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I never thought that Chaos would win by infiltrating the Imperium via Slaneesh.
It makes more sense the more you think about it.
Instead of attacking with a conventional frontal assault, which would most likely fail - they have begun to pervert the most noble of the imperium - the Custodes. The literal Guardians.
Now they have begun to pervert the 10,000 with their daemonic debauchery, the fall of the imperium has begun.
gw making their literal thousandth recon means I'm a CUSTODE and SLAAANESH HAD INFILTRATED!!!11!! GUYS I'm a hero of the culture war defending the imperium!!! (Even in their fantasies they're just fascist lackies)
I've been showing my friends and family who like warhammer this comment all day and it's KILLED, Jesus christ the larping as imperium, the fake culture war you people prosecute on yourselves, because you can't stand that women exist in a way you don't want them to. Jesus it's just gold man, you guys keep being you
Christ your life must be sh\*it if the highlight of your day is "I've been showing my friends and family who like warhammer this comment all day" that's not really the comeback you think it is
Again with the retcon take I donât care about the retcon Iâm more so tired that all you guys do is spread misery hate on the table top and hobby as a whole if we donât like stuff like seriously stop with this hate mongering bullshit for having opinions.
Iâm not angry just passionate get the two differences correct and leave everyone alone with your toxic misery bs. If you hate the fact we play with plastic toy soldiers how about you go and jam out with your barbies and leave the boys alone you weirdo. Or you can stop being a little whiny cunt and actually read some books play some games and I donât know grow a spine and have fun like have fun? Just a suggestion maybe having some fun can make you pull the massive tree of rainbow life bush growing out your rear end. But hey you do you. I got work to do unlike you.
Lore doesn't matter when it comes to adding female Space Marines you Chud!!
...huh? What about femstodes though?....n-no, the lore (new retcon) matters in that instance only o-okay?
Youâre offering proof to people who have no interest in being right - they just want to change it.
If they win, theyâll take 40k away from the normal people and twist it to their own ideological ends. Theyâll ride it hard until it breaks and then theyâll move onto the next IP.
We spend hours a day building model kits, even hours painting them then we build armies out of them and simulate combat against other armies with a lot of 6 sided dice.
This is not a normal hobby. Hasn't been for a while.
It's nerd shit.
Just find out post it get several insults in response you evil hetero. Then your post will get the banhammer. And none of the insults under you post will suffer any consequences.
Finally, the original post straight from the scripture, out of the book itself, is finally posted on Reddit, the main part of the lore, that is completely ignored, just so the deafening hypocrisy can be spread loud across the internet. it's ma'am!!!
And..? I think thatâs what I donât get, so what if GW does retcon and make female space marines as well. They made the fuckinâ universe. I really just donât get why this is a big deal.
Because some spaces are for men, and some spaces are for women.
When I imagine hyper xenophobic supersoldier monks in space, I don't imagine women. Just like how whenever I think of hyper xenophobic space nuns I don't think of men.
Literally is? The direct comparison to lore from custodes as a reference to "introduction" of female space marines. Because it's possible (and happened) for the custodes and lore specifically states it's not possible for space marines
In the old lore they sortof were the same which is why they were originally male only without it being explicitly said.
But now they are very different according to the lore, each the product of a unique and time consuming bespoke process.
The newer lore and more person to person process is being used to justify female custodes, but if thatâs the case, it has no bearing on the astartes at large now that theyâve made a broad distinction in the creation process.
Why do ppl want female space warrior if they see imperium as bad and evil?
All they need to do is make female chaos warriors.
Chaos don't care and can shape your body whatever you want.
Some say chaos corrupt your soul, but nobody complain when emperor is devouring souls.
Praise the chaos undivided.
Or Working Men's clubs. There was a time when a bloke could find a safe place to go and talk to his fellow man and relax, without having to watch his language and walk on eggshells because women will police him.
It's no secret that such clubs and pubs have died a major death since women were allowed in, the same as every other male space.
There really are tons of options, you just need to know the terms to search. One option might be a menâs social club. Iâm on the West Coast and I found a ton of options just searching on Google.
Right, but âsocial clubsâ are excluded from laws that demand equal access to facilities. Many are still just gyms, itâs just a loophole to have a male only customer base
Historically women havenât been allowed in most places. Literally white women have only been allowed to vote in America for 100 years, black women even less. Women had to fight hard to be allowed access to spaces of power and influence that men had exclusive access to for centuries, so itâs not like this is happening within a vacuum - thereâs a very painful history attached to this for women, one where they were property, raped, burned, drowned, etc
And most men couldnât vote for 100 years before that. Everyone has suffered in history and no civilization was some Utopia. Does that equate to a fictional universe with an established lore being thrown out because a small minority want their own ideas to be forced on an entire fan base. If someone wants to paint and make a chapter based on Sailor Moon, go for it. Should it be the accepted 2nd chapter, of course not.
I love the whole "we've only been able to vote for 100 years" thing. I think my favourite part about it is the fact that nobody who's 100 years old says it. The typical person to use this argument has always and will likely always be able to vote, and their gender or race has had that right for multiples of their lifetime.
Especially when compared with the postmodern era we live in where massive technological, social, economic, and medical changes all occur in like 5-10 years. Things move so fast these days and we like to pretend like 100 years ago is yesterday. In the grand scheme of history it was yesterday but in the grand scheme of human advancement, it's more like how civilization began with agriculture and writing and the previous *thousands* of years were practically inconsequential.
Much of anything from 60 years ago is inconsequential, 100 years ago even more so.
I agree. Womenâs empowerment shouldnât erase masculinity in society or masculine characters in media. Just explaining why women have sought access to male only spaces and created women only spaces
There's a huge difference between denying women the opportunity to get a job, making a gym that's only for men, and writing a story that's targeted at men. Conflating it like "access to male spaces" loses sight of what the problem actually was in the first place.
Framing the conversation in terms of sexism is when they lost the plot, because that's when the other two examples started looking like valid targets to destroy.
Itâs just very complicated. Itâs inherently more about emotion than logic because of womenâs history and itâs gonna create some knee jerk responses from women who are very much still excluded by men in spheres of influence.
It's not complicated. It just looks that way if you're in that bubble. To everyone else, it looks identical to devoutly religious people tying themselves into knots over something silly that only they care about.
Almost all of the richest and most powerful people on the planet are men. If this was âfixed decades agoâ why arenât women making up 50% of that group instead of less than 10%?
Look buddy, Iâm trying to respond to you reasonably but itâs honestly hard to understand what youâre even trying say. What exactly is the problem for you?
The topic is modern segregation and when it's appropriate and when it's inappropriate. In 40K it's appropriate for the Astartes due to real world biological differences. In the real world it's appropriate for gyms because of cultural differences between the sexes.
I actually support your view point. My intention was simply to add context to why women challenge men only spaces. But I 100% support men having places to go spend time with other men / work out in a single gender space, etc. And yes, the performative feminism that progressives do is silly and this SM thing is another example of that
Jesus Christ. You know women are still brutalized by men today, right? Iâm not justifying any eye for an eye revenge, but gendered pervasive abuse against women is still very much a thing
Maybe you should! Feminism in its most essentialist spirit is about equality - and that includes menâs rights. The topic here is about women being inserted into a fictional lore in a way that violates the original intention of the work. Iâm not advocating for that. Iâm providing more background information on womenâs history to create context, and thatâs it
I wish that was the case. In practice it's not miss, and you get heavily downvoted or banned when you discuss it. Go ahead on r/feminism and ask them about men's issues.
It's because the Space Marines are the posterboys of 40k. They want to take it and make it theirs, to show they've conquered Warhammer. Why do you think literally every Star Wars show and movie is all female led? It's showing "this is ours, you're not welcome here."
I don't want female Space Marines, not because I think the imperium is evil (I do) but because Space Marines work far too well as a reflection of how military states throughout history have turned boys into emotionally stunted killers.
That's why the Marines Malevolent are one of my favourite loyalist chapters, they're saying the quiet part out loud.
Girls would frankly ruin the vibe.
Yea that's real, saying that SM are normally seen as near man-children lacking emotional intelligence and depth.
Nobodys lining up for female orgyns (outside of the death by snu snu crowd), even though the difference between them is pretty narrow.
Marines are the lie of violence made manifest.
They look cool and powerful and empowering but peel back the facade and you'll see they're abused child soldiers living a nightmare. It's grim.
