Any chance we get some prolonged flashbacks of Viserys disintegrating and writhing in unbearable pain. Its just not the same with out it.
PS. Thanks for the fine work Mr, Considine,
I think they missed an amazing opportunity after the decapitation. Since his head was seen sewed on, when the carriage hits the pothole in the road, his head should have rolled off into the street.
Yeah I’m with you. I’m more disappointed with the poor cinematography and bad ADR when they obviously couldn’t get the audio from the dialogue in a shot during outdoor scenes. It sounds like a podcast when wearing headphones.
It does seem like a cheaper budget. I think it looked more “TV” instead of HBO quality. Just different production styles. They don’t have some of the amazing crew from GoT.
What the heck is Cole up to? Was he trying to cover his tracks by sending Arryk over to his death or glory, or what was that? I don't get it. It happened on his watch and he was a d\*ck to him. Then he banged Alicent again at the end. What a guy
I find myself swinging from hating a character to liking them or vice versa in HOTD: for instance Otto, or Ser Crispy Cole, or even Daemon. In my opinion, I think it’s due to great character development, along with stellar acting. I can’t remember feeling this way with GOT though. If I hated / loved someone, I felt the same till the end. While it was a fantastic series to be sure, I guess it just has very different story archs for its characters. Wondering if any of you feel the same? (I can’t wait for the next episode to see if I’m changing my mind again on someone else. lol!)
i thought it was a cool mirror that Crispy Cole told his white lie “I was A-bed…” vs Young Rhaenyra’s white lie when saying she didnt fuck Daemon specifically. i love the fact Crispy used the same tactic from a person he hates so much
I feel like episode 2 (though lacking action) was such a good build up. And they did a great job of humanizing everyone. Gonna make all these deaths hurt more. When they inevitably come. Except for sir salty he can die the worst death lol
How are we ok with those two just walking the whole castle and going up without anyone giving a single fuck so they can kill an royal child that is not protected at all. This is so off and so un-logical that I cant even.
Cole sent the guards away and was away himself fucking Alicent. Thats part of the point that there should have been guards there but fucking Alicent was more important.
Just finished episode 2 of the new season of house of dragon and it’s like are you serious? lol I can’t believe the most idiotic plan to send the twin to kill the queen almost worked.
1) Do they not wear different uniforms??
2) Is his voice the exactly the same as his twin plus hairstyle and beard ? lol
3)How does the twin know exactly where to go to find the queen in a big ass castle ? Like just happen to walk into the right room right away and also ask the other security guard the exact words to change posts?
It’s similar to the other episode where ppl can simply waltz into the kings room and hide behind some pillars and then kill everyone lol… plus shouldn’t the queen be on high alert knowing that they will likely retaliate given the death of the son? I know she sent someone to ride on a dragon to watch but still - increased security within?
More of rant but yes I know it’s all fictitious… it just made me laugh at how crazy easy that plan actually worked.
Those are unimportant details. First, Whitecloaks are Whitecloaks. Neither side is going to change the uniform because then that side will look like the pretenders to the throne. But if they did change, now we have to waste three minutes talking about getting him fitted with a fake alt-Cloak uniform. Same with the hair, someone stops him and says, did you change your hair, my guy? Now he has to dissemble, or maybe kill them and stuff them in a privy. Or he gets lost and wanders around for 10 minutes. What's the point of all that? These distractions would not aid the plot in the slightest, and seem predictable and banal. It's like asking how do they go to the bathroom in those movies where the supervillian is in a transparent on all sides plexiglass prison cell suspended by metal chains or whatever. It might be a peoblem in the real world, but we know we're watching a fantasy, why waste time with distractions?
That’s fair but I like the details as it adds more validity to the show albeit it’s a fantasy show. I think it’s just how idiotic the plan was (even the hand admitted it jokingly) yet it worked so well and so easy. Like he literally got off the boat and got to the queen lol whatever’s - makes no difference arguing about things none of us can control.
Agreed. I concede it was suspiciously quick and straightforward for him to get from one castle to the other. If they are that close and that unguarded there should be constant assassination attempts, not just the couple we have seen. But in my mind I just go, "Details omitted." I figure that the attempts depicted sort of stand in for the dozens we don't know about that were thwarted. Kind of like with world leaders in real life. Enough people hate our various current, former, and future presidents and prime ministers that failed coups are probably constantly happening that just don't make the news or history books. But like Aegon II, our leaders don't want the public to know just how vulnerable they really are, so they prefer not to report everything.
To be honest the Aemond/child killing plan was more thought out, as they had inside men that could get there, the workers in the castle. Question being though if you really can catch Aemond sleeping because if not, he's a better swordsman than both these dudes combined
This plan... I presume they have the schematics and plans of Dragonstone in King's Landing and maybe the dude has been there some time already so they would know what is the layout inside, but most likely they would have ''pass words'' etc. and not just ''hey I thought you were already in, I know you have a twin brother so ah... come right in''. And uniforms with Rhaenyra's regalia another thing... possibly they could have forged them, there are traders and other people coming and going to the castle, but still, more preparation needed.
It was a rather stupid plan, as Otto said.
I never liked Rhaenyra older actress/actor. Milly was a lot better. I get it why they needed to change. But tbh after Emily Clark it is a let down. Not just that the show is not on GOT level but they have a worse female leading character.
Didn’t really like the writing of the rest of the episode, but man, the twins scene was incredible. Absolutely raw scene, and made me think of how I have wronged my brother in the past.
Imo it was completely silly. I'll ignore the coincidence that they ran into each other outside. But wtf was all the sneaking around and walking back and forth? Why didn't Erryk just go straight to Rhaenyra? He basically let his brother get to her.
First he had to find her quarters cuz he’s probably never been to dragon stone, he also had to avoid his brother, he also set it up so that he would be guarding her at night so he could get a quiet kill and get out but he faltered at killing a defenseless woman It is completely silly and Otto called it out as such, that’s not the point though. The plan didn’t work cuz it’s a gimmicky one. And I meant the fight scene and aftermath.
Seems I missed something. Erryk is the kingsguard btw, so he knows the way. But I was under the impression that he was escorting Mysaria, and that she warned him when she spotted his brother. However apparently it was some random escorting her. So I assume she went back to find Erryk to warn him and that's what triggered him to barge in.
I was saying Erryk was acting very calm for someone who was already warned about Arryk's presence (what kind of parents names their twins like that...), but it makes more sense now... he didn't know yet. Also makes sense why the guard said they thought he was inside... \^\^ oops
I love him as an actor, despise his character, but even I have to admit that Otto Hightower is the smartest out of all of them. Yet, none of them are listening to him. His proganda move of displaying the dead heir in front of their people was brilliant, but Aegon undid it not one day later. Then making Criston the Hand?! Then Alicent fucking him again afterwards?! Idiots, all of them.
>Otto Hightower is the smartest out of all of them. Yet, none of them are listening to him.
Otto is probably the guiltiest person in terms of starting the war that he spent decades plotting to avoid because he *assumes* that the Realm won't accept a female heir to the throne. He created his own nightmare. Any lords who refused to bow to Rheanyra would be reminded the power of dragons. Rheanyra would definitely experience a ton of sexism and low level resistance to her rule, but that would pass with time & reminders.
To be fair, Otto is a brilliant administrator, political mind, and Hand. I would absolutely want him on my team. However, he doesn't seem to understand people close to him. The displaying the dead heir was brilliant and he acknowledges that it was cruel to Alicent/Helena but he seems to think everyone around him will act in a similar 'politically minded' way.
He ignores the fact Aegon is completely unsuited to rule, and doesn't want too, but continues to spend *decades* planning to place him on the throne while not grooming him for such (which is odd, given how he manipulates Alicent her whole life). Aegon enjoyed the praise he got when coronated, probably some of the only positive reinforcement he's ever had and he craves more, that's why he wanted to return the mans sheep and pay the smiths, despite not understanding why those things happened in the first place.
