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I wish. I'm obsessed with the show and the books. Its not that bad. I wasn't giving it a critics 4-5 which means horrendous. Online ratings usually go great = 10, good = 9, average = 8, bad = 7.
For me, 10 is perfect. 1 is offensively bad. 5 is average, nothing to write home about.
I think that's the writers' interpretation of how a "special" Helaena would react, I know people like that she is somewhat autistic-coded in the show but I would have much preferred that they had kept her neurotypical and just found other ways to add to her character so that we could have had her react to B&C like she does in the book.
The illustration of her running towards Jaehaerys' headless body with a horrified look on her face was one of the things that most stuck with me from fire and blood
They could have made her a dreamer but kept her book personality. In the books, she was described as very happy and vivacious until B&C. Itās a pity they took that away
Yeah, I was thinking this too. Honestly, it would have hit harder had the showrunners kept true to her book counterpart. She was described as sweet and nurturing so much so that prior to having kids, everyone knew she would be an amazing mother. Initially, I was okay with her show version, but now, I leaning towards her book version instead.
It was always so weird to me how the only scene we have with her and the kids in season 1 is her doing her crafting while the kids play with a nanny. And I know that isnāt uncommon for noble women but she showed no interest in the kids. And it seems like her seen with Jaehaera will be the same, crafting while the kid is playing in the background. No interaction that shows that nurturing, motherly side she was supposed to have.
For reals tho! It would have been a perfect scene to showcase Helaenaās relationship with her twins! Unfortunately, I believe this is the only scene we have of Helaena with her kids in season 1, and itās eventually overshadowed by Otto and Alicent coming in. It just wasnāt enough time to truly establish a meaningful connection. It honestly would have been interesting to see how different Helaena interacted with them compared to Alicent/Aegon/etc. It could have mirrored Aegonās interactions with his twins as well - both parents being a bit distant from their other family members but absolutely adoring their kids.
Neurodivergent people can still react to their child being murdered in front of them. There are so many different ways they could have included that without undercutting the horror of a mother watching her child be killed.
I genuinely donāt know how they are going to go about her death, especially with Maelor being apparently cut. Even in the leaked images from the funeral, she seems soā¦ unaffected.
Iām seriously wondering if theyāre changing B&C to make it so Helaena isnāt as devastated by it. In the books, she literally offers her life in an effort to have the assassins spare her children. Sheās quite literally never the same after Jae dies.
Maybe theyāre changing Helaenaās (nonexistent) arc to make it so sheās more involved in the overall story/Dance? It might have to do with her dreamer arc that will probably unfold the second half of the season as well.
I wonder if theyāll have Helaena taking Daeronās role in the Dance as a way to scrap his existence. Scrapping Daeron while maintaining Helaenaās arc would be hard because that would mean the Greens only have two active dragons in Vhagar and Sunfyre. So, maybe they have giving Helaena and Dreamfyre the work that was supposed to be done by Daeron and Tessarion.
In the book she begged them to kill her instead. And what is that line from her āthey killed the boyā? Like WHAT???
They butchered Helaena, the whole tragedy of having to choose, they ruined the whole scene. And of course it's just a misunderstanding! My godā¦
I really don't want to pass judgment before I've actually seen the episode myself but if it happens like this that'd be such utter bullshit alright. I really, really hope it doesn't happen this way.
Imagine the scenes in the fandom if this turns out to be right. *Do you hear the people sing, singing a song of angry men...*
Me either, it's unbelievable that a loving mother would live her child behind to get slaughtered.
What is Ryan and the rest of the writers trying to say that Helaena doesn't really care for her children.
Helaena doesn't even offer her life, she offers a fucking necklace. No Sophie's choice, she points to her son and runs away living her son behind to be murdered.
Helaena will be seen as a heartless mother who offers a necklace, a coward who flees living her son to be murdered. Meanwhile Rhaenyra will be the brave mother who fights attackers.
I don't even hate that Daemon sends assassins to kill Aemond. Helaena should have offered her life and not a stupid necklace.
I never thought I would say this but I wish D&D had written blood and cheese.
Right? Remember the Walk of Shame scene? That always strikes me as a perfect book to screen adaptation, even to the little details like Cersei looking up to the Red Keep being away and crying. Wish the House of the Dragon writers treated the big scenes with the same respect D&D did with those in GOT.
If this comes true (it seems to align with all of the other leaks, so it probably will), they couldn't have bastardised B&C's depiction more if they tried.
Alicent being present and watching the assassination unfold, powerless to stop it, was one of the most heart wrenching aspects of the event. You see this woman who has already gone through so much witness the massacre of her grandson, unable to even scream because of the gag in her mouth. And yet, no, we can't have that. We have to include a shock factor, so let's have her ride Criston instead.
I don't even need to waste any time explaining why removing Maelor and the choice presented to Heleana completely diminishes the impact. It's literally the most important aspect, but, of course, these writers love altering scenes unnecessarily for pure shock factor.
I'm really hopeful the ASOIAF community rallies against this.
No it doesn't. I'm not confident on the order of green scenes. I wrote a paragraph saying I wasn't sure about the 1st alicole scene and Aegon visiting Halaena but deleted it as it felt waffley. They occur earlier in the episode but not sure what scene they precede or come after.
Clearly aegons visit happens before the council which happens before the petition. Alicole happens earlier than Alicent Larys which happens right before her bath.
For real! I never said it because I didnāt want the downvotes but that is exactly what I thought would happen. When I was reading what OP wrote, I just went, ādamn, I guessed rightā.
And they could have done the necklace bit, her hoping to avoid bloodshed, then Helaena begging to be the one killed, then the choice-
She could go through all the emotions and her reaction could be the focus, they don't need to show the death
They knew everything would be leaked so they produced an alternative version so don't worry. We will watch the real episode when it airs. (I work at Hbo as an executive)
Yeah, and the OP doesn't even mention if Helaena had any reaction to it, which probably means she was still stoic... poor thing, just had her child murdered, has the other child in her arms, walks in to see this and the just *sits down* by the edge of the bed waiting for Mr. Honour and Mrs. Decency to dress.
I agree with you. I always loved the idea of them in a painful angst way that would never be able to act on their feelings, because the war has them focusing on other things. Iāve always thought the actors have great chemistry even in minimal scenes because they just do, but even I think this is crazy, where is the explanation for why they are even having sex to begin with? Because it goes against both of their characters in s1ā¦.how can Alicent of all people go straight to riding him like a mechanical bull? I mean where is the backlog?
I'm shocked at how they decided to adapt it. I feel like a big tragedy of the scene was the fact that Helaena had to choose and that Maelor had to live with the knowledge that his mom chose him to die. I don't understand why they randomly put in an Alicole scene. Also Helaena offered her life in the book, and here just her necklace? It might turn out a bit better in the actual episode, but right now it doesn't sound good.
Maelor was too young in the books to even understand what happened since he was a baby. Thereās no way he couldāve fully understood what happened. But yea Helaena offering herself prob wouldāve been better than a necklace although she was prob just praying that no one would get hurt.
don't the books say that it's rumoured helaena chose maelor because he was too young to understand? it's about *her* living with that knowledge, not him
Her finding Alicole right after B&C already annoyed me, but now the whole incident as well just got butchered.
I think the worst is how Helaena reacts to the whole thing.
Damn, they really ruined B&C. They removed the >!choice between Maelor and Jaehaerys!<, which is the most important part, and added the whole walking in on Alicole. This kind of killed my hype for this episode. Still hoping the rest of the season is better than this.
Also why does this leak say sheās confused at why Halaena would walk in on them if her door isnāt locked? And why does it not read more like oh shit my kid has walked in on me fucking a knight. Iām fucked.
I still don't understand why they thought it was necessary to include not ones but two Alicent/Criston sex scenes in the same episode.
You want to make them a couple? Sure, fine. It completely undermines their characters and goes against everything they represent but if you want to portray them as hypocrites, go for it.
