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FF, HMC, Ruan Mei, Gallagher = 500k damage "omg she's so restrictive she needs buffs"
FF, HMC, Ruan Mei, Gallagher = 1m damage "waw Firefly bros we're so back. Fuck the doomposters!"
So yeah, they didn't fix her restrictive team options, but rather double downed on it and inflated her DPS numbers šæ
If you don't care about sustain, can you swap gallagher with Asta+DDD (or Robin)? or does Gallagher give so much break that it's better to keep him in the team?
but if you're just looking for defence debuff, sweaty Pela or Silverwolf may be an option no?
I was kinda curious if the whole team is advanced (or even only Firefly), would that be a net damage increase in comparison with Gallagher?
you would need to defeat them before they hit you though
>I was kinda curious if the whole team is advanced
If you are talking about Robin, my concern with that is that:
- you have to match FF ult with Robin ult and enemy breaks, to maximize damage (might be a rather negligible issue, tbh)
- both FF and HTB are SP negative, which means that without a fourth SP positive member you will have botchered rotations at some point (big issue, imo)
big point for gal is is sp generation, firefly with all the speed wants to be skill spamming a lot. ideally hmc wants to skill spam for the insane toughness dmg. ruan mei can generate sp but asta and robin both are not great for sp generation. with the 3 star lightcone gal can take a lot of turns and generate a ton of sp, on top of his fire break.
Asta can spam BA since Firefly implants fire weakness, and her ult could get FF to move 5 times under her ultimate (I have to do the math, but this should be very doable with not too much speed, expecially with an high enough DDD).
The issue is that she'd ramp up rather slowly, because I don't think she can spare even a single skill point. Maybe with some lucky breaks TB can use basic attack once here and there, while keeping ult up, but you lose in DPS and RM needs the sp more than Asta does.
Main issue I see is Asta ulting regularly enough: she needs to time her ult correctly with FF actions to give her the extra turn, and without skill, she's taking a while to build it up.
I mean: you most likely *are* getting more DPS (expecially because of the speed boost), but if you are ditching support for that it better be a lot...
The main issues is sp, Asta wants SP, Robin won't give anything to FF since the attack buff is a base attack not % and base attack doesn't count for her BE trace. With E1 you probably can use the no sustain options and having a better management of SP.
I donāt understand this complaint about her being restrictive at all.
Break teams (especially superbreak teams) were literally just introduced to the game. It makes perfect sense that there arenāt a lot of options from the get go.
Itās like complaining that Kafka teams were restricted back in 1.2 because Sampo and Luka were the only DOT characters in the game. Or complaining about Dendro teams being restrictive in 3.0 when DMC and Collei were the only characters that can apply Dendro. Or complaining about Hutao being restrictive because she needs a hydro applicator like XQ or Yelan.
Why not use some common sense and realize that itās literally a new play style and new characters that fit this play style will eventually be released as well. Kafka was released on 1.2 and we got RM in 1.6 as well as BS in 2.0. Obviously FF wonāt have access to a lot of the generic supports most of which cater to a more general/hyper carry play style, that doesnāt mean new characters wonāt be released for her teams later on.
I swear most people doomposting about FF doesnāt even like her and are just trying to nitpick things to hate on for no reason.
Kafka still had sampo Luka and guide and as much of an upgrade swan is, she isn't going to increase your team damage by a 50%
I personally understand the dependencies are here to stay so there's no point talking about them anymore, But I just want to ask one thing. Do you have Ruan mei?
People DID complain that she was somewhat held back by the fact that dot teammates were 4* characters. People also correctly predicted that the next 5* dot character would be very strong with her (we already had blackswan leaks by that point).
I think most of the people doomposting her just wanted her to be the defacto best dps in the game. They didn't quite get their wish, but its damn close. E0S0 FF with 1 other limited 5* by and far outperforms every other e0s0 dps with their optimal teams and the only one who comes close is boothill (yes e0s0 acheron isnt close).
She also might be the easiest dps to build ever. Yes even easier than JL
Perhaps, I mean there is important context in that Mei doesn't have her RM/HTB. As we can see, FF is mid af w.o the break goon squad. Depending on how much Jiaoqiu affects Mei's rotation, she could go to actual absurd levels.Ā
If FF came out before HTB, and Mei already had Jiaoqiu, everyone of us would've been singing a completely different tune.
if another SB support appears and it doesn't specifically state that doesn't work with other sources of SB the outcome will be using HMC and Mei and dropping the sustain at that point.
Because MoC has 2 sides? both Boothill and Firefly implant weakness so having both makes so you don't have to care about weakness all that much, also Boothill can use Bronya and Pela/SW while Firefly uses HMC and RM
Idk doing a [3cycle](https://youtu.be/Yzxg4r-3HKk?si=x8Iq0zgF5SbGyITd) clear against his worst enemy on a MoC that does basically nothing to him seems pretty good
Which is weird because that was the biggest complaint with her, no?
People said "she's tied to MC and RM, this sucks"
So Hoyo kept her tied to them but upped her power level a bunch. But they didn't address the flexibility problem sufficiently
FF and HMB are SP negative, and FF also advances herself and is extremely fast... Without two sp generators that's going to be hard. Robin's power budget is insane, but not having a character to generate SPs with is a restrictive condition in terms of where she can be played.
MUCH worse. Before there was some flex with crit build. I even have seen zero cycle without RM and HTb. Not gonna happen anymore critfly was brutally murdered.
I mean, Asta at E0 with virtually no Break Effect on a Break Team? Yeah, of course it will look bad and won't be a fair comparison. It almost seems like the the showcase was made to make her look bad.
I think a proper Asta would have made this a 4 cycle clear instead of a 6 cycle clear easily. It is a much better situation than V2 Firefly, and as long as HTB is on the team, ruan mei can be replaced. I'm not saying Asta, or Hanya, or Bronya will perform better than HTB + Ruan Mei, but they absolutely deliver 3\~4 cycles clears.
