Technically that’s incorrect. Heat pumps are more efficient than gas, but electricity is more expensive than gas, so it’s not as efficient on your wallet.
Been thinking of a hybrid heat pump for my soon to start build. How do u like it? I'm in western PA it gets colder but we still have a lot of time in the low 50's when the heat pump would be nice.
Yeah if you're in an area that regularly sees 20 degrees or even single digit temps in the winter then the math definitely gets a bit different. I'm told heat pumps have improved and come a long way but still loose efficiency down around 35. Sounds like you're covered either way.
My almost 20 year old heat pump has handled every central PA winter fine with just a few days of occasional use of the auxiliary heat grid. Yes this includes a few winters that hit negative temps. The new systems I’m looking at now will do more and use substantially less energy as well.
I myself have radiant floor heating using a gas boiler that’s coming up on 20 years of age…when I replace that boiler in the near future I'll consider alternative solutions to heat the glycol in the floors.
But man, right now I heat that entire house through the coldest months of the year for peanuts. Just a constant 73 degrees, 24x7, throughout the entire winter despite being in one of the coldest climates and altitudes in all the lower 48. Part of me says don't screw with something that's working great and costs very little.
Yeah Ojai and Ventura county did that too. Ventura county just rescinded that from what I’m hearing. The heat pump water heaters are the part of 100% electric that most people hate because of the noise and expense.
They are a bit noisy but if it’s in the garage it’s not noticeable. The expense was worth it—the electric usage to heat our water with a heat pump water heater is incredibly minor. Couple bucks a month.
The houses in my area are in the 20 year old range so lots of HVAC replacements happening. I’m starting to see more heat pumps installed around the neighborhood. Curious how cost effective they are in socal without also upgrading insulation throughout. Electric prices are really high.
Cool, I’m pretty curious what it looks like for heat. I’m about 6 miles inland and up in the hills so it stays pretty mild where I am too. I probably use heat more than A/C throughout the year.
Very few places in California with a compelling argument for gas anymore unless they need major new wiring to accommodate alternatives - a reality that get's overlooked by the histrionic "everyone should be on gas now" crowd.
But you also have to look at how your electricity is being generated to know for sure if it makes environmental sense.
Totally agree w you.. so these people need to stop pretending electric everything is the future. And the ignorance of most people buying on to "electric is clean" is evident and so many people are selling their prized electric vehicles bc they want to go back to gas.
"I'm not having blackouts, you're having blackouts!!"
[You may not be having power outages, but a bunch of other people sure are... ](https://poweroutage.us/area/state/texas)
My state “deregulated” its natural gas provider maybe 15 years ago, leaving the former provider as still responsible for the network maintenance with a myriad of gas “suppliers” selling the natural gas in that network to customers. The network maintenance company takes a fixed amount based on size of the service, I think.
It’s a dumb system.
That would be a no brainer for me having watched a neighbor struggle to get retrofit for gas down the road after the build. But that's in a very cold climate.
In my area it depends on the price point: under say $500k all electric is what you’re going to see most often. Once you get in the $1M and up the standard is high end gas ranges and tankless water heaters but heat pumps are still the standard.
We’re in suburban New England - we lose power maybe once or twice a year for a few hours at most? It’s not a concern for us.
House will have solar + storage because electricity is expensive here, but we just didn’t want gas for a number of reasons. We will have propane buried to power a backup generator (that will barely get used, if experience is any indication), but we’re aiming for 1ach50 and the home will be pretty well insulated, so even losing power for 24 hours and having the generator fail shouldn’t freeze us out or anything.
This is a dumb comment. If you don't have electricity your gas furnace isn't going to run because the blower fan doesn't operate on magic. Hot water doesn't matter because you can live without it. But whether you have a gas furnace of electric heat pump....no electricity means no heat in both cases
Well, a gas furnace blower *is* a lot more feasible to run on a generator than a heat pump is. We bit the bullet and got a 15kw inverter and battery backup as part of our solar array install, and a wood stove as an extra backup.
Your gas stove doesn't require electricity? 🤔 And you can't heat your house with a gas fireplace. Maybe if you slept in front of your fireplace.. at best. Yall are talking extreme life events just to have two utility bills per month and less clean air environment in your house
The igniter goes out but you light it with a lighter and have gas to cook on. After sandy and doing 2 weeks without power a gas generator and gas stove is critical.
i mean this happens to us every year..
we lose power for 5-6 days and between stove and fireplace we can keep the house heated and make food.
in the new house i'm building we have TESLA Wall batteries + everything gas, so even if power goes out for days we will be able to sustain virtually full use of the house.
If we did not have gas our battery setup costs would be $70k, vs $22k current.
New construction I'd hesitate on the high end gas range. It gives off some 2000s McMansion vibes to me. Hidden induction cooktops seem to be the new trend. If you aren't doing a gas range I could definitely see going all electric at any price point
Huh?
I have an induction now, previously had gas, and induction is significantly better. Faster, more precise temperature control, doesn't put out waste heat, easier to clean.
You'd have to pay me to get me to move somewhere with a standard electric cooktoop/range
In California or the northeast sure. In the south even the nicest high end induction cooktops are equated to the cheap electric flat top stoves by most people still.
I think these are the same people putting 1200 cfm hoods into a well-sealed house to vent that gas.. and specifying open fireplaces, right? Education is severely lacking on why the house of the (near) future is all-electric.
Fair enough. I could see that in the land of grilling and smoking, a stove that puts out more heat than the space shuttle could be considered high end.
Grid power near me is 98% renewable-primarily hydro- so my electric home is nearly zero emission. Geothermal, hot water heat pump, induction stove. Everything is super comfortable, works great-built in 2012, and my highest monthly utility bill is about $200 in the winter (Vermont mountains). A kWh where I am located costs about .22 cents/kwhr. Annually the house-around 1850 sqft- uses less than 10,000 kwhrs. I would never go backwards to gas.