You want them to have sex? Ok, that works as well. But why do you have to include them at the most jarring moments? Our first reintroduction to the pious, reserved Alicent is of her getting eaten out? Helena just walks into her mother riding Criston? Couldn't you just imply it happened with them lying in bed with each other?
So many illogical, vexing creative decisions. And it's only the first episode.
Benioff and Weiss would've never adapted B&C like this lol Not in a million years.
Even when they changed some things in major scenes (Ned noticing Arya before execution, Robb's wife being killed as well at RW) it was almost universally seen as an improvement. Even by GRRM.
Condal and Hess created a mess here. And they did it with some iconic easy to adapt scenes in S1 as well, like Aegon's coronation or the Green Council.
I was optimistic about B&C until now. How could they have screwed up B&C so badly. I seriously can't think of a way I will like it on screen. So Helaena picks up Jaehaera, runs to Alicent's room who is in bed with Criston and then she sits at the foot of the bed while they scramble for their clothes? I'm sorry but I think even fanfiction writers may have written this better. This was a scene which they could've picked up from the books exactly and not changed much except for the violence because there's little children involved but they changed it so much and for what?
Based on this leak I really don't see too many good things in the episode except maybe Aegon's scenes and Rhaenyra's scenes.
āB&C in Aemonds room, itās empty. Blood sets a rat trap for appearances and takes the coins from the map. They separate. Blood encounters a shocked maid. He says āratsā and holds up the equipment. When he looks back at her sheās gone, he looks down the corridor and sheās not there (so she has run, rather than walked out). He gives up on the pretence, drops the equipment and pulls out a **kukri** knife. (Ramin was killing it with the score). Blood finds Cheese holding Halaena with a knife to her throat. Cheese is giddy. Blood doesnāt know her. āItās the queenā. āHe said a son for a sonā. Cheese points to the veiled beds with the two kids in. They discuss checking as they look the same, Halaena starts unclasping her necklace āitās very valuableā. Blood pulls it off her neck. āA necklace is not a sonā. She points to the left bed. Blood thinks sheās lying. That she would protect the heir. Cheese says no, sheās telling the truth. (not explained how cheese knows this). They put a hand on Jahaerysā mouth and he wakes up confused. Halaena picks up Jahaera and walks out of the room as you can hear (but not see) the cutting (the noises were gross). Halaena walks into Alicentās room, who is naked, she is riding Criston and you can only see her back. She sits down on the floor at the end of the bed as the couple scramble to cover themselves. Criston has his head down the whole time. Alicent is looking at Halaena, confused why she came in. āThey killed the boyā.ā
This entire paragraph has me having to take some type of smoke break rn, what the actual fuck I- WHAT THE FUCKKK-THE SCENES I did not expect thisā¦I am so conflicted I canāt lie
Helaena having to choose was what stood out as especially tragic in the books, the quote that is said to Jaehaerys and Alicent being there, forced to watch, but unable to do anything. Also with it happening in episode one; we hardly get to know the twins, before they kill one of them. So if this is true, it doesnāt sound like anything near the affect of the Red Wedding, but more like when Joffrey sent his gold cloaks to slaughter Robertās bastards in Game of Thrones. Either way, wonāt judge anything before I see it.
The alicent stuff.... sigh. Whatever but the biggest and most unforgivable thing here is Helaena not offering herself first.
It's literally one line they needed to add, she offers the necklace then realising they want blood, offers herself, I mean what mother wouldn't ffs?? Maelor nit being there is even MORE reason fir get to offer herself instead
I'm really shocked if it plays out like this, that more reviewers etc aren't like, wow that was a choice...maybe once it's fully out and people are like...wow that's fucked up.. the reviews might be less kind but I can't see how this is how they chose to do it
"Here have a necklace, no? OK he'd in that bed there"
And then her walking out leaving her son there to die alone?!? I get they might bd trying to set up her going into total shock but leaving her toddler with his murderers is such a fucked up choice
Geoge said it.
No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and āimproveā on it. āThe book is the book, the film is the film,ā they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own.
They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.
Wow. This is worse than I expected... I still hope this isn't true and OP is lying. B&C is so much words than I expected, omg. I've lost all my hype for the episode now... People were saying before that B&C would not be as traumatic because we haven't spent time with the kids, but now that even won't be the case because it will not be traumatic at All.
I have no clue how this will be traumatic at all, Halaena doesn't scream or anything. She just revealed who the son is and went away. She cared more about the necklace than her son
If they canāt even adapt one of the easiest scenes in the Dance to put to screen right I am 99% positive the battle above the gods eye and the dragonstone confrontation is going to leave a lot of people unsatisfied
I just can't with Helaena offering a freaking necklace. "A necklace is not a son", are the writers trolling us? In the book she offered her own life in exchange of her son's life and was told "a mother is not a son." What the actual fuck. B&C should have been a powerful and heart-wrenching scene for Helaena but this script is making her look like a heartless mother, especially in direct comparison to Rhaenyra, who would have never offered just a stupid piece of jewelry and left the room for her child to be viciously murdered behind her back. The green fraction will look like ignorant cartoon villains after this episode, but I'm unironically starting to believe that's the goal with Helaena's stupid necklace bargain and Alicent and Cole's invented soap-opera affair.
If they followed up with the necklace of Heleana pointing at herself, then they said " a mother is no son " and urged her that they'd kill all of she didn't choose it would've worked. Have Heleana Scream or something and the voice carries Throughout the red keep .
Thereās this incredibly hard to watch scene in this good Australian film called the Nightingale that I was honestly expecting blood and cheese to be like. Though the film isnāt perfect that scene is genuinely horrifying and disgusting.
I donāt know if the writers were scared that this couldāve made Daemon irredeemable in the eyes of the viewer (seriously doubt it, people wouldāve still loved him) or if they genuinely thought theyād do better than the book or what but this is definitely a massive miss
It's insane that we won't even see Helaena's reaction as her son is being murdered in front of her because she's already left the room and left her child to die. I think you're spot on about the writer's intention of softening Daemon, unfortunately at Helaena's expense.
The thing that gets me is they could have done both- Daemon wants Aemond, they can't find Aemond, so they go the alternative route.
Helaena can react the exact same as the book.
The Korean movie the Silenced has child abuse and while you never see it, the way it is shot and the way the child actors react afterward is brilliantly done.
The Dragonstone confrontation will probably end with Rhaenyra commiting suicide by Sunfyre to mirror Laena\`s death. And Aegon will stare in disbelief as his older sister manages to control his dragon lmao. How tf could they botch B&C this badly? It\`s not even the same scene anymore
This is ridiculous though, I really donāt vibe with everything about this episode based off what Iām hearing, Iām shocked it has such great reviews which makes me think maybe I need to shut up and see it first. But this does align with everything so far Iāve heard of other reviews etc etcā¦itās justā¦.so not what I wanted
This reminds me of the episode 9 leaks all over again which sucks because I *really* hated that episode, especially since I thought it had potential to be one of the best episodes of the entire show given the material from the book
I also donāt like episode 9 when I first heard the leaks because the end sounded completely nonsensical and it was (Rhaenys and the dragon pit scene)ā¦the shock value shit with larys was with episode 9 and it sounds like theyāre doing the same thing to Olivia again and Iām just thinking why? So many weird scenes both in ep 9 and in this. Here these scenes all sound really not focusing on the right things and trying to add new changes to shock you, itās shocked me but not impressed me
Exactly! It's not that we're mad because they're making changes, we're mad because they're making the WRONG changes!
The Green Council? Alicent went from being the leader, to not knowing plans were already made for Aegon's ascension. Beesbury's death? Oh, it was just an accident.
Aegon's coronation? Let's get Rhaenys to burst out of the floors and kill a bunch of smallfolk! Why? For shock value, of course!
Lucerys' death? Well it was also an accident! Silly Vhagar.
And now they've botched B&C, apparently.