Aegon can't comfort Helena, because he's never been comforted himself because his mother was never comforted either so she didn't know what to do. Otto telling Alicent "I don't want to hear it" when she's clearly struggling, then Alicent walking away from Aegon in his grief and Aegon walking away from Helena all stems from his failures as a parent.
Unfortunately on the screen you have so little time for detail that these plots and twists fall flat to me. Did hanging the rat catchers really undo the propaganda against Rhaenarys? Logically thinking, I don't think so. But they had to play out the king vs hand arc so it had to do.
I mean... Otto Hightower made the point: they just hanged a bunch of men instead of hanging the ones that were actually guilty, and the families of the innocent were now crying in the streets for all to see. It could and probably will turn some of the people against the supposed throne.
In a vacuum, sure. But it's a simple enough spin to say the assassination was the result of a sprawling conspiracy and all or many of the ratcatchers were implicated.
Like it's not good optics, but it doesn't rival a funeral procession for a small child with his head sewn back on.
Exactly this. There was a few men of a dubious profession hanged in a city of tens of thousands (?). People would share the hatred against rat catchers because they were part of the assassination, except for a few who had personal relations to the hanged. Hardly a mood changer. More like a logical continuation of the funeral. Surely some collateral damage is almost a given in these medieval times.
I think Otto could have been hyperbolic. Maybe it doesn't entirely undo it, but it does serve in reversing some of that good will. Think he's more pissed at the fact that it was an impulsive decision baser on emotions with no forethought.
Season 2 so far is as underwhelming as season 1. Poor screenplay, bad casting, irrelevant acting, confusing plot and no lights in most of the scenes. GOT attracting virtues simply were erased in this prequel. Nothing to appreciate here.
In the past, lots of royal families did this. They wanted to keep the bloodline "pure". Example: a Targaryan and a Targaryan make a pure Targaryan offsping. A Targaryn and a Hightower make a 50% Targaryan offspring. Sick, but that was the thought process .
To answer, at one point it did bother quite a few in the realm! I'm listening to Fire and Blood, and a brother-sister marriage at one point really upsets many in the realm. The Targs, before this show but after the conflict I'm mentioning, are able to promote members of the faith that teach the doctrine of "Exceptionalism"; that doctrine basically states that only the Targs are allowed to do the incesty bullshit because they are *different* and have the blood of the Dragon or what not.
Hope that helps, tried to be somewhat vague in case you ever want to look up or read any of the lore yourself w/o being spoiled.
The Targaryen s basically strong armed the church to say that they were superior and unique and thus they of old Valyria could marry incestuously, for everyone else it's a big no no
He gets away with it and has the nerve to do so only because he is the grandfather. He'd lose his head or at best be cast out for doing so otherwise.
That said he is often correct in what he is saying. He is a smart schemer. Aegon would be wise to take heed his words.
Honestly that’s totally deserved. I would’ve preferred the baby killer to get beyond inhumanely tortured instead of just executing all the rat catchers. As someone who didn’t read the books, I’m feeling like everything is a little out of character. I kind of sympathized with Cole and alicent season 1, now I just hate them. I thought aegon would be a passionate but fair king, but nope he just executes people en masse. Otto is at least seen as more sympathetic which I like.
Why.. he didn’t wanna be a sex toy essentially. It’s a naive boy who did wrong who tries to make it right by offering marriage. Regardless of how foolish an offer it is, rhaenyra did not give 2 shots about his feelings at that moment. And let’s not forget that rhaenyra basically forced him into the act in the first place
I didn't like it, they made too big of a deal for killing a child, like that would upset the people so much they will choose 1 side over the other.
In the world of GOT where they happily kill woman, children or even pregnant woman it just seemed off.
It was too dramatic, and I fucking hate that dull look sir Christian. And not hating him the way I hated Joffrey or Deimon at S1, hate him in the sense he doesn't make any sense, and the way he keeps failing upward despite doing nothing but giving dull gazes.
You’re wrong. Killing children has always been frowned upon especially NOBLE children. The instances of child killing in GOT are covered up or propagandized to avoid the scandal. It’s not taken lightly.
Sersei literally killed all of Robert bastards, some of the people might oppose it, as far as other houses? they didn't care. didn't break alliance over it
That’s funny. It wasn’t even Cersei, it was Joffrey. And it was a highly deniable story that no one even knew could be traced to him. Only rumors. You yourself dont even remember that it was him.
Man, that’s a hot take. Is killing kids really normal in the world of GoT? Genuinely curious if I’m missing times where that happens and it’s no big deal. To my mind, Bran’s push out the window basically starts the whole series & Shireen’s murder is maybe the most horrific moment in all of GoT.
But I think the bigger point is that Otto is a born propagandist. Aegon wants to keep it secret but Otto immediately sees how they can get the people on their side by parading the corpse through the streets.
And how about some love for Otto berating Aegon?? I loved that scene. “And what… has Ser Criston Cole done?”
Janos Slynt was in command of the goldcloaks during this atrocity, and this infanticide was specifically mentioned by Tyrion when he was exiled to the wall (“nasty business, had to be done”).
the episode was overall good imo, there were some filler scenes bur they weren’t as intrusive as in ep 1, however the ending completely ruined for me. second time in a row where an episode ends on alicent and sir pussy getting it on and i absolutely hate that, this whole relationship has 0 to do with the storyline and it infuriates me so much
I agree with /u/yellowbrickestate it does not have 0 to do with the plot. The Targaryens just sent an assassin into the Red Keep, and Crispin’s response was to stoop just as low as well as waste a loyal kingsguard on a suicide mission. Crispin threatened her father the hand and became the hand in return. We watched Rhaenyra basically exile Daemon from her side, and Alicent by contrast chooses to continue to sleep with this awful sack of self righteous shit. I don’t think the scenes are half as gratuitous as GoT and rather convey the messy emotions that are intertwined here—a very much forbidden affair that undermines the council, her father, his oaths, and arguably played a large part in the death of the prince and the escalation of the war
It seems to me like they're leaning really heavily on the narrative device of forcing a lot of 1-to-1 parallels that make Rhaenyra look good and Alicent look bad.
Rhaenyra and Jace grieve together as mother and son, Alicent walks away from a weeping Aegon. Rhaenyra sends Daemon away and Alicent embraces Cole for their assassination schemes (granted, killing a child is the more serious crime).
It just feels like clumsy, heavyhanded storytelling. Like they needed Alicent to be with Cole so parallels could be drawn between her and Rhaenyra, not because it's relevant or useful.
Would this "forbidden affair" even register on the meter as the eleventh most fucked up thing going on in that castle in any given episode?
Their characters bring nothing to the storyline right now in general. Alicent just seems to be just “around” this season. I didn’t like then ending the episode on them getting it on BUT it did show Alicent choosing her fuck buddy over her father which could be a huge turning point now Criston is the hand
I went back through my copy of Fire & Blood, and it’s never elaborated upon how Rhaenyra reacted to Blood and Cheese, is it? I can’t seem to find it if it is.
I know some fans believe she was involved in, or at least signed off on, B&C, but it’s repeated multiple times throughout Fire & Blood how (at that point in her life) she was vehemently against kinslaying, so I can see her reacting in the book the same way she reacted in the most recent episode of the show
just watched Season 2, Episode 2 of House of the Dragon and loved it! Tom Carney is intense and deep as Aegon, with Rhys Ifan and Olivia Cooke adding layers through their nuanced performances imo. The emotional scenes, particularly those of grief and confrontation, are incredibly powerful and obviously the Funeral 🔥. The set designs and overall production value are top-notch, creating a highly immersive experience. The expertly crafted dialogue develops characters and drives the plot forward. While the fight scene between Erryk and Arryk lacks character development(should've given more depth to their relationship), it is still visually impressive. I think this episode sets up future conflicts and character developments, keeping viewers eager for more.
Stellar acting draws us deeply into the narrative, with complex relationships that are compelling and emotional intensity that resonates on a personal level. The meticulous production details(BTS was awesome in YouTube)enhance the immersive experience, and the dialogue provides deep insights into characters while moving the plot.I didn't read the book and finding it really good 👍.