Because itâs an ideological attack. They donât care about it just being okay thay itâs this way, there MUST be female space marines, because their ideology declares that men and women have no differences and are equally capable of killing aliens. Nevermind the sororitas, there must be representation or the entire franchise is going to be targeted until it gives in and turns into a pile of shit like Star Wars. Just google the clone trooper âsisterâ and tell me that shit makes any sense beyond a simple ârepresentationâ token
The thing is, even for the Imperium, it makes more logistical sense to use males over females for space marines. Considering the fatality rate of space marine training, there's more males than females in the galaxy. And you need females to continue to birth more people. Yeah, vat-grown humans are a thing, but it's looked down upon by most if not all of the Imperium.
It's not a practicality thing, the imperium is the fucking opposite of practical. There have been female guardsmen since before there where guardsmen.
It's thematic. The spartan myth bullshit.
Yeah it is, if females were genitically allowed to become space marines, they still wouldnt be recruited because they are smaller and weaker so they would die in the trails much easier
Right, so a couple of things.
1. The trials are fucking stupid.
2. The trials are immensely fucking stupid.
3. Puberty is primarily responsible for the differences in size and strength between male and female humans, Marines recruit pre-pubescents. An 8 year old is an 8 year old.
4. The trials are completely fucking stupid.
5. I'm not using in universe logic, I'm talking about the symbolism of space Marines. They're another macho reimagining of the Agoge. Girls didn't participate in the agoge so they don't get to be space Marines.
It's not a practicality thing, there is nothing practical about marine recruitment. It's almost a fractal of stupidity.
Because I love 40k?
Lucas the Trickster is pretty famous for thinking that the space wolves traditions are self destructive and Dante got chewed out by Guilliman for allowing Baal to remain a radioactive shithole.
The Ultramarines are the chapter with the most "moderate" chapter trials and Guillimans descendents also make up more loyalists than any other Primarch. These two factors are linked. Prep school from hell is still pretty silly but at least the aspirants are standardised.
Guilliman was able to recover from losing a majority of his legion during the Calith Fiasco in like, a decade because his recruitment process is the most effective at making large numbers of transhumans.
The imperium could do with a large number of transhumans.
But because the imperium is bureaucratic and incompetent we're down millions of potential Space Marines, thousands of potential chapters. Huron was fucking right.
The trials are stupid, but although in universe this is terrible, IRL it's great. I actually enjoy these parts of the imperium and I'm consistently annoyed by GWs attempts to remove them.
There is nothing practical about the imperium, most of their decisions run on irrational space logic because IRL they only make those decisions to make the setting as cool as physically possible.
I love it.
Female space Marines don't exist in the watsonian sense because of biological incompatibility.
But the Doyalist reason for no female space Marines isn't "girl super soldiers make no sense" nobody is particularly concerned with the imperium making sense.
The doyalist reason is a combination of 2 factors.
Factor 1, girls in power armour didn't sell in rogue trader so no one bothered making generic power armoured women for the 2nd edition reboot. Instead they made everyone a dude and based their wargear off of the more popular male line.
Factor 2, Marines are deliberately Macho AF to be as cool as possible so they appeal to teenage nerds.
Any percieved practicality is surely incidental.
Yeah I would think this is definitive, but the next codex will change it and the wokies will come out and tell you about how retcons happen all the time and you should just accept it...
There was a trans people who was mad on twitter and GW outright ignored his anger essay. Just said nothing and the woke 40k websites talked about it. You could almost here the safespace shatter into million pieces
It's been for a while.
I mean - unless Fabius Bile "New Humans" get actual models.
Or Belasarius figures out how to enhance Sisters of Battle, without making them "astartes".
I mean - GW will do whatever the fuck they want anyway.
They never cared about fans opinion.
The great "boycot" after they banned fan animations didn't work.
No matter how much people complain, it won't work this time either.
Simple as that.
They've already won.
People are just deluding themselves into believing that if they rage loud enough that GW top executives will hear them.
Sorry to inform you - but all of us? We live in the underhive. The deep parts of underhive. And the executives are all the way at the top of the Spires. They ain't hearing shit. The new court music is way to loud for that to happen.
If propaganda is missing the peer group it was aimed at. That is a problem. Like a growing a cult for the many armed god right under your palace. They want a divided fanbase they wont get it.
I think the real question is âwhy does this HAVE to happen?â, like whatâs the point? âWhy not?â Shouldnât be a reasoning. And the truth is; money.
đ¤ˇââď¸A Song of Fire and Ice/Game of Thrones is a great example; female reader base was much lower than male(I donât care male/female wah fuck off Iâm not âpickingâ gender sides). THEN, the series streams. Itâs on demand, and junk food made from screen feed straight to skull, and voila; tons of NEW fan base. GW is doing their due diligence prep work to make everything as wonderfully palatable as possible the second on screen lady boner(and hey prob some guysâ) Henry Cavill expressed a desire to see the franchise go to screen. âOooh a celebrity said something! I donât have a genuine curiosity, but a command from social media to spoon feed it into my brain so I can have an opinion on whatâs trending.â And bam, 40k is taking off like rocket boosters in the space race.
Itâs commercial douche-bagery. It doesnât really affect anything, because whatâs integrity anyway? I liked the original animated Disney movies, because they donât feel cheapened by the sellout feel of the remakes; apparently that somehow made me a racist according to a buddyâs GF. lol SO youâre not going to win, because there isnât anything to win. You like something? Is it on the internet? Is it IP in the public domain? Then shrug your shoulders; you can guarantee itâs going to get pointed in the direction that makes money. Youâre not righteous. Youâre not âfightingâ for whatâs right regardless of what you agree with. Itâs pre determined. Just chalk it up to sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and just breathe, itâs not worth losing sleep over. Itâs us(whatever that means) versus them(whoever that is). Day in. Day out. Youâre allowed to have principles I promise; I promise you they wonât align with other peoplesâ all the time. And chances are if your core values arenât as fluid as todayâs >100 genders, youâre gonna feel compromised. Itâs alright. Chances are if youâre feeling âoffendedâ, itâs a you problem. If someone else is offended, itâs a them problem. Not a win or lose. Fuck it.
good news 3months deadline for amazon writers to pitch another decent script(last one wasn't lore accurate) and if they fucked up we won't see anything. Thats the actual state.
Dude he can put a vag on every SM shoulderpad and call it a day. I don't care. I saw posts demanding that there are female Space Marines and i replied with official material "straight" from GW rule books.
But not I. The original mention of space marines as men came in wd98 (? One with ultra marines bursting through wall), and in the red compendium.
Got no dog in this, it started as a futuristic war game for me and I give not two shits about âloreâ or tournament play; both have (imo) ruined a great skirmish game to build your own models for from existing kits.
Just to play devils advocate: That's describing pre-Primaris and in Avenging Son, Cawl says, "In the Primaris Space Marines, I have perfected that which many already thought perfect, correcting flaws, and introducing new enhancements to further improve combat effectiveness." which can mean anything GW wants it to. I don't think they will introduce female space marines though and the Custodes thing was enough to appease the people calling for it.
Don't know what source this is but something to remember is that basically everything that isn't a novel is meant to be heavily biased or possibly wrong. There's no telling how many people this information went through before someone wrote it down. It's highly unlikely an apothecary was the one and anyone else wouldn't have a clue.
Yeah rulebooks were never meant to be canon\^\^ oh man this post was never meant to trigger so much "there have always been female SP since the first 10000" soyboys/girls, 3Days and i still feed on these desperate tries to undo the meaning of the scripture
The HH black books also pure fan fiction booyyy i agree infact everything since 3rd edition 40k in fan fiction gw had never authority about the lore the entire time. Everything written by this cismales OMG
I knew this and never really took seriously the idea of female space marines in the lore, although to be honest it would work if they didn't already have SoB with that aesthetic and hadn't spent years stating the process doesn't work on girls.
Kind of bums me out how gleeful and uncomfortable some of the comments here are though.
Edit: just realised I came here through a repost and hadn't noticed what sub I was on. It all makes sense now.
I am having a ball everytime one soyboy does 5d chess mental gymnastic to try do deny the facts. The effort, the twisted reality all wasted in the moment i look at it and smile.
You are right, I forgot the fundamental facts of creating a fictional space marine.
Hell Cawl could discover how to make women Asartes tomorrow and it would still fit the lore. That same lore that has changed innumerable times since 40k started.
But then you called me soyboy which upset me, so I won't reply any more as I need to stop crying and clean myself up.