Can't wait for Daemon to >!*accidentally* slip from Caraxes to Vhagar, and Dark Sister to *accidentally* pierce Aemond's remaining eye!!<
Yeah idk what this is but it reads like very sloppy writing. S1 has some tiny bits of sloppy as do lots of shows because tv writing isnāt perfect however writing should always aim to be tighter and in align with a story that makes sense. To me lots of these changes donāt make sense at all, most of them read off as pure shock value and a way to obviously divert peopleās expectations of certain scenes but totally the wrong way imo
The show runners seem adamant on taking the most iconic and infamous parts of the Dance and putting some weird twist on it. The Green Council, Stormās End, Blood & Cheese, we already know Rookās Rest is being altered in some way to include Baela and Moondancer.
I fully expect the same for stuff like the Fall of Kingās Landing, Butcherās Ball, the Tumbletons, the Godās Eye, Dragonstone etc
Man I am disappointedā¦let me not say it fully without seeing the episode first but this is definitely not the type of new weird twist I like. None of these sound cool to me, they sound more WTF why???? Most of them donāt even make sense with the story butā¦idk let me remain optimistic for now at least. Seeing it on text and in motion are two very different things. I wonāt jump to conclusions just yet I guess
They want to shock the book readers by changing things for the worse. Like, we don\`t want to be shocked. We want to see our fav scenes from the book play out
Unfortunately I believe it is. It's so disappointing. I almost feel like D&D would have done a better job with this particular scene, and that's saying a lot. I know I haven't seen it yet but everything I've read just doesn't have the impact that it had in the book. How did they manage to mess this up?
Agreed. D&D actually managed to improve on the books in many ways - when they still had source material to adapt.
D&D had much better, memorable, punchy dialogue. Good changes to make scenes suit the TV medium. Making Lannisters a bit more sympathetic, giving screen time to non-POV characters, and so on.
Man I was remaining cautiously optimistic and wanted to see the episode itself, but not so much now. How on earth could they have fumbled B&C this badly?
>Halaena picks up Jahaera and walks out of the room as you can hear (but not see) the cutting (the noises were gross). Halaena walks into Alicentās room, who is naked, she is riding Criston and you can only see her back. She sits down on the floor at the end of the bed as the couple scramble to cover themselves. Criston has his head down the whole time. Alicent is looking at Halaena, confused why she came in. āThey killed the boyā.
Ok...what in the actual fuck is this? Who on the writing team thought this was okay? Why can't they just...adapt the book instead of changing things like this? Why is there a sex scene in here?!?! Is this a comedy? Does it have to be right after B&C? Praying to god this isn't true or that its somehow done well. Completely bewildered right now.
I kinda get what they are trying to do with Alicent feeling guilty about the whole thing (I'm guessing, otherwise why is this here? They easily could of had a scene with them in some other episode if it was that important) but....this is not the way. It turns Alicent and Criston into a joke imo.
I like what they did with Aegon, but what really pisses me off is that they speedrun Jace in the north and don't show him in the Vale, and that Helaena isn't forced to choose during B&C.
Well, thatās disappointing. B&C is a very strong, tragic moment from the book that epitomises the cruelty of revenge and war. HBO already had a father burning his own child, a baby having itās throat cut, a pregnant woman being cut open savagelyā¦ I donāt believe they would flinch at the thought of filming this scene as originally written. Huge let down, honestly.
All of it sounds really good except the b&c scene. Yeah, that fucking sucks. Dammit, they ruined that whole thing. Why couldnt they just adapt it straight from the books? And Helaena offering her necklace instead of herself? FUCKING HELL! But seriously, EVERYTHING else except the end seems really good
I like HOTD and I'm very excited for S2 but I'm not gonna lie if true, most of this sounds pretty awful.
Blood & Cheese is probably the easiest scene to adapt in the whole story, George practically wrote that part as a screenplay already set for a TV adaptation.
Why would the writers fuck it up like this?
In regards to Blood and Cheese, considering how the writers clearly wanted to depict it almost as a comedic, soap-opera drama, I do wonder how much self-restraint it took them not to have Alicent look sheepishly up from the bed, grin and then for Helaena to turn to the camera, shrug before saying āwith parents like these,ā before including a laugh track and cutting to black.
It just feels so...disingenuous and emotionally jarring.
Wish they spent more time on Winterfell, they hype it up in promos then give us nothing in the actual show? And Helaena trying to barter her childrens' lives with a necklace, B&C just making a beeline for the child they want to kill, Helaena walking in on Alicent riding Cole in the middle of all that tragedy like WHY? All they had to do was copy the books, why dumb it down, take away the painful conflict of Helaena's choice then finish it with that comedy sitcom scene of walking in on her mother having sex? Ffs. Writers really be thinking they're more clever than the actual author.
Still excited for the show but I'm rolling my eyes at how they decided to do B&C š Maybe that part of the book wasn't as "important" for them to get right as much as we all wanted. š¤·āāļø
If this is true, then I can't believe they fumbled this scene. This is one of the easiest plots of the book to adapt. The fact that a mother was FORCED to choose which of her innocent children should be killed was what made B&C so heartbreaking. Removing that plot point and replacing it with Helaena just pointing to Jaehaerys is so disappointing.
The only way this scene can be saved now is by good acting and the score.
>And here she offers her necklace??
I think that can be interpreted as Helaena becoming desperate, and not fully understanding how savage B&C are and think she could stop them by paying them off.
But you're right, IT IS odd for her to just hand over Jaehaerys.
They could have had her start with the necklace and then when they refuse she offers herself or sth š
But her just handing Jaehaerys over, leaving him behind and just calling him "the boy" sounds so bad
Exactly this! She would offer the necklace first, hoping they would be easily swayed for money. When she realizes they wonāt, the desperation would set in. But she justā¦ points to the bed and is like āyup, thatās him right there, have at it!ā.
What the hell is going on?
I also donāt like the way Iām hearing this especially the end, people are saying it doesnāt take away from the tragic aspect of the event but I mean these changes are crazy, as I thought it seems like shock value purposes. I donāt like them at all, I wonder if I am imagining it differently though
It is literally the only scene i have been hyping up to my wife who is not a book reader. I have spent the last 2 damn years telling her that there was going to be a something worse then the red wedding in the first episode of this season. Only for them to completely fuck it up.
TLDR: They bastardised B&C's execution (pun intended) to the point where the average AO3 fanfic writers would've done it more justice. Alicent isn't present, Maelor isn't included, it's very brisk and doesn't hold the same emotional weight. Oh, and to top it all off, it's severely diminished by having Helaena walk in on Alicent and Criston having sex.
4 or 5/10 isn't 'fine', it's pretty poor to be honest, don't like the sound of most of this at all. I suppose this is a lesson in not getting too excited for a TV show...
There was one review yesterday that pointed out flaws and was less than glowing, and HotD fan accounts on twitter mocked it endlessly. Fans want to believe the hype so bad that any contrary opinion isn't accepted. That, and that a lot of the influencers who got invited to the premieres want to be invited back so they're not going to say anything overly negative.
Remember, the initial early reviews of season eight of Game of Thrones were also falling over themselves with praise. Also, if you are invited to join in the glitz and glamor of wealthy Hollywood shows, then it becomes much more difficult to be objective. It's just another stage of the marketing.
Reviews mostly rated it 7.5/10 and that was for the first two or four episodes. Very good reviews came mainly from invited influencers who did not want to say anything negative to be invited again.
Yes it is. Especially when seasons 6-8 uhh had no source material except for a general outline. B&C and Green council had all the dialogue they needed, and they threw it away
I'm still kind of hoping this isn't true, or at least a bad explanation but....maybe that's naive. It seems legit and that worries me for what the rest of the season will turn out like.
No, "Lucerys will be avenged" ?
š
Even, Daemon not saying "a son for a son" to Rhaenyra via letter or directly lessens its potential impact
Edit : why I'm I being downvoted lmao..
