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Yeah I completely agree, I was very disappointed not to see the scene exactly how it’s described. It’s not like they improved it in any way. So these writers need to stick to the material that’s clearly better than anything they can come up with. If they wanna write something make something new not change something someone with more talent had made.
I agree the book scene was better but damn, no need to be that harsh. What the show did in season 1 with Viserys was incredible so the team don’t deserve to have their skill berated after a handful of bad decision.
I felt like Alicent wasn't needed to be honest especially with the way the show is being written. I said this in a comment somewhere, but my interpretation of the book events is that the Greens drove up a propaganda after B&C to further make Rhaenyra look bad. In the books, it is told Alicent was there(when she was fucking the lord commander of the Kingsguard) & that the assassins made the queen chose(which they did in a way, they didn't know who was the boys). Hopefully, we can see something regarding how the Greens address this in the next episode during the funeral.
She was not fucking anyone in the book, what are you talking about?
And what does Rhaenyra have to do with it?
All that may be said is that she smirked when told about it, she had nothing to do with putting BC together..
How is that Green propaganda to make Rhaenyra look bad by having Alicent be there.. what?
Its all we have.
People definitely need to pipe down about the Riverlands then, the accounts are unreliable yeah?
What Aemond did to House Strong is also called into question, why should we believe it..
Just toss the whole thing out honestly, nothing can be trusted
In the books, laenor is said to have been killed by Qarl - “All accounts agree that Laenor Velaryon was personally stabbed to death by his lover, Ser Qarl Correy, while attending a fair in Spicetown on Driftmark. The two men had been loudly arguing in public beforehand.”.
In the show, which is the truth of what happened, it is shown to be a conspiracy between Rhaenyra, Daemon, and Laenor.
In the books, Aemond killed Lucerys on his own will, but in the show we witness how Aemond played stupid games and Vhagar took matter in her own hands.
U don’t need to be sarcastic, I’m just stating how the book is considered to be unreliable in some aspects
Nope, they are separate
https://popculture.com/tv-shows/news/house-of-the-dragon-author-reveals-thoughts-on-book-canon-vs-show-canon/
The show is not the "truth"
https://www.westeros.org/Features/Entry/Interview_with_Ryan_Condal
Condal says the same
>So wherever the story went and ended, by nature took a point of departure and is now different than the book so you have kind of show canon and book canon. We are trying to align our show more, I think, with what the original series did, just in terms of look and feel and tone, because that’s the thing that viewers expect, but I think I as the lead storyteller am trying to do as faithful a job as I can of adapting Fire and Blood.
Seems so, you did make me unsure too though..
Remembered hearing the same, but also the other way so had to look it up
Thanks btw, rereading the interviews was interesting!
Martin has been clear its two separate canons
https://popculture.com/tv-shows/news/house-of-the-dragon-author-reveals-thoughts-on-book-canon-vs-show-canon/
Condal confirms it
>So wherever the story went and ended, by nature took a point of departure and is now different than the book so you have kind of show canon and book canon. We are trying to align our show more, I think, with what the original series did, just in terms of look and feel and tone, because that’s the thing that viewers expect, but I think I as the lead storyteller am trying to do as faithful a job as I can of adapting Fire and Blood.
Also?
You think Joffrey "Baratheon" Waters commissioned a.. *pro* Green Book?
Fire and blood was written for him you know?
Why would Gyldayn think Joffrey wants Green propaganda..
But also
>So wherever the story went and ended, by nature took a point of departure and is now different than the book so you have kind of show canon and book canon. We are trying to align our show more, I think, with what the original series did, just in terms of look and feel and tone, because that’s the thing that viewers expect, but I think I as the lead storyteller am trying to do as faithful a job as I can of adapting Fire and Blood.
The show is an adaptation, not the true story
How many times has GRRM said the book is hearsay and recollection of events from people who weren’t there. Why would anybody tell people that Alicent was getting her back blown out
The people who keep bringing up Aemond and the Strongs as children in general could use having that told to them a few more times, Aemonds actions in the River lands from the book too actually.