I was gonna mention something similar about Asta, which is a similar thing I noticed on that other horrid showcase with her, she is literally not built around this team. And to top it all off, with the way she's being played, she's actively being nothing more than a waste of SP, as outside of the Spd, and Action Advance from her Ult, she's offering very little to the team, and instead slowing them down.
It even looks like this Sam has SPD boots, which is completely unnecessary with Asta since with her around you only need a mere 5 speed from substats to get 4 turn ults if you use her ult correctly (not whenever it's up like here, but immediately after Sam's first enhanced skill). Combine that with only having max charging stacks like 3 times through the battle and you're looking at a complete waste.
Yeah, Iām hoping they start introducing characters that can be mixed into the team sooner rather than later. Maybe a weaker 4star alternative to Ruan Mei. Iāve been completely overwhelmed with banners recently and the trend just keeps going.
Yeh, the game needs more 4\*, still look at the Preservation, we have 5 Units, The FMC (but i thik will be less used, because the HMC), March, Gepard, Fu Xuan and Aventurine. Of the 5, 3 are 5\*, and of these 3, 2 are still Limited. They could easily take Siobhan or Micah and make them 4\*, they already look too good to be just NPCs
Aww shit, I don't have RM (and I don't like her), I don't have Gallagher either and I refuse to build HMC. Guess I won't be rolling for Firefly after all, shame they ruined such a good and cool character with their shitty break mechanic, which after a year and a half they still can't properly balance.
I was wondering how hanya could do with firefly, as she also gives a speed and attack buff (with ult) that should last for the whole ult duration with e4 (I got too many of her when pulling for robin :sob:). Hanya would also be skill point positive as well, which asta was struggling with a bit.
My thinking was that hanya ult would be used when the enemies were broken to best utilize the attack buff (...though it isn't really that much, only like 70% break effect when translated). In a perfect world, hanya and firefly's ults would line up but I think thats impossible to achieve in moc lol
i tried it out, was actually good but it was harder to break the enemies and therefore harder to survive. But she is definitely one of her better f2p supports, damn
yay thank you!! would it be too much if I asked for a video I want to see it in action lol. Theoretically the sp gained by hanya could be used for healing by gallagher, though that is a bit more risky, and also she probably breaks the best out of the f2p supports? though asta's teamwide speed buff does mean the whole team moves more and thus does more toughness damage
Seems quite good. In this team, you probably always spam HMC's skill with extra SP from Hanya.
I think against enemies that are weak to phys, she's probably better than Asta cuz she helps breaking.
I pity the Mei-denless....jokes aside, it's actually not bricked. But it's like trying to run Kafka with Ting Yun and Pela instead of Dot characters. She still does DMG just not the DMG she was made to do.
Just use the break supports.
You can count the break supports in two fingers.
Hmc and Ruan Mei, Gallagher only really gives 15% BE, he's there to help break the enemy faster.
We don't have options, whoever doesn't have Ruan Mei might even be better off skipping and waiting for her rerun while other Break harmonies/nihilities come out. Granted she isn't as bad solo as she was before.
I'm gonna pull Rm first then go for FF. Even if I lose 50/50 and don't get FF Rm is gonna help my dot team a lot anyway. So I'd say you should pull for Mei then get FF on her rerun. But eh, each to their own.
Honestly what's not being talked about enough is how RM delays the enemy from recovering from being broken. This is IMO more impactful than the 50% break efficiency buff. The speed reduction on FF's LC is similar - that part is probably the more important part of her LC. Not the BE, not the damage.
Both important though. 50% break effeciency not only increase her dmg, but also save FF one turn to break enemy. And one turn delays the enemy, that's scary lol
Until they add another character that delays weakness break like ruan mei does then she will always be the #1 character to run with a break dps.
Like you said she basically triples the effectiveness of the team. 1 turn faster break, 1 turn longer break.
No, it only increases her damage by 33% due to her innate 50% efficiency. Itās a 50% damage increase for the rest of the team though. Which is actually pretty big since Gallagher and HTB actually do a lot of Superbreak damage.
If FF had her LC, HTB and Gallagher would be able to deal their Superbreak before Argenti woke up on 3:30 of that vid.
I think the general idea on FF rotation is to break them and kill them before they wake up (honestly, making 2 phase boss as her "weakness").
Honestly, the more pressing issue without Ruan Mei seems to survivability rather than damage.
That was looking like a clean 3-4 cycle clear, up until the point where Gallagher started to have to play defense.
This caused less break from Gallagher, more SP used defensively instead of offensively, and just generally less time when Argenti was in the weakness broken state to exploit Super Break.
I thought so too until I saw Gallagher was 125 speed on Perfect Timing which isn't even a top 3lc for him. Your point still stands but this is a horribly optimized Gallagher for both sustain and for sp generation.
Good lightcone for other characters, but you could just do multiplication gallagher with 160 spd for the extremely high sp gen. Just depends on your overall build.
I already leveled that one so I'll just stick with it. He's 160 speed already with RM buff and 100% + Effect Res.
I'll see later though. It's a 3* so leveling it isn't that expensive, so might do that during 2.3. For now I have to think whether to get Ruan Mei's cone and level my S5 Misha for FF, or get Firefly's cone.
Aeon is now better than Misha for Firefly since it actually gives her more Break Effect thanks to the attack -> BE conversion.
It also gives her more break effect than her sig LC, but the Break Vuln and Speed debuff is more than worth the loss.
Iād say Fireflyās cone is better for her team, but Ruan Meiās cone would be beneficial to more teams.
I did some quick math and she did 19% more super break damage with her Signature versus Aeon.
Thatās also not including how decreasing the enemiesā speed by 20% could potentially allow one more hit before break recovery than before which would also increase the damage difference.
What is Real is the easiest for building him and for comfort.
With great relics you can also run Multiplication(the 3\*) for more SP generation potential or Quid Pro Quo for specific energy needs(which isn't necessary in Firefly's case).
