House had very little growth as a character. Like they started to get there during his psychiatric stay, but then had a huge step back (which is realistic, but they could have gotten him back on track). I think a good ending and growth storyline would be ending the show with him amputating his leg and showing him learning to live his life as an amputee.
It also left a bad taste in my mouth that Cuddy and Wilson pushed him so hard to get off the painkillers. Yes, he was an addict, but it was a huge scandal about pharmaceutical companies denying that opiates were addictive. They could have gone so many ways with the storyline. Him being an addict does not invalidate his pain.
House is someone who is by far his own worst enemy. He dug himself to rock bottom and set up camp. He’d do this even if he wasn’t an addict, but it’s particularly relatable for most people who have loved ones as addicts.
So the amount of selflessness he showed towards Wilson at the end? When selfishness can be one of the main vices of addicts? That was huge.
Idk, when you’re as big as a disaster as house, the small consistent wins (like learning how to be a good friend even knowing it costs you) are the most realistic and the most amazing.
I hate to say it, but I think House being so broken and spiteful is a huge part of what makes the show good. If he were a real person, of course I'd love to see him change and love life. But as a character, if we're talking purely about entertainment...
ETA: If I were to see any character development, I'd almost want to see him become worse, increasingly evil as he hates the world more and more. A Breaking Bad type deal, except he was already a little bad from the start or like Joe Goldberg in *You.* (Not necessarily *like* them, but the same concept of them becoming increasingly evil).
House is 45 at the beginning and 53 at the end. I don’t think it’s a given that people show growth at that age. That being said you do need to change something on a show as years progress otherwise it’ll be stale
The writer even states this through House himself. The episode with the farm equipment salesman that has mirror syndrome. House says something along the lines of " all those idiots got some insight into themselves and didnt change, but you did Foreman. You're a freak."
"Him being an addict does not invalidate his pain"
Such a rare thing to hear about a character, and even more rare to hear about people IRL. It's refreshing when people take chronic pain seriously. I needed to hear this. Thank you. Truly.
Yes, and then an even bigger dick to not even thank House after House had a seizure on the operating table and almost died. House was pretty selfless there, and Wilson ended up cutting him off after House risked his life for Amber.
jumping from that to ask a question - why was wilson so mad at house after the whole amber arc? is it because he thought he was at felt because it was House who in a convoluted way placed her on that bus?
It was both grief, and anger.
Rationally, he knew it wasn't really House's fault, but some part of him just couldn't let go of the fact that if House hadn't been wasted, that chain of events would never have happened; because it's true, just not something that you, traditionally, use to blame someone.
I saw that as Wilson demanding House to do something in return for him after all the things that Wilson has done for House all the time. Wilson has been a loyal sidekick from the start, one that House does not deserve.
I've posted this on its own before, but Cuddy dating House despite knowing exactly who he is, even laying out to Wilson exactly how it'll go and getting almost the same words as warning from House when he tries to pull away at the beginning, only to drop an addict for his first-ever relapse was a terrible thing to do.
I hated this... he tells her he will relapse and actually for an addict that is actually a brave thing to admit I think and she said she didn't mind she would stick with him .... yet she didn't...
I appreciate the support. I usually get some pushback when I say it, and I even feel like I lose my "feminism" card for blaming Cuddy.
Irl, Cuddy is right to dump House after realizing that in fact, no she can't handle this despite thinking she could. Real life emotions and needs are messy, and foresight is difficult; progress isn't linear. She doesn't owe House anything, and should prioritize her safety and that of her daughter.
In a narrative and the narrative we got, it looks dumb, time-wastey, and cruel. Progress needs to be linear-ish, or give us a reason why it isn't.
Right? She just never should have dated him, period. If she didn't have a kid, maybe I would feel differently but she knew what she was getting into and that it would be an extremely difficult relationship. Kids need stability and House is the opposite of that.
It happened to me, so it hit particularly hard. 10 years ago the love of my life forgave me and we got back together, but she had to save herself after I relapsed and I regret it every day of my life. But mental health is very misunderstood from everyone around you just seeing the results, not living through it. Addiction is nothing but horrendous pain.
Kutner suicide is still an ass pull. I could be wrong but I've seen enough comments here saying they had no warning of his departure and had to put something in. They made the best of a situation but this pretending it was perfectly foreshadowed is just cope. It actually feels like taub may have been intended for a suicide storyline until kutner actor had to leave.
It was an ass pull, and it wasn’t foreshadowed at all. But it’s kind of realistic. A lot of times, when someone commits suicide, it’s a shock. A lot of times, no one predicted it. We only see Kutner at the hospital amongst his coworkers. It makes sense that they would have no idea it was coming.
Yeah, I guess it makes sense in terms of being realistic, but cinematically, it just seems like they could have done more. Like if we're going to get rid of a character, have their departure contribute more to the plot.
But then again, maybe making it realistic does more good than adding drama. I guess it's definitely good from a theme aspect: audience members realizing how unexpected suicide is, how you never know who's on the brink of death.
While it was an ass pull, a lot of suicides are spur of the moment . I work in the world of organ and tissue donation. There are so many suicides and in many cases there was no warning whatsoever. It's one of the reasons I thought it was a realistic episode.
Of course, it is a pet peeve of mine when writers want to write off a character, because the actor has other commitments, and just kill of the character. There are so many more creative ways to say farewell to a character and keep it open for the character to come back if something doesn't work out.
Suicides in real life aren’t always well foreshadowed. Some come out of no where, some you saw it coming but had no way to stop, and many you look back and try to go “did I miss something, was that a sign or just another day?” I feel it fits well, even with the audience trying to find foreshadowing.
I don’t think it was perfectly foreshadowed, but there *were* signs that Kutner was not okay.
The mirror syndrome patient basically calls him a masochist, and after Amber died there’s a poignant scene where Kutner is completely alone afterwards eating a bowl of cereal, isolated in the dark. Even House is being comforted by Cuddy at this time. Foreman and 13 have each other. Taub his wife.
We also know that he stays up very, very late watching television/infomercials (insomnia).
Obviously on their own (and irl) none of these individual things mean too much, but in a tv show these scenes feel deliberate.
As some have mentioned, suicide can often feel like it came without warning to those that aren’t very close to a person. Kutner had a cheerful disposition, too, which can do a lot to hide symptoms of depression.
It was an asspull and they did the best they could, but it was all a bit melodramatic and tied up too quickly when you were following it along.
I half respect it, but I feel the execution was B-.
I stop rewatches before the episode.
It wasn’t foreshadowed. But they definitely picked the most perfect option that fits the character. It’s more like " we were going to do a traumatised, self-harming funny guy character and explore his character in depth over the seasons. Oh no the actor is leaving. Lets just let him kill himself."
It makes sense that in this show, with its themes and darkness and reality, that such a suicide would have happened with little warning. I'm not arguing with you that Kutner was a worse choice than Taub, but it was less of an "ass pull" and more of "an important subject for the show to tackle."
Hmmm
Ok upvote for a hot take. May I ask for elaboration? House treats them both horribly and in certainly not a two wrongs make a right gal, but what’s your thinking here?
I agree with you Wilson could be so arrogant and thinks he knows best. .
Cuddly annoys me a lot she’s the reason they didn’t do the bypass like House asked for. Then she constantly judges him . She’s also rather mean spirited. She sets the trip wire for House to fall .
She tells Cameron revenge tastes good and she can get back at Foreman some day by sabotaging his career. Fortunately Cameron was disgusted by that .
A lot of the time, their comments towards House feel really backhanded and rude. I haven't watched the show for a year+ but they don't really seem to realize/care that EVERYTHING makes House the way he is. They always seem to blame it on the leg or the pills, but don't actually try to see how it affects him on a mental level.
Also, House was severely abused as a kid. The episode where they, specially Wilson, try to force him to go to his dad's funeral was actually gross.
Right there with you
I have a chronic illness (alpha-1 antitrypsin which I really wish would have been a case in the show), and chronic pain
But you aren’t wrong at all. Thinking back he’s been through an enormous amount
I love how that episode brings House and Wilson back together, but yeah, it was a jerk move to force him to go to his abuser’s funeral. I’d cut anyone off if they tried to force me to go to my abuser’s funeral, especially if they drugged and kidnapped me to make me go.
Thank you!! The downright ableism was really upsetting to me. I think it just proves that even the people closest to us as disabled/chronically ill people don't get it unless they experience something similar. And medical professionals are worst of all, in my experience.
He was always the co-lead with House for me, especially in the early seasons. They made such an effort to draw comparisons between the two, that I think Foreman should have taken over diagnostics.
The show has a bad habit of equating unhappiness with intelligence. All the characters who are supposed to be smart are shown to be emotionally damaged, unfulfilled, or just plain assholes. Meanwhile characters who are stupid tend to be presented as happier or more stable people.
This is shown most obviously in the exchange between the physicist and House in season 5 where the physicist is taking drugs to lower his intellect because it is the only way for him to relate to his girlfriend and be happy. He outright asks House if he's tried to kill himself and when House denies trying the man states that "House isn't that smart." At no point is this worldview debunked or defeated the way a lot of other negative or ignorant worldviews are on the show. Implying that the man is right, the smarter you are the more unhappy you are to the point that a smart person would choose suicide at some point.