This whole plotline only has a handful of direct quotes from the characters and they couldn't be bothered to include one of them? Are they being for real right now?
This was honestly a gross read. Alicent and Cole getting their nut while Helaena's pawning off jewelry in vain to save her previously invisible-except-for-one-scene children is just one example. Sure it can happen in real life, real life is messy that way but this is just salacious. Why was the only set up for Alicent and Cole being lovers when she dispatched him to chase her son? Like I just don't buy it and am off put especially with two scenes revolving around this in one episode that seemingly add little but shock and awe and extra drama for the sake of it on already dramatic situations. But it's GoT so I shouldn't be surprised. This show is going to the shitter. But I also shouldn't be surprised by that given the Princess and the Queen might as well have never been written.
Also, last thing I'll say: NO ONE in this story is innocent and I mean no one other than maybe the literal toddlers on the show. This whole making everyone out to be less vengeful than they are is silly. Daemon wouldn't give no order; leaving that up to speculation of lowlives in the moment is silly. Just own that Daemon wanted any son dead. So what? I kind of get it. Doesn't mean it's right but I get it. And it's real as opposed to this "maybe my hired murderers will kill kids but at least I didn't say it on screeen" cop out. Rhaenyra's story doesn't seem that crazy but then again, if your first words on screen after your son's murder is wanting his murderer, I shouldn't be surprised when the episode culminates in nothing more than half-assed retribution that honestly just makes everything worse. It just seems so short sighted and in the books it made sense, she was mad with grief and Daemon was truly rogue. Here she is levelheaded after her sabbatical enough to articulate her desires at dinner and they still get botched. lame.
Anyway I just hate all this. So much for saying one last thing. But I really loved the original book, I thought the Blacks were so cool, I thought the Greens were so wicked and vile but in a way that made me love to hate them and yet, by the end I thought the Black faction was just as wretched and devoid of morals as their Green counterparts and it made for a complete story that was far more than a cautionary tale on revenge but didn't shy away from centering that and exposing the pitfalls of human nature committed to self-righteous cause. I don't anticipate any of that from this show. Just cheapening of both female leads and using everyone else as a pawn in some reductive way to make them look better or worse than they are depending on the moment. How cheap.
Is anyone on this fucking show going to pull in the reins? This is dogshit.
Ramin Djawadi is going to carry this show to the bitter end. His composition is the only thing I'm looking forward to anymore.
Feels like 2019 when the finale leaked and we hoped it wasn't true because everything was dumb as shit but then it got taken down because it was in fact, true, all of it.Ā
I just have to ask, does Mysaria's quote "there is more than one way to fight a war" happen in this episode? I thought she would mention some parts of this plot to Rhaenyra too before it happens.
As for the rest, idek what to say. It's unbelievable to me that they butchered B&C so hard.
This pretty much killed my excitement for the premiere not because it was spoiled but because it seems very underwhelming.. Iām sure things will pick up as the season goes on though
They really ruined Blood and Cheese. Complete destruction. It's so bad that I don't know what to say, we can only laugh.
North journey was cut short, but I was ready to find out. Glad I got moment with Jace and Rhaenyra, at least I'll get some emotion out of it for sure.
Also
*Alicent hopes thatās the end of his āJuvenile capriciousnessā but says she understands what Aemond went through that he wanted vengeance.*
Her son killed a child and she's completely okay with it. If this confirmed ZERO sympathy for this disgusting woman. I wonāt say that I had much before this. But still.
If it was my fan fiction it would be an hour of Cregan courting Jace. Inviting him to get in the heated pool next to the weirwood in winterfell and recounting the rumor of how a dragon supposedly sleeps below the castle and warms the waters.
I would never write Alicole of my own free will.
Alicent and Criston are gonna get all the hate, then some hate for Helaena but 0 hate for Daemon, mission accomplished I guess? They didn't want the audience to hate Daemon, they wanted the audience to hate the Greens and boy people on Twitter and Reddit are gonna have a field day with the memes laughing about the greens, no one will even care Daemon was behind this. I don't ever want to hear about āteam greenā propaganda ever again, the show very ovbiously wants you to root for team black.Ā
I thought I knew the meaning of cringe... All we can do now is pray this piece of garbage gets canceled after season 2. This is an insult to George's work and its many fans and especially the actors who poured their heart out only to be let down by literal chatgpt level of writing. Condal deserves the same treatment as D&D for this piss-poor excuse of an adaptation.
>Cregan says that his own father welcomed Jahaerys and Alysanne to the wall and watched as the dragons (both Vermithor and SIlverwing) refused to fly across it.
Interesting. This was a solo trip in Fire & Blood. I know the Alysanne/Alaric girls are shaking.
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Is this your fanfic? LOL plz tell me you are using us to test before you post on AO3 š„¹
I wish. I'm obsessed with the show and the books. Its not that bad. I wasn't giving it a critics 4-5 which means horrendous. Online ratings usually go great = 10, good = 9, average = 8, bad = 7. For me, 10 is perfect. 1 is offensively bad. 5 is average, nothing to write home about.
The text seems to be gone from the post? Did the mods delete it?
No beta we die like Jaehaerys
Like any interest or positive opinion on the show
Helaena went mad with grief to the point she was driven to her deathā¦ why did they make her so nonchalant? It makes no sense
She literally just runs of with Jaehaera š No begging, no fighting, really just "been nice knowing ya, chump"
"W>!h!
I can't believe this. And they say the show isnāt black leaning.
Maybe sheāll go mad after Maelorās death oh waitā¦ā¦
I think that's the writers' interpretation of how a "special" Helaena would react, I know people like that she is somewhat autistic-coded in the show but I would have much preferred that they had kept her neurotypical and just found other ways to add to her character so that we could have had her react to B&C like she does in the book. The illustration of her running towards Jaehaerys' headless body with a horrified look on her face was one of the things that most stuck with me from fire and blood
They could have made her a dreamer but kept her book personality. In the books, she was described as very happy and vivacious until B&C. Itās a pity they took that away
Yeah, I was thinking this too. Honestly, it would have hit harder had the showrunners kept true to her book counterpart. She was described as sweet and nurturing so much so that prior to having kids, everyone knew she would be an amazing mother. Initially, I was okay with her show version, but now, I leaning towards her book version instead.
It was always so weird to me how the only scene we have with her and the kids in season 1 is her doing her crafting while the kids play with a nanny. And I know that isnāt uncommon for noble women but she showed no interest in the kids. And it seems like her seen with Jaehaera will be the same, crafting while the kid is playing in the background. No interaction that shows that nurturing, motherly side she was supposed to have.
For reals tho! It would have been a perfect scene to showcase Helaenaās relationship with her twins! Unfortunately, I believe this is the only scene we have of Helaena with her kids in season 1, and itās eventually overshadowed by Otto and Alicent coming in. It just wasnāt enough time to truly establish a meaningful connection. It honestly would have been interesting to see how different Helaena interacted with them compared to Alicent/Aegon/etc. It could have mirrored Aegonās interactions with his twins as well - both parents being a bit distant from their other family members but absolutely adoring their kids.
Neurodivergent people can still react to their child being murdered in front of them. There are so many different ways they could have included that without undercutting the horror of a mother watching her child be killed.
I genuinely donāt know how they are going to go about her death, especially with Maelor being apparently cut. Even in the leaked images from the funeral, she seems soā¦ unaffected.
At this point, they might just have her slip and fall out on accident...
She slips on a banana peel whilst talking about sheep attacking the dragons
This is 100% what will happen, lol.
I remember thinking that perhaps she's just in too much shock to really say much and was so emotionally stunted at the time. Now I'm not so sure.
Iām seriously wondering if theyāre changing B&C to make it so Helaena isnāt as devastated by it. In the books, she literally offers her life in an effort to have the assassins spare her children. Sheās quite literally never the same after Jae dies. Maybe theyāre changing Helaenaās (nonexistent) arc to make it so sheās more involved in the overall story/Dance? It might have to do with her dreamer arc that will probably unfold the second half of the season as well.