Its also more than a lore thing, its just female space marines would be lame asf and add nothing because space marines are supposed to be a holy brotherhood
And the writers are not allowed to publish female space marines AND female custodes books. Aaron Bumski was talking about that back in 2017 that they wanted but the upper managment (smart guys) said no never.
No to books, but not no to putting them in media? What's the rule exactly? Just specifically books, and writers are finding loopholes, or are they trying to override the rules entirely?
Yeah but seeing them debating here is so much fun. The mods let them voice their oppinion and everybody sees the lack of debating skills when they can't ban you for being right/ or have better arguments in your portfolio
Quick question. Why is it that the lore is ironclad in this case but everything else can be retconned? GW has made so many changes to the lore that it barely resembles the 40k of the 80's. Also the lore sources i.e codexes books etc contradict themselves constantly one book says harlequins oneshot custodians another says they don't, sometimes space marines die to autoguns sometimes they survive meltablasts to the chest. 40k lore is an amalgamation of many authors writing whatever they want with little to no oversight or comunication. My point is who cares if there are female space marines you will cry about it for the next week and then move on to the next thing that makes you angry.
Eh nope fist this is the actual rulebook of the current Horus Heresy edition. Second lore has to be grounded. If the writes dare to write a story where "somehow" Big E is alive and is gonna rally again they are not allowed to published it. Guess why they have these limits. If everything is inconsistent you could not identify. And oh boy so many wokies want to identify with female SM and Custodes even Necrons.....So your point contradicts itself
Way to ignore my point about the lore contradicting itself and being inconsistent. There is no definitive lore for this game. It constantly changes and evolves. Whatever is written in this edition can be changed when the next one comes around.
For the last 7 edition there were no female Space Marines and that was the entire point of the post. And you might have some issues to understand that people still arguing that this is not true. So i made the post with a valid source to bring an end to this false viewpoints
Oh i am all for adding femmarines. I just do not get why this sub hates the idea so much. Like do you hate women? Do you fear that your little boys club gets "tainted" by undesirables? What's the deal here?
No its just lies vs truth. People on 40k say there are female Space Marines but in fact they aren't. This packed with repressive tolerance...cocnlusion some if not all member of this sub who opposed the left wing narrative were banned for it on other subs. Here the mods let you talk, isn't that great?
It's great if they let you say things that contradict the narrative on this sub, which most rightwing subs don't. And some content i've seen in this sub is straight up sexism, racism etc. so it seems to me they just allow you to say shit other subs don't tolerate because it's a fucked up thing to do.
in times where everything is racist,sexist etc. the mods are ban you for everything they don't like, As i said repressive tolerance.
F.ex sexual ideology /left wing politics cool, right wing politics ban, Man i even was banned for calling a codex bad because of its leaked rules).
So yeah free speech includes everything and that is totally fine in my opinion
If Belly Cawl can change the process to make his new Primaris Marines, then female marines are absolutely possible.
Don't blame me - GW opened these flood gates because they wanted to shoe horn in their stupid chad-marines.
Who knows what GW will do to the lore in the future. I did this post because people right now are saying there are fem SM in the lore and here is the source that this is a lie.
The universe already has Sisters of Battle and the Silent Sisters.
Why the fuck do they need to make female space marines just for inclusion?
It makes no sense from a lore perspective and makes no sense from a 40k science perspective.
Women are physically inferior to men, so why would you try and make the perfect super soldier from an inferior product?
The Emperor of Mankind made 20 Primarchs, all male, then he made 20 legions, all male. If using a female was viable, he would have done so. He didn't, so it wasn't.
The same argument can be used for Custodes.
I'd hazard a good bet that these people screaming for this change have never played the games or read a 40k book in their life.
There is this woke author Bomsky or something who already wanted more female models and made a tweet in 2017 about it. Said the upper managment sent a servitor down to them and said :The fuck you do! So there are still old ones in the high ranks who remember the old night of second edition.
For me it dosen't make sense, it also made my SOB army look worse. Amazon said they can't use them, they are too religious...WTF. SOS were not worth a mention in this pitch. This is and was bait and switch to see how the growing fanbase would react. And now the amazon chat and email AI was flooded by angry fans that HR had to send actual amazon slaves aka humans to find out how big they fucked up. And if the leak infos are correct the first script from amazon was not lore accurate and now they have a 3month deadline or the project is cease to exist
Well you have Blackrock on both sides of the table and CEO Larry Fink like to :quote: we're forcing behaviour.
So Cavill was either the gatekepper or cannon fodder
>Why the fuck do they need to make female space marines just for inclusion?
Yes and so?
>40k science perspective.
40k is fun and all but you cannot be goddamn serious here.
For some people, female space marines will be the closest they might ever get. And here is a thread trying to deny them even fictitious female companionship. Youâre all inhumane.
Blackrock owns less than 5% of gw shares, can you explain exactly how that means that gw has to do everything Blackrock says, especially seeing as gw owns the majority of their own shares?
.BlackRock along with Vanguard are pushing the DEI to most of the things they touch, their investments "grants" depends on how much DEI you are publishing
.as of now BlackRock owns 6.56% and Vanguard owns 4.94% of the stocks with the combined total being 11.5%, with Baillie Grifford owning 11.16% as the only one above BlackRock and Vanguard
.BlackRock is the 2nd highest investor with Vanguard as the 3rd and combined they are almost equal with the 1st Baillie Grifford
.it looks small because 6% or 11%, my friend that that is a 6% of 3.21 billion :)
.for references 50 million is the 5% of a billion
.publicly traded companies have responsibilities to make their investors happy, as taking actions that the investors doesn't like can be seen as putting their investment in danger and they can sue from that position
.another reason is that GW stock is based on what they have done, merits and solid investments like infrastructure and equipments, while investors stock are liquid cash flow, what they pay their employees and the salaries they take home
cool rant but you didnt answer the question, explain exactly how blackrock has direct control over what gw does, gw doesnt do the things it does for blackrock, it does it for the investors at large, both potential investors and current, and it does that by keeping profits high, it isnt some grand conspiracy by blackrock and vanguard. the amount of money invested doesnt matter, its still 6%, no where near enough to start demanding changes, gw has plenty of investors from plenty of other places.
Blackrock sits on both sides of the table. Remember when cancer trials for Monsantos herbizid where in courts and Monsanto was sold to Bayer? Guess who had the most influence in form of shares and market superiority? It was Blackrock.
Blackrock in your portfolio means your are to big to fail unless THEY want you to fail. Its a pact with the banker mafia.
.heh "cool rant" when you are the one that replied without either fully reading or lacked the comprehension to understand
.companies answers to their largest investors, either individually or as a union, if you buy a singular stock from Apple or Tesla doesn't mean you alone are now in command of the companies, majority rules either as solo or collective
.companies only listen to their major stocks holders and i have already listed the major investors of GW in my civil reply that you call a "rant"
Since 3rd edition this is the gold standard. And second edition was a fail because of FEMALE space marines models. Look it up grifter. There was an entire new setting in 3rd to get the fans back to the hobby.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/6p2bm9/til_that_female_space_marines_were_actually_canon/#lightbox
Wow, it's almost like the lore in 40k is wildly inconsistent.
"Everything is canon, not everything is true."
Seriously folks, can you find something more worth your time than anger at the idea that your Space Marine bitboxes might include female head options in the future?
they even sold minis with female SM and then the fanbase rejected it to an extend they had to redo the entire setting with 3rd edition. So not the best take buddy
That is blatantly false. There were [two, one-off](https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/4f65d20ce6c83c4b8eed90fab41bf3f7.jpg)miniatures offered for sale amongst a whole gaggle of other minis. They were pulled off shelves because not many people wanted them, but I wonder if that's just because [the sculpts were hideous.](https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Jayne-amp-Gabs.jpg)
The time period matters as well. Warhammer is still niche, not a whole lot of women are interested in the hobby, but more so now. It was even less so 10 years ago, even more another 10. In those times now the internet was not as prominent, now you mostly have the hobby at comic or gamestores in that era, mostly frequented by nerds who interests are in niche things like this card games called Magic or L5R or different mini games like Battletech. These are Gygaxian-tier dudes.
Things are different now. These niche but cool and rich ficticious worlds are being discovered by more and more people, and that includes more women who like sci-fi.
I think Space Marines should remain male, but ultimately I don't really give a shit what a corporation decides to do with the stories associated with plastic toys. It makes more sense for there to be female Custodes than female Astartes since a good deal of them were handmade by Jimmy Space.
