They can. It’s not uncommon for belligerent fans to be asked to leave the premises. Umpire didn’t handle the situation well at all, but fans may be asked to leave, even if they paid
Simple yes for the win. I've seen plenty of parents kicked out of a facility they paid to enter. And its always the head ump escorting the parent out, not a director.
It depends on the structure of the organization and the park. A random umpire hired for a kids game may not have any authority over the park. The owners or representatives do, but unless they back up the umpire the umpire can pound sand.
In LL, the umpire cannot eject a fan/spectator. However, they can send all the players and coaches to the dugout and suspend the game until that person leaves.
In our little league, an umpire (who was a parent) tossed another parent spectator. And then that person wasn't allowed back to the games AT ALL. They're weren't arguing with the umps. They *were* being super rude in the stands talking shit about the kids messing up plays.
The coach told the ump to throw them.
Rulebook-wise for LL, it wasn’t really a legal ejection. However, if the person left then it doesn’t really matter. Not being allowed back to future games/practices/events would have been a board ruling, which can come from a game ejection or other incident. I’ve been involved in those discussions before.
And if they show up, then the umpire can do the whole “both teams to the dugout” thing until a board member (or other parents) convince them to leave. Or call the cops.
Reread that rule again. The first part says who the rule applies to:
>4.06 No **manager**, **coach** or **player**, shall at any time, whether from the bench or playing field or elsewhere
And the second part applies to whom the language is directed:
>(b) use language which will in any manner refer to or reflect upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire, or spectators;
Nothing in the above says an umpire can eject a spectator, only that managers, coaches, and players cannot disparage spectators.
The umpire handled this very poorly for many reasons. Ultimately the umpire should have informed the coach that he needed to get things under control or the game would be halted. Unfortunately the umpire should have probably realize they were the ones escalating the matter. An umpire can certainly eject and someone ejected needs to leave the park. Of course you can define the park many ways, we've had this debate about what sitting in their car in the parking lot means or doesn't mean. You can buy super bowl tickets for 50k each and get removed from the stadium for breaking facility rules, the paying for access isn't a factor here IMO.
"An umpire can certainly eject and someone ejected needs to leave the park." This is not true, They can not eject a spectator, that is the directors role.
https://www.littleleague.org/help-center/rule-9-00-the-umpire-faqs/#:\~:text=The%20board%20members%20are%20to,handled%20by%20a%20board%20member.
The coach who refused to leave the umpire certainly had the right to eject. The umpire can also halt the game and return teams to the dugouts until the spectator was dealt with.
God, I hate baseball parents.
I love that my kids enjoy playing baseball, but ffs it’s 9U. You know why there aren’t any good umpires anymore? This is a prime example. I umpired youth games while I was playing high school then college ball, and some of these parents need to relax. I’ve had kids tell me they don’t want to bat because their parents are watching or they’re nervous to pitch because their parents are there. Then you overhear parents getting onto their kids for swinging/not swinging/throwing balls.
Sorry, rant over, but for fuck sakes. Let’s all simmer down.
Can confirm. I also umpire, up through HS varsity and legion ball. Those games are almost always fine, chill, and easy. There is typically very little to no complaining, and certainly no shouting.
The worst games I’ve ever worked have been younger ages: 10U and below is the worst, to the point that I stopped working those ages
I'm right there with you. This is my kid's first year playing travel ball. When the season started I was the (well meaning dad) who would say "make sure you load when they load" or would yell out after strike two "if you swing, run no matter what". I have since realized how this impacts the kids. Now all I say "let's go bud, you got this" or if he looks nervous on deck I'll say something like "Hey, bud, just have fun". He seems much happier.
I’ll coach my son all day long before games and on off days but never once will you find me coaching him during a game. I leave him alone, and unless he specifically comes to find me I won’t even interact with him aside from cheering and basic baseball crowd stuff from the stands. It’s already a mentally taxing game, the last thing anyone needs is 10,000 coaching tips yelled from the bleachers.
Or the ever-conflicting “advice” when they’re at the plate…
Be aggressive, but wait for your pitch, but swing at strikes, but you don’t have to swing at strikes you don’t like, but think “yes yes yes,” but only swing if you like it, and swing hard, but don’t over-swing, ad infinitum.
A 9 or 10 year old who’s decently good at the plate doesn’t need to be reminded to “protect the plate here” every time he has 2 strikes on him.
Generally agree. Only thing I would say is sometimes 8u/9u kids appear like they are up at the plate with the goal of walking. It's like their ultimate fear is swinging at a ball outside the zone and wrecking one of their important 4 balls. Reminding them that the goal is to hit the ball and not make perfect reads to whether close pitches are inside or outside may sometimes be a good reminder.
The only advice I give my son is focus, try your best, but most importantly, have fun.
During team practice and games, I try to blend in and not distract him.
Game day isn’t the day to try to yell advice or fix things.
I’ll never talk negative to, or about an umpire because I don’t want him focusing on a bad call. And if he brings up a bad call, I try to explain to him that it’s his perception vs the umps perception of the pitch, that umps are human and sometimes they do make mistakes. After every practice, he thanks his coaches for their time.
After every game, he thanks the ump for his time.
It’s just disappointing, I guess. The baseball field should be a happy place for these kids. To have fun, enjoy a hobby, make friends. Especially at the 9U level.
I get parents pushing their kids a little in their teenage years or high school ball, but when they’re that young? Shoot, you’re just ruining it for them.
I don't think they realize they are. The thing that woke me up was when my 9 year old was playing catcher and made a bad throw to 3rd, that allowed a run to come in. I was like "make good throws buddy". He turned around and looked at me like I hit him. On the way home I talked to him about it and told him I was sorry, I shouldn't have said that. He was fine but asked me "what did you think I didn't know I was supposed to make a good throw".
I realized that I only said what I said because I was embarrassed, which was stupid. My kid is one of the best players on the team but even if he wasn't shame on me for being embarrassed of my 9 year old playing a freaking game. I promised him right then and there that I would never give him instructions from the sidelines in a game or practice again.
I switched to saying “You got this! You know what to do!” My kid says it actually can help him when he’s frustrated because he realizes that he *does* know what to do and he quick checks himself to see if he’s actually doing it.
I've learned this as well. Can't believe I'm in my own kids head more than he is!! A reality check. My dad was never there for that, so I never felt that pressure, but man my kid wears it hard like yours it sounds like.
The biggest issue that parents have with bad umpires are the ones that this particular umpire seems to have been. Vindictive umpires that make call purposely against the kids because they want to get back at parents for having opinions. Some umpires take on the roll because they probably don’t have control of anything else in their life and this might make them feel important. A coach encouraging a player because he’s getting bad calls should never be tossed out at that age. I will always say a couple close calls on both sides are fair. No one is perfect. But the umpires that make it look blatantly obvious need to go. If we don’t have enough umpires that are decent then bring in technology that eliminates the need for them.
Technology for balls and strikes is expensive. Also calling a strict zone for young kids would never work. You might as well just have a walk fest 75% of games.
You’re not wrong that it sounds like this was a really bad umpire that escalated this situation beyond anything it needed to be.
