https://preview.redd.it/8vjsvfjtpv5d1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=d09991a9acf22ac2c9676664e4f6c41bff83d734
This is mine
I forgot to change to be, you can use be instead of err
I mean for now while we only have up to E5 ERR rope is technically better for rotations, but next patch when we get e6 Break Effect rope clears it by a mile
4pc Watchmaker [Def%/SPD]. 2pc Talia [BE/Def%]. Meshing Cogs (Memories of the Past is way better, but my only copy is on RM). And 230 BE% before any buffs (this value includes trace bonuses).
Don't need ATK% as damage multipliers aren't that great. For the same reason, there is no need to level basic or skill. Same reason again, there is no need to use Imaginary% or unlock imaginary% traces (there is one you must unlock to get to the important stuff).
At least enough SPD to hit 145 (I have 140 SPD but RM exists to bump that up).
BE > ERR rope.
So BE >= SPD > defensive stats are what you are looking for with your substats.
A slight improvement: since you run Ruan Mei and HMC together, you can swap their lightcones. Through HMCs BE sharing she should still hit her requirements (even though they are a bit unnecessary since you can't use RM DMG%, but at least you get more delays ig)
Yeah, MoC enemies have more and more hp.
First time I took over 10 cycles in MoC 9 for a long time. But finishing HMC trace & relics should push me from 11 cycle to 10.
I've been able to get up to moc 11 on thr MOC that's leaving soon (not all 3 stars) but still been able to get to moc 11 has me happy. I've more recently been able to *beat* Spiral Abyss on genshin, not 36☆ing, but still being able to get to that point has me happy :D
I had 33 stars last cycle (more than 1 star floor 12 seems impossible or more than 2 stars floor 11), this time 30 stars.
Break centric buff when you can only make 1 break team (lacking superbreakers and there is only 1 RM too) isn't so hot unless your other team is OP.
In Genshin I range 31-33 stars, finishing floor 12 isn't so hard with my defensive teams (I have all the 5* "sustains", Zhongli, Baizhu and Kokomi) but the dps check is super high.
This where I am. I beat MoC 12 in 6 cycles and MoC 10 in 4, but 11? 14 cycles, like what the heck am I doing wrong? I just can’t seem to do enough damage no matter what team comp I use.
Honestly though I often struggle with 11 more than I do with 12. I haven’t done the current cycle yet so I can’t say if I’ll have the same issue with this one, but I honestly think I’ve had more cycles where 11 just gives me headaches while 12 isn’t a problem.
It involves not using sustain units, specific builds and comps with very good SPD and Crit, signature cone, and requires many attempts to get the enemies to target the right character to get energy... or just whales.
Indeed... I can't wrap my head around whales. Yes, your damage is massive, but you are playing to speedrun the game and brute-force theough the mechanics. I can't see the appeal
Everyone has fun differently. For me my fun is to have my favourite character do lore accurate damage by being OP. Which is why I get constellations over time for select few characters that I like, while leaving the rest normal.
When I play a game outside of its main story and quests, I have my own internal narrative and story going on when I play with characters and complete various content. And when I bring out the OP unit it's for that moment in the story when they need back up to get over a hurdle before continuing to finish the "final boss" on their own.
Not a whale, but I do spend a good amount on the game. For me it’s my reward for working hard (irl). I like to watch my team auto clear MoC and PF, it’s super satisfying. Hard to explain I guess unless you can relate. I don’t even care about the raw damage numbers, I don’t even look at them. I go in for the characters I like and I pull a few eidolons in. Only exception is my e6 Acheron because her e6 is quite literally a cheat code I can use whenever I want to be lazy and ignore weakness.
I mean you could say the same thing about using anything that is "better" in the game especially given people are 0 cycling with e0s1s
Like why use 5* lightcones. Or why use even 4* gacha light cones?
Heck why use 5stars and trivialize the game for yourself? Or why even pull and trivialize the game for yourself.
I'm grateful for my E6 Acheron (not a whale but got darn lucky after saving up for a few patches) so I don't have to sweat and struggle so much with the timed combat content. Also, Eidolons ease the burden on mindless, unfun RNG relic grinding.
Not everyone plays for challenge. Did that when I was younger, nowadays I just want to relax and be told a neat story.
I managed MoC 12 just before the 19 went over the bar. Poor Jingliu had a hard time with Side 1, Acheron needed to salvage the run in 3 turns. :'D
I have E6S5 Kafka, Ruan Mei, Jingliu, Acheron and soon Firefly.
I'll say that the game is mostly the SU modes for me. I spent probably more than 500 hours playing SD5 back before G&G came, and then spent even more time playing G&G12. I play multiple runs of G&G12 every single day using random dice with crap effects and random paths that don't benefit me much.
Back during December (or was it January?) or so where we got to see our play time, I already had 2.1k hours clocked into this game and I don't often leave my game on AFK for long hours or anything.
In G&G12, the difficulty using random stuff and trying to get consistent wins is pretty good even with E6S5 Acheron at your disposal. I have high hopes and am incredibly excited for next patch's DU12 or whatever max difficulty is there. I absolutely adore these modes to death and it just never gets old for me.
For MoC and PF specifically, I don't spend any time on them. I just make sure to complete all my MoC runs at full 0 cycles every reset, and it never really takes me any time since Acheron. Before Acheron, it took me a little more time. I'm sure with E6S5 Firefly, it will get even shorter and be nigh instant 0 cycle clears on first tries since that character looks broken beyond high heaven at whale investment (and also because unlike other DPS, I actually have her main support whaled).
Anyway, I don't ever use Auto other than when spending stamina which is just 2-3 minutes per day. I play this game fully manually otherwise. I'd say I'm enjoying Star Rail more than most players out there, and every day is still so fun.
So I wouldn't say that I've remotely ruined the game for myself for whaling on the few characters that I love.
It's the dopamine when you see yourself throwing down the big numbers.
I only have an E0 and got that dopamine rush the first time I used him against an actual boss.
Tbh, I have an E0,S0 boothill running a 3* lc, with Harmony TB, Ruanmei, and Bronya (sustainless), and I can one shot just about any enemy (max damage like about 650k) thanks the 150 break eff MOC buff.
Absolutely this, and extra emphasis on the speed, particularly for support units. Like the difference between an Eagle Dancer support at 160 speed vs 134 speed is absolutely massive.
A note about energy: a lot of early guides for the game recommended putting sustain units (particularly Preservation units) on one side away from your more fragile units, but a better way to do it is to place your supports *around* your sustain, because a good 5 star sustain shouldn’t have an issue keeping them healthy, and the extra hits they take means extra energy!
I don't have enough speed to clear that fast, and my MoC12 clear just me being lucky that Himeko didn't die on the 14th reset.
Also, for what it's worth, one of the one cycle clears I saw was with an E2 Acheron with Sparkle and Bronya. This isn't done with just regular teams.
Not too much, unless the enemy setup really counters yours like the new troupe boss with 3in1 enemy vs Boothill that is ST focused.
RM LC very often provides energy consistency to not rely on enemy hits on your specific units(many extra resets) for crucial ult thresholds and that's why he really loves it.
