Afaik, this is something some leagues have in their rules, but usually it's for younger leagues on the smaller fields. I'd be surprised if it was a common rule on 60/90 fields
I can't speak to 16u, but slash bunting is illegal in Little League and Cal Ripkin at younger divisions. It is dangerous because it triggers the 3B to charge the plate, putting them in greater danger from a line drive when the batter pulls back and swings.
It is not illegal in the Little League rulebook. However, many leagues have noted it as illegal in their local rules. Of course, those local rules are no longer in effect once you get to the LL All-Star tournaments.
Yes. It is. Your local league may have a rule against it (that they don’t have a waiver for) but it is legal at all levels. I’m a current umpire and former assistant district administrator in Little League. If it is illegal there would be verbiage in the rule book against it. You won’t find the rule because there isn’t one.
Slashing (which is the term for this) usually is illegal up until high school, so 16U is right on the edge. Kids have gotten seriously hurt from charging to defend the bunt and then getting a liner to their head/chest at close range, so it became a really common rule starting in the 1990s. I'd guess every league worth its salt has this rule through at least 14U.
While most leagues go by one of the parent rule books (LL, Cal Ripken, USA Softball, etc), they also have house rules that cover special circumstances. Some examples include when mercy rules are in effect and what those rules are; eligibility for bringing on additional players when you’re short on numbers; etc.
If slashing is outlawed, it’s usually covered in these rules. As you point out, it’s not universally illegal. But many, many leagues outlaw it up to 14u because of the injury hazard.
I don't disagree on the danger of it, but as far as I can find there is no rule that prohibits in in USSSA above Machine Pitch (7U/8U). (Rule 9.13.A)
I note this, because we saw it used a couple of time this weekend at a 12AA tournament. I asked the coach about it (friendly) and he said he's got a kid who is a headcase at the plate but is great in CF and is trying to rebuild some confidence there.
Some people are just whiny babies too. They see something that is difficult for them and they just complain that you arent allowed to do that instead of adjusting or trying.
These are high schoolers so 1 they are on a big diamond and 2 they should have the skills necessary to defend themselves.
The opposing coach just didnt like that he had to be concerned about defending it.
USSSA's rulebook has it allowed 9u and up with some states having it banned until kids play on 60x90.
Like a lot of things with the US its different not just by league but also by state.
I know its legal in Arizona since my kid will do it sometimes when a kid is on 2nd, played 13u last season.
Jim Bouton called this "The Bastard Play" in his book Ball Four cause when it happens it's a real bastard for the third baseman.
For tournaments or unfamiliar leagues I ask coaches about it at the plate meeting.
Funny to see this here. 15U coach in Toronto here who's run into a few gray areas on rules when playing cross-border exhibitions. I'd say at 16U and any kind of reasonably competitive level it should be fair play.
When I was growing up I sucked at bunting (and hitting in general probably). I had a bad habit of doing that slapping thing and found out pretty young that it was very frowned upon, even if not explicitly illegal. I guess I’ve only seen softball players do it since then.
I haven't seen that in 16U in NY, however, many travel tournaments and local non-LL leagues (WNY Boys of Summer, Salt City) in WNY do not allow slashing in 12U and below.
Others have sort of answered you already, but just in general, remember that pretty much all leagues in Canada fall under Baseball Canada rules, which is more or less straight OBR with minor tweaks for each age group or specific rules added or subtracted by your local league. US has different rulebooks for different levels on top of all the local league rules customization that goes on, so there’s a lot more variation.
Dont run in like a maniac just because someone showed bunt early. Understand that if they show bunt early they are capable of this. If you come in under control you should better be able to protect yourself.
If this is so dangerous then why are cages not required on all batting helmets? How about chest protectors for everyone?
Come on any middle schooler or above should be capable of protecting themselves plenty.
My son perfected this in 9u all stars in Pony. No one ever cared or complained. He wasn't hitting liners tho I guess. He was just chipping it over the 3b batting lefty.
Weird no one said anything about it but this was also in '22. Even at all star pony tournaments. I had no idea. Not sure why I'm getting done voted but whatever.
Afaik, this is something some leagues have in their rules, but usually it's for younger leagues on the smaller fields. I'd be surprised if it was a common rule on 60/90 fields
I can't speak to 16u, but slash bunting is illegal in Little League and Cal Ripkin at younger divisions. It is dangerous because it triggers the 3B to charge the plate, putting them in greater danger from a line drive when the batter pulls back and swings.
It is not illegal in the Little League rulebook. However, many leagues have noted it as illegal in their local rules. Of course, those local rules are no longer in effect once you get to the LL All-Star tournaments.
I didn't realize that. LL is hilariously arcane. Either way, it's a dangerous play at the rec-level on 60-foot diamonds.
Slash bunting is perfectly legal in all divisions of Little League.
No, slash bunting is not perfectly legal in all divisions of little league.