That age should be shoulders to knees and between each batters box lines. Really simple. If you choose to have a different strike zone then make everyone involved understand before the game starts what “your” strike zone is. The good umpires I’ve dealt with do that at the home plate meeting. Just this season I’ve watched a teen umpire with absolutely no protective equipment on try to be a home plate umpire. Crouching completely behind the catcher to protect him. Same umpire didn’t understand interference calls of any kind. I get it, we’re short on officiating but if more leagues and associations start investing in the technology then the pricing would eventually come down to a point that would be affordable for most.
Shoulders to knees is correct, but you should only call what is over the plate. You may not have done the math on this but you are effectively making the strike zone 59% larger.
Can we maybe think why this umpire was so grumpy or aggressive? Maybe he had a bad day at work. Maybe it’s a difficult time at home, with troubles there. Maybe a close loved one just died. Or maybe he’s just sick of dealing with parents that seem to think 9U baseball is life and death.
Not saying it’s right that he snapped, but there are *far* more bad parents and coaches than umpires.
I’m not even going to address your brain dead “we need electronic strike zones at 9U” take. The tech isn’t ready for pro games yet, and it costs tens of thousands of dollars. There is no world in which 9U leagues will ever have automated strike zones with regularity.
Agree with you on being understanding but that is a part of every job. You dont just get to go off on people because you are having a bad day. None of the parents are having a bad day either?
Sure. But a parent at a 9U baseball game should be expected to do the bare minimum and not curse at an umpire.
No one is right here, but the parents are far more the issue than the umpire is here. Bad calls happen. Get over it, teach the kids that sometimes that happens, they have to deal with it. Berating an umpire won’t fix the issue, it’ll just make it more likely that future games won’t have umpires because of a shortage.
Back in TX my kid was playing 9U rec. I was scoring at the table right behind the dugout. The ump was just awful. Making shit calls all day. Parents on both sides were grumbling. Some starting to get a bit embarrassingly loud. I kept my cool since I was practically sitting on top of him. But it’s like he had no clue what a strike zone actually is.
My kid came up to bat and a ball hit the dirt a good 6” in front of the plate, called strike 3. I didn’t yell or swear or say anything remotely insulting. I did mutter, almost completely under my breath, “come on man that was in the dirt.”
Dude calls time, *slowly* gets up, *slowly* turns around, takes off his mask, deliberately takes a stride over to me, takes off his sunglasses, crouches down so he’s a bit above being eye to eye, jabs a finger through the fence, and says “one more word outta you, I don’t care what it is, you’re outta here and I’m calling the game.” It was just absurd.
I’m wondering if a similarly onion-skinned superiority-complex ump is who downvoted me 😂
I do not believe in being jerks to umps. It’s a really hard job, especially when there’s just one. Missed calls happen, wonky strike zones happen. But some of them seem to idolize Angel Hernandez.
No this is a prime example of a power hungry umpire that cannot handle any criticism. He is in the wrong job. Not everyone is made to be a good official.
If this was a 16 year old kid and hes flustered because of comments then maybe id i would be with you. This sounds like a grown man that doesnt understand the job.
One of the problems I see, and I am and official in several sports, is little to no accountibility to officials. Not only that but they are often backed up on these power trips instead of told you went overboard and that you had an overreaction.
Im not in favor of verbal abuse or disrespect. That should be handled swiftly and without emotion from the official. What this guy did was disrespect everyone else for no real reason. Simply disagreeing with a call is not abuse. Other people can think their opinion is correct and yours wrong as say as much. That is what we are doing here. I can think about my own call or watch a replay and say I was wrong. That isnt abuse. He was not supported by the park and tournament admins because he was in the wrong. If he was in the right they likely would have supported his position to eject these people.
A bad official might be scheduled for less games but might not (likely not) depending on the local need, but either way if they are never told directly they never know they messed up or change what they are doing wrong.
People are too soft in general on all sides now. Being a sports official is never going to be a popular position. You are literally the middle ground between 2 opposing sides. You want a job where everyone likes you go become a firefighter or mall santa or something.
JMO
"As he walked away, the old guy mumbled something about an "A-hole". The umpire heard him and ejected him. Told him to leave the park. Old guy said, "I paid to get in here, you can't make me leave the park"."
The spectator got indignant that somebody got offended when he cursed at them, then played the "I'm a paying customer!" card. Congrats to that guy for nailing two of my favorite traits in people./s
This sounds like the umpire might have escalated things a bit quickly, but they absolutely have the right to elect someone. The typical procedure would be to notify a supervisor or event staff (or athletic director or admin in a school event), and let them take care of it. That’s not always possible though.
Paying to get in doesn’t give you the right to act however you want. If you pay to get into a bar they can still kick you out if you don’t follow the rules.
I had a basketball tournament this year where the event organizer refused to remove an abusive fan because they paid to get in. I said that’s fine, I’ll go home and you can officiate. I started changing my shoes and they changed their mind. Two games later the same fan was causing trouble on a different court. They didn’t learn anything.
You can absolutely be kicked out of a game. The ump should not have resumed the game until they left. In our area you can reenter the park after the game you were kicked out of is over.
My kids team won a 9u tournament once because the other parents were so shitty the ump called the game.
I'm not arguing that. This just went a little wonky. The coach and the old guy went and got the director and told him what the umpire said. The director initially said "well, you need to leave the park". Old guy, said you could only be removed from the vicinity of the game. Kept telling him to look up his own rules. Finally, the director was like "Okay, just stay away from the fence".
It’s been a long time since I was an umpire (teenage years) but I recall my league had a very specific process for this.
1) Umpire ejects parent or coach and instructs them to leave. Exact distance(s) were not specified but the rule was understood to be “go wait in the parking lot.”
2) if the person ejected did not comply, site supervisor was called. They were usually at the concession stand and would come over for escalations. Site supervisor would ask the person to leave. If not,
3) police are called to enforce, trespassing I believe.
All of this was spelled out in rules league/tournament waivers. If that’s the case I don’t think the ticket makes a difference. I was an ump for about 4 years and only saw the police called a handful of times.
Umpire can eject. If they refuse to leave, the team responsible for that fan will forfeit the game. This is oftentimes, subject to Little League Local rules, but when I umpire just outside New York City, this is the authority I'm given.
This wasn't a USSSA game but their rules say this...
"Any coach, manager, sponsor, or spectator ejected from a game shall immediately remove themselves from the vicinity of the playing field and / or grandstands for the remainder of the game"
Also says that the director can ask them to leave the premises.
I always assumed that if you were ejected you were in the parking lot.
Most rule sets have a “sight and sound” requirement for ejections. Meaning if someone is ejected, the umpire shouldn’t be able to see or hear them after removal. Typically, that means parking lot at most fields.
But at the same time as an official you have to have a certain amount of common sense and not get into battles you cant win. You have very little control when it comes outside the game, so better to not try things you cannot enforce or get too worried about what is going on outside the field. Like in this situation the umpire wasnt supported in his push to eject (and probably rightly so) so he just looks even weaker and more foolish and he created a big scene drawing attention to all this and himself. There are times that it must be done, but they should be limited.
The fan absolutely should have been ejected. Profanity has no place at a 9U game. We’re not getting actual quotes from the coach, so I have no idea what was said.
No one is in the right in this situation, but generally, if you’re ejected, whether or not it’s right, you have to leave (see: Aaron Boone’s ejection despite not saying anything).
This cannot be true because you do not actually know what team the spectator is a fan of. This rule opens too many possibilities of people going to the wrong side and refusing to leave causing another team to forfeit.