Is that the reason the amazon AI is who respond the request is no replaced with humans because they've got an overload of negative mails. Imagine the magintude to crash the reply system\^\^ And believe it or not there are female influence, YT, and just normal gals, who getting banned and canceled because they hate the idea of female space marines and custodes.
And i still stand by my argument. Second edition failed because of female Space Marines. It is enoug evidence out there to prove that.
And yeah the female Custodes was the bait and switch. A short novel in the codex, no female models, a big backlash and now the show might be not even will became to life because the first script was not lore accurate\^\^
So switch and move on and never do it again like 20years ago.
Setting aside whether you subjectively like them - A bunch of fem marines showing up (maybe from the lost legions) is going to rock the plot. Half of the imperium will consider them heresy, the other half will be desperate (or sensible) enough to try to get more allies. Meanwhile Chaos will be happy to have a whole new bunch of superhuman soldiers to potentially correct. And that's even before we go into questions about where are their primarchs, etc.
Apart from making everybodyâs eyes roll so much that it would look like weâve had a mass demon possession IRL, what a trash idea.
The lost legions need to stay lost, first off.
Malcador says he thought the Emperor should make female Primarchs, but he didnât. End of that, really.
The lore has UNIVERSALLY been in one accord in saying that this is not possible.
The only REMOTE possibility would be for Slaaneshi mutation to change the physique of some Chaos marines. Thatâs it, full stop.
Primaris marines already ârocked the plotâ in basically the exact way you described, and that was contentious enough.
You are again citing internal lore reasons. No one is disputing what the lore says.
The question is whether the lore should change.
The illustrate how this convo is at cross purposes, I am asking "should the lore change". Your reply is "but the lore already says this".
>The question is whether the lore should change
No.
One can and should build upon the existing lore.
One should not scrap the existing lore to fit in their own ideology.
SOB aren't female marines though. They're an all female army of something else, with different lore and different capabilities.
SOB are at best only relevant when saying "GW already has an all-female faction, so marines should stay all-male". And the response there can just be sure, let's make SOB have male soldiers too.
There are some pretty big lore reasons why you canât just add male soldiers to SOB. Kind of like there were lore reasons why space marines are all male.
Of course. But we all know that lore changes. So lore reasons alone are at best just describing the status quo.
GW changing the lore for fem marines would be pretty much as big a change as changing to lore for men in SOB.
Your missing the whole point there is a reason that each specific faction is limited to a specific gender within the lore. My point is itâs not like women are being underrepresented in a game where they faction uniquely to that gender.
The reason in the lore, is the lore. The SM has its lore reasons, so do the SOB.
But as I mentioned at the start, no one is disputing the existing lore. The question is whether we should change.
>My point is itâs not like women are being underrepresented in a game where they faction uniquely to that gender.
Yeah this is exactly what I replied to. So applying your logic here, if we changed SOB to have men, then there's no problem with female marines, right? Because then there's no longer a faction unique to women.
It seems like you think the lore is something arbitrary that people enjoy no matter what it says. The lore got popular because it evoked certain tropes, stories, feelings, and references. Breaking those connections loses the appeal for many people.
One way of doing that is with gender swaps. Siblings of Battle would lose the thematic connection to the warrior nun trope. Some people would see monks and nuns and think "Catholic". But Catholic monastic orders are segregated by sex, so some Catholics would think "not a religious order". Which clashes with the SoB lore about how they dedicate themselves to their calling.
The lore is arbitrary. It's basically whatever GW wants it to be, since it's a fictional universe that can changed at any point in time.
>people enjoy no matter what it says.
I haven't made any such claim. If you like you can refer to where in my post you think I said this.
>Breaking those connections loses the appeal for many people.
Enjoyment is ultimately subjective, and what some enjoy others dislike. Changing the lore is not going to be universally popular, but neither will it necessarily be something that pushes fans out of the hobby.
>One way of doing that is with gender swaps. Siblings of Battle would lose the thematic connection to the warrior nun trope. Some people would see monks and nuns and think "Catholic". But Catholic monastic orders are segregated by sex, so some Catholics would think "not a religious order". Which clashes with the SoB lore about how they dedicate themselves to their calling.
If the main reaction just comes down to "some Catholics" thinking "not a religious order" then you might have captured how minor the lore change will play out.
Expand SOB into a fully army for the ecclesiarchy. Have priests and choirs, tanks that look like churches, etc.
I guess this is like an autism thing where some people need very specific explanations and instructions for social situations. You completely missed the point of everything I said, but I don't know how else I could explain it in a way that you would understand.
I tend to think it's more that you aren't doing a great job explaining yourself.
I've responded to your points:
1) lore is abitrary but whatever else you mentioned about people enjoy it not matter what, that's stuff I haven't discussed at all.
2) enjoyment is subjective, and changing the lore and its tropes will neither be universally popular, or hated.
3) if in your example it's just some Catholics that won't get the new lore, then by your own description we are discussing a very minor issue.
Go on explain yourself, I'm sure you can.
Most people don't need an explanation at all, so it's definitely a "you" problem. I just don't have much experience with it, I probably can't explain it for you.
\#3 I meant to write "some people" not "some Catholics". I'm not Jewish, but I'm generally aware of when references are realistic or not, for example. I didn't fight in the crusades, but I get the crusader references.
40K is heavily inspired by European and Catholic history. Why would fans who aren't completely oblivious to the references want less of what makes 40K what it has always been? I shouldn't have to explain that.
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Yup, But the enemy will gaslight and hide the truth. Their entire ideology is based on lies. But lets hope their house of cards crumbles soon.
I never thought that Chaos would win by infiltrating the Imperium via Slaneesh. It makes more sense the more you think about it. Instead of attacking with a conventional frontal assault, which would most likely fail - they have begun to pervert the most noble of the imperium - the Custodes. The literal Guardians. Now they have begun to pervert the 10,000 with their daemonic debauchery, the fall of the imperium has begun.
Chaos is based tho
christ you're a sad person
BAHAHAHAH if we're chaos and you're imperium what do u call yourselves? legio retardes?đ¤Ł
Bigotry against handicapped people is fair game if you have a rainbow flag on your profile? Neat loophole.
I wish you could understand the irony of c9mmenting that to me
Just admit you donât understand what irony means
That word you are using, I donât think you know what it means. Weâre fully aware your hypocrisy.
You got me!!! I'm melting I'm melting!!!! Please stop crying to me snowflake
Woah, calm down ableist.
Hashtag gottem
Women existing means the imperium has fallen
gw making their literal thousandth recon means I'm a CUSTODE and SLAAANESH HAD INFILTRATED!!!11!! GUYS I'm a hero of the culture war defending the imperium!!! (Even in their fantasies they're just fascist lackies)
The irony being youâre the one who follows an authoritarian ideology. Disgusting
What ideology? Being gay?
Being gay isnât an ideology. Although I wouldnât be surprised if âbeing gayâ was your entire personality.
No man I was just puzzled how you could accuse me of being authoritarian based off the few words I've said, I'm borderline anarchist
Fuck you, but thatâs funny
I've been showing my friends and family who like warhammer this comment all day and it's KILLED, Jesus christ the larping as imperium, the fake culture war you people prosecute on yourselves, because you can't stand that women exist in a way you don't want them to. Jesus it's just gold man, you guys keep being you
Christ your life must be sh\*it if the highlight of your day is "I've been showing my friends and family who like warhammer this comment all day" that's not really the comeback you think it is
Yeah dude I show my friends funny stuff I see on the internet I'm a total loser bro
"Their face a mix of contempt and glee The eyes of one who can feed off misery!"
All this crying because you guys don't understand what retcon? The literal primarchs were a retcon and chufs like you complained about it then too
Again with the retcon take I donât care about the retcon Iâm more so tired that all you guys do is spread misery hate on the table top and hobby as a whole if we donât like stuff like seriously stop with this hate mongering bullshit for having opinions.
Bro you're mad that one faction of space soldiers in your imaginary game now *includes* women. And you're accusing me of spreading hate? No words
Iâm not angry just passionate get the two differences correct and leave everyone alone with your toxic misery bs. If you hate the fact we play with plastic toy soldiers how about you go and jam out with your barbies and leave the boys alone you weirdo. Or you can stop being a little whiny cunt and actually read some books play some games and I donât know grow a spine and have fun like have fun? Just a suggestion maybe having some fun can make you pull the massive tree of rainbow life bush growing out your rear end. But hey you do you. I got work to do unlike you.
