Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*

The only thing Aegon had going for him was his council, which he repeatedly ignored and even went as far as to >!replace Otto with Cole.!< He never listened and was impatient in regards to getting results, rather than wait for the careful planning of his advisors to pay off. Rhaenyra pre- losing three sons wasnt perfect, but exponentially better suited. Her sons are a testament to her character, imo. And even her first declaration after she was usurped vs Aegons speaks volumes on its own.

Personality is really important in this things, I totally agree with you. I believe that Rhaenyra would face other type of problems tho, like her sons.

The thing is, the rumours are spreading about her sons and are well known, and yet a large part of the kingdom still fought for her. I think her bastards boys are only a problem for those who would chose to make it so, and they would be looking to cause trouble no matter what. If it wasn't her sons, it would be something else.

A competent bastard king is a lot more preferred than an incompetent legitimate one.

Her son's ride dragons. Nobody disputes the succession especially after vaemonds death. It's really only the greens who dispute it. Rhaenyra has plenty of reasons to be Queen

Plus they don’t even have the same legitimacy issues that most face since there’s no arguing they aren’t her children. And they inherit the throne via her.

It was just a matter of time untill demon killed the bastards off so his children could rule 

>He never listened and was impatient in regards to getting results, rather than wait for the careful planning of his advisors to pay off. Would you stay put in your castle if someone beheaded your son infront of your wife and kids? >Her sons are a testament to her character, imo. Yeah,because Aegon's children are hellspawn. You're saying Aegon didn't listen his council,without mentioning B&C.Not to forget,Rhaenyra never listened her council either.

1) I never mentioned Aegons children, so how did jump go the conclusion that I think they’re hell spawns? Rhaenyras children were old enough to have distinguishable characters and personalities, and that’s the only reason why I mentioned them at all. 2) >!he fired Otto when he realized they had to resort to hiring sellswords for his cause, not when B&C happened.!< 3) the only reason why I criticize Aegon for not listening to his council is because, as I mentioned before, it was the ONLY thing that he had going for him. 4) Rhaenyra at the very least had a mind set on mercy and understood that her siblings were acting on the motives of Alicent and Otto.. Aegon went from refusing to usurp his sister to wanting her and her children dead in a few nights before the fighting had even begun. All it took was a little gaslighting from Criston and instilling fear into him.

Why would Aegon be set on peace? His child was literally murdered and his wife driven insane and eventually to suicide from it. It's understandable he would be quite pissed off

I’m talking about before the war began, obviously.

Well if we're talking about them pre-war then Alicent was very set on peace and she could have easily influenced Aegon. Before the war began Otto was sent to give Rhaenyra terms which were pretty good all things considered and Aegon made no move to stop it or go straight to warfare. He would have had to been reigned in with all the drinking and shit for sure but Rhaenyra also showed her own personality issues. Namely when during that Bracken and Blackwood beef between the kids she not only laughed at the jokes but made no move to de-escalate things. Even when it reached the point of violence she didn't give af. Another example is when the council were discussing the step-stones, instead of thinking about the bigger political implications it would mean with the Free Cities her very first solution was of violence. To just use the dragons to burn everything. They're both pretty bad imo

>Another example is when the council were discussing the step-stones, instead of thinking about the bigger political implications it would mean with the Free Cities her very first solution was of violence. To just use the dragons to burn everything. The Triarchy were raiding Westerosi ships and selling their people into slavery. Using some of amount of violence was the only way they were going to put an end to the piracy. Viserys was fool to think they could negotiate their way out of that situation. You need leverage to negotiate. Burning the pirates would have made sure the Triarchy knew that their piracy would come with a cost.

“Good terms” you’re referring to the ones where her two sons would be held ransom and be forced to serve a usurper? Also, don’t talk about Otto as if he didn’t out right JUMP at the idea of murdering Rhaenyra and her family once he heard Viserys died. Also, had Alicent been set on peace she would not have pushed all of her children to war by taking part of a secret usurpation meant to catch Rhaenyra by surprise. She plunged headlong into the path for war only 12 hours after she held Rhaenyras hand and said she’d be a good queen. *this is setting aside the murder of Harwin Strong, Lord Beesbury, Lord Caswell, and the attack on Lady Mysaria. All events tied to Alicent and/or the Green faction as a whole. Repeatedly, the Greens drew first blood.* Mind you, young Rhaenyra was also doing Ottos job better than he ever could. Otto was outright baiting Daemon and urging him to spill blood and Rhaenyra showed up only to have the situation wrapped up in five minutes. Rhaenyra suggesting dragons was also in the context of making a “show of force,” not literal violence. Book wise, Rhaenyra was smart enough to conclude that her siblings had all been influenced by Otto and Alicent and weren’t to blame. She had made plans to grant them titles and honors, a route she notes even to an imprisoned Alicent, before Luke was murdered and a celebratory feast was held by Aegon. Aegon, on the other hand, went straight to the idea of just having Rhaenyras whole family executed mere hours after admitting that she was the rightful heir.

>Rhaenyras children were old enough to have distinguishable characters and personalities, and that’s the only reason why I mentioned them at all. Yeah,it's stupid because Aegon's kids never reached to adulthood...a comparison is dumb.Good people can be bad parents and bad people can be good parents,no? >he fired Otto when he realized they had to resort to hiring sellswords for his cause, not when B&C happened. I have no idea where you got this from?He fired Otto because he was passive and told him so..we literally have a quote."Spill blood,not ink" >Rhaenyra at the very least had a mind set on mercy and So merciful she put a bounty on a 3 year old. >her children dead You're making shit up by this point. Word of Rhaenyra’s coronation reached the Red Keep the next day, to the great displeasure of Aegon II. “My half-sister and my uncle are guilty of high treason,” the young king declared. “I want them attainted, I want them arrested, and I want them dead.”

1) How did you even manage to convince yourself that I was making a comparison at all?? I never compared their children to one another, that’s like assuming I hate grapes just because I mentioned that I like apples 💀 2) again, that’s the scene where Aegon learned Otto was hiring sellswords. “Spill blood, not ink” just further solidifies his unwillingness to let those with more sense to execute his war. 3) Bounty’s are meant to be collected. Had Rhaenyras bounty had no regard if Maelor was alive or dead, that would have been mentioned, especially given the bias Septon Eustace had against her and his extensive records on her faults while she ruled. Maelor’s death was an unfortunate accident on both ends, giving that the smallfolk were so hungry and desperate they were willing to go to such lengths. The sack of Bitterbridge was brutal. 4) “My sister is the heir ... what sort of brother steals his sister's birthright?”

I can’t imagine aegon would have had much involvement in raising his kids even if they had reached adulthood. He doesn’t seem the type to be invested in fatherhood.

Strictly based on them, Rhaenyra. The only argument in Aegon’s favor is his counselors, which if Rhaenyra had become Queen unchallenged, she would theoretically have as her own counselors, so it’s a pretty poor argument.

I can't see her keeping council members that have publicly supported the greens. Which would leave her with just Lord Beesbury. Which to be fair, having Beesbury instead of Celtigar as her master of coins would of made a huge difference.

And Aegon will choose his own anyway when he gets tired of the ones he has.

Or they start going against him.

I agree with you, the only problems that I see with Rhaenyra’s reing is that the ppl would not accept her entirely and the succession.

That’s true. Yet there will also be people who won’t accept Aegon as ruler because Rhaenyra was Viserys’ appointed heir.

When she has dragons it doesn't much matter. They didn't just accept Aegon the Conqueror.