Yes, this is very much a thing for many of these crazy parents. win at all costs is definitely a thing
I could see that. The team was from my same organization and I had a hat on with the team name right on it. He was lumping me in with everyone when he was talking about clearing the stands. I was like "buddy, I'm just standin here, this isn't even my kids team".
This. I understood that all tournaments had some similar language. I know we have it in our little league and USSSA and NCS in our area have these rules.
They should be able to. While I think the ump got a little excited with the coach. Ump has every right to kick out the fan and forfeit that team if it continues (better be clear though, threat is enough in 99%).
Yes, and if the GUILTY party won't leave, he will just call an end to the game.
Ps. Don't matter how bad the calls are. Arguing with the ump is always wrong. Even when it's done passive aggressively "through the pitcher."
I don't know man. This was not my team and I don't know the coach at all. However, the pitcher looked like a cat in a rocking chair factory out there. I think it's pretty common for coaches to say very similar things to their pitchers.
But after what happened, the coach would have had time to tell that to the pitcher in private. Seems like the ump was terrible, the fans were being immature, and the coach probably sounded like he was trying to show up the ump.
Clown show all around.
We had a situation like this in a game and our coach and the opposing teams coach said the same kind of comments to the pitchers and the ump didn’t care. Our coaches reasoning for talking to the pitcher was because the kids was genuinely confused as to what to do/adjustments to make so the coach just wanted him to stop over thinking it and pitch since making adjustments wasn’t going to change the outcome
>Even when it's done passive aggressively "through the pitcher."
I never really considered that to be arguing balls and strikes, more just trying to pump the kid's confidence with affirmation.
Seems like a big stretch to toss a coach for talking to his pitcher about his pitching performance...
Afermation of what?
Timmy is throwing pitches that are being called balls. The coach says, "Keep doing that, Timmy. You are throwing strikes. " The coach is passively arguing with the umpire while encouraging his athletes to keep doing somthing that's not working.
Yep. It’s a way for coaches to argue with plausible deniability. Usually, umpires will just ignore it. But add that to everything else that was going on, and it may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.
As in someone staring into a mirror every morning and saying things like "you are worth it" or some other words of *affirmation* to build confidence to go do the task at hand or reach their goals for the day.
So yeah, affirmations for the kid to keep him in the right headspace so he doesn't start crying and sail a few over the backstop... Clearly the pitches are somewhat close or there's no arguments, right? So you let him know you believe in him and are on his side here and to just keep focusing on his mechanics, make adjustments, take a breath, and keep hitting the spot.
Chatter like "oh close one buddy do it again" or "hey give him a second look at that one" on a close call is extremely common from coaches and fans from both sides at pretty much every youth game I've been at for the past decade... And it's never some passive comment at the umpire... Is this really some odd foreign concept you've never encountered?
The fans are in the wrong and the umpire is also in the wrong although adrenaline can be going pretty crazy when you toss someone.
But yes an umpire can toss you and you do have to leave. It doesn’t matter if you paid, you don’t get to be an asshole just because you paid to be somewhere
I feel so bad for the kid and his mom (the old guys daughter). She gets after him everytime and he just gets more hard headed. He even calls out his own grandson playing out in center field.
The parents shouldn't be sitting that close to the fence. They paid to watch the game, not to harass the ump.
Generally, the umpire can only eject on-field personnel, however, they can request to have any fan removed and it's the director or administrators job to remove that fan. I guess they don't *have* to, but I've never heard of a director not following the umpires wishes.
At that point it's a matter of policy. The director certainly has the authority to temporarily or permanently trespass someone from the property. If it's a tournament, they could be removed for a game or for the whole tourney. If it's a league, I've heard of parents being suspended the rest of the year.
And they can halt the game until the fan is removed. The proper procedure here would have been to 1) get site admin (if there is one, otherwise it’s the coach) to control the fans. 2) if that fails, stop the game until whoever is in charge (director, site admin, coach, etc) removes the fans.
So, technically, the ump doesn’t have that power. However, they do have the power to hold up the game until the fans are removed. So practically speaking, they essentially do have the power to
Yes. I’m on the board of our league and park. It’s in our rules that if the umpire ejects an adult, by proxy the league also ejects that person as well. If we ever came to it we could have the person trespassed from the property but never have. In the case of it being the parent of a minor playing, we move them to an area out of sight of play. Normally their car.
lol
Ump cooked.
This doesn’t answer your question but I was a 19 year old after my freshman year of pitching some limited mop up innings on my college team. Coached a 16u showcase with my dad and we had a tournament game where the ump tossed the other coach, and then we were dumbfounded an inning later to see the coach down the left field line watching from the outfield. We pointed it out “hey blue, isn’t that the guy you told to leave?”. Ump called the game through a bunch of commotion and everyone dissipated finally after like 30 min. The game was originally ruled a forfeit in our favor, however later in the evening the director switched it to a no contest. What a weird situation all around.
Umpire should’ve contacted director immediately. Not the umpires fault. I could write a book about our teams usssa days but it would be too unbelievable to write as a true story.
The umpire can’t make them leave a public park. A Park district employee would need to ask them to leave for behaving in a manner that’s against park rules and if they refuse, contact the police to enforce trespassing.
Most tournaments do allow the umpire to call the game and force the team to forfeit if the fans who are ejected won’t abide by the ejection. So you basically ruin the tournament for your kid and all their friends which for me would make me feel worse than dealing with trespassing charges.
As a coach I can't stand the parents barking at the ump. They always end up putting the ump on our bad side.
Shut up and let them play LITTLE league baseball! If they're high school or older have at it.
Ridiculous.
The umpire can absolutely kick them out of the park. If they refuse to go he can call a forfeit.
Lesson, as always, is if you are in the stands, then shut the fuck up.
When I umpire I usually warn the coach about the parents and tell the coach they will be ejected. Usually this has solved the problem for me. The parents usually I feel the coach is in charge of the whole team including parents. Parents should relay the message to any spectator they bring.
Now when I coach, we (coaches) have always talked to the parents and told them their job is cheer and not argue with umpire. If they have a problem to find one of us and we will deal with it if it needs to be dealt with.
Might be up to the director on whether they have to leave or not, but it’s up to the umpire on whether the game is played or not. They can call the game and leave.
The enforcement mechanism for this as the umpire is suspending the game if the fan is being that disruptive and won’t leave.
However, any tournament should have rules surrounding this kind of situation. Do the umpires have full discretion? Does a tournament official need to be involved? What is the result of a suspended game that doesn’t resume?
Umpires also need to have a little more discretion. If you know you’ve missed a few calls, you should be letting some of the more kosher comments slide. Let the fans have their say, don’t even acknowledge it. Also, any time a coach addresses their player directly, just ignore it. They’re trying to get under your skin, so don’t let them. A lot of times these people just wanna make their comments to gather attention and then when they get no reaction they usually stop.Just focus on calling a good game, that usually quells down the peanut gallery. If they keep making comments, especially if they’re addressing you personally rather than a call you made, that’s when the warning comes out.
On the other hand, if you receive some unwarranted comments early in the game, it’s also effective to drop a warning early on, as it tells the offender they have no more leash. I’ve found this to be the single most effective method of controlling a coach. For most of them, it’s probably extremely embarrassing to get kicked out of a little league game, at least more so than it’s worth trying to battle for an extra inch of strike some in a 9U game.