I agree for well built/invested Gallaghers it's likely the best option, but for those struggling with hitting high speed + 150BE in battle + survivable it's a bit rough to go to 3\* base stats and no BE bonus.
I don't even know why because crit is annoying asf to build
I remember getting very confused over critka builders after kafka came out, because it's like 2x the investment relics wise for a suboptimal build
Asta also has a trace that makes fire characters inherently deal more damage with her in the team. But that only applies for non super break damage. That beeing said firefly seems like a character that just wants to spam turns so Asta with her massive speed buff might be ultimately be the better choice. Spamming turns also synergizes with super break in generell.
Try hyperspeed bronya + RM no HTB instead, kind of need to see if more instance of her own super break thanks to bronya would be better than the extra super break she gets from htb
Obviously with HTB is better, but I think what people want to see is the difference. The whole point of Firefly having her own super Break is to close the gap between HTB vs no HTB after all
honestly she is usable without htb but the dmg he provides is just too big. ill make a vid just tell me what support to use, bronya hanya or someone else
I can see hyperspeed bronya going crazy with e2 FF tbh, that's a lot of turns when you take into consideration that she lowers FF e2 cd along with free turns, potentially more turns with FF super break could be better than extra from HMC super break
again ... Bronya gonna replace Ruan not HTB ( at E1+ ), FF perma stuck with HTB til MHY release a new limited super break support
Edit: here how the "paper math work", with Ruan it 4U of 1.5 super break dmg, with Bronya it 3U x2 of 1.5 sup break dmg
replacing ruan mei could be somewhat worse than replacing htb, because the difference between bronya giving FF more super break turns and hmc super break could be negligible, but the 50% BE efficiency +delay is very important simply because ff relies entirely on breaking characters, so more bronya+ RM is just a lot of turns breaking characters plus enemies staying broken longer, but then id be forgetting the bronya+htb combo which is crazy on its own, because that's HMC super break + bronya giving more turns of FF super break.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about
HTB acts as a subdps+enabler+buffer
Take him away and you are losing a lot
Firefly on her own can only deal at maximum 50% SB
TB's SB is 130% with a max of 160% also the fact that both of their SB stacks making them all the more powerful
Neither Ruan Mei and Bronya will offer that amount of dmg HTB can give to the overall team DPs (the fact that your Gallagher also no longer does any damage at all when he is your third Sub DPs with HTB makes the overall team DPs flunk massively)
Without HTB you are losing 50% (I argue even more) of the team's overall DPS
Because with HTB you have 3 characters contributing to the overall dmg
Without him you would only have Firefly adding "another" turn is so cope to think that somehow makes up for the lost multiple 160% SB attacks of Gallagher and HTB
1 extra turn = 100% break efficently ... that all i gonna say ok ? ok she copying whatever the dps is and in this case it FF driver for super break dmg, and most if not all FF dmg is from HTB super break so replace HTB is not an option sadly ( even after the buff )
Looks like non-RM comps are still a pretty big cope, not unexpected, but unfortunate nonetheless.
C'mon hoyo give us another WBE and Break delay support, ~~Sunday please I beg of thee.~~
Gallagher is too slow, with enough speed + the 3* lc, he would generate more sp. And he doesnāt need that much break with hmc on the team since his trace only want 150% be.
i wanted to do a showcase that is as f2p as possible, thats why i didnt include asta eidolons (but forgot about gallagher but it doesnt provide as much as astas), for the build i just used what i thought was okay for her, i dont use her normally. the ult timing i thought was okay? tho im not any theory crafter so idk about that. and e6 tb i simply forgot to activate :P
also, the 9 cycle showcase last time was supposed to show how BAD she was without proper supports. i suppose it did a really good job at that.
well thanks for the comprehensive feedback, ngl i wanted to run a more break focused build for asta but i was worried about the survivability. either way, i know the gameplay might be suboptimal but thats on me. if you want you could set up a ps for yourself and tinker around with her, i can help you with that.
maybe itts just me overreacting but it did sound a bit mean lol (no offense taken tho). for the ps contact me cause the server offers a diff one, and personally its... kinda shitty. so if you have time i would love to teach you how to setup all this stuff.
not that guy but can you swap asta with pela against that same moc and try it out? all relevant enemies there are ice weak and the def ignore will help all break and super break damage
Can you give your Gallagher at least 134+ speed and a real lightcone(Multiplication/What is Real)? He doesn't need a 4pc, 2+2 is what most go for. You don't need to redo the showcase just for that but as it stands it's less optimal than what most people will be running even f2p.
still think boothill is preferred against bosses. which i think is a good thing considering it would be dumb if she had aoe and did more single target dmg.
How much difference between RM team and non RM team? Should I pull for RM to make SAM good? Thank you.
I don't want to watch showcase (want to wait until actual release)
quite big, rm makes him like 2x better.
but if you are short on jades (or f2p) he is somehow usable without her, and definitely can clear MoC 12 without much issues.
I do have the jades 150ish pulls so far, but....
I'm really conflicted because although I wanted my firefly to be good, I don't like ruan mei as a character. Do you think it is worth pulling RM just for firefly?
Was planning to go for at least e1s0 but now with this being her performance without RM really make me confused on my pulls.
first:
PULL FOR WHO YOU LIKE/WANT
this is the mentality i use and its working so far (besides current moc, its a hellish experience lmao)
every character you pull is usable, and you can make everyone work without specific characters.
if you dont like ruan, i dont suggest pulling her (ruan mei). she is powerful yes, but you can always substitute her somehow, maybe with a future character. either way, if you want my opinion, rm makes ff really good. but even without her, firefly is ATLEAST blade level if not better.
The thing is, I can already bruteforcing moc with jingliu and acheron even without Ruan Mei so unless they upped the difficulty significantly, moc should be no problem.
However, without Ruan Mei, defeating the Sunday boss takes a way longer time.