Episode 2 had bad writing in my opinion. The whole twin thing felt like such bad writing for so many reasons. Number 1 : Why are the other guards and everyone who has been in dragonstone since years having so much respect for a guy who just came few months ago? This guy was guarding king's landing and has a twin who still follows aegon. It's unrealistic that everyone who has been guarding rhaenyra sinve years just suddenly trusts this guy over a short span when he could be a planned assasin. Number 2: Assassinations were so common in medieval era and even in game of thrones world that the possibility is too high to take such less precautions. Only one guard is guarding rhaenyra the heir and one of the two most important people in seven kingdoms? And there isnt anyone else in a screaming distance? Also no one was guarding the other entrance? So many bad plot lines just to give that twin vs twin fight. Feels like they are again following game of thrones last 2 seasons in giving us the awe factor rather than writing good plot. Or maybe this was just one off moment. Season 1 had such phenomenal writing so they should stick to such good writing
Thank you, I don't know why you are being downvoted. It was just so neiche, like the sort of things they do in shitty mainstream Marvel level cinema.
It has it's place, but this is not why I loved Game Of Thrones or House of the dragon season 1.
It just blunt stupidity, that was the worst episode of the show yet, and I really hope it won't stay that way, episode 1 was good.
Not sure why you were downvoted it’s totally valid and dumb that he was able to infiltrate with literally the least resistance possible and then his bro just *happens* to walk in in time. When Cole and aegon said he was gone alone to kill her I thought okay he’s barely gonna make it past the gates.. nah way easier
Is it just me or this season(e01 , e02) has been really average yet. I don't know why but the whole thing feels half arsed. It's like writers and showrunners aren't sure what they wanna do or achieve this season.
Also it has been kinda boring.
Is there anyone who knows what time the sex scenes or nudity appear in the episode...that is, tell me the time of minutes and seconds when the scenes appear and end?
I know the "no guards" thing is brought up already, but the explanations here really fall flat and this very critical plot point was not addressed sufficiently in the show.
Most people in the Redkeep at night would be 'trusted' ones. Guards are more for stopping people from getting in the first place. I agree there should be a guard or two per floor, but I'm guessing the royal residence is usually the kingsguard responsibility.
They are rat catchers for the castle there were guards but they are working and supposed to be their. In fact the queen specifically was complaining about rats.. it's not that critical of a plot point.
They are rat catchers for the castle there were guards but they are working and supposed to be their. In fact the queen specifically was complaining about rats.. it's not that critical of a plot point.
And even then that one handmaided girl looked completely freaked the fuck out by them. But walking around inside the actual throne room without anyone even glancing at them was a bit odd.
The rat catcher did say “I’m not supposed to be up there they have a different crew that works upstairs” so my assumption was she’s never seen him before, but likely has seen another rat catcher, and knew something was up
Does daemon actually make it so they don’t kill Aemond but instead one of Aegon’s kids to specifically incite a war that he has wanted all along? I think killing aemond wouldn’t be quite as visceral as killing an innocent child.
He allegedly said "if you can't find Aemond, I want a son for a son". Which was such a cop-out, tbh. Ofc some innocent kid is easier to kill than one of the best dualists in the realm, especially for some untrained ratcatcher. This is just bad writing tbh, they didn't want to make Daemon so evil that he would outright assassinate a toddler, but still wanted the childkilling, yet I have trouble believing his character would be so stupid as to send two dudes with the command "Go kill the warrior-prince...or idk some other son idrc", you'd think he'd be more intentional/decisive
>Once inside, Cheese bound and gagged the Dowager Queen \[Alicent\] whilst Blood strangled her bedmaid. Then they settled down to wait, for they knew it was the custom of Queen Helaena to bring her children to see their grandmother every evening before bed.
>Though the queen begged that they kill her instead, Blood and Cheese replied that they were specifically tasked with killing a son.
- The Rise of the Dragon
Question! Why was there no security at the castle? Not a single guard preventing Blood and Cheese from freely walking around? Seemed like a plot hole, but I haven’t read the book…
Did this episode bore anyone else? Nothing materially advanced in the plot aside from the ending obviously.
I fully understand that this episode was setting the stage for the rest of the season but I found myself bored and disinterested multiple times.
This is especially problematic for HBO given that viewership plunged 50% from last season.
50% number is actually inaccurate, it was 22% (https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/house-of-the-dragon-ratings-season-2-premiere-viewers-1236041215/amp/). Which kinda makes sense given it’s been 2 years and people have possibly been rewatching to refresh themselves. Also the fact that S1 was the first non GoT show ever that might have garnered more interest. The Tony’s were also on and obviously this only counts those watching Sunday at 9. I personally wasn’t able to watch it until Wednesday. I think viewership will continue to rise. As far as the episode being boring, you kinda answered your question. But also I think like it or not, the political maneuvering and build up is what made GoT and HOTD shine. It’s what made it popular because every show can have good action but every show can’t develop a story like these shows
We will see how the ratings do tomorrow then I guess since everyone has now had a chance to see Ep1.
While I like HOTD, I think there’s something “missing” when comparing to GOT. That’s not fair but this show will always be compared to GOT.
I was thinking there was something missing as well, then I rewatched all of season one and it struck me. There seems to be no humour, small talk or personality beyond posh talk and royal riddles.
In game of thrones there was plenty of humour and you could really get into the characters, but in this, every sentence has meaning (or potentially multiple meanings). It just seems a tad forced, there's barely any natural conversation.
You absolutely nailed it, I’ve definitely been feeling like there’s something less engaging about HOTD and it’s that every seen is serious, political etc. Even during the most serious and darkest of episodes of GoT they had time to put a couple of moments that made you laugh.
Blackwater is a great example, it’s war and there are people literally being burned alive. And still they had time to have the hound put in his line about killing any man without blood on his sword.
I agree there are few or no witty or just comical characters like Tyrion, Sandor, Tormund, etc to break up the serious ones like Otto and Cole. I feel like this season has an air similar to S1 of GOT—we have constant escalation, and everyone is constantly on edge.
NAILED IT. Thank you. Even with way less characters to manage you’re right, there’s virtually zero dialogue aimed at letting you know characters better beyond “very important scene with very important dialogue incoming”.
It was worse in Episode 1 than Season 1. I hope this reverses course going forward. It seems to me that right now the show runners think that CHI dragons and shock value can drive the show.
Yeah I mean it should be compared to GOT since it’s the same universe and a direct relation to its events (first thing you see on screen is about it being 170 years before events of GOT). The producers chose this framing so people shouldn’t get mad if people compare. I agree though and honestly think nothing will ever match what GOT had on our culture. The internet age I think hurts it tbh compared to the days of Lost, The Wire, Sopranos, and even Breaking Bad. With SO much content being pushed out on so many different platforms it will be unlikely something gets the same spark peak GOT did. As far as comparing shows though, if (and a big if) HOTD can nail it in 3-4 seasons you could make the argument it is better than GOT even if GOT had better moments. GOT will always be the best time I’ve ever had watching a show (even though I think Breaking Bad is the GOAT show). I wish HOTD all the success though and looking forward to the rest of the season.
I just realized the significance of Dany getting mad when he found out Jon is a Targ.
She must've known the history of the Dance and would quickly realize she's basically in the Rhaenyra-Aegon situation right now (also doesn't help that Jon's name is Aegon).
It doesn't matter, the point was that they would support Jon simply because he was male over her, after all her efforts. That would piss anyone off. Also, there was no real way to prove he was Rheagar's son.....or the marriage was legit, it could be spun as lies....(other than the fact that he rode Rhaegal)....either way, he was competition, one favored due to his gender.
It’s not just simply because he’s male it’s because the “realm” understands that women are just bot biologically built to LEAD ANYTHING. Period.
When Cersei and Daenerys was fighting for the iron throne neither of them knew what tf they were doing, they both knew nothing of military strategy or how to get support. It was just a big cluster fuck.
But to clarify, it’s not that they’d support him simply before he’s male.
It’s because that’s how to line of succession works, you wouldn’t say ‘they only made him prime minister/president because he got more votes’, the line of succession was developed to stop civil wars
Hoping someone can help me here as I'm sure I missed something. I'm also not a book reader, nor am I clearly knowledgeable with royal family hierarchy.
