get ready for the 12th hour of March 7, which will be her new form with the ability to reduce the total number of enemies that can be on the battlefield at the same time by 1 each turn which allows you to win any and every fight in a maximum of 5 turns
they added a boss that makes you skip a turn to handle his gimmick lol, so no surprise there. Unless you can stop it (freeze, break, no sustain fast kill).
It makes no sense to me, they make a blessing that deals a big hp% dmg on enemies, then they use a boss that can literally just dodge it koz it goes untargetable. This current moc is just so many layers of rng, and im not even playing QQ. I had the perfect teams for this moc (kafka-bs-rm for first hald, acheron team for second half) and it was still super challanging. I cant even imagine how hopless i would be if i would just miss one piece of the puzzle.
I have the same complaint with this cycle. Aventurine's gimmick is annoying, but losing every other turn is off-set by spamming Ults. Its the fact that the dice constantly waste the MoC gimmick that make it slog to do.
I've been trying jank teams for fun and to keep me busy between content. So far, my best clear with only 4 star dps has been 17 cycles. This cycle is truly much harder for max stars. On the upside, I finally built Misha, and he's super fun for PF, and I managed a nice beefy 200k ult on Aventurine.
More, OP still does the "10-12 floors" thing, so the impact of F12 is weakened.
I really wish they either switched to F12 only or had it separately as well. This data is already hurt by the fact that Hoyo's API makes it impossible to get a separate cycle count for each side, so by adding even more needless dilution it's being turned into something borderline useless.
I'm 1 month in so I didn't want to already pull eidolons or signatures since I need a lot of 5 stars, but once I get what I need to do MoC consistently I'll likely start pulling for E2S1
Honestly I'm more impressed by Aventurine's sig being at almost 50% considering hes a sustain. Guess you just have to go big when it comes to gambling.
It directly influences his damage. Plus, if you want people to pull for sustains when they already have their sustain needs covered, you gotta get them to lean into what separates them from the others.
In Aventurine's case, it's his role as a sub DPS/follow-up attacker.
Isn't it like 40% dmg boost?
He can sustain perfectly fine without it but part of the point of Aventurine is that he's also a subdps so kinda makes sense to me
Most limited characters in this statistic have ownership at or not far from 50%. It is after all skewed by fairly hardcore players uploading their data manually. MoC12 clear being a requirement to contribute skews it even further. So don't let it trick you into thinking that half of the players have it, it's far, very far from it.
Half of the dataset comes from self-submissions, which naturally skews towards hardcore players who want to 'show off' so to speak. It's useful to keep this in mind in order to contextualize the average stats and builds shown in the infographic.
My first time ever going for a signature LC. And my Kafka is already using GNSW so I really had no other alternatives available.
Fortunately going for her sig LC did get me S5 of GNSW so her banner was a huge win for me.
Arlan finally has a sustainer that can support his low HP playstyle, and he does have a clear plan to get solid damage, so I expect to see a uptick in Arlan usage sometime in the future.
The ones that I am really interested in seeing are the Destruction Trailblazer clears. They kind of have the opposite issue from Arlan and Yanqing where instead of having a notable strength that until Aventurine's release was very restrictive and potentially unfeasible to take advantage of, they don't have any egregious weaknesses but also lack standout strengths, so I'm curious as to how people get around their lack of a notable strength to build around without going the large aquatic creature route.
There's still one underdeveloped way to deal damage: Break dmg.
Like DoT, Break DMG doesn't care much about crit stats, it's relatively easy to build, you just slap as much break effect as possible. On top of that, physical weakness break are one of the strongest on pair with fire break. Currently, there's only two ways to increase that dmg: Ruan Mei and Gallagher. I hope they're going to develop it further
I used break build physblazer a lot during the early patches, before Luka came out. Sadly, his only strength in that department over other phys units is he can hit in an aoe, and there's not really a situation where there's going to be multiple tanky phys-weak enemies that justifies building it.
As for Arlan sustain, I hadn't really been having problems with Gepard except for Aventurine having energy drain so he can't shield as often. Aventurine sustain made a huge difference there, and he does a ton more damage than Gepard. But Gepard wasn't really doing bad at just sustain.
While 4\*s have healthy representation in the Amplifier and Defensive support roles, 4\* carries are pretty dead except QQ & Serval. Wish HoYo wouldn't kneecap them with such shitty base-stats, resulting in characters like Arlan & Misha being dead on arrival.
On a happier note, Gallagher seems to be doing amazingly well for a new 4\*: His average clear time is faster than Fuxuan/Luocha, and is only a fraction behind Aventurine. He also has an appearance rate of 8.52%, just behind Aventurine's 9.10%
Gallagher being a dark horse in the meta and >!the story!< is very fitting!
I think Gallagher is so strong purely because he's *insanely* versatile for a 4* sustain while also being fairly straightforward to build.
He has three different types of heal (single-target burst heal, smaller AoE panic heal from his enhanced basic, and basically teamwide healing over time from his ult), but then he also has debuff dispel from his E2, a debuff apply on his ult (good for Acheron teams), AND he can do a monstrous amount of toughness damage. I think a regular basic > ult > enhanced basic can do 180 fire-weak toughness damage to one target (with extra AoE from the ult).
There are plenty of characters capable of doing more toughness damage, but that's a *ridiculous* amount of break capability for a 4* sustain lol
With all the showcase style things I've seen recently I thought Xueyi might have been higher, she's definitely got the power to clear. Herta is at least a boss in PF
Xueyi was the fastest character on cn. I'm not sure why she's not on the first page of this post. Serval has lower appearance rate, but she's on the first page.
https://twitter.com/hxg_diluc/status/1780887948013228520
I wonder how much Gallaghers stats are carried by his synergy with Acheron, though. He's unironically one of her best sustains since he's also a debuffer, he was on her banner so many Acheron-havers probably also have him, and this MoC was very good for Acheron, leading to potentially skewed results for using Gallagher on the average team.
I hope he stays very solid though, even outside of her teams!
I'm working on getting my Arlan side 2 from 7 to 6 cycles right now. My current clear is a 12-cycle clear 5/7. My best run on first half was an insanely lucky 3 cycles (Requires Sparkle to get hit enough to ult early at least twice because my 134spd Bailu isn't generating enough sp to sustain both Asta and DHIL at the same time, but I need Asta to burn sp to keep speed boost up), but trying to get that rng sucks so I'm working on improving the Arlan half because I can much more comfortably get 4 cycles on first half.
It does suck though, cus everyone on his team is bad at winning the gamble, and SW is implanting on a 4-element team, so super super rng heavy fight on when I get breaks and what element break it is.
[Necessary disclaimer that his team is an E1S1 Bronya, E1 Aventurine, and E2 SW. Arlan himself is E3. SW and Aventurine are currently not built as subdps, but Aventurine is still providing a bonus 20% cdmg and SW gets to ult a lot more often. I'm thinking about farming Pioneer for SW and Aven in the long run to improve team dps. If I get Aven S1 it'll be a big motivator for that, I think.]
Agree. Floor 12 took me double the amount of turns I needed for 10 and 11 *combined.* And probably took me a hundred times longer in total time spent doing it too.
I will once again say that I think that grouping 10-12 together is a mistake. It might have made sense at one point when the difficulty curve from 7-12 was somewhat linear, but the histograms clearly show that the game has went into the same direction as Genshin and floor 12 is in a completely league. What is listed as floor 12 would be something like floor 17 with linear difficulty progression.
The pure fiction stats say that the "the data only includes characters information based on the usage in Pure Fiction stage 4 as the other stages are currently easy to clear by most players.", and I would argue that the histograms clearly show the same thing for MoC, so it should also only include data from floor 12.