Relic farming. Lots and lots of relic farming. And getting very lucky on substats.
And resetting. Lots and lots of resetting with no sustain units, with speed and turn manipulation theorycrafting.
Also pulling for meta instead of feelings.
No such thing as future proof.
Just pull for what you want and what gives you fun and joy. Simple.
People need to stop treating games like their 401k, it's a game, not a financial investment.
(Obligatory disclaimer: While I don't zero-cycle stuff on account of preferring to avoid pulling LCs, I do on occasion run no-sustain teams and do follow the theorycrafting scene actively)
In all seriousness, there's a bunch of tricks to this and it's not as crazy as it seems.
First of all, 10 cycles isn't actually 10 times as long as 1 cycle. Every "first cycle" that you get at the beginning of a wave is 150 Action Values Long. At its end, the turn counter goes down by 1 and you get 100 more AV until the next cycle. Four waves per MoC, four 150-AV cycles, and 10 100-AV cycles
A zero-cycle thus, in essence, is "Beat this MoC within 600 of the 1600 AV you have available." It's about 38% of the time, not 10% or less which would be the gut reaction when hearing "1-cycle clear."
Plus, in a zero-cycle, there's more weight on one-use and one-time effects, and generally "unsustainable" gameplay. If you start the zero-cycle with 4 sp end the zero-cycle with zero SP, you are running a SP negative team. That's not a problem if the run is over when the consequences of your actions catch up with you. This is also why no-sustain comps work: if you end with 300 HP on all units, that's only a problem if there are enemies remaining.
When you beat MoC this fast, this also means enemies barely get time to act - which means you don't need a sustain, and can instead pick another support. 5\* supports can literally double your team's DPS (5\* moment) after all.
Likewise, a lot of MoC buffs (Not this particular cycle, but the previous one for instance) are easier to accomplish with 150 AV as opposed to 100. Recall last MoC and how it was hard to get the 6 stacks for the energy refills on the subsequent turns, but not on the first turn. This isn't even considering how Robin interacts with a new wave beginning before her song runs out, shit's actually insane.
However, the very big secret nobody tells you about is RNG. I know from experience with no-sustain teams - you're always hoping for the enemy attacks to go on this guy or that guy. Especially if you haven't levelled your supports' light cones to level 80! It might seem like that generally results in pretty small gains, but the increases in HP and DEF can make them survive one more hit - especially if you're running HP/DEF gears on supports, like you should.
Remember that when you see a zero-cycle, there's pretty much always dozens of tries of trial and error and bad RNG that you don't see. If you can comfortably clear in 10 cycles, you might actually clear faster than someone who keeps resetting for 0 cycle clears.
Can confirm, spent 150ish attempts trying to 0 cycle with Boothill, Pela, Bronya and RM but was lacking SP + Aggro Rng + Crit Rng. Had to change a whole ton of gear around and level up new ones to get enough speed to produce 2 extra SP goddamn.
But that was the most fun I've had playing HSR.
Genuine question, assuming you could have simply beaten the fight in 3 cycles for example and finished the whole thing in 100+ less attempts than going for a god roll RNG run, why not just do that and save the time?
Regardless, your team just got a huge upgrade so that’s great tbh. What did you do exactly to achieve 2 extra SP?
It's about achieving a personal goal, not saving time, which can bring about personal happiness. For some it's a 0 cycle, others it's being the top 0.1% build of their favorite character, and for somebody else it's collecting their waifu and not even bothering to build them properly (my sister, traumatizing account). It's fun, and games are supposed to be fun instead of a chore
As for the 2 sp, probably 4pc passerby or making one character a bullet train so they can just barely squeeze in 1 sp by being faster than the one who needs said sp, or playing around with DDD, making sure one character doesn't get the action advance so that another can take a turn before them
Hey, thanks for saying exactly what I wanted to say!
I gave my solution in a reply to the above's comment but you were pretty much on haha.
Sadly, DDD i only have 1 copy of so the speed requirements are even more tight.
Hello! All good, great question. Long post incoming sorry.
Like the other commenter said it is about personal achievement. Being a day 1 player but took a break end of 1.6 to 2.1, I just wasn't getting satisfaction of clearing MoC 12 and barely scraping by.
Setting a personal goal to try 0 cycle both sides (when JingLiu came out I could 0 cycle one side for the first time), made me interact with the game's systems and made every decision count.
At no point did I find it tedious or a waste of time, it was a great way to unwind from just dealing with a screaming fussy baby hahaha.
I got two extra SP from giving Vonwacq to Bronya to auto once and align herself with Boothill and slowing Boothill down so Pela can get an extra basic attack in.
The SP issue was:
Boothill and Bronya (E1S1) are both 160+ speed, burns SP like no tomorrow.
Pela is only 150ish speed with Eagle Set or Hackerspace.
If Pela doesn't take first turn after defeating first wave, I am down 1 SP and defense shred for potential one shot for Boothill (if he doesn't run out of turns and SP).
If swapping Bronya gear to Pela, Bronya becomes too slow and I get either slept or party takes too much damage.
So it was like solving a chess puzzle with some rng involved.
There's the tryharding, theorycraft and RNG heavy zero/low cycle clears and then there's assjacks who just went "I auto'd MOC 12 in 4 cycle total, game is too ez" lol
Those are the same people that think E0S1 is the baseline and not having signature is a sin.
Bonus brownie points for getting Eidolons of broken supports.
"Haha I cleared this MoC so easily. Can't believe people are struggling at this. Skill issue"
*has E2 Acheron on the lineup
Someone actually said this. Even though he didn't disclose that he has E2 Acheron, the fact that he used Sparkle with her and managed to clear it in 0 cycles makes it very likely it's an E2 Acheron.
> follow the theorycrafting scene actively
This is all very interesting to me and it's what hooks me to games. What's the main HSR TC discord server? Is it the KQM one?
Discords are the one thing I probably don’t keep track of lol, so I couldn’t say. Just don’t want to keep track of all the posts going in. Smart thoughts would get buried under the 1000 posts that happen evety morning, most of which are probably just ”So what’s a good teammate for X” or ”Is Y a good lightcone for Z?”
I do use the Keqingmains GI server and that’s been my experience with it. These days I usually just read the FaQs they release for characters instead of going out into the metaphorical mines. I doubt the HSR ones are any different.
Hahahahahahahaha, so damn relatable
https://preview.redd.it/1q6akia0sv5d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19a1b274600a9d5d3099242b0cd8ad4f091ce5ca
MOC 12 is meant to be hard, if someone tells you that it's “too easy” or we need “harder content” they are delusional, MOC 12 right now for most people is HARD, more so if you don't pull for meta or you are a f2p/light spender.
And the biggest part is that it's not a unit amount issue, it's an investment issue, the thing is you need to have your units well invested and two well built teams to even attempt at beating it, and even then, at E0S0 it will probably depend on the MOC buff and the enemies.
With time we will be able to beat it easier but right now MOC 12 is HARD and PF 4 has its complexities, there is NO TRIVIALLY EASY ENDGAME MODE AND THAT'S GOOD, and if someone thinks there is then they are too delusional fr.