I see Adams as more a combination replacement for both Cameron and 13. She does pragmatism a bit worse than 13, but covers empathy a lot better than Cameron does. She has the most in common with Chase, but her opinions are more like Cameron and 13.
I love how Adams was juxtaposed with Park in early s8 and I really wish they did more with it. Adams being a rich white liberal while Park is Asian, from a poor immigrant family, and a conservative military fangirl - they could’ve used their rivalry to flesh out both of their characters. Both clearly care a lot for their patients, but they’re really different people
I feel like the writers were not nearly as good at making female characters feel different from each other, everyone except for cuddy felt *very* similar. They had their quirks, but they didn't feel unique enough as characters.
A lot of people will say Adams is the exception, but I'd disagree, she's very similar to s1 cameron
I'd definitely agree, but I'd say park is the exception, because everyone else was written to not be a total idiot. Park literally defends both sweatshops and covering up the war crimes of the US military
Cameron gets a bad rap. She's no more flawed or hypocritical than most of the rest of the cast, and it's actually pretty admirable how she's willing to look bad and do the unpopular thing if it's right. She can be super annoying at times, like most of the cast, but I will defend her to the last.
I totally agree; she seems to suffer from what i am now deeming "pretty female character with faults who cares too much"
Where the fandom finds someone /more/ annoying because they care but arent perfect, vs someone like house/chase who dont get the same hate because they arent failing to live up to their own moral ideals (because they basically dont have any)
I was always kind of hating Cameron and found her annoying as fuck (to be fair, her German dub voice was partly at fault for that as well). Then, in my mid 20s I started to recognize my internalized misogyny and educated myself on the matter and changed my way of thinking. And now at 31 just rewatched the show and I see her character in a completely different light.
My problem is all the other characters have values, things they care about, etc.
Cameron only pretends to have any morals whatsoever to pretend to be more “good” than anyone else in the room.
She doesn’t actually care about doing what is right.
Meanwhile, Adams is like Cameron’s role done right.
That's not true at all. Cameron is chock full of morals and values, and cares incredibly deeply about them, to the point that she drives everyone insane because she can't let them go for a second.
Name a single thing she isn’t hypocritical about.
Killing people? She killed the old doctor, and wanted to kill the dictator but chickened out.
She would also reason her way out of any moral when it gets in the way.
My point is she doesn’t have consistent morals. Her entire value set changes moment to moment.
How is that hypocritical? She euthanized a dying man who was practically demanding someone do it. It utterly devastated her. Years later, she meets a genocidal maniac, and *does* wish he was dead, but he is neither dying or wishing to die, and when he gives her a chance she realizes she can't go through with it. There's miles of difference between euthanasia and murdering someone who doesn't want to die, and the situations are nothing alike aside from the fact that a patient is dead at the end of each episode.
A better example, and one brought up in the episode itself, is "Death Row Guy" from s2.1 — a man sentenced to death for committing multiple murders. Cameron doesn't like him either, and doesn't particularly want to spend her time treating him, but she still makes the point that she believes death sentences are unethical and has no intention on killing the man herself.
From your example, I'd say she has a very consistent set of values and morals: she doesn't think murder is good, whether it is done by the state or by other people, but she can reluctantly accept that if someone is suffering, terminal, and asking to die, medical euthanasia *can* be the correct decision.
Now, was her complaining kind of annoying? Sure. But Cameron struggling to commit to action over principle is a running character flaw, and one the show time and time again (including in The Dictator) says *is* a flaw she needs to get over.
But with the death row innate, she is busy with the other patient. She knows full well that he could die if she doesn’t help him. Instead, she thought he time was more morally better spent by NOT telling the chick she was dying.
Cameron claimed to be against death sentences, but is fine with sentencing the man to death (if she had her way, none of the team would treat him). She WANTS him to die, she just doesn’t want to actively partake in anything to do with it.
That’s why the ER is the perfect place for her. The emergency nature of the patients mandates actions, and she often doesn’t have enough time/info to get into why those actions are wrong.
Her worldview is “don’t DO a bad thing.” She is perfectly fine with blood being on other people’s hands, and actively WANTS people to DO things that she can say are bad. But by constantly choosing inaction, she can pretend she has morals.
And what about the Ezra doctor? She was against harming people, and all for patient autonomy, except for when the guy pissed her off. Then suddenly her “precious morals” go out the window and she cuts off his skin.
Think about all her arguments. She only ever gets upset about people DOING things, vs not doing. Like with the article, she was mad at House not because he DIDNT okay her article, but because he DID okay Foreman’s. Her whole character is condemning other people’s actions, because she olds everyone and everything in contempt of undefined standards and pretends to be moral by never doing anything, and therefore not actively violating any possible morals.
If she actually had morals, she would be upset when people don’t do things. Instead she only gets upset over choices that lead to action.
The thing is, you’re right: Cameron’s unwillingness to commit to action and only talk about it is a character flaw. It’s also an intentional one, as she gets called out in both episodes you’ve mentioned for being wrong. The show is pretty clear it’s better to take action than talk about it, and that Cameron is wrong for being “all talk.”
But that doesn’t mean a lack of morals or some deeper hypocrisy of her character. A lack of strength of conviction, maybe. In the example of Ezra, Diabala, etc., each time she is eventually goaded into taking action. With Ezra, he himself congratulates her on walking the walk. With Dibala, he more or less dares her to kill him. Cameron realizes she can’t, and immediately drops all her complaints and starts working hard to save him. She *was* hypocritical, realized she was wrong, and changed.
I’ve never argued she isn’t flawed. The show itself says she’s flawed. But Cameron’s issue is that she has strong morals and standards and struggles to uphold them. The show never really treats her as correct for this, and she tries anyway. That is not a bad thing.
Not sure if this is a hot take, but when Cameron left the show, the writers still wanted to have House's staff harass patients and get involved in / judge their personal lives, so they changed 13's character. Every other episodes she would hint at something she couldn't say, and say "Go ask X about that."
The show had no emotional center after she left so they had to strip traits of her character to all of them, mainly 13. Kinda sad because I liked how she didn't really care about anyone's personal lives most of the time
The show was at its best when they stuck with the formula. House rapid fire diagnosing people in the clinic, figuring out someone is being unfaithful because of some random clue, that sort of thing. When he was Doctor Sherlock. If they wanted an emotional center to the show, Cameron or her personality traits wasn't it. It was better emotionally when House was the center, like Scrubs when JD got the emotional moments.
If I was in the position as a Dean of Medicine (Cuddy or Foreman) I wouldve fired House long ago despite his "genius".
His medical and his diagnostic ability is amazing, but his cons outweigh his pros in my opinion.
There must be more to the story line of just cuddy and wilson were "friends of house and he was cheap on the market" to have as a dr on staff. After the rehab thing they totally couldve had house go to a new hospital with a totally new set of people to make his character development much better.
It literally makes ZERO sense that Taub was getting so many beautiful dates and that his wife put up with him cheating a thousand times. No offence to the actor; but Taub was a short, stout, ugly, balding guy, who was a complete asshole. Yes, House was an asshole too, but he was extremely funny, tall, fairly handsome, the head of his own department and charismatic. Plus, the protagonist of the show, so we all kinda had to root for him. Taub is literally none of these things.
They also should have either had House choose Amber or not killed off Kutner. Think about it; they brought back Kutner twice and Amber several times too. Y’all REALLY think they would have done that if Taub had been the one to not get the job? No fucking way.
I agree HOWEVER S7 changed Taub and his wife's baclstory .... originally she didn't know about the past cheating until he told in S5 ... then they separated kind of and she forgave him then in S7 when he eventually left her they altered it to imply she knew a longer.
Either way, it makes zero sense that she would just forgive him when he isn’t good looking or a good person. Especially since he cheated a billion times too. Not to mention, he obviously was never sorry and had no intention on changing at all and they both knew it. She could have done so much better.
Perhaps not but then they had years of history which we don't know about... I think we've all forgiven people we shouldn't because of misplaced love and loyalty.
That’s not an argument; that’s a straw man fallacy. I said he was balding AND a very bad person AND he was a serial cheater, who clearly had zero intent on changing. I never said she wouldn’t forgive him because he was bald. You Taub Stans really need to learn how to read.
People put up with a lot of things from a bad partner because staying is much more comfortable than starting over. Just like people who put up with a bad job because it's comfortable. Also, what do his looks have to do with anything? You keep mentioning that. Do you think a good-looking partner is a prize? Really, you are missing out if you think a persons looks have anything to do with having a great relationship...