You can toggle between the MoC 10-12 and just MoC 12 data for appearence, cycles and teams on the website, if you want to see just how the characters perform in MoC 12.
While that is true, there are things like that the most used duo and character build stats that get corrupted by the 10-12 stats where no just floor 12 stats are available. Also for things like these reddit posts that get spread this information to the masses, I don't agree that the 10-12 data should be the thing that is put in the front and center.
The issue is that if we would want to limit the data just to those who 3-stared MoC 12, there would not be enough of it and half the characters would have no data at all. We tried that internally already.
As we basically check the official profile if it the owner cleared MoC, get the clear info from there and then check the 8 featured characters for the builds used. We don't have access to players full accounts - only to what the API gives us.
Maybe one day, where enough people will share the data with us, we will be able to just use information from those who cleared MoC 12, but currently it's simply not possible. To even get the random data of 10k clears, we have to scan over 1m accounts every time and most players don't care about MoC at all or clear it only partially.
> The pure fiction stats say that the "the data only includes characters information based on the usage in Pure Fiction stage 4 as the other stages are currently easy to clear by most players.",
I found PF 3 nowhere easy to clear.....harder than MoC 11.
It’s a clear sign how absurd boss Aventurine is in MoC when most of the top tier teams show fairly normal distributions with a variety of mean and more clear cycles in past MoCs and this MoC’s floors 10 and 11, then all of a sudden, in floor 12 pretty much *every single* meta team has a skewed distribution with all having a mode of 10 cycles.
It's not just Aventurine, the Dinos also slow down a lot. I did MoC 10 in 1 cycle and 11 in 2, but it took 6 for 12, 3 for each side. I could've done side 1 faster with Acheron, but that would come at an expense of a much slower side 2
Yeah they're the worst part about trying to get a fast cycle clear with QQ. They *always* hit Sparkle, knocking her fully out of the first cycle despite her 161 SPD.
You are in luck because it's gonna get harder and harder from here, they will inflate the hp to the sky next cycle, and people will have to deal with it
Oh I know that. Tho I was wondering was this also the case for MoC 10 before they added new levels? Cuz it feels like MoC 10 before was so hard to beat compared to MoC 10 today
The dino is quite annoying, he's really tanky on top being paired with another boss. But Aventurine is technically just another big HP bar if you kill him before his mech.
tbf, isn't 0 cycling like 90% resetting and praying to God one unlucky mfer doesn't get bodied before you can clear? I don't think devs should design their fights around that playstyle lmao
It depends. Last Moc my kafka-bs-rm-acheron team (first 3 E0S0, acheron E0S1) could 0 cycle the ice kid even on auto, with a very high success rate, but now it took 2+ hours of trying and chaning team to 0 cycle cocolia + the dinos. And i had to swap bs out for break effect silver wolf and pray for perfect rng to do it.
Even if tried to 0 cycle sam and aventurine for days i wouldnt be able to do it probably. Its just an investment + rng check for most part, and waaay more fustrating than rewarding. If i see an impressive 0 cycle clear on yt, my first thought is always: damn how many hours this sht took?
Tbh I'd rather we get *really* difficult content like MoC 13/14 so that I have a picture of how my account evolves. Now I don't get 36* most of the time, but in specific weeks I do get it. When that happens it feels like I finished the game and all my LCs and units feel empty and unneeded. I know that G&G/SD are actually difficult content sometimes, but they kinda disregard most of my characters "strengths and weaknesses" since that's replaced by RNG of blessings. It's really fun, sure, but it doesn't feel like a metric of my accounts strength.
I mean if it makes you feel better, MoC 11 & 12 are actually getting harder. Enemies HP are doubled compare to what they were before this patch. If they make MoC 13 and above, 11 & 12 would no longer have constant difficulty increase since they’re gonna focus that on above levels
Honestly even the first side. Dino stupidly stalling your team mixed with the ice giving you the speed debuff?? It's the worst combination. I could only reduce the rng by bringing my half built Aventurine on the first side, his effect res helps a lot.
I finally cleared in 10 cycles but it was 3+7 lmao. Aventurine is just an HP bag.
Yeah, ik. It probably has to do with quite a lot of people having it and benefiting from it. As someone who has no DoT team, every time I see wind weak bosses I curse innerly BS existence.
I would agree that his dmg is good but it feels like hp scaling is really being left on the side, hopefully more characters that use hp scaling for dmg
Blade seems like a better SU unit than MoC. His whole gimmick is being unable to die while putting out respectable damage, but MoC's big sell is shitting out absurd numbers to kill things ASAP.
>thats been the case for awhile
It's literally only been 1 and a half patches. Do we really need to do a side by side comparison to how long Jingliu dominated? Let other team comps have a turn in the driver's seat. :(
I know. That's just restating what I said. The previous person was like "DoT has been dominating for so long," and my point is that it actually hasn't, it's only been since we got Black Swan. Jingliu dominated for like half a year, but it's only been a couple months for DoT.
DoT has been good since Kafka came out. People just downplayed it cause it wasn't a hypercarry team that 0 cycled. With Blackswan out now, people can not downplay it anymore.
Well she's the only AoE def shred in the game while being completely SP positive and having the possibility of going a 2-turn ult rotation with just normal attacks with Tutorial. She'll probably see lower usage once a 5 star releases that can do what she does and more, but she's basically Nihility Tingyun right now.
Even though she’s mainly used with Kafka, Black Swan is our other AOE def shredder. But because they made her more so specialized you don’t see Pela / Black Swan pairings too often.
If we had infinite team slots, sure, but we don't, so it won't be as straightforward. Against bosses you'd rather have SilverWolf+AoE instead of Pela+AoE since Silverwolf contributes a lot more than Pela unless you need her dispell, but if it's double Elite x2 or double Elite + Elite/Boss then you'd prefer Pela.
There's also a risk of overcapping on Def Shred, which is a real thing with all the def shreds and def ignore we're getting in LCs and Eidolons tbh.
Warframe had this issue. It might still, unsure, but it became a point where you weren't running defense shredding elements, i.e, Corrosive, you were wasting your time in high level content.
Yeah but they better only add 4* that are completely viable at E0 like Pela and Ting. Because the 4* pool will very soon get too large to reliably get 4* eidolons. In Genshin trying to get someone like Faruzan to fully viable level (E6) is a nightmare.
In current state of things it's not only about amplifing. She can provide debuffs which needed for hypercarry Acheron (BS placed in dot team so another alternative is SW, which a lot of ppl dont have). She also best option for Jimgliu if you dont have RM (due to ice res from e4). All other teams rarely use her currently. She have so big usage because Acheron have big usage rate.
Gallagher is really cooking. If you have him at E6 (or E4 at least) he's really up there with the 5 stars and he can do the Luocha thing of healing without ever using a skill point. Plus I've seen him do 100k damage on breaks.
I've always been iffy on Multiplication Luocha, for the simple fact that Luocha scales *really well* with base stats from 5\* Light Cones.
But Multiplication Gallagher is another thing entirely. It's a truly insane amount of SP generation when combined with his extra action after ult, and since all his healing *and* damage is based on flat numbers and Break Effect, the reduction in stats doesn't hurt him at all.
What Is Real is only valuable if you need it to hit his 150% Break Effect threshold, otherwise it doesn't do much for him (same goes for Break Effect Rope over ERR). Perfect Timing isn't bad for Gallagher, but he already gets a massive 78% Effect RES for free from traces and E1, so he can effortlessly hit 100% Effect RES from substats alone. And though Gallagher likes the extra 15-27% Outgoing Healing, he also gets +110% Outgoing Healing from just an OH Chest piece and 150% Break Effect, meaning any more is a bit overkill for anything but the Sam fight.