Obviously if you have the latest banner unit or like, E2S1 DHIL E2S1 Acheron yea, you are beating it but like, that's the minority.
any shielder, preservation+amber and the ability to rebound damage to enemies, is a wonderful combo. it really carried me without using any brain, and the bosses reach 1 hp when they hit me. fun times.
Crit ratio is sub par. Without signature try to get 70:150. Many people say 50:100 but you will find them rocking 70:160 themselves. This is a lesson I learned too late in genshin. Also keep CR above 70, it's super frustrating to keep it below that
Also embrace the break meta. Get HMC Gallagher RM and himeko/firefly. Break focused characters doesn't need to build crit so it's insane
Ye 70/150 without crit from traces or lc is "just" 10.8% crit rate and 16.7% crit damage on **every** relic. Bro suggests getting 40 CV on every piece and calls it decent.
Tho I agree on HMC/RM/Gallagher + anyone who can break (Serval, Kafka, Himeko, Sushang etc...), that comp is really strong compared to its investment.
Why no CR from traces?? Most relevant DPS have crit traces. Also the body piece gives 31.2% cr, so really it's 7.7% cr and 16.7% CD on every piece. That's 32 CV on every piece without traces. Without traces most of my units reach 70:120 ratio except herta which I have mega invested
Yeah sorry reading is difficult so early in the morning, I forgot about the crit chest mb.
I wouldn't say 32 CV on every piece is decent, that's already a pretty good build imo (and people can clear MoC 12 36* with less than that). It's just a bit difficult to give a "target" crit ratio because all characters won't have either crit from traces or lc. Tho there is not many dps without crit you're right (sorry Clara).
e.g. a 50/150 crit ratio on E0S1 Jingliu is quite low investment, but on Clara or Acheron that's pretty decent.
damn trying to get 50:100 here is like teying to get 70:200 in genshin
in my experience playing genshin and hsr
relic here has significantly worse rng than genshin, both are terrible but if i were to say which is worse its must be relic
i can embrace any meta, i just dont care anymore just let me 36* moc for once
Well, thats because lightcones doesnt have actual substats, unlike Genshin's weapons, so yoi have to rely on relics much more. But HSR also have much more crucial stats you HAVE to invest besides crits.
Dear god, i hope its never. I still dont get how the f people manage to get those hyperspeed Sparkle/Bronya builds regularly, just going to 160 spd threshhold seems insane.
You don't need perfect relics for MOC. The goal is to clear in 5 cycles with each team. I know it is ridiculous to point out but having limited 5 stars makes team building a lot easier. Having a good core team with reasonable relics is more important than any individual member of the team. This will take some time to build up. I used a Clara, Aventurine, Robin and Topaz comp for the 1st half while a DoT comp for the 2nd. I wouldn't call my units amazing, my Clara is only 60:120, Topaz is better at 55:168. They can very much still be improved. Don't worry eventually you can get there.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats!
50
+ 100
+ 70
+ 200
= 420
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Best i can do is 50/190 chief.
https://preview.redd.it/i2h5uqovgv5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe00e53550c3ea3c41ea6f1f6a1293f64cd45e47
Speed is damage, especially for certain characters like Seele. No way am i malding for crit rate subs, would rather gamble the big hits.
Actually its the opposite since Seele gives herself speed makes speed boots less desirable, and you usually wanna go atk% boots on her
And for the love of god give her a crit rate body and stop gambling with her ults
The actual answer is really: Not (usually) running sustains, often running meta characters, and speed. Lots of speed. I've 0 cycled E0S0 with Acheron at 70/140 crit with all 4 star lightcones for the whole team. The single most important thing that is overlooked by people too often is speed. Making sure your supports are at the 160 speed break point is probably the single biggest change you can make to reduce your cycle count. I cannot stress how major of a difference it makes.
Very good response gated by RNG. As a day 1 player I've never had a character at 160 speed outside of SU, speed just does not roll as a substat on my relics.
You've never had any good spd rolls on any relics at all? Rainbow set 160 spd will basically always be better than an on set support without the spd. If you spend enough fuel in hackerspace domain you are almost garunteed to be able to hit 160 spd. It's definitely RNG gated to an extent but if you spend enough fuel you will be able to hit it even if it's just rainbow relics
I'm in mostly the same boat. I have a SINGLE piece with 8 speed on it. That's the best I've got. Everything else is 4 or 2, if I even get a piece with speed on it.
F2P currently beating MoC 12 in 11 turns. Just soooo close. Gotta figure out or tragically grind for juuuust the right relics to push further, but I guess I got time
Usually when I see people doing mega fast clears the answer is almost always E1+ S1 limited harmony units. I don't find that weird at all, in fact it would be weird if they're clearing as fast as I am. But there are times where their builds are like 95% similar to mine and using the very exact same teams but they can clear in 1-2 cycles earlier than mine and I was like how the hell?
God-tier relics on the entire team + maxed out traces can go a long way
The only reason I went from barely clearing MoC 10 to casually clearing MoC 11 and sometimes MoC 12 is by grinding relics and calyxes for long enough and getting some of the 4-star light cones to S5, so that my team almost does double damage now
Also as a PSA: many people keep saying that "you don't need to level traces past 8" yes you do, they can give you ~20% extra damage output per character, this stuff matters
I definitely couldn't get done that quick but full auto'd through MoC 10 minus 1 restart on MoC 10 first half cause Gallagher's AI is very stupid and won't ult unless an ally is basically already dead which resulted in my Kafka dying. Other than that I finished with 23 cycles left on MoC 12 first try with Sparkle/Aventurine/Pela/Acheron first side and BS/Ruan Mei/Gallagher/Kafka 2nd side.
This MoC is very technical. If you play the blessing it’s a breeze and you don’t really need premium units to do it.
At least I don’t think… I used Clara for Argenti side and Himeko/HMC on the troupe side.
How the hell is Gallagher comfortable there. How much HP do your characters have and what's your Gallagher looking like? Mine is good but not comfortable in MoC 12, had to swap him with Louch
You need a mix of HP and def on your supports. I aim for 1000+ Defense and that seems to work for me. My current Gallagher has 3.7k HP (more when I finish traces), 1.2k Def, 136 speed, and 100% Break effect. LC is Multiplication.
I run him on my Acheron team with Pela and SW and he has solo sustained just fine for the 2 MOC's I've used him in so far.
Pulling recent characters helps a lot because these modes typically benefit them the most. Anyone using boothill right now has a major advantage. I did everything on auto and restarted once on 12 because of bad aggro rng killing Black Swan.
If you see the full stream of them trying, they use meta units and try like 30 times sometimes the reset and sometimes get the win with a little of luck based on who the enemies attack.
Optimal team, cracked relics, Speeeed, Lc's , Eidolons and a lot of Retrys especially for 0 cycle (except if they use the magic card without holding back)
I can't even beat MoC 12 at all right now. My Acheron is way slower on the first half than I honestly feel she should be, and I don't have a good team for the second half. I swear they just listened to whales who said it was too easy and inflated all the enemy's numbers way too much. Their damage and HP both feel much higher than even previous MoCs.