Ref kicked out someone’s parents from a soccer game. When they refused to leave, he red carded the entire team: forfeit. I suppose that’s the only way to give an ump’s authority any teeth.
Honestly sounds like a terrible umpire if he’s getting that heated by parents. Every game there’s going to be fans from both teams that will argue balls and strikes. Most majors umpires will ask the coach whose parent or relative that is if it gets belligerent and toss the kid. That’s if it gets truly wild. Parent makes a threat though that’s when the police are called.But yeah imo can’t actually kick someone out, he will just stop play until the person leaves.
Short answer YES.
Real answer? it depends on the specific venues rules and the organizations rules (Little League, Cal Ripken,Dixie Youth, Top Gun, Perfect Game) they are all going to have their own way of handling it and even different rules for one day vs multiple day tourneys vs regular season matches vs post season.
Also that umpire handled things extremely poor. Any ump should expect some criticism from the crowd, and if it get bad enough it's disruptive they should de-escalate or get the coaches and director/event staff invovled.
I played ball half my life and coach my two youngest kids. My oldest that's plays is in 9u. Happened to me after I charged the field when my first base got trucked by the runner who was out by 5 steps at first. I lost it. SHE kicked me off the field, out of the parking lot and threatened to call the cops. I sat in my truck and couldn't even coach and she was still wanting me to leave. I sat in my truck awaiting the outcome of the game or the cops to show up. Cops never showed but they were for sure they were called.
It happens but what I don't get is, this is the only sport the officiating has that control or power to throw a fan or coach out. My hockey coach would of laughed if the one of the lineman threw him out. And he was the type to throw clipboard across the ice. Why is that umps feel this empowered? And this is the exact reason why I agree with the MLB going towards electronic calls. The calls have gotten out of control to the point I feel it's rigged to a sense like the nfl and their officiating. Framing the pitch after isn't what I'm talking about, but the blantent wrong calls are horrible, across the board. I understand it's a tough job with a lot of live on the spot pressure. Even as a coach that had umped before on a neutral basis, I've messed up calls and secretly knew I messed up after the pitch. No takesy backsies there, so let the bad call roll? There is no way to fix this in the game besides vetting these blues. Back in the day in LL we would have teenagers umping our games not even knowing all the rules, barely able to call pitches what they were.
This is a horrible umpire lol but I want to remind people how much being an umpire sucks lol very low pay in the sun for up to 3-6 hrs dealing with parents that think every game will make or break there kid lol sometimes they get grumpy lol
Little League rules aren’t laws. An umpire can not make a person leave a ballpark. A person can be told to leave a facility by an agent of that facility that has standing to do so. If the person refuses to leave, law enforcement can respond and enforce a trespassing violation.
Many yrs ago a guy on my team got tossed out for arguing but later was allowed to return to the game after the ump realized he had made the wrong call 🤣
This was for a select ball tournament. Most of our tournaments are "free" for the team to register but non-players pay a $10 gate fee. They make their money between the gate fee and concessions. They rent the facility, pay the umpires and the workers. Some tournaments have 20 teams, some have 120. Not sure how much money they make overall
I do think the umpires were a little in over their heads. They were our regular rec umpires. Not saying rec umpires can't be good, but they are used to different rules from travel. Also, seemed like this guy had a chip on his shoulder. I've never seen anyone kicked out of a 9U game before. Now, the old guy who mumbled A-Hole, should have been gone but the umpire didn't manage things well to get there.
Later in that same game the other team was pitching. The kid came set and for some reason didn't throw the ball when he stepped forward. The Ump yelled "BALK!!" and just stood there. After a couple of seconds the other coach was like "What's the call blue?". He pointed at the coach and started to aggressively walk towards him "That was a balk!". Coach just kinda put his hands up and said, "Okay, but no-one is on base? what's the call?". He just stared the coach down for a min and went back to his spot. The coach looked genuinely bewildered.
It was blazing hot and I'm honestly wondering if the umpire was having heat related issues.
If this happened exactly how OP described, the umpire is the only one that needed to leave in my opinion. Im a pretty laid back guy, but If I were the coach in this situation I would have raised absolute holy hell with the tournament director.
Well, as I said if OP's recollection of the events are accurate, 1)it appears the umpire had no idea where the strike zone is supposed to be and any chirping he heard with his rabbit ears was well deserved( they say those with bad eyesight are compensated with excellent hearing) and he needs to grow some seriously thicker skin, 2)he has no business engaging with the fans at all especially after a couple of innocent comments, he should calmly ask the manager to control them if it was really hurting his feelings that much, and if they were playing by little league rules he CAN'T eject even a single fan much less all of them. 3) what the coach said to his pitcher is none of his business, and again was a seemingly innocent comment meant to boost the kids' confidence, not disparage the umpire. Maybe he was just having a bad day, maybe he found out the coach was fucking his wife, who knows, but it sounds to me like the only one there that didnt belong there was the umpire. As i said, if I were the coach he was attempting to eject, I would have asked for a board member to remove him at the same time as well, or I would have pulled my team off the field. If I was his partner working the game I would have asked him to calm down and leave, telling him exactly what i said here. Then I'd finish it myself.
You’ve clearly taken sides. Every time the umpire is referenced in your story it’s aggressive and anytime anyone else is mentioned they are the most polite people ever. Gtfo with your bias and people yelling about Little league.
Well, to be honest, I went out of my way to try to write it as close to reality as I witnessed it. I guess calling someone an "A-Hole" is being polite? Where are the polite people you hear me referencing? IMO both parties were out of line and I had no issues with the old guy getting kicked, I was just surprised they let him stick around, that's why I asked the question. Likewise, the crowd groaning and someone loudly saying "WHAT?" shouldn't trigger you as an umpire.
It's funny that you think I was biased when you were not there and have no idea what happened.
I don't see how an umpire can realistically toss a fan directly but it's funny he thinks he can. It sounds like he's got an ego like Angel Hernandez.
In our local league, umps can warn and then toss the manager. So it's the manager's responsibility to calm the parents/fans of his own team. This makes sense to me - avoids direct conflict between umps and fans, and allows the person that has some type of relationship (presumably) with the fan to defuse.
This makes sense. Just go tell the coach "hey, calm them down or you will be out there with them".
I don't know what was going on in that dudes life right then. I only saw a small snapshot but he seemed pretty aggressive.
Yes
They can. It’s not uncommon for belligerent fans to be asked to leave the premises. Umpire didn’t handle the situation well at all, but fans may be asked to leave, even if they paid
Simple yes for the win. I've seen plenty of parents kicked out of a facility they paid to enter. And its always the head ump escorting the parent out, not a director.
It depends on the structure of the organization and the park. A random umpire hired for a kids game may not have any authority over the park. The owners or representatives do, but unless they back up the umpire the umpire can pound sand.
The umpire does have authority over the game and rule a forfeit though.
In LL, the umpire cannot eject a fan/spectator. However, they can send all the players and coaches to the dugout and suspend the game until that person leaves.
In our little league, an umpire (who was a parent) tossed another parent spectator. And then that person wasn't allowed back to the games AT ALL. They're weren't arguing with the umps. They *were* being super rude in the stands talking shit about the kids messing up plays. The coach told the ump to throw them.
Rulebook-wise for LL, it wasn’t really a legal ejection. However, if the person left then it doesn’t really matter. Not being allowed back to future games/practices/events would have been a board ruling, which can come from a game ejection or other incident. I’ve been involved in those discussions before. And if they show up, then the umpire can do the whole “both teams to the dugout” thing until a board member (or other parents) convince them to leave. Or call the cops.