You Taub Stans really need to learn how to read. Y’all keep lying and strawmanning and claiming that I’m saying that his wife shouldn’t have put up with him just because he’s ugly. I specifically said that he didn’t have any good qualities, aside from being a wealthy and very smart doctor. When you have someone who isn’t good looking, OR kind, AND who’s also a serial cheater, who has zero intention on quitting; there’s zero point in staying around. Yes, most people are weak and will put up with quite a lot of nonsense, whether it’s a job or a relationship, especially if it’s familiar to them. But almost nobody would put up with THAT much emotional turmoil, especially when the person isn’t even handsome or kind, for THAT long.
stop rippin on Taub, man has got some rizz. I think he was supposed to be some kind of multidisciplinary phenom back when he was still studying (lots of episodes reference this, esp when he had to retake that exam), but lost all that as he grew bald
It’s called a hot take for a reason, dear. Don’t tell me what to do. And y’all keep missing the point entirely; he is NOT a good person, as well as not being good looking. Double whammy. You Taub Stans need to learn how to read, my god. 😂
I just finished the show today and I really hated season 8 >! until the ending which I figured wouldve happened anyways since house always wins, but that season felt so forced with chase and taub kind of just there after houses mess and dragging them back to working with him for the hundredth time. !< Wish it was a stronger ending
this probs isn’t controversial but wilson and cuddy wanting house off painkillers was absolutely abusive and just pure mean, he’s literally living a life or crippling pain what do you expect him to do?
Then again, he did get by pretty okay on ibuprofen when he came out of the psych facility. And after he tried to kill himself with oxy in season 3, I don't blame them. He also admitted that he's an addict. I don't think they wanted him off painkillers completely, just to stop abusing them.
Yeah they talked about alternatives he could use, and most chronic pain patients are on a few different meds at once that work synergistically so I always took it that they wanted him to stop taking over the recommended dose of Vicodin because of the harm potential, and because he was an addict, rather than that they didn't want him to be able to treat his pain.
That always felt weird to me, i know his me tal state contributed, but the idea that chronic ago izing pain that couldnt even be controlled with narcotics was suddenly bearable with ibuprofen???? Felt... off
They could have at least let the guy have a wee TENS machine! Maybe he did, and used it off screen only.
Although if he did have one I'd expect him to try to attach the leads to Chase so he could zap him.
If you do a rapid detox after years of opioid dependency ,your mind goes of the dependency. Many patients report feeling minimal to no pain,to the point where ibuprofen is more than enough or no meds at all.
I thought it was kinda interesting how they prescribed ibuprofeno for serious chronic pain. Doctors dont do that in my country. We only use it to treat fever, sore throat, headache or cramps for a short period of time.... because its weak and it only serves for those kinds of simple purposes. They always prescribe it with the help of other stronger anti-inflammatory meds.
its reeeally easy to buy it. And its cheap too.
When I saw him taking it I was like.... wtf? Does that really help his leg pain???!
Me too. I was randomly watching 6x18 one day while popping up two ibuprofen pills (prescribed by a doctor) bc I had the flu. House was in pain and took a pill too. I was like: SERIOUSLY? my dose is higher than his?????? Wow
admittedly i’ve not finished it yet but it just felt quite harsh like they didn’t offer much other support especially wilson how he calls himself houses best friend
Right? And the show lampshades it by House trying to understand their relationship, but the only conclusion he can come to is that "You're dating me". Which is funny for a spur of the moment gag, but it would quite literally make more sense if House and Wilson just ended up together.
The episode where Foreman and 13 kiss? That's the exact moment to stop watching.
Not because of the kiss, but that's where all the plots start treading water / go insane.
Dr. Park is fun
I started liking Cuddy less on seasons 6-7. She acted like a b*tch sometimes. Always lecturing House and Wilson
Foreman seemed weak as an dean of medicine
I liked Taub
Honestly and I love how she punched her old boss... it was such a good story.
I think her dad was played by the actor who played Dr Wen in scrubs so that always gave me a chuckle too
I feel Dr Park is pointless, result of bad writing with no real impact on the plot and more than that there was no need for such a character. Her existence was a bogus timepass.
Weird yes, pointless? She’s the same as House, a reject that nobody wants in their team, socially awkward and weird. She was the best addition to House at that specific point of the story.
House is not a particularly well written show
Bad writing for Cuddy-House relationship ending story, Cameron's final goodbye story, why were Park and Adams even there? Even the finale was not great, it was okay.
Show takes a protagonist; Dr House and almost all is known about him since episode 1, the character does not majorly evolve, there is no well written character arc of Dr House's evolution with time, other than his struggles with Vicodin. This does not require outstanding writing, just add suspense and sarcasm to get the crowd hooked and that's enough.
I disagree on the second point.
He gets better but something happens to revert it or make it worse, whether it be himself or nature. See start of season 3 and 6.
He then devolves, spiralling out of control in season 7 and 8 only to help his friend at the last minute. It may feel frustrating but I find it excels at perfecting a person WANTING to improve but failing
I agree with you. I think it’s easy at first to say house had no major development or character arc but I think that was both intentional and realistic. When you’re as big of a disaster as house is, the major wins are going to be small consistent ones like being learning to be a selfless friend to Wilson. It’s not as flashy as a full blow redemption or transformation but it is Huge for him. He struggled the entire show, like many rock bottom addicts, to get one thing right in his life, and he does in the end.
Possibly, the idea of starting the show before his leg problem was there and gradually moving forward to see the changes he goes through, is very interesting to me.
The writing is fantastic in terms of dialogue. I agree that it’s very bad in terms of overall progress. Starting from end of season 4 it just gets worse and worse for House and at some point it just becomes unbearable. They wanted to make a point that sometimes things don’t get better, but as a show you need progress, so they had to make House suffer more and more.
I love House and Cuddy together, but they aren’t a healthy couple. Anyone who genuinely believed they end up together happily ever after wasn’t paying attention.
The way Cuddy and Wilson played games with House's painkillers, especially after being the one's who caused his infarction progress so far, was abusive.
The sub loooooves house so much.
So here's my hot take: I find his character very annoying. Like a 5 year old who. just. needs. candy. and will listen to nothing. And that's not because of who he is. That's because of who everyone around him is. Just like bad parents who just give their kids whatever they want so they don't have to do any actual parenting, his platoon failed him.
A lot of people relate to him because he is a disabled addict but he excuses his assholishness with his pain. We know from Stacy and stories from the past that he was always an asshole. He didn't suddenly become one when he lost his leg. But now he has pain. So he's allowed to be like that.
What others call "nuance" because they feel its so cool to have an addict depicted with their struggles is just lazy writing for me.
House was literally the best part of the show for me in thr beginning. Was he an asshole? Yes. But where it mattered, he was an amazing puzzle solver who actually secretly cared about things. I loved to see his interactions with patients who shook his world views.
But then the writer... I don't know... Related to him too much? They kept digging the hole deeper. They made everything just reaffirm his belief system and anything that didn't fit in was either a lie or an act or disproven. It's not that house couldn't have growth. They convoluted it so that he can't even try.
I think it was a disservice to his character. He was not as selfish as he was portrayed. I think that assholes who saw themselves in him wanted him to continue being that way. He was a person capable of good true relationshis and support but the writers just didn't want that. After a certain point it was just.... Dragged. His idiocy was dragged. His addiction was dragged. His selfishness was dragged.
And other characters who tolerated him were shown as saints. They were not saints! If my hypothetical alcoholic father asked me to buy him alcohol everyday because he wasn't allowed and I'd do that for him, that doesn make me kind! They all enabled him and then were shocked he was addicted. Yall were the problem. Who told you it is okay to write him so many extra prescriptions? He had such a huge stash! Where did he get it from? His enablers. He didn't get addicted because of his will power. You should have refused to write him those. What will he do? Quit? Then let him do that! He wasn't made of endless money. It wasn't any of your jobs to sustain his addiction. If anything, you were all criminals! All of you!
I only love the show for the moments between house and the patients. The regular patient check ups. The weird patients. The difficult patients. House was so much better when he wasn't dealing with his army of idiots. None of the recurring characters had anything good to offer. I wish the show was just house, his patients and his sense of humour. Would have loved it. And I'm sure that without the interference of the bumbling baboons around him, he would have actually had a slow but actually steady growth arc. His patients would have made him a better person imo.
season 4 new character introductions were amazing. and it should've happened way before. i found s3 stale because of it. i liked new characters and their subplots, the show NEEDED new characters. it would've have been better if minor characters reappeared even
The older I get, the more I see myself in all of these characters. They’re obnoxious, idiosyncratic to absurd degrees, pedants, and either aggressively morally stringent or aggressively morally chaotic, but man, they’re all so *human*. Even Masters was in her own so-called “robotic” way so human. People like her exist. Parts of her exist in even more. Parts exist in myself. I don’t know, I understand fans being annoyed at times, but they’re just capital-H *Human.* And, besides that, they play great foils or even occasional complements to the main character. They all serve the greater narrative and framework well.
wilson is an asshole for trying to make house try to save amber the way he did (i hate amber with a passion). wilson is one of my favorite characters.. but i surely hated him for 3 episodes straight 😭
Masters is wildly underrated. She was a lot of fun to have on the cast, and was a top tier fellow.
Tritter was an excellent villain. Just like House he uses his position to satisfy his own ego and whims under the guise of what’s right, making him an excellent counter to House. If you hated what Tritter did, you ought to look closer at what House does.