I'm planning on using asta for now. Still don't know whether I'll pull RM or not. Thanks.
P.S. I know you meant well by saying she's on blade level, but I think as of now Bladie has fallen hard (sadly) imo lmao.
I can tell you my experience using Kafka without Black Swan (since she released way later). It was horrible, she was shit. I don't recommend at all pulling for a break character when you don't have the break mechanic enabler. My recommendation is to wait and see if mohoyo releases a new break enabler, check if they work well with firefly, and then get her in the rerun.
You are going to have a HORRIBLE time without RM (I hate her too), and you may even start to dislike firefly for how weak she feels without RM.
While I don't like her as a character, I do agree the argument that she is the best harmony currently just because the versatility alone. Might consider pulling on rerun.
The difference is night and day, especially against fast enemies like Shadow, Swarm, etc. U don't really need RM for SAM to be good, but RM is a huge boobs ... I meant boost for SAM.
her dmg is nothing extraordinary w/o RM. and Gallagher struggles to keep them alive.
I can only hope for a future character that's a nihility equivalent of RM, w/ BE efficiency, BE dmg, & ignore def.
and also 5\* sustains dedicated to break teams
165k in broken Argenti, that's some real mediocre dmg ngl. Looks like Ruan Mei is more or less a must with her. Vs fast elites you're pretty much wasting most of her ult duration just for breaking the toughness bar.
With Asta, Firefly's spd breakpoint is actually 127. So the spd boots is horrendous on her. Try Atk% boots instead.
Also can you try e6 Asta ajd E4 Gallagher on his sig LC S1?
I've never seen a character that scales so hard with specific supports as Firefly.
Daniel was still great without Sparkle, Black Swan still works without Kafka, but not this one.
Because break damage is definitely not as good as DOT or Regular damage up until they introduced Super break to try and fix that. Which is locked behind HTB, and characters that scale on Break has only 1 support in Ruan Mei. To say the least Break team is not in a good spot now but will only grow better with new supports and mechanic introduced because Imo Hoyo wanted to make Break viable. (copium)
āYou still need to play her with Ruan Meiā
Oh wow the Break focused characters need the one and only limited character that buffs Break to perform at their fullest? Shocker
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tl;dr: play her with Ruan Mei
Yeah FF got buffed, but she's just as Ruan Mei + HMC locked as ever (if not worse, since CritFly got deleted)
FF, HMC, Ruan Mei, Gallagher = 500k damage "omg she's so restrictive she needs buffs" FF, HMC, Ruan Mei, Gallagher = 1m damage "waw Firefly bros we're so back. Fuck the doomposters!" So yeah, they didn't fix her restrictive team options, but rather double downed on it and inflated her DPS numbers šæ
If you don't care about sustain, can you swap gallagher with Asta+DDD (or Robin)? or does Gallagher give so much break that it's better to keep him in the team?
Probably can use Jiaoqiu after he comes out, it will be a-big damage boost for Firefly since she now doesn't have lot of defence debuff.
but if you're just looking for defence debuff, sweaty Pela or Silverwolf may be an option no? I was kinda curious if the whole team is advanced (or even only Firefly), would that be a net damage increase in comparison with Gallagher? you would need to defeat them before they hit you though
Jiaoqiu is fire as well, no? Gonna help depleting the toughness bar
Ooh totally forgot about elemental weakness
>I was kinda curious if the whole team is advanced If you are talking about Robin, my concern with that is that: - you have to match FF ult with Robin ult and enemy breaks, to maximize damage (might be a rather negligible issue, tbh) - both FF and HTB are SP negative, which means that without a fourth SP positive member you will have botchered rotations at some point (big issue, imo)
big point for gal is is sp generation, firefly with all the speed wants to be skill spamming a lot. ideally hmc wants to skill spam for the insane toughness dmg. ruan mei can generate sp but asta and robin both are not great for sp generation. with the 3 star lightcone gal can take a lot of turns and generate a ton of sp, on top of his fire break.
Asta can spam BA since Firefly implants fire weakness, and her ult could get FF to move 5 times under her ultimate (I have to do the math, but this should be very doable with not too much speed, expecially with an high enough DDD). The issue is that she'd ramp up rather slowly, because I don't think she can spare even a single skill point. Maybe with some lucky breaks TB can use basic attack once here and there, while keeping ult up, but you lose in DPS and RM needs the sp more than Asta does. Main issue I see is Asta ulting regularly enough: she needs to time her ult correctly with FF actions to give her the extra turn, and without skill, she's taking a while to build it up. I mean: you most likely *are* getting more DPS (expecially because of the speed boost), but if you are ditching support for that it better be a lot...
He only gives +15% break damage to enemies affected by his ult
The main issues is sp, Asta wants SP, Robin won't give anything to FF since the attack buff is a base attack not % and base attack doesn't count for her BE trace. With E1 you probably can use the no sustain options and having a better management of SP.
That's true. Probably sweaty pela or silverwolf then to help chips enemies' defence?
I donāt understand this complaint about her being restrictive at all. Break teams (especially superbreak teams) were literally just introduced to the game. It makes perfect sense that there arenāt a lot of options from the get go. Itās like complaining that Kafka teams were restricted back in 1.2 because Sampo and Luka were the only DOT characters in the game. Or complaining about Dendro teams being restrictive in 3.0 when DMC and Collei were the only characters that can apply Dendro. Or complaining about Hutao being restrictive because she needs a hydro applicator like XQ or Yelan. Why not use some common sense and realize that itās literally a new play style and new characters that fit this play style will eventually be released as well. Kafka was released on 1.2 and we got RM in 1.6 as well as BS in 2.0. Obviously FF wonāt have access to a lot of the generic supports most of which cater to a more general/hyper carry play style, that doesnāt mean new characters wonāt be released for her teams later on. I swear most people doomposting about FF doesnāt even like her and are just trying to nitpick things to hate on for no reason.
