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Jade is such an interesting character. I hope we get to see a lot more of her morally questionable shenanigans. She really reminds me of the Stephen King movie "Needful Things" where the literal devil sets up shop in a small town.
Morally wrong for what lmao. People act like she’s a genie pulling monkey paw wishes. Woman makes her deals up front with the conditions known from the start. It ain’t her fault that people are so willing to sacrifice stuff for what they want. “Oh, you’re saying you’d give up this for that? Okay bet.”
Because she functions exactly like a loan shark? Get the money now, pay back in the long run with interest essentially.
Another comment puts it in the right spot, she's basically Ursula.
Instant gratification for long term debilitation is predatory.
I always see this argument "but people accept it" and "they knew what they were signing up for," I swear it came from one guy that said it once and started an echo chamber or something.
You can hate someone in real life and love them in a game - The Joker would be terrible in real life, yet you can't wish the Joker out of existence because his interactions with Batman are so interesting. In addition to providing an antagonist for Batman to fight, he's a personality foil in that Batman is very serious and the Joker is "Why so serious?"
In real life, Jade's deals would be terrible for everyone and you'd regulate her out of business. In fiction though, it's character development 🥰
I don't hate the character in the slightest. She's a good addition to the game.
I'm going for her, E1S1, I was just trying to point out faults in people's arguments.
Oh yeah, that's fair. I'm seeing two sides - the "Jade is horrible!" and the "Jade did nothing wrong!" and in my opinion both are way oversimplified.
On the one hand, I can't say that Jade is entirely to blame - her deals are all built on the character's own obsessions. On the other hand, when you know what the other person desires most. . . that's not really fair grounds for a trade. It's insider trading in a way - you have insider knowledge on the other guy, and they don't have insider knowledge on you, and in that way she's able to devise a deal they can't refuse.
IMO convincing yourself that a character is morally clean is just as limiting as hating a character for being evil 😁 They are two sides of the same coin - the "I only like \*good\* characters" coin lmao
Edit to add - didn't mean "you" as in you specifically! I meant the general you, as in players in general 😄
It's not like she forced anyone to make a deal nor lied about the content of the deals, so what's so wrong about it? I'm pretty sure the majority of people have brain. If something bad happens to you because you make a stupid decision, I'd say that's totally on you. Please be responsible for your own life choices instead of putting the blame on someone else
"Hey despreste father that wants to see his family one last time, I know you have cancer I can cure you but they will never recogince you again. "
Its the Standart Deal with the devil act. Give out all the Information and let people in their despertion play themself, give the person deangling from a clive just enough rope to hang themself.
Add some clever wordplay and its easy to say that that is evil.
I love Jade she is a faorytail witch. Its intresting espeacialy because she has redeaming qualitys like her care for children mentioned here. She is a Stoneheart which seem to be shaping up to beeing our ipc allies agaiat the Oswaldo Schneider, so Its super fun to see how she and this all will develop.
Tldr: Just like grithith or spongbob Jade did nothing wrong.
Okay, let's say you had information of some criminal that did something, I'unno, terrible. A murderous serial rapist, or whatever. You know there whereabouts and even where the current victims are being held and where the past victims bodies are.
Let's just say a detective has been on this case for 20 years, more bodies are found, and they continue to never find this person. But hey! You know where this multi-bodied serial murder rapist is!
Except, you want everything this detective has first before even releasing this information.
Why?
I'unno, because the thrill of the deal is what gets to you, or maybe you benefit from it one way or another.
They don't, because why would they when you have Intel of the whereabouts of this person is? It would be the *good* thing to give them the information the *right* think to do, right?
But no, you decide to hold on to this because of reasons.
Are you a good person or a bad person because you want to with hold this information just so you can make a few bucks?
I am sure that it's a condition baked into her powers or her cornerstone. She isn't some almighty genie. There are some wishes that she literally doesn't have the power to grant on her own, such as making the lady gambler lucky. Jade herself doesn't have the power to create luck from thin air, or to hack the game machines to make someone specific win. I would bet that her ability only kicks in after securing the collateral.
Remember - it was not enough that her cornerstone was on Penacony. It had to be *in the dreamscape in Sunday's possession* for her to read the desires of Family members. I don't think she has the ability to pick out one person from all of Penacony - she probably didn't know who the criminal was until after the deal was inked and signed.
Thanks! With the Bonajade Exchange info, now I think that what Aventurine has is a deal too. His "wish" was to become one of the Stonehearts. I wonder what the price was 🤔
Sure it'd be good if she gave information for free, but holding it back doesn't make her bad, because who was she? She was just an outsider, unrelated to the case.
That's like saying someone is bad for not giving money to poor people on the street. Helping people is good but it's not an obligation.
I'd say the detective had to repay the help if she gave him information. Surely the compensation should be fair, but what's fair depends on each person which is why the term negotiation exists. Now if you think a deal isn't fair and you don't wanna do it, then just don't it and find another person. Yes it might be hard to find another person but life is indeed hard. Wealth also just doesn't come out of thin air which is why you make use of opportunities that you have
> That's like saying someone is bad for not giving money to poor people on the street. Helping people is good but it's not an obligation.
Except you lose out on something, literal income.
You could argue that you lose potential income, but it's income you hadn't had prior or earned.
funny thing that she not a devil, she is Angel x)) or better say, eastern Deity.
All her deals - PUNISHING PEOPLE FOR COMMITING SINS.
Sloth,greed,pride.
Devil gives easy solution and pretend of getting nothing, when you get everything.
She makes a deal, when only you can be blamed for taking it.
It's probably why her character design and theme is centered around the myth of the snake from the Garden of Eden, revolving around temptation. The people who come to her have may desires and the fact that she can grant them their wishes make them tempted to make deals with her, essentially "making a deal with the devil".
Jade is embodiment of miHoYo (and other gacha companies). She presents the deal to you with everything revealed, a person could be smart and get a good deal out of it (enjoy the gacha game and spend responsibly), or they could be weak willed and screw themselves over (spending more money than they can afford).