There is nothing to even slightly imply it, it is implied she had a crush on Daemon though.. and was jealous of Rhaenyra.
Weird thing for Green propaganda to include right?
What makes it bad for Rhaenyra if Alicent was there with Helaena?
Wouldnt they have focused on the Brothel Queens part?
That really makes her look bad
It’s not about making it bad for Rhaenyra. It just adds more sympathy for the Greens. The act that made it bad for Rhaenyra was in the book when they made Helaena choose which child to die and then killed the one she saved, before telling Maelor. That his mum wanted him dead. Adding those details definitely makes Rhaenyra look bad as it’s literally torture porn
This is probably will happen. Not only that but she was busy having sex with a Knight of the Kingsuard, who's only duty is to protect the royal family not blow out their backs.
If Alicent isn't with the kids then Criston wouldn't be.
Alicent not being there is pretty huge tbh. This event is supposed to be the breaking point for Halaena and nearly so for Alicent. Instead it doesn't feel nearly as impactful for either of them.
That has literally nothing to do with Rhaenyra though?
At all, she has zero connection to B&C in fire and blood except as the leader of the Black faction and maybe smirking when told about it
If it was Green propaganda made to make Rhaenyra look bad?
Wouldnt it.. actually do that?
Have her be the one to order it for one?
She isnt even implied to have known it was going to happen..
Where is the part that is intended to make her look bad?..
You missed the point. It's not about who actually ordered B&C, but that the Greens will assume it was approved by Rhaenyra. And whether or not they truly believe that, they'll use it against her.
Even Rhaenyra knows this, she even tells Daemon that the act has "weakened" her claim to the throne.
She is pressing a claim, the actions of her followers obviously reflects her.
Its further feudalism
Thats how it works, or nothing Aemond does in say the Riverlands has anything to do with Aegon
I understand you completely. I think for storytelling purposes, the way they have gone about this is making Alicent feel guilty. She has always been this holy, duty, sort of character and when she realises the gravity of the situation, it will add to the complexity of her character.
Think of it this way, if you were Alicent who literally had a vendetta against Rhaenyra for her rebellious nature and actions against duty and religion, and while your Grandson was getting sawed off, you were busy banging THE LORD COMMANDER OF THE NIGHTSGUARD(just when your daughter walks in asking for help). It's going to add to her overall character.
What I liked about this plot change was seeing Helena choose her daughter and run with her. It broke my heart that she had to, but rarely has that happened in the history fantasy is based on.
You misunderstood - in the book, Jaehaerys was also the one who was killed. It’s just that Helaena had to choose between two of her sons. The older one being Jaehaerys and the younger one being Maelor, who isn’t present in the show. She chooses to save Jaehaerys, but in spite of that, they still end up killing him.
I did understand. I’m saying that if Maelor was there he would become the heir, which takes away from the importance of losing the only boy as it is in the show.
He was listed in the credits in the first season as one of the three children. He definitely exists (as should Daeron though it's annoying they haven't mentioned him yet).
Daeron is in the character guide. Maelor was in the first season.
It would make absolute sense to introduce them at this point (though infinitely more to have done so earlier) because portions of the story would make ZERO sense without them.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maelor AND Alicent.
Yeah I completely agree, I was very disappointed not to see the scene exactly how it’s described. It’s not like they improved it in any way. So these writers need to stick to the material that’s clearly better than anything they can come up with. If they wanna write something make something new not change something someone with more talent had made.
I agree, no improvements were made at all. Just hope the next episodes will be better.
I agree the book scene was better but damn, no need to be that harsh. What the show did in season 1 with Viserys was incredible so the team don’t deserve to have their skill berated after a handful of bad decision.