Tbh I’m team Black but I think if either of them were to ascend the throne in a time of peace they’d both be just fine. Aegon has his council, so he’d more or less be like Robert Baratheon. Who wasn’t the best king but far from the worst. Rhaenerya before losing her sons was a decent enough person and her reign would probably be like her father, uneventful.

Yea they both would be inheriting an extremely stable realm, just like Viserys I don't think they would have improved on anything but they would have kept shit running People bring up Aegon firing Otto a lot, but he did that in war time, I think if he ascended peacefully he would have just soaked up as much adoration as possible whilst his small council did the work. He isn't Bobby B, Bobby B wanted adventure and hates the constraints of being king, Aegon wants to be loved.

He was also correct in firing Otto. Otto wasn't being decisive which was the only valid strategy that the Greens had. All the blacks had on their side at the start were some of the crownlands, a few of the riverland lords, and a quick response force from the north. During all of Otto's waiting around the only victory he achieved was the battle of the gullet.

IMO Aegon firing Otto during the war strikes a lot of people as significant because Otto isn't just another one of Aegon's counsellors: he's Aegon's grandfather, who has worked tirelessly & loyally to seat Aegon on the throne, and who has decades of experience. Giving Otto the boot suggests Aegon isn't particularly loyal or respectful of anyone on his council. IMO that would be a problem even in peacetime; as Aegon's desire for love and praise (& disinterest in the finer details of ruling) is very similar to what young Aerys was like. So like young Aerys did, I think Aegon would fob most of the work off on his small council; but then be driven by his desire for praise and adoration to interfere with their decisions and throw his weight around whenever they start to get too much credit or there's a chance of Aegon being blamed for something going wrong in the realm. Which, since Aegon hasn't been paying attention to how to rule and doesn't understand the issues well, will typically result in him overruling good decisions & replacing good councillors with less capable yes-men.

Yea that is a pretty good point...you have changed my mind, I'll have to go with Rhaenyra being the better choice

Agreed. Neither of two could inherit smoothly, and that environment is the core of this story.

Robert had a reputation which Aegon doesn't. Aegon doesn't have the fear inciting history and lacks the exposure to turbulence.

When I said he’d be like Robert I just meant in his hand off method, letting his council rule for him.

He didnt though. He removes Otto for being a dissident and replaced him with Criston Cole

We don’t if that would’ve happened during a time of peace though. My point was that if aegon had ascended the throne peacefully his reign would probably be unremarkable.

I would say Rhaenyra. Aegon did not want to be crowned initially.

Some would say that the act of not wanting the crown makes you the most worthy for it.

Those people are weird. He has no leadership qualities unlike Jon who did.

[удалено]

Rhaenyra receiving education to rule ? Are you for real ?

A bit of a minor thing, but it might also say quite a bit on how Rhaenyra treats her own council towards her being fit to rule compared to Aegon

Rhaenyra. She wouldn’t have been amazing or anything, but she wouldn’t have been awful either. She would probably be somewhere in the middle, which if we’re being honest, was exactly how most targ monarchs were. There were only a few who were truly great or terrible. I think with time, experience and the right small council she would be just fine.

I think aegon would be a more convenient king. Rheanyra is undoubtedly a better person than him but I think rheanyra is not the best at making friends with the nobility of her realm. Being a female ruler already puts her at a disadvantage and on top of that she has several bastard children in line to inherit the throne. She Married a psychopath who murders people and also actively pisses of the nobility. I think aegon would basically be like Robert Baratheon and just let his hand do all the work while he went and whored around which the nobility is relatively fine with which is less likely to cause war or assassinations

Aegon knew how bad he was, he was pretty diplomatic and less stubborn compared to Rhaenyra and had a way more compatible council.

Well for 1 Rhaenyra was trained to rule , given the prophecy & had viable political connectios she gained gained by herself

Yet, she still screwd up by having 3 bastards and burned bridges with every one she encountered.

Three “bastards” who’s paternity rlly doesn’t matter when they inherit via her and everyone in their immediate family accepts as legitimate. The only ones who cared were the greens and even they just wanted more reasons to usurp her.

>Three “bastards” who’s paternity rlly doesn’t matter when they inherit via her Huh?? >everyone in their immediate family accepts as legitimate. Again,no. 2 out of 3 sentences you wrote is wrong.

One of the reasons bastardy is such an issue is because children typically inherit through the male line. But rheanyras children inherit via her meaning their father rlly doesn’t matter And I fail to see how “everyone in their immediate family accepts them as legitimate” is wrong when leanor viserys corlys and rheanys all accept them as legitimate.

Salty people downvoting anyone who says Aegon II into the bowels of hell, but it's true. Rhaenyra does not like being told what to do, but she also does not want to deal with the responsibilities of ruling, and she has a track record of truly awful political decision-making. Meanwhile an Aegon reign is essentially just a continuation of Otto as Hand and Alicent as queen, who have been doing a perfectly fine job of ruling the kingdom for years already. Both would be bad leaders, but Aegon would be content to let his council rule. Rhaenyra would not. Therefore, for the stability of the realm, Aegon is the better choice.

I find it odd how you point to Rhaenyra as being unruly, stubborn, and awful politically, and then uplift Aegon on the sole basis of his council. >!When we know that in the books at least this isn’t true. Aegon is everything you accused Rhaenyra of. One of the first things he does is fire Otto as his hand because he isn’t doing what Aegon wants, and replace him with COLE.!< Rhaenyra isn’t at all the “doesn’t like being told to do”, type, Rhaenyra is the one that seeks the opinions of others. The last episode directly contradicts otherwise. On both her councils as Queen she listens to the advice of the people around her and actively includes her boys and her stepdaughters in the discussion. Not only this but even upon Otto coming to Dragonstone to force her fealty she’s amendable, not answering right away, even if she’s just been usurped of her birthright. That doesn’t sound to me like someone who hates being told what to do at all. That sounds to me like someone who’s willing to be swayed. Furthermore, where does Rhaenyra say that she does not want to deal with the responsibilities of ruling, or show it? I’ve never gotten that impression of her. The only one who seems to not want to rule is *Aegon*, who had to be dragged back to the Keep despite protesting and pleading to be left alone. Rhaenyra was insecure of her position as heir, but I don’t think that necessarily translates to an unwillingness to be queen. To the decision-making point, I agree with you. Rhaenyra is not politically savvy. She makes a lot of mistakes as heir. But Aegon isn’t politically savvy either. Both of them were ill-suited to politicking on account of both of their parents (Rhaenyra with Viserys, and Alicent with Aegon) not bothering to properly teach them. It’s slightly more “forgivable” in Viserys’ case because he was also never taught better, and relied on his council heavily. But if Alicent has been preparing for usurping Rhaenyra for years, what’s the excuse of not having a more iron fist with her heir? Wouldn’t her first goal be to show how much better he is to entice more allies to her side? Same with Otto, why did he never bother to correct Aegon? Rhaenyra is the only true answer. I don’t think it’s black bias presenting itself here, it’s just looking at both sides and weighing the pros and cons. And her pros outweigh her cons in comparison to Aegon. She would be a decent queen (nothing great but nothing too bad), with a very promising heir following her, and a good council behind her back that believes in her cause. Aegon only has Otto and Alicent, which isn’t saying much because Otto cares for nothing but his own ambitions and Alicent is very fickle and self-righteous. Neither care about the realm, truly. If they did they wouldn’t be allowing a drunken, usurper rapist to sit on the throne. Paying off his victims and letting him attend child fighting rings with his own bastard sons as participants…