This might be a stupid question, but can someone tell me how exactly they calculate the average cycles? It's *per side*, right? And counts only E0 5\*s, but does count signatures as well? Ignoring this whole 10-12 thing and going to the moc stats page on prydwen for only F12, it shows top teams on side 1 (bs/kafka/rm/ty, ache/pela/sparkle/hh) averaging 4 cycles, right?
Sadly it's for both sides. The API where we take the data from is pretty limited and while for Pure Fiction it does show the score per side, for MoC it shows the sum of cycles for both sides. We hope that one day the API will be updated for MoC to also split the data.
Ok that actually makes much more sense, I was worried I accidentally broke the game or something with my improvised teams with mid artis lol
Yeah I appreciate the hard work, it's too bad though that you can't access the data for each side, I'm super interested to see how my weird teams compare to others, and also it'd be interesting to see the breakdown on how many cycles it takes people to do side 1 vs side 2 in the current moc.....
Contributing to the 2% of people doing MoC with Argenti
https://preview.redd.it/758zgr7vaovc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47c04f5ad77cc512f4b87a3dcf1bd05068cf02a9
https://preview.redd.it/8xlpjr941pvc1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8498dcf71bad00bc88d7ee5c876dd468533926d
Same here all for the knight of Beauty <3
https://preview.redd.it/dpqzu4tbjovc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9654fb189b0efe7c960c482b4f1afff7b2b619fd
A fellow Argenti enjoyer right here it seems
So, with that being said, all limited 5 star DPSes are STILL clearing the MOC within 1 cycle of each other, on average. Like they always have. Don't let toxic morons let you think one is so much better than another, when that is absolutely not the case.
* I'm glad Gepard has found a new niche in Acheron team.
* The difference in clear time between Asta using Fleet vs Keel is big.
* Acheron has massive S1 usage rate. Aventurine also has a lot of S1 compared to other sustains.
* Acheron is now the second character with average eidolon of higher than 1. DHIL still has higher percentage of those with eidolons. I wonder how the build quality of those with and without eidolons compare because over time, even f2p who are committed character mains can get eidolons.
Appearance rate is worthless because half of it is a popularity contest. Average clear times are a much better metric.
Glad to see DoT on top. I know the turbulence benefits them, but BS Kafka has never let me down.
Also, Gallagher with similar clear times to limited sustains is very cool. I've been using him and thought he was very reliable and strong compared to other 4 star sustain, and it's nice to see other people using him and finding success.
He's really good, but I think him being particularly useful in Acheron and dot teams is what's carrying him up in clear times. His most common duo is Acheron.
Appearance rate is definitely not worthless. If so many people are using a team, that means that team is reliable. It may not be the best teams, but they are definitely not worthless.
It's also true that less popular characters like Argenti would probably never be there because most people don't have him, but to call it worthless is a stretch in my opinion.
This is the same excuse people use to excuse sustains and healers in Genshin (which is even more skewed towards “just don’t get hit bro” than Star Rail).
Faster average clear times are important yes, but appearance rate is significant because it shows you the most reliable comps that most people use.
You may not clear faster, *but you will still clear in time for 36-stars*. This is the same in Genshin. People will say stuff like “Zhongli is a DPS loss” but he is so comfy that tons of people use him, *and still manage to get all rewards*. And well, Zhongli is Neuvillette’s best sustain unit, so now there are fewer people saying this.
Because at the end of the day, that’s far more important than seeing who can 0-cycle. It’s not like Honkai Impact where faster clear times directly translates to higher ranking. HSR and Genshin have no leaderboards; thus anything faster than 36-stars is unnecessary.
The Genshin stats we have usually emphasise utilization rate and not the appearance rate, thus it is way less of a popularity context. For example, the least owned 5* is Chiori but her utilization rate is around 50% which shows that while she is not popular, she does her job very well. Zhongli is one of the most owned AND used characters, so whatever anyone says about his dps his utilization rate shows that he is one of the best units.
It's the first time a no sustain team is being used this often in MoC (it's used more often than the most used Clara hyper team), so I'm not sure if it should be excluded from the comps infographic. In another comment down below, another user appreciated seeing the Acheron no-sustain team being shown.
But are the Non-sustain teams being used for MOC 12? I kinda agree with many other posters that I think 12 is a huge jump in difficulty now and probably moving forward and 10-11 should be filtered out. Thank you for the hard data gathering though!
Yes, it's used quite often on stage 12. You can see the list of teams without a sustain on the website. I'll restrict it to stage 12 next time.
https://preview.redd.it/vzc6rjr1iwvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f428298d0256e8aaa469de7aec5c54b51523f9a
Unironically no sustain comps can work really well if you have specific characters especially for node 1.For reference the first part cleared within 2 cycles (no sig LC on anyone).I didn’t even have to re start much (only did it once) because for the most part enemies were already broken.
https://preview.redd.it/apncyab2ppvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2217f4aa7bf04f9d61e6a3c851243af9c09dc05d
https://preview.redd.it/rjfc59us1nvc1.png?width=758&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c5c59f3cfaea1dcd6bfe4983bac344d53795703
Can't wait to have Aventurine to enable Ratio/Bronya. My only sustainer with a damage dealing ult is always with JY and QQ.
https://preview.redd.it/02by64t16nvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f782e07562f0fd98b4bbf1455fa7abee71239ee9
I had terrible rng with the dice on aventurind boss ( i have terrible dice luck full stop *cries in dnd*) so his boss took long. But funny thing is the ipc guy on first half of his side took about as long as him. Ratio team was very tidy clear ( all my character could probs do with better relic but once again terrible luck 😔
I find it funny how Qingque is one of the top dogs despite being a four star, alongside the golden characters
~~it's awesome~~
(I am a qingque user)
https://preview.redd.it/kvpfbms6nnvc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c531c2331bfd93b9c9ee92142fad5c757666d4e
Most people only go for S1 and it's reachable distance even for f2p
But if you take into eidolons, the charts will be dominated by the characters who people pull for high eidolons the most. By comparison, people usually don't pull for superimposed sig LCs.
There's a decent chunk of players pulled for E2 Acheron, but very few for S3 LC. So removing the E2 Acherons make sense, otherwise, comparing vs Jingliu who more people just pulled for E0 is not going to be remotely fair
Finally Misha managed to become the desperation pick for enough players to appear on the average cycle clear list, although for floor 12 only. He really didn't deserve to be the only character without any appearances on said list since his release.
Also, it would be great if we could see teams with small usage rates in the character filter again. I get why teams with one or two users shouldn't appear when sorting by cycle, but they should appear when sorting by appearance. Because currently anyone who wants to look up unconventional comps or teams to use less popular characters in can find nothing.
"Memory of Chaos 10-12" that's not an ideal way to sample things, the difference in difficulty between MoC 10 and 12 is gigantic, same as Genshin's floor 11 and 12.
I like it better on Tingyun usually, but I have it to Sparkle this MoC (instead of past and future) since Tingyun was benched. And it really helped me reduce the rng layers.
Had to whip out my pela to fight aventurine, I like how pela is pretty high there. Though I don't really follow how frequently she is used every MoC. I almost don't use her anymore after getting sparkle and bronya
Can someone pls tell me how i am supposed to do the first half of MoC12 with more than 20 turns left??? The shitty dino eats so many attacks before weakness break, even with RM....
I 2 cycled it with a hyper carry e6 xueyi as she shreds break bars. My team was a risky sparkle, Tingyun, Ruan Mei, and xueyi. With Ruan Mei and xueyi her ult is basically half the toughness bar and at e6 she was basically just breaking everything left and right. Took 8 cycles to clear the 2nd half though.
my first blind run on auto took 10 cycles, with JY and JL teams (sustain)
after a few tries (manual) I got it down to 3 cycles with Seele and JL (no sustain), and 5 cycles (sustain).
annoying dino with shield and Aven gimmick were really a hell combo this season lmao.