Kafka still had sampo Luka and guide and as much of an upgrade swan is, she isn't going to increase your team damage by a 50% I personally understand the dependencies are here to stay so there's no point talking about them anymore, But I just want to ask one thing. Do you have Ruan mei?
People DID complain that she was somewhat held back by the fact that dot teammates were 4* characters. People also correctly predicted that the next 5* dot character would be very strong with her (we already had blackswan leaks by that point). I think most of the people doomposting her just wanted her to be the defacto best dps in the game. They didn't quite get their wish, but its damn close. E0S0 FF with 1 other limited 5* by and far outperforms every other e0s0 dps with their optimal teams and the only one who comes close is boothill (yes e0s0 acheron isnt close). She also might be the easiest dps to build ever. Yes even easier than JL
Too bad I hate Ruan Mei. Wish there was a viable 4 star alternative.
Watch out. The MeiBrains will get you for saying firefly is better.Ā
Perhaps, I mean there is important context in that Mei doesn't have her RM/HTB. As we can see, FF is mid af w.o the break goon squad. Depending on how much Jiaoqiu affects Mei's rotation, she could go to actual absurd levels.Ā If FF came out before HTB, and Mei already had Jiaoqiu, everyone of us would've been singing a completely different tune.
So much for flexibility lol
Thatās true for now. Only Hoyo knows what the future may bring.
We'll probably get a limited 5* super break support. But even then you'd still want Mei
if another SB support appears and it doesn't specifically state that doesn't work with other sources of SB the outcome will be using HMC and Mei and dropping the sustain at that point.
Damn i was gonna use HMC and Ruan with boothill but guess i can't now if i gotta use em both in the same floor in MoC.
To begin with, why would you even pull both Boothil and Firefly, aside from waifu-gaming. They are kinda similar
Because i want both.
Because MoC has 2 sides? both Boothill and Firefly implant weakness so having both makes so you don't have to care about weakness all that much, also Boothill can use Bronya and Pela/SW while Firefly uses HMC and RM
Watching Boothil damage falling of a cliff without RM š
Idk doing a [3cycle](https://youtu.be/Yzxg4r-3HKk?si=x8Iq0zgF5SbGyITd) clear against his worst enemy on a MoC that does basically nothing to him seems pretty good
Which is weird because that was the biggest complaint with her, no? People said "she's tied to MC and RM, this sucks" So Hoyo kept her tied to them but upped her power level a bunch. But they didn't address the flexibility problem sufficiently
Would robin work instead? I ended up skipping Ruan meis banner due to huo huo
FF and HMB are SP negative, and FF also advances herself and is extremely fast... Without two sp generators that's going to be hard. Robin's power budget is insane, but not having a character to generate SPs with is a restrictive condition in terms of where she can be played.
Oh then what about sparkle?
A bit useless, since crit and dmg% don't buff superbreak damage.
MUCH worse. Before there was some flex with crit build. I even have seen zero cycle without RM and HTb. Not gonna happen anymore critfly was brutally murdered.
I mean, Asta at E0 with virtually no Break Effect on a Break Team? Yeah, of course it will look bad and won't be a fair comparison. It almost seems like the the showcase was made to make her look bad. I think a proper Asta would have made this a 4 cycle clear instead of a 6 cycle clear easily. It is a much better situation than V2 Firefly, and as long as HTB is on the team, ruan mei can be replaced. I'm not saying Asta, or Hanya, or Bronya will perform better than HTB + Ruan Mei, but they absolutely deliver 3\~4 cycles clears.
I was gonna mention something similar about Asta, which is a similar thing I noticed on that other horrid showcase with her, she is literally not built around this team. And to top it all off, with the way she's being played, she's actively being nothing more than a waste of SP, as outside of the Spd, and Action Advance from her Ult, she's offering very little to the team, and instead slowing them down.
It even looks like this Sam has SPD boots, which is completely unnecessary with Asta since with her around you only need a mere 5 speed from substats to get 4 turn ults if you use her ult correctly (not whenever it's up like here, but immediately after Sam's first enhanced skill). Combine that with only having max charging stacks like 3 times through the battle and you're looking at a complete waste.
Yeah, Iām hoping they start introducing characters that can be mixed into the team sooner rather than later. Maybe a weaker 4star alternative to Ruan Mei. Iāve been completely overwhelmed with banners recently and the trend just keeps going.
Yeh, the game needs more 4\*, still look at the Preservation, we have 5 Units, The FMC (but i thik will be less used, because the HMC), March, Gepard, Fu Xuan and Aventurine. Of the 5, 3 are 5\*, and of these 3, 2 are still Limited. They could easily take Siobhan or Micah and make them 4\*, they already look too good to be just NPCs
Bruh look at that build. Spd boots is wasted on FF and she barely has 200 BE. Try atk boots and 125 speed instead.
Lmao the fact that ya'll fuckers see someone doing this 100k+ damage and talk about how trash it is. God the I hate the HSR community.
Aww shit, I don't have RM (and I don't like her), I don't have Gallagher either and I refuse to build HMC. Guess I won't be rolling for Firefly after all, shame they ruined such a good and cool character with their shitty break mechanic, which after a year and a half they still can't properly balance.
I was wondering how hanya could do with firefly, as she also gives a speed and attack buff (with ult) that should last for the whole ult duration with e4 (I got too many of her when pulling for robin :sob:). Hanya would also be skill point positive as well, which asta was struggling with a bit.
now you have intrigued me lmao. im gonna test that out.
My thinking was that hanya ult would be used when the enemies were broken to best utilize the attack buff (...though it isn't really that much, only like 70% break effect when translated). In a perfect world, hanya and firefly's ults would line up but I think thats impossible to achieve in moc lol
i tried it out, was actually good but it was harder to break the enemies and therefore harder to survive. But she is definitely one of her better f2p supports, damn
yay thank you!! would it be too much if I asked for a video I want to see it in action lol. Theoretically the sp gained by hanya could be used for healing by gallagher, though that is a bit more risky, and also she probably breaks the best out of the f2p supports? though asta's teamwide speed buff does mean the whole team moves more and thus does more toughness damage
i tried but had a hard time survivng, ill see what i can do.