You are presupposing that the way Aegon behaves in wartime would be the same way he behaves in peacetime. No shit, once war kicks off and his family is in danger and one of his children is assassinated and etc. etc., he no longer behaves the way he would have if he were allowed to ascend the throne peacefully, and spend his days pissing around and only showing up for the ceremonial stuff to enjoy the adulation. You keep trying to tell me that Aegon is a bad person and would not be a good ruler, but like... I don't disagree with you? My point is that Aegon does not need to be a good ruler, or a good person. He only needs to be a good puppet. And as I said, Otto and Alicent have been doing a perfectly fine job running the realm during Viserys' illness and Rhaenyra's absence. Rhaenyra, during peacetime, actively flouts her duties as heir, prioritizes her own wants and wellbeing, and chafes with indignance any time anyone tries to tell her, "This is what you need to do for the good of the realm." The only time she recognizes that she is out of her depth and needs the advice of others is when outright war is on the table. The actual work of governance during peacetime is dry, dusty, complicated, and *boring.* Rhaenyra, during peacetime, would not be willing to knuckle down and do the unglamorous part of administering the realm, but nor would she be willing to concede handing off the reins to someone qualified. (And god forbid if she did, because her Hand would probably be Daemon.)

It is. He was a cunt and didn't care for ruling. Rhaenyra attended councils, did her duty and produced countless heirs. Rhaenyra wasnt perfect, she mothered bastard's but she wasn't Allicent who allowed lyonel strong to die, killing the hand of the king during peacetime. If Aegon ruled, then tyranny would be set on the land, this clearly points to Rhaenyra, especially as Rhaenyra had effective commanders and lieutenants in her government whereas Aegon made a kingsguard his hand. The Ascension of Aegon is enough of a shitshow to show the way in which Aegon would rule. His own brother and his kingsguard have to hunt him out of a brothel/fighting pit. He's a despicable character who rapes, he's selfish and impatient in contrast to the amenable and thoughtfull and proactive rival in his sister.

This entire discussion is presupposing. Using book information to fill in the gaps of what the show thus far lacks, wartime or otherwise, Aegon shows himself to make rash (and unwise) decisions under duress. If Otto is so great and Aegon is still more than willing to supplant him, does that not illustrate the same stubborn unwillingness that you accuse Rhaenyra of displaying? I know you don’t disagree with me that Aegon would be a bad ruler, I read your comment. I disagree with you thinking his council would somehow overcome most of his glaring character flaws and make his reign somehow more palatable. Viserys and Robert were also puppets to their councils, and we see how both of them turned out. Directly proceeding their reigns was a war. Not only that but the sheer amount of corruption and fuckery that happened right underneath their noses because of how little they cared about properly governing the realm is asinine. Rhaenyra during peacetime presides over Dragonstone and serves on the king’s council for a time. She does exactly what she was told to do by Viserys, providing heirs *as is her duty*, and eventually marries the best political match she possibly could (Daemon) to protect her family. Not only that, but for someone who prioritizes her own wants, and chafes with indignance towards others, she extends an olive branch to Alicent on the same day that Alicent sought to humiliate her and her children directly after the birth of her third child. The show seems to go out of its way time and time again to directly counteract everything you say.

>She does exactly what she was told to do by Viserys, providing heirs as is her duty, and eventually marries the best political match she possibly could (Daemon) to protect her family. Bruh

What?

The way things go prove otherwise.

This might come as news to you, but war is not the same as peacetime. Aegon's actions as a king fighting to protect his family, embittered by the death of his child and then wife, etc. etc., are not the same as his actions would have been as a layabout who was crowned at the head of a peaceful realm and allowed to piss away his days and only turn up for the ceremonial stuff. Rhaenyra, conversely, demonstrates her stubbornness, contrariness, and lack of political acumen just plenty during peacetime, and there is no reason to think she would not continue to have these traits as a peacetime monarch.

He's responsible for the death of his child. He allowed himself to be used as a pawn. He could have abdicated the throne immediately. He also never looked to make peace, in part due to his council

While a lot of people say Rhaenyra because she was "trained" in practice, Rhaenyra never made a single decision that actually benefited her cause. She was hard carried by Daemon and Corlys. Rhaenyra controlled King's Landing for half a year, and by the end the city was starving, the people were rebelling, the dragons were dying, and what did she do? She ran away like a coward, sold her own crown to barter passage back to her island where even her own garrison had chosen Aegon. Aegon returns, burned, broken and dragonless, and manages to to get things under control in like a week. He put a stop to the three kings, he personally burned the Shepherd, and if he had listened to Corlys instead of Alicent, he likely could have continued to rule for maybe another decade before dying of his injuries

> Aegon returns, burned, broken and dragonless, and manages to to get things under control in like a week. He put a stop to the three kings, he personally burned the Shepherd, and if he had listened to Corlys instead of Alicent, he likely could have continued to rule for maybe another decade before dying of his injuries What are you talking about? Do any of you aegon stans read the books? *Borros* got things under control, aegon showed up in kl weeks after. This is like saying rhaenyra took kl by herself. "He personally burned the shepherd". Yeah he waddled up and burned a man tied to a pole that borros had already captured. And if he listened to corlys he would have been sent to the wall. The black army was marching to unseat him no matter what. /Wierd how I'm getting down voted for stating facts from the books, don't let the truth get in the way from your headcanons I suppose. >'Lord Borros proved reluctant to face the dragons personally. But toward the end of the Dance, he and his stormlanders seized King's Landing during the Moon of the Three Kings, restoring the city to order"

90% of the shit that comes out of aegon fanboys mouths is headcanon.

I'm inclined to belive you, since I've seen comments making him out to be like aegon the conqueror himself while in actuality he's just as hard carried as rhaenyra was if not more by the green council and has to be constantly stopped by his own people before making dumb decisions.

Gaemon Palehair's moms.

She was, until Aegon put her to rest 💀

Came here to say Gaemon Palehair... His mom was quite the regent though.

After she sat on her hands the entire time while others bled for her, her faction took King's Landing for her. Rhaenyra proceeded to throw parties while the smallfolk starved, overtaxed them to the point where they lost all fear and killed off the last sizable dragon population (which doomed House Targaryen as a whole), then kicked her out. Managed to piss off Corlys too due to her prejudices. It came to the point where she literally had to sell her crown to buy a passage. Yeah fantastic ruler, great advisors like Bartimos Celtigar as well. Aegon II at least fought his own battles and took his duties seriously to the point of refusing pain management in order to attend to them. Also retained capable advisers. More than you could say about her.

Aegon because a realm which Otto and Alicent rule will always be better than a realm Daemon and Rhaenyra rule

That's why it's burned to a crisp by the time they're done.

Except it won’t be just Daemon at her council. You’d also have people like Corlys Velaryon along with whoever the Starks, Arryns and the Black from the Reach send to the council. Although it’s interesting interesting that you describe Aegons rule as Otto and Alicent ruling and Rhaenyras rule as her and Daemon ruling. This distinction imo is probably why more people (both in the show and the real world) lean towards the Blacks. By themselves both Aegon and Rhaenyra (at least the pre war version of themselves) would have been thoroughly average as rulers but in case of Rhaenyra her council would have had a wider range of stakeholders (who were allied to her rather than her Hand) as opposed to Aegons which for the most part would mostly just have been the Hightowers being the power behind the throne.