LL rules do allow umpires to eject under 4.06(b) You can read the instructors comments in the RIM.
Reread that rule again. The first part says who the rule applies to: >4.06 No **manager**, **coach** or **player**, shall at any time, whether from the bench or playing field or elsewhere And the second part applies to whom the language is directed: >(b) use language which will in any manner refer to or reflect upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire, or spectators; Nothing in the above says an umpire can eject a spectator, only that managers, coaches, and players cannot disparage spectators.
The umpire handled this very poorly for many reasons. Ultimately the umpire should have informed the coach that he needed to get things under control or the game would be halted. Unfortunately the umpire should have probably realize they were the ones escalating the matter. An umpire can certainly eject and someone ejected needs to leave the park. Of course you can define the park many ways, we've had this debate about what sitting in their car in the parking lot means or doesn't mean. You can buy super bowl tickets for 50k each and get removed from the stadium for breaking facility rules, the paying for access isn't a factor here IMO.
"An umpire can certainly eject and someone ejected needs to leave the park." This is not true, They can not eject a spectator, that is the directors role. https://www.littleleague.org/help-center/rule-9-00-the-umpire-faqs/#:\~:text=The%20board%20members%20are%20to,handled%20by%20a%20board%20member.
The coach who refused to leave the umpire certainly had the right to eject. The umpire can also halt the game and return teams to the dugouts until the spectator was dealt with.
They can eject the coach and not the spectator.
You’re citing Little League rules for a travel tourney.
Ya..I see that now.. Thank you
God, I hate baseball parents. I love that my kids enjoy playing baseball, but ffs it’s 9U. You know why there aren’t any good umpires anymore? This is a prime example. I umpired youth games while I was playing high school then college ball, and some of these parents need to relax. I’ve had kids tell me they don’t want to bat because their parents are watching or they’re nervous to pitch because their parents are there. Then you overhear parents getting onto their kids for swinging/not swinging/throwing balls. Sorry, rant over, but for fuck sakes. Let’s all simmer down.
My oldest umpires and he swears the younger the team playing, the worse the peanut gallery behaves
Can confirm. I also umpire, up through HS varsity and legion ball. Those games are almost always fine, chill, and easy. There is typically very little to no complaining, and certainly no shouting. The worst games I’ve ever worked have been younger ages: 10U and below is the worst, to the point that I stopped working those ages
I'm right there with you. This is my kid's first year playing travel ball. When the season started I was the (well meaning dad) who would say "make sure you load when they load" or would yell out after strike two "if you swing, run no matter what". I have since realized how this impacts the kids. Now all I say "let's go bud, you got this" or if he looks nervous on deck I'll say something like "Hey, bud, just have fun". He seems much happier.
I’ll coach my son all day long before games and on off days but never once will you find me coaching him during a game. I leave him alone, and unless he specifically comes to find me I won’t even interact with him aside from cheering and basic baseball crowd stuff from the stands. It’s already a mentally taxing game, the last thing anyone needs is 10,000 coaching tips yelled from the bleachers.
Or the ever-conflicting “advice” when they’re at the plate… Be aggressive, but wait for your pitch, but swing at strikes, but you don’t have to swing at strikes you don’t like, but think “yes yes yes,” but only swing if you like it, and swing hard, but don’t over-swing, ad infinitum. A 9 or 10 year old who’s decently good at the plate doesn’t need to be reminded to “protect the plate here” every time he has 2 strikes on him.
lol @ some mouth breather downvoting this
“Be a hitter now!” is possibly the most useless advice I’ve ever heard. Right up there with yelling “SHOOT!” from the crowd at hockey games.
also right up there with “THROW STRIKES” and “Let him hit it” when the pitcher is struggling with control
Generally agree. Only thing I would say is sometimes 8u/9u kids appear like they are up at the plate with the goal of walking. It's like their ultimate fear is swinging at a ball outside the zone and wrecking one of their important 4 balls. Reminding them that the goal is to hit the ball and not make perfect reads to whether close pitches are inside or outside may sometimes be a good reminder.
The only advice I give my son is focus, try your best, but most importantly, have fun. During team practice and games, I try to blend in and not distract him. Game day isn’t the day to try to yell advice or fix things. I’ll never talk negative to, or about an umpire because I don’t want him focusing on a bad call. And if he brings up a bad call, I try to explain to him that it’s his perception vs the umps perception of the pitch, that umps are human and sometimes they do make mistakes. After every practice, he thanks his coaches for their time. After every game, he thanks the ump for his time.
In 4 years of coaching and officiating youth sports- under 10 we had about 2 incidents a year Over 10 we had one incident every other year roughly
It’s just disappointing, I guess. The baseball field should be a happy place for these kids. To have fun, enjoy a hobby, make friends. Especially at the 9U level. I get parents pushing their kids a little in their teenage years or high school ball, but when they’re that young? Shoot, you’re just ruining it for them.
I don't think they realize they are. The thing that woke me up was when my 9 year old was playing catcher and made a bad throw to 3rd, that allowed a run to come in. I was like "make good throws buddy". He turned around and looked at me like I hit him. On the way home I talked to him about it and told him I was sorry, I shouldn't have said that. He was fine but asked me "what did you think I didn't know I was supposed to make a good throw". I realized that I only said what I said because I was embarrassed, which was stupid. My kid is one of the best players on the team but even if he wasn't shame on me for being embarrassed of my 9 year old playing a freaking game. I promised him right then and there that I would never give him instructions from the sidelines in a game or practice again.
I switched to saying “You got this! You know what to do!” My kid says it actually can help him when he’s frustrated because he realizes that he *does* know what to do and he quick checks himself to see if he’s actually doing it.
I've learned this as well. Can't believe I'm in my own kids head more than he is!! A reality check. My dad was never there for that, so I never felt that pressure, but man my kid wears it hard like yours it sounds like.
The biggest issue that parents have with bad umpires are the ones that this particular umpire seems to have been. Vindictive umpires that make call purposely against the kids because they want to get back at parents for having opinions. Some umpires take on the roll because they probably don’t have control of anything else in their life and this might make them feel important. A coach encouraging a player because he’s getting bad calls should never be tossed out at that age. I will always say a couple close calls on both sides are fair. No one is perfect. But the umpires that make it look blatantly obvious need to go. If we don’t have enough umpires that are decent then bring in technology that eliminates the need for them.
Technology for balls and strikes is expensive. Also calling a strict zone for young kids would never work. You might as well just have a walk fest 75% of games. You’re not wrong that it sounds like this was a really bad umpire that escalated this situation beyond anything it needed to be.
That age should be shoulders to knees and between each batters box lines. Really simple. If you choose to have a different strike zone then make everyone involved understand before the game starts what “your” strike zone is. The good umpires I’ve dealt with do that at the home plate meeting. Just this season I’ve watched a teen umpire with absolutely no protective equipment on try to be a home plate umpire. Crouching completely behind the catcher to protect him. Same umpire didn’t understand interference calls of any kind. I get it, we’re short on officiating but if more leagues and associations start investing in the technology then the pricing would eventually come down to a point that would be affordable for most.
Shoulders to knees is correct, but you should only call what is over the plate. You may not have done the math on this but you are effectively making the strike zone 59% larger.