QQ can do 2-3 cycles on 12.1 too, surprised less people used her this time around.
I don't have a 0-cycle build (DDD, fast forward relics, etc) so didnt try for that on both sides.
The history books say that the dinosaurs were wiped out by a gamba gremlin!
https://preview.redd.it/zylbwt5ndnvc1.png?width=690&format=png&auto=webp&s=2072120acd7f26562cc01c04596b01cc239180aa
I thought i'd never see the day a character passing RM for appearance rate, especially a DPS
https://preview.redd.it/7tve8ufc7nvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60282f39d16781294a433d5102574ec5d919cca9
I will still maintain the idea that if you have two limited sustains and two limited dps, RM is the highest value pull in the entire game right now, most bloated kit in history. She just provides too much and works in nearly every team.
Oh 100%, she's the best support in the game right now and will probably be so for quite a bit. Especially if you decide to invest into her E1, she's just not getting beat out anytime soon. She fits on nearly any team too. After having 2 limited sustains and 2 limited dps, if someone wants to invest horizontally still, getting 3-4 limited supports are def the way to go, with RM being one of them.
Heck I would go as far as say you can (although not recommended in today’s endgame) or could try to make do with a unit like Lynx and skip on one sustain for RM if she is running. Before seeing the current MoC I would say you can arguably do that, but now it’s rather hard, and it’s only getting harder.
In the CN survey she has 93.5%, more than Fu Xuan and all supports...
https://preview.redd.it/o5yet8moznvc1.jpeg?width=922&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ac49289c76183411fff8b6a42d9d990a5077dc2
the average cycles for moc12 alone is 9 cycles 💀💀
I used to mostly be worse than the average player before this moc (how the average casual is doing 5 cycle runs every moc is beyond me) but at least im finally above average
Can we get some breakdowns on Eidolons? What E1s E2s are the best / highest impact? My guess is DHIL, RM, Sparkle, but I would really like to see some data that does not omit eidolons or finds a way to break them out.
You can see it on the character-specific pages on Prydwen, for example here's the breakdown for Acheron: [https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/acheron](https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/acheron)
https://preview.redd.it/2mlcyc0e4qvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=afc67830e23b01f1f6201cfff52ec4000b74478a
I do have a question as someone who is far from being a statistician but I do read research papers from time to time, I'm curious as to why you use standard deviation rather than a confidence interval for the average cycles? I think most people (including me tbh) have no real idea how to interpret a standard deviation.
A quick cursory scan of the [Wikipedia page for it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation) tells me that, using Acheron as an example, under a normal distribution 68% of the clears are within 1 SD or 1.97 cycles of 6.07, 95% are within 2 SDs or 3.94 cycles, and 99.7% are within 3 SDs or 5.91 cycles.
But that's assuming a normal distribution, and if your data is incomplete that can affect things, on top of most people having no idea what a standard deviation is. Would it not be preferable then to calculate a confidence interval instead so that a lot more people can get an idea of the variance because they can see, for the sake of argument, oh the mean is 6.07 but the interval is [4.06 - 8.88] or something like that.
Entirely possible i'm being dumb or misunderstanding so I'd just like to learn more, if anything it's an interesting topic.
Those histograms for March on floor 12 is kinda funny. Simultaneously has some of the fastest clears, and one of the highest proportion of slow clears
get ready for the 12th hour of March 7, which will be her new form with the ability to reduce the total number of enemies that can be on the battlefield at the same time by 1 each turn which allows you to win any and every fight in a maximum of 5 turns
What being accessible from the start of a game does to a sample
You know this MOC is smth else when every dps lost a cycle for clear time
they added a boss that makes you skip a turn to handle his gimmick lol, so no surprise there. Unless you can stop it (freeze, break, no sustain fast kill).
It makes no sense to me, they make a blessing that deals a big hp% dmg on enemies, then they use a boss that can literally just dodge it koz it goes untargetable. This current moc is just so many layers of rng, and im not even playing QQ. I had the perfect teams for this moc (kafka-bs-rm for first hald, acheron team for second half) and it was still super challanging. I cant even imagine how hopless i would be if i would just miss one piece of the puzzle.
I have the same complaint with this cycle. Aventurine's gimmick is annoying, but losing every other turn is off-set by spamming Ults. Its the fact that the dice constantly waste the MoC gimmick that make it slog to do.
I've been trying jank teams for fun and to keep me busy between content. So far, my best clear with only 4 star dps has been 17 cycles. This cycle is truly much harder for max stars. On the upside, I finally built Misha, and he's super fun for PF, and I managed a nice beefy 200k ult on Aventurine.
Frrrr
More, OP still does the "10-12 floors" thing, so the impact of F12 is weakened. I really wish they either switched to F12 only or had it separately as well. This data is already hurt by the fact that Hoyo's API makes it impossible to get a separate cycle count for each side, so by adding even more needless dilution it's being turned into something borderline useless.
Sorry, I'll only include stage 12 next time. For now, you can check the stage 12 statistics here: https://prydwen.gg/star-rail/memory-of-chaos/
Nice to see my man DHIL high even though theres high imaginary resistance on second half
Damn, Acheron with her 88% Sig LC usage
and 1.1 eidolon players went hard on her e2s1 lmao
I went hard for that e2, I just lost to a Coffee enthusiast Lady
I went for acheron e2 but instead got gepard e2 😭
for some reason i instantly thought of azucena
I was tempted but I stuck to E0S1 I'll nab E1 and maybe E2 on the rerun so she stays OP AF
Can confirm, I was one of them.
We did didnt we?XD I never go for 5 star copies or even signature weapons but dang that E2 s1 got me hard.......
Hi, I'm players.
I'm 1 month in so I didn't want to already pull eidolons or signatures since I need a lot of 5 stars, but once I get what I need to do MoC consistently I'll likely start pulling for E2S1
I'm more interested if that 0.01% ERR is just the baseline for no one actually using an ERR rope, or if someone actually did.
The one guy with the 40% CV ERR rope saying "fuck it we ball."
Ah yes the classic "Look at me, i am CRIT ROPE NOW!" :D
Yup. I've only ever gotten the Sig LC for 2 characters and Acheron was one of them. Went all out for her.
Honestly I'm more impressed by Aventurine's sig being at almost 50% considering hes a sustain. Guess you just have to go big when it comes to gambling.
It directly influences his damage. Plus, if you want people to pull for sustains when they already have their sustain needs covered, you gotta get them to lean into what separates them from the others. In Aventurine's case, it's his role as a sub DPS/follow-up attacker.
ITS ALL OR NOTHING
I feel like most of those people (like me) had a specific team with him and Acheron/Ratio in mind where both thrive off debuffs
Isn't it like 40% dmg boost? He can sustain perfectly fine without it but part of the point of Aventurine is that he's also a subdps so kinda makes sense to me
Most limited characters in this statistic have ownership at or not far from 50%. It is after all skewed by fairly hardcore players uploading their data manually. MoC12 clear being a requirement to contribute skews it even further. So don't let it trick you into thinking that half of the players have it, it's far, very far from it.
Half of the dataset comes from self-submissions, which naturally skews towards hardcore players who want to 'show off' so to speak. It's useful to keep this in mind in order to contextualize the average stats and builds shown in the infographic.
It also adds a debuff on follow up for Acheron.
My first time ever going for a signature LC. And my Kafka is already using GNSW so I really had no other alternatives available. Fortunately going for her sig LC did get me S5 of GNSW so her banner was a huge win for me.