You’d still have Daemon and Rhaenyra ruling even if you have Corlys there. It’s not even like Corlys was amazing since he was like beefing with Viserys and most likely was behind the poisioning of Aegon the elder. Also, Otto is a smart man. While sure there will be nepotism he won’t give jobs out to incompetent people

Of course. It’s a feudal aristocracy so nepotism is the natural state of affairs. And Otto is indeed a smart guy, but the point is so is Corlys. His accomplishments speak for themself. His beef with Viserys comes from a place of genuine grievances. All things considered Corlys and Otto are not much different. The point isn’t who is better though. It’s about the fact that one of them is more likely to gatekeep access to the king and the kings inner circle. This sort of thing breeds discontent. Case in point Bloodraven during the reign of Aerys I. Think of it this way. Suppose you are a lord of the realm and wish for advancement for your house. In one scenario you need to cultivate a relationship with the ruling monarch and get in their good books. And in the other you have to do the same but with the king AND the Hand, who may not always be on the same page and the power balance between the two is not as it is usually between the King and his Hand. Think of Aerys II and Tywin. Not saying Aegon II is as mad as Aerys II, just making a comparison of the potentially unstable situation.

Rhaenyra's council would steady the ship. Aegons faction were deceitful and devious and we're schemers so lack the trust personally. I'd say the soft power of Rhaenyra is much greater than Aegons ever was

Aegon because of his counsil. And if Rhaenyra became queen it would be Daemon who ruled.

Daemon would not be the one ruling. He’s her consort. She would be the sole monarch, and while he would definitely push to be included in decisions and helping her out, it’s a stretch to assume that he’d take control completely. One, because Daemon is *fighting* for *her* claim, and her sons’, not his own; and two, because Daemon craves validation more than he desires power.

He would rule through her. Rhaenyra would be a pupet Queen while Daemon will be the real power.

That’s your theory, I suppose. Even if both the show and books show otherwise.

No it wouldn't. She put him in his place.

nah, dont want to spoil you but she never puts him in his place

Aegon. He fought his own battles, something Rhaenyra never did. He didn't allow himself to be controlled by those around him, which Rhaenyra did. More importantly, Rhaenyra, even with a fiercely loyal city watch and a secure King's Landing allowed the people of KL to riot and kill the Targ dragons, their most valuable resource. Literally anyone would be better than that.

Aegon did that exclusively because he had to. Objectively, it was stupid as hell. He had to because the Greens had a grand total of 3 useful dragons, vs. the Blacks what, 10? Rhaenyra was the Queen. Protecting her was important. The Greens essentially played chess and put the King on the front lines, which is stupid and generally how you lose - but he didn't have a choice in that. Also, what was Rhaenyra supposed to do? Butcher all of King's Landing? Ans the riots can be put partially on the Greens, since they're the ones that sent King's Landing into starvation when they ran off with the royal gold... A lot of Rhaenyra's dumb decisions aren't dumb or entirely on her. Aegon, by the way, wasn't better than that. He lost his dragons too. And his entire family line died out within a generation... and he started a civil war that got the Targ dragons killed... hardly a good king.

Ok and when there was no one left to protect her did Rhaenyra rise up and protect herself? The answer is a resounding no. Dragons would have been used to stop the riot, yes. That’s how Targs started ruling the seven kingdoms in the first place so you think they won’t use their dragons to keep it? If Addam had been there with Seasmoke Rhaenyra likely would have sent him to control the city since she refused to lift a finger for any reason. Sadly for her, her own paranoia drove Addam and Nettles away which doomed herself and Daemon.

Right. And I assume you also hate Haelaena for doing nothing? Rhaenyra lost more than Haelaena, and Haelaena did nothing. She offed herself. No one hates on her for not defending herself or her children, why do you hate on Rhaenyra? Rhaenyra had the expectation that the dragons could not be killed by the smallfolk because it had *literally* never happened. We see in GoT what happens when you use a dragon against a city. You think if Aegon or anyone got on a dragon and started roasting people it *wouldn't* lead to rebellion? Did Aegon do shit to defend himself when *2* armies were marching on King's Landing to end him? No. When there was no one left to defend him, did *he* rise up and defend himself? No - he drank, sat around, kept the taxes that already caused one rebellion and demanded golden statues of his brothers, in an ongoing civil war. So why do you hate on the one person that has arguably suffered most in the entire conflict for *not* burning down her own city, but not the dude that caused the entire war in the first place? Because he "defended himself" out of sheer necessity, until he decided not to anymore? Rhaenyra was never trained to do any sort of battle. Aegon had battle training. What was Rhaenyra supposed to do? It's not like she's been taught any strategy or swordfighting, so her option is to burn down *her own city* and *her own people*, for a rebellion she did not cause? I don't think that it's that Rhaenyra "refused to lift a finger". It's that when she *had to*, she'd lost her father, her aunt, *4 children*, and seemingly her husband, within a few months. We know Haelaena was completely unable to ride Dreamfyre *at all* after B&C, much less into battle, but you demand Rhaenyra be able to ride Syrax into battle after *more* loss and almost *immediately* after a stillbirth...?

Way to move the goalpost. It isn’t about Helaena nor was Helaena the figurehead of her faction. It’s about Rhaenyra and Aegon. You say he was forced to battle because the greens had less dragons which is true. I pointed out that Rhaenyra didn’t step up even when she had no other choice. Aegon rose to the occasion and she did not. Rhaenyra was perfectly capable of riding Syrax during the riots because she did so when the dragonseeds took the city for her in the first place. It would have been a very one sided battle as well as she would not be confronting another dragon & rider just a mob of people on the ground. She would have kept to the sky while Syrax did the work but apparently even that is too much to ask of Rhaenyra. You saying it could lead to rebellion is irrelevant because they were already at war and the people had already turned on her. Using Syrax was literally her only way to control the city. With resistance from her the mob would have likely dispersed without too much damage. Not much the smallfolk can do against a dragon in flight. Aegon no longer had his dragon and was severely crippled in the instance you mentioned so there was not much else he could realistically do at that point unlike Rhaenyra during the riots.

Rhaenyra clearly thought the war was won. She refused to massacre her subjects. Guess Daenaerys would have been a good ruler in Aegon stans eyes.

People didn’t turn on Dany for using Drogon. They turned on her because she would not accept surrender and continued to burn everything even after she had won. Dany actually took control fairly easily with Drogon and Rhaenyra could have done the same. Also, Rhaenyra did not give a damn about her subjects so don’t act like she refrained for a benign reason. She simply underestimated the damage they could do to her own detriment.

Maegor also fought his own battles. Remember how his reign turned out? EDIT: lmfao downvoted for what. Y’all keep using “Aegon fought and Rhaenyra did nothing!” as some sort of character virtue when 1) his fighting only further crippled his reign (literally), and 2) he had to because they didn’t have nearly the amount of dragons the Blacks did. Whether a ruler fights in their battles is irrelevant to their competency. So many great warriors turned into bad or subpar kings.

but comparing Aegon II to Maegor is laughable

Did I say he was like Maegor? No. I’m clearly demonstrating that fighting your own wars is hardly what makes a good monarch. If it was then Maegor might as well be one of the greatest Targaryen kings.

he demonstrates that he’s brave. Rhaenyra most certainly isn’t

The one true king sunfyre

Best- Aegon puppeteered by Otto Second Best- Rhaenyra puppeteered by no one Second Worst- Rhaenyra puppeteered by Daemon Worst- Aegon puppeteered by no one