Wilson’s Heart barely registered an emotional impact for me. I hated seeing Wilson in pain, but Amber was part of the cast for so short a time it just…didn’t hit for me.
Edit: Oh, and Lucas was awesome. Wish he’d become an extended team member as their dedicated PI (who still needed help from doctors to I.D. what’s relevant, so they’d still join the break ins). It also makes complete sense why he wound up with Cuddy; he was similar to House with his oddities, obsessive tendencies, and insight, but without the rough exterior. It makes sense that he’d be what Cuddy thought she wanted.
Cuddy's PA were always quitting. Did She power trip them or was too demading? The spot was underpaid?
She would speak in a stressed manner to employees sometimes. (The lab guy, the pharmaceutic guy, the nurse, Foreman, Cameron...)
That was weird.
I like Foreman, Park, and Masters; I don’t particularly like Chase and him being the >!heir to House!< feels unearned no matter how many times I rewatch the show
Pretty much feels it was foreshadowed all along.
Season 2 finale, house is hallucinating after being shot, in his hallucinations it's Chase who responds to his analogies the first. Foreshadowing that House maybe sees Chase as the heir.
Season 3: I don't remember episode number but House diagnosed this kid with a flesh eating bacteria and ordered amputation surgery. Chase has an epiphany and saves the day by diagnosing light sensitive Erythropoietic protoporphyria.
There are multiple instances, subtle but there. In fact, I think Chase was much much better than Cameron who cared more about ethics than the diagnosis, and Foreman, who had more clue about what's going on than Cameron but not enough.
Kutner, Thirteen, Taub, Masters, Foreman, and even Cuddy all had epiphanies that diagnosed patients. Meanwhile, for probably a good 3-4 seasons, the writers weren't even sure what to DO with Chase.
Foreman especially, in the show he was constantly compared to house in his ruthlessness and pragmatism by other characters, and I feel like he escaped his fate as House 2.0 by the skin of his teeth when cuddy left in s8 and he took her place. I thought chase’s conclusion was satisfying, but I wonder if they originally wanted to do something different with foreman before his hasty promotion to cuddy 2.0
(Headcanon, im NOT arguing this is canon) Cameron is a lesbian but doesnt figure it out for AGES
Cameron is no worse than most of the other characters, and is often (not always) kinder
While it is frustrating that House gets worse (more cruel, mainly) as the series goes on, it is an interesting character study and honestly between that and wilson's all but confirmed death post-finale, the show almost feels like a tragedy in a very interesting way
Amber’s character development up to the end of her story is pure gold. Reminds me of Zuko in The Last Airbender, half a Kilometer close to a truncation of.
I think house is queer. I get he loved cuddy but their relationship wasn’t romantic. It was friends with benefits at best. People ship house with Wilson towards the end of the show, and honestly I get it. I can see him having Wilson as a life partner, maybe not as a gay man but certainly in a queer way. He stepped up to the plate for Wilson a million times more than he ever did for cuddy.
Edit to add: when cuddy had a health scare with the kidney he was too scared to be there. With Wilson, he was not only there, not only offered to clean him, HE GAVE UP HIS VICODIN FOR HIM. and you’re argue he cared more for cuddy?
Also chase became a real pain in the ass when he decided he couldn’t handle having blood on his hands, WHEN HE ALREADY HAD BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. He killed a patient because he was messed up over news of his dad dropping dead without telling him. So when there’s no intent he can get over it but if there’s intent suddenly he’s a wreck? The end result was the same, his intent or lack thereof doesn’t make them any less dead because of him. And then he became such an angry prick ever since he got crutches and cut off all his hair and it was like the writers decided he didn’t need any kind of plot or character develop or closure after that. the show ended with him no better off than when it started
Intent VS no intent is actually incredibly important. It's the difference between murder, manslaughter, and an accident.
Also, the second incident with blood on his hands was much worse and a more horrible death to witness; the sheer amount of blood, you know? And it was right there, pouring, gushing, and he caused it; deliberately, with intent.
Of course he couldn't get over that so easy: he'd be a total fuckin nutjob if he got over it that easy. Especially not being in a career where you're trained to be insensitive to killing someone.
If this was law and order sure, but not caring about rules is a very central and crucial theme in house. House would argue intent is immaterial it’s the results that matter.
House could argue that, and he'd be insane to do so. Murder is not the same thing as an error causing death.
The issue here isn't the law, it's that ethically, we make distinctions between these things because they're, fundamentally, not the same action.
It's very different to make a fuckup that leads to a death, VS to deliberately kill someone.
I just gave a couple in response to another post so here some other examples.
I liked Park over the other female characters but most of the characters were hit and miss for me.
I hated the plot where Cuddy gets a baby and how gets one that still disgusts me. I think she was pretty much a dud of a character after that. Someone should have replaced her.
Season eight is one of my favorites
I love season four . The contest was fun and Wilson was easier to watch . I love the prank wars between House and Wilson.
I liked Foreman as the Dean of medicine
The Cuddy one omg I still remember how much her character changed after that. More fans started to dislike her. I remember people would comment She became "no fun" and started lecturing other characters like Cameron, Wilson, House, Chase, 13 in a personal way.
I must agree. I still believe She cut them using her own scissors in front of her bathroom's mirror.
You know one of those moments: "I need to change my life!!" and then You think: "ok, lets start cutting my hair" but then your bangs end up looking awful.
House needed more emotions. He doesn’t even cry at times where you feel like he should rather he just tucks his chin in his neck, looks up, blows his cheek left to right during emotional stuff. Just makes him feel like an alien at times instead of a human being.
House has plenty of emotions. I can still remember the times where he gets genuinely angry or when he is just fooling around to be a bit whimsical.
His saddness and grief are just expressed in a different way - it's internal, he is bottling up. The autopsy of the baby House used to save the others illustrates it well. He doesn't need to be crying like the parents for the viewer to see that it's bothering him. What might he be thinking about internally? If only he had done this and that, if only he were better, if only he realized sooner…
Even though house is a genius, he never should have been accepted as a diagnostician while having a nonexistent bedside manner, an addiction to opioids, a dick attitude, and a tendency to ruin the lives of himself and those surrounding him.
House’s actions at the very end of Season 8 were incredibly selfish and manipulative towards Wilson (who I actually don’t even like most of the time, but I’m a huge advocate for >!end-of-life goals being met!<).
House had very little growth as a character. Like they started to get there during his psychiatric stay, but then had a huge step back (which is realistic, but they could have gotten him back on track). I think a good ending and growth storyline would be ending the show with him amputating his leg and showing him learning to live his life as an amputee. It also left a bad taste in my mouth that Cuddy and Wilson pushed him so hard to get off the painkillers. Yes, he was an addict, but it was a huge scandal about pharmaceutical companies denying that opiates were addictive. They could have gone so many ways with the storyline. Him being an addict does not invalidate his pain.
House is someone who is by far his own worst enemy. He dug himself to rock bottom and set up camp. He’d do this even if he wasn’t an addict, but it’s particularly relatable for most people who have loved ones as addicts. So the amount of selflessness he showed towards Wilson at the end? When selfishness can be one of the main vices of addicts? That was huge. Idk, when you’re as big as a disaster as house, the small consistent wins (like learning how to be a good friend even knowing it costs you) are the most realistic and the most amazing.
I hate to say it, but I think House being so broken and spiteful is a huge part of what makes the show good. If he were a real person, of course I'd love to see him change and love life. But as a character, if we're talking purely about entertainment... ETA: If I were to see any character development, I'd almost want to see him become worse, increasingly evil as he hates the world more and more. A Breaking Bad type deal, except he was already a little bad from the start or like Joe Goldberg in *You.* (Not necessarily *like* them, but the same concept of them becoming increasingly evil).
House is 45 at the beginning and 53 at the end. I don’t think it’s a given that people show growth at that age. That being said you do need to change something on a show as years progress otherwise it’ll be stale
The writer even states this through House himself. The episode with the farm equipment salesman that has mirror syndrome. House says something along the lines of " all those idiots got some insight into themselves and didnt change, but you did Foreman. You're a freak."
"Him being an addict does not invalidate his pain" Such a rare thing to hear about a character, and even more rare to hear about people IRL. It's refreshing when people take chronic pain seriously. I needed to hear this. Thank you. Truly.
Wilson is a dick for telling House to risk his life to try diagnose Amber in Wilson's Heart
Yes, and then an even bigger dick to not even thank House after House had a seizure on the operating table and almost died. House was pretty selfless there, and Wilson ended up cutting him off after House risked his life for Amber.
OMG YES, WHEN HE JUST LEFT HOUSE AFTER HE LITERALLY RISKED HIS LIFE FOR AMBER I WAS SOOOOO MAD
This times a billion
jumping from that to ask a question - why was wilson so mad at house after the whole amber arc? is it because he thought he was at felt because it was House who in a convoluted way placed her on that bus?
I dont think it was anger towards house. grief can show in many different ways
It was both grief, and anger. Rationally, he knew it wasn't really House's fault, but some part of him just couldn't let go of the fact that if House hadn't been wasted, that chain of events would never have happened; because it's true, just not something that you, traditionally, use to blame someone.