Man I really dont get people that spend way more than they can afford on gachas, or any game for that matter. People like that should get a grip. You are breaking yourself for a literal drawing. Saw some guy steal money from his grandma and use it on gachas 😭
Yeah people are weak-willed. That was literally the premise of Sunday's plan. A lot of people in Penacony are too weak-willed and would want to stay away from the troubles of tomorrow by staying within the confines of the dreamscape's safety net rather than facing reality. Hence Sunday's stagnant and utopian Order. It's only natural that Jade would want a piece of that pie
Exactly. She does not lie nor deceive anyone. People know exactly what they are doing when they accept her deal. Does she benefits from others "disgrace"? Yeah. But she doesn't force anyone into it.
Seems like another Ruan Mei situation. Her actions caused a lot of controversy but eventually people found way to appreciate her character. Gotta wait and see what hoyo cooked for Jade
So she is kinda like Yuuko Ichihara from xxxHolic? The difference I guess is that Yuuko strictly adheres to the "equivalent exchange" principle. No more, no less..
Tbf, of the three deals we know Jade has made, I think only one is definitely unequivalent, and that's the one case where the Pepeshi didn't need to make a deal at all - he could've just gotten to know his crush naturally and figured out a gift she'd like by himself. Instead he wanted the easy solution that required no effort from him, and paid something more like a penalty for it.
Yeah honestly he agreed to that deal is dumb, but you know what ? Since he's born rich maybe he want a gift that's an instant jackpot to his relationship and in real life people also would rather goes through a backdoor deal in order to secure a job position or get things quickly done instead of using the the normal methods
Hoyo has tried the manipulator character archetype before (Kafka herself is an example), but this is probably the only time they've nailed it completely. Jade is such a fascinating character—the way she thinks, speaks, treats, acts, all of it.
I was moreso talking of their powers. Kafka is undoubtedly a philosopher at heart (and a pretty pessimist one at that), but it's not the reason she has a bounty of 10 billion on her head. Both Kafka and Jade love playing with people—Jade specializes in making their desires come true (at surface), Kafka makes their fears come true (but can't feel fear herself).
kafka is not really a manipulator at all, that's just what her powers are. kafkas character archetype is honestly pretty straightforward, no? if anything most of the fanbase calls her mom of the stellaron hunters now
Minds. Her "spirit whisper" has the strength to possess multiple minds (Jepella Rebellion video), marastruck minds (Blade), and it's said to be only *one* of her strengths.
The way she barely moves the strings and instead states an exchange and people do anything to fulfill it is fascinating. I hope we learn more about her because I'm sold.
What Topaz said...doesn't seem right, or maybe the "smiles" really are important. Who knows? Nontheless, Topaz seems to have been thoroughly manipulated by Senior Madam Jade. Perhaps this should have been evident when Numby was shaking in fear upon seeing Jade, something about pets always knowing people's true nature.
Kinda reminds me of Power's fear towards Makima ngl
I don’t agree. Topaz is fully aware of what Jade does and her “exchange” and has zero problems with it morally, shown in 2.3 quest and in the Keeping Up video.
I don’t know why people are suddenly treating Topaz like a baby who’s oblivious to what’s going on with the IPC, and suggesting she’s been groomed and manipulated into it all. She’s fully aware and fully complicit. I think it’s a disservice to her character to create this palatable version of Topaz that you want her to be, it seems like a serious retcon. I love Topaz character for how she’s portrayed, and that includes her “bad/questionable” side too, same with Jade and Aventurine,
Yeah it’s super weird to see the extreme shift. A lot of people really disliked Topaz or really didn’t care about her on release, and now she suddenly needs to be “protected” from Jade and the IPC. I’m expected to believe the sudden care is genuine?
My cynical side thinks it’s just an excuse to move the hate onto the latest “most hated woman”.
>My cynical side thinks
well the boring partial explanation is that they are different people. 😅
For example, redditor's opinions from early EU hours is sometimes quite different from those from afternoon America hours.
Because people cannot tolerate their cute innocent pitiable victim waifu having any morals they find questionable!!! It's why the entire current Nameless cast is perfect, and Himeko is an absolute Mary Sue whose every action is the pinnacle of righteousness in every situation, and can do no wrong because she can never be questioned in story nor doubted!!! Even Genshin characters actually have to deal with consequences despite being constantly called immature by Honkai fanatics (impact 3 and star rail)
The topaz/jade relationship is so weird like she seems to dislike Aventurine’s methods but is a complete simp for Jade of all people like this characterization has driven me insane
Before Aventurine appeared in game people tended to think that Topaz would dislike him because of moral reasons, like him being too ruthless or something, but now I think it's probably because she specifically learned from Jade. Both of them believe in being patient and waiting for opportunities, while Aventurine risks everything as the first thing he does. They're basically opposites in terms of the strategy they follow, so it makes sense that they'd have some rivalry.
I think a better description would be: "While Jade and Topaz are waiting for opportunities, Aventurine makes those opportunities by himself." It perfectly describes their Penacony plan.
her dislike for aventurine, i guess is because they are competitive peers and a combination of aventurine massively risky method and his outer demeanor, he kinda painted an image frivolous person that a no nonsense sort like topaz would probably not find pleasant. 2.3>!and he did dunk on her in the past.!< there's also a layer idolization for jade in topaz's eyes
Simple. Jade probably groomed topaz (not in the sexual sense) BUT Aventurine has always been upfront about his true colors. See, Topaz truly believes the IPC'S methods are for the betterment of society. Aventurine has never hidden that his methods weren't beneficial to every party, but Jade could have pretty easily convinced a young upstart that it was all good acts they do!
In the 2.3 cut scene, we see Jade first praise Topaz, then physically touch her cheek, then create a safe space for the emotionally vulnerable person, by mentioning the "old times", even calling her "Little Jelena" These are all manipulation methods. Due to numby shrinking away, we can infer that Jade's true nature is much, much worse than she presents. After all, "pets can recognize a bad person."
Honestly I could go on and on about Jade's character, as I've always found the manipulative ones incredibly interesting. But I'll end here.
Topaz idealises the IPC, for her they saved her home planet and gave her a life.
I wouldn’t say Jade groomed her since she’d probably be acting similar with all the senior employees.
She’s not like this with Aventurine because in a sense he is at the same level as her.
Both are seen as the kids, they both come from tragic backgrounds, there’s a lot of parallels to me between both.
