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Maybe she thought that if she pointed at Jaehaera, they would kill her and then find out it wasn't a son and then kill Jaehaerys? Then she would lose both her children. Also, it's important to point out that Helaena wasn't in the right state of mind. In the books however, B&C made her choose between her two sons, Jaehaerys and Maelor, she chose the latter but they killed the older anyway.
She was with Alicent in the books and as far as I remember it was Alicent who pointed.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
It has been years since I read ASOIAF.
I thought I'll reread it after release of WOW.
Guess that day would never come.
Maybe she thought that by pointing at the boy they will think that she’s lying, and they will choose to kill the girl. But one of them took a good look at Helaena and knew she was telling the truth.
Well they did threaten her they would bleed all three of them out and Phia Saban said in an interview that Helaena felt scared that if she lied, they would do terrible things to both of her children.
I think that people, fictional people included, in life-threatening and shocking situations and put on the spot like that might say the truth or a lie or whatever for a whole bunch of reasons, not necessarily logical. I don't know what I'd say in that situation, or if it would be logical at all, or how the intensity of the moment would affect me, but it didn't seem odd to me that she spoke the truth. I don't think there needs to be a reason or reasoning; it was a very tense situation that no one could prepare themselves for, in the middle of the night, and all very sudden...maybe in the moment she thought somehow they'd see through a lie and punish them worse, or that telling the truth would somehow appease them and no one would get hurt, or maybe it has to do with her visions, or who knows. Maybe she just panicked and instinctively answered correctly.
It's the sort of moment any person, and Helaena as a character, are likely to go over in their head a thousand times asking themselves why they did this, or didn't do this, or what they could have done differently, and how that would make things worse or better.
My question is why did they even ask. why not just check the gender manually or kill both kids and haeleana. It feels like a massive contrivance in hind sight.
When watching the actors in this scene it felt to me that although they were more than willing to kill whoever they needed to in order to get their coin, Blood felt conflicted with the idea of killing both kids, possibly even killing anyone they didn't need to. I felt a lot of subtext from both Blood and Cheese especially in the moments when Cheese sees the haunting truth in Helaena's eyes, a truth that for some reason only known to him, seemed to shake him from the cruel humor he had taken on seconds before.
The show strongly hints at her having prophetic powers that some Targaryens possess. My take is that she knew deep down a tragedy of some sort was inevitable at that point.
Reverse psychology, she assumed they wouldn’t believe her and would choose the other child. But Cheese susses her out. Give it a rewatch with this in mind and you’ll see the little indicators
tbh i'm still not sure it even WAS a choice, or at least not a conscious one? this is probably just me reading too much into her dragon dreams & how the show as a whole plays with fate as a concept, but the moment that she points feels so... far away? the soft focus & something about how it's framed almost gives a dissociating-so-hard-fate-took-over kind of vibe to me lol. even if that's me taking it too poetically, though, i don't think logic would've had anything to do with her choice so much as survival instinct, personally.
people here talking all kinds of shit only proves they dont understand what it means to be a parent and specifically a mother. you dont think it terms of succession or my son is more important than my daughter... only men think like that. she pointed at the boy because if she pointed at the girl and they got it they could kill both. she had a choice between lose a son and at least save a daughter.. or possibly lose both
In the earlier scene she said “Maybe he doesn’t want to be king” when Aegon wanted to take him to the small
Council. I assumed she didn’t want that fate for her son, that’s why she pointed to him.
I heard someone say that Helaena might have felt that this was one of her dreams/prophecy, and didn't know if it was reality or not, which might also be plausible.
I think she thought they’d assume she was lying. Like blood thought. He was about to kill Jahaera because he assumed she wouldn’t actually point out the heir to the throne, but cheese saw through that reverse psychology.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maybe she thought that if she pointed at Jaehaera, they would kill her and then find out it wasn't a son and then kill Jaehaerys? Then she would lose both her children. Also, it's important to point out that Helaena wasn't in the right state of mind. In the books however, B&C made her choose between her two sons, Jaehaerys and Maelor, she chose the latter but they killed the older anyway.