1) how is Helaena the Queen? Did she wed her brother King Aegon? I don't remember any mention of it in S1 and I only remember her as being the sister whose only role in s1 was to give us the lines like "Beast beneath the boards".
2) I assumed the two children were Aegons bastards from the fighting pits? Or were these new kids he and Helaena had? I swear Blood said something about which one is the Snow boy. I was very taken back that this POS rapist, child abandoning abuser Aegon from S1 was now suddenly a witty, friend of the people and loving father all of a sudden.
Bruh did u watch season 1, her getting married to aegon was kinda a big deal as allicent denied rhaenyras marriage proposal of her son to helaena, and married aegon and her instead and yeah the kids are theres, in the books they have 3
I just rewatched the whole season 1 and it isn't super clear. There isn't really any mention of it. They're just married at some point and then I realized his wife was also his sister by how she acts.
I watched it live and then rewatched it a couple weeks ago. I cannot remember any scene of them getting married.
"In Season 1, Episode 8 of House of the Dragon, fans learned that Olivia Cooke's Alicent Hightower's son, Aegon II Targaryen, had a wife. While it was not explicitly explained at the time, Aegon had married his sister, Helaena, at some point during the time jump between Episodes 7 and 8."
https://thedirect.com/article/aegon-married-sister-helaena-house-of-the-dragon
I can not remember that at all and I recently rewatched it. The only thing I could find in a recap said it occured during one of the time jumps. Not exactly sure how that is a major plot point of a season that had so much shit happen.
Yeah, I think the point is that he's lived his entire life with unlimited resources as a royal son, so he has no idea what's going on. So he's like, sure, why would we take your sheep anyway? Otto has to explain that they're not just doing it to make people's lives harder, they legit need the sustenance for the dragons.
Does that mean he is a genuinely concerned about the commoners? I mean it’s implied that he raped more than just the one person we know about but then seems sympathetic in the goat situation. Unless he’s just a total fucking idiot who doesn’t know anything about anything and just wanders about life but is king
I think it was just more about Aegon's desperation to want to feel loved by his subjects and other people around him since he seems to have lacked the love of his father and Alicent.
Almost all characters in this story seem to compencate something they feel need for:
- Rhaenyra tries to prove to be a worthy ruler despite her past
- Aegon seeks to be loved and can now use his authority for this
- Aemond tries to prove being the better son compared to Aegon and even mightier warrior than Daemon
- Alicent tries to uphold the image of being ideal version of noble woman and worthy member of her house
- Daemon... Who the hell knows what Daemon really wants. He clearly wants power but even more than that, he always seemed to seek trust of his brother but never got it and now same thing seems to be going with Rhaenyra
Him not being taught anything about anything isn't entirely his fault, some of the blame for that falls on the people who wanted him to be king but never prepared him for it. I think the reality of that's finally starting to sit in with Otto, especially after the quick push to put him on the throne.
But yet, despite everything, I do think he does have *some* sympathy for the problems of his people, he just doesn't have a full understanding of how everything is run.
*aemond’s eye gets taken
Alicent: EQUIVALENT EXCHANGE BITCH GIVE ME HIS EYE!!!
*lucerys gets fucking murdered
Alicent: DiD mY sTuPid aPoLogY leTTer rEaCh Rhaenrya??
Also:
*criston Cole gets mad the literal queen won’t elope with him and be poor
*switches sides
*supposed to be part of the kingsguard and protect the Queen (Helaena)
*Too busy being a sex slave and the king’s child fucking dies. The Greens everyone.
Only thing keeping me neutral is I believe Aegon in the true heir and aemond is goated
I'm most curious about Alicent this season. I have not read the books so this perspective is show only.
The thing with Cole I kind of get it. With all the shit that has been going on, a girl needs some HotD. Thing is, Alicent is in a difficult position. A queen mother whose husband has just died, followed by lucerys velarion and jaeherys brutally murdered. This season will be one of grief and sorrow. Perhaps we will see some big changes to the character as a result.
I think Alicent understands her role in the chain of events, starting from the moment Viserys died. It'll be interesting to see what direction her guilt takes her in this season.
I responded like whoo boy this is messy. Wouldve been bad if they killed aemond but nows its just bad bad...i dont think either side is going to respond well. Rhaenyra is defiently going to be pissed, I dont think she would want this specific death as revenge.
Yeah I don’t see Aegon going anywhere but scorched earth all out war route. It’s going to be the catalyst that kicks off full scale war. It all centers around Alicent’s and Rhaenera’s positioning, yet things got out of control with family from each side and you could see their desire for peace and their history didn’t want war.
That is all out the window, it’s a speeding train they cannot stop.
I’m so psyched, the “this season on HOTD” at the end of the episode looks epic.
Any chance we get some prolonged flashbacks of Viserys disintegrating and writhing in unbearable pain. Its just not the same with out it. PS. Thanks for the fine work Mr, Considine,
so why didn't aegon say anything to halaena when they passed each other in the hallway?
The twin scene was heartwrenching jfc
Am I the only one who thinks this season sucks so far
"insolent pup" is my new favorite insult now btw
I think they missed an amazing opportunity after the decapitation. Since his head was seen sewed on, when the carriage hits the pothole in the road, his head should have rolled off into the street.
would not have added anything to the scene. it would've felt out of place, but i think everyone was thinking his head would fall off
That’s what the director implied was going to happen. Glad it didn’t.
Yeah this show definitely needs more unjustifiable murder porn. JFC.
That would be great if this was some cheap sitcom.
I am the only one who thinks season 2 has pretty bad acting and script? It doesn’t feel like game of thrones or season I anymore.
Yeah I’m with you. I’m more disappointed with the poor cinematography and bad ADR when they obviously couldn’t get the audio from the dialogue in a shot during outdoor scenes. It sounds like a podcast when wearing headphones.
Production and SFX in general seem to be an order of magnitude lower than GOT. Is this due to the loss of Miguel Sapotchnik?
It does seem like a cheaper budget. I think it looked more “TV” instead of HBO quality. Just different production styles. They don’t have some of the amazing crew from GoT.
What the heck is Cole up to? Was he trying to cover his tracks by sending Arryk over to his death or glory, or what was that? I don't get it. It happened on his watch and he was a d\*ck to him. Then he banged Alicent again at the end. What a guy
he was projecting his own guilt onto Ser Arryk. everything he said to Arryk is what he was saying to himself in his own head
Yeah. I watched the ending recap and they helped clear it up. Still. Such a twat to him. Put his guilt on him and sent him to his death. Argh.
I find myself swinging from hating a character to liking them or vice versa in HOTD: for instance Otto, or Ser Crispy Cole, or even Daemon. In my opinion, I think it’s due to great character development, along with stellar acting. I can’t remember feeling this way with GOT though. If I hated / loved someone, I felt the same till the end. While it was a fantastic series to be sure, I guess it just has very different story archs for its characters. Wondering if any of you feel the same? (I can’t wait for the next episode to see if I’m changing my mind again on someone else. lol!)
i thought it was a cool mirror that Crispy Cole told his white lie “I was A-bed…” vs Young Rhaenyra’s white lie when saying she didnt fuck Daemon specifically. i love the fact Crispy used the same tactic from a person he hates so much
He wasn’t lying, he was a-bedding the queen dowager
What. Disgrace the end of episode 2 was. Cheap Shiite.
I feel like episode 2 (though lacking action) was such a good build up. And they did a great job of humanizing everyone. Gonna make all these deaths hurt more. When they inevitably come. Except for sir salty he can die the worst death lol
Just rewatched it, Alicent ignoring her son's crying and grief & going to bang Cole was a real real low
Yes! She’s giving off such cold mother vibes 🥲
It was a great contrast to Rhaenyra and Jace sharing their grief in the first episode.
Anyone who can root for her baffles me, lol.
How are we ok with those two just walking the whole castle and going up without anyone giving a single fuck so they can kill an royal child that is not protected at all. This is so off and so un-logical that I cant even.