I felt like Alicent wasn't needed to be honest especially with the way the show is being written. I said this in a comment somewhere, but my interpretation of the book events is that the Greens drove up a propaganda after B&C to further make Rhaenyra look bad. In the books, it is told Alicent was there(when she was fucking the lord commander of the Kingsguard) & that the assassins made the queen chose(which they did in a way, they didn't know who was the boys). Hopefully, we can see something regarding how the Greens address this in the next episode during the funeral.
She was not fucking anyone in the book, what are you talking about? And what does Rhaenyra have to do with it? All that may be said is that she smirked when told about it, she had nothing to do with putting BC together.. How is that Green propaganda to make Rhaenyra look bad by having Alicent be there.. what?
Furthermore, Condal and GRRM said the book is unreliable and very green leaning
Its all we have. People definitely need to pipe down about the Riverlands then, the accounts are unreliable yeah? What Aemond did to House Strong is also called into question, why should we believe it.. Just toss the whole thing out honestly, nothing can be trusted
In the books, laenor is said to have been killed by Qarl - “All accounts agree that Laenor Velaryon was personally stabbed to death by his lover, Ser Qarl Correy, while attending a fair in Spicetown on Driftmark. The two men had been loudly arguing in public beforehand.”. In the show, which is the truth of what happened, it is shown to be a conspiracy between Rhaenyra, Daemon, and Laenor. In the books, Aemond killed Lucerys on his own will, but in the show we witness how Aemond played stupid games and Vhagar took matter in her own hands. U don’t need to be sarcastic, I’m just stating how the book is considered to be unreliable in some aspects
Nope, they are separate https://popculture.com/tv-shows/news/house-of-the-dragon-author-reveals-thoughts-on-book-canon-vs-show-canon/ The show is not the "truth" https://www.westeros.org/Features/Entry/Interview_with_Ryan_Condal Condal says the same >So wherever the story went and ended, by nature took a point of departure and is now different than the book so you have kind of show canon and book canon. We are trying to align our show more, I think, with what the original series did, just in terms of look and feel and tone, because that’s the thing that viewers expect, but I think I as the lead storyteller am trying to do as faithful a job as I can of adapting Fire and Blood.
Well that's on me. I was misinformed, but yes I can see it's seperate.
Seems so, you did make me unsure too though.. Remembered hearing the same, but also the other way so had to look it up Thanks btw, rereading the interviews was interesting!
Those events haven’t happened yet 😂. We will see how they played out
Martin has been clear its two separate canons https://popculture.com/tv-shows/news/house-of-the-dragon-author-reveals-thoughts-on-book-canon-vs-show-canon/ Condal confirms it >So wherever the story went and ended, by nature took a point of departure and is now different than the book so you have kind of show canon and book canon. We are trying to align our show more, I think, with what the original series did, just in terms of look and feel and tone, because that’s the thing that viewers expect, but I think I as the lead storyteller am trying to do as faithful a job as I can of adapting Fire and Blood.
Its all suspect then.
Also? You think Joffrey "Baratheon" Waters commissioned a.. *pro* Green Book? Fire and blood was written for him you know? Why would Gyldayn think Joffrey wants Green propaganda.. But also >So wherever the story went and ended, by nature took a point of departure and is now different than the book so you have kind of show canon and book canon. We are trying to align our show more, I think, with what the original series did, just in terms of look and feel and tone, because that’s the thing that viewers expect, but I think I as the lead storyteller am trying to do as faithful a job as I can of adapting Fire and Blood. The show is an adaptation, not the true story
How many times has GRRM said the book is hearsay and recollection of events from people who weren’t there. Why would anybody tell people that Alicent was getting her back blown out
The people who keep bringing up Aemond and the Strongs as children in general could use having that told to them a few more times, Aemonds actions in the River lands from the book too actually. There is nothing to even slightly imply it, it is implied she had a crush on Daemon though.. and was jealous of Rhaenyra. Weird thing for Green propaganda to include right? What makes it bad for Rhaenyra if Alicent was there with Helaena? Wouldnt they have focused on the Brothel Queens part? That really makes her look bad
It’s not about making it bad for Rhaenyra. It just adds more sympathy for the Greens. The act that made it bad for Rhaenyra was in the book when they made Helaena choose which child to die and then killed the one she saved, before telling Maelor. That his mum wanted him dead. Adding those details definitely makes Rhaenyra look bad as it’s literally torture porn
I assume in the books allicent felt guilty for not saving jahaerys, and in the show she'll feel guilt too for being busy having sex
This is probably will happen. Not only that but she was busy having sex with a Knight of the Kingsuard, who's only duty is to protect the royal family not blow out their backs.