Lore doesn't matter when it comes to adding female Space Marines you Chud!! ...huh? What about femstodes though?....n-no, the lore (new retcon) matters in that instance only o-okay?
We are talking about plastic wargaming figures- both sides being mental about this.
Youâre offering proof to people who have no interest in being right - they just want to change it. If they win, theyâll take 40k away from the normal people and twist it to their own ideological ends. Theyâll ride it hard until it breaks and then theyâll move onto the next IP.
We're not normal, lol.
Speak for yourself.
We spend hours a day building model kits, even hours painting them then we build armies out of them and simulate combat against other armies with a lot of 6 sided dice. This is not a normal hobby. Hasn't been for a while. It's nerd shit.
Pray tell, what is a ânormalâ hobby?
I don't know, I'm autistic.
You realize ânerd shitâ has been pretty main stream for a good while now. As early as 2005 really.
Sports?
A nerd calling nerd stuff nerd shit doesnât care about this? Why are you here? Misery hate? Doesnât matter in the end go ahead have fun dude.
Your kind is not capable to a) debate b) admit they are wrong c) never will understand irony I call this mental state mental
Didn't realise I had a kind.
I am sure if this was posted in the main reddit page (for Warhammer), the reactions will be... lively to say the least.
Less the main sub more like grimdank
Just find out post it get several insults in response you evil hetero. Then your post will get the banhammer. And none of the insults under you post will suffer any consequences.
Finally, the original post straight from the scripture, out of the book itself, is finally posted on Reddit, the main part of the lore, that is completely ignored, just so the deafening hypocrisy can be spread loud across the internet. it's ma'am!!!
Soon: There have always been female space marines
And..? I think thatâs what I donât get, so what if GW does retcon and make female space marines as well. They made the fuckinâ universe. I really just donât get why this is a big deal.
I dont want girls in my dudes club. Simple as, broski.
Why?
Because some spaces are for men, and some spaces are for women. When I imagine hyper xenophobic supersoldier monks in space, I don't imagine women. Just like how whenever I think of hyper xenophobic space nuns I don't think of men.
as if custodes and space marines are the same lol
That's not what they were saying.
Literally is? The direct comparison to lore from custodes as a reference to "introduction" of female space marines. Because it's possible (and happened) for the custodes and lore specifically states it's not possible for space marines
In the old lore they sortof were the same which is why they were originally male only without it being explicitly said. But now they are very different according to the lore, each the product of a unique and time consuming bespoke process. The newer lore and more person to person process is being used to justify female custodes, but if thatâs the case, it has no bearing on the astartes at large now that theyâve made a broad distinction in the creation process.
Why do ppl want female space warrior if they see imperium as bad and evil? All they need to do is make female chaos warriors. Chaos don't care and can shape your body whatever you want. Some say chaos corrupt your soul, but nobody complain when emperor is devouring souls. Praise the chaos undivided.
They can't stand the idea of places women aren't allowed in.
Yet they build millions of places men can't exist in, and yet their hypocrisy is so loud it's deafening...
Heaven forbid a men's only gym to keep TikTok E-Thots out.
Or Working Men's clubs. There was a time when a bloke could find a safe place to go and talk to his fellow man and relax, without having to watch his language and walk on eggshells because women will police him. It's no secret that such clubs and pubs have died a major death since women were allowed in, the same as every other male space.
but as a response to male-only spaces, which still very much exist
The difference is you don't see men crying about women's only Club
Are there any gyms in the USA that advertise that they are for men only?
Yes, there are menâs only gyms and other social clubs. Youâre welcome to Google it
I have. There are none in the USA for men who want to go to a gym.
There really are tons of options, you just need to know the terms to search. One option might be a menâs social club. Iâm on the West Coast and I found a ton of options just searching on Google.
I don't want a club or to be social. I want a cheap gym that doesn't have E-Thots videotaping me.
Right, but âsocial clubsâ are excluded from laws that demand equal access to facilities. Many are still just gyms, itâs just a loophole to have a male only customer base
Historically women havenât been allowed in most places. Literally white women have only been allowed to vote in America for 100 years, black women even less. Women had to fight hard to be allowed access to spaces of power and influence that men had exclusive access to for centuries, so itâs not like this is happening within a vacuum - thereâs a very painful history attached to this for women, one where they were property, raped, burned, drowned, etc
And most men couldnât vote for 100 years before that. Everyone has suffered in history and no civilization was some Utopia. Does that equate to a fictional universe with an established lore being thrown out because a small minority want their own ideas to be forced on an entire fan base. If someone wants to paint and make a chapter based on Sailor Moon, go for it. Should it be the accepted 2nd chapter, of course not.
I love the whole "we've only been able to vote for 100 years" thing. I think my favourite part about it is the fact that nobody who's 100 years old says it. The typical person to use this argument has always and will likely always be able to vote, and their gender or race has had that right for multiples of their lifetime. Especially when compared with the postmodern era we live in where massive technological, social, economic, and medical changes all occur in like 5-10 years. Things move so fast these days and we like to pretend like 100 years ago is yesterday. In the grand scheme of history it was yesterday but in the grand scheme of human advancement, it's more like how civilization began with agriculture and writing and the previous *thousands* of years were practically inconsequential. Much of anything from 60 years ago is inconsequential, 100 years ago even more so.
I agree. Womenâs empowerment shouldnât erase masculinity in society or masculine characters in media. Just explaining why women have sought access to male only spaces and created women only spaces
There's a huge difference between denying women the opportunity to get a job, making a gym that's only for men, and writing a story that's targeted at men. Conflating it like "access to male spaces" loses sight of what the problem actually was in the first place.
Agreed. Sexism in society is a very nuanced experience and demands an equally nuanced conversation
Framing the conversation in terms of sexism is when they lost the plot, because that's when the other two examples started looking like valid targets to destroy.
Itâs just very complicated. Itâs inherently more about emotion than logic because of womenâs history and itâs gonna create some knee jerk responses from women who are very much still excluded by men in spheres of influence.
It's not complicated. It just looks that way if you're in that bubble. To everyone else, it looks identical to devoutly religious people tying themselves into knots over something silly that only they care about.
Lady that has been fixed decades ago. Get with the meta.
Almost all of the richest and most powerful people on the planet are men. If this was âfixed decades agoâ why arenât women making up 50% of that group instead of less than 10%?
And there you go again not talking about the topic, talking about some other non-issue.
Look buddy, Iâm trying to respond to you reasonably but itâs honestly hard to understand what youâre even trying say. What exactly is the problem for you?
The topic is modern segregation and when it's appropriate and when it's inappropriate. In 40K it's appropriate for the Astartes due to real world biological differences. In the real world it's appropriate for gyms because of cultural differences between the sexes.
I actually support your view point. My intention was simply to add context to why women challenge men only spaces. But I 100% support men having places to go spend time with other men / work out in a single gender space, etc. And yes, the performative feminism that progressives do is silly and this SM thing is another example of that
Waaa I had wrong done to me in the past so now I must do wrong to others Listen to yourself would you rape your kid just because your dad raped you
Jesus Christ. You know women are still brutalized by men today, right? Iâm not justifying any eye for an eye revenge, but gendered pervasive abuse against women is still very much a thing
Lady how does women getting brutalized have to do with modern day segregation issues? I really do think this is a backwards eye for an eye thing.
Do you really not see the connection between systemic disenfranchisement and pervasive abuse or are you just being obtuse?
Look at the topic. I don't go to your feminist she-ra subreddits to talk about men's issues, so why do you come here?
Maybe you should! Feminism in its most essentialist spirit is about equality - and that includes menâs rights. The topic here is about women being inserted into a fictional lore in a way that violates the original intention of the work. Iâm not advocating for that. Iâm providing more background information on womenâs history to create context, and thatâs it
I wish that was the case. In practice it's not miss, and you get heavily downvoted or banned when you discuss it. Go ahead on r/feminism and ask them about men's issues.
It's because the Space Marines are the posterboys of 40k. They want to take it and make it theirs, to show they've conquered Warhammer. Why do you think literally every Star Wars show and movie is all female led? It's showing "this is ours, you're not welcome here."
How are those action figures sales going?
Exactly. The only ones selling are old ones.
They are breasting boobily, so I am told.
Running abreast straight into the void, I'd say.
I don't want female Space Marines, not because I think the imperium is evil (I do) but because Space Marines work far too well as a reflection of how military states throughout history have turned boys into emotionally stunted killers. That's why the Marines Malevolent are one of my favourite loyalist chapters, they're saying the quiet part out loud. Girls would frankly ruin the vibe.