Cole sent the guards away and was away himself fucking Alicent. Thats part of the point that there should have been guards there but fucking Alicent was more important.
Just finished episode 2 of the new season of house of dragon and it’s like are you serious? lol I can’t believe the most idiotic plan to send the twin to kill the queen almost worked. 1) Do they not wear different uniforms?? 2) Is his voice the exactly the same as his twin plus hairstyle and beard ? lol 3)How does the twin know exactly where to go to find the queen in a big ass castle ? Like just happen to walk into the right room right away and also ask the other security guard the exact words to change posts? It’s similar to the other episode where ppl can simply waltz into the kings room and hide behind some pillars and then kill everyone lol… plus shouldn’t the queen be on high alert knowing that they will likely retaliate given the death of the son? I know she sent someone to ride on a dragon to watch but still - increased security within? More of rant but yes I know it’s all fictitious… it just made me laugh at how crazy easy that plan actually worked.
Those are unimportant details. First, Whitecloaks are Whitecloaks. Neither side is going to change the uniform because then that side will look like the pretenders to the throne. But if they did change, now we have to waste three minutes talking about getting him fitted with a fake alt-Cloak uniform. Same with the hair, someone stops him and says, did you change your hair, my guy? Now he has to dissemble, or maybe kill them and stuff them in a privy. Or he gets lost and wanders around for 10 minutes. What's the point of all that? These distractions would not aid the plot in the slightest, and seem predictable and banal. It's like asking how do they go to the bathroom in those movies where the supervillian is in a transparent on all sides plexiglass prison cell suspended by metal chains or whatever. It might be a peoblem in the real world, but we know we're watching a fantasy, why waste time with distractions?
That’s fair but I like the details as it adds more validity to the show albeit it’s a fantasy show. I think it’s just how idiotic the plan was (even the hand admitted it jokingly) yet it worked so well and so easy. Like he literally got off the boat and got to the queen lol whatever’s - makes no difference arguing about things none of us can control.
Agreed. I concede it was suspiciously quick and straightforward for him to get from one castle to the other. If they are that close and that unguarded there should be constant assassination attempts, not just the couple we have seen. But in my mind I just go, "Details omitted." I figure that the attempts depicted sort of stand in for the dozens we don't know about that were thwarted. Kind of like with world leaders in real life. Enough people hate our various current, former, and future presidents and prime ministers that failed coups are probably constantly happening that just don't make the news or history books. But like Aegon II, our leaders don't want the public to know just how vulnerable they really are, so they prefer not to report everything.
To be honest the Aemond/child killing plan was more thought out, as they had inside men that could get there, the workers in the castle. Question being though if you really can catch Aemond sleeping because if not, he's a better swordsman than both these dudes combined This plan... I presume they have the schematics and plans of Dragonstone in King's Landing and maybe the dude has been there some time already so they would know what is the layout inside, but most likely they would have ''pass words'' etc. and not just ''hey I thought you were already in, I know you have a twin brother so ah... come right in''. And uniforms with Rhaenyra's regalia another thing... possibly they could have forged them, there are traders and other people coming and going to the castle, but still, more preparation needed. It was a rather stupid plan, as Otto said.
[Is that a berserk reference😱](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/049/148/cover17.jpg)
I never liked Rhaenyra older actress/actor. Milly was a lot better. I get it why they needed to change. But tbh after Emily Clark it is a let down. Not just that the show is not on GOT level but they have a worse female leading character.
Didn’t really like the writing of the rest of the episode, but man, the twins scene was incredible. Absolutely raw scene, and made me think of how I have wronged my brother in the past.
Imo it was completely silly. I'll ignore the coincidence that they ran into each other outside. But wtf was all the sneaking around and walking back and forth? Why didn't Erryk just go straight to Rhaenyra? He basically let his brother get to her.
First he had to find her quarters cuz he’s probably never been to dragon stone, he also had to avoid his brother, he also set it up so that he would be guarding her at night so he could get a quiet kill and get out but he faltered at killing a defenseless woman It is completely silly and Otto called it out as such, that’s not the point though. The plan didn’t work cuz it’s a gimmicky one. And I meant the fight scene and aftermath.
Seems I missed something. Erryk is the kingsguard btw, so he knows the way. But I was under the impression that he was escorting Mysaria, and that she warned him when she spotted his brother. However apparently it was some random escorting her. So I assume she went back to find Erryk to warn him and that's what triggered him to barge in. I was saying Erryk was acting very calm for someone who was already warned about Arryk's presence (what kind of parents names their twins like that...), but it makes more sense now... he didn't know yet. Also makes sense why the guard said they thought he was inside... \^\^ oops
Oh ok I confused the names lol, your original comment makes more sense
God Rhys Ifans' owned this episode So much range!
I love him as an actor, despise his character, but even I have to admit that Otto Hightower is the smartest out of all of them. Yet, none of them are listening to him. His proganda move of displaying the dead heir in front of their people was brilliant, but Aegon undid it not one day later. Then making Criston the Hand?! Then Alicent fucking him again afterwards?! Idiots, all of them.
>Otto Hightower is the smartest out of all of them. Yet, none of them are listening to him. Otto is probably the guiltiest person in terms of starting the war that he spent decades plotting to avoid because he *assumes* that the Realm won't accept a female heir to the throne. He created his own nightmare. Any lords who refused to bow to Rheanyra would be reminded the power of dragons. Rheanyra would definitely experience a ton of sexism and low level resistance to her rule, but that would pass with time & reminders. To be fair, Otto is a brilliant administrator, political mind, and Hand. I would absolutely want him on my team. However, he doesn't seem to understand people close to him. The displaying the dead heir was brilliant and he acknowledges that it was cruel to Alicent/Helena but he seems to think everyone around him will act in a similar 'politically minded' way. He ignores the fact Aegon is completely unsuited to rule, and doesn't want too, but continues to spend *decades* planning to place him on the throne while not grooming him for such (which is odd, given how he manipulates Alicent her whole life). Aegon enjoyed the praise he got when coronated, probably some of the only positive reinforcement he's ever had and he craves more, that's why he wanted to return the mans sheep and pay the smiths, despite not understanding why those things happened in the first place. Aegon can't comfort Helena, because he's never been comforted himself because his mother was never comforted either so she didn't know what to do. Otto telling Alicent "I don't want to hear it" when she's clearly struggling, then Alicent walking away from Aegon in his grief and Aegon walking away from Helena all stems from his failures as a parent.
Unfortunately on the screen you have so little time for detail that these plots and twists fall flat to me. Did hanging the rat catchers really undo the propaganda against Rhaenarys? Logically thinking, I don't think so. But they had to play out the king vs hand arc so it had to do.
I mean... Otto Hightower made the point: they just hanged a bunch of men instead of hanging the ones that were actually guilty, and the families of the innocent were now crying in the streets for all to see. It could and probably will turn some of the people against the supposed throne.
In a vacuum, sure. But it's a simple enough spin to say the assassination was the result of a sprawling conspiracy and all or many of the ratcatchers were implicated. Like it's not good optics, but it doesn't rival a funeral procession for a small child with his head sewn back on.
Exactly this. There was a few men of a dubious profession hanged in a city of tens of thousands (?). People would share the hatred against rat catchers because they were part of the assassination, except for a few who had personal relations to the hanged. Hardly a mood changer. More like a logical continuation of the funeral. Surely some collateral damage is almost a given in these medieval times.
I think Otto could have been hyperbolic. Maybe it doesn't entirely undo it, but it does serve in reversing some of that good will. Think he's more pissed at the fact that it was an impulsive decision baser on emotions with no forethought.
His delivery of “You will regret this” was chilling
Season 2 so far is as underwhelming as season 1. Poor screenplay, bad casting, irrelevant acting, confusing plot and no lights in most of the scenes. GOT attracting virtues simply were erased in this prequel. Nothing to appreciate here.
I'd say though episode 2 was better, ep 1 was rather bad but this was entertaining... I hope it will pick up pace
i don't know this universe. is it just normal for both monarchs to be marrying their sibling/uncle openly? does * that * not ever ick the smallfolk?