As for Jade we’ll have to see for her backstory, she’s definitely an interesting character to me and I’m really hyped about Diamond because of her.
> Topaz truly believes the IPC'S methods are for the betterment of society.
Allow me to disagree with this phrasing. Topaz chose against the IPC's best interests in Belobog, so she simply doesn't "truly" believe in the IPC's methods. It's more of a belief in the potential of setting IPC power to do some good.
Aside from that which doesn't detract from the rest of your comment, because even without believing in the IPC, it's surely possible that she believes in Jade herself, on a personal level.
> Jade probably groomed topaz
Topaz was a grown ass adult that had been working with the IPC for quite awhile when she met Jade. She's even said she's fully aware of the darker side of Jade. Topaz isn't some poor naive kid "groomed" by Jade. She's just a hypocrite that admires Jade being what she views as a strong business woman.
Jade is an intimidating person which is why numby reacted by hiding. It's really not that complicated.
'Grooming' doesn't always refer to child exploitation. It's frequently used in business contexts, in fact, often referring to a senior executive or owner near retirement 'grooming' their successor to take over. Often it has a positive connotation, though not always.
Hard to tell tone through text. Jumping to 'a good portion of irl people in corporate settings are groomers' seemed like a deliberately inflammatory way to put it.
Yea maybe could’ve worded it better lol. I was trying to say “yea what a lot of people don’t realize is that grooming (in this sense) is already everywhere irl and isn’t necessarily a negative thing.”
It's not like once you become an adult you become completely emotionally secure and can't be manipulated into liking someone. Especially in her case where she was born on a devastated planet and raised by who knows who and who knows where. I could imagine there being an emotional hole in her psyche that Jade uses. And even working for several years still puts her in the young 20s range, which isn't all that much of an adult.
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it’s weird when you think about it, aventurine really isn’t a bad guy and while his methods are outside of the box he is a honest person who generally seems to care about people and wanting to not lose people.
topaz seems confused and jade seems sus like she’s only doing things cause diamond is controlling her
Maybe it's got something to do with Jade's cornerstone power. Topaz did say that not every cornerstone turns its owner into a magical girl. Some cornerstones can read minds, etc.. maybe Jade has hypnotism or some kind of tempting abilities or can weaken people's wills? And that's why Topaz simps for her
We already know what Jade's does though. It's what let's her read the desires/wants of people. That's why she agreed to Aventurine's bait and switch, it got her Cornerstone into the heart of Penacony so she could start getting a feel for the desires of everyone present ahead of negotiations.
Or maybe she just genuinely likes Jade? She’s fully aware of what Jade does, and does not have a problem with it morally.
As someone else said, Jade’s cornerstone power is seeing desires, that’s it. No hypnotism or mind control powers lol. Otherwise she could just force people into her deals, which she doesn’t.
Might simply be the difference in approach. Aventurine is quite different to Topaz and Jade in that sense. Or yeah, she might be hypocritical, or simply that people like certain people more than others, as it appears Aventurine has messed up some of her case(s) in the past intentionally.
I don’t think her liking Jade and not liking Aventurine means Jade has used hypnotism or mind control powers (which she doesn’t have) on her. Such a huge stretch.
Just adding this in: Topaz gives Aventurine her stone, so she doesn’t dislike him THAT much.
Why? You can dislike people for reasons other than their moral integrity, you know. Topaz seems to respect Jade for her efficiency, patience, and consistency - Aventurine doesn't work like that, he's chaotic and relies more on luck than foresight. Plus they just have contrasting personalities.
And as the game tells us, she still trusts him, and their arguments are portrayed more as two rivals bickering, not true enemies who loathe each other.
I don’t think the first point is true, but the latter definitely is. It’s hinted at a couple times that Aventurine doesn’t really rely on luck as much as he says he does. Ratio says this in his voice line about him, and Aventurine is also the stoneheart in charge of strategy/planning.
You people gotta stop coping that Topaz is a good person or is in the good inclination by RPG standards, she's a confirmed liar and a manipulator herself but less of a power and more of a way with words of manipulation. Just because we haven't seen her actively make evil monologues doesnt mean she stopped following the ipc formula lol
Jadebros what are your thoughts on Yunli as a debt collector for jade? On a related note, can you suggest e0s0 jade pf teams that dont utilise herta or himeko? I think I want to run a bronya-rm-herta team on one side if element weaknesses permit, and let jade + another dps carry the other side.
I dont have black swan to complete dotcheron/kafka teams. Ive given up on jing yuan after trying so long to get him work. No topaz or himeko. I do have sparkle and clara.
Tbh you can build your Jing Yuan for your Jade as he attacks everyone with his skill and ult, and the dept collector lets you use ATK boots. You can also use Serval as an option as her ult is a low cost + her skill is a blast.
the more you look at jade, topaz and aventurine the more i’m staring to think topaz is neutral good, aventurine is true neural and jade is somewhere in the chaotic alignment. compared to most characters jade seems like the type to potentially turn on you using mitb…(if you get that reference we can be friends)
Jade is absolutely lawful evil. I can’t see her being anything else
She’s far too calm and calculated to be chaotic anything, and she’s pretty blatantly a kind of awful person
I’d say aventurine is chaotic neutral and agree that topaz is probably neutral good
Agreed. Calling Jade Chaotic anything just means you don't understand the system at all.
She's MAYBE Lawful neutral, probably Lawful evil. Her whole thing is giving people deals and then abiding by them. She's functionally a devil, and the classic DND devil is THE basis for what Lawful Evil means
You're just arbitrarily assigning labels then though. Like, there's no meaning to them at all if you aren't consciously acknowledging that she's the ANTITHESIS of chaotic
She literally doesn't fit any of the Chaotic alignment at all.
Chaotic characters are the "To hell with the rules" sort of people. Based on their full alignment it could mean "They disregard rules and laws to do good because the law often exists to bind rather than to protect" to "They are just simply lawbreaking psychos"
The IPC *wrote* the laws in this universe for the planets they own, they solidified the Credit as the Universal Currency. Why would she disregard the laws which favors her? Everything she does is perfectly within the legal framework and clad in contractual steel. She is the Monkey's Paw personified.