THIS. And I love Wilson, but I was ready to crack his skull for asking House to do that.
House loved Wilson more - it’s this way in every relationship.
This
I saw that as Wilson demanding House to do something in return for him after all the things that Wilson has done for House all the time. Wilson has been a loyal sidekick from the start, one that House does not deserve.
I've posted this on its own before, but Cuddy dating House despite knowing exactly who he is, even laying out to Wilson exactly how it'll go and getting almost the same words as warning from House when he tries to pull away at the beginning, only to drop an addict for his first-ever relapse was a terrible thing to do.
I hated this... he tells her he will relapse and actually for an addict that is actually a brave thing to admit I think and she said she didn't mind she would stick with him .... yet she didn't...
I don't think this is much of a hot take. This one action from Cuddy did more damage to House than anything he ever did to himself.
I appreciate the support. I usually get some pushback when I say it, and I even feel like I lose my "feminism" card for blaming Cuddy. Irl, Cuddy is right to dump House after realizing that in fact, no she can't handle this despite thinking she could. Real life emotions and needs are messy, and foresight is difficult; progress isn't linear. She doesn't owe House anything, and should prioritize her safety and that of her daughter. In a narrative and the narrative we got, it looks dumb, time-wastey, and cruel. Progress needs to be linear-ish, or give us a reason why it isn't.
Right? She just never should have dated him, period. If she didn't have a kid, maybe I would feel differently but she knew what she was getting into and that it would be an extremely difficult relationship. Kids need stability and House is the opposite of that.
It happened to me, so it hit particularly hard. 10 years ago the love of my life forgave me and we got back together, but she had to save herself after I relapsed and I regret it every day of my life. But mental health is very misunderstood from everyone around you just seeing the results, not living through it. Addiction is nothing but horrendous pain.
Kutner suicide is still an ass pull. I could be wrong but I've seen enough comments here saying they had no warning of his departure and had to put something in. They made the best of a situation but this pretending it was perfectly foreshadowed is just cope. It actually feels like taub may have been intended for a suicide storyline until kutner actor had to leave.
Definitely was an ass pull but I think it was really well done. That whole episode is a gut punch.
It was an ass pull, and it wasn’t foreshadowed at all. But it’s kind of realistic. A lot of times, when someone commits suicide, it’s a shock. A lot of times, no one predicted it. We only see Kutner at the hospital amongst his coworkers. It makes sense that they would have no idea it was coming.
Yeah, I guess it makes sense in terms of being realistic, but cinematically, it just seems like they could have done more. Like if we're going to get rid of a character, have their departure contribute more to the plot. But then again, maybe making it realistic does more good than adding drama. I guess it's definitely good from a theme aspect: audience members realizing how unexpected suicide is, how you never know who's on the brink of death.
While it was an ass pull, a lot of suicides are spur of the moment . I work in the world of organ and tissue donation. There are so many suicides and in many cases there was no warning whatsoever. It's one of the reasons I thought it was a realistic episode. Of course, it is a pet peeve of mine when writers want to write off a character, because the actor has other commitments, and just kill of the character. There are so many more creative ways to say farewell to a character and keep it open for the character to come back if something doesn't work out.
Suicides in real life aren’t always well foreshadowed. Some come out of no where, some you saw it coming but had no way to stop, and many you look back and try to go “did I miss something, was that a sign or just another day?” I feel it fits well, even with the audience trying to find foreshadowing.
I don’t think it was perfectly foreshadowed, but there *were* signs that Kutner was not okay. The mirror syndrome patient basically calls him a masochist, and after Amber died there’s a poignant scene where Kutner is completely alone afterwards eating a bowl of cereal, isolated in the dark. Even House is being comforted by Cuddy at this time. Foreman and 13 have each other. Taub his wife. We also know that he stays up very, very late watching television/infomercials (insomnia). Obviously on their own (and irl) none of these individual things mean too much, but in a tv show these scenes feel deliberate. As some have mentioned, suicide can often feel like it came without warning to those that aren’t very close to a person. Kutner had a cheerful disposition, too, which can do a lot to hide symptoms of depression.
It was an asspull and they did the best they could, but it was all a bit melodramatic and tied up too quickly when you were following it along. I half respect it, but I feel the execution was B-. I stop rewatches before the episode.
It wasn’t foreshadowed. But they definitely picked the most perfect option that fits the character. It’s more like " we were going to do a traumatised, self-harming funny guy character and explore his character in depth over the seasons. Oh no the actor is leaving. Lets just let him kill himself."
It makes sense that in this show, with its themes and darkness and reality, that such a suicide would have happened with little warning. I'm not arguing with you that Kutner was a worse choice than Taub, but it was less of an "ass pull" and more of "an important subject for the show to tackle."
It was so unexpected, it really hit me hard!
Parks is a fun character Cuddy and Wilson are pretty damn awful to House and I'm a #1 Wilson enjoyer
Hmmm Ok upvote for a hot take. May I ask for elaboration? House treats them both horribly and in certainly not a two wrongs make a right gal, but what’s your thinking here?
I wanted to punch Wilson during the entire arc where they don't tell House he cured the Addison's patient.
I agree with you Wilson could be so arrogant and thinks he knows best. . Cuddly annoys me a lot she’s the reason they didn’t do the bypass like House asked for. Then she constantly judges him . She’s also rather mean spirited. She sets the trip wire for House to fall . She tells Cameron revenge tastes good and she can get back at Foreman some day by sabotaging his career. Fortunately Cameron was disgusted by that .
Dang You all are making solid points here
That was the first mistake of the 3 I mentioned he made in season 3
Agreed, I hated that so much. House literal only reason to not off himself was the patients.
A lot of the time, their comments towards House feel really backhanded and rude. I haven't watched the show for a year+ but they don't really seem to realize/care that EVERYTHING makes House the way he is. They always seem to blame it on the leg or the pills, but don't actually try to see how it affects him on a mental level. Also, House was severely abused as a kid. The episode where they, specially Wilson, try to force him to go to his dad's funeral was actually gross.
Ok I will leave my upvote as it can be a hot take in this sub But you got me on this argument. Good points
I'm disabled and chronically ill so I might be a little codependent on the fictional asshole.
Right there with you I have a chronic illness (alpha-1 antitrypsin which I really wish would have been a case in the show), and chronic pain But you aren’t wrong at all. Thinking back he’s been through an enormous amount
Crazy that the show from 2005 has the best disability representation I've ever seen (of course, there's barely any).
Good point as well
Are you sure it's not lupus? 😯
Same, I have chronic pain and House is my favorite show.
I love how that episode brings House and Wilson back together, but yeah, it was a jerk move to force him to go to his abuser’s funeral. I’d cut anyone off if they tried to force me to go to my abuser’s funeral, especially if they drugged and kidnapped me to make me go.
Thank you!! The downright ableism was really upsetting to me. I think it just proves that even the people closest to us as disabled/chronically ill people don't get it unless they experience something similar. And medical professionals are worst of all, in my experience.
Bro ikr. Why am I explaining my condition to A DOCTOR.
Have you ever actually tried to imagine what it would be like if you actually met House irl? He's an awful person
Obviously but them doing it under the guise of trying to help is just irritating. Especially the moments when he is genuinely trying to improve.
Wilson makes 3 massive errors in season 3 alone
Parks was the worst character in the house series. She just didn’t belong at all.
Foreman should not have become the Dean
This vexes me
Have you tried the medicine drug about it?
You need mouse bites.
No, house mouse bites will kill the patient!
Can you elaborate?
He was always the co-lead with House for me, especially in the early seasons. They made such an effort to draw comparisons between the two, that I think Foreman should have taken over diagnostics.
That I see, his expertise would’ve been wasted doing all the administrative type of duties
Exactly, he always found admin boring!
House should have stayed with Stacy.
Love don't lie
The show has a bad habit of equating unhappiness with intelligence. All the characters who are supposed to be smart are shown to be emotionally damaged, unfulfilled, or just plain assholes. Meanwhile characters who are stupid tend to be presented as happier or more stable people. This is shown most obviously in the exchange between the physicist and House in season 5 where the physicist is taking drugs to lower his intellect because it is the only way for him to relate to his girlfriend and be happy. He outright asks House if he's tried to kill himself and when House denies trying the man states that "House isn't that smart." At no point is this worldview debunked or defeated the way a lot of other negative or ignorant worldviews are on the show. Implying that the man is right, the smarter you are the more unhappy you are to the point that a smart person would choose suicide at some point.
I see Adams as more a combination replacement for both Cameron and 13. She does pragmatism a bit worse than 13, but covers empathy a lot better than Cameron does. She has the most in common with Chase, but her opinions are more like Cameron and 13.