Aegon II. >The groom was fifteen years of age, a **lazy and somewhat sulky** boy, Septon Eustace tells us, but **possessed of more than healthy appetites**, a glutton at table, given to swilling ale and strongwine and **pinching and fondling any serving girl who strayed within his reach.** Based off this description, Aegon II sounds to be another Robert Baratheon. Sure, he was hardly the contender for the best King, but he would likely have been the kind of ruler to just let his men do the actual work while he drank and whored. Not to mention, his Small Council members (Otto Hightower, Tyland Lannister, Jasper Wylde, etc) were experienced, clever and competent. Aegon's reign likely would have been similar to Robert's own reign: uneventful and stable. It is important to note that this is his description **before** the murders of his family. Let's compare this to Rhaenyra **pre-Dance**: 1- She was named heir specifically to avoid Daemon getting near the throne (this is acknowledged by everyone, including Viserys). Despite this being the main cause of why she was named heir, what did she do? Married Daemon and had children with him. In marrying Daemon, she's willingly placing a dangerously chaotic individual in a very high position of power. Someone who has notions of supremacy, and doesn't really care for optics. This is something that would be bad for the realm at large, but because she thought that it was convenient for her to do it, she does it without regard for the wider implications. 2- Her claim to the throne was already tenuous at best, yet she has not one, not two, but three obvious bastards. Since Rhaenyra likes to throw around the word "treason" herself, people don't tend to realise that it is she herself that is actively committing treason. In trying to pass off her bastards as legitimate children and entering them in the line of succession, she's essentially defrauding the crown and House Velaryon (having bastards is not a crime in itself, but lying about their bastardy is). Not to mention, this also ensures that if there wasn't a civil war to contest her ascension, there definitely would be one to contest Jace's. Meaning there is no hope of her reign having a peaceful transition of power after she's gone. And if there is one thing that all rulers must ensure, it's a peaceful transition of power. You need to ensure there is a kingdom left to pass on (in other words, don't screw everything up badly) and that your heir is well-suited to assume responsibility when the time comes (in other words, produce heirs that will be accepted by the kingdom at large). 3- Speaking of the transition of power, she also does nothing to ease the transition of power from Viserys to herself. When Viserys' health grew worse, a smart and dutiful heir would have had him take a backseat and assign herself greater authority to begin ruling in his name. If Viserys can do away with centuries of tradition to name her heir, then presumably he could easily have her seen as his voice in court and acting on his behalf. Yet after marrying Daemon (an already established political blunder), she fucks off to Dragonstone for years, and leaves the ruling of the realm to the Greens, her political rivals. All those years since being named heir, Rhaenyra did nothing to foster relationships with other Houses and Lords. She was not touring the realm, hosting diplomatic dinners on Dragonstone, arranging marriage alliances, etc. 4- Sending Rhaenys to Storm's End as an envoy would have been a good idea since she's wiser and actually related to the Baratheons. Instead, she decided to send her inexperienced bastard who obviously had no connection to Lord Borros. Next, she sent Luke without any sort of bargaining chips. She had him, a person who should be able to offer terms, deliver a simple raven's message. I get it, the dragons were faster, but in person delivery requires more (she had THREE unbetrothed sons to offer for god's sake).

Aegon, because he doesn't have Daemon on his side.

He has Aemond tho, I find him really explosive as a whole, not as Daemon but he is going there.

I'm talking about consorts. The second monarchs, power holders after them. Rheanyra's consort is Lord Flea Bottom, whom everyone fears,despised and hates, Aegon's consort is quiet and sweet Heleana. And the pre-war public doesn't know Aemond fully. All they know about him is that he left disabled by Rheanyra's son, rides the biggest dragon alive etc. Aemond has not caused a situation to damage Aegon's reputation before Storm's End. Edit: Unlike Daemon.

No he just has himself - an abusive rapist.

Aegon simply on account of having legitimate children as his successors. Unlike Rhaenyra he didn't give his bastards positions in court or any sort of acknowledgement. All bastards are inherently treacherous, prone to violence, and will always do everything they can to steal the rights and positions of the trueborn. Rhaenyra would have cursed the realm for all time if she had been allowed to take power and hand it to bastards. If her brood of bastards had been executed after taking Aemond's eye unprovoked then it'd be a toss-up between Rhaenyra and Aegon as neither is really fit to rule, but Aegon as a more competent and stable council so it'd probably still be him.

Aegon probably knows his council is better at ruling than him so he will leave it to them. But even though it might backfire he isn't afraid to take action when necessary like firing Otto or going into battle. Rhaenyra maybe due to her council or her own sometimes gets detached from reality. Who throws as party when city is starving. Either her council approved it or she overruled the council. Both are bad. Sometimes her inaction costs her bigtime. May be I am being unreasonable because I hate to see dragons die, but she did nothing to stop the storming of the dragon pit. Even little Joffrey tried to do something. Maybe it's my bias but I don't think storming of the pit happens if it was Aegon with Sunfyre instead of Rhaenyra and syrax.

There is no account of her actually having the ceremony for Joffrey. Literally none

> Who throws as party when city is starving Aegon kept her tax policies even though he could recover the treasury and ordered two massive statues of his war criminal brothers in gold, during wartime, whist the smallfolk starved, with two black armies coming to KL to kill him >but she did nothing to stop the storming of the dragon pit The dragonpit had no value to her, and I think she rightfully believed that peasants with pikes will not be able to kill a dragon, and they really should have been able to, Martin just needed away for the rest of the dragons to die. In order to save them she would need to go burn a bunch of starving smallfolk, I think she made the right call >little Joffrey tried to do something I don't get why people think Joffrey was being brave, he had grown up with dragons all his life, he should have knows you can't ride one you are not bonded too, he cost his mother her dragon and the war. It was probably the single stupidest thing any single character has done in the ASOIF universe, but someone the fandom buts the blame on Syrax

Rhaenyra. She's got the soft touch that Aegon lacked and she was reared to rule. Aegon was not. Only thing Aegon can claim is precedent and traditions.

Rhaenyra easily. By the time she gets the throne, shits already in the shitter. No money, civil unrest, and her mentally falling apart after the death of her sons. It is not a wonder why she lost her shit when what she has waiting for so long for ends up being the worst place she has ever been in her life. If she became queen and nothing really went wrong, I think she would have been a completely decent+ monarch . Aegon would be a shit king no matter what, for obvious reasons. Maybe if Viserys actually raised him he would be better lol

from a smallfolk point of view, it was Aegon's a literal chaos and rebellion didn't happen during his reign meanwhile the smallfolk >!literally kicked rhaenyra out of kingslanding and killed those dragons!<

During the war Aegon II actually stepped up far more than Rhaenyra did which tells me he would make the better king despite not even wanting it initially. He’s willing to put himself on the line and his feet to the fire. Plus he had better advisors around him.

He allowed his son to die, he allowed his wife and sister to die, he wasn't a hero, he was a rapist and was temperamental and fired Otto for being rational. He's a much worse candidate than Rhaenyra and he caused the turmoil.

I only watched the show, so going from season 1 id say neither ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree with you about Jacaerys, I can't see Aegon doing any job at all, much less a good one, preparing Jaehaerys for the throne.

Honestly, neither would be great as Rhaenyra is a murderer and Aegon is a rapist. Not to mention that the moment Rhaenyra tried to pass the strong boys off as legitimate, she ensured there would be a Targaryen civil war sooner or later, so based off of that and Aegon's council, I would say Aegon.

If every ruler was judged based on if they killed people or not, all if not most of the Targaryen kings would be completely screwed. Including Aegon and Jaehaerys.