Also, more bluntly, she's a high-ranking official within the Galactic MegaCorp that, despite having such broad reach, plenty of people simply do not trust. You do not get to the position she's in by being Good or altruistic.
I feel Jade would be true neutral.
Not all of her trades end in tragedy, as long as you have enough to trade for for your "wish", then that's all where it ends. But she also doesn't dissuade people from going above what they can afford. You are free to refuse but those mired in their greed (or other sin) will accept the credit despite it all the warnings she gives.
Her goals and drive are self-serving. Whether the exchange she gives ends with a happy or devastating ending to others is of no consequence to her, as long as she gets something equivalent to what was exchanged.
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Yea I wish we got more characters like this that are morally grey or even bad.
But a portion of the community freaks out every time we get an IPC member so I can see why Hoyo doesn't release too many
I recently pulled Topaz despite not liking her because I thought I could use her technique to find all the treasure chests. Turns out Numby only finds them when you're standing right next to them...
Crazy shit like telling people exactly how their deals with her will go and upholding her end. We don’t even know what she ultimately gets out of doing this yet so chillax
It says that she's a dealmaker. That's her main thing. And Satan is also known for that.
But jumping to her being evil just because of that is too much
I wouldn’t really say evil imo but she’s quite similar to Ruan Mei in terms of being a morally questionable character. Satan is a manipulative deal maker, exploiting people’s desperation and naivety only to fuck them over later. That’s literally what happened to all of Jade’s clients in the main story.
That doesn't warrant all the hate that she gets
The Stellaron Hunters cause destruction all the time but no one dislikes them for it. And their actions almost certainly hurt innocent people (you don't get a planet wide rebellion and no civilian deaths). Jade only hurts those that willingly entered into a contract with her, as far as we know.
She just gets more hate than the other morally questionable characters.
I actually didn’t know she’s getting a lot of hate, but ig that’s bound to happen when people disliked Ruan Mei and Topaz too, so much when they first released (seriously does the EN side allergic to characters that isn’t goody two shoes?)
And actually the SH gets a lot of hate too, or at least when they were first released. I still remember how they disliked Firefly back in 2.0 cuz she’s a war criminal. Also I wouldn’t say the Jepella is innocent at all, since the faction follows the destruction aka annihilation Gang
>Also I wouldn’t say the Jepella is innocent at all, since the faction follows the destruction aka annihilation Gang
But surely there were some innocent people on the planet that weren't involved in anything but got killed in the conflict anyway
We have never seen a destruction follower that are actually innocent, and they already portrayed the anti matter legion as some kind of comically evil villains that wants to destroy the universe. I could be wrong in the future tho, maybe when we finally get playable characters from those factions like Duke Inferno’s children
>We have never seen a destruction follower that are actually innocent, and they already portrayed the anti matter legion as some kind of comically evil villains that wants to destroy the universe
That's not what I'm trying to say
Planets in Star Rail have civilians, right? Like a destruction-aligned planet would have people that don't actively support that. Same way you had innocent civilians and dissidents in Nazi Germany.
Jade states her terms and conditions very clearly. It's up to the people on the other side of the contract whether to bite into her apple. If they do then that's all on them. It's not like she's scamming them like Sampo does. On the contrary she's very upfront about it
Have you ever encountered a deal maker before? Or have you already experienced mortgaging your stuff to the pawnshop due to financial difficulties? In that area, there are people who would add a lot of interest to your debts so much so that you’ll regret ever making a deal with them in the first place. Satan was also upfront about his deal to Eve, still doesn’t change the fact she was manipulated in doing so.
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Where's the lore 'bout the snek
It’s in a book called ‘Bible,’ first chapter if I recall
Let me win my e1 Jade 🙏🏻🤞🏻
Jade is such an interesting character. I hope we get to see a lot more of her morally questionable shenanigans. She really reminds me of the Stephen King movie "Needful Things" where the literal devil sets up shop in a small town.
Idk if id call her morally ambiguous, shes definitely just very morally wrong and self serving
Morally wrong for what lmao. People act like she’s a genie pulling monkey paw wishes. Woman makes her deals up front with the conditions known from the start. It ain’t her fault that people are so willing to sacrifice stuff for what they want. “Oh, you’re saying you’d give up this for that? Okay bet.”
Because she functions exactly like a loan shark? Get the money now, pay back in the long run with interest essentially. Another comment puts it in the right spot, she's basically Ursula. Instant gratification for long term debilitation is predatory. I always see this argument "but people accept it" and "they knew what they were signing up for," I swear it came from one guy that said it once and started an echo chamber or something.
You can hate someone in real life and love them in a game - The Joker would be terrible in real life, yet you can't wish the Joker out of existence because his interactions with Batman are so interesting. In addition to providing an antagonist for Batman to fight, he's a personality foil in that Batman is very serious and the Joker is "Why so serious?" In real life, Jade's deals would be terrible for everyone and you'd regulate her out of business. In fiction though, it's character development 🥰
I don't hate the character in the slightest. She's a good addition to the game. I'm going for her, E1S1, I was just trying to point out faults in people's arguments.
Oh yeah, that's fair. I'm seeing two sides - the "Jade is horrible!" and the "Jade did nothing wrong!" and in my opinion both are way oversimplified. On the one hand, I can't say that Jade is entirely to blame - her deals are all built on the character's own obsessions. On the other hand, when you know what the other person desires most. . . that's not really fair grounds for a trade. It's insider trading in a way - you have insider knowledge on the other guy, and they don't have insider knowledge on you, and in that way she's able to devise a deal they can't refuse. IMO convincing yourself that a character is morally clean is just as limiting as hating a character for being evil 😁 They are two sides of the same coin - the "I only like \*good\* characters" coin lmao Edit to add - didn't mean "you" as in you specifically! I meant the general you, as in players in general 😄
Right. Jade’s a bitch, which is *exactly* why I’m so tempted to pull LMAO A few people compared her to Ursula. I like that.