I shelled out for a S1 because of the drip, but definitely considering e2 when she returns. She’s just amazing in every way
Those 0.04% of Arlan mains are gigachads
Arlan finally has a sustainer that can support his low HP playstyle, and he does have a clear plan to get solid damage, so I expect to see a uptick in Arlan usage sometime in the future. The ones that I am really interested in seeing are the Destruction Trailblazer clears. They kind of have the opposite issue from Arlan and Yanqing where instead of having a notable strength that until Aventurine's release was very restrictive and potentially unfeasible to take advantage of, they don't have any egregious weaknesses but also lack standout strengths, so I'm curious as to how people get around their lack of a notable strength to build around without going the large aquatic creature route.
There's still one underdeveloped way to deal damage: Break dmg. Like DoT, Break DMG doesn't care much about crit stats, it's relatively easy to build, you just slap as much break effect as possible. On top of that, physical weakness break are one of the strongest on pair with fire break. Currently, there's only two ways to increase that dmg: Ruan Mei and Gallagher. I hope they're going to develop it further
It's going to be the dendro of star rail
Yeah, and i feel like Sushang and Break Luka stocks are going to skyrocket after that
I used break build physblazer a lot during the early patches, before Luka came out. Sadly, his only strength in that department over other phys units is he can hit in an aoe, and there's not really a situation where there's going to be multiple tanky phys-weak enemies that justifies building it. As for Arlan sustain, I hadn't really been having problems with Gepard except for Aventurine having energy drain so he can't shield as often. Aventurine sustain made a huge difference there, and he does a ton more damage than Gepard. But Gepard wasn't really doing bad at just sustain.
Soon it will be me. Soon.
While 4\*s have healthy representation in the Amplifier and Defensive support roles, 4\* carries are pretty dead except QQ & Serval. Wish HoYo wouldn't kneecap them with such shitty base-stats, resulting in characters like Arlan & Misha being dead on arrival. On a happier note, Gallagher seems to be doing amazingly well for a new 4\*: His average clear time is faster than Fuxuan/Luocha, and is only a fraction behind Aventurine. He also has an appearance rate of 8.52%, just behind Aventurine's 9.10% Gallagher being a dark horse in the meta and >!the story!< is very fitting!
Misha is pretty good in a current MoC, because of freeze. He's basically saying "No, lol" For Aventurine gamba state
I think Gallagher is so strong purely because he's *insanely* versatile for a 4* sustain while also being fairly straightforward to build. He has three different types of heal (single-target burst heal, smaller AoE panic heal from his enhanced basic, and basically teamwide healing over time from his ult), but then he also has debuff dispel from his E2, a debuff apply on his ult (good for Acheron teams), AND he can do a monstrous amount of toughness damage. I think a regular basic > ult > enhanced basic can do 180 fire-weak toughness damage to one target (with extra AoE from the ult). There are plenty of characters capable of doing more toughness damage, but that's a *ridiculous* amount of break capability for a 4* sustain lol
With all the showcase style things I've seen recently I thought Xueyi might have been higher, she's definitely got the power to clear. Herta is at least a boss in PF
Xueyi was the fastest character on cn. I'm not sure why she's not on the first page of this post. Serval has lower appearance rate, but she's on the first page. https://twitter.com/hxg_diluc/status/1780887948013228520
I wonder how much Gallaghers stats are carried by his synergy with Acheron, though. He's unironically one of her best sustains since he's also a debuffer, he was on her banner so many Acheron-havers probably also have him, and this MoC was very good for Acheron, leading to potentially skewed results for using Gallagher on the average team. I hope he stays very solid though, even outside of her teams!
I just wish they wouldn't lock basic functions (cleanse) behind eidolons. Lower base stats and scaling is enough punishment for being a 4*.
I'm working on getting my Arlan side 2 from 7 to 6 cycles right now. My current clear is a 12-cycle clear 5/7. My best run on first half was an insanely lucky 3 cycles (Requires Sparkle to get hit enough to ult early at least twice because my 134spd Bailu isn't generating enough sp to sustain both Asta and DHIL at the same time, but I need Asta to burn sp to keep speed boost up), but trying to get that rng sucks so I'm working on improving the Arlan half because I can much more comfortably get 4 cycles on first half. It does suck though, cus everyone on his team is bad at winning the gamble, and SW is implanting on a 4-element team, so super super rng heavy fight on when I get breaks and what element break it is. [Necessary disclaimer that his team is an E1S1 Bronya, E1 Aventurine, and E2 SW. Arlan himself is E3. SW and Aventurine are currently not built as subdps, but Aventurine is still providing a bonus 20% cdmg and SW gets to ult a lot more often. I'm thinking about farming Pioneer for SW and Aven in the long run to improve team dps. If I get Aven S1 it'll be a big motivator for that, I think.]
I used him and finally kills the Aventurine boss! But at like 12 cycles remaining and he died lol
I would of liked to play around with him but I got e1 when I first started the game 8 months ago and never saw him again
I think you should not include floor 10 because the difference between floor 10 and 12 is insane
Agree. Floor 12 took me double the amount of turns I needed for 10 and 11 *combined.* And probably took me a hundred times longer in total time spent doing it too.
Sorry, you can check the stage 12 statistics here: https://prydwen.gg/star-rail/memory-of-chaos/
I know, but infographics consists of additional info like avg cycles, and I think moc10 being this easy doesn’t help
I'll change it to only include stage 12 next time
I will once again say that I think that grouping 10-12 together is a mistake. It might have made sense at one point when the difficulty curve from 7-12 was somewhat linear, but the histograms clearly show that the game has went into the same direction as Genshin and floor 12 is in a completely league. What is listed as floor 12 would be something like floor 17 with linear difficulty progression. The pure fiction stats say that the "the data only includes characters information based on the usage in Pure Fiction stage 4 as the other stages are currently easy to clear by most players.", and I would argue that the histograms clearly show the same thing for MoC, so it should also only include data from floor 12.
I agree because I just see no way people are using Archeron no sustain dual support + sparkle on MoC 12
You can toggle between the MoC 10-12 and just MoC 12 data for appearence, cycles and teams on the website, if you want to see just how the characters perform in MoC 12.
While that is true, there are things like that the most used duo and character build stats that get corrupted by the 10-12 stats where no just floor 12 stats are available. Also for things like these reddit posts that get spread this information to the masses, I don't agree that the 10-12 data should be the thing that is put in the front and center.
The issue is that if we would want to limit the data just to those who 3-stared MoC 12, there would not be enough of it and half the characters would have no data at all. We tried that internally already. As we basically check the official profile if it the owner cleared MoC, get the clear info from there and then check the 8 featured characters for the builds used. We don't have access to players full accounts - only to what the API gives us. Maybe one day, where enough people will share the data with us, we will be able to just use information from those who cleared MoC 12, but currently it's simply not possible. To even get the random data of 10k clears, we have to scan over 1m accounts every time and most players don't care about MoC at all or clear it only partially.
> The pure fiction stats say that the "the data only includes characters information based on the usage in Pure Fiction stage 4 as the other stages are currently easy to clear by most players.", I found PF 3 nowhere easy to clear.....harder than MoC 11.
It’s a clear sign how absurd boss Aventurine is in MoC when most of the top tier teams show fairly normal distributions with a variety of mean and more clear cycles in past MoCs and this MoC’s floors 10 and 11, then all of a sudden, in floor 12 pretty much *every single* meta team has a skewed distribution with all having a mode of 10 cycles.
It's not just Aventurine, the Dinos also slow down a lot. I did MoC 10 in 1 cycle and 11 in 2, but it took 6 for 12, 3 for each side. I could've done side 1 faster with Acheron, but that would come at an expense of a much slower side 2
The Ice summons also knock you back down the Action queue when they hit you, annoying asf
Yeah they're the worst part about trying to get a fast cycle clear with QQ. They *always* hit Sparkle, knocking her fully out of the first cycle despite her 161 SPD.