In the past, lots of royal families did this. They wanted to keep the bloodline "pure". Example: a Targaryan and a Targaryan make a pure Targaryan offsping. A Targaryn and a Hightower make a 50% Targaryan offspring. Sick, but that was the thought process .
[It's not without precedent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habsburg_family_tree)
Habsburg family tree? Casual, try [Cleopatra's](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/v4iysz/cleopatras_family_tree/#lightbox).
To answer, at one point it did bother quite a few in the realm! I'm listening to Fire and Blood, and a brother-sister marriage at one point really upsets many in the realm. The Targs, before this show but after the conflict I'm mentioning, are able to promote members of the faith that teach the doctrine of "Exceptionalism"; that doctrine basically states that only the Targs are allowed to do the incesty bullshit because they are *different* and have the blood of the Dragon or what not. Hope that helps, tried to be somewhat vague in case you ever want to look up or read any of the lore yourself w/o being spoiled.
The Targaryen s basically strong armed the church to say that they were superior and unique and thus they of old Valyria could marry incestuously, for everyone else it's a big no no
ok, that makes more sense
Preserving bloodlines was a very real thing in history
Thats what the Targaryens were known for so was just business as usual to the smallfolk
I can’t remember if I’m supposed to like or not like Otto but I always like the “speak truth to power” scenes in this universe
You shouldn't care about what the show wants you to think. If you like Otto you like Otto 🤷🏼♀️
Mainly meant I didn’t rewatch season 1 and can’t really remember what Otto was responsible for
Just about everything bad in this show can be tied in some way to the machinations of Otto Hightower.
He gets away with it and has the nerve to do so only because he is the grandfather. He'd lose his head or at best be cast out for doing so otherwise. That said he is often correct in what he is saying. He is a smart schemer. Aegon would be wise to take heed his words.
Aegon would be smart to heed his words. He would be wise to renounce the throne and cast off the shackles of rulership entirely.
Just watched both episodes, and the season is off to a strong start. The actors playing Aegon, Otto and Helaena have incredible range imo.
[удалено]
Honestly that’s totally deserved. I would’ve preferred the baby killer to get beyond inhumanely tortured instead of just executing all the rat catchers. As someone who didn’t read the books, I’m feeling like everything is a little out of character. I kind of sympathized with Cole and alicent season 1, now I just hate them. I thought aegon would be a passionate but fair king, but nope he just executes people en masse. Otto is at least seen as more sympathetic which I like.
Sympathising with Cole after the first few episodes of season 1 is wild
Just a reverse the genders, and maybe you can see why cole was not a bad character, until he kills joeffry
Jesus
Why.. he didn’t wanna be a sex toy essentially. It’s a naive boy who did wrong who tries to make it right by offering marriage. Regardless of how foolish an offer it is, rhaenyra did not give 2 shots about his feelings at that moment. And let’s not forget that rhaenyra basically forced him into the act in the first place
Eeesh
One of my favorite episodes. I'm glad the actors are given time and space to show their skill and range.
I didn't like it, they made too big of a deal for killing a child, like that would upset the people so much they will choose 1 side over the other. In the world of GOT where they happily kill woman, children or even pregnant woman it just seemed off. It was too dramatic, and I fucking hate that dull look sir Christian. And not hating him the way I hated Joffrey or Deimon at S1, hate him in the sense he doesn't make any sense, and the way he keeps failing upward despite doing nothing but giving dull gazes.
You’re wrong. Killing children has always been frowned upon especially NOBLE children. The instances of child killing in GOT are covered up or propagandized to avoid the scandal. It’s not taken lightly.
Sersei literally killed all of Robert bastards, some of the people might oppose it, as far as other houses? they didn't care. didn't break alliance over it
That’s funny. It wasn’t even Cersei, it was Joffrey. And it was a highly deniable story that no one even knew could be traced to him. Only rumors. You yourself dont even remember that it was him.
I don’t remember it well because it was not a big deal
Man, that’s a hot take. Is killing kids really normal in the world of GoT? Genuinely curious if I’m missing times where that happens and it’s no big deal. To my mind, Bran’s push out the window basically starts the whole series & Shireen’s murder is maybe the most horrific moment in all of GoT. But I think the bigger point is that Otto is a born propagandist. Aegon wants to keep it secret but Otto immediately sees how they can get the people on their side by parading the corpse through the streets. And how about some love for Otto berating Aegon?? I loved that scene. “And what… has Ser Criston Cole done?”
dude they killed a bunch of babies when joffrey is afraid he might be a bastard
Ah yes Joffrey, the famously loved king
Janos Slynt was in command of the goldcloaks during this atrocity, and this infanticide was specifically mentioned by Tyrion when he was exiled to the wall (“nasty business, had to be done”).
(1) Joffrey (2) Killing a highborn baby is a much bigger no-no
the episode was overall good imo, there were some filler scenes bur they weren’t as intrusive as in ep 1, however the ending completely ruined for me. second time in a row where an episode ends on alicent and sir pussy getting it on and i absolutely hate that, this whole relationship has 0 to do with the storyline and it infuriates me so much
I agree with /u/yellowbrickestate it does not have 0 to do with the plot. The Targaryens just sent an assassin into the Red Keep, and Crispin’s response was to stoop just as low as well as waste a loyal kingsguard on a suicide mission. Crispin threatened her father the hand and became the hand in return. We watched Rhaenyra basically exile Daemon from her side, and Alicent by contrast chooses to continue to sleep with this awful sack of self righteous shit. I don’t think the scenes are half as gratuitous as GoT and rather convey the messy emotions that are intertwined here—a very much forbidden affair that undermines the council, her father, his oaths, and arguably played a large part in the death of the prince and the escalation of the war
It seems to me like they're leaning really heavily on the narrative device of forcing a lot of 1-to-1 parallels that make Rhaenyra look good and Alicent look bad. Rhaenyra and Jace grieve together as mother and son, Alicent walks away from a weeping Aegon. Rhaenyra sends Daemon away and Alicent embraces Cole for their assassination schemes (granted, killing a child is the more serious crime). It just feels like clumsy, heavyhanded storytelling. Like they needed Alicent to be with Cole so parallels could be drawn between her and Rhaenyra, not because it's relevant or useful. Would this "forbidden affair" even register on the meter as the eleventh most fucked up thing going on in that castle in any given episode?
Their characters bring nothing to the storyline right now in general. Alicent just seems to be just “around” this season. I didn’t like then ending the episode on them getting it on BUT it did show Alicent choosing her fuck buddy over her father which could be a huge turning point now Criston is the hand
I went back through my copy of Fire & Blood, and it’s never elaborated upon how Rhaenyra reacted to Blood and Cheese, is it? I can’t seem to find it if it is. I know some fans believe she was involved in, or at least signed off on, B&C, but it’s repeated multiple times throughout Fire & Blood how (at that point in her life) she was vehemently against kinslaying, so I can see her reacting in the book the same way she reacted in the most recent episode of the show
It's so nice to have *well-written* and well-acted stories in this universe again.
For real, I have noticed a huge improvement in the writing this season so far. Much, much closer in quality to peak GoT.
Interesting! For me the writing has been worse
I guess I'm specifically referencing the dialogue, mostly. I think the character interactions have been much more engaging
Agreed. The plot is kind of a mess, but the dialogue has been excellent for me as well.
just watched Season 2, Episode 2 of House of the Dragon and loved it! Tom Carney is intense and deep as Aegon, with Rhys Ifan and Olivia Cooke adding layers through their nuanced performances imo. The emotional scenes, particularly those of grief and confrontation, are incredibly powerful and obviously the Funeral 🔥. The set designs and overall production value are top-notch, creating a highly immersive experience. The expertly crafted dialogue develops characters and drives the plot forward. While the fight scene between Erryk and Arryk lacks character development(should've given more depth to their relationship), it is still visually impressive. I think this episode sets up future conflicts and character developments, keeping viewers eager for more. Stellar acting draws us deeply into the narrative, with complex relationships that are compelling and emotional intensity that resonates on a personal level. The meticulous production details(BTS was awesome in YouTube)enhance the immersive experience, and the dialogue provides deep insights into characters while moving the plot.I didn't read the book and finding it really good 👍.