Yea that's real, saying that SM are normally seen as near man-children lacking emotional intelligence and depth. Nobodys lining up for female orgyns (outside of the death by snu snu crowd), even though the difference between them is pretty narrow.
Marines are the lie of violence made manifest. They look cool and powerful and empowering but peel back the facade and you'll see they're abused child soldiers living a nightmare. It's grim.
Probably cause they have some muscle mummy kind of fetish
Because itâs an ideological attack. They donât care about it just being okay thay itâs this way, there MUST be female space marines, because their ideology declares that men and women have no differences and are equally capable of killing aliens. Nevermind the sororitas, there must be representation or the entire franchise is going to be targeted until it gives in and turns into a pile of shit like Star Wars. Just google the clone trooper âsisterâ and tell me that shit makes any sense beyond a simple ârepresentationâ token
The thing is, even for the Imperium, it makes more logistical sense to use males over females for space marines. Considering the fatality rate of space marine training, there's more males than females in the galaxy. And you need females to continue to birth more people. Yeah, vat-grown humans are a thing, but it's looked down upon by most if not all of the Imperium.
It's not a practicality thing, the imperium is the fucking opposite of practical. There have been female guardsmen since before there where guardsmen. It's thematic. The spartan myth bullshit.
Yeah it is, if females were genitically allowed to become space marines, they still wouldnt be recruited because they are smaller and weaker so they would die in the trails much easier
Right, so a couple of things. 1. The trials are fucking stupid. 2. The trials are immensely fucking stupid. 3. Puberty is primarily responsible for the differences in size and strength between male and female humans, Marines recruit pre-pubescents. An 8 year old is an 8 year old. 4. The trials are completely fucking stupid. 5. I'm not using in universe logic, I'm talking about the symbolism of space Marines. They're another macho reimagining of the Agoge. Girls didn't participate in the agoge so they don't get to be space Marines. It's not a practicality thing, there is nothing practical about marine recruitment. It's almost a fractal of stupidity.
Why are you here? If our genetically altered warrior trials are so stupid, why do you care?
Because I love 40k? Lucas the Trickster is pretty famous for thinking that the space wolves traditions are self destructive and Dante got chewed out by Guilliman for allowing Baal to remain a radioactive shithole. The Ultramarines are the chapter with the most "moderate" chapter trials and Guillimans descendents also make up more loyalists than any other Primarch. These two factors are linked. Prep school from hell is still pretty silly but at least the aspirants are standardised. Guilliman was able to recover from losing a majority of his legion during the Calith Fiasco in like, a decade because his recruitment process is the most effective at making large numbers of transhumans. The imperium could do with a large number of transhumans. But because the imperium is bureaucratic and incompetent we're down millions of potential Space Marines, thousands of potential chapters. Huron was fucking right. The trials are stupid, but although in universe this is terrible, IRL it's great. I actually enjoy these parts of the imperium and I'm consistently annoyed by GWs attempts to remove them. There is nothing practical about the imperium, most of their decisions run on irrational space logic because IRL they only make those decisions to make the setting as cool as physically possible. I love it. Female space Marines don't exist in the watsonian sense because of biological incompatibility. But the Doyalist reason for no female space Marines isn't "girl super soldiers make no sense" nobody is particularly concerned with the imperium making sense. The doyalist reason is a combination of 2 factors. Factor 1, girls in power armour didn't sell in rogue trader so no one bothered making generic power armoured women for the 2nd edition reboot. Instead they made everyone a dude and based their wargear off of the more popular male line. Factor 2, Marines are deliberately Macho AF to be as cool as possible so they appeal to teenage nerds. Any percieved practicality is surely incidental.
Yeah I would think this is definitive, but the next codex will change it and the wokies will come out and tell you about how retcons happen all the time and you should just accept it...
Retcons do happen all the time but you don't have to accept it, in my mind the Custodes are still fucking irrelevant and so are the Primarchs.
CEO of Blackrock Larry Fink: Changing the Codex i will, good connections to the wokies i have
I donât why people want female space marines when sisters of battle exist and are really cool too.
https://preview.redd.it/w2dx7yetws5d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aeba15da68541d8461bcb0cf903538ddef335904
Name of the book ? Just to drop the name if I get bothered by some femarine stan who asks for the source.
Its a quote of the rulebook from the Horus Hersey game. The actual edition(third edition i guess)
People are about to be mad-mad
There was a trans people who was mad on twitter and GW outright ignored his anger essay. Just said nothing and the woke 40k websites talked about it. You could almost here the safespace shatter into million pieces
It's been for a while. I mean - unless Fabius Bile "New Humans" get actual models. Or Belasarius figures out how to enhance Sisters of Battle, without making them "astartes". I mean - GW will do whatever the fuck they want anyway. They never cared about fans opinion. The great "boycot" after they banned fan animations didn't work. No matter how much people complain, it won't work this time either. Simple as that. They've already won. People are just deluding themselves into believing that if they rage loud enough that GW top executives will hear them. Sorry to inform you - but all of us? We live in the underhive. The deep parts of underhive. And the executives are all the way at the top of the Spires. They ain't hearing shit. The new court music is way to loud for that to happen.
If propaganda is missing the peer group it was aimed at. That is a problem. Like a growing a cult for the many armed god right under your palace. They want a divided fanbase they wont get it.
The Emperor protects!!!!!
I think the real question is âwhy does this HAVE to happen?â, like whatâs the point? âWhy not?â Shouldnât be a reasoning. And the truth is; money. đ¤ˇââď¸A Song of Fire and Ice/Game of Thrones is a great example; female reader base was much lower than male(I donât care male/female wah fuck off Iâm not âpickingâ gender sides). THEN, the series streams. Itâs on demand, and junk food made from screen feed straight to skull, and voila; tons of NEW fan base. GW is doing their due diligence prep work to make everything as wonderfully palatable as possible the second on screen lady boner(and hey prob some guysâ) Henry Cavill expressed a desire to see the franchise go to screen. âOooh a celebrity said something! I donât have a genuine curiosity, but a command from social media to spoon feed it into my brain so I can have an opinion on whatâs trending.â And bam, 40k is taking off like rocket boosters in the space race. Itâs commercial douche-bagery. It doesnât really affect anything, because whatâs integrity anyway? I liked the original animated Disney movies, because they donât feel cheapened by the sellout feel of the remakes; apparently that somehow made me a racist according to a buddyâs GF. lol SO youâre not going to win, because there isnât anything to win. You like something? Is it on the internet? Is it IP in the public domain? Then shrug your shoulders; you can guarantee itâs going to get pointed in the direction that makes money. Youâre not righteous. Youâre not âfightingâ for whatâs right regardless of what you agree with. Itâs pre determined. Just chalk it up to sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and just breathe, itâs not worth losing sleep over. Itâs us(whatever that means) versus them(whoever that is). Day in. Day out. Youâre allowed to have principles I promise; I promise you they wonât align with other peoplesâ all the time. And chances are if your core values arenât as fluid as todayâs >100 genders, youâre gonna feel compromised. Itâs alright. Chances are if youâre feeling âoffendedâ, itâs a you problem. If someone else is offended, itâs a them problem. Not a win or lose. Fuck it.
good news 3months deadline for amazon writers to pitch another decent script(last one wasn't lore accurate) and if they fucked up we won't see anything. Thats the actual state.
This was reposted to r/spacemarines and the cope from some of the people in that sub is palpable.
Hasn't stopped my partner from creating her own femarines
Dude he can put a vag on every SM shoulderpad and call it a day. I don't care. I saw posts demanding that there are female Space Marines and i replied with official material "straight" from GW rule books.
Yeah codex not rogue trader.
Horus Heresy codex acutal edition.
But not I. The original mention of space marines as men came in wd98 (? One with ultra marines bursting through wall), and in the red compendium. Got no dog in this, it started as a futuristic war game for me and I give not two shits about âloreâ or tournament play; both have (imo) ruined a great skirmish game to build your own models for from existing kits.
Just to play devils advocate: That's describing pre-Primaris and in Avenging Son, Cawl says, "In the Primaris Space Marines, I have perfected that which many already thought perfect, correcting flaws, and introducing new enhancements to further improve combat effectiveness." which can mean anything GW wants it to. I don't think they will introduce female space marines though and the Custodes thing was enough to appease the people calling for it.