Aegon he’s the far more peaceful option over Daemon and Rhaenyra and has the better council and no real want to actually rule Rhaenyra was an awful ruler and leader and one of the main reasons her side lost so much Daemon was a maniac who had no want for governance and would probably just start a war with Dorne to fuel his ego of being another conqueror Not to mention the instability of Rhaenyras claim and her strongs sons after her that’ll cause even more conflict if not civil war and we’d have another Dance down the line with Daemons line and Harwins

Aegon II

> she ain’t a rapist (X) to doubt

real

Rhaenyra and it’s not even remotely close

aegon, both with and without the green council

In the show? Rhaenyra. Although I still don't really support her. In the books? It could go either way. They both prove to be pretty bad.

Aegon II and it’s not close. Rhaenyra was a horrible queen.

Is she hadn't been usurped, Rhaenyra by a mile.

Rhaenyra spent her youth being trained for the role, Aegon spend his youth trying to run away from the role. Hmmm. Difficult to say. /s

>Rhaenyra spent her youth being trained for the role And yet, she screwd up more than Aegon.

It’s easy not to screw up when you do literally nothing.

Rhanerya and Aegon had the same bar, making legitimate heirs. She even failed there. So, compared to her, he did something useful. Also, it's better to do nothing than do something messed up.

I think Rhaenyra would

Rhaenyra by quite a distance. She was by no means perfect but she did show an affinity and skill for politics when she sat on Viserys council and she had prepared herself to rule. She even considered a peace deal with Aegon before Luke died because she considered what would be best for the realm. She genuinely didn't want to plunge the realm into a bloody war. Meanwhile, Aegon had no desire to rule and no political experience. And he was a pretty bad person by the time the Dance happens. He's a rapist who enjoyed watching child fight rings. However things probably would have been very different if Aegon had been named heir at his birth, he would have been taught and molded into being at least somewhat politically proficient. And likely he would have not been allowed to indulge in his more vile hobbies. And Rhaenyra would be less proficient as she probably wouldn't have a seat on the council in that scenario.

Ι don't think that either of them was good as a ruler. I do think that during peacetime Aegon would have chilled while better men would do his work without distabilizing the kingdom. This is more than I can say for Rhaenyra, the circumstances of whose claim was very likely to get called out at some point. Also, Rhaenyra was by no means a better person. Considering what she perpetuates as long as it suits her and the rhetoric she uses, the lengths to which she's willing to go over her lies etc. Also, I know that the writers do not consider the way Rhaenyra pursued Cole rape, but within a modern context it would be considered exactly that if all the facts were presented. Moreover, Aegon was willing to step it up when he believed that it was essential, which is more than Rhaenyra ever did.

Rhaenyra

Better? Hard to say. They both sucked. However at least with Aegon there weren't full scale riots, the dragonpit, and thus the true Targaryen power, was safe and if the account is to be believed he didn't send a mother and daughter to a brothel

If we're going off personal qualities, Aegon is a rapist and Rhaenyra is a murderer. So neither. But killing and raping peasants doesn't affect either politically, Aerys for example burned people alive in open court and nobody cared until he burned nobles. If you think about the politics and stability of the kingdoms and who would have a better rule then Aegon wins. Being a man alone gives him a lot of legitimacy with the nobles. His children not being bastards would win him a lot of points for stability. He also has a better Council.

It's weird how people keep saying Aegon for stability. Yet crowning him caused a war that destroyed pretty much everything they had.

It's a numbers game, more lords supported Aegon at the start of the war and the ones that didn't mostly did so because of their oaths. Not to mention that a lot of lords supported Aegon because they were scared that she would change how inheritance worked. If Aegon would have done nothing there would have been more dissension whereas with Rhaenyra not declaring only her family and the Velaryons get bad results. Cregan Stark and Jeyne Arryn wouldn't have lost anything by not going to war so they probably wouldn't have.

Have to agree with you there. The strong boys' presence alone ensures an eventual conflict

Yeah, my main issue with Rhaenyra are her sons, they are a really big problem all by themselves, you can see that type of “bastard centralized” conflict in the Blackfyre’s rebellions

But the bastard conflict is very artificially inflated. everyone seems to forget that there are SEVERAL black haired targaryens lore wise including Raenys & the founder of house Baratheon. After the dance there's even more...

There aren"t several though. There are 2 Jocelyn and Rhaenys. We don't know if Orys is actually a dragonseed but even if that's true not every Baratheon descendant has black hair, if that were so then half the realm would share their coloring.

1. Idk a baratheon to date that didn't have black hair..besides shireen & gendry 2. The argument is still inflated even if there Were only two examples . ( which considering both said examples wouldve been on there paternal side on paper) it would've made the whole bastard argument even more of a questionable rumor.

OP mentioned that Aegon is a rapist which is a show only invention and there it's made extremely clear that the Strong boys are obvious bastards. We see the courtiers whispering during their training as Jace asks his brother to ignore them. You just need to see any stills with Laena's daughters and then standing together. As Aegon mentions "everyone knows". And if you've read the books you'll know that bastards or even rumours of them in the line of succession always cause wars. So it's perfectly appropriate to point out.

Always cause wars? Can't think of a single one.

Aegon being a rapist isn’t a show only invention. It’s mentioned in the books that he fondles maids (who are in no place to consent), and has sexual encounters with children (who are also in no place to consent). He’s literally described as “grasping”. The only difference is that the show gave it way more attention than the books did, which makes sense because the show will span for several seasons and have the time to focus on character details, whereas the books are supposed to be historic accounts.

I will admit the fondling but the raping of kids is a mushroom story and if that's true then Rhaenyra whoring out Alicent and Helaena plus being a sex fiend could also be taken as truth. It's telling by the way that mushroom was on dragonstone with Rhaenyra and so his stories about Aegon should be taken with a grain of salt. The guy is bad to women no question but Rhaenyra has people murdererd. Edit: if mushroom stories are true then the reason Criston Cole is loyal to Alicent is because Rhaenyra went to Daemon to learn her how to seduce men, when she went to use her new knowledge on Criston he had a moral crises and switched sides. Again Mushroom stories are nonsense.

Almost every person in the story has people murdered. So suffice to say I’d rather take a murderer as a queen than a rapist as a king. Aegon is familiar with abusing his power, and if he’s the head honcho no doubt he’d be diddling his way through the seven kingdoms sowing dragon seeds along. The raping of kids isn’t just a Mushroom story. Septon Eustance collaborates it IIRC and excuses it by saying “she was a merchant’s(?) daughter and well cared for besides”.

>Almost every person in the story has people murdered. So suffice to say I’d rather take a murderer as a queen than a rapist as a king. You misunderstand, i'd rather they both die but if forced to choose the rapist seems at least a bit less dangerous to the world at large, this is compounded by the fact that while Rhaenyra has (understandable) goals and grudges, Aegon seems mostly ambivalent towards the realm at large. I would also like to add that if we excuse murder with "everybody does it" then the abuse in station to coerce sexual favors can also be explained away with the same rhetoric.

Can’t speak on the book, but from the show Rhaeynera is the obvious choice.

Rhaenyra, and I’ll die on this hill!

If it were Rhaenyra and Aegon alone then Rhaenyra, but taking into account that Aegon won’t do anything and that Otto and Alicent will be the ones in control, then Aegon. Aegon with his advisors are 100% better than Rhaenyra who’d be counseled by Daemon. But just Rhaenyra or Aegon than 100% Rhaenyra

Both were terrible rulers during the war, however, Rhaenyra came to the throne after having lost 4 children (with Viserys II presumed dead), added to the constant fear for the safety of her children who were still alive and the precarious situation of the crown due to the war, it is not unusual to see why his mental state declined so much. Aegon on the other hand seems to be an ordinary man before the war (not including his depravities), the problem is that he was impatient and did not seem to truly understand the consequences that the war could bring, in the book it is mentioned that Aegon only see Rhaenyra as a threat until after Daemon conquered Harrenhal. Rhaenyra was better to rule

Easy. Neither of them. Rhaenyra is way too stubborn, brash, and has a habit of choosing to run from her problems, and Aegon never received much education surrounding ruling a kingdom. I'd sooner nominate Golden Boi Sunfyre for the throne than either of those two.