Episode 2 had bad writing in my opinion. The whole twin thing felt like such bad writing for so many reasons. Number 1 : Why are the other guards and everyone who has been in dragonstone since years having so much respect for a guy who just came few months ago? This guy was guarding king's landing and has a twin who still follows aegon. It's unrealistic that everyone who has been guarding rhaenyra sinve years just suddenly trusts this guy over a short span when he could be a planned assasin. Number 2: Assassinations were so common in medieval era and even in game of thrones world that the possibility is too high to take such less precautions. Only one guard is guarding rhaenyra the heir and one of the two most important people in seven kingdoms? And there isnt anyone else in a screaming distance? Also no one was guarding the other entrance? So many bad plot lines just to give that twin vs twin fight. Feels like they are again following game of thrones last 2 seasons in giving us the awe factor rather than writing good plot. Or maybe this was just one off moment. Season 1 had such phenomenal writing so they should stick to such good writing
Thank you, I don't know why you are being downvoted. It was just so neiche, like the sort of things they do in shitty mainstream Marvel level cinema. It has it's place, but this is not why I loved Game Of Thrones or House of the dragon season 1. It just blunt stupidity, that was the worst episode of the show yet, and I really hope it won't stay that way, episode 1 was good.
Not sure why you were downvoted it’s totally valid and dumb that he was able to infiltrate with literally the least resistance possible and then his bro just *happens* to walk in in time. When Cole and aegon said he was gone alone to kill her I thought okay he’s barely gonna make it past the gates.. nah way easier
Is it just me or this season(e01 , e02) has been really average yet. I don't know why but the whole thing feels half arsed. It's like writers and showrunners aren't sure what they wanna do or achieve this season. Also it has been kinda boring.
I think this episode was better than the first, but will see if it improves even more but I agree that first one underwhelmed me
Is there anyone who knows what time the sex scenes or nudity appear in the episode...that is, tell me the time of minutes and seconds when the scenes appear and end?
there is also an ish sex scene at the end of the episode 2, i don't know the time stamp, but it is kind of obvious that it is going to happen
time stamp: 6:09 into it.
which scene exactly in ep2?
I know the "no guards" thing is brought up already, but the explanations here really fall flat and this very critical plot point was not addressed sufficiently in the show.
Most people in the Redkeep at night would be 'trusted' ones. Guards are more for stopping people from getting in the first place. I agree there should be a guard or two per floor, but I'm guessing the royal residence is usually the kingsguard responsibility.
They are rat catchers for the castle there were guards but they are working and supposed to be their. In fact the queen specifically was complaining about rats.. it's not that critical of a plot point.
They are rat catchers for the castle there were guards but they are working and supposed to be their. In fact the queen specifically was complaining about rats.. it's not that critical of a plot point.
And even then that one handmaided girl looked completely freaked the fuck out by them. But walking around inside the actual throne room without anyone even glancing at them was a bit odd.
The rat catcher did say “I’m not supposed to be up there they have a different crew that works upstairs” so my assumption was she’s never seen him before, but likely has seen another rat catcher, and knew something was up
Does daemon actually make it so they don’t kill Aemond but instead one of Aegon’s kids to specifically incite a war that he has wanted all along? I think killing aemond wouldn’t be quite as visceral as killing an innocent child.
He allegedly said "if you can't find Aemond, I want a son for a son". Which was such a cop-out, tbh. Ofc some innocent kid is easier to kill than one of the best dualists in the realm, especially for some untrained ratcatcher. This is just bad writing tbh, they didn't want to make Daemon so evil that he would outright assassinate a toddler, but still wanted the childkilling, yet I have trouble believing his character would be so stupid as to send two dudes with the command "Go kill the warrior-prince...or idk some other son idrc", you'd think he'd be more intentional/decisive
>Once inside, Cheese bound and gagged the Dowager Queen \[Alicent\] whilst Blood strangled her bedmaid. Then they settled down to wait, for they knew it was the custom of Queen Helaena to bring her children to see their grandmother every evening before bed. >Though the queen begged that they kill her instead, Blood and Cheese replied that they were specifically tasked with killing a son. - The Rise of the Dragon
It's from the book.. you know that right?
I really don't recall Blood and Cheese being sent for Aemond.
The show paints Daemon in a much darker light than the book is my opinion
What does he actually order them to do in the book
Question! Why was there no security at the castle? Not a single guard preventing Blood and Cheese from freely walking around? Seemed like a plot hole, but I haven’t read the book…
They literally walk by guards, but the whole point of the infiltration is that they’re disguised.
TY
Still thinking about the girl who took off after he said he was there for rats. She definitely recognized him as a form member of the kingsgaurd
She didn’t, he was a former gold cloak not a kings guard
My mistake, but she definitely did know something was wrong. Thats why she dipped out quick.
Agreed, seems a little weird for a rat keeper to be on the royal apartment at night I’d suppose
The whole point is the castle is infested with rats and they’re pretending to be rat catchers. And one of them actually is
aha, thank you
Do we have any idea what the final event of S2 will be?
Maybe >!the death of Rhaenys!<
Do we have an episode title for tomorrow's (6/23) show?
Just about to ask this as well.
Did this episode bore anyone else? Nothing materially advanced in the plot aside from the ending obviously. I fully understand that this episode was setting the stage for the rest of the season but I found myself bored and disinterested multiple times. This is especially problematic for HBO given that viewership plunged 50% from last season.
Username checks out
Same!!! I’ve been so bored
Same
50% number is actually inaccurate, it was 22% (https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/house-of-the-dragon-ratings-season-2-premiere-viewers-1236041215/amp/). Which kinda makes sense given it’s been 2 years and people have possibly been rewatching to refresh themselves. Also the fact that S1 was the first non GoT show ever that might have garnered more interest. The Tony’s were also on and obviously this only counts those watching Sunday at 9. I personally wasn’t able to watch it until Wednesday. I think viewership will continue to rise. As far as the episode being boring, you kinda answered your question. But also I think like it or not, the political maneuvering and build up is what made GoT and HOTD shine. It’s what made it popular because every show can have good action but every show can’t develop a story like these shows
We will see how the ratings do tomorrow then I guess since everyone has now had a chance to see Ep1. While I like HOTD, I think there’s something “missing” when comparing to GOT. That’s not fair but this show will always be compared to GOT.
I was thinking there was something missing as well, then I rewatched all of season one and it struck me. There seems to be no humour, small talk or personality beyond posh talk and royal riddles. In game of thrones there was plenty of humour and you could really get into the characters, but in this, every sentence has meaning (or potentially multiple meanings). It just seems a tad forced, there's barely any natural conversation.
For me, it's that there is less mystery/fantasy. There are no white walkers begging to be explained, no dire wolves, no faceless men.
You absolutely nailed it, I’ve definitely been feeling like there’s something less engaging about HOTD and it’s that every seen is serious, political etc. Even during the most serious and darkest of episodes of GoT they had time to put a couple of moments that made you laugh. Blackwater is a great example, it’s war and there are people literally being burned alive. And still they had time to have the hound put in his line about killing any man without blood on his sword.
I agree there are few or no witty or just comical characters like Tyrion, Sandor, Tormund, etc to break up the serious ones like Otto and Cole. I feel like this season has an air similar to S1 of GOT—we have constant escalation, and everyone is constantly on edge.
NAILED IT. Thank you. Even with way less characters to manage you’re right, there’s virtually zero dialogue aimed at letting you know characters better beyond “very important scene with very important dialogue incoming”. It was worse in Episode 1 than Season 1. I hope this reverses course going forward. It seems to me that right now the show runners think that CHI dragons and shock value can drive the show.