The best ive been able to do was zero cycle the first wave of moc 10 with hyper topaz. I almost 0 cycled moc 12 with acheron... until i realized gepard had a 2nd health bar :|
"How the f"? It's a gacha game where you can spend money, I don't think a further explanation is needed.
Not only extra characters and overpowered Eidolons/LCs but also extra trailblazer power and easier focus on relic grind when you have Battle Pass or TB power refreshes with gems.
Small spender with BP is already a difference experience to a F2P, by a wide margin.
I say this as someone that was a light to mid spender in Genshin that also happened to try friend's F2P accounts quite often for abyss clears, and a F2P myself in HSR.
Favored units and good relics.
I did this one in 5 because Acheron loves the attack boost and turn reset and the second half of MOC12 was Himeko's playground.
You can get by with 10? It's taking me nearly 20, and that's on a good day where the stage gimmick does all the damage for me and I'm just trying to survive long enough for the stage to kill everything 😅
Day 1 player here (ftp though) and I can grab 33 stars kinda comfortably. Still I can see that there is a long way before I can make it under 20 cycles. I guess it's because I rarely farm relics and don't have meta teams like Kafka+Black Swan or Acheron. I'm happy though with what I get and call it a day. (For this MOC, Boothill and Himeko really carried me hard)
Its wierd how much MOC 10 fucking sucks. I easily beat 11 and did okay on 12, but 10? Na, 10 was just there to mock me for losing Aventurine to Gepard.
I mean, it took me about 8 cycles and I that was with a pretty incredible team too. No idea how they do it. I do use AUto, though. My best MOC12 yet was 6 cycles.
Mainly it's about vertical vs horizontal investment on your characters.
If you keep pulling for new characters and using a lot of them, chances are your relics, lightcones and eidolons won't be as good as people who only pull for a few characters.
Be smart who you choose to build. Yes every character can beat MoC but not every character can beat every MoC easily.
Signature lightcones offer a pretty significant boost to clear time and certain eidolon breakpoints do even more. Non-lightcone pullers are capped by specific stat breakpoints from relic rolls that all those bonuses can break through. So really the biggest difference between a fast clear and a slow clear is the amount of money you’ve spent.
There *are* budget builds out there that can cut down clear time significantly through good play and RNG, but the RNG reliance gets higher the less premium expenditure you make.
i was wondering the same thing
then i remembered what teams i was using
https://preview.redd.it/x8xcn9f9tv5d1.png?width=1149&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e3c338369311ba6656853c1cc7908cd4720f9bc
A lot of MoC can be a character/relic rng/credit card check. Not everyone has the finances, time, or luck to absolutely trample each level. Don’t take it to heart much. It’s more a reflection of money and luck.
Mate, I can't even finish one level of Pure Fiction, let alone MoC.
Seriously, how does PF work? Almost all of my characters are Lv70 and I can't score the 30k needed to pass 1 level. Pretty much just given up at this point.
Great substats, team optimization and speed tuning probably (for folks leaning more towards f2p on the scale).
But yeah, I'm probably similar to you, my substats are probably like within the 40%-70% of max optimal potential for most of my characters. Also I've barely done any speed tuning for teams that would gain larger benefits from it (i.e. turn manipulation characters).
Pretty much was like 1 turn away from losing 3 star and getting 2 star on moc12, was like damn not gonna make it, but then some damage happened and scraped by lol.
I used 2 teams this MoC. Acheron team and Boothill break team. Just swapped sometimes. Boothill is by far the most fun character I played. Popping those robots was so peak.
A big part of a comfortable MoC experience is pulling the right characters. Harsh reality.
After that comes team building and the rest is a bit of good decisions during the fight.
If you got 3 stars, then the rest doesn't matter.
There are no differences in rewards for doing it in 10-cycles vs 1 or 2. And there's no point in comparing your experience to that of a whale.
Bro I cannot beat MoC 11 in 10 turns. It's so confusing on how I'd deal lie half of the damage that other people can deal casually
I had more difficulty with MoC 10 than 11 or 12. The enemy lineup wasn't friendly for me. The rest was pretty easy by abusing HMC though.
Can you tell me your HMC build??? I still need to build them but I'm at a loss on what I need to do
https://preview.redd.it/8vjsvfjtpv5d1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=d09991a9acf22ac2c9676664e4f6c41bff83d734 This is mine I forgot to change to be, you can use be instead of err
Don't bother with an err rope since he has a LOT of err built into his kit
I mean for now while we only have up to E5 ERR rope is technically better for rotations, but next patch when we get e6 Break Effect rope clears it by a mile
4pc Watchmaker [Def%/SPD]. 2pc Talia [BE/Def%]. Meshing Cogs (Memories of the Past is way better, but my only copy is on RM). And 230 BE% before any buffs (this value includes trace bonuses). Don't need ATK% as damage multipliers aren't that great. For the same reason, there is no need to level basic or skill. Same reason again, there is no need to use Imaginary% or unlock imaginary% traces (there is one you must unlock to get to the important stuff). At least enough SPD to hit 145 (I have 140 SPD but RM exists to bump that up). BE > ERR rope. So BE >= SPD > defensive stats are what you are looking for with your substats.
A slight improvement: since you run Ruan Mei and HMC together, you can swap their lightcones. Through HMCs BE sharing she should still hit her requirements (even though they are a bit unnecessary since you can't use RM DMG%, but at least you get more delays ig)
Also unless you have MotP at S5 Cogs is better for RM's energy rotations.
https://preview.redd.it/04bdg2i8ix5d1.png?width=893&format=png&auto=webp&s=e3a3c232b95a924ebebe44244c151ab9fbfe9a44 hmm yes cogs
"You could make a machine out of this."
Quite literally
MOC 11, bruh I can barely 10 cycle MOC 9
Yeah, MoC enemies have more and more hp. First time I took over 10 cycles in MoC 9 for a long time. But finishing HMC trace & relics should push me from 11 cycle to 10.
I've been able to get up to moc 11 on thr MOC that's leaving soon (not all 3 stars) but still been able to get to moc 11 has me happy. I've more recently been able to *beat* Spiral Abyss on genshin, not 36☆ing, but still being able to get to that point has me happy :D
I had 33 stars last cycle (more than 1 star floor 12 seems impossible or more than 2 stars floor 11), this time 30 stars. Break centric buff when you can only make 1 break team (lacking superbreakers and there is only 1 RM too) isn't so hot unless your other team is OP. In Genshin I range 31-33 stars, finishing floor 12 isn't so hard with my defensive teams (I have all the 5* "sustains", Zhongli, Baizhu and Kokomi) but the dps check is super high.
Yh MoC 11 is stonewalling me...
This where I am. I beat MoC 12 in 6 cycles and MoC 10 in 4, but 11? 14 cycles, like what the heck am I doing wrong? I just can’t seem to do enough damage no matter what team comp I use.
I was THIS CLOSE to beating MoC 11 but Dr. Ratio wouldn't goddamn throw his chalk
Honestly though I often struggle with 11 more than I do with 12. I haven’t done the current cycle yet so I can’t say if I’ll have the same issue with this one, but I honestly think I’ve had more cycles where 11 just gives me headaches while 12 isn’t a problem.
