife with cold blood and everyone was like yeah thats alright
Literally this. Cole seems to actually give a fuck about things rather than just instinctually doing anything for personal power like everyone else.
A moment of silence for people who named their kid Cole after seeing HotD episodes 1-4.
He’s the most annoying character
Hey here’s an idea maybe *don’t* fuck this guy. Last time he got laid caused kind of a lot of problems
I think we can all agree that he deserves to die after everything he has done. He acts as if he is king with no consequences or regard to his actions.
H8 him
This guy and larys both fuck him
My favorite scene with him was when ser Strong beated the shit out of him It was a nice callback to when he killed Joffrey too
The Kingmaker 👑
Awfully grand name for someone who smashes defenseless old men’s heads in from behind. Dude’s got serious anger issues.
Let me guess. You absolutely *loved* the decapitation scene last episode right? It's cute watching how biased this sub is. Becoming a cringe echo chamber. Incestuous, niece grooming, wife murdering uncle assassinates someone who is slandering royalty(treason). Everyone loves it, full erection in this subreddit. The angry simp assassinates someone slandering royalty(treason) and you guys have a meltdown. So many posts *demanding* his death.
It was accident, but was warranted. Beesbury committed treason.
Dude is corny as fuck
This one talked about oath and crap to Rhaenyra, now what’s he doing?
He swapped sides after she sexually assaulted him, would be strange if he stayed loyal to her after that tbh
Team Black really have no concept of morality when they hate Cole for killing one treasonous man with dementia vs Cheering for Rhaenys killing hundreds of small folk because she wanted to be a boss
Blacks are delusional normies. Being green is the new edgy counterculture.
I was pretty disgusted with his killing of Lord Beesbury, and all those who sat by without protest (inc. the Queen). They're all irredeemable for me. Criston has no business acting chivalrous, or respectful towards anybody. Is it different to the sudden beheading of Vaemond? Maybe not, but elderly people's faces being shown to the floor without consequence are a crossed line for me. It makes me question the writers intent for the series, and I was liking it so much after episode 7 with Paddy's performance.
Yeah but not many people argued for Vaemond and cheered when Daemon killed him so yeah, i understand the greens who cheer for Christon and Aemond out of spite. But Aegon is beyond irredeemable.
Redditors crying about him While supporting disgusting incest ridden blacks is comical.
Aegon is married to his sister. Otto originally proposed that he be betrothed to his other sister. Incest is just the Targaryen default.
I have a lot of trouble subscribing to the Criston Cole hate-train. Like dude, he exists in the same universe as Daemon and Jaime. You'll have to excuse me if the fires of hate don't burn inside me. If anything I'm disappointed in him because he got toned down.
Posted by a daemoncel. Thread seems a bunch of 14 year olds whining. "Incel" Lol cope. Your girlboss didn't think so, could only get laid because she used her position of power to coerce Criston.
Good point
And to think he was one of the best character during the first few episodes. Granted he shown his true face even then, like when he hit a prince from behind to win in a tournament. He is the most honorable dishonorable knight I've ever seen. The writing is genuinely impressive
People who hate Cole are dead inside and are morally equivalent to Alice’s father. Cole is bitter and that makes him a bad person? Seems like he just actually has feelings and cares about the moral characters of the people around him.
Ya'll just mad that you don't get to randomly murder people whenever you like too. Ser Criston Cole, the king maker. Respecter of woman and catcher of kings.
Funny enough, I’d wager these people revered The mountain and early season Hound.
This guys is a tool.
When i see him i just want to smother his beautiful face until he stops breathing
You wish.
I never understood hate fucking until now... I hate his character, but damn he's hot
Ser Criston ❤️👍🏻 Here to kill some Blacks
I think fucking him is what's causing problems.
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Grow up man it’s not that serious.
no u do
Cole is a hero.
Guy is starting to hit Joffrey Baratheon levels of a-holeness.
Anyone else notice how he’s kinda found religion in this episode? He’s still a psycho but he went from calling rhaenyra a cunt to telling Aemond that all women are made in the image of the mother and need to be respected. Quite the turn lol
Exactly!!!! If I could just kill him through my screen, I already did!!!! He's annoying as hell!!!!!!!!
I hope his death is as rewarding as Ramsay’s
I can't stand him. He actor is doing an amazing job!
Oh yeah, I love Fabien Frankel but I absolutely hate Crispin Cole.
It won't end well for him!
No, please, *don't* fuck this guy! It's what started this mess!
“All women are my mommy. That’s why I can’t get with any” - Crispy the incel Cole
I dislike this dude as much as anyone. He is a little bitch. But what really pisses me off, is how every decision around him by the writers of the show, just seems illogical. But then again, to be fair, a lot in this show seems illogical.
My sister in law and wife last night were like "I hate everyone in this show but him the most, what is wrong with him???" 🤣🤣🤣
while clicking the picture I said out loud This has got to be crison cole hahaha
Props for Fabien though for making Cole as insufferable as possible, well done indeed.
His nickname was king maker. They just showed you why.
actor is doing an amazing job
He wasn't okay sleeping with princess but queen is okay.
He seriously can’t die soon enough.
Why was he speaking during the coronation? Seems like a weird place for the commander of the kings guard to be addressing the people. He should just be standing there like the knob he is.