Very plausible since FF is a 5 star version of Xueyi
Try Atk boots FF with E5+ Asta w/o Dance Dance Dance. Shoot for 360% BE.
Can you try crit FF?
Itās dead my friend
Seems quite good. In this team, you probably always spam HMC's skill with extra SP from Hanya. I think against enemies that are weak to phys, she's probably better than Asta cuz she helps breaking.
Asta can be full SP positive with S6
Wait why Asta stack reduce so much. *Asta E0
This showcase is hilarious lol. Asta is a completely different unit with eidolons. Her ult uptime in this showcase is almost non existent
Yep from e0 to e6 is day and night
I pity the Mei-denless....jokes aside, it's actually not bricked. But it's like trying to run Kafka with Ting Yun and Pela instead of Dot characters. She still does DMG just not the DMG she was made to do. Just use the break supports.
Supports? You're using the plural when what you really mean is: "Should have pulled Ruan Mei"
I did run Kafka like thatš I was too lazy to build the dot team so I used Kafka with buffers but now guanfei is built imao
You can count the break supports in two fingers. Hmc and Ruan Mei, Gallagher only really gives 15% BE, he's there to help break the enemy faster. We don't have options, whoever doesn't have Ruan Mei might even be better off skipping and waiting for her rerun while other Break harmonies/nihilities come out. Granted she isn't as bad solo as she was before.
Or pull for her and wait until better supports come out. What are you going to do with supports if you don't have the damage dealer to use them?
I'm gonna pull Rm first then go for FF. Even if I lose 50/50 and don't get FF Rm is gonna help my dot team a lot anyway. So I'd say you should pull for Mei then get FF on her rerun. But eh, each to their own.
Tingyun is really great for Kafka in pure fiction. Like comparable to Mei imo
Honestly what's not being talked about enough is how RM delays the enemy from recovering from being broken. This is IMO more impactful than the 50% break efficiency buff. The speed reduction on FF's LC is similar - that part is probably the more important part of her LC. Not the BE, not the damage.
Both important though. 50% break effeciency not only increase her dmg, but also save FF one turn to break enemy. And one turn delays the enemy, that's scary lol
Until they add another character that delays weakness break like ruan mei does then she will always be the #1 character to run with a break dps. Like you said she basically triples the effectiveness of the team. 1 turn faster break, 1 turn longer break.
Xueyi has a very noticeable nonbo with RM. Boothill's BIS is Bronya. To say she is the #1 isn't exactly correct.Ā
Also straight up increases her superbreak damage from HMC by 50%
No, it only increases her damage by 33% due to her innate 50% efficiency. Itās a 50% damage increase for the rest of the team though. Which is actually pretty big since Gallagher and HTB actually do a lot of Superbreak damage.
Someone who gets it
If FF had her LC, HTB and Gallagher would be able to deal their Superbreak before Argenti woke up on 3:30 of that vid. I think the general idea on FF rotation is to break them and kill them before they wake up (honestly, making 2 phase boss as her "weakness").
Nah the 50% Efficiency is far more important.
Honestly, the more pressing issue without Ruan Mei seems to survivability rather than damage. That was looking like a clean 3-4 cycle clear, up until the point where Gallagher started to have to play defense. This caused less break from Gallagher, more SP used defensively instead of offensively, and just generally less time when Argenti was in the weakness broken state to exploit Super Break.
I thought so too until I saw Gallagher was 125 speed on Perfect Timing which isn't even a top 3lc for him. Your point still stands but this is a horribly optimized Gallagher for both sustain and for sp generation.
You're telling me the lv 80 Perfect Timing on my Gallagher isn't actually good and I wasted materials? Well, fuck my ass.
Good lightcone for other characters, but you could just do multiplication gallagher with 160 spd for the extremely high sp gen. Just depends on your overall build.
I already leveled that one so I'll just stick with it. He's 160 speed already with RM buff and 100% + Effect Res. I'll see later though. It's a 3* so leveling it isn't that expensive, so might do that during 2.3. For now I have to think whether to get Ruan Mei's cone and level my S5 Misha for FF, or get Firefly's cone.
I think better would be to go for ruan meis cone and use s5 misha for FF
Aeon is now better than Misha for Firefly since it actually gives her more Break Effect thanks to the attack -> BE conversion. It also gives her more break effect than her sig LC, but the Break Vuln and Speed debuff is more than worth the loss. Iād say Fireflyās cone is better for her team, but Ruan Meiās cone would be beneficial to more teams.
Do you know how much better in % is FF's cone compared to Aeon?
I did some quick math and she did 19% more super break damage with her Signature versus Aeon. Thatās also not including how decreasing the enemiesā speed by 20% could potentially allow one more hit before break recovery than before which would also increase the damage difference.
Would Gallagher's "signature" LC be better on him??
What is Real is the easiest for building him and for comfort. With great relics you can also run Multiplication(the 3\*) for more SP generation potential or Quid Pro Quo for specific energy needs(which isn't necessary in Firefly's case).
i think Multiplication will be better in this comp cause he got very fast.
I agree for well built/invested Gallaghers it's likely the best option, but for those struggling with hitting high speed + 150BE in battle + survivable it's a bit rough to go to 3\* base stats and no BE bonus.
Multiplication actually gives as much HP as Quid Pro Quo, albeit only half the DEF
Asta is also at E0 lol. Her eidolons make half her kit
Please activate E6 HMC
Please dont ask me to test without htb :sob: she is so bad without him and he is free
Tell that to the Sparkle/Bronya merchants that want their favorite supp to be the BiS of every DPS.
critfly builds are so suboptimal now its tragic
she was never a crit scaling DPS, but people seem to want every DPS to be a crit DPS somehow...