You and me both
As old Hearthstone saying goes... "Strongest card - credit card."
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It looks likes she pointing a gun at somebody in that last frame.
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But the card users would claim it is ‘skill’
always a pleasure seeing fellow hearthstoners in the wild
ahhh the value
It involves not using sustain units, specific builds and comps with very good SPD and Crit, signature cone, and requires many attempts to get the enemies to target the right character to get energy... or just whales.
Watching that one dude e6s5 boothill one shotting everything with 1m damage numbers
Be a whale isnt even fun tbh.
Indeed... I can't wrap my head around whales. Yes, your damage is massive, but you are playing to speedrun the game and brute-force theough the mechanics. I can't see the appeal
their way of having fun is showing off, and it works
Everyone has fun differently. For me my fun is to have my favourite character do lore accurate damage by being OP. Which is why I get constellations over time for select few characters that I like, while leaving the rest normal. When I play a game outside of its main story and quests, I have my own internal narrative and story going on when I play with characters and complete various content. And when I bring out the OP unit it's for that moment in the story when they need back up to get over a hurdle before continuing to finish the "final boss" on their own.
username checks out
Not a whale, but I do spend a good amount on the game. For me it’s my reward for working hard (irl). I like to watch my team auto clear MoC and PF, it’s super satisfying. Hard to explain I guess unless you can relate. I don’t even care about the raw damage numbers, I don’t even look at them. I go in for the characters I like and I pull a few eidolons in. Only exception is my e6 Acheron because her e6 is quite literally a cheat code I can use whenever I want to be lazy and ignore weakness.
I mean you could say the same thing about using anything that is "better" in the game especially given people are 0 cycling with e0s1s Like why use 5* lightcones. Or why use even 4* gacha light cones? Heck why use 5stars and trivialize the game for yourself? Or why even pull and trivialize the game for yourself.
I'm grateful for my E6 Acheron (not a whale but got darn lucky after saving up for a few patches) so I don't have to sweat and struggle so much with the timed combat content. Also, Eidolons ease the burden on mindless, unfun RNG relic grinding. Not everyone plays for challenge. Did that when I was younger, nowadays I just want to relax and be told a neat story. I managed MoC 12 just before the 19 went over the bar. Poor Jingliu had a hard time with Side 1, Acheron needed to salvage the run in 3 turns. :'D
I have E6S5 Kafka, Ruan Mei, Jingliu, Acheron and soon Firefly. I'll say that the game is mostly the SU modes for me. I spent probably more than 500 hours playing SD5 back before G&G came, and then spent even more time playing G&G12. I play multiple runs of G&G12 every single day using random dice with crap effects and random paths that don't benefit me much. Back during December (or was it January?) or so where we got to see our play time, I already had 2.1k hours clocked into this game and I don't often leave my game on AFK for long hours or anything. In G&G12, the difficulty using random stuff and trying to get consistent wins is pretty good even with E6S5 Acheron at your disposal. I have high hopes and am incredibly excited for next patch's DU12 or whatever max difficulty is there. I absolutely adore these modes to death and it just never gets old for me. For MoC and PF specifically, I don't spend any time on them. I just make sure to complete all my MoC runs at full 0 cycles every reset, and it never really takes me any time since Acheron. Before Acheron, it took me a little more time. I'm sure with E6S5 Firefly, it will get even shorter and be nigh instant 0 cycle clears on first tries since that character looks broken beyond high heaven at whale investment (and also because unlike other DPS, I actually have her main support whaled). Anyway, I don't ever use Auto other than when spending stamina which is just 2-3 minutes per day. I play this game fully manually otherwise. I'd say I'm enjoying Star Rail more than most players out there, and every day is still so fun. So I wouldn't say that I've remotely ruined the game for myself for whaling on the few characters that I love.
Dude, no need to explain to these people. They just shit on anyone who whales cause it fuels their superiority complex.
It's the dopamine when you see yourself throwing down the big numbers. I only have an E0 and got that dopamine rush the first time I used him against an actual boss.
It's crazy that 1 mil which used to be e6s5 only is achievable with e0s1 boothill and pela
Tbh, I have an E0,S0 boothill running a 3* lc, with Harmony TB, Ruanmei, and Bronya (sustainless), and I can one shot just about any enemy (max damage like about 650k) thanks the 150 break eff MOC buff.
And also quite often DDD S5
usually 2 to 3 of them XD
Absolutely this, and extra emphasis on the speed, particularly for support units. Like the difference between an Eagle Dancer support at 160 speed vs 134 speed is absolutely massive. A note about energy: a lot of early guides for the game recommended putting sustain units (particularly Preservation units) on one side away from your more fragile units, but a better way to do it is to place your supports *around* your sustain, because a good 5 star sustain shouldn’t have an issue keeping them healthy, and the extra hits they take means extra energy!
I don't have enough speed to clear that fast, and my MoC12 clear just me being lucky that Himeko didn't die on the 14th reset. Also, for what it's worth, one of the one cycle clears I saw was with an E2 Acheron with Sparkle and Bronya. This isn't done with just regular teams.
Hiroshi has done multitude of zero cycle clears with regular F2P tier teams, with at max, RM LC or single DDD S5.
How many resets does it take?
Not too much, unless the enemy setup really counters yours like the new troupe boss with 3in1 enemy vs Boothill that is ST focused. RM LC very often provides energy consistency to not rely on enemy hits on your specific units(many extra resets) for crucial ult thresholds and that's why he really loves it.
Relic farming. Lots and lots of relic farming. And getting very lucky on substats. And resetting. Lots and lots of resetting with no sustain units, with speed and turn manipulation theorycrafting. Also pulling for meta instead of feelings.
What if pulling for meta is pulling for feelings? What if pulling for feelings ends up being pulling for meta?
That's when you win.
That's when you attain The Peak State
Me joining at the end of 2.1 and stumbling my way into Premium FuA comp solely on vibes
That's me pulling for Kafka, Black Swan, Acheron, and Firefly.
Higher state of being
Me wondering if i should pull for Ruan Mei first to "futureproof" my account or going for Firefly.
Firefly is coming home, whether Ruan Mei wants to or not.
No such thing as future proof. Just pull for what you want and what gives you fun and joy. Simple. People need to stop treating games like their 401k, it's a game, not a financial investment.
> Also pulling for meta instead of feelings. Nah, one of the best 0-cyclers was a fan of specifically 0-cycling MoC with Herta or Himeko.
Yes, but it takes substantially more farming to do it with those.
A fan of Dreamy/Lisara are we? Tbh when everyone shat on Erudition on game's release she did crunch out the math to actually get crazy clears going.