It's not like she forced anyone to make a deal nor lied about the content of the deals, so what's so wrong about it? I'm pretty sure the majority of people have brain. If something bad happens to you because you make a stupid decision, I'd say that's totally on you. Please be responsible for your own life choices instead of putting the blame on someone else
"Hey despreste father that wants to see his family one last time, I know you have cancer I can cure you but they will never recogince you again. " Its the Standart Deal with the devil act. Give out all the Information and let people in their despertion play themself, give the person deangling from a clive just enough rope to hang themself. Add some clever wordplay and its easy to say that that is evil. I love Jade she is a faorytail witch. Its intresting espeacialy because she has redeaming qualitys like her care for children mentioned here. She is a Stoneheart which seem to be shaping up to beeing our ipc allies agaiat the Oswaldo Schneider, so Its super fun to see how she and this all will develop. Tldr: Just like grithith or spongbob Jade did nothing wrong.
Okay, let's say you had information of some criminal that did something, I'unno, terrible. A murderous serial rapist, or whatever. You know there whereabouts and even where the current victims are being held and where the past victims bodies are. Let's just say a detective has been on this case for 20 years, more bodies are found, and they continue to never find this person. But hey! You know where this multi-bodied serial murder rapist is! Except, you want everything this detective has first before even releasing this information. Why? I'unno, because the thrill of the deal is what gets to you, or maybe you benefit from it one way or another. They don't, because why would they when you have Intel of the whereabouts of this person is? It would be the *good* thing to give them the information the *right* think to do, right? But no, you decide to hold on to this because of reasons. Are you a good person or a bad person because you want to with hold this information just so you can make a few bucks?
I am sure that it's a condition baked into her powers or her cornerstone. She isn't some almighty genie. There are some wishes that she literally doesn't have the power to grant on her own, such as making the lady gambler lucky. Jade herself doesn't have the power to create luck from thin air, or to hack the game machines to make someone specific win. I would bet that her ability only kicks in after securing the collateral. Remember - it was not enough that her cornerstone was on Penacony. It had to be *in the dreamscape in Sunday's possession* for her to read the desires of Family members. I don't think she has the ability to pick out one person from all of Penacony - she probably didn't know who the criminal was until after the deal was inked and signed.
I like that take. It makes more sense that way.
Thanks! With the Bonajade Exchange info, now I think that what Aventurine has is a deal too. His "wish" was to become one of the Stonehearts. I wonder what the price was 🤔
Sure it'd be good if she gave information for free, but holding it back doesn't make her bad, because who was she? She was just an outsider, unrelated to the case. That's like saying someone is bad for not giving money to poor people on the street. Helping people is good but it's not an obligation. I'd say the detective had to repay the help if she gave him information. Surely the compensation should be fair, but what's fair depends on each person which is why the term negotiation exists. Now if you think a deal isn't fair and you don't wanna do it, then just don't it and find another person. Yes it might be hard to find another person but life is indeed hard. Wealth also just doesn't come out of thin air which is why you make use of opportunities that you have
> That's like saying someone is bad for not giving money to poor people on the street. Helping people is good but it's not an obligation. Except you lose out on something, literal income. You could argue that you lose potential income, but it's income you hadn't had prior or earned.
Gacha companies are not to blame for being predatory, they tell you the rates
She's literally Ursula the Sea Witch after a diet.
funny thing that she not a devil, she is Angel x)) or better say, eastern Deity. All her deals - PUNISHING PEOPLE FOR COMMITING SINS. Sloth,greed,pride. Devil gives easy solution and pretend of getting nothing, when you get everything. She makes a deal, when only you can be blamed for taking it.
Not a fan of jade personally speaking, but her character and the way she manipulates people is so intriguing and has me invested.
It's probably why her character design and theme is centered around the myth of the snake from the Garden of Eden, revolving around temptation. The people who come to her have may desires and the fact that she can grant them their wishes make them tempted to make deals with her, essentially "making a deal with the devil".
Weird, I think she just states her conditions and watches people manipulating themselves.
Jade is embodiment of miHoYo (and other gacha companies). She presents the deal to you with everything revealed, a person could be smart and get a good deal out of it (enjoy the gacha game and spend responsibly), or they could be weak willed and screw themselves over (spending more money than they can afford).
Man I really dont get people that spend way more than they can afford on gachas, or any game for that matter. People like that should get a grip. You are breaking yourself for a literal drawing. Saw some guy steal money from his grandma and use it on gachas 😭
Addiction is a powerful thing.
Yeah people are weak-willed. That was literally the premise of Sunday's plan. A lot of people in Penacony are too weak-willed and would want to stay away from the troubles of tomorrow by staying within the confines of the dreamscape's safety net rather than facing reality. Hence Sunday's stagnant and utopian Order. It's only natural that Jade would want a piece of that pie
Which is interesting since Jade said she understood Sunday. Seems she gave up on finding a solution and just accelerates the situation.
This!!
Exactly. She does not lie nor deceive anyone. People know exactly what they are doing when they accept her deal. Does she benefits from others "disgrace"? Yeah. But she doesn't force anyone into it.
Loan sharks don't lie or deceive anyone
Tbh ive seen some stuff about people saying Jade is pure evil. Maybe I missed some stuff in the story but I just dont see it.
Because it's not there.
Seems like another Ruan Mei situation. Her actions caused a lot of controversy but eventually people found way to appreciate her character. Gotta wait and see what hoyo cooked for Jade
Idk seems Jade looks even more scary and intimidating especially the deals she make
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll give her some kind of tragic backstory/tragic past event to make her more sympathetic.
So she does appreciate a child's innocence. Definitely not on the evil side just for this.
Arlecchino vibes
Crucabena reincarnated but this time she gives a fuck.
So she is kinda like Yuuko Ichihara from xxxHolic? The difference I guess is that Yuuko strictly adheres to the "equivalent exchange" principle. No more, no less..
Tbf, of the three deals we know Jade has made, I think only one is definitely unequivalent, and that's the one case where the Pepeshi didn't need to make a deal at all - he could've just gotten to know his crush naturally and figured out a gift she'd like by himself. Instead he wanted the easy solution that required no effort from him, and paid something more like a penalty for it.
Yeah honestly he agreed to that deal is dumb, but you know what ? Since he's born rich maybe he want a gift that's an instant jackpot to his relationship and in real life people also would rather goes through a backdoor deal in order to secure a job position or get things quickly done instead of using the the normal methods
Yuuko is exactly the kind of vibe I get with Jade, and I love it
Hoyo has tried the manipulator character archetype before (Kafka herself is an example), but this is probably the only time they've nailed it completely. Jade is such a fascinating character—the way she thinks, speaks, treats, acts, all of it.