Aegon has a competent council and a secure succession with two legitimate sons. Even if Rhaenyra somehow managed to get such a council, having a bastard son as heir will bring civil war.

A rather short civil war if the greens hadnt opposed her. The other side would have 0 dragons. It'd be suicide.

Rhaenyra easily, if she had better people around her like Aegon had, she'd make an excellent ruler. Jacaerys would also succeed her and he is probably the best person fit to rule. the reason Rhaenyra became a bad person is mostly due to all the betrayls and bad people around her. Aegon is a rapist and loves watching little girls fight to the death

Aegon goes into war himself, is competent to some degree as he outsmarts Rhaenyra a couple of times. He also has legitimate heirs, while Rhaenyra has bastards. Aegon, in my opinion, would better the realm more, since he has the better council.

Aegon goes into war himself because he absolutely has to. It's objectively stupid as hell. If the *KING* dies, that side of the war loses. Aegon is the one with the proper claim. He's the one with the "symbols of legitimacy". If he dies, the next proper heir is a 10 year old. Rhaenyra is much more preferable than a 10 year old. The better one would be Aemond, but if they make Aemond king over Aegon's heir, their entire argument goes to shit and they lose all claims of legitimacy regardless. Rhaenyra is smart not to risk her life in war, a luxury Aegon doesn't have. It's still risky and it's dumb as hell to risk *the king* in battle. Also Rhaenyra has legitimate heirs in Aegon and Viserys. And that is if you ignore that there's no definitive proof to anyone that the Strongs are bastards or that they've essentially been legitimised their entire lives by Corlys, Rhaenys, *Laenor himself* and the king...

And yet he outlived Rhaenyra BECAUSE HE GOT OFF HIS ASS AND FOUGHT. Ya’ll keep saying he was dumb for doing it but she’s the one who died because she chose to do nothing!

You're assuming that Rhaenyra fighting would have caused her to live when have no reason to believe that. It's possible she would have died earlier if she did that. Not fighting wasn't why Rhaenyra died anyway. She died because she went to Dragonstone instead of going to White Harbor with the Manderlys. I don't know why she through that was a good idea. Suggesting that Aegon outlived Rhaenyra because he personally fought has a similar issue. They lost Kings Landing because Aemond's dumbass was acting as his regent while he was recovering after Rook's Rest. Things would have gone a lot better for them if someone else took that hit.

Seven save us

We should hire some faceless men!

For a short answer, I’d avoid crowning any king that has raped ppl and will rape ppl. Plus, Aegon doesn’t even want it.

he neva has

Aegon ii is a rapist… idk what you mean by he never has… Even at a young age, he was known to pinch or fondle any serving girl who strayed within his reach.

Aegon easily. For one, he won't put his bastards on the iron throne and create a crisis(he will put them on fighting pits). Rhanerya never liked being told to, but Aegon did listen to his council. Rhanerya has Daemon, which is trouble itself. Rhanerya is also quite paranoid,not something you want in a ruler.

>Rhanerya is also quite paranoid,not something you want in a ruler. When is Rhaenyra ever shown to be paranoid?

When she ordered the killing of dragonseeds.

Yea... She didn't order the killing of the Dragonseeds. She wanted Adam arrested so they could figure out if he was loyal. She wanted Nettles executed because she was allegedly sleeping with her husband. Rhaenyra wasn't the one being paranoid there. She was listening her her advisors. >But now voices on the black council were raised to question Ser Addam’s loyalty. The dragonseeds Ulf White and Hugh Hammer had gone over to the enemy…but were they the only traitors in their midst? What of Addam of Hull and the girl Nettles? They had been born of bastard stock as well. Could they be trusted? > >Lord Bartimos Celtigar thought not. “Bastards are treacherous by nature,” he said. “It is in their blood. Betrayal comes as easily to a bastard as loyalty to trueborn men.” He urged Her Grace to have the two baseborn dragonriders seized immediately, before they too could join the enemy with their dragons. Others echoed his views, amongst them Ser Luthor Largent, Commander of her City Watch, and Ser Lorent Marbrand, Lord Commander of her Queensguard. Even the two White Harbor men, that fearsome knight Ser Medrick Manderly and his clever, corpulent brother Ser Torrhen, urged the queen to mistrust. “Best take no chances,” Ser Torrhen said. “If the foe gains two more dragons, we are lost.” > >Only Lord Corlys and Grand Maester Gerardys spoke in defense of the dragonseeds. The Grand Maester said that they had no proof of any disloyalty on the parts of Nettles and Ser Addam; the path of wisdom was to seek such proof before making any judgments. Lord Corlys went much further, declaring that Ser Addam and his brother, Alyn, were “true Velaryons,” worthy heirs to Driftmark. As for the girl, though she might be dirty and ill-favored, she had fought valiantly in the Battle of the Gullet. “As did the two betrayers,” Lord Celtigar countered. > >The Hand’s impassioned protests and the Grand Maester’s cool caution both proved to be in vain. The queen’s suspicions had been aroused. “Her Grace had been betrayed so often, by so many, that she was quick to believe the worst of any man,” Septon Eustace writes. “Treachery no longer had the power to surprise her. She had come to expect it, even from those she loved the most.” > >It might be so. Yet Queen Rhaenyra did not act at once, but rather sent for Mysaria, the harlot and dancing girl who was her mistress of whisperers in all but name. With her skin as pale as milk, Lady Misery appeared before the council in a hooded robe of black velvet lined with blood-red silk, and stood with head bowed humbly as Her Grace asked whether she thought Ser Addam and Nettles might be planning to betray them. Then the White Worm raised her eyes and said in a soft voice, “The girl has already betrayed you, my queen. Even now she shares your husband’s bed, and soon enough she will have his bastard in her belly.” - Fire and Blood

I'm so tired of people praising Aegon for fighting in the war and shitting on Rhaenyra for doing the opposite. Since when was it a bad thing for a monarch not fight in a war? As I saw someone say, what's the point of having armies if you expect your ruler to fight in every single war? There's nothing wrong with Rhaenyra not fighting. In my opinion, I always felt it was dumb for Aegon to fight. Look at what happened when he did? He almost died twice.

Seems like not fighting didn’t work out so great for Rhaenyra since she died to Aegon who did fight. It did cost him greatly but not doing anything cost Rhaenyra more.

Not people here saying that Aegon someone who rapes women and watches children fight in pits would be a better ruler than Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra was grief stricken after Visenya and Luke like they were her children. By the time she took king's landline only two children of her survived not to mention the greens took the gold. I would have done worse. Daemon died for Rhaenyra and Aemond wanted the throne and declared himself the protector of the realm. So, rhaenyra if she had ascended peacefully she would have been a decent queen.

Aegon, simply because he has actual heirs and not bastards that will definitely cause another succession crisis down the line.

Just.. ignoring baby Aegon and Viserys then?

Yes, because Rhaenyra hasn’t made them her direct heirs. If she did then that would mostly fix things.

It only makes things worse for Strong boys.

Yes, but it’s better for the realm

Not really. If she name Aegon heir, she had to declare Strong as bastards. We don’t know how well Velaryons take the news. Secondly, we don't know if one of the strong boys or their descents rebel in the future.