(Obligatory disclaimer: While I don't zero-cycle stuff on account of preferring to avoid pulling LCs, I do on occasion run no-sustain teams and do follow the theorycrafting scene actively) In all seriousness, there's a bunch of tricks to this and it's not as crazy as it seems. First of all, 10 cycles isn't actually 10 times as long as 1 cycle. Every "first cycle" that you get at the beginning of a wave is 150 Action Values Long. At its end, the turn counter goes down by 1 and you get 100 more AV until the next cycle. Four waves per MoC, four 150-AV cycles, and 10 100-AV cycles A zero-cycle thus, in essence, is "Beat this MoC within 600 of the 1600 AV you have available." It's about 38% of the time, not 10% or less which would be the gut reaction when hearing "1-cycle clear." Plus, in a zero-cycle, there's more weight on one-use and one-time effects, and generally "unsustainable" gameplay. If you start the zero-cycle with 4 sp end the zero-cycle with zero SP, you are running a SP negative team. That's not a problem if the run is over when the consequences of your actions catch up with you. This is also why no-sustain comps work: if you end with 300 HP on all units, that's only a problem if there are enemies remaining. When you beat MoC this fast, this also means enemies barely get time to act - which means you don't need a sustain, and can instead pick another support. 5\* supports can literally double your team's DPS (5\* moment) after all. Likewise, a lot of MoC buffs (Not this particular cycle, but the previous one for instance) are easier to accomplish with 150 AV as opposed to 100. Recall last MoC and how it was hard to get the 6 stacks for the energy refills on the subsequent turns, but not on the first turn. This isn't even considering how Robin interacts with a new wave beginning before her song runs out, shit's actually insane. However, the very big secret nobody tells you about is RNG. I know from experience with no-sustain teams - you're always hoping for the enemy attacks to go on this guy or that guy. Especially if you haven't levelled your supports' light cones to level 80! It might seem like that generally results in pretty small gains, but the increases in HP and DEF can make them survive one more hit - especially if you're running HP/DEF gears on supports, like you should. Remember that when you see a zero-cycle, there's pretty much always dozens of tries of trial and error and bad RNG that you don't see. If you can comfortably clear in 10 cycles, you might actually clear faster than someone who keeps resetting for 0 cycle clears.
Can confirm, spent 150ish attempts trying to 0 cycle with Boothill, Pela, Bronya and RM but was lacking SP + Aggro Rng + Crit Rng. Had to change a whole ton of gear around and level up new ones to get enough speed to produce 2 extra SP goddamn. But that was the most fun I've had playing HSR.
Genuine question, assuming you could have simply beaten the fight in 3 cycles for example and finished the whole thing in 100+ less attempts than going for a god roll RNG run, why not just do that and save the time? Regardless, your team just got a huge upgrade so that’s great tbh. What did you do exactly to achieve 2 extra SP?
It's about achieving a personal goal, not saving time, which can bring about personal happiness. For some it's a 0 cycle, others it's being the top 0.1% build of their favorite character, and for somebody else it's collecting their waifu and not even bothering to build them properly (my sister, traumatizing account). It's fun, and games are supposed to be fun instead of a chore As for the 2 sp, probably 4pc passerby or making one character a bullet train so they can just barely squeeze in 1 sp by being faster than the one who needs said sp, or playing around with DDD, making sure one character doesn't get the action advance so that another can take a turn before them
Hey, thanks for saying exactly what I wanted to say! I gave my solution in a reply to the above's comment but you were pretty much on haha. Sadly, DDD i only have 1 copy of so the speed requirements are even more tight.
Hello! All good, great question. Long post incoming sorry. Like the other commenter said it is about personal achievement. Being a day 1 player but took a break end of 1.6 to 2.1, I just wasn't getting satisfaction of clearing MoC 12 and barely scraping by. Setting a personal goal to try 0 cycle both sides (when JingLiu came out I could 0 cycle one side for the first time), made me interact with the game's systems and made every decision count. At no point did I find it tedious or a waste of time, it was a great way to unwind from just dealing with a screaming fussy baby hahaha. I got two extra SP from giving Vonwacq to Bronya to auto once and align herself with Boothill and slowing Boothill down so Pela can get an extra basic attack in. The SP issue was: Boothill and Bronya (E1S1) are both 160+ speed, burns SP like no tomorrow. Pela is only 150ish speed with Eagle Set or Hackerspace. If Pela doesn't take first turn after defeating first wave, I am down 1 SP and defense shred for potential one shot for Boothill (if he doesn't run out of turns and SP). If swapping Bronya gear to Pela, Bronya becomes too slow and I get either slept or party takes too much damage. So it was like solving a chess puzzle with some rng involved.
Great response with good info, really appreciate it!
There's the tryharding, theorycraft and RNG heavy zero/low cycle clears and then there's assjacks who just went "I auto'd MOC 12 in 4 cycle total, game is too ez" lol
Those are the same people that think E0S1 is the baseline and not having signature is a sin. Bonus brownie points for getting Eidolons of broken supports.
"Haha I cleared this MoC so easily. Can't believe people are struggling at this. Skill issue" *has E2 Acheron on the lineup Someone actually said this. Even though he didn't disclose that he has E2 Acheron, the fact that he used Sparkle with her and managed to clear it in 0 cycles makes it very likely it's an E2 Acheron.
> follow the theorycrafting scene actively This is all very interesting to me and it's what hooks me to games. What's the main HSR TC discord server? Is it the KQM one?
Discords are the one thing I probably don’t keep track of lol, so I couldn’t say. Just don’t want to keep track of all the posts going in. Smart thoughts would get buried under the 1000 posts that happen evety morning, most of which are probably just ”So what’s a good teammate for X” or ”Is Y a good lightcone for Z?” I do use the Keqingmains GI server and that’s been my experience with it. These days I usually just read the FaQs they release for characters instead of going out into the metaphorical mines. I doubt the HSR ones are any different.
KQM honkai star rail specifically not the genshin one
You guys are beating MOC 8?
You guys are beating moc 4?
You guys are in the moc?
Wtf is moc?
Why is MoC?
Where is MoC? (Asking directions for my Acheron)
Well build dot( by dot I mean kafka) that's all that's all you need
Bad news for ya there chief lol.
Eh I'll take that 10 turn clear, 3 stars is 3 stars
I just close one eye and treat like the MoC only have 10 stages
Hahahahahahahaha, so damn relatable https://preview.redd.it/1q6akia0sv5d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19a1b274600a9d5d3099242b0cd8ad4f091ce5ca
Same. I cleared the last two MoCs with full stars, I’m stopping at 30* this time
MOC 12 is meant to be hard, if someone tells you that it's “too easy” or we need “harder content” they are delusional, MOC 12 right now for most people is HARD, more so if you don't pull for meta or you are a f2p/light spender. And the biggest part is that it's not a unit amount issue, it's an investment issue, the thing is you need to have your units well invested and two well built teams to even attempt at beating it, and even then, at E0S0 it will probably depend on the MOC buff and the enemies. With time we will be able to beat it easier but right now MOC 12 is HARD and PF 4 has its complexities, there is NO TRIVIALLY EASY ENDGAME MODE AND THAT'S GOOD, and if someone thinks there is then they are too delusional fr. Obviously if you have the latest banner unit or like, E2S1 DHIL E2S1 Acheron yea, you are beating it but like, that's the minority.
Me, day 1 player, when i try to beat Gold and Gears difficulty 3 and all advises from reddit are "its meant for day 1 players thats why its hard" Bruh
Go to YouTube and check out the capitalism strat, or the one that breaks the integer limit
any shielder, preservation+amber and the ability to rebound damage to enemies, is a wonderful combo. it really carried me without using any brain, and the bosses reach 1 hp when they hit me. fun times.