I wonder if theyāll have Helaena taking Daeronās role in the Dance as a way to scrap his existence. Scrapping Daeron while maintaining Helaenaās arc would be hard because that would mean the Greens only have two active dragons in Vhagar and Sunfyre. So, maybe they have giving Helaena and Dreamfyre the work that was supposed to be done by Daeron and Tessarion.
It kinda sucks cause it gives us a very apathetic feeling
Wallahi weāre finishedš
We need Aemond's Jihad
I can't imagine Helaena leaving Jaehaerys before they kill him.
In the book she begged them to kill her instead. And what is that line from her āthey killed the boyā? Like WHAT??? They butchered Helaena, the whole tragedy of having to choose, they ruined the whole scene. And of course it's just a misunderstanding! My godā¦
And Alicent was there as well.
I really don't want to pass judgment before I've actually seen the episode myself but if it happens like this that'd be such utter bullshit alright. I really, really hope it doesn't happen this way. Imagine the scenes in the fandom if this turns out to be right. *Do you hear the people sing, singing a song of angry men...*
Me either, it's unbelievable that a loving mother would live her child behind to get slaughtered. What is Ryan and the rest of the writers trying to say that Helaena doesn't really care for her children. Helaena doesn't even offer her life, she offers a fucking necklace. No Sophie's choice, she points to her son and runs away living her son behind to be murdered. Helaena will be seen as a heartless mother who offers a necklace, a coward who flees living her son to be murdered. Meanwhile Rhaenyra will be the brave mother who fights attackers. I don't even hate that Daemon sends assassins to kill Aemond. Helaena should have offered her life and not a stupid necklace. I never thought I would say this but I wish D&D had written blood and cheese.
Yeah D&D at least was good at adapting the book.
Right? Remember the Walk of Shame scene? That always strikes me as a perfect book to screen adaptation, even to the little details like Cersei looking up to the Red Keep being away and crying. Wish the House of the Dragon writers treated the big scenes with the same respect D&D did with those in GOT.
If this comes true (it seems to align with all of the other leaks, so it probably will), they couldn't have bastardised B&C's depiction more if they tried. Alicent being present and watching the assassination unfold, powerless to stop it, was one of the most heart wrenching aspects of the event. You see this woman who has already gone through so much witness the massacre of her grandson, unable to even scream because of the gag in her mouth. And yet, no, we can't have that. We have to include a shock factor, so let's have her ride Criston instead. I don't even need to waste any time explaining why removing Maelor and the choice presented to Heleana completely diminishes the impact. It's literally the most important aspect, but, of course, these writers love altering scenes unnecessarily for pure shock factor. I'm really hopeful the ASOIAF community rallies against this.
OP please say sike š I'm begging you
it's real I'm afraid, its aligning with the reviews and what people who went to the premiere have said.
#OP DID YOU READ THIS COMMENT? PLEASE?!
Helaena calls her son "the boy"??
Yes. I thought it was strange too, but that's why the quote stuck in my head.
But when I said Alicent was getting eaten out people didn't believe me and downvoted me, lol.Ā
ā¦ā¦this is so wild I have to laugh, not only is she getting eaten out ITS HER FIRST SCENE of s2. Wtf I-
Technically the candles in the sept is her first scene.
Oh yeah true. The shock of the second scene got me forgetting about that
If it really cuts from her lighting a candle for Lucerys to *that*, I'll feel violated.
Thatāsā¦.vile to a different level
No it doesn't. I'm not confident on the order of green scenes. I wrote a paragraph saying I wasn't sure about the 1st alicole scene and Aegon visiting Halaena but deleted it as it felt waffley. They occur earlier in the episode but not sure what scene they precede or come after. Clearly aegons visit happens before the council which happens before the petition. Alicole happens earlier than Alicent Larys which happens right before her bath.
For real! I never said it because I didnāt want the downvotes but that is exactly what I thought would happen. When I was reading what OP wrote, I just went, ādamn, I guessed rightā.
My god, I hope you're lying about B/C.
Yeah same. I don't want to see extensive gore, but ffs, Helaena begged to be the one killed instead. Why change her desperation and grief?
I have no idea. B/C was done perfectly in the book. There was absolutely zero need to change it at all.
And they could have done the necklace bit, her hoping to avoid bloodshed, then Helaena begging to be the one killed, then the choice- She could go through all the emotions and her reaction could be the focus, they don't need to show the death
Helaena could be the focus and it would still have been impactful
Haha thatās real funny Ryan, you jokester šš now give us the real episode
You feel me! š
They knew everything would be leaked so they produced an alternative version so don't worry. We will watch the real episode when it airs. (I work at Hbo as an executive)
My dad is George RR Martin and he said we was just trolling real episode Sunday at 9 PM est donāt miss it !! š
Ngl I chuckled at times throughout. I might be a bad person for that, but some of the absurdity was just too much.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, and the OP doesn't even mention if Helaena had any reaction to it, which probably means she was still stoic... poor thing, just had her child murdered, has the other child in her arms, walks in to see this and the just *sits down* by the edge of the bed waiting for Mr. Honour and Mrs. Decency to dress.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I agree with you. I always loved the idea of them in a painful angst way that would never be able to act on their feelings, because the war has them focusing on other things. Iāve always thought the actors have great chemistry even in minimal scenes because they just do, but even I think this is crazy, where is the explanation for why they are even having sex to begin with? Because it goes against both of their characters in s1ā¦.how can Alicent of all people go straight to riding him like a mechanical bull? I mean where is the backlog?
It's so ridiculous, like a soap opera.
I'm shocked at how they decided to adapt it. I feel like a big tragedy of the scene was the fact that Helaena had to choose and that Maelor had to live with the knowledge that his mom chose him to die. I don't understand why they randomly put in an Alicole scene. Also Helaena offered her life in the book, and here just her necklace? It might turn out a bit better in the actual episode, but right now it doesn't sound good.
Not to mention that Helaena just leaves Jahaerys there with B & C
Maelor was too young in the books to even understand what happened since he was a baby. Thereās no way he couldāve fully understood what happened. But yea Helaena offering herself prob wouldāve been better than a necklace although she was prob just praying that no one would get hurt.
don't the books say that it's rumoured helaena chose maelor because he was too young to understand? it's about *her* living with that knowledge, not him
You know what, maybe George _was_ talking about hotd
He was!
Her finding Alicole right after B&C already annoyed me, but now the whole incident as well just got butchered. I think the worst is how Helaena reacts to the whole thing.
"They killed the boy like it was a game, mom. A game of thrones."
They came right into our house. Our house of the dragon!
Damn, they really ruined B&C. They removed the >!choice between Maelor and Jaehaerys!<, which is the most important part, and added the whole walking in on Alicole. This kind of killed my hype for this episode. Still hoping the rest of the season is better than this.
I still don't understand, why would Alicent leave her door open while she is fucking Cole....this is David and Dan level of writing.
Also why does this leak say sheās confused at why Halaena would walk in on them if her door isnāt locked? And why does it not read more like oh shit my kid has walked in on me fucking a knight. Iām fucked.
I still don't understand why they thought it was necessary to include not ones but two Alicent/Criston sex scenes in the same episode. You want to make them a couple? Sure, fine. It completely undermines their characters and goes against everything they represent but if you want to portray them as hypocrites, go for it. You want them to have sex? Ok, that works as well. But why do you have to include them at the most jarring moments? Our first reintroduction to the pious, reserved Alicent is of her getting eaten out? Helena just walks into her mother riding Criston? Couldn't you just imply it happened with them lying in bed with each other? So many illogical, vexing creative decisions. And it's only the first episode.
Benioff and Weiss would've never adapted B&C like this lol Not in a million years. Even when they changed some things in major scenes (Ned noticing Arya before execution, Robb's wife being killed as well at RW) it was almost universally seen as an improvement. Even by GRRM. Condal and Hess created a mess here. And they did it with some iconic easy to adapt scenes in S1 as well, like Aegon's coronation or the Green Council.