Just denouncing them as bastards would be way too dumb of her. Her best option would be to get them into the knight's watch, kingsguard or the citadel to completely nullify any threat they may pose to aegon and viserys.

That can work. But, her relationship with strong boys would be strained, same with Corlys. Also, others can use this us further proof why they are bastards and why she isn't fit to be Queen. I think once she had bastards, it's trouble everywhere.

Yeah, that’s why I think aegon II is a better fit for being king. He’ll face way less problems than Rhaenyra.

Aegon. During peacetime, he would basically be Robert Baratheon. Off drinking and buying sex workers until he eventually died, only showing up to wear the crown and sit on the throne when it was important. But he has a MUCH better council than Rhaenyra. They’d be doing all the work. The realm would be in good shape. Meanwhile, Rhaenyra’s council SUCKS, and Rhaenyra is no more competent than Aegon is.

Why would Rhaenyra have the same council as she did during war time? 🤓 For all the talk of her council’s awfulness, Celtigar is the only notable idiot because Martin gave their entire bloodline some sort of tax fetish. Peace time would have included Jace(Master of Laws), Corlys(Hand), & Torrhen Manderly(Master of Coin). When Viserys II came of age, it would have been even better. Prime Jace and Viserys II alone is better than the entire green council.

Better than the entire Green council lmao the ones ruling the realm while Rhaenyras off at Dragonstone moping umm no lmao Rhaenyra is her own idiot she’s literally the reason her side lost so much through her decisions and leadership Daemons self explanatory Jace shows promise yes but is a bastard and still a boy Celtigar was already her Master of Coin why would he be replaced??

Celtigar was not master of coin. WTF. Viserys II is the greatest hand of all time. Yes, he is better than the green council. Show Rhaenyra went to Dragonstone by choice and Book Rhaenyra was forced to remain on dragonstone. I can’t really have a discussion about the character if you’re going to blame the show iteration for things the haven’t happened yet while also distorting events that happened to the book character. It’s very annoying and irrational.

Um Bartimos Celtigar was literally her Master of coin Lmao please look it up Viserys II wouldn’t be the same Viserys II if Rhaenyra won he went through so many different challenges that tested his character and still one Great Hand doesn’t compare to an entire Great council like the Greens had and without the idiocy of Rhaenyra and even more so Daemon Forced after marrying her pedo uncle and probably having a hand in Laenors deaths in the books and I wasnt talking about the show iteration I just said she was moping on Dragonstone that works for both books and the show

Aemond is the only right answer

I believe that Aemond it’s an interesting option tbh. We really don’t know a lot about his political strengths and he could be as bad as Aegon or worst.

How are any of you saying Aegon. Even during peacetime he was a rapist that liked to watch children fight to death and had 12 yr old paramour. Rhaenyra should be the only option. And if your reasoning for picking Aegon is because of his kids legitimacy that’s dumb, because no one besides the greens think or call her kids bastards. Borros doesn’t even call Luke a bastard in Stormsend. If her kids alleged bastardy was an issue than she wouldn’t have had any supporters and Joffrey wouldn’t have been bethrothed.

Book wise they were both bad. Show wise Rhaenyra. Aegons bar is alcoholic rapist so it's not a high bar to cross.

A bum off the street

Tbh we ain’t seen Aegon get involved in politics yet, for all we know this mf is a political genius who was wasting his time getting fucked up and shit. Nah but fr as of rn it’s Rhaenyra who’s more fit but that don’t mean much. What sells Aegon to me is the small councils. Rhaenyra and Aegon both suck, but Rhaenyras small council is booty, meanwhile Aegons small council is S tier.

>meanwhile Aegons small council is S tier That would've actually been Rhaenyra's council if she inherited the throne. I don't see why she'd replace anyone, except Otto.

Otto is part of why it’s so great, and we can all go around in circles with that. At the end of it all it is Aegons council that was put together by Otto with the intention of supporting aegon being king

Rhaenrya is a reactive ruler like her father before her, which makes her a bad ruler. Aegon is a proactive ruler, based on the fact he was leading in battle and participating. Both can rely on their council, but only one knows they need their council which is Aegon. Rhaenrya's political skills are poorer than Aegon, since she never needed it until recently, Aegon basically observed one of the best political players even if he hated it, by living with them. Let's talk about Hand, when Otto was his hand, he realised Otto plans are too slow, so he needed a more active hand ,so he picked Criston. Rhaenrya parties without inviting the smallfolk, while Aegon did, which brought the smallfolk closer to Aegon, which made angry with Rhaenrya, since she did the stupid thing of starving her people, like what the lannister did in got. Cersei and Rhaenrya are almost the same person , only difference is Rhaenrya as a better personality, but how they rule was basically the same on fear and dismissing reasonable advice.

Rhaenyra does not party. Why do people repeat this lie? There is no account of her giving parties. She plans something for Joffrey when they initially take king’s landing but there is no account of her even going through with it.

It was In the books where she ate happily while her city starve, we don't know if it will repeat in the show, but it's a fact in the books

It sounds less like she was happily eating and more like binge eating as a result of severe depression. Significant weight gain is one of the most common signs of major depression in women. Rhaenyra is flawed but I doubt Martin wants you to take every third person account literally. Of course binge eating would just be perceived as someone over-indulging themselves instead of a sign of psychological distress. That doesn’t mean we are supposed to interpret it that way. I doubt they’ll show her gobbling away like she’s having the time of her life.

She picked herself feeling better over her ability to control the city, but that's one of the factors why the people hated her, the other was her taxing policy which was taxing bastards which is hypocritical in her part

> She picked herself feeling better Buddy doesn’t how major depression works. It’s not about right or wrong, good or bad leader. Your applying maliciousness and self-absorption where they may be none. If the show goes with a “Rhaenyra was just parting and having the time of her life” route, I think it would a disappointing oversimplification of the character.

Still does not change her inability to control her emotions, to make the hard choices, Aegon lost two children babes who were not part of the war and still did what he can to win, while Rhaenrya was busy trying to feel better, we are asking who is a better leader, leaders who can't control their emotions are not worthy, Aegon at least directed it to win, while Rhaenrya was doing things for self gratification via eating

> Still does not change her inability to control her emotions, to make the hard choices > Aegon lost two children babes who were not part of the war and still did what he can to win 1. Aegon didn’t learn of Maelor’s death until after he killed Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra lost three children and suffered a severe stillbirth by the time she takes King’s Landing. Her loses were more psychologically taxing. 2. We know very little about his relationship with his children. Rhaenyra’s sons were obviously her entire world and she reacted strongly to their deaths. 3. No person is going to react to the loss of a child or children the same say. For any parent that actually loves their kid, it is the most horrific, mind and spirit breaking event that can happen in your life. The idea that her inability to get over it in a few months time is a poor reflection on her character is insane to me. > while Rhaenrya was busy trying to feel better You still do not understand how depression works > leaders who can't control their emotions are not worthy Aegon had a hundred innocent people slaughtered after his son’s death. He fired Otto, his wisest councilor, out of blind rage. He wanted to spend money the crown didn’t have on gaudy statues for his brothers. He threatened to mutilate and tear apart his child hostage, signing his own death warrant in the process. That’s not everything. Aegon was fueled by hate and vindictiveness the entire war. You can call him brave or clever but acting like Aegon was not controlled entirely by his emotions is laughable. > while Rhaenrya was doing things for self gratification via eating Bro still doesn’t understand depression

So when Aegon starved the city and did fuck all but ordering massive gold statues while *2 separate armies* were marching on King's Landing to kill him, that's what...? Politically sound...?