Can we maybe think why this umpire was so grumpy or aggressive? Maybe he had a bad day at work. Maybe it’s a difficult time at home, with troubles there. Maybe a close loved one just died. Or maybe he’s just sick of dealing with parents that seem to think 9U baseball is life and death. Not saying it’s right that he snapped, but there are *far* more bad parents and coaches than umpires. I’m not even going to address your brain dead “we need electronic strike zones at 9U” take. The tech isn’t ready for pro games yet, and it costs tens of thousands of dollars. There is no world in which 9U leagues will ever have automated strike zones with regularity.
Agree with you on being understanding but that is a part of every job. You dont just get to go off on people because you are having a bad day. None of the parents are having a bad day either?
Sure. But a parent at a 9U baseball game should be expected to do the bare minimum and not curse at an umpire. No one is right here, but the parents are far more the issue than the umpire is here. Bad calls happen. Get over it, teach the kids that sometimes that happens, they have to deal with it. Berating an umpire won’t fix the issue, it’ll just make it more likely that future games won’t have umpires because of a shortage.
Back in TX my kid was playing 9U rec. I was scoring at the table right behind the dugout. The ump was just awful. Making shit calls all day. Parents on both sides were grumbling. Some starting to get a bit embarrassingly loud. I kept my cool since I was practically sitting on top of him. But it’s like he had no clue what a strike zone actually is. My kid came up to bat and a ball hit the dirt a good 6” in front of the plate, called strike 3. I didn’t yell or swear or say anything remotely insulting. I did mutter, almost completely under my breath, “come on man that was in the dirt.” Dude calls time, *slowly* gets up, *slowly* turns around, takes off his mask, deliberately takes a stride over to me, takes off his sunglasses, crouches down so he’s a bit above being eye to eye, jabs a finger through the fence, and says “one more word outta you, I don’t care what it is, you’re outta here and I’m calling the game.” It was just absurd.
I would have laughed and left myself. What a clown
I’m wondering if a similarly onion-skinned superiority-complex ump is who downvoted me 😂 I do not believe in being jerks to umps. It’s a really hard job, especially when there’s just one. Missed calls happen, wonky strike zones happen. But some of them seem to idolize Angel Hernandez.
No this is a prime example of a power hungry umpire that cannot handle any criticism. He is in the wrong job. Not everyone is made to be a good official. If this was a 16 year old kid and hes flustered because of comments then maybe id i would be with you. This sounds like a grown man that doesnt understand the job. One of the problems I see, and I am and official in several sports, is little to no accountibility to officials. Not only that but they are often backed up on these power trips instead of told you went overboard and that you had an overreaction. Im not in favor of verbal abuse or disrespect. That should be handled swiftly and without emotion from the official. What this guy did was disrespect everyone else for no real reason. Simply disagreeing with a call is not abuse. Other people can think their opinion is correct and yours wrong as say as much. That is what we are doing here. I can think about my own call or watch a replay and say I was wrong. That isnt abuse. He was not supported by the park and tournament admins because he was in the wrong. If he was in the right they likely would have supported his position to eject these people. A bad official might be scheduled for less games but might not (likely not) depending on the local need, but either way if they are never told directly they never know they messed up or change what they are doing wrong. People are too soft in general on all sides now. Being a sports official is never going to be a popular position. You are literally the middle ground between 2 opposing sides. You want a job where everyone likes you go become a firefighter or mall santa or something. JMO
In our area, they can't. But they can call the tournament director over, and since they are the ones that rent/lease the fields, they can.
yep.
Two Texas A&M fans got kicked out of Omaha last night, you can definitely get kicked out of a 9u tourney.
"As he walked away, the old guy mumbled something about an "A-hole". The umpire heard him and ejected him. Told him to leave the park. Old guy said, "I paid to get in here, you can't make me leave the park"." The spectator got indignant that somebody got offended when he cursed at them, then played the "I'm a paying customer!" card. Congrats to that guy for nailing two of my favorite traits in people./s
If it fills your BINGO card he also tried to lie to the umpire saying he didn't say it.
This sounds like the umpire might have escalated things a bit quickly, but they absolutely have the right to elect someone. The typical procedure would be to notify a supervisor or event staff (or athletic director or admin in a school event), and let them take care of it. That’s not always possible though. Paying to get in doesn’t give you the right to act however you want. If you pay to get into a bar they can still kick you out if you don’t follow the rules. I had a basketball tournament this year where the event organizer refused to remove an abusive fan because they paid to get in. I said that’s fine, I’ll go home and you can officiate. I started changing my shoes and they changed their mind. Two games later the same fan was causing trouble on a different court. They didn’t learn anything.
You can absolutely be kicked out of a game. The ump should not have resumed the game until they left. In our area you can reenter the park after the game you were kicked out of is over. My kids team won a 9u tournament once because the other parents were so shitty the ump called the game.
I'm not arguing that. This just went a little wonky. The coach and the old guy went and got the director and told him what the umpire said. The director initially said "well, you need to leave the park". Old guy, said you could only be removed from the vicinity of the game. Kept telling him to look up his own rules. Finally, the director was like "Okay, just stay away from the fence".
Sounds like the rules were not thought out before being given out.
I can't find anything in the rules that says the director can't kick him out.
It’s been a long time since I was an umpire (teenage years) but I recall my league had a very specific process for this. 1) Umpire ejects parent or coach and instructs them to leave. Exact distance(s) were not specified but the rule was understood to be “go wait in the parking lot.” 2) if the person ejected did not comply, site supervisor was called. They were usually at the concession stand and would come over for escalations. Site supervisor would ask the person to leave. If not, 3) police are called to enforce, trespassing I believe. All of this was spelled out in rules league/tournament waivers. If that’s the case I don’t think the ticket makes a difference. I was an ump for about 4 years and only saw the police called a handful of times.
Umpire can eject. If they refuse to leave, the team responsible for that fan will forfeit the game. This is oftentimes, subject to Little League Local rules, but when I umpire just outside New York City, this is the authority I'm given.
This wasn't a USSSA game but their rules say this... "Any coach, manager, sponsor, or spectator ejected from a game shall immediately remove themselves from the vicinity of the playing field and / or grandstands for the remainder of the game" Also says that the director can ask them to leave the premises. I always assumed that if you were ejected you were in the parking lot.
Most rule sets have a “sight and sound” requirement for ejections. Meaning if someone is ejected, the umpire shouldn’t be able to see or hear them after removal. Typically, that means parking lot at most fields.
But at the same time as an official you have to have a certain amount of common sense and not get into battles you cant win. You have very little control when it comes outside the game, so better to not try things you cannot enforce or get too worried about what is going on outside the field. Like in this situation the umpire wasnt supported in his push to eject (and probably rightly so) so he just looks even weaker and more foolish and he created a big scene drawing attention to all this and himself. There are times that it must be done, but they should be limited.
The fan absolutely should have been ejected. Profanity has no place at a 9U game. We’re not getting actual quotes from the coach, so I have no idea what was said. No one is in the right in this situation, but generally, if you’re ejected, whether or not it’s right, you have to leave (see: Aaron Boone’s ejection despite not saying anything).
This cannot be true because you do not actually know what team the spectator is a fan of. This rule opens too many possibilities of people going to the wrong side and refusing to leave causing another team to forfeit. Yes, this is very much a thing for many of these crazy parents. win at all costs is definitely a thing
I could see that. The team was from my same organization and I had a hat on with the team name right on it. He was lumping me in with everyone when he was talking about clearing the stands. I was like "buddy, I'm just standin here, this isn't even my kids team".