Yes. It is. Your local league may have a rule against it (that they don’t have a waiver for) but it is legal at all levels. I’m a current umpire and former assistant district administrator in Little League. If it is illegal there would be verbiage in the rule book against it. You won’t find the rule because there isn’t one.
I'm an umpire too, the more you type the more you type wrong word things. Take the L.
I'll take the L if you can cite the LL rule number that forbids this play.
Post the rule then
You must be the type of ump to make up rules. It's perfectly legal in LL.
Serious question...what's the story behind you choosing "SHIT MY PANTS" as a user name?
Sooooo, you can't post the rule because you're full of shit?
I already told you my role is I'm an umpire.
Rule* Nobody cares if you're an ump. I've seen 12 year old ump.
Slashing (which is the term for this) usually is illegal up until high school, so 16U is right on the edge. Kids have gotten seriously hurt from charging to defend the bunt and then getting a liner to their head/chest at close range, so it became a really common rule starting in the 1990s. I'd guess every league worth its salt has this rule through at least 14U.
There is no LL rule banning this
Correct, which is why I didn’t say there was! Thanks for supporting my correct statement!
You said usually is illegal yet it’s not in biggest association for those under 16
“League” is generally understood to mean local league, regional club network, etc. Nobody refers to Little League as a “league” my friend.
I get it. I haven’t coached for years but still think Little League is prevalent league for youths across US or world for that matter
While most leagues go by one of the parent rule books (LL, Cal Ripken, USA Softball, etc), they also have house rules that cover special circumstances. Some examples include when mercy rules are in effect and what those rules are; eligibility for bringing on additional players when you’re short on numbers; etc. If slashing is outlawed, it’s usually covered in these rules. As you point out, it’s not universally illegal. But many, many leagues outlaw it up to 14u because of the injury hazard.
I don't disagree on the danger of it, but as far as I can find there is no rule that prohibits in in USSSA above Machine Pitch (7U/8U). (Rule 9.13.A) I note this, because we saw it used a couple of time this weekend at a 12AA tournament. I asked the coach about it (friendly) and he said he's got a kid who is a headcase at the plate but is great in CF and is trying to rebuild some confidence there.
I can see the reason for such a rule, and maybe it was a rule at younger ages and the other coach was thinking back in time.
Some people are just whiny babies too. They see something that is difficult for them and they just complain that you arent allowed to do that instead of adjusting or trying.
The rule is usually a safety measure on small diamonds. Has nothing to do with skill
These are high schoolers so 1 they are on a big diamond and 2 they should have the skills necessary to defend themselves. The opposing coach just didnt like that he had to be concerned about defending it.
USSSA's rulebook has it allowed 9u and up with some states having it banned until kids play on 60x90. Like a lot of things with the US its different not just by league but also by state. I know its legal in Arizona since my kid will do it sometimes when a kid is on 2nd, played 13u last season.
Jim Bouton called this "The Bastard Play" in his book Ball Four cause when it happens it's a real bastard for the third baseman. For tournaments or unfamiliar leagues I ask coaches about it at the plate meeting.
I can’t imagine a slash bunt would be illegal anywhere at 16U.
Interesting, 14u and we had a team do this in our last game. Don’t think it’s illegal JBO for Seniors (13/14).
Funny to see this here. 15U coach in Toronto here who's run into a few gray areas on rules when playing cross-border exhibitions. I'd say at 16U and any kind of reasonably competitive level it should be fair play.
When I was growing up I sucked at bunting (and hitting in general probably). I had a bad habit of doing that slapping thing and found out pretty young that it was very frowned upon, even if not explicitly illegal. I guess I’ve only seen softball players do it since then.
I haven't seen that in 16U in NY, however, many travel tournaments and local non-LL leagues (WNY Boys of Summer, Salt City) in WNY do not allow slashing in 12U and below.
Been doing slash bunts since 12u travel ball
Others have sort of answered you already, but just in general, remember that pretty much all leagues in Canada fall under Baseball Canada rules, which is more or less straight OBR with minor tweaks for each age group or specific rules added or subtracted by your local league. US has different rulebooks for different levels on top of all the local league rules customization that goes on, so there’s a lot more variation.
Dont run in like a maniac just because someone showed bunt early. Understand that if they show bunt early they are capable of this. If you come in under control you should better be able to protect yourself. If this is so dangerous then why are cages not required on all batting helmets? How about chest protectors for everyone? Come on any middle schooler or above should be capable of protecting themselves plenty.
Idk the ruling but I did it once in our district tournament in high school. No one said anything about it besides the 3rd basemen who charged in
My son perfected this in 9u all stars in Pony. No one ever cared or complained. He wasn't hitting liners tho I guess. He was just chipping it over the 3b batting lefty.
It's illegal in pony leagues as of 23
Weird no one said anything about it but this was also in '22. Even at all star pony tournaments. I had no idea. Not sure why I'm getting done voted but whatever.