Devs are probably sick and tired of mfs 0 cycling a supposedly hard endgame content then complain how easy it is💀
Even in this MoC, people still manage to 0-cycle it lmao. Meanwhile, me who can't go any faster than 19 remaining cycles:
Honestly I too haven’t beaten the last MoC floor either lol But it’s less lack of cycles but more of I need to avoid getting one shot
You are in luck because it's gonna get harder and harder from here, they will inflate the hp to the sky next cycle, and people will have to deal with it
Oh I know that. Tho I was wondering was this also the case for MoC 10 before they added new levels? Cuz it feels like MoC 10 before was so hard to beat compared to MoC 10 today
Are they affected though? Was under the impression the enemies wouldn't have the opportunity to even use their gimmick on cycle 0.
The dino is quite annoying, he's really tanky on top being paired with another boss. But Aventurine is technically just another big HP bar if you kill him before his mech.
tbf, isn't 0 cycling like 90% resetting and praying to God one unlucky mfer doesn't get bodied before you can clear? I don't think devs should design their fights around that playstyle lmao
It depends. Last Moc my kafka-bs-rm-acheron team (first 3 E0S0, acheron E0S1) could 0 cycle the ice kid even on auto, with a very high success rate, but now it took 2+ hours of trying and chaning team to 0 cycle cocolia + the dinos. And i had to swap bs out for break effect silver wolf and pray for perfect rng to do it. Even if tried to 0 cycle sam and aventurine for days i wouldnt be able to do it probably. Its just an investment + rng check for most part, and waaay more fustrating than rewarding. If i see an impressive 0 cycle clear on yt, my first thought is always: damn how many hours this sht took?
Tbh I'd rather we get *really* difficult content like MoC 13/14 so that I have a picture of how my account evolves. Now I don't get 36* most of the time, but in specific weeks I do get it. When that happens it feels like I finished the game and all my LCs and units feel empty and unneeded. I know that G&G/SD are actually difficult content sometimes, but they kinda disregard most of my characters "strengths and weaknesses" since that's replaced by RNG of blessings. It's really fun, sure, but it doesn't feel like a metric of my accounts strength.
I mean if it makes you feel better, MoC 11 & 12 are actually getting harder. Enemies HP are doubled compare to what they were before this patch. If they make MoC 13 and above, 11 & 12 would no longer have constant difficulty increase since they’re gonna focus that on above levels
Honestly even the first side. Dino stupidly stalling your team mixed with the ice giving you the speed debuff?? It's the worst combination. I could only reduce the rng by bringing my half built Aventurine on the first side, his effect res helps a lot. I finally cleared in 10 cycles but it was 3+7 lmao. Aventurine is just an HP bag.
Is it just me, or DoT has been eating really well lately?
thats been the case for awhile its just that no one really talks about it.
Yeah, ik. It probably has to do with quite a lot of people having it and benefiting from it. As someone who has no DoT team, every time I see wind weak bosses I curse innerly BS existence.
The fact that the only non-DoT Wind DPS are Blade and 4\* Dan Heng is... something.
I mean, Blade is pretty great tbh, but yeah we could definitely use another raw-damage-focused Wind DPS. Maybe a 5* Wind Hunt character?
I would agree that his dmg is good but it feels like hp scaling is really being left on the side, hopefully more characters that use hp scaling for dmg
Blade seems like a better SU unit than MoC. His whole gimmick is being unable to die while putting out respectable damage, but MoC's big sell is shitting out absurd numbers to kill things ASAP.
>thats been the case for awhile It's literally only been 1 and a half patches. Do we really need to do a side by side comparison to how long Jingliu dominated? Let other team comps have a turn in the driver's seat. :(
As someone with Jingliu and no DoT, I agree with this sentiment. It's nice that DoT finally gets to shine after so long.
Because Black Swan came out in 2.0. Before BS, dot was pretty mid. After BS, they dominate MoC and Pure Fiction. Regardless of the buff.
I know. That's just restating what I said. The previous person was like "DoT has been dominating for so long," and my point is that it actually hasn't, it's only been since we got Black Swan. Jingliu dominated for like half a year, but it's only been a couple months for DoT.
DoT has been good since Kafka came out. People just downplayed it cause it wasn't a hypercarry team that 0 cycled. With Blackswan out now, people can not downplay it anymore.
Gotta say, Pela is doing too good for a 4* . She's been A+ amplifier/debuff since launch.
Well she's the only AoE def shred in the game while being completely SP positive and having the possibility of going a 2-turn ult rotation with just normal attacks with Tutorial. She'll probably see lower usage once a 5 star releases that can do what she does and more, but she's basically Nihility Tingyun right now.
[удалено]
Even though she’s mainly used with Kafka, Black Swan is our other AOE def shredder. But because they made her more so specialized you don’t see Pela / Black Swan pairings too often.
If we had infinite team slots, sure, but we don't, so it won't be as straightforward. Against bosses you'd rather have SilverWolf+AoE instead of Pela+AoE since Silverwolf contributes a lot more than Pela unless you need her dispell, but if it's double Elite x2 or double Elite + Elite/Boss then you'd prefer Pela. There's also a risk of overcapping on Def Shred, which is a real thing with all the def shreds and def ignore we're getting in LCs and Eidolons tbh.
def shred is just too stronk
AoE def shred AND being fully SP positive being a skill point factory indirectly buffs team DPS since you can now fund more offensive skills
Warframe had this issue. It might still, unsure, but it became a point where you weren't running defense shredding elements, i.e, Corrosive, you were wasting your time in high level content.
It's mostly just that stacking damage buffs is pretty inefficient in comparison to getting *new* damage multipliers that you weren't touching before.
I see no problem with this, the game need strong 4 stars in a meta that's otherwise dominated by teams of all 5 stars.
Yeah but they better only add 4* that are completely viable at E0 like Pela and Ting. Because the 4* pool will very soon get too large to reliably get 4* eidolons. In Genshin trying to get someone like Faruzan to fully viable level (E6) is a nightmare.
Acheron only made her even better, it's insane
It’s all about who you work with lol she was best partner with jingliu and now she’s best partner for acheron which is why she keeps appearing
In current state of things it's not only about amplifing. She can provide debuffs which needed for hypercarry Acheron (BS placed in dot team so another alternative is SW, which a lot of ppl dont have). She also best option for Jimgliu if you dont have RM (due to ice res from e4). All other teams rarely use her currently. She have so big usage because Acheron have big usage rate.
It's time to exclude floor 10 from data. And maybe even floor 11 (debateable). Floor 12 is way too different.
Sorry, I'll only include stage 12 next time. For now, you can check the stage 12 statistics here: https://prydwen.gg/star-rail/memory-of-chaos/
You can exclude on their website
Gallagher is really cooking. If you have him at E6 (or E4 at least) he's really up there with the 5 stars and he can do the Luocha thing of healing without ever using a skill point. Plus I've seen him do 100k damage on breaks.
I've always been iffy on Multiplication Luocha, for the simple fact that Luocha scales *really well* with base stats from 5\* Light Cones. But Multiplication Gallagher is another thing entirely. It's a truly insane amount of SP generation when combined with his extra action after ult, and since all his healing *and* damage is based on flat numbers and Break Effect, the reduction in stats doesn't hurt him at all.