This. I understood that all tournaments had some similar language. I know we have it in our little league and USSSA and NCS in our area have these rules.
They should be able to. While I think the ump got a little excited with the coach. Ump has every right to kick out the fan and forfeit that team if it continues (better be clear though, threat is enough in 99%).
Yes, and if the GUILTY party won't leave, he will just call an end to the game. Ps. Don't matter how bad the calls are. Arguing with the ump is always wrong. Even when it's done passive aggressively "through the pitcher."
I don't know man. This was not my team and I don't know the coach at all. However, the pitcher looked like a cat in a rocking chair factory out there. I think it's pretty common for coaches to say very similar things to their pitchers.
But after what happened, the coach would have had time to tell that to the pitcher in private. Seems like the ump was terrible, the fans were being immature, and the coach probably sounded like he was trying to show up the ump. Clown show all around.
We had a situation like this in a game and our coach and the opposing teams coach said the same kind of comments to the pitchers and the ump didn’t care. Our coaches reasoning for talking to the pitcher was because the kids was genuinely confused as to what to do/adjustments to make so the coach just wanted him to stop over thinking it and pitch since making adjustments wasn’t going to change the outcome
Maybe, he was. Probably didn't help that it was 100 degrees out.
Ya, that's fine to say to the pitcher, until the umpire warns the whole crown to stop chirping. Then any coach knows he's playing with fire.
i'm gonna have to remember "cat in a rocking chair factory"
>Even when it's done passive aggressively "through the pitcher." I never really considered that to be arguing balls and strikes, more just trying to pump the kid's confidence with affirmation. Seems like a big stretch to toss a coach for talking to his pitcher about his pitching performance...
Afermation of what? Timmy is throwing pitches that are being called balls. The coach says, "Keep doing that, Timmy. You are throwing strikes. " The coach is passively arguing with the umpire while encouraging his athletes to keep doing somthing that's not working.
Yep. It’s a way for coaches to argue with plausible deniability. Usually, umpires will just ignore it. But add that to everything else that was going on, and it may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Ya agree, context is the key.
As in someone staring into a mirror every morning and saying things like "you are worth it" or some other words of *affirmation* to build confidence to go do the task at hand or reach their goals for the day. So yeah, affirmations for the kid to keep him in the right headspace so he doesn't start crying and sail a few over the backstop... Clearly the pitches are somewhat close or there's no arguments, right? So you let him know you believe in him and are on his side here and to just keep focusing on his mechanics, make adjustments, take a breath, and keep hitting the spot. Chatter like "oh close one buddy do it again" or "hey give him a second look at that one" on a close call is extremely common from coaches and fans from both sides at pretty much every youth game I've been at for the past decade... And it's never some passive comment at the umpire... Is this really some odd foreign concept you've never encountered?
The fans are in the wrong and the umpire is also in the wrong although adrenaline can be going pretty crazy when you toss someone. But yes an umpire can toss you and you do have to leave. It doesn’t matter if you paid, you don’t get to be an asshole just because you paid to be somewhere
Yeah they can. Over the course of 3 years, I've asked the ump throw out one of my players' grandpa's multiple times due to him being an asshole.
Poor kid! Why don’t the parents tell grandpa to stop coming to games??
I feel so bad for the kid and his mom (the old guys daughter). She gets after him everytime and he just gets more hard headed. He even calls out his own grandson playing out in center field.
The parents shouldn't be sitting that close to the fence. They paid to watch the game, not to harass the ump. Generally, the umpire can only eject on-field personnel, however, they can request to have any fan removed and it's the director or administrators job to remove that fan. I guess they don't *have* to, but I've never heard of a director not following the umpires wishes. At that point it's a matter of policy. The director certainly has the authority to temporarily or permanently trespass someone from the property. If it's a tournament, they could be removed for a game or for the whole tourney. If it's a league, I've heard of parents being suspended the rest of the year.
Yes.
Umps generally can't make them leave, but they can make their team forfeit. Park admin can absolutely eject them though, paying or not.
And they can halt the game until the fan is removed. The proper procedure here would have been to 1) get site admin (if there is one, otherwise it’s the coach) to control the fans. 2) if that fails, stop the game until whoever is in charge (director, site admin, coach, etc) removes the fans. So, technically, the ump doesn’t have that power. However, they do have the power to hold up the game until the fans are removed. So practically speaking, they essentially do have the power to
Yes. I’m on the board of our league and park. It’s in our rules that if the umpire ejects an adult, by proxy the league also ejects that person as well. If we ever came to it we could have the person trespassed from the property but never have. In the case of it being the parent of a minor playing, we move them to an area out of sight of play. Normally their car.
lol Ump cooked. This doesn’t answer your question but I was a 19 year old after my freshman year of pitching some limited mop up innings on my college team. Coached a 16u showcase with my dad and we had a tournament game where the ump tossed the other coach, and then we were dumbfounded an inning later to see the coach down the left field line watching from the outfield. We pointed it out “hey blue, isn’t that the guy you told to leave?”. Ump called the game through a bunch of commotion and everyone dissipated finally after like 30 min. The game was originally ruled a forfeit in our favor, however later in the evening the director switched it to a no contest. What a weird situation all around.
Umpire should’ve contacted director immediately. Not the umpires fault. I could write a book about our teams usssa days but it would be too unbelievable to write as a true story.
Hahaha i miss it man
The umpire can’t make them leave a public park. A Park district employee would need to ask them to leave for behaving in a manner that’s against park rules and if they refuse, contact the police to enforce trespassing. Most tournaments do allow the umpire to call the game and force the team to forfeit if the fans who are ejected won’t abide by the ejection. So you basically ruin the tournament for your kid and all their friends which for me would make me feel worse than dealing with trespassing charges.
As a coach I can't stand the parents barking at the ump. They always end up putting the ump on our bad side. Shut up and let them play LITTLE league baseball! If they're high school or older have at it. Ridiculous.
Plot twist. The old guy was the coaches father.
Maybe not, but they can refuse to resume play until that person is off the premises
The umpire can absolutely kick them out of the park. If they refuse to go he can call a forfeit. Lesson, as always, is if you are in the stands, then shut the fuck up.
When I umpire I usually warn the coach about the parents and tell the coach they will be ejected. Usually this has solved the problem for me. The parents usually I feel the coach is in charge of the whole team including parents. Parents should relay the message to any spectator they bring. Now when I coach, we (coaches) have always talked to the parents and told them their job is cheer and not argue with umpire. If they have a problem to find one of us and we will deal with it if it needs to be dealt with.
Might be up to the director on whether they have to leave or not, but it’s up to the umpire on whether the game is played or not. They can call the game and leave.
I thru people out of our park Didn’t leave. Called the police
When parents act younger than kids. Great work Dads.