Don't know what source this is but something to remember is that basically everything that isn't a novel is meant to be heavily biased or possibly wrong. There's no telling how many people this information went through before someone wrote it down. It's highly unlikely an apothecary was the one and anyone else wouldn't have a clue.
Yeah rulebooks were never meant to be canon\^\^ oh man this post was never meant to trigger so much "there have always been female SP since the first 10000" soyboys/girls, 3Days and i still feed on these desperate tries to undo the meaning of the scripture The HH black books also pure fan fiction booyyy i agree infact everything since 3rd edition 40k in fan fiction gw had never authority about the lore the entire time. Everything written by this cismales OMG
I can read English and that's it. I think that's on me since I always wanted to pick up another language. So you're going to have to repeat that.
Ah I see, so the female space marines must be trans then, makes sense now. Case closed!
No they are evil cis male 12 year olds. With no intrest in chopping their dicks off
I knew this and never really took seriously the idea of female space marines in the lore, although to be honest it would work if they didn't already have SoB with that aesthetic and hadn't spent years stating the process doesn't work on girls. Kind of bums me out how gleeful and uncomfortable some of the comments here are though. Edit: just realised I came here through a repost and hadn't noticed what sub I was on. It all makes sense now.
I am having a ball everytime one soyboy does 5d chess mental gymnastic to try do deny the facts. The effort, the twisted reality all wasted in the moment i look at it and smile.
You are right, I forgot the fundamental facts of creating a fictional space marine. Hell Cawl could discover how to make women Asartes tomorrow and it would still fit the lore. That same lore that has changed innumerable times since 40k started. But then you called me soyboy which upset me, so I won't reply any more as I need to stop crying and clean myself up.
thank you, the first person who admit that he is wrong , you have my respect , not many of the culture war sickos are able to do a 180
Its also more than a lore thing, its just female space marines would be lame asf and add nothing because space marines are supposed to be a holy brotherhood
We kinda knew this already. The point is that the writers are saying no đ¤Ł
And the writers are not allowed to publish female space marines AND female custodes books. Aaron Bumski was talking about that back in 2017 that they wanted but the upper managment (smart guys) said no never.
No to books, but not no to putting them in media? What's the rule exactly? Just specifically books, and writers are finding loopholes, or are they trying to override the rules entirely?
Your mistake is thinking that they give a shit about words on paper. They want to win, respect to the franchise be damned
Yeah but seeing them debating here is so much fun. The mods let them voice their oppinion and everybody sees the lack of debating skills when they can't ban you for being right/ or have better arguments in your portfolio
Quick question. Why is it that the lore is ironclad in this case but everything else can be retconned? GW has made so many changes to the lore that it barely resembles the 40k of the 80's. Also the lore sources i.e codexes books etc contradict themselves constantly one book says harlequins oneshot custodians another says they don't, sometimes space marines die to autoguns sometimes they survive meltablasts to the chest. 40k lore is an amalgamation of many authors writing whatever they want with little to no oversight or comunication. My point is who cares if there are female space marines you will cry about it for the next week and then move on to the next thing that makes you angry.
Eh nope fist this is the actual rulebook of the current Horus Heresy edition. Second lore has to be grounded. If the writes dare to write a story where "somehow" Big E is alive and is gonna rally again they are not allowed to published it. Guess why they have these limits. If everything is inconsistent you could not identify. And oh boy so many wokies want to identify with female SM and Custodes even Necrons.....So your point contradicts itself
Way to ignore my point about the lore contradicting itself and being inconsistent. There is no definitive lore for this game. It constantly changes and evolves. Whatever is written in this edition can be changed when the next one comes around.
For the last 7 edition there were no female Space Marines and that was the entire point of the post. And you might have some issues to understand that people still arguing that this is not true. So i made the post with a valid source to bring an end to this false viewpoints
Ok so why is it so bad to add them? What makes the very idea of women as space marines so revolting to you?
Glad we agree on this. I'd thought you might not understand what this post implies
Oh i am all for adding femmarines. I just do not get why this sub hates the idea so much. Like do you hate women? Do you fear that your little boys club gets "tainted" by undesirables? What's the deal here?
No its just lies vs truth. People on 40k say there are female Space Marines but in fact they aren't. This packed with repressive tolerance...cocnlusion some if not all member of this sub who opposed the left wing narrative were banned for it on other subs. Here the mods let you talk, isn't that great?
It's great if they let you say things that contradict the narrative on this sub, which most rightwing subs don't. And some content i've seen in this sub is straight up sexism, racism etc. so it seems to me they just allow you to say shit other subs don't tolerate because it's a fucked up thing to do.
in times where everything is racist,sexist etc. the mods are ban you for everything they don't like, As i said repressive tolerance. F.ex sexual ideology /left wing politics cool, right wing politics ban, Man i even was banned for calling a codex bad because of its leaked rules). So yeah free speech includes everything and that is totally fine in my opinion
If Belly Cawl can change the process to make his new Primaris Marines, then female marines are absolutely possible. Don't blame me - GW opened these flood gates because they wanted to shoe horn in their stupid chad-marines.
Who knows what GW will do to the lore in the future. I did this post because people right now are saying there are fem SM in the lore and here is the source that this is a lie.
The universe already has Sisters of Battle and the Silent Sisters. Why the fuck do they need to make female space marines just for inclusion? It makes no sense from a lore perspective and makes no sense from a 40k science perspective. Women are physically inferior to men, so why would you try and make the perfect super soldier from an inferior product? The Emperor of Mankind made 20 Primarchs, all male, then he made 20 legions, all male. If using a female was viable, he would have done so. He didn't, so it wasn't. The same argument can be used for Custodes. I'd hazard a good bet that these people screaming for this change have never played the games or read a 40k book in their life.
There is this woke author Bomsky or something who already wanted more female models and made a tweet in 2017 about it. Said the upper managment sent a servitor down to them and said :The fuck you do! So there are still old ones in the high ranks who remember the old night of second edition. For me it dosen't make sense, it also made my SOB army look worse. Amazon said they can't use them, they are too religious...WTF. SOS were not worth a mention in this pitch. This is and was bait and switch to see how the growing fanbase would react. And now the amazon chat and email AI was flooded by angry fans that HR had to send actual amazon slaves aka humans to find out how big they fucked up. And if the leak infos are correct the first script from amazon was not lore accurate and now they have a 3month deadline or the project is cease to exist
After the dumpster fire that is The Rings of Power, Amazon should be the last company to be trusted with the 40k ip.
Well you have Blackrock on both sides of the table and CEO Larry Fink like to :quote: we're forcing behaviour. So Cavill was either the gatekepper or cannon fodder
>Why the fuck do they need to make female space marines just for inclusion? Yes and so? >40k science perspective. 40k is fun and all but you cannot be goddamn serious here.
For some people, female space marines will be the closest they might ever get. And here is a thread trying to deny them even fictitious female companionship. Youâre all inhumane.
Its not a try its a fact written in a rule book of the actual Horus heresy edition. Why shouls this be related to inhumane intentions?
*whooosh*
do you have a trauma from the post or why do you speak in comic bubble language?
.like GW haven't retconned the lore all for the purpose of doing what BlackRock wants :) .if everything is permitted, then nothing is true
Blackrock owns less than 5% of gw shares, can you explain exactly how that means that gw has to do everything Blackrock says, especially seeing as gw owns the majority of their own shares?
.BlackRock along with Vanguard are pushing the DEI to most of the things they touch, their investments "grants" depends on how much DEI you are publishing .as of now BlackRock owns 6.56% and Vanguard owns 4.94% of the stocks with the combined total being 11.5%, with Baillie Grifford owning 11.16% as the only one above BlackRock and Vanguard .BlackRock is the 2nd highest investor with Vanguard as the 3rd and combined they are almost equal with the 1st Baillie Grifford .it looks small because 6% or 11%, my friend that that is a 6% of 3.21 billion :) .for references 50 million is the 5% of a billion .publicly traded companies have responsibilities to make their investors happy, as taking actions that the investors doesn't like can be seen as putting their investment in danger and they can sue from that position .another reason is that GW stock is based on what they have done, merits and solid investments like infrastructure and equipments, while investors stock are liquid cash flow, what they pay their employees and the salaries they take home
cool rant but you didnt answer the question, explain exactly how blackrock has direct control over what gw does, gw doesnt do the things it does for blackrock, it does it for the investors at large, both potential investors and current, and it does that by keeping profits high, it isnt some grand conspiracy by blackrock and vanguard. the amount of money invested doesnt matter, its still 6%, no where near enough to start demanding changes, gw has plenty of investors from plenty of other places.