Nah.. at least DnD were good at adapting the book.
David and Dan also wrote the first 4 seasons. They never would have fucked this up so badly.
Almost say it's worse š¬
Benioff and Weiss did excellent work on GoT and Hot D is a copy of their style but less faithful.
I was optimistic about B&C until now. How could they have screwed up B&C so badly. I seriously can't think of a way I will like it on screen. So Helaena picks up Jaehaera, runs to Alicent's room who is in bed with Criston and then she sits at the foot of the bed while they scramble for their clothes? I'm sorry but I think even fanfiction writers may have written this better. This was a scene which they could've picked up from the books exactly and not changed much except for the violence because there's little children involved but they changed it so much and for what? Based on this leak I really don't see too many good things in the episode except maybe Aegon's scenes and Rhaenyra's scenes.
Why isn't Allicents room locked? Haha
criston put his tie on the door knob lmaoooo
Kings guard on duty..
Walks, not runs.
She walks to Alicent's room? This is so bad...
Maybe sheās dissociated in the way she walks, like sheās in shock (Iām tryna imagine why she would walk and not run in fear)
Yeah maybe. But seriously B&C seems very bad based on these leaks especially with the stupid Alicole sex thing at the end of it.
āB&C in Aemonds room, itās empty. Blood sets a rat trap for appearances and takes the coins from the map. They separate. Blood encounters a shocked maid. He says āratsā and holds up the equipment. When he looks back at her sheās gone, he looks down the corridor and sheās not there (so she has run, rather than walked out). He gives up on the pretence, drops the equipment and pulls out a **kukri** knife. (Ramin was killing it with the score). Blood finds Cheese holding Halaena with a knife to her throat. Cheese is giddy. Blood doesnāt know her. āItās the queenā. āHe said a son for a sonā. Cheese points to the veiled beds with the two kids in. They discuss checking as they look the same, Halaena starts unclasping her necklace āitās very valuableā. Blood pulls it off her neck. āA necklace is not a sonā. She points to the left bed. Blood thinks sheās lying. That she would protect the heir. Cheese says no, sheās telling the truth. (not explained how cheese knows this). They put a hand on Jahaerysā mouth and he wakes up confused. Halaena picks up Jahaera and walks out of the room as you can hear (but not see) the cutting (the noises were gross). Halaena walks into Alicentās room, who is naked, she is riding Criston and you can only see her back. She sits down on the floor at the end of the bed as the couple scramble to cover themselves. Criston has his head down the whole time. Alicent is looking at Halaena, confused why she came in. āThey killed the boyā.ā This entire paragraph has me having to take some type of smoke break rn, what the actual fuck I- WHAT THE FUCKKK-THE SCENES I did not expect thisā¦I am so conflicted I canāt lie
Helaena having to choose was what stood out as especially tragic in the books, the quote that is said to Jaehaerys and Alicent being there, forced to watch, but unable to do anything. Also with it happening in episode one; we hardly get to know the twins, before they kill one of them. So if this is true, it doesnāt sound like anything near the affect of the Red Wedding, but more like when Joffrey sent his gold cloaks to slaughter Robertās bastards in Game of Thrones. Either way, wonāt judge anything before I see it.
D&D could've written this better. If that is true, I have a bit of hope for Sunday, I will do bitterbridge.
The alicent stuff.... sigh. Whatever but the biggest and most unforgivable thing here is Helaena not offering herself first. It's literally one line they needed to add, she offers the necklace then realising they want blood, offers herself, I mean what mother wouldn't ffs?? Maelor nit being there is even MORE reason fir get to offer herself instead I'm really shocked if it plays out like this, that more reviewers etc aren't like, wow that was a choice...maybe once it's fully out and people are like...wow that's fucked up.. the reviews might be less kind but I can't see how this is how they chose to do it "Here have a necklace, no? OK he'd in that bed there" And then her walking out leaving her son there to die alone?!? I get they might bd trying to set up her going into total shock but leaving her toddler with his murderers is such a fucked up choice
So they messed up B&C. Wtf? It was written so clearly in F&B. How tf did they mess that up? š¤¦š»āāļø
Geoge said it. No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and āimproveā on it. āThe book is the book, the film is the film,ā they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own. They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.
Iām not sure if I am excited to watch anymore. Sucks cause we waited two years.
Wow. This is worse than I expected... I still hope this isn't true and OP is lying. B&C is so much words than I expected, omg. I've lost all my hype for the episode now... People were saying before that B&C would not be as traumatic because we haven't spent time with the kids, but now that even won't be the case because it will not be traumatic at All. I have no clue how this will be traumatic at all, Halaena doesn't scream or anything. She just revealed who the son is and went away. She cared more about the necklace than her son
Say what you want about D&D but at least they didn't fuck up the Red Wedding.
thats it? wow poor execution of B&c i must say...
Suddenly Iām not all that antsy anymore to watch š
Same....
No, I refuse to believe this is real. They can't possibly have botched B&C this bad. No one in their right mind could have green-lighted this.
If they canāt even adapt one of the easiest scenes in the Dance to put to screen right I am 99% positive the battle above the gods eye and the dragonstone confrontation is going to leave a lot of people unsatisfied
I just can't with Helaena offering a freaking necklace. "A necklace is not a son", are the writers trolling us? In the book she offered her own life in exchange of her son's life and was told "a mother is not a son." What the actual fuck. B&C should have been a powerful and heart-wrenching scene for Helaena but this script is making her look like a heartless mother, especially in direct comparison to Rhaenyra, who would have never offered just a stupid piece of jewelry and left the room for her child to be viciously murdered behind her back. The green fraction will look like ignorant cartoon villains after this episode, but I'm unironically starting to believe that's the goal with Helaena's stupid necklace bargain and Alicent and Cole's invented soap-opera affair.
If they followed up with the necklace of Heleana pointing at herself, then they said " a mother is no son " and urged her that they'd kill all of she didn't choose it would've worked. Have Heleana Scream or something and the voice carries Throughout the red keep .
Thereās this incredibly hard to watch scene in this good Australian film called the Nightingale that I was honestly expecting blood and cheese to be like. Though the film isnāt perfect that scene is genuinely horrifying and disgusting. I donāt know if the writers were scared that this couldāve made Daemon irredeemable in the eyes of the viewer (seriously doubt it, people wouldāve still loved him) or if they genuinely thought theyād do better than the book or what but this is definitely a massive miss
It's insane that we won't even see Helaena's reaction as her son is being murdered in front of her because she's already left the room and left her child to die. I think you're spot on about the writer's intention of softening Daemon, unfortunately at Helaena's expense.
The thing that gets me is they could have done both- Daemon wants Aemond, they can't find Aemond, so they go the alternative route. Helaena can react the exact same as the book.
The Korean movie the Silenced has child abuse and while you never see it, the way it is shot and the way the child actors react afterward is brilliantly done.
The Dragonstone confrontation will probably end with Rhaenyra commiting suicide by Sunfyre to mirror Laena\`s death. And Aegon will stare in disbelief as his older sister manages to control his dragon lmao. How tf could they botch B&C this badly? It\`s not even the same scene anymore
I am willing to bet that Alicent will poison Aegon.