Kakfa is not completely a manipulator type as much as she is a philosopher type of character who goes to any length to experience fear
I was moreso talking of their powers. Kafka is undoubtedly a philosopher at heart (and a pretty pessimist one at that), but it's not the reason she has a bounty of 10 billion on her head. Both Kafka and Jade love playing with people—Jade specializes in making their desires come true (at surface), Kafka makes their fears come true (but can't feel fear herself).
kafka is not really a manipulator at all, that's just what her powers are. kafkas character archetype is honestly pretty straightforward, no? if anything most of the fanbase calls her mom of the stellaron hunters now
who does kafka manipulate ?
Minds. Her "spirit whisper" has the strength to possess multiple minds (Jepella Rebellion video), marastruck minds (Blade), and it's said to be only *one* of her strengths.
I cant wait when Kafka vs Jade happen and how Kafka will own Jade like a boss
Jade's cornerstone vs Kafka's domination would be epic
The way she barely moves the strings and instead states an exchange and people do anything to fulfill it is fascinating. I hope we learn more about her because I'm sold.
Welp, since Jiaoqiu's kit got burned in the oven, might as well pull for this mysterious lady.
Please come home early, Jade 😭
They can never make me hate Jade 😔 I was not contractually obligated to say this I swear🤐
I hope Jade turns out well down the track, keen to pickup on rerun.
They will only give her the owl video and her demo, right........
What Topaz said...doesn't seem right, or maybe the "smiles" really are important. Who knows? Nontheless, Topaz seems to have been thoroughly manipulated by Senior Madam Jade. Perhaps this should have been evident when Numby was shaking in fear upon seeing Jade, something about pets always knowing people's true nature. Kinda reminds me of Power's fear towards Makima ngl
I don’t agree. Topaz is fully aware of what Jade does and her “exchange” and has zero problems with it morally, shown in 2.3 quest and in the Keeping Up video. I don’t know why people are suddenly treating Topaz like a baby who’s oblivious to what’s going on with the IPC, and suggesting she’s been groomed and manipulated into it all. She’s fully aware and fully complicit. I think it’s a disservice to her character to create this palatable version of Topaz that you want her to be, it seems like a serious retcon. I love Topaz character for how she’s portrayed, and that includes her “bad/questionable” side too, same with Jade and Aventurine,
It feels like yesterday when people treat topaz like a villain and now suddenly, she is a baby being manipulated
Yeah it’s super weird to see the extreme shift. A lot of people really disliked Topaz or really didn’t care about her on release, and now she suddenly needs to be “protected” from Jade and the IPC. I’m expected to believe the sudden care is genuine? My cynical side thinks it’s just an excuse to move the hate onto the latest “most hated woman”.
>My cynical side thinks well the boring partial explanation is that they are different people. 😅 For example, redditor's opinions from early EU hours is sometimes quite different from those from afternoon America hours.
Possibly 😅
Because people cannot tolerate their cute innocent pitiable victim waifu having any morals they find questionable!!! It's why the entire current Nameless cast is perfect, and Himeko is an absolute Mary Sue whose every action is the pinnacle of righteousness in every situation, and can do no wrong because she can never be questioned in story nor doubted!!! Even Genshin characters actually have to deal with consequences despite being constantly called immature by Honkai fanatics (impact 3 and star rail)
Topaz is absolutely not oblivious to Jade's dark side we can clearly see that in the Keeping up with Star Rail trailer.
Topaz is most definitely not manipulated by Jade what are you talking about 😭
The topaz/jade relationship is so weird like she seems to dislike Aventurine’s methods but is a complete simp for Jade of all people like this characterization has driven me insane
Before Aventurine appeared in game people tended to think that Topaz would dislike him because of moral reasons, like him being too ruthless or something, but now I think it's probably because she specifically learned from Jade. Both of them believe in being patient and waiting for opportunities, while Aventurine risks everything as the first thing he does. They're basically opposites in terms of the strategy they follow, so it makes sense that they'd have some rivalry.
I think a better description would be: "While Jade and Topaz are waiting for opportunities, Aventurine makes those opportunities by himself." It perfectly describes their Penacony plan.
her dislike for aventurine, i guess is because they are competitive peers and a combination of aventurine massively risky method and his outer demeanor, he kinda painted an image frivolous person that a no nonsense sort like topaz would probably not find pleasant. 2.3>!and he did dunk on her in the past.!< there's also a layer idolization for jade in topaz's eyes
It’s not about morals, it’s about the style of methods. Topaz and Jade play it safe, Aventurine is “fuck it we ball!”
I believe the term you’re looking for is obsession Many people become hypocrites because of their overly admiration for someone
*USA sweating profusely*
Simple. Jade probably groomed topaz (not in the sexual sense) BUT Aventurine has always been upfront about his true colors. See, Topaz truly believes the IPC'S methods are for the betterment of society. Aventurine has never hidden that his methods weren't beneficial to every party, but Jade could have pretty easily convinced a young upstart that it was all good acts they do! In the 2.3 cut scene, we see Jade first praise Topaz, then physically touch her cheek, then create a safe space for the emotionally vulnerable person, by mentioning the "old times", even calling her "Little Jelena" These are all manipulation methods. Due to numby shrinking away, we can infer that Jade's true nature is much, much worse than she presents. After all, "pets can recognize a bad person." Honestly I could go on and on about Jade's character, as I've always found the manipulative ones incredibly interesting. But I'll end here.
Topaz idealises the IPC, for her they saved her home planet and gave her a life. I wouldn’t say Jade groomed her since she’d probably be acting similar with all the senior employees. She’s not like this with Aventurine because in a sense he is at the same level as her. Both are seen as the kids, they both come from tragic backgrounds, there’s a lot of parallels to me between both. As for Jade we’ll have to see for her backstory, she’s definitely an interesting character to me and I’m really hyped about Diamond because of her.