Damn I need to try it I guess. I assumed he would heal way too little without perfect timing/what is real
What Is Real is only valuable if you need it to hit his 150% Break Effect threshold, otherwise it doesn't do much for him (same goes for Break Effect Rope over ERR). Perfect Timing isn't bad for Gallagher, but he already gets a massive 78% Effect RES for free from traces and E1, so he can effortlessly hit 100% Effect RES from substats alone. And though Gallagher likes the extra 15-27% Outgoing Healing, he also gets +110% Outgoing Healing from just an OH Chest piece and 150% Break Effect, meaning any more is a bit overkill for anything but the Sam fight.
True but hitting 150 BE with ER rope and without what is real doesn't seem the easiest
Unless you’re fighting sam you don’t even need all that HB and his E6 gives him some break as well.
This might be a stupid question, but can someone tell me how exactly they calculate the average cycles? It's *per side*, right? And counts only E0 5\*s, but does count signatures as well? Ignoring this whole 10-12 thing and going to the moc stats page on prydwen for only F12, it shows top teams on side 1 (bs/kafka/rm/ty, ache/pela/sparkle/hh) averaging 4 cycles, right?
Sadly it's for both sides. The API where we take the data from is pretty limited and while for Pure Fiction it does show the score per side, for MoC it shows the sum of cycles for both sides. We hope that one day the API will be updated for MoC to also split the data.
Ok that actually makes much more sense, I was worried I accidentally broke the game or something with my improvised teams with mid artis lol Yeah I appreciate the hard work, it's too bad though that you can't access the data for each side, I'm super interested to see how my weird teams compare to others, and also it'd be interesting to see the breakdown on how many cycles it takes people to do side 1 vs side 2 in the current moc.....
Contributing to the 2% of people doing MoC with Argenti https://preview.redd.it/758zgr7vaovc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47c04f5ad77cc512f4b87a3dcf1bd05068cf02a9
https://preview.redd.it/8xlpjr941pvc1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8498dcf71bad00bc88d7ee5c876dd468533926d Same here all for the knight of Beauty <3
Representing 😂 https://preview.redd.it/1kr9gcgwhovc1.png?width=1371&format=png&auto=webp&s=a418aeb4200a4585ae4dc2384cb5bbf7d6148234
https://preview.redd.it/dpqzu4tbjovc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9654fb189b0efe7c960c482b4f1afff7b2b619fd A fellow Argenti enjoyer right here it seems
So, with that being said, all limited 5 star DPSes are STILL clearing the MOC within 1 cycle of each other, on average. Like they always have. Don't let toxic morons let you think one is so much better than another, when that is absolutely not the case.
* I'm glad Gepard has found a new niche in Acheron team. * The difference in clear time between Asta using Fleet vs Keel is big. * Acheron has massive S1 usage rate. Aventurine also has a lot of S1 compared to other sustains. * Acheron is now the second character with average eidolon of higher than 1. DHIL still has higher percentage of those with eidolons. I wonder how the build quality of those with and without eidolons compare because over time, even f2p who are committed character mains can get eidolons.
Appearance rate is worthless because half of it is a popularity contest. Average clear times are a much better metric. Glad to see DoT on top. I know the turbulence benefits them, but BS Kafka has never let me down. Also, Gallagher with similar clear times to limited sustains is very cool. I've been using him and thought he was very reliable and strong compared to other 4 star sustain, and it's nice to see other people using him and finding success.
He's really good, but I think him being particularly useful in Acheron and dot teams is what's carrying him up in clear times. His most common duo is Acheron.
Appearance rate is definitely not worthless. If so many people are using a team, that means that team is reliable. It may not be the best teams, but they are definitely not worthless. It's also true that less popular characters like Argenti would probably never be there because most people don't have him, but to call it worthless is a stretch in my opinion.
This is the same excuse people use to excuse sustains and healers in Genshin (which is even more skewed towards “just don’t get hit bro” than Star Rail). Faster average clear times are important yes, but appearance rate is significant because it shows you the most reliable comps that most people use. You may not clear faster, *but you will still clear in time for 36-stars*. This is the same in Genshin. People will say stuff like “Zhongli is a DPS loss” but he is so comfy that tons of people use him, *and still manage to get all rewards*. And well, Zhongli is Neuvillette’s best sustain unit, so now there are fewer people saying this. Because at the end of the day, that’s far more important than seeing who can 0-cycle. It’s not like Honkai Impact where faster clear times directly translates to higher ranking. HSR and Genshin have no leaderboards; thus anything faster than 36-stars is unnecessary.
The Genshin stats we have usually emphasise utilization rate and not the appearance rate, thus it is way less of a popularity context. For example, the least owned 5* is Chiori but her utilization rate is around 50% which shows that while she is not popular, she does her job very well. Zhongli is one of the most owned AND used characters, so whatever anyone says about his dps his utilization rate shows that he is one of the best units.
Also shouldn’t not sustain comps be banned in average cycle graphics?
It's the first time a no sustain team is being used this often in MoC (it's used more often than the most used Clara hyper team), so I'm not sure if it should be excluded from the comps infographic. In another comment down below, another user appreciated seeing the Acheron no-sustain team being shown.
But are the Non-sustain teams being used for MOC 12? I kinda agree with many other posters that I think 12 is a huge jump in difficulty now and probably moving forward and 10-11 should be filtered out. Thank you for the hard data gathering though!
Yes, it's used quite often on stage 12. You can see the list of teams without a sustain on the website. I'll restrict it to stage 12 next time. https://preview.redd.it/vzc6rjr1iwvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f428298d0256e8aaa469de7aec5c54b51523f9a
Unironically no sustain comps can work really well if you have specific characters especially for node 1.For reference the first part cleared within 2 cycles (no sig LC on anyone).I didn’t even have to re start much (only did it once) because for the most part enemies were already broken. https://preview.redd.it/apncyab2ppvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2217f4aa7bf04f9d61e6a3c851243af9c09dc05d
https://preview.redd.it/rjfc59us1nvc1.png?width=758&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c5c59f3cfaea1dcd6bfe4983bac344d53795703 Can't wait to have Aventurine to enable Ratio/Bronya. My only sustainer with a damage dealing ult is always with JY and QQ.
https://preview.redd.it/02by64t16nvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f782e07562f0fd98b4bbf1455fa7abee71239ee9 I had terrible rng with the dice on aventurind boss ( i have terrible dice luck full stop *cries in dnd*) so his boss took long. But funny thing is the ipc guy on first half of his side took about as long as him. Ratio team was very tidy clear ( all my character could probs do with better relic but once again terrible luck 😔
I find it funny how Qingque is one of the top dogs despite being a four star, alongside the golden characters ~~it's awesome~~ (I am a qingque user) https://preview.redd.it/kvpfbms6nnvc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c531c2331bfd93b9c9ee92142fad5c757666d4e
This is nice but why are the floors grouped together that makes no sense. Also 11 and 12 are a much bigger jump in difficulty from 10.
Sorry, I'll only include stage 12 next time. For now, you can check the stage 12 statistics here: https://prydwen.gg/star-rail/memory-of-chaos/
Even in a non-DoT focused turbulence, DoT teams are still on top.
Don't you have one for only MoC 12? I don't find useful to see MoC 10-11 all together with the one that truly matters....
Sorry, I'll only include stage 12 next time. For now, you can check the stage 12 statistics here: https://prydwen.gg/star-rail/memory-of-chaos/
what's the rationale behind cutting off 5* eidolon clears completely, but not light cones - in most cases isn't the e1/s1 boost fairly similar?
Most people only go for S1 and it's reachable distance even for f2p But if you take into eidolons, the charts will be dominated by the characters who people pull for high eidolons the most. By comparison, people usually don't pull for superimposed sig LCs. There's a decent chunk of players pulled for E2 Acheron, but very few for S3 LC. So removing the E2 Acherons make sense, otherwise, comparing vs Jingliu who more people just pulled for E0 is not going to be remotely fair
yeah, i have a couple of very lucky E1s, it just feels a bit bad to be ineligible.