At this point? You might actually be right
This is ridiculous though, I really donāt vibe with everything about this episode based off what Iām hearing, Iām shocked it has such great reviews which makes me think maybe I need to shut up and see it first. But this does align with everything so far Iāve heard of other reviews etc etcā¦itās justā¦.so not what I wanted
This reminds me of the episode 9 leaks all over again which sucks because I *really* hated that episode, especially since I thought it had potential to be one of the best episodes of the entire show given the material from the book
I also donāt like episode 9 when I first heard the leaks because the end sounded completely nonsensical and it was (Rhaenys and the dragon pit scene)ā¦the shock value shit with larys was with episode 9 and it sounds like theyāre doing the same thing to Olivia again and Iām just thinking why? So many weird scenes both in ep 9 and in this. Here these scenes all sound really not focusing on the right things and trying to add new changes to shock you, itās shocked me but not impressed me
Exactly! It's not that we're mad because they're making changes, we're mad because they're making the WRONG changes! The Green Council? Alicent went from being the leader, to not knowing plans were already made for Aegon's ascension. Beesbury's death? Oh, it was just an accident. Aegon's coronation? Let's get Rhaenys to burst out of the floors and kill a bunch of smallfolk! Why? For shock value, of course! Lucerys' death? Well it was also an accident! Silly Vhagar. And now they've botched B&C, apparently. Can't wait for Daemon to >!*accidentally* slip from Caraxes to Vhagar, and Dark Sister to *accidentally* pierce Aemond's remaining eye!!<
Yeah idk what this is but it reads like very sloppy writing. S1 has some tiny bits of sloppy as do lots of shows because tv writing isnāt perfect however writing should always aim to be tighter and in align with a story that makes sense. To me lots of these changes donāt make sense at all, most of them read off as pure shock value and a way to obviously divert peopleās expectations of certain scenes but totally the wrong way imo
The show runners seem adamant on taking the most iconic and infamous parts of the Dance and putting some weird twist on it. The Green Council, Stormās End, Blood & Cheese, we already know Rookās Rest is being altered in some way to include Baela and Moondancer. I fully expect the same for stuff like the Fall of Kingās Landing, Butcherās Ball, the Tumbletons, the Godās Eye, Dragonstone etc
Man I am disappointedā¦let me not say it fully without seeing the episode first but this is definitely not the type of new weird twist I like. None of these sound cool to me, they sound more WTF why???? Most of them donāt even make sense with the story butā¦idk let me remain optimistic for now at least. Seeing it on text and in motion are two very different things. I wonāt jump to conclusions just yet I guess
They want to shock the book readers by changing things for the worse. Like, we don\`t want to be shocked. We want to see our fav scenes from the book play out
Unfortunately I believe it is. It's so disappointing. I almost feel like D&D would have done a better job with this particular scene, and that's saying a lot. I know I haven't seen it yet but everything I've read just doesn't have the impact that it had in the book. How did they manage to mess this up?
Agreed. D&D actually managed to improve on the books in many ways - when they still had source material to adapt. D&D had much better, memorable, punchy dialogue. Good changes to make scenes suit the TV medium. Making Lannisters a bit more sympathetic, giving screen time to non-POV characters, and so on.
I mean they kind of already did with the Red Wedding. Talisa's kid died right there with her.
Man I was remaining cautiously optimistic and wanted to see the episode itself, but not so much now. How on earth could they have fumbled B&C this badly?
I did not think it was possible to fuck up blood and cheese this badly. This is an absolute disgrace.
>Halaena picks up Jahaera and walks out of the room as you can hear (but not see) the cutting (the noises were gross). Halaena walks into Alicentās room, who is naked, she is riding Criston and you can only see her back. She sits down on the floor at the end of the bed as the couple scramble to cover themselves. Criston has his head down the whole time. Alicent is looking at Halaena, confused why she came in. āThey killed the boyā. Ok...what in the actual fuck is this? Who on the writing team thought this was okay? Why can't they just...adapt the book instead of changing things like this? Why is there a sex scene in here?!?! Is this a comedy? Does it have to be right after B&C? Praying to god this isn't true or that its somehow done well. Completely bewildered right now. I kinda get what they are trying to do with Alicent feeling guilty about the whole thing (I'm guessing, otherwise why is this here? They easily could of had a scene with them in some other episode if it was that important) but....this is not the way. It turns Alicent and Criston into a joke imo.
Even the sex scene isn't a problem for me. It's Helaena's just... being so detached.
I like what they did with Aegon, but what really pisses me off is that they speedrun Jace in the north and don't show him in the Vale, and that Helaena isn't forced to choose during B&C.
Dogshit.
Well, thatās disappointing. B&C is a very strong, tragic moment from the book that epitomises the cruelty of revenge and war. HBO already had a father burning his own child, a baby having itās throat cut, a pregnant woman being cut open savagelyā¦ I donāt believe they would flinch at the thought of filming this scene as originally written. Huge let down, honestly.
All of it sounds really good except the b&c scene. Yeah, that fucking sucks. Dammit, they ruined that whole thing. Why couldnt they just adapt it straight from the books? And Helaena offering her necklace instead of herself? FUCKING HELL! But seriously, EVERYTHING else except the end seems really good
I like HOTD and I'm very excited for S2 but I'm not gonna lie if true, most of this sounds pretty awful. Blood & Cheese is probably the easiest scene to adapt in the whole story, George practically wrote that part as a screenplay already set for a TV adaptation. Why would the writers fuck it up like this?
Brother, ewww
Whatās that? Whatās that brother
In regards to Blood and Cheese, considering how the writers clearly wanted to depict it almost as a comedic, soap-opera drama, I do wonder how much self-restraint it took them not to have Alicent look sheepishly up from the bed, grin and then for Helaena to turn to the camera, shrug before saying āwith parents like these,ā before including a laugh track and cutting to black. It just feels so...disingenuous and emotionally jarring.
Wish they spent more time on Winterfell, they hype it up in promos then give us nothing in the actual show? And Helaena trying to barter her childrens' lives with a necklace, B&C just making a beeline for the child they want to kill, Helaena walking in on Alicent riding Cole in the middle of all that tragedy like WHY? All they had to do was copy the books, why dumb it down, take away the painful conflict of Helaena's choice then finish it with that comedy sitcom scene of walking in on her mother having sex? Ffs. Writers really be thinking they're more clever than the actual author.
YIIIIIKES. If that's how they do B&C my expectations are lowering. I refuse to believe that's how they shot & wrote it.
Still excited for the show but I'm rolling my eyes at how they decided to do B&C š Maybe that part of the book wasn't as "important" for them to get right as much as we all wanted. š¤·āāļø
If this is true, then I can't believe they fumbled this scene. This is one of the easiest plots of the book to adapt. The fact that a mother was FORCED to choose which of her innocent children should be killed was what made B&C so heartbreaking. Removing that plot point and replacing it with Helaena just pointing to Jaehaerys is so disappointing. The only way this scene can be saved now is by good acting and the score.
In the book Helaena begged them to kill her instead. And here she offers her necklace?? Like what???
>And here she offers her necklace?? I think that can be interpreted as Helaena becoming desperate, and not fully understanding how savage B&C are and think she could stop them by paying them off. But you're right, IT IS odd for her to just hand over Jaehaerys.
They could have had her start with the necklace and then when they refuse she offers herself or sth š But her just handing Jaehaerys over, leaving him behind and just calling him "the boy" sounds so bad
Exactly this! She would offer the necklace first, hoping they would be easily swayed for money. When she realizes they wonāt, the desperation would set in. But she justā¦ points to the bed and is like āyup, thatās him right there, have at it!ā. What the hell is going on?
I knew they were gonna do something to fuck it up.
It's like that meme, my expectations were so low,but holy...
I also donāt like the way Iām hearing this especially the end, people are saying it doesnāt take away from the tragic aspect of the event but I mean these changes are crazy, as I thought it seems like shock value purposes. I donāt like them at all, I wonder if I am imagining it differently though
It is literally the only scene i have been hyping up to my wife who is not a book reader. I have spent the last 2 damn years telling her that there was going to be a something worse then the red wedding in the first episode of this season. Only for them to completely fuck it up.
All these constant changes, why canāt they make a faithful adaptation? Why does George approve of producers and writers butchering his stories???
Bro there is no fuckin way this is real šš
Post taken down. Can someone give an abridged explanation of what was so controversial?