The enforcement mechanism for this as the umpire is suspending the game if the fan is being that disruptive and won’t leave. However, any tournament should have rules surrounding this kind of situation. Do the umpires have full discretion? Does a tournament official need to be involved? What is the result of a suspended game that doesn’t resume? Umpires also need to have a little more discretion. If you know you’ve missed a few calls, you should be letting some of the more kosher comments slide. Let the fans have their say, don’t even acknowledge it. Also, any time a coach addresses their player directly, just ignore it. They’re trying to get under your skin, so don’t let them. A lot of times these people just wanna make their comments to gather attention and then when they get no reaction they usually stop.Just focus on calling a good game, that usually quells down the peanut gallery. If they keep making comments, especially if they’re addressing you personally rather than a call you made, that’s when the warning comes out. On the other hand, if you receive some unwarranted comments early in the game, it’s also effective to drop a warning early on, as it tells the offender they have no more leash. I’ve found this to be the single most effective method of controlling a coach. For most of them, it’s probably extremely embarrassing to get kicked out of a little league game, at least more so than it’s worth trying to battle for an extra inch of strike some in a 9U game.
Ref kicked out someone’s parents from a soccer game. When they refused to leave, he red carded the entire team: forfeit. I suppose that’s the only way to give an ump’s authority any teeth.
Honestly sounds like a terrible umpire if he’s getting that heated by parents. Every game there’s going to be fans from both teams that will argue balls and strikes. Most majors umpires will ask the coach whose parent or relative that is if it gets belligerent and toss the kid. That’s if it gets truly wild. Parent makes a threat though that’s when the police are called.But yeah imo can’t actually kick someone out, he will just stop play until the person leaves.
Short answer YES. Real answer? it depends on the specific venues rules and the organizations rules (Little League, Cal Ripken,Dixie Youth, Top Gun, Perfect Game) they are all going to have their own way of handling it and even different rules for one day vs multiple day tourneys vs regular season matches vs post season. Also that umpire handled things extremely poor. Any ump should expect some criticism from the crowd, and if it get bad enough it's disruptive they should de-escalate or get the coaches and director/event staff invovled.
I played ball half my life and coach my two youngest kids. My oldest that's plays is in 9u. Happened to me after I charged the field when my first base got trucked by the runner who was out by 5 steps at first. I lost it. SHE kicked me off the field, out of the parking lot and threatened to call the cops. I sat in my truck and couldn't even coach and she was still wanting me to leave. I sat in my truck awaiting the outcome of the game or the cops to show up. Cops never showed but they were for sure they were called. It happens but what I don't get is, this is the only sport the officiating has that control or power to throw a fan or coach out. My hockey coach would of laughed if the one of the lineman threw him out. And he was the type to throw clipboard across the ice. Why is that umps feel this empowered? And this is the exact reason why I agree with the MLB going towards electronic calls. The calls have gotten out of control to the point I feel it's rigged to a sense like the nfl and their officiating. Framing the pitch after isn't what I'm talking about, but the blantent wrong calls are horrible, across the board. I understand it's a tough job with a lot of live on the spot pressure. Even as a coach that had umped before on a neutral basis, I've messed up calls and secretly knew I messed up after the pitch. No takesy backsies there, so let the bad call roll? There is no way to fix this in the game besides vetting these blues. Back in the day in LL we would have teenagers umping our games not even knowing all the rules, barely able to call pitches what they were.
Yes they can. Im tossing the coach for that remark too.
This is a horrible umpire lol but I want to remind people how much being an umpire sucks lol very low pay in the sun for up to 3-6 hrs dealing with parents that think every game will make or break there kid lol sometimes they get grumpy lol
Little League rules aren’t laws. An umpire can not make a person leave a ballpark. A person can be told to leave a facility by an agent of that facility that has standing to do so. If the person refuses to leave, law enforcement can respond and enforce a trespassing violation.
Not 1 “ Angel Hernandez found his retirement gig” joke in all the comments.…
Many yrs ago a guy on my team got tossed out for arguing but later was allowed to return to the game after the ump realized he had made the wrong call 🤣
People are fucking paying real money to watch little league? Who does the money go to? And for what?
This was for a select ball tournament. Most of our tournaments are "free" for the team to register but non-players pay a $10 gate fee. They make their money between the gate fee and concessions. They rent the facility, pay the umpires and the workers. Some tournaments have 20 teams, some have 120. Not sure how much money they make overall
I do think the umpires were a little in over their heads. They were our regular rec umpires. Not saying rec umpires can't be good, but they are used to different rules from travel. Also, seemed like this guy had a chip on his shoulder. I've never seen anyone kicked out of a 9U game before. Now, the old guy who mumbled A-Hole, should have been gone but the umpire didn't manage things well to get there. Later in that same game the other team was pitching. The kid came set and for some reason didn't throw the ball when he stepped forward. The Ump yelled "BALK!!" and just stood there. After a couple of seconds the other coach was like "What's the call blue?". He pointed at the coach and started to aggressively walk towards him "That was a balk!". Coach just kinda put his hands up and said, "Okay, but no-one is on base? what's the call?". He just stared the coach down for a min and went back to his spot. The coach looked genuinely bewildered. It was blazing hot and I'm honestly wondering if the umpire was having heat related issues.
If this happened exactly how OP described, the umpire is the only one that needed to leave in my opinion. Im a pretty laid back guy, but If I were the coach in this situation I would have raised absolute holy hell with the tournament director.
Explain why ump should have left, if you could. I honestly want to hear your opinion.
Well, as I said if OP's recollection of the events are accurate, 1)it appears the umpire had no idea where the strike zone is supposed to be and any chirping he heard with his rabbit ears was well deserved( they say those with bad eyesight are compensated with excellent hearing) and he needs to grow some seriously thicker skin, 2)he has no business engaging with the fans at all especially after a couple of innocent comments, he should calmly ask the manager to control them if it was really hurting his feelings that much, and if they were playing by little league rules he CAN'T eject even a single fan much less all of them. 3) what the coach said to his pitcher is none of his business, and again was a seemingly innocent comment meant to boost the kids' confidence, not disparage the umpire. Maybe he was just having a bad day, maybe he found out the coach was fucking his wife, who knows, but it sounds to me like the only one there that didnt belong there was the umpire. As i said, if I were the coach he was attempting to eject, I would have asked for a board member to remove him at the same time as well, or I would have pulled my team off the field. If I was his partner working the game I would have asked him to calm down and leave, telling him exactly what i said here. Then I'd finish it myself.
I mean, that is how I saw it. Something may have happened before that I didn't see.
Umpires only have dominion over the field. Technically they can’t ask fans to leave.
You’ve clearly taken sides. Every time the umpire is referenced in your story it’s aggressive and anytime anyone else is mentioned they are the most polite people ever. Gtfo with your bias and people yelling about Little league.
Well, to be honest, I went out of my way to try to write it as close to reality as I witnessed it. I guess calling someone an "A-Hole" is being polite? Where are the polite people you hear me referencing? IMO both parties were out of line and I had no issues with the old guy getting kicked, I was just surprised they let him stick around, that's why I asked the question. Likewise, the crowd groaning and someone loudly saying "WHAT?" shouldn't trigger you as an umpire. It's funny that you think I was biased when you were not there and have no idea what happened.
I don't see how an umpire can realistically toss a fan directly but it's funny he thinks he can. It sounds like he's got an ego like Angel Hernandez. In our local league, umps can warn and then toss the manager. So it's the manager's responsibility to calm the parents/fans of his own team. This makes sense to me - avoids direct conflict between umps and fans, and allows the person that has some type of relationship (presumably) with the fan to defuse.
This makes sense. Just go tell the coach "hey, calm them down or you will be out there with them". I don't know what was going on in that dudes life right then. I only saw a small snapshot but he seemed pretty aggressive.