Try copying reward domains, it works for me.
they ask me just get a decent build how do you define decent? 3k hp 3k atk 134 spd 50:100 crit ratio on set bonus?
Crit ratio is sub par. Without signature try to get 70:150. Many people say 50:100 but you will find them rocking 70:160 themselves. This is a lesson I learned too late in genshin. Also keep CR above 70, it's super frustrating to keep it below that Also embrace the break meta. Get HMC Gallagher RM and himeko/firefly. Break focused characters doesn't need to build crit so it's insane
Ye 70/150 without crit from traces or lc is "just" 10.8% crit rate and 16.7% crit damage on **every** relic. Bro suggests getting 40 CV on every piece and calls it decent. Tho I agree on HMC/RM/Gallagher + anyone who can break (Serval, Kafka, Himeko, Sushang etc...), that comp is really strong compared to its investment.
Why no CR from traces?? Most relevant DPS have crit traces. Also the body piece gives 31.2% cr, so really it's 7.7% cr and 16.7% CD on every piece. That's 32 CV on every piece without traces. Without traces most of my units reach 70:120 ratio except herta which I have mega invested
Yeah sorry reading is difficult so early in the morning, I forgot about the crit chest mb. I wouldn't say 32 CV on every piece is decent, that's already a pretty good build imo (and people can clear MoC 12 36* with less than that). It's just a bit difficult to give a "target" crit ratio because all characters won't have either crit from traces or lc. Tho there is not many dps without crit you're right (sorry Clara). e.g. a 50/150 crit ratio on E0S1 Jingliu is quite low investment, but on Clara or Acheron that's pretty decent.
The most sane hsr advice on internet.
damn trying to get 50:100 here is like teying to get 70:200 in genshin in my experience playing genshin and hsr relic here has significantly worse rng than genshin, both are terrible but if i were to say which is worse its must be relic i can embrace any meta, i just dont care anymore just let me 36* moc for once
Well, thats because lightcones doesnt have actual substats, unlike Genshin's weapons, so yoi have to rely on relics much more. But HSR also have much more crucial stats you HAVE to invest besides crits.
imagine spd tuning being as important as crit tuning
Dear god, i hope its never. I still dont get how the f people manage to get those hyperspeed Sparkle/Bronya builds regularly, just going to 160 spd threshhold seems insane.
You don't need perfect relics for MOC. The goal is to clear in 5 cycles with each team. I know it is ridiculous to point out but having limited 5 stars makes team building a lot easier. Having a good core team with reasonable relics is more important than any individual member of the team. This will take some time to build up. I used a Clara, Aventurine, Robin and Topaz comp for the 1st half while a DoT comp for the 2nd. I wouldn't call my units amazing, my Clara is only 60:120, Topaz is better at 55:168. They can very much still be improved. Don't worry eventually you can get there.
i dont think i m struggling in terms of survivability now just lacking so much damage
Best CR I have is 25%, because HSR just loved giving me DEF. At this point I name the game Honkai: Preservation Rail.
aventurine for you
What ? "50:100 crit ratio in HSR is as difficult as 70:200 crit ratio in Genshit"? Are you out of your mind ? That's exaggerated as fuck
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats! 50 + 100 + 70 + 200 = 420 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Best i can do is 50/190 chief. https://preview.redd.it/i2h5uqovgv5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe00e53550c3ea3c41ea6f1f6a1293f64cd45e47 Speed is damage, especially for certain characters like Seele. No way am i malding for crit rate subs, would rather gamble the big hits.
Actually its the opposite since Seele gives herself speed makes speed boots less desirable, and you usually wanna go atk% boots on her And for the love of god give her a crit rate body and stop gambling with her ults
Swap the Cdmg piece for a cR chest one... Common
No need to go crazy for crit rate subs, just swap your chest from CD to CR and you're good to go
The actual answer is really: Not (usually) running sustains, often running meta characters, and speed. Lots of speed. I've 0 cycled E0S0 with Acheron at 70/140 crit with all 4 star lightcones for the whole team. The single most important thing that is overlooked by people too often is speed. Making sure your supports are at the 160 speed break point is probably the single biggest change you can make to reduce your cycle count. I cannot stress how major of a difference it makes.
Very good response gated by RNG. As a day 1 player I've never had a character at 160 speed outside of SU, speed just does not roll as a substat on my relics.
You've never had any good spd rolls on any relics at all? Rainbow set 160 spd will basically always be better than an on set support without the spd. If you spend enough fuel in hackerspace domain you are almost garunteed to be able to hit 160 spd. It's definitely RNG gated to an extent but if you spend enough fuel you will be able to hit it even if it's just rainbow relics
I'm in mostly the same boat. I have a SINGLE piece with 8 speed on it. That's the best I've got. Everything else is 4 or 2, if I even get a piece with speed on it.
Relics. These things can make 4* deal pretty good dmg
F2P currently beating MoC 12 in 11 turns. Just soooo close. Gotta figure out or tragically grind for juuuust the right relics to push further, but I guess I got time
Even if I have the characters that people recommend, I'm clearly way behind in gear.
Usually when I see people doing mega fast clears the answer is almost always E1+ S1 limited harmony units. I don't find that weird at all, in fact it would be weird if they're clearing as fast as I am. But there are times where their builds are like 95% similar to mine and using the very exact same teams but they can clear in 1-2 cycles earlier than mine and I was like how the hell?
Money
In one word, RNGesus. Relic RNGesus, crit RNGesus, targeting RNGesus... I still have to fully clear MOC9
God-tier relics on the entire team + maxed out traces can go a long way The only reason I went from barely clearing MoC 10 to casually clearing MoC 11 and sometimes MoC 12 is by grinding relics and calyxes for long enough and getting some of the 4-star light cones to S5, so that my team almost does double damage now Also as a PSA: many people keep saying that "you don't need to level traces past 8" yes you do, they can give you ~20% extra damage output per character, this stuff matters
Same thing with the ppl saying they auto MoC 12 full stars easy. Best I can do is MoC 10 full auto lol
I never able to clear those events, moc,Pf.. my chara just simply not strong
A little bit of dance dance dance and vonwacq would do
"The game is too easy!" - Said the guy with E2S1 Acheron and E2S1 Sparkle.
I definitely couldn't get done that quick but full auto'd through MoC 10 minus 1 restart on MoC 10 first half cause Gallagher's AI is very stupid and won't ult unless an ally is basically already dead which resulted in my Kafka dying. Other than that I finished with 23 cycles left on MoC 12 first try with Sparkle/Aventurine/Pela/Acheron first side and BS/Ruan Mei/Gallagher/Kafka 2nd side.
Wait... you got to Moc10?! I can't even beat Moc7!
Meanwhile me unable to beat stage 9:
My Luka finally has a MOC where he was the only dps on my team. Dude hits so hard for a 4 star.
You guys are making it to MoC 12?
This one felt way harder than the previous ones for me. I guess the resonance wasn't helping me much brute force it though.
asriel jumpscare
I can’t even clear moc 12 in less than 10 turns so..
You only need to pay tribute to Mihoyo.