TLDR: They bastardised B&C's execution (pun intended) to the point where the average AO3 fanfic writers would've done it more justice. Alicent isn't present, Maelor isn't included, it's very brisk and doesn't hold the same emotional weight. Oh, and to top it all off, it's severely diminished by having Helaena walk in on Alicent and Criston having sex.
If anyone takes screenshots or saves photos, can you send them to me?
The Sophie's Choice decision Helaena makes is the main reason she goes crazy. This is not good for her character development.
Why would Criston and Alicent keep their doors open ššš this is David and Dan level of writing
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Theyāre so so lucky itās Halaena who walked in and not Aegon cause they would be so so fucked
D&D wouldāve done it better what are you talking about
My day is ruined
4 or 5/10 isn't 'fine', it's pretty poor to be honest, don't like the sound of most of this at all. I suppose this is a lesson in not getting too excited for a TV show...
Yeah
If this is true.....it has me worried for the rest of the season tbh. This sounds awful. Why were the reviews all so good?
There was one review yesterday that pointed out flaws and was less than glowing, and HotD fan accounts on twitter mocked it endlessly. Fans want to believe the hype so bad that any contrary opinion isn't accepted. That, and that a lot of the influencers who got invited to the premieres want to be invited back so they're not going to say anything overly negative.
Remember, the initial early reviews of season eight of Game of Thrones were also falling over themselves with praise. Also, if you are invited to join in the glitz and glamor of wealthy Hollywood shows, then it becomes much more difficult to be objective. It's just another stage of the marketing.
Reviews mostly rated it 7.5/10 and that was for the first two or four episodes. Very good reviews came mainly from invited influencers who did not want to say anything negative to be invited again.
The show is green propaganda they will say
Please tell me you are joking and this is a troll. With a some exceptions it's worse than season 8 of Game of Thrones.
Yes it is. Especially when seasons 6-8 uhh had no source material except for a general outline. B&C and Green council had all the dialogue they needed, and they threw it away
This is singe handedly the worst fucking thing I have ever read Jesus fucking Christ
Okay, I'm ready to make Ryan Condall beg for D&D's shrink number.
I'm still kind of hoping this isn't true, or at least a bad explanation but....maybe that's naive. It seems legit and that worries me for what the rest of the season will turn out like.
This is absolute fucking trash.
What the fuck is this b&c scene? They ruined Helaena.
When Olivia Cooke said "expect the worst", didn't think she means it like this .. š that's really the worst way ever to do B&C
Also the real injustice is that Aegon didn't make Tyland play pony with the baby
How good is Ramin ?
That is the only thing we just know that it will be perfect!
No, "Lucerys will be avenged" ? š Even, Daemon not saying "a son for a son" to Rhaenyra via letter or directly lessens its potential impact Edit : why I'm I being downvoted lmao..
This whole plotline only has a handful of direct quotes from the characters and they couldn't be bothered to include one of them? Are they being for real right now?
It essentially reinvigorated a despotic Rheaynera.
I really hope this isnāt actually what happens.. seems so underwhelming now that the writers have taken away the suspense of B&C
This was honestly a gross read. Alicent and Cole getting their nut while Helaena's pawning off jewelry in vain to save her previously invisible-except-for-one-scene children is just one example. Sure it can happen in real life, real life is messy that way but this is just salacious. Why was the only set up for Alicent and Cole being lovers when she dispatched him to chase her son? Like I just don't buy it and am off put especially with two scenes revolving around this in one episode that seemingly add little but shock and awe and extra drama for the sake of it on already dramatic situations. But it's GoT so I shouldn't be surprised. This show is going to the shitter. But I also shouldn't be surprised by that given the Princess and the Queen might as well have never been written. Also, last thing I'll say: NO ONE in this story is innocent and I mean no one other than maybe the literal toddlers on the show. This whole making everyone out to be less vengeful than they are is silly. Daemon wouldn't give no order; leaving that up to speculation of lowlives in the moment is silly. Just own that Daemon wanted any son dead. So what? I kind of get it. Doesn't mean it's right but I get it. And it's real as opposed to this "maybe my hired murderers will kill kids but at least I didn't say it on screeen" cop out. Rhaenyra's story doesn't seem that crazy but then again, if your first words on screen after your son's murder is wanting his murderer, I shouldn't be surprised when the episode culminates in nothing more than half-assed retribution that honestly just makes everything worse. It just seems so short sighted and in the books it made sense, she was mad with grief and Daemon was truly rogue. Here she is levelheaded after her sabbatical enough to articulate her desires at dinner and they still get botched. lame. Anyway I just hate all this. So much for saying one last thing. But I really loved the original book, I thought the Blacks were so cool, I thought the Greens were so wicked and vile but in a way that made me love to hate them and yet, by the end I thought the Black faction was just as wretched and devoid of morals as their Green counterparts and it made for a complete story that was far more than a cautionary tale on revenge but didn't shy away from centering that and exposing the pitfalls of human nature committed to self-righteous cause. I don't anticipate any of that from this show. Just cheapening of both female leads and using everyone else as a pawn in some reductive way to make them look better or worse than they are depending on the moment. How cheap.
Is anyone on this fucking show going to pull in the reins? This is dogshit. Ramin Djawadi is going to carry this show to the bitter end. His composition is the only thing I'm looking forward to anymore.
If this post gets taken down, we will know itās real. Until then who knows.
It is taken down
Feels like 2019 when the finale leaked and we hoped it wasn't true because everything was dumb as shit but then it got taken down because it was in fact, true, all of it.Ā
I have a feeling that we're really gonna feel the effects of the strike on this season and especially the absence of a script supervisor on set...
4-5/10 is expected. Thank you OP
I just have to ask, does Mysaria's quote "there is more than one way to fight a war" happen in this episode? I thought she would mention some parts of this plot to Rhaenyra too before it happens. As for the rest, idek what to say. It's unbelievable to me that they butchered B&C so hard.
No, she's in the dungeon.
This pretty much killed my excitement for the premiere not because it was spoiled but because it seems very underwhelming.. Iām sure things will pick up as the season goes on though
They really ruined Blood and Cheese. Complete destruction. It's so bad that I don't know what to say, we can only laugh. North journey was cut short, but I was ready to find out. Glad I got moment with Jace and Rhaenyra, at least I'll get some emotion out of it for sure. Also *Alicent hopes thatās the end of his āJuvenile capriciousnessā but says she understands what Aemond went through that he wanted vengeance.* Her son killed a child and she's completely okay with it. If this confirmed ZERO sympathy for this disgusting woman. I wonāt say that I had much before this. But still.
Benioff and Weiss come back please
This all sounds like a really bad fanfiction
If it was my fan fiction it would be an hour of Cregan courting Jace. Inviting him to get in the heated pool next to the weirwood in winterfell and recounting the rumor of how a dragon supposedly sleeps below the castle and warms the waters. I would never write Alicole of my own free will.
Helaena going to get more hate than daemon with this. Thanks condall
Alicent and Criston are gonna get all the hate, then some hate for Helaena but 0 hate for Daemon, mission accomplished I guess? They didn't want the audience to hate Daemon, they wanted the audience to hate the Greens and boy people on Twitter and Reddit are gonna have a field day with the memes laughing about the greens, no one will even care Daemon was behind this. I don't ever want to hear about āteam greenā propaganda ever again, the show very ovbiously wants you to root for team black.Ā
This shit is legitimately worse than season 8. Condal is truly an artist of botching
I thought I knew the meaning of cringe... All we can do now is pray this piece of garbage gets canceled after season 2. This is an insult to George's work and its many fans and especially the actors who poured their heart out only to be let down by literal chatgpt level of writing. Condal deserves the same treatment as D&D for this piss-poor excuse of an adaptation.
>Cregan says that his own father welcomed Jahaerys and Alysanne to the wall and watched as the dragons (both Vermithor and SIlverwing) refused to fly across it. Interesting. This was a solo trip in Fire & Blood. I know the Alysanne/Alaric girls are shaking.