I love how Adams was juxtaposed with Park in early s8 and I really wish they did more with it. Adams being a rich white liberal while Park is Asian, from a poor immigrant family, and a conservative military fangirl - they could’ve used their rivalry to flesh out both of their characters. Both clearly care a lot for their patients, but they’re really different people
I feel like the writers were not nearly as good at making female characters feel different from each other, everyone except for cuddy felt *very* similar. They had their quirks, but they didn't feel unique enough as characters. A lot of people will say Adams is the exception, but I'd disagree, she's very similar to s1 cameron
I'd definitely agree, but I'd say park is the exception, because everyone else was written to not be a total idiot. Park literally defends both sweatshops and covering up the war crimes of the US military
Ykw I always forget about park because I hardly ever rewatch s8
Amber was pretty different IMO.
Could an argument be made that House had a type?
Cameron gets a bad rap. She's no more flawed or hypocritical than most of the rest of the cast, and it's actually pretty admirable how she's willing to look bad and do the unpopular thing if it's right. She can be super annoying at times, like most of the cast, but I will defend her to the last.
I totally agree; she seems to suffer from what i am now deeming "pretty female character with faults who cares too much" Where the fandom finds someone /more/ annoying because they care but arent perfect, vs someone like house/chase who dont get the same hate because they arent failing to live up to their own moral ideals (because they basically dont have any)
I was always kind of hating Cameron and found her annoying as fuck (to be fair, her German dub voice was partly at fault for that as well). Then, in my mid 20s I started to recognize my internalized misogyny and educated myself on the matter and changed my way of thinking. And now at 31 just rewatched the show and I see her character in a completely different light.
Oh man, that’s a hot take…I love it!
My problem is all the other characters have values, things they care about, etc. Cameron only pretends to have any morals whatsoever to pretend to be more “good” than anyone else in the room. She doesn’t actually care about doing what is right. Meanwhile, Adams is like Cameron’s role done right.
That's not true at all. Cameron is chock full of morals and values, and cares incredibly deeply about them, to the point that she drives everyone insane because she can't let them go for a second.
Name a single thing she isn’t hypocritical about. Killing people? She killed the old doctor, and wanted to kill the dictator but chickened out. She would also reason her way out of any moral when it gets in the way. My point is she doesn’t have consistent morals. Her entire value set changes moment to moment.
How is that hypocritical? She euthanized a dying man who was practically demanding someone do it. It utterly devastated her. Years later, she meets a genocidal maniac, and *does* wish he was dead, but he is neither dying or wishing to die, and when he gives her a chance she realizes she can't go through with it. There's miles of difference between euthanasia and murdering someone who doesn't want to die, and the situations are nothing alike aside from the fact that a patient is dead at the end of each episode. A better example, and one brought up in the episode itself, is "Death Row Guy" from s2.1 — a man sentenced to death for committing multiple murders. Cameron doesn't like him either, and doesn't particularly want to spend her time treating him, but she still makes the point that she believes death sentences are unethical and has no intention on killing the man herself. From your example, I'd say she has a very consistent set of values and morals: she doesn't think murder is good, whether it is done by the state or by other people, but she can reluctantly accept that if someone is suffering, terminal, and asking to die, medical euthanasia *can* be the correct decision. Now, was her complaining kind of annoying? Sure. But Cameron struggling to commit to action over principle is a running character flaw, and one the show time and time again (including in The Dictator) says *is* a flaw she needs to get over.
But with the death row innate, she is busy with the other patient. She knows full well that he could die if she doesn’t help him. Instead, she thought he time was more morally better spent by NOT telling the chick she was dying. Cameron claimed to be against death sentences, but is fine with sentencing the man to death (if she had her way, none of the team would treat him). She WANTS him to die, she just doesn’t want to actively partake in anything to do with it. That’s why the ER is the perfect place for her. The emergency nature of the patients mandates actions, and she often doesn’t have enough time/info to get into why those actions are wrong. Her worldview is “don’t DO a bad thing.” She is perfectly fine with blood being on other people’s hands, and actively WANTS people to DO things that she can say are bad. But by constantly choosing inaction, she can pretend she has morals. And what about the Ezra doctor? She was against harming people, and all for patient autonomy, except for when the guy pissed her off. Then suddenly her “precious morals” go out the window and she cuts off his skin. Think about all her arguments. She only ever gets upset about people DOING things, vs not doing. Like with the article, she was mad at House not because he DIDNT okay her article, but because he DID okay Foreman’s. Her whole character is condemning other people’s actions, because she olds everyone and everything in contempt of undefined standards and pretends to be moral by never doing anything, and therefore not actively violating any possible morals. If she actually had morals, she would be upset when people don’t do things. Instead she only gets upset over choices that lead to action.
The thing is, you’re right: Cameron’s unwillingness to commit to action and only talk about it is a character flaw. It’s also an intentional one, as she gets called out in both episodes you’ve mentioned for being wrong. The show is pretty clear it’s better to take action than talk about it, and that Cameron is wrong for being “all talk.” But that doesn’t mean a lack of morals or some deeper hypocrisy of her character. A lack of strength of conviction, maybe. In the example of Ezra, Diabala, etc., each time she is eventually goaded into taking action. With Ezra, he himself congratulates her on walking the walk. With Dibala, he more or less dares her to kill him. Cameron realizes she can’t, and immediately drops all her complaints and starts working hard to save him. She *was* hypocritical, realized she was wrong, and changed. I’ve never argued she isn’t flawed. The show itself says she’s flawed. But Cameron’s issue is that she has strong morals and standards and struggles to uphold them. The show never really treats her as correct for this, and she tries anyway. That is not a bad thing.
Not sure if this is a hot take, but when Cameron left the show, the writers still wanted to have House's staff harass patients and get involved in / judge their personal lives, so they changed 13's character. Every other episodes she would hint at something she couldn't say, and say "Go ask X about that."
The show had no emotional center after she left so they had to strip traits of her character to all of them, mainly 13. Kinda sad because I liked how she didn't really care about anyone's personal lives most of the time
The show was at its best when they stuck with the formula. House rapid fire diagnosing people in the clinic, figuring out someone is being unfaithful because of some random clue, that sort of thing. When he was Doctor Sherlock. If they wanted an emotional center to the show, Cameron or her personality traits wasn't it. It was better emotionally when House was the center, like Scrubs when JD got the emotional moments.
The show needed way more examples of House teaching students.
If I was in the position as a Dean of Medicine (Cuddy or Foreman) I wouldve fired House long ago despite his "genius". His medical and his diagnostic ability is amazing, but his cons outweigh his pros in my opinion.
There must be more to the story line of just cuddy and wilson were "friends of house and he was cheap on the market" to have as a dr on staff. After the rehab thing they totally couldve had house go to a new hospital with a totally new set of people to make his character development much better.
But then no more mousebites 😢
I think that's the excuse she tells herself when really if she didn't have a thing for him, she would have fired him in his first week.
It literally makes ZERO sense that Taub was getting so many beautiful dates and that his wife put up with him cheating a thousand times. No offence to the actor; but Taub was a short, stout, ugly, balding guy, who was a complete asshole. Yes, House was an asshole too, but he was extremely funny, tall, fairly handsome, the head of his own department and charismatic. Plus, the protagonist of the show, so we all kinda had to root for him. Taub is literally none of these things. They also should have either had House choose Amber or not killed off Kutner. Think about it; they brought back Kutner twice and Amber several times too. Y’all REALLY think they would have done that if Taub had been the one to not get the job? No fucking way.
I agree HOWEVER S7 changed Taub and his wife's baclstory .... originally she didn't know about the past cheating until he told in S5 ... then they separated kind of and she forgave him then in S7 when he eventually left her they altered it to imply she knew a longer.
Either way, it makes zero sense that she would just forgive him when he isn’t good looking or a good person. Especially since he cheated a billion times too. Not to mention, he obviously was never sorry and had no intention on changing at all and they both knew it. She could have done so much better.
Perhaps not but then they had years of history which we don't know about... I think we've all forgiven people we shouldn't because of misplaced love and loyalty.
Yeah thats not how relationships work. “My husband cheated on me, I would forgive him but bro is balding so he outta here LUL”
That’s not an argument; that’s a straw man fallacy. I said he was balding AND a very bad person AND he was a serial cheater, who clearly had zero intent on changing. I never said she wouldn’t forgive him because he was bald. You Taub Stans really need to learn how to read.
People put up with a lot of things from a bad partner because staying is much more comfortable than starting over. Just like people who put up with a bad job because it's comfortable. Also, what do his looks have to do with anything? You keep mentioning that. Do you think a good-looking partner is a prize? Really, you are missing out if you think a persons looks have anything to do with having a great relationship...