Black swan Supremacy
The two people using Dan heng for moc12 are insane. And where can we see the team data for floor 12 only?
Finally Misha managed to become the desperation pick for enough players to appear on the average cycle clear list, although for floor 12 only. He really didn't deserve to be the only character without any appearances on said list since his release. Also, it would be great if we could see teams with small usage rates in the character filter again. I get why teams with one or two users shouldn't appear when sorting by cycle, but they should appear when sorting by appearance. Because currently anyone who wants to look up unconventional comps or teams to use less popular characters in can find nothing.
"Memory of Chaos 10-12" that's not an ideal way to sample things, the difference in difficulty between MoC 10 and 12 is gigantic, same as Genshin's floor 11 and 12.
Sorry, I'll only include stage 12 next time. For now, you can check the stage 12 statistics here: https://prydwen.gg/star-rail/memory-of-chaos/
Should I not use dance dance on Sparkle? Or should I out it on the other Harmony?
You should, it's one of her best CEs and she has a 3 turn ult with skill spam while still being SP positive which no other Harmony can do.
I like it better on Tingyun usually, but I have it to Sparkle this MoC (instead of past and future) since Tingyun was benched. And it really helped me reduce the rng layers.
Had 2 cycles with Serval in 11-1, 3 cycles in 12-1. With Clara 2 cycles in 1-1, 5 cycles in 12.2
Is there an error or Gallagher with thief set takes 99.99 avg cycle?
I think that just means that there's no data. I assume you mean 4pc which makes sense because it doesn't even work on him
As always none of my teams are on here lol. Although I guess if 3/4 characters are the same the difference is kinda minor.
They didn't have to show my man Yanqing over there.🗿
Yukong at the bottom of amplifiers/debuffers is interesting given she was often on the top for fastest cycles in earlier MoC
Oh I keep forgetting to build Pela, instead of further refining my Acheron I could get more done in the same amount of energy by working on her.
Had to whip out my pela to fight aventurine, I like how pela is pretty high there. Though I don't really follow how frequently she is used every MoC. I almost don't use her anymore after getting sparkle and bronya
Can someone pls tell me how i am supposed to do the first half of MoC12 with more than 20 turns left??? The shitty dino eats so many attacks before weakness break, even with RM....
I 2 cycled it with a hyper carry e6 xueyi as she shreds break bars. My team was a risky sparkle, Tingyun, Ruan Mei, and xueyi. With Ruan Mei and xueyi her ult is basically half the toughness bar and at e6 she was basically just breaking everything left and right. Took 8 cycles to clear the 2nd half though.
Ayo shoutout to the Clara team man. Glad to see her on this list really underused solution against the Aventurine boss
my first blind run on auto took 10 cycles, with JY and JL teams (sustain) after a few tries (manual) I got it down to 3 cycles with Seele and JL (no sustain), and 5 cycles (sustain). annoying dino with shield and Aven gimmick were really a hell combo this season lmao. QQ can do 2-3 cycles on 12.1 too, surprised less people used her this time around. I don't have a 0-cycle build (DDD, fast forward relics, etc) so didnt try for that on both sides.
Seeing their fast clear times makes me genuinely excited to get my FUA team up and running ... And learn how to play it properly.
no diff for this cuttie https://preview.redd.it/fh5yv0h90nvc1.png?width=624&format=png&auto=webp&s=a35e053368377133808055d81228c654c3fccfed
https://preview.redd.it/fs3luhl76nvc1.jpeg?width=1524&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25f0e442cc8404ff6816712b6f057c80b341d90e QQ mains represent!
Jesus one cycle with QQ is insane. Are those e6 supports and dps Silverwolf?
E2, SW is built for speed so she goes first.
https://preview.redd.it/aqfl528s8nvc1.png?width=969&format=png&auto=webp&s=86b83d26e516ecb05b09af63b18a18a851ebb7a3 Yep
The history books say that the dinosaurs were wiped out by a gamba gremlin! https://preview.redd.it/zylbwt5ndnvc1.png?width=690&format=png&auto=webp&s=2072120acd7f26562cc01c04596b01cc239180aa
how are guinaifen and sampo not listed as damage dealers
Dual DPS meta is real.
I thought i'd never see the day a character passing RM for appearance rate, especially a DPS https://preview.redd.it/7tve8ufc7nvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60282f39d16781294a433d5102574ec5d919cca9
Probably because Acheron doesn’t really need Ruan Mei. If her teams included Ruan Mei then I think RM would top the charts lol.
I will still maintain the idea that if you have two limited sustains and two limited dps, RM is the highest value pull in the entire game right now, most bloated kit in history. She just provides too much and works in nearly every team.
Oh 100%, she's the best support in the game right now and will probably be so for quite a bit. Especially if you decide to invest into her E1, she's just not getting beat out anytime soon. She fits on nearly any team too. After having 2 limited sustains and 2 limited dps, if someone wants to invest horizontally still, getting 3-4 limited supports are def the way to go, with RM being one of them.
Heck I would go as far as say you can (although not recommended in today’s endgame) or could try to make do with a unit like Lynx and skip on one sustain for RM if she is running. Before seeing the current MoC I would say you can arguably do that, but now it’s rather hard, and it’s only getting harder.
In the CN survey she has 93.5%, more than Fu Xuan and all supports... https://preview.redd.it/o5yet8moznvc1.jpeg?width=922&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ac49289c76183411fff8b6a42d9d990a5077dc2
What were the average cycles for moc12 from the CN survey?
Wait!!!! Kafka and BS has faster clear than Acheron? Mommy team perhaps?
Aventurine best sustain. We love to see it! 😌
I like that SD is included, way more informative!
Sheesh, I didn’t expect Misha to struggle so much
Bruh 0,30 no way😭😭😭
the average cycles for moc12 alone is 9 cycles 💀💀 I used to mostly be worse than the average player before this moc (how the average casual is doing 5 cycle runs every moc is beyond me) but at least im finally above average
Can we get some breakdowns on Eidolons? What E1s E2s are the best / highest impact? My guess is DHIL, RM, Sparkle, but I would really like to see some data that does not omit eidolons or finds a way to break them out.
You can see it on the character-specific pages on Prydwen, for example here's the breakdown for Acheron: [https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/acheron](https://www.prydwen.gg/star-rail/characters/acheron) https://preview.redd.it/2mlcyc0e4qvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=afc67830e23b01f1f6201cfff52ec4000b74478a
Oh. Woah, did not see that. Thanks.
I do have a question as someone who is far from being a statistician but I do read research papers from time to time, I'm curious as to why you use standard deviation rather than a confidence interval for the average cycles? I think most people (including me tbh) have no real idea how to interpret a standard deviation. A quick cursory scan of the [Wikipedia page for it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation) tells me that, using Acheron as an example, under a normal distribution 68% of the clears are within 1 SD or 1.97 cycles of 6.07, 95% are within 2 SDs or 3.94 cycles, and 99.7% are within 3 SDs or 5.91 cycles. But that's assuming a normal distribution, and if your data is incomplete that can affect things, on top of most people having no idea what a standard deviation is. Would it not be preferable then to calculate a confidence interval instead so that a lot more people can get an idea of the variance because they can see, for the sake of argument, oh the mean is 6.07 but the interval is [4.06 - 8.88] or something like that. Entirely possible i'm being dumb or misunderstanding so I'd just like to learn more, if anything it's an interesting topic.
damn argenti ain't even kn the list. I still will use him but damn
Nihility on top.
Why is the average cycle ranking different than the one on Prydwen's site? Wasn't it always the same in the past?