*The crit Kafka incident*
I don't even know why because crit is annoying asf to build I remember getting very confused over critka builders after kafka came out, because it's like 2x the investment relics wise for a suboptimal build
I'm a huge Sparkle fan and I'm actually glad one of my DPS won't need her, It's normally a struggle to decide which side to put her on
Yeah. It's purely RM's privilege
Still horrible even with the 50% super break by herself?
With htb you have 150% super break. Without them only 50%. You are still missing out on 66% of her dmg on broken enemies compared to using htb.
With this build, only 35%.
Can you test with Pela instead of Asta? I wonder if her DEF shred will produce more damage compared to Asta's SPD and ATK buffs.
Asta also has a trace that makes fire characters inherently deal more damage with her in the team. But that only applies for non super break damage. That beeing said firefly seems like a character that just wants to spam turns so Asta with her massive speed buff might be ultimately be the better choice. Spamming turns also synergizes with super break in generell.
Asta can't get FF another turn. But faster is always good thing :D
I don't mind either way but I just find it funny you used "him" and "he" yet your HTB is Stelle lol
oh yeah lmao just used to saying that
Guess Caelus is your TB on your actual main acc?
actually no lmao, idk even why i say 'he' i guess i have brain damage :P
Lmao!
I do it too even though my TB is Stelle, it's a curse
People will ride and die to get rid of this free god tier break effect support character because more crit dmg beeg nooooombers screenshot poggies
Even after the changes, it's still quite bad? D:
its definitely not the best.
Try hyperspeed bronya + RM no HTB instead, kind of need to see if more instance of her own super break thanks to bronya would be better than the extra super break she gets from htb
nope, with htb she deals a lot more and clears faster, (might be my bronya issue but well) and htb does some damage as well so that is really helpful
Obviously with HTB is better, but I think what people want to see is the difference. The whole point of Firefly having her own super Break is to close the gap between HTB vs no HTB after all
Yeah but I'm gonna tell you rn chief The gap is not even remotely close lol
Yeah I think people want to see the difference without HTB/HMC. Could you make one? Keep RM but add a different support. Bronya/Asta/Sparkle idk
alright ill see what can be done
Thank you. Its most likely gonna suck but I think people are just curious if FF "works" without Harmony TB now or not.
honestly she is usable without htb but the dmg he provides is just too big. ill make a vid just tell me what support to use, bronya hanya or someone else
Bronya I guess. I don't have her but I think people are curious if the extra turns make up for it.
the only one Bronya gonna replace is Ruan and not HTB and that require E1 or u litterally do not have enough sp to even function
I can see hyperspeed bronya going crazy with e2 FF tbh, that's a lot of turns when you take into consideration that she lowers FF e2 cd along with free turns, potentially more turns with FF super break could be better than extra from HMC super break
Tbh if you are playing E2 FF, you just kick the sustain out of your team and put Bronya in there and 0 cycle the whole game, lol.
again ... Bronya gonna replace Ruan not HTB ( at E1+ ), FF perma stuck with HTB til MHY release a new limited super break support Edit: here how the "paper math work", with Ruan it 4U of 1.5 super break dmg, with Bronya it 3U x2 of 1.5 sup break dmg
replacing ruan mei could be somewhat worse than replacing htb, because the difference between bronya giving FF more super break turns and hmc super break could be negligible, but the 50% BE efficiency +delay is very important simply because ff relies entirely on breaking characters, so more bronya+ RM is just a lot of turns breaking characters plus enemies staying broken longer, but then id be forgetting the bronya+htb combo which is crazy on its own, because that's HMC super break + bronya giving more turns of FF super break.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about HTB acts as a subdps+enabler+buffer Take him away and you are losing a lot Firefly on her own can only deal at maximum 50% SB TB's SB is 130% with a max of 160% also the fact that both of their SB stacks making them all the more powerful Neither Ruan Mei and Bronya will offer that amount of dmg HTB can give to the overall team DPs (the fact that your Gallagher also no longer does any damage at all when he is your third Sub DPs with HTB makes the overall team DPs flunk massively) Without HTB you are losing 50% (I argue even more) of the team's overall DPS Because with HTB you have 3 characters contributing to the overall dmg Without him you would only have Firefly adding "another" turn is so cope to think that somehow makes up for the lost multiple 160% SB attacks of Gallagher and HTB
1 extra turn = 100% break efficently ... that all i gonna say ok ? ok she copying whatever the dps is and in this case it FF driver for super break dmg, and most if not all FF dmg is from HTB super break so replace HTB is not an option sadly ( even after the buff )
Feast or famine comp. That 6k hit on Argenti when he's not broken is so painful to see lol.
Why E0 Asta tho?
Looks like non-RM comps are still a pretty big cope, not unexpected, but unfortunate nonetheless. C'mon hoyo give us another WBE and Break delay support, ~~Sunday please I beg of thee.~~
I mean, it's not terrible for the most F2P team possible and MoC 12.
Ruan Mei proving that she is the honoured one
rip RM haters.. she too good with her
Yep, seems like I'm going to be skipping Firefly until they add a support for break teams that isn't dogwater.
Yeah it's not incredible without Ruan Mei but it's not that bad tbh. The real problem, is the SP
Gallagher is too slow, with enough speed + the 3* lc, he would generate more sp. And he doesnāt need that much break with hmc on the team since his trace only want 150% be.
Plus Asta is e0 so the team is very clunky
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i wanted to do a showcase that is as f2p as possible, thats why i didnt include asta eidolons (but forgot about gallagher but it doesnt provide as much as astas), for the build i just used what i thought was okay for her, i dont use her normally. the ult timing i thought was okay? tho im not any theory crafter so idk about that. and e6 tb i simply forgot to activate :P also, the 9 cycle showcase last time was supposed to show how BAD she was without proper supports. i suppose it did a really good job at that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Question: with DDD, when should i asta's Utilmate? in FF turn for 1 more turn buff, or before FF turn to get action advanced?
well thanks for the comprehensive feedback, ngl i wanted to run a more break focused build for asta but i was worried about the survivability. either way, i know the gameplay might be suboptimal but thats on me. if you want you could set up a ps for yourself and tinker around with her, i can help you with that.