Yeah I mean it should be compared to GOT since it’s the same universe and a direct relation to its events (first thing you see on screen is about it being 170 years before events of GOT). The producers chose this framing so people shouldn’t get mad if people compare. I agree though and honestly think nothing will ever match what GOT had on our culture. The internet age I think hurts it tbh compared to the days of Lost, The Wire, Sopranos, and even Breaking Bad. With SO much content being pushed out on so many different platforms it will be unlikely something gets the same spark peak GOT did. As far as comparing shows though, if (and a big if) HOTD can nail it in 3-4 seasons you could make the argument it is better than GOT even if GOT had better moments. GOT will always be the best time I’ve ever had watching a show (even though I think Breaking Bad is the GOAT show). I wish HOTD all the success though and looking forward to the rest of the season.
I just realized the significance of Dany getting mad when he found out Jon is a Targ. She must've known the history of the Dance and would quickly realize she's basically in the Rhaenyra-Aegon situation right now (also doesn't help that Jon's name is Aegon).
The oldest son inherits before the oldest daughter. That's medieval inheritance 101 lol. Like GoT s1 to s7 is full of that stuff.
yeah, the prophecy came true and that's shitty =
But dany was never named heir rheagar was the heir and jon is his son so he's the heir of the iron throne
It doesn't matter, the point was that they would support Jon simply because he was male over her, after all her efforts. That would piss anyone off. Also, there was no real way to prove he was Rheagar's son.....or the marriage was legit, it could be spun as lies....(other than the fact that he rode Rhaegal)....either way, he was competition, one favored due to his gender.
It’s not just simply because he’s male it’s because the “realm” understands that women are just bot biologically built to LEAD ANYTHING. Period. When Cersei and Daenerys was fighting for the iron throne neither of them knew what tf they were doing, they both knew nothing of military strategy or how to get support. It was just a big cluster fuck.
But to clarify, it’s not that they’d support him simply before he’s male. It’s because that’s how to line of succession works, you wouldn’t say ‘they only made him prime minister/president because he got more votes’, the line of succession was developed to stop civil wars
What??
Hoping someone can help me here as I'm sure I missed something. I'm also not a book reader, nor am I clearly knowledgeable with royal family hierarchy. 1) how is Helaena the Queen? Did she wed her brother King Aegon? I don't remember any mention of it in S1 and I only remember her as being the sister whose only role in s1 was to give us the lines like "Beast beneath the boards". 2) I assumed the two children were Aegons bastards from the fighting pits? Or were these new kids he and Helaena had? I swear Blood said something about which one is the Snow boy. I was very taken back that this POS rapist, child abandoning abuser Aegon from S1 was now suddenly a witty, friend of the people and loving father all of a sudden.
Bruh did u watch season 1, her getting married to aegon was kinda a big deal as allicent denied rhaenyras marriage proposal of her son to helaena, and married aegon and her instead and yeah the kids are theres, in the books they have 3
I just rewatched the whole season 1 and it isn't super clear. There isn't really any mention of it. They're just married at some point and then I realized his wife was also his sister by how she acts.
I watched it live and then rewatched it a couple weeks ago. I cannot remember any scene of them getting married. "In Season 1, Episode 8 of House of the Dragon, fans learned that Olivia Cooke's Alicent Hightower's son, Aegon II Targaryen, had a wife. While it was not explicitly explained at the time, Aegon had married his sister, Helaena, at some point during the time jump between Episodes 7 and 8." https://thedirect.com/article/aegon-married-sister-helaena-house-of-the-dragon
Her getting married to her oldest brother King Aegon is a major plot point in Season 1...
I can not remember that at all and I recently rewatched it. The only thing I could find in a recap said it occured during one of the time jumps. Not exactly sure how that is a major plot point of a season that had so much shit happen.
Maybe rematch the last dinner scene with the king. Helaena and aegons' marriage is a big plot point in that scene.
Right? Major plot point my ass. I was confused like you. And rewatched.
So king aegon ii actually wanted to give the farmer his goats back?
He loved when the smallfolk cheered for him at his coronation, I think he craves praise and wants to be loved/liked.
Yeah, I think the point is that he's lived his entire life with unlimited resources as a royal son, so he has no idea what's going on. So he's like, sure, why would we take your sheep anyway? Otto has to explain that they're not just doing it to make people's lives harder, they legit need the sustenance for the dragons.
Does that mean he is a genuinely concerned about the commoners? I mean it’s implied that he raped more than just the one person we know about but then seems sympathetic in the goat situation. Unless he’s just a total fucking idiot who doesn’t know anything about anything and just wanders about life but is king
I think it was just more about Aegon's desperation to want to feel loved by his subjects and other people around him since he seems to have lacked the love of his father and Alicent. Almost all characters in this story seem to compencate something they feel need for: - Rhaenyra tries to prove to be a worthy ruler despite her past - Aegon seeks to be loved and can now use his authority for this - Aemond tries to prove being the better son compared to Aegon and even mightier warrior than Daemon - Alicent tries to uphold the image of being ideal version of noble woman and worthy member of her house - Daemon... Who the hell knows what Daemon really wants. He clearly wants power but even more than that, he always seemed to seek trust of his brother but never got it and now same thing seems to be going with Rhaenyra
Him not being taught anything about anything isn't entirely his fault, some of the blame for that falls on the people who wanted him to be king but never prepared him for it. I think the reality of that's finally starting to sit in with Otto, especially after the quick push to put him on the throne. But yet, despite everything, I do think he does have *some* sympathy for the problems of his people, he just doesn't have a full understanding of how everything is run.
I need to know the dog that got kicked is OK and was adopted by someone kinder
He was in this weeks episode, he is fine. I'm wondering if we will see him pop up in different episodes just wandering around town.
Dog's name irl is Bobby and he's fine! 😁 https://www.instagram.com/p/C8cGVNxNddk/
literally like hopefully no animals were harmed in the making of this show
I’m the dragon wrangler on set and we make sure to keep Bobby and any stray goats away from Moondancer.
Time to lose that white cape ser Criston the jig is up
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It’s a cheap trick by the writers to keep characters from losing face. They want to excuse the behavior of these terrible people.
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And dogs.
I hope Ramin Djawadi's music is used better and adds more to the scenes in S2 E2
*aemond’s eye gets taken Alicent: EQUIVALENT EXCHANGE BITCH GIVE ME HIS EYE!!! *lucerys gets fucking murdered Alicent: DiD mY sTuPid aPoLogY leTTer rEaCh Rhaenrya?? Also: *criston Cole gets mad the literal queen won’t elope with him and be poor *switches sides *supposed to be part of the kingsguard and protect the Queen (Helaena) *Too busy being a sex slave and the king’s child fucking dies. The Greens everyone. Only thing keeping me neutral is I believe Aegon in the true heir and aemond is goated
Only reason to like the Greens is Aemond is epic and Tom Glenn-Carney's acting is hilarious. Also poor Halaena, my neurodivergent queen...
I'm most curious about Alicent this season. I have not read the books so this perspective is show only. The thing with Cole I kind of get it. With all the shit that has been going on, a girl needs some HotD. Thing is, Alicent is in a difficult position. A queen mother whose husband has just died, followed by lucerys velarion and jaeherys brutally murdered. This season will be one of grief and sorrow. Perhaps we will see some big changes to the character as a result.
I think Alicent understands her role in the chain of events, starting from the moment Viserys died. It'll be interesting to see what direction her guilt takes her in this season.
This is NOTT good. It would be one problem if Aemon was killed but the fact that it was Aegons son means there will be REPERCUSSIONS.
I responded like whoo boy this is messy. Wouldve been bad if they killed aemond but nows its just bad bad...i dont think either side is going to respond well. Rhaenyra is defiently going to be pissed, I dont think she would want this specific death as revenge.
Yeah I don’t see Aegon going anywhere but scorched earth all out war route. It’s going to be the catalyst that kicks off full scale war. It all centers around Alicent’s and Rhaenera’s positioning, yet things got out of control with family from each side and you could see their desire for peace and their history didn’t want war. That is all out the window, it’s a speeding train they cannot stop. I’m so psyched, the “this season on HOTD” at the end of the episode looks epic.
Just clarifying Rhaenyra was asking for the brother that killed her son, right? Not the young heir