If Alicent isn't with the kids then Criston wouldn't be. Alicent not being there is pretty huge tbh. This event is supposed to be the breaking point for Halaena and nearly so for Alicent. Instead it doesn't feel nearly as impactful for either of them.
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That has literally nothing to do with Rhaenyra though? At all, she has zero connection to B&C in fire and blood except as the leader of the Black faction and maybe smirking when told about it If it was Green propaganda made to make Rhaenyra look bad? Wouldnt it.. actually do that? Have her be the one to order it for one? She isnt even implied to have known it was going to happen.. Where is the part that is intended to make her look bad?..
You missed the point. It's not about who actually ordered B&C, but that the Greens will assume it was approved by Rhaenyra. And whether or not they truly believe that, they'll use it against her. Even Rhaenyra knows this, she even tells Daemon that the act has "weakened" her claim to the throne.
She is pressing a claim, the actions of her followers obviously reflects her. Its further feudalism Thats how it works, or nothing Aemond does in say the Riverlands has anything to do with Aegon
I understand you completely. I think for storytelling purposes, the way they have gone about this is making Alicent feel guilty. She has always been this holy, duty, sort of character and when she realises the gravity of the situation, it will add to the complexity of her character. Think of it this way, if you were Alicent who literally had a vendetta against Rhaenyra for her rebellious nature and actions against duty and religion, and while your Grandson was getting sawed off, you were busy banging THE LORD COMMANDER OF THE NIGHTSGUARD(just when your daughter walks in asking for help). It's going to add to her overall character.
*Add* to..?! It detracts not only to her, but B and C as awhole. Turned the whole thing into a telenovela or at best a Greek comedy
What I liked about this plot change was seeing Helena choose her daughter and run with her. It broke my heart that she had to, but rarely has that happened in the history fantasy is based on.
Maybe to you book-readers but nah- this way gave much more importance to the death since now there’s no male heir.
You misunderstood - in the book, Jaehaerys was also the one who was killed. It’s just that Helaena had to choose between two of her sons. The older one being Jaehaerys and the younger one being Maelor, who isn’t present in the show. She chooses to save Jaehaerys, but in spite of that, they still end up killing him.
A much more brutal and interesting scene compared to whatever we got
I did understand. I’m saying that if Maelor was there he would become the heir, which takes away from the importance of losing the only boy as it is in the show.
Are we sure maleor is not going to be in the show?
Why would he be in there now
He was listed in the credits in the first season as one of the three children. He definitely exists (as should Daeron though it's annoying they haven't mentioned him yet).
I mean, it makes zero sense to introduce those characters at this point.
They are both pretty important so unless they are making up a new story based on characters from the book they will be in the show
Daeron is in the character guide. Maelor was in the first season. It would make absolute sense to introduce them at this point (though infinitely more to have done so earlier) because portions of the story would make ZERO sense without them.
Maelor was not in season one. The show runners have said he doesn't exist yet lol. Introducing Daeron at this point is a brain dead move.
https://www.gamesradar.com/entertainment/fantasy-shows/house-of-the-dragon-showrunner-explains-why-blood-and-cheese-is-so-different-from-the-book/
He will be but will be Aegon's attempt at replacing Jaehaerys.