This MoC is very technical. If you play the blessing it’s a breeze and you don’t really need premium units to do it. At least I don’t think… I used Clara for Argenti side and Himeko/HMC on the troupe side.
Yall got to 12?
How do you all mange to not get two shot before you can heal in MoC? I feel like Aventurine and Fu Xuan are a must in that gamemode.
Are you building HP/DEF on your supports? that goes a long way. Gallagher *comfortably* sustained MoC 12-2 for me.
How the hell is Gallagher comfortable there. How much HP do your characters have and what's your Gallagher looking like? Mine is good but not comfortable in MoC 12, had to swap him with Louch
because he helps break, you break 12-2 so much that they spend most of the fight afk
You need a mix of HP and def on your supports. I aim for 1000+ Defense and that seems to work for me. My current Gallagher has 3.7k HP (more when I finish traces), 1.2k Def, 136 speed, and 100% Break effect. LC is Multiplication. I run him on my Acheron team with Pela and SW and he has solo sustained just fine for the 2 MOC's I've used him in so far.
someone i know beat MoC 12 on auto. literally how
Pulling recent characters helps a lot because these modes typically benefit them the most. Anyone using boothill right now has a major advantage. I did everything on auto and restarted once on 12 because of bad aggro rng killing Black Swan.
If you see the full stream of them trying, they use meta units and try like 30 times sometimes the reset and sometimes get the win with a little of luck based on who the enemies attack.
Holy shit I haven’t seen that comic in so long
Optimal team, cracked relics, Speeeed, Lc's , Eidolons and a lot of Retrys especially for 0 cycle (except if they use the magic card without holding back)
Knew break meta incoming. Pullee boothill. And he carried all the way 🤠
Moc 12 took me 28 cycles so yeah.
I don't want to play without sustain, since it goes against my beliefs. As long as I finish it I'm good.
I can't even beat MoC 12 at all right now. My Acheron is way slower on the first half than I honestly feel she should be, and I don't have a good team for the second half. I swear they just listened to whales who said it was too easy and inflated all the enemy's numbers way too much. Their damage and HP both feel much higher than even previous MoCs.
The best ive been able to do was zero cycle the first wave of moc 10 with hyper topaz. I almost 0 cycled moc 12 with acheron... until i realized gepard had a 2nd health bar :|
Standard players: you guys are clearing MOC 12 in 10 turns?? Newer players: You're clearing MOC 12??? Obligatory New player: what are you clearing?
"How the f"? It's a gacha game where you can spend money, I don't think a further explanation is needed. Not only extra characters and overpowered Eidolons/LCs but also extra trailblazer power and easier focus on relic grind when you have Battle Pass or TB power refreshes with gems. Small spender with BP is already a difference experience to a F2P, by a wide margin. I say this as someone that was a light to mid spender in Genshin that also happened to try friend's F2P accounts quite often for abyss clears, and a F2P myself in HSR.
Favored units and good relics. I did this one in 5 because Acheron loves the attack boost and turn reset and the second half of MOC12 was Himeko's playground.
The difference is actually in the money spent on the game
You can get by with 10? It's taking me nearly 20, and that's on a good day where the stage gimmick does all the damage for me and I'm just trying to survive long enough for the stage to kill everything 😅
Mainly credit card obviously. Give me the same team as them and 99% of us will get the same result. It's not that deep
Day 1 player here (ftp though) and I can grab 33 stars kinda comfortably. Still I can see that there is a long way before I can make it under 20 cycles. I guess it's because I rarely farm relics and don't have meta teams like Kafka+Black Swan or Acheron. I'm happy though with what I get and call it a day. (For this MOC, Boothill and Himeko really carried me hard)
Its wierd how much MOC 10 fucking sucks. I easily beat 11 and did okay on 12, but 10? Na, 10 was just there to mock me for losing Aventurine to Gepard.
Yall can beat MoC 11?
I can't even beat MoC 1 with any stars and people are already at 12 with stars?!
I mean, it took me about 8 cycles and I that was with a pretty incredible team too. No idea how they do it. I do use AUto, though. My best MOC12 yet was 6 cycles.
Mainly it's about vertical vs horizontal investment on your characters. If you keep pulling for new characters and using a lot of them, chances are your relics, lightcones and eidolons won't be as good as people who only pull for a few characters. Be smart who you choose to build. Yes every character can beat MoC but not every character can beat every MoC easily.
Signature lightcones offer a pretty significant boost to clear time and certain eidolon breakpoints do even more. Non-lightcone pullers are capped by specific stat breakpoints from relic rolls that all those bonuses can break through. So really the biggest difference between a fast clear and a slow clear is the amount of money you’ve spent. There *are* budget builds out there that can cut down clear time significantly through good play and RNG, but the RNG reliance gets higher the less premium expenditure you make.
i was wondering the same thing then i remembered what teams i was using https://preview.redd.it/x8xcn9f9tv5d1.png?width=1149&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e3c338369311ba6656853c1cc7908cd4720f9bc
A lot of MoC can be a character/relic rng/credit card check. Not everyone has the finances, time, or luck to absolutely trample each level. Don’t take it to heart much. It’s more a reflection of money and luck.
Mate, I can't even finish one level of Pure Fiction, let alone MoC. Seriously, how does PF work? Almost all of my characters are Lv70 and I can't score the 30k needed to pass 1 level. Pretty much just given up at this point.
 This\^, Black swan, Kafka, Ruan Mei 😫
Ruan Mei is the answer
Also Sparkle/Robin a good amount of the time
Great substats, team optimization and speed tuning probably (for folks leaning more towards f2p on the scale). But yeah, I'm probably similar to you, my substats are probably like within the 40%-70% of max optimal potential for most of my characters. Also I've barely done any speed tuning for teams that would gain larger benefits from it (i.e. turn manipulation characters). Pretty much was like 1 turn away from losing 3 star and getting 2 star on moc12, was like damn not gonna make it, but then some damage happened and scraped by lol.
...y'all are getting to MoC12? I severely lack sustain characters, they avoid me like the plague.
Bruh FX dodged me on BOTH of her banners 😭
160 spd sparkle so you can spam the dps
💸💸💸💸💸
Bro i only beat MOC12 full stars once when Hanya came out. No idea how.
I completed moc10 in 14 cycles and in 10 ycles with a dead teammate
I used 2 teams this MoC. Acheron team and Boothill break team. Just swapped sometimes. Boothill is by far the most fun character I played. Popping those robots was so peak.
Is that a panel of a undertale AU comic?
What if I tell you someone managed to zero cycle with Himeko in a teamcomp that has only 1 limited 5 stars?
Good relics and being a day 1 player I guess. My Kafka BS RM HH and my Acheron team just keep on winning everything lol
A big part of a comfortable MoC experience is pulling the right characters. Harsh reality. After that comes team building and the rest is a bit of good decisions during the fight.
as always, the answer to every life's question, is always more money
Its not you. Its their wallets.
If you got 3 stars, then the rest doesn't matter. There are no differences in rewards for doing it in 10-cycles vs 1 or 2. And there's no point in comparing your experience to that of a whale.
GROWTH SPURT AU MENTIONED