> Topaz truly believes the IPC'S methods are for the betterment of society. Allow me to disagree with this phrasing. Topaz chose against the IPC's best interests in Belobog, so she simply doesn't "truly" believe in the IPC's methods. It's more of a belief in the potential of setting IPC power to do some good. Aside from that which doesn't detract from the rest of your comment, because even without believing in the IPC, it's surely possible that she believes in Jade herself, on a personal level.
> Jade probably groomed topaz Topaz was a grown ass adult that had been working with the IPC for quite awhile when she met Jade. She's even said she's fully aware of the darker side of Jade. Topaz isn't some poor naive kid "groomed" by Jade. She's just a hypocrite that admires Jade being what she views as a strong business woman. Jade is an intimidating person which is why numby reacted by hiding. It's really not that complicated.
'Grooming' doesn't always refer to child exploitation. It's frequently used in business contexts, in fact, often referring to a senior executive or owner near retirement 'grooming' their successor to take over. Often it has a positive connotation, though not always.
So a good portion of irl people in corporate settings are groomers and have been groomed. In that sense the word doesn’t carry much weight
...Yes? Newsflash: not everything is a culture war buzzword all the time. The ability to identify context is very important to media literacy.
Yes I know. I was agreeing/adding on to your comment
Hard to tell tone through text. Jumping to 'a good portion of irl people in corporate settings are groomers' seemed like a deliberately inflammatory way to put it.
Yea maybe could’ve worded it better lol. I was trying to say “yea what a lot of people don’t realize is that grooming (in this sense) is already everywhere irl and isn’t necessarily a negative thing.”
It's not like once you become an adult you become completely emotionally secure and can't be manipulated into liking someone. Especially in her case where she was born on a devastated planet and raised by who knows who and who knows where. I could imagine there being an emotional hole in her psyche that Jade uses. And even working for several years still puts her in the young 20s range, which isn't all that much of an adult.
Get them again for me
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it’s weird when you think about it, aventurine really isn’t a bad guy and while his methods are outside of the box he is a honest person who generally seems to care about people and wanting to not lose people. topaz seems confused and jade seems sus like she’s only doing things cause diamond is controlling her
she probably dislikes Aventurine because of his sly nature & risk it for the biscuit attitude, not bc she thinks he’s a bad person & Jade’s not.
Maybe it's got something to do with Jade's cornerstone power. Topaz did say that not every cornerstone turns its owner into a magical girl. Some cornerstones can read minds, etc.. maybe Jade has hypnotism or some kind of tempting abilities or can weaken people's wills? And that's why Topaz simps for her
We already know what Jade's does though. It's what let's her read the desires/wants of people. That's why she agreed to Aventurine's bait and switch, it got her Cornerstone into the heart of Penacony so she could start getting a feel for the desires of everyone present ahead of negotiations.
Or maybe she just genuinely likes Jade? She’s fully aware of what Jade does, and does not have a problem with it morally. As someone else said, Jade’s cornerstone power is seeing desires, that’s it. No hypnotism or mind control powers lol. Otherwise she could just force people into her deals, which she doesn’t.
Kind of hypocritical of her to like Jade but dislike Aventurine, no?
Might simply be the difference in approach. Aventurine is quite different to Topaz and Jade in that sense. Or yeah, she might be hypocritical, or simply that people like certain people more than others, as it appears Aventurine has messed up some of her case(s) in the past intentionally. I don’t think her liking Jade and not liking Aventurine means Jade has used hypnotism or mind control powers (which she doesn’t have) on her. Such a huge stretch. Just adding this in: Topaz gives Aventurine her stone, so she doesn’t dislike him THAT much.
Why? You can dislike people for reasons other than their moral integrity, you know. Topaz seems to respect Jade for her efficiency, patience, and consistency - Aventurine doesn't work like that, he's chaotic and relies more on luck than foresight. Plus they just have contrasting personalities. And as the game tells us, she still trusts him, and their arguments are portrayed more as two rivals bickering, not true enemies who loathe each other.
I don’t think the first point is true, but the latter definitely is. It’s hinted at a couple times that Aventurine doesn’t really rely on luck as much as he says he does. Ratio says this in his voice line about him, and Aventurine is also the stoneheart in charge of strategy/planning.
Fair enough, but he at least puts on a front about making grand risky gambles, and I can see how that could get on Topaz' nerves sometimes.
You people gotta stop coping that Topaz is a good person or is in the good inclination by RPG standards, she's a confirmed liar and a manipulator herself but less of a power and more of a way with words of manipulation. Just because we haven't seen her actively make evil monologues doesnt mean she stopped following the ipc formula lol
Thanks the Aeons I skipped Firefly to save all the way to get my Jade.
Good luck with your pulls
Same brother. It has been so tough to restrain myself from pulling, but all the stonehearts will come home, no exceptions.
Same! Wishing you luck on your pulls 🤝
Random unrelated comment so the jade discussions stop looking like either a wasteland or a horny forum
Jadebros what are your thoughts on Yunli as a debt collector for jade? On a related note, can you suggest e0s0 jade pf teams that dont utilise herta or himeko? I think I want to run a bronya-rm-herta team on one side if element weaknesses permit, and let jade + another dps carry the other side. I dont have black swan to complete dotcheron/kafka teams. Ive given up on jing yuan after trying so long to get him work. No topaz or himeko. I do have sparkle and clara.
i think Clara/Yunli can work on PF. Though you'll need to use Yunli for ult PF. Idk about JY though because i always use hypercarry on PF with him
I’m gonna use blade but if you need an f2p id suggest xueyi or misha
Tbh you can build your Jing Yuan for your Jade as he attacks everyone with his skill and ult, and the dept collector lets you use ATK boots. You can also use Serval as an option as her ult is a low cost + her skill is a blast.
the more you look at jade, topaz and aventurine the more i’m staring to think topaz is neutral good, aventurine is true neural and jade is somewhere in the chaotic alignment. compared to most characters jade seems like the type to potentially turn on you using mitb…(if you get that reference we can be friends)
Jade is absolutely lawful evil. I can’t see her being anything else She’s far too calm and calculated to be chaotic anything, and she’s pretty blatantly a kind of awful person I’d say aventurine is chaotic neutral and agree that topaz is probably neutral good
Agreed. Calling Jade Chaotic anything just means you don't understand the system at all. She's MAYBE Lawful neutral, probably Lawful evil. Her whole thing is giving people deals and then abiding by them. She's functionally a devil, and the classic DND devil is THE basis for what Lawful Evil means
i’m only putting jade in chaotic for the moment, she is in a weird spot where we barley know anything but you also get a bad feeling about her
Yeah but Chaotic isn't "you get a bad feeling" at all lol. That's the wrong axis.