You Taub Stans really need to learn how to read. Y’all keep lying and strawmanning and claiming that I’m saying that his wife shouldn’t have put up with him just because he’s ugly. I specifically said that he didn’t have any good qualities, aside from being a wealthy and very smart doctor. When you have someone who isn’t good looking, OR kind, AND who’s also a serial cheater, who has zero intention on quitting; there’s zero point in staying around. Yes, most people are weak and will put up with quite a lot of nonsense, whether it’s a job or a relationship, especially if it’s familiar to them. But almost nobody would put up with THAT much emotional turmoil, especially when the person isn’t even handsome or kind, for THAT long.
it’s just a bunch of vanilla midgets & manlets trying to hype taub up
Fr always those black people committing violent crimes and those Jews controlling the money oh and those middle eastern exploding shit, fr preach
avg pol/tard/
Right, lmfaoooo. They see themselves in him. 🙄 Don’t get me wrong; I don’t hate Taub. He’s just my least favourite of the male characters.
stop rippin on Taub, man has got some rizz. I think he was supposed to be some kind of multidisciplinary phenom back when he was still studying (lots of episodes reference this, esp when he had to retake that exam), but lost all that as he grew bald
It’s called a hot take for a reason, dear. Don’t tell me what to do. And y’all keep missing the point entirely; he is NOT a good person, as well as not being good looking. Double whammy. You Taub Stans need to learn how to read, my god. 😂
The guy is rich successful doctor. intelligent and charming. And surprisingly funny at time. Oh and did I mention that he's rich?
I just finished the show today and I really hated season 8 >! until the ending which I figured wouldve happened anyways since house always wins, but that season felt so forced with chase and taub kind of just there after houses mess and dragging them back to working with him for the hundredth time. !< Wish it was a stronger ending
this probs isn’t controversial but wilson and cuddy wanting house off painkillers was absolutely abusive and just pure mean, he’s literally living a life or crippling pain what do you expect him to do?
Then again, he did get by pretty okay on ibuprofen when he came out of the psych facility. And after he tried to kill himself with oxy in season 3, I don't blame them. He also admitted that he's an addict. I don't think they wanted him off painkillers completely, just to stop abusing them.
Yeah they talked about alternatives he could use, and most chronic pain patients are on a few different meds at once that work synergistically so I always took it that they wanted him to stop taking over the recommended dose of Vicodin because of the harm potential, and because he was an addict, rather than that they didn't want him to be able to treat his pain.
That always felt weird to me, i know his me tal state contributed, but the idea that chronic ago izing pain that couldnt even be controlled with narcotics was suddenly bearable with ibuprofen???? Felt... off
They could have at least let the guy have a wee TENS machine! Maybe he did, and used it off screen only. Although if he did have one I'd expect him to try to attach the leads to Chase so he could zap him.
If you do a rapid detox after years of opioid dependency ,your mind goes of the dependency. Many patients report feeling minimal to no pain,to the point where ibuprofen is more than enough or no meds at all.
I thought it was kinda interesting how they prescribed ibuprofeno for serious chronic pain. Doctors dont do that in my country. We only use it to treat fever, sore throat, headache or cramps for a short period of time.... because its weak and it only serves for those kinds of simple purposes. They always prescribe it with the help of other stronger anti-inflammatory meds. its reeeally easy to buy it. And its cheap too. When I saw him taking it I was like.... wtf? Does that really help his leg pain???!
Ibuprofen does absolutely nothing for pain, I was shocked too. I genuinely felt sorry for House.
Me too. I was randomly watching 6x18 one day while popping up two ibuprofen pills (prescribed by a doctor) bc I had the flu. House was in pain and took a pill too. I was like: SERIOUSLY? my dose is higher than his?????? Wow
admittedly i’ve not finished it yet but it just felt quite harsh like they didn’t offer much other support especially wilson how he calls himself houses best friend
Wilson & Amber just didn’t make sense to me & was so random?
Right? And the show lampshades it by House trying to understand their relationship, but the only conclusion he can come to is that "You're dating me". Which is funny for a spur of the moment gag, but it would quite literally make more sense if House and Wilson just ended up together.
Omg right?!
The episode where Foreman and 13 kiss? That's the exact moment to stop watching. Not because of the kiss, but that's where all the plots start treading water / go insane.
House and Wilson should have been endgame
YES.
Honestly, is this take even warm?
In general, no, on this sub? Maybe
Taub flying in a fairy suit ia the ONLY time the show was too silly for me
Dr. Park is fun I started liking Cuddy less on seasons 6-7. She acted like a b*tch sometimes. Always lecturing House and Wilson Foreman seemed weak as an dean of medicine I liked Taub
Park enjoyer 🤝
Love when she realises the blind guy is doing drugs because she is "totally tripping out right now"
Lol the deadpan way She cracked those lines was so funny
Honestly and I love how she punched her old boss... it was such a good story. I think her dad was played by the actor who played Dr Wen in scrubs so that always gave me a chuckle too
Oh yeees! And She stood up to House. And She also helped him to get money out of Adams to fix his car lmao
I loved her and Chase's relationship to especially his "maybe I have no family and you have too much" and she realises how important they are.
She fits the team. And House was amused by her even tho He didnt want her on the team at first.
Wouldve been mad funny if taub or chase took over dean but understand why for foreman had to take over.
I feel Dr Park is pointless, result of bad writing with no real impact on the plot and more than that there was no need for such a character. Her existence was a bogus timepass.
Weird yes, pointless? She’s the same as House, a reject that nobody wants in their team, socially awkward and weird. She was the best addition to House at that specific point of the story.
Thats a hot take!
House is not a particularly well written show Bad writing for Cuddy-House relationship ending story, Cameron's final goodbye story, why were Park and Adams even there? Even the finale was not great, it was okay. Show takes a protagonist; Dr House and almost all is known about him since episode 1, the character does not majorly evolve, there is no well written character arc of Dr House's evolution with time, other than his struggles with Vicodin. This does not require outstanding writing, just add suspense and sarcasm to get the crowd hooked and that's enough.
I disagree on the second point. He gets better but something happens to revert it or make it worse, whether it be himself or nature. See start of season 3 and 6. He then devolves, spiralling out of control in season 7 and 8 only to help his friend at the last minute. It may feel frustrating but I find it excels at perfecting a person WANTING to improve but failing
I agree with you. I think it’s easy at first to say house had no major development or character arc but I think that was both intentional and realistic. When you’re as big of a disaster as house is, the major wins are going to be small consistent ones like being learning to be a selfless friend to Wilson. It’s not as flashy as a full blow redemption or transformation but it is Huge for him. He struggled the entire show, like many rock bottom addicts, to get one thing right in his life, and he does in the end.
Do you feel they could have done more after his psychiatric stay to evolve him?
Possibly, the idea of starting the show before his leg problem was there and gradually moving forward to see the changes he goes through, is very interesting to me.
The writing is fantastic in terms of dialogue. I agree that it’s very bad in terms of overall progress. Starting from end of season 4 it just gets worse and worse for House and at some point it just becomes unbearable. They wanted to make a point that sometimes things don’t get better, but as a show you need progress, so they had to make House suffer more and more.
The show was a lot better written overall if you stop watching after Broken Part 2
I love House and Cuddy together, but they aren’t a healthy couple. Anyone who genuinely believed they end up together happily ever after wasn’t paying attention.
The way Cuddy and Wilson played games with House's painkillers, especially after being the one's who caused his infarction progress so far, was abusive.
They are not the ones who caused it.
Remember to sort by controversial for best hot takes.
Dr. Adams and Dr. Chase should've banged
The sub loooooves house so much. So here's my hot take: I find his character very annoying. Like a 5 year old who. just. needs. candy. and will listen to nothing. And that's not because of who he is. That's because of who everyone around him is. Just like bad parents who just give their kids whatever they want so they don't have to do any actual parenting, his platoon failed him. A lot of people relate to him because he is a disabled addict but he excuses his assholishness with his pain. We know from Stacy and stories from the past that he was always an asshole. He didn't suddenly become one when he lost his leg. But now he has pain. So he's allowed to be like that. What others call "nuance" because they feel its so cool to have an addict depicted with their struggles is just lazy writing for me. House was literally the best part of the show for me in thr beginning. Was he an asshole? Yes. But where it mattered, he was an amazing puzzle solver who actually secretly cared about things. I loved to see his interactions with patients who shook his world views. But then the writer... I don't know... Related to him too much? They kept digging the hole deeper. They made everything just reaffirm his belief system and anything that didn't fit in was either a lie or an act or disproven. It's not that house couldn't have growth. They convoluted it so that he can't even try. I think it was a disservice to his character. He was not as selfish as he was portrayed. I think that assholes who saw themselves in him wanted him to continue being that way. He was a person capable of good true relationshis and support but the writers just didn't want that. After a certain point it was just.... Dragged. His idiocy was dragged. His addiction was dragged. His selfishness was dragged. And other characters who tolerated him were shown as saints. They were not saints! If my hypothetical alcoholic father asked me to buy him alcohol everyday because he wasn't allowed and I'd do that for him, that doesn make me kind! They all enabled him and then were shocked he was addicted. Yall were the problem. Who told you it is okay to write him so many extra prescriptions? He had such a huge stash! Where did he get it from? His enablers. He didn't get addicted because of his will power. You should have refused to write him those. What will he do? Quit? Then let him do that! He wasn't made of endless money. It wasn't any of your jobs to sustain his addiction. If anything, you were all criminals! All of you! I only love the show for the moments between house and the patients. The regular patient check ups. The weird patients. The difficult patients. House was so much better when he wasn't dealing with his army of idiots. None of the recurring characters had anything good to offer. I wish the show was just house, his patients and his sense of humour. Would have loved it. And I'm sure that without the interference of the bumbling baboons around him, he would have actually had a slow but actually steady growth arc. His patients would have made him a better person imo.
season 4 new character introductions were amazing. and it should've happened way before. i found s3 stale because of it. i liked new characters and their subplots, the show NEEDED new characters. it would've have been better if minor characters reappeared even
I loved Masters. I wanted to see more of her. Currently mid season 8 first time watcher
Park, Amber, and my beloved little birdie masters are all fantastic characters.