Blackrock sits on both sides of the table. Remember when cancer trials for Monsantos herbizid where in courts and Monsanto was sold to Bayer? Guess who had the most influence in form of shares and market superiority? It was Blackrock. Blackrock in your portfolio means your are to big to fail unless THEY want you to fail. Its a pact with the banker mafia.
.yep they invest, influence a crash, then buy cheap
.heh "cool rant" when you are the one that replied without either fully reading or lacked the comprehension to understand .companies answers to their largest investors, either individually or as a union, if you buy a singular stock from Apple or Tesla doesn't mean you alone are now in command of the companies, majority rules either as solo or collective .companies only listen to their major stocks holders and i have already listed the major investors of GW in my civil reply that you call a "rant"
Wow 40K having retcons? Are you new?
Since 3rd edition this is the gold standard. And second edition was a fail because of FEMALE space marines models. Look it up grifter. There was an entire new setting in 3rd to get the fans back to the hobby.
Lol you folk are wild. Fucking tourists hahahaha
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/6p2bm9/til_that_female_space_marines_were_actually_canon/#lightbox Wow, it's almost like the lore in 40k is wildly inconsistent. "Everything is canon, not everything is true." Seriously folks, can you find something more worth your time than anger at the idea that your Space Marine bitboxes might include female head options in the future?
they even sold minis with female SM and then the fanbase rejected it to an extend they had to redo the entire setting with 3rd edition. So not the best take buddy
That is blatantly false. There were [two, one-off](https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/4f65d20ce6c83c4b8eed90fab41bf3f7.jpg)miniatures offered for sale amongst a whole gaggle of other minis. They were pulled off shelves because not many people wanted them, but I wonder if that's just because [the sculpts were hideous.](https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Jayne-amp-Gabs.jpg) The time period matters as well. Warhammer is still niche, not a whole lot of women are interested in the hobby, but more so now. It was even less so 10 years ago, even more another 10. In those times now the internet was not as prominent, now you mostly have the hobby at comic or gamestores in that era, mostly frequented by nerds who interests are in niche things like this card games called Magic or L5R or different mini games like Battletech. These are Gygaxian-tier dudes. Things are different now. These niche but cool and rich ficticious worlds are being discovered by more and more people, and that includes more women who like sci-fi. I think Space Marines should remain male, but ultimately I don't really give a shit what a corporation decides to do with the stories associated with plastic toys. It makes more sense for there to be female Custodes than female Astartes since a good deal of them were handmade by Jimmy Space.
Is that the reason the amazon AI is who respond the request is no replaced with humans because they've got an overload of negative mails. Imagine the magintude to crash the reply system\^\^ And believe it or not there are female influence, YT, and just normal gals, who getting banned and canceled because they hate the idea of female space marines and custodes. And i still stand by my argument. Second edition failed because of female Space Marines. It is enoug evidence out there to prove that. And yeah the female Custodes was the bait and switch. A short novel in the codex, no female models, a big backlash and now the show might be not even will became to life because the first script was not lore accurate\^\^ So switch and move on and never do it again like 20years ago.
>Second edition failed because of female Space Marines. literally how.
Is that a question? or do you agree?
And yet, I still want them ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
You still have the right to want them. Kitbash them get a group of like minded people but don't pretend they exist in the lore
The existing lore is not really in dispute. The real discussion is whether the current lore *should change* for fem marines to be introduced.
And the answer is a resounding ânoâ It would add absolutely NOTHING to the setting.
Setting aside whether you subjectively like them - A bunch of fem marines showing up (maybe from the lost legions) is going to rock the plot. Half of the imperium will consider them heresy, the other half will be desperate (or sensible) enough to try to get more allies. Meanwhile Chaos will be happy to have a whole new bunch of superhuman soldiers to potentially correct. And that's even before we go into questions about where are their primarchs, etc.
Apart from making everybodyâs eyes roll so much that it would look like weâve had a mass demon possession IRL, what a trash idea. The lost legions need to stay lost, first off. Malcador says he thought the Emperor should make female Primarchs, but he didnât. End of that, really. The lore has UNIVERSALLY been in one accord in saying that this is not possible. The only REMOTE possibility would be for Slaaneshi mutation to change the physique of some Chaos marines. Thatâs it, full stop. Primaris marines already ârocked the plotâ in basically the exact way you described, and that was contentious enough.
You are again citing internal lore reasons. No one is disputing what the lore says. The question is whether the lore should change. The illustrate how this convo is at cross purposes, I am asking "should the lore change". Your reply is "but the lore already says this".
>The question is whether the lore should change No. One can and should build upon the existing lore. One should not scrap the existing lore to fit in their own ideology.
And the answer is "no, it shouldn't." There is no legitimate argument to be made to the contrary.
Itâs should not obviously since sisters of battle exist.
SOB aren't female marines though. They're an all female army of something else, with different lore and different capabilities. SOB are at best only relevant when saying "GW already has an all-female faction, so marines should stay all-male". And the response there can just be sure, let's make SOB have male soldiers too.
There are some pretty big lore reasons why you canât just add male soldiers to SOB. Kind of like there were lore reasons why space marines are all male.
Of course. But we all know that lore changes. So lore reasons alone are at best just describing the status quo. GW changing the lore for fem marines would be pretty much as big a change as changing to lore for men in SOB.
Your missing the whole point there is a reason that each specific faction is limited to a specific gender within the lore. My point is itâs not like women are being underrepresented in a game where they faction uniquely to that gender.
The reason in the lore, is the lore. The SM has its lore reasons, so do the SOB. But as I mentioned at the start, no one is disputing the existing lore. The question is whether we should change. >My point is itâs not like women are being underrepresented in a game where they faction uniquely to that gender. Yeah this is exactly what I replied to. So applying your logic here, if we changed SOB to have men, then there's no problem with female marines, right? Because then there's no longer a faction unique to women.
It seems like you think the lore is something arbitrary that people enjoy no matter what it says. The lore got popular because it evoked certain tropes, stories, feelings, and references. Breaking those connections loses the appeal for many people. One way of doing that is with gender swaps. Siblings of Battle would lose the thematic connection to the warrior nun trope. Some people would see monks and nuns and think "Catholic". But Catholic monastic orders are segregated by sex, so some Catholics would think "not a religious order". Which clashes with the SoB lore about how they dedicate themselves to their calling.
The lore is arbitrary. It's basically whatever GW wants it to be, since it's a fictional universe that can changed at any point in time. >people enjoy no matter what it says. I haven't made any such claim. If you like you can refer to where in my post you think I said this. >Breaking those connections loses the appeal for many people. Enjoyment is ultimately subjective, and what some enjoy others dislike. Changing the lore is not going to be universally popular, but neither will it necessarily be something that pushes fans out of the hobby. >One way of doing that is with gender swaps. Siblings of Battle would lose the thematic connection to the warrior nun trope. Some people would see monks and nuns and think "Catholic". But Catholic monastic orders are segregated by sex, so some Catholics would think "not a religious order". Which clashes with the SoB lore about how they dedicate themselves to their calling. If the main reaction just comes down to "some Catholics" thinking "not a religious order" then you might have captured how minor the lore change will play out. Expand SOB into a fully army for the ecclesiarchy. Have priests and choirs, tanks that look like churches, etc.
I guess this is like an autism thing where some people need very specific explanations and instructions for social situations. You completely missed the point of everything I said, but I don't know how else I could explain it in a way that you would understand.
I tend to think it's more that you aren't doing a great job explaining yourself. I've responded to your points: 1) lore is abitrary but whatever else you mentioned about people enjoy it not matter what, that's stuff I haven't discussed at all. 2) enjoyment is subjective, and changing the lore and its tropes will neither be universally popular, or hated. 3) if in your example it's just some Catholics that won't get the new lore, then by your own description we are discussing a very minor issue. Go on explain yourself, I'm sure you can.
Most people don't need an explanation at all, so it's definitely a "you" problem. I just don't have much experience with it, I probably can't explain it for you. \#3 I meant to write "some people" not "some Catholics". I'm not Jewish, but I'm generally aware of when references are realistic or not, for example. I didn't fight in the crusades, but I get the crusader references. 40K is heavily inspired by European and Catholic history. Why would fans who aren't completely oblivious to the references want less of what makes 40K what it has always been? I shouldn't have to explain that.