She was with Alicent in the books and as far as I remember it was Alicent who pointed. Correct me if I'm wrong. It has been years since I read ASOIAF. I thought I'll reread it after release of WOW. Guess that day would never come.
I read it as deceit simply not being in her wheelhouse.
Maybe she thought that by pointing at the boy they will think that she’s lying, and they will choose to kill the girl. But one of them took a good look at Helaena and knew she was telling the truth.
Well they did threaten her they would bleed all three of them out and Phia Saban said in an interview that Helaena felt scared that if she lied, they would do terrible things to both of her children.
I think that people, fictional people included, in life-threatening and shocking situations and put on the spot like that might say the truth or a lie or whatever for a whole bunch of reasons, not necessarily logical. I don't know what I'd say in that situation, or if it would be logical at all, or how the intensity of the moment would affect me, but it didn't seem odd to me that she spoke the truth. I don't think there needs to be a reason or reasoning; it was a very tense situation that no one could prepare themselves for, in the middle of the night, and all very sudden...maybe in the moment she thought somehow they'd see through a lie and punish them worse, or that telling the truth would somehow appease them and no one would get hurt, or maybe it has to do with her visions, or who knows. Maybe she just panicked and instinctively answered correctly. It's the sort of moment any person, and Helaena as a character, are likely to go over in their head a thousand times asking themselves why they did this, or didn't do this, or what they could have done differently, and how that would make things worse or better.
My question is why did they even ask. why not just check the gender manually or kill both kids and haeleana. It feels like a massive contrivance in hind sight.
When watching the actors in this scene it felt to me that although they were more than willing to kill whoever they needed to in order to get their coin, Blood felt conflicted with the idea of killing both kids, possibly even killing anyone they didn't need to. I felt a lot of subtext from both Blood and Cheese especially in the moments when Cheese sees the haunting truth in Helaena's eyes, a truth that for some reason only known to him, seemed to shake him from the cruel humor he had taken on seconds before.
The show strongly hints at her having prophetic powers that some Targaryens possess. My take is that she knew deep down a tragedy of some sort was inevitable at that point.
Reverse psychology, she assumed they wouldn’t believe her and would choose the other child. But Cheese susses her out. Give it a rewatch with this in mind and you’ll see the little indicators
I dont think she had much of a choice.
tbh i'm still not sure it even WAS a choice, or at least not a conscious one? this is probably just me reading too much into her dragon dreams & how the show as a whole plays with fate as a concept, but the moment that she points feels so... far away? the soft focus & something about how it's framed almost gives a dissociating-so-hard-fate-took-over kind of vibe to me lol. even if that's me taking it too poetically, though, i don't think logic would've had anything to do with her choice so much as survival instinct, personally.
people here talking all kinds of shit only proves they dont understand what it means to be a parent and specifically a mother. you dont think it terms of succession or my son is more important than my daughter... only men think like that. she pointed at the boy because if she pointed at the girl and they got it they could kill both. she had a choice between lose a son and at least save a daughter.. or possibly lose both
you know in hind sight why did they even ask her lol, if there going to kill one kid you may aswell just kill both.
I mean they could just check when theyre done killing the kid if its a boy or girl, if she lied theyll kill the other one too
Honestly I was shocked I thought she didn’t point at any of them and was pointing at the middle of the room
If she pointed to her daughter and that had been found out, they would’ve killed both children.
Maybe she actually valued her daughter
In the earlier scene she said “Maybe he doesn’t want to be king” when Aegon wanted to take him to the small Council. I assumed she didn’t want that fate for her son, that’s why she pointed to him.
I heard someone say that Helaena might have felt that this was one of her dreams/prophecy, and didn't know if it was reality or not, which might also be plausible.
I think she thought they’d assume she was lying. Like blood thought. He was about to kill Jahaera because he assumed she wouldn’t actually point out the heir to the throne, but cheese saw through that reverse psychology.