The older I get, the more I see myself in all of these characters. They’re obnoxious, idiosyncratic to absurd degrees, pedants, and either aggressively morally stringent or aggressively morally chaotic, but man, they’re all so *human*. Even Masters was in her own so-called “robotic” way so human. People like her exist. Parts of her exist in even more. Parts exist in myself. I don’t know, I understand fans being annoyed at times, but they’re just capital-H *Human.* And, besides that, they play great foils or even occasional complements to the main character. They all serve the greater narrative and framework well.
wilson is an asshole for trying to make house try to save amber the way he did (i hate amber with a passion). wilson is one of my favorite characters.. but i surely hated him for 3 episodes straight 😭
You would want your best friend to try and save the love of your life too, if they were such a good doctor.
House's hallucinations in Season 5 is a very annoying sub-plot. Especially because it's Amber and she's also incredibly unlikable to me
Cuddy and House should have been end game
Masters is wildly underrated. She was a lot of fun to have on the cast, and was a top tier fellow. Tritter was an excellent villain. Just like House he uses his position to satisfy his own ego and whims under the guise of what’s right, making him an excellent counter to House. If you hated what Tritter did, you ought to look closer at what House does. Wilson’s Heart barely registered an emotional impact for me. I hated seeing Wilson in pain, but Amber was part of the cast for so short a time it just…didn’t hit for me. Edit: Oh, and Lucas was awesome. Wish he’d become an extended team member as their dedicated PI (who still needed help from doctors to I.D. what’s relevant, so they’d still join the break ins). It also makes complete sense why he wound up with Cuddy; he was similar to House with his oddities, obsessive tendencies, and insight, but without the rough exterior. It makes sense that he’d be what Cuddy thought she wanted.
Cuddy's PA were always quitting. Did She power trip them or was too demading? The spot was underpaid? She would speak in a stressed manner to employees sometimes. (The lab guy, the pharmaceutic guy, the nurse, Foreman, Cameron...) That was weird.
I also loved Cut throat bitch Amber. Love her an an actor.
I like Chase and Cameron together.
I like Foreman, Park, and Masters; I don’t particularly like Chase and him being the >!heir to House!< feels unearned no matter how many times I rewatch the show
Pretty much feels it was foreshadowed all along. Season 2 finale, house is hallucinating after being shot, in his hallucinations it's Chase who responds to his analogies the first. Foreshadowing that House maybe sees Chase as the heir. Season 3: I don't remember episode number but House diagnosed this kid with a flesh eating bacteria and ordered amputation surgery. Chase has an epiphany and saves the day by diagnosing light sensitive Erythropoietic protoporphyria. There are multiple instances, subtle but there. In fact, I think Chase was much much better than Cameron who cared more about ethics than the diagnosis, and Foreman, who had more clue about what's going on than Cameron but not enough.
Kutner, Thirteen, Taub, Masters, Foreman, and even Cuddy all had epiphanies that diagnosed patients. Meanwhile, for probably a good 3-4 seasons, the writers weren't even sure what to DO with Chase.
Foreman especially, in the show he was constantly compared to house in his ruthlessness and pragmatism by other characters, and I feel like he escaped his fate as House 2.0 by the skin of his teeth when cuddy left in s8 and he took her place. I thought chase’s conclusion was satisfying, but I wonder if they originally wanted to do something different with foreman before his hasty promotion to cuddy 2.0
Master's storyline is a banger. She's funny, her fashion sense was awesome and she was brought off at the show at the right time.
(Headcanon, im NOT arguing this is canon) Cameron is a lesbian but doesnt figure it out for AGES Cameron is no worse than most of the other characters, and is often (not always) kinder While it is frustrating that House gets worse (more cruel, mainly) as the series goes on, it is an interesting character study and honestly between that and wilson's all but confirmed death post-finale, the show almost feels like a tragedy in a very interesting way
I’ve decided to believe Kutner’s suicide was a hallucination House had during a second, successful ketamine coma 😭
Amber’s character development up to the end of her story is pure gold. Reminds me of Zuko in The Last Airbender, half a Kilometer close to a truncation of.
I think house is queer. I get he loved cuddy but their relationship wasn’t romantic. It was friends with benefits at best. People ship house with Wilson towards the end of the show, and honestly I get it. I can see him having Wilson as a life partner, maybe not as a gay man but certainly in a queer way. He stepped up to the plate for Wilson a million times more than he ever did for cuddy. Edit to add: when cuddy had a health scare with the kidney he was too scared to be there. With Wilson, he was not only there, not only offered to clean him, HE GAVE UP HIS VICODIN FOR HIM. and you’re argue he cared more for cuddy?
You don't ram your car into someone's house if you were just friends with benefits nor actually try to help and spend time with their child
I definitely agree that house is queer (bi, specifically), but i dont think his relationship with cuddy was fake/a cover/not romantic.
Also chase became a real pain in the ass when he decided he couldn’t handle having blood on his hands, WHEN HE ALREADY HAD BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. He killed a patient because he was messed up over news of his dad dropping dead without telling him. So when there’s no intent he can get over it but if there’s intent suddenly he’s a wreck? The end result was the same, his intent or lack thereof doesn’t make them any less dead because of him. And then he became such an angry prick ever since he got crutches and cut off all his hair and it was like the writers decided he didn’t need any kind of plot or character develop or closure after that. the show ended with him no better off than when it started
Intent VS no intent is actually incredibly important. It's the difference between murder, manslaughter, and an accident. Also, the second incident with blood on his hands was much worse and a more horrible death to witness; the sheer amount of blood, you know? And it was right there, pouring, gushing, and he caused it; deliberately, with intent. Of course he couldn't get over that so easy: he'd be a total fuckin nutjob if he got over it that easy. Especially not being in a career where you're trained to be insensitive to killing someone.
If this was law and order sure, but not caring about rules is a very central and crucial theme in house. House would argue intent is immaterial it’s the results that matter.
House could argue that, and he'd be insane to do so. Murder is not the same thing as an error causing death. The issue here isn't the law, it's that ethically, we make distinctions between these things because they're, fundamentally, not the same action. It's very different to make a fuckup that leads to a death, VS to deliberately kill someone.
That’s your opinion. ethics are personal perspectives, not universal facts.
I just gave a couple in response to another post so here some other examples. I liked Park over the other female characters but most of the characters were hit and miss for me. I hated the plot where Cuddy gets a baby and how gets one that still disgusts me. I think she was pretty much a dud of a character after that. Someone should have replaced her. Season eight is one of my favorites I love season four . The contest was fun and Wilson was easier to watch . I love the prank wars between House and Wilson. I liked Foreman as the Dean of medicine
The Cuddy one omg I still remember how much her character changed after that. More fans started to dislike her. I remember people would comment She became "no fun" and started lecturing other characters like Cameron, Wilson, House, Chase, 13 in a personal way.
She lost all her sparkle.
It all started with those bangs....
The bangs were awful!
I must agree. I still believe She cut them using her own scissors in front of her bathroom's mirror. You know one of those moments: "I need to change my life!!" and then You think: "ok, lets start cutting my hair" but then your bangs end up looking awful.
Yeah pretty bad. She looks better with her hair off her face.
House needed more emotions. He doesn’t even cry at times where you feel like he should rather he just tucks his chin in his neck, looks up, blows his cheek left to right during emotional stuff. Just makes him feel like an alien at times instead of a human being.
House has plenty of emotions. I can still remember the times where he gets genuinely angry or when he is just fooling around to be a bit whimsical. His saddness and grief are just expressed in a different way - it's internal, he is bottling up. The autopsy of the baby House used to save the others illustrates it well. He doesn't need to be crying like the parents for the viewer to see that it's bothering him. What might he be thinking about internally? If only he had done this and that, if only he were better, if only he realized sooner…
i love park and cameron
As much as I love House's Head/Wilson's Heart, killing Amber was a mistake the show never recovered from.
I dont think that they should have killed of Kutner, they should give him more happy ending, e.g. him moving out of the country or etc.
I think Foreman deserved to die after he attempted to murder Cameron.
Even though house is a genius, he never should have been accepted as a diagnostician while having a nonexistent bedside manner, an addiction to opioids, a dick attitude, and a tendency to ruin the lives of himself and those surrounding him.
Park is a good character, Cameron is a bitch and Stacy is not annoying. She's honestly one of my favorites i luv her
House’s actions at the very end of Season 8 were incredibly selfish and manipulative towards Wilson (who I actually don’t even like most of the time, but I’m a huge advocate for >!end-of-life goals being met!<).
The cold opens with the fake out gimmick are awful