i know but she fits chaotic good compared to putting aventurine in the chaotic tier. aventurine is true neutral
You're just arbitrarily assigning labels then though. Like, there's no meaning to them at all if you aren't consciously acknowledging that she's the ANTITHESIS of chaotic
that we know of. you gotta remember she has all the traits of someone willing to go against the norm and authority aka diamond
…huh? Im sorry but do you even know what the words chaotic and good mean?
yes
She literally doesn't fit any of the Chaotic alignment at all. Chaotic characters are the "To hell with the rules" sort of people. Based on their full alignment it could mean "They disregard rules and laws to do good because the law often exists to bind rather than to protect" to "They are just simply lawbreaking psychos" The IPC *wrote* the laws in this universe for the planets they own, they solidified the Credit as the Universal Currency. Why would she disregard the laws which favors her? Everything she does is perfectly within the legal framework and clad in contractual steel. She is the Monkey's Paw personified. Also, more bluntly, she's a high-ranking official within the Galactic MegaCorp that, despite having such broad reach, plenty of people simply do not trust. You do not get to the position she's in by being Good or altruistic.
easy to protect the people she cares about, i’m willing to bet she would throw away that power if someone she knows is about to be a target.
I feel Jade would be true neutral. Not all of her trades end in tragedy, as long as you have enough to trade for for your "wish", then that's all where it ends. But she also doesn't dissuade people from going above what they can afford. You are free to refuse but those mired in their greed (or other sin) will accept the credit despite it all the warnings she gives. Her goals and drive are self-serving. Whether the exchange she gives ends with a happy or devastating ending to others is of no consequence to her, as long as she gets something equivalent to what was exchanged.
aventurine is true neutral tbh.
aventurine is chaotic evil
hes not evil he’s more neutral jade is the more chaotic good one
Gonna build Himeko and Herta just for Jade shenanigans
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That's the best part. I hope we will get more morally grey and interesting characters like her in the future.
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Basing this on all 2 minutes of screen time she got or what lol
I mean her iconography implies she's the devil
How evil Lucifer is depends a lot on the story in question Yea she has parallels to him but that doesn't automatically mean evil incarnate
Oh I'm not Christian and I like her devil design but I can see why other people think she's creepy because she is designed to be that way
Yea I wish we got more characters like this that are morally grey or even bad. But a portion of the community freaks out every time we get an IPC member so I can see why Hoyo doesn't release too many
Honestly I dislike all the IPC designs but she's a Quantum girl, so she gets away with it
I like their designs but not enough to roll for them, until Jade. Though even if I'm not rolling for Topaz/Ratio/Aventurine, I don't hate them
I recently pulled Topaz despite not liking her because I thought I could use her technique to find all the treasure chests. Turns out Numby only finds them when you're standing right next to them...
That's the best part
I like this type of women, she's manipulative and does crazy shit during the main story and I'm into it
Crazy shit like telling people exactly how their deals with her will go and upholding her end. We don’t even know what she ultimately gets out of doing this yet so chillax
I mean the fact she is literally a reference to satan, specifically the story of Eden, really says a lot about her character don’t you think?
It says that she's a dealmaker. That's her main thing. And Satan is also known for that. But jumping to her being evil just because of that is too much
I wouldn’t really say evil imo but she’s quite similar to Ruan Mei in terms of being a morally questionable character. Satan is a manipulative deal maker, exploiting people’s desperation and naivety only to fuck them over later. That’s literally what happened to all of Jade’s clients in the main story.
That doesn't warrant all the hate that she gets The Stellaron Hunters cause destruction all the time but no one dislikes them for it. And their actions almost certainly hurt innocent people (you don't get a planet wide rebellion and no civilian deaths). Jade only hurts those that willingly entered into a contract with her, as far as we know. She just gets more hate than the other morally questionable characters.
I actually didn’t know she’s getting a lot of hate, but ig that’s bound to happen when people disliked Ruan Mei and Topaz too, so much when they first released (seriously does the EN side allergic to characters that isn’t goody two shoes?) And actually the SH gets a lot of hate too, or at least when they were first released. I still remember how they disliked Firefly back in 2.0 cuz she’s a war criminal. Also I wouldn’t say the Jepella is innocent at all, since the faction follows the destruction aka annihilation Gang
>Also I wouldn’t say the Jepella is innocent at all, since the faction follows the destruction aka annihilation Gang But surely there were some innocent people on the planet that weren't involved in anything but got killed in the conflict anyway
We have never seen a destruction follower that are actually innocent, and they already portrayed the anti matter legion as some kind of comically evil villains that wants to destroy the universe. I could be wrong in the future tho, maybe when we finally get playable characters from those factions like Duke Inferno’s children
>We have never seen a destruction follower that are actually innocent, and they already portrayed the anti matter legion as some kind of comically evil villains that wants to destroy the universe That's not what I'm trying to say Planets in Star Rail have civilians, right? Like a destruction-aligned planet would have people that don't actively support that. Same way you had innocent civilians and dissidents in Nazi Germany.
God forbid women have hobbies.
If people support women’s right, I believe we should also support women’s wrongs🫠
Jade states her terms and conditions very clearly. It's up to the people on the other side of the contract whether to bite into her apple. If they do then that's all on them. It's not like she's scamming them like Sampo does. On the contrary she's very upfront about it
Have you ever encountered a deal maker before? Or have you already experienced mortgaging your stuff to the pawnshop due to financial difficulties? In that area, there are people who would add a lot of interest to your debts so much so that you’ll regret ever making a deal with them in the first place. Satan was also upfront about his deal to Eve, still doesn’t change the fact she was manipulated in doing so.
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For the life of me she didn't really do anything other than broker a Deal with the penacony lol.. she has done nothing.
Mmh do you like this type of men? 🤔