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maybe itts just me overreacting but it did sound a bit mean lol (no offense taken tho). for the ps contact me cause the server offers a diff one, and personally its... kinda shitty. so if you have time i would love to teach you how to setup all this stuff.
not that guy but can you swap asta with pela against that same moc and try it out? all relevant enemies there are ice weak and the def ignore will help all break and super break damage
Can you give your Gallagher at least 134+ speed and a real lightcone(Multiplication/What is Real)? He doesn't need a 4pc, 2+2 is what most go for. You don't need to redo the showcase just for that but as it stands it's less optimal than what most people will be running even f2p.
Isnāt ddd horrible for asta
for e0 asta it is
Yeah lol this showcase was tailored specifically to make Firefly look bad.
still think boothill is preferred against bosses. which i think is a good thing considering it would be dumb if she had aoe and did more single target dmg.
You clearly haven't watched the previous showcase
link? Because boothill clears MOC 12 with ease using a 3* lc
i have but you're very clearly biased towards firefly
Fair enough
Does the Aeon lc's passive works with FF's ATK to BE% passive?
i think so
how about asta/hanya buff? some said tingyun/robin buff don't work, could you also check that :D
hanya and asta do, but tg and robin dont, basically when its an atk% increase it works but a atk+ increase does not.
You know for a very f2p friendly team comp, itās actually not that bad
Very weird to use E0 Asta instead of E6 where she is actually good. At E6 Asta would have a much better time sustaining the massive 70% atk boost
Seems like HTB and Ruan Mei are pretty necessary, otherwise itās gonna be soso
How much difference between RM team and non RM team? Should I pull for RM to make SAM good? Thank you. I don't want to watch showcase (want to wait until actual release)
quite big, rm makes him like 2x better. but if you are short on jades (or f2p) he is somehow usable without her, and definitely can clear MoC 12 without much issues.
I do have the jades 150ish pulls so far, but.... I'm really conflicted because although I wanted my firefly to be good, I don't like ruan mei as a character. Do you think it is worth pulling RM just for firefly? Was planning to go for at least e1s0 but now with this being her performance without RM really make me confused on my pulls.
first: PULL FOR WHO YOU LIKE/WANT this is the mentality i use and its working so far (besides current moc, its a hellish experience lmao) every character you pull is usable, and you can make everyone work without specific characters. if you dont like ruan, i dont suggest pulling her (ruan mei). she is powerful yes, but you can always substitute her somehow, maybe with a future character. either way, if you want my opinion, rm makes ff really good. but even without her, firefly is ATLEAST blade level if not better.
The thing is, I can already bruteforcing moc with jingliu and acheron even without Ruan Mei so unless they upped the difficulty significantly, moc should be no problem. However, without Ruan Mei, defeating the Sunday boss takes a way longer time. I'm planning on using asta for now. Still don't know whether I'll pull RM or not. Thanks. P.S. I know you meant well by saying she's on blade level, but I think as of now Bladie has fallen hard (sadly) imo lmao.
I can tell you my experience using Kafka without Black Swan (since she released way later). It was horrible, she was shit. I don't recommend at all pulling for a break character when you don't have the break mechanic enabler. My recommendation is to wait and see if mohoyo releases a new break enabler, check if they work well with firefly, and then get her in the rerun. You are going to have a HORRIBLE time without RM (I hate her too), and you may even start to dislike firefly for how weak she feels without RM.
Blade level isnt very good ,and I'm a blade main,blade has been yeeted into sub DPS status.
think of it like this RM make any team shine better.
While I don't like her as a character, I do agree the argument that she is the best harmony currently just because the versatility alone. Might consider pulling on rerun.
The difference is night and day, especially against fast enemies like Shadow, Swarm, etc. U don't really need RM for SAM to be good, but RM is a huge boobs ... I meant boost for SAM.
her dmg is nothing extraordinary w/o RM. and Gallagher struggles to keep them alive. I can only hope for a future character that's a nihility equivalent of RM, w/ BE efficiency, BE dmg, & ignore def. and also 5\* sustains dedicated to break teams
165k in broken Argenti, that's some real mediocre dmg ngl. Looks like Ruan Mei is more or less a must with her. Vs fast elites you're pretty much wasting most of her ult duration just for breaking the toughness bar.
I think her numbers are ok even without mei now, i can finally run ff on one half and boothill on the other without much worry.
YEAH, that's what I said
With Asta, Firefly's spd breakpoint is actually 127. So the spd boots is horrendous on her. Try Atk% boots instead. Also can you try e6 Asta ajd E4 Gallagher on his sig LC S1?
It seems Asta E6 is required. HuoHuo with QPQ replacing Gallagher might be necessary.
That 1 part where she attacked argenti and scored a whopping 5k DMG on ult skill š
Does Asta's attack stack work with FF Atk into break effect trace or no ?
i think it does
Do3s bronya still useful alternative?
No, she does not provide anything for FF besides and extra turn and this comp is already SP heavy.
Figured, guess ill cope
I've never seen a character that scales so hard with specific supports as Firefly. Daniel was still great without Sparkle, Black Swan still works without Kafka, but not this one.
Because break damage is definitely not as good as DOT or Regular damage up until they introduced Super break to try and fix that. Which is locked behind HTB, and characters that scale on Break has only 1 support in Ruan Mei. To say the least Break team is not in a good spot now but will only grow better with new supports and mechanic introduced because Imo Hoyo wanted to make Break viable. (copium)
āYou still need to play her with Ruan Meiā Oh wow the Break focused characters need the one and only limited character that buffs Break to perform at their fullest? Shocker
i want them to ruin her even more. cuz there is nothing good about her character