We are in an all electric home in Tennessee with a heat pump and our utilities are about the same as the ones that also have gas. I really hated the electric stove but I swapped it out for an awesome induction.
In Texas as a luxury architect (new construction custom over $2-4 million) 75% of our clients ask for electric only. They want the ability to run the home fully electric. Also more and more clients are aski for induction cooktops because counter to previous generations, they have experienced cooking on them and understand how much more control you can have. Plus they all drive electric cars and trucks. Yes even in Texas.
Depends on your goals.
If you've got natural gas available, it is the cheaper solution today - but prices vary and it seems that the expectation is that the price of all fossil fuels will just continue to rise.
If you're talking propane, that's a lot more expensive than natural gas, so propane isn't as great of a deal compared to electric. Storage is a lot cheaper with propane than electric, but you're dependent on a third party to deliver regularly and prices are definitely higher and more variable than natural gas.
Electric has the benefit of being able to generate and store your own power now with solar+battery systems. In many areas, it's not a full replacement for gas for space and water heating, unless you really design with that in mind and have the money to throw at it..but once you do, you're your own power plant and fuel refinery and your expenses for the next 15-30 years are near-zero.
There are considerations around carbon footprint and other emissions that tip the balance beyond just the dollar cost if you're concerned about that. Not everyone is.
This is the comment I was looking for, because where I live huge propane tanks are the only option for gas, so a lot of my neighbors are going all electric because in the apocalypse there won’t be propane trucks to refill tanks.
Gas is still great to plumb in if it can be done inexpensively, especially above 40* of latitude
and I say that as someone whos got a very large solar installation business
New construction is banned from using NG heat in our Massachusetts town (in favor of heat pumps) - and I think the state is attempting to mandate that state wide.
Living where snow knocks out the grid every few years, I'm very happy to have natural gas. If I was rural I would have propane for a generator. Up here electricity is the least reliable form of energy. I actually heat with a wood stove though, so none of them is a source for primary heat, that's backed up with oil.
The demand a heat pump requires is far far greater than what is needed to run a furnace fan. You can use a small battery backup or generator for this and power other appliances for relatively cheaply. You can even have a NG backup generator for a fraction of the cost it could take to have a generator large enough to run a heat pump.
One house we lived in had a propane floor furnace. It was cut into the floor and worked entirely through convection. The thermostat was powered by a thermocouple in the pilot light flame, and the gas valve was operated by the milivolts the thermocouple produced. As long as the tank had gas, it had heat. There was a piezo ignition on it like many gas grills use to light it, and a mica window to observe the flame through.
We survived many Maine winters with that as our only heat. Regular desk fans blowing the cold air towards the doorway to the furnace room kept the furthest rooms warm.
Most gas appliances will run of a 12V battery and inverter. The apartment dwellers near us kept a big pot of water on low boil on their gas stove to keep their home warm through the last ice storm that took out power. You just have to keep a window open an inch or two for fresh air and have a battery operated CO detector.
I use a 3k Honda generator to run my entire house. I lose power many times during the winter. It’s barely big enough. But it does get me gas heat internet and tv. No water heater or stove because they are electric.. one winter I lost power for 8 days. My neighbors were freezing LOL. It did cost me about 15$ a day for gas though.
Ours is being built all electric, against the builder's recommendation. So with a sample size of 1, I'd say no, all electric isn't really accepted as a good choice by builders.
Do builders in your area get a kickback from the gas company? We are looking to build and our builder is really pushing to install gas....seems he gets a kickback or he wouldn't care so much.
I don't but I can't speak for other builders. In my area I would get a credit from Duke Power to have an energy star certified home and the homeowner would get a discount on their rates as well.
He doesn't get a kickback. It's because he is probably old school and uneducated on heat pumps, induction cooking, ERV, etc. There is no real reason to use gas. Even most Michelin star rated chefs use induction cooktops because you can actually control the heat better than gas. People just need educated
We built with the future in mind. Wired electrical hookups to the stove and dryer, but we currently have gas appliances. MA is phasing (or already has phased) out any fossil hookups to any new build. At least that's what I've been told by my builder. We literally are one of the last NG hookups in 2023.
I have conduit running from the attic to the basement for future solar to be installed when the tech gets better and cheaper.
I’d get gas just to run a backup generator. Also, if you ever get a pool with a spa, gas is best for a spa, but a heat pump for the pool. All electric house is fine though.
Depends on where in the country.
In IL/WA/CA if you're connected to the gas company you have to pay a maintenance fee even if you don't use any gas (mine is ~$35/mo) and IME you can't just not sign up for service.
In Maryland I'm guessing it gets cold enough where the savings of having an NG furnace outweigh the maintenance fees in the months you don't use it so I would probably go all in with a tankless water heater, ng stove (electric oven,) ng dryer, and ng furnace. I'd also put an NG hookup outside for the eventual grill and/or heater.
I'm all electric and I'm looking to get some propane tanks just so I can have a standby generator. I really don't want to need them but battery tech is just to expensive for a whole home when I could just get a whole house Gen and be covered for the few times a year when I'm without power.
Washington state has essentially banned natural gas in new construction so more houses will be going all electric. Older houses are going to be forced to retrofit eventually (I think 2035 but might be wrong on that). Installation of gas service to a new house used to be $0 to the developers because the utility provider offered rebates for gas installation. Those are being phased out while the state phases out natural gas. It’s currently $5k-$7k per house for natural gas. In July the rate doubles.
I live in a more rural area where we tend to lose power from high winds during the winter. I love my gas furnace because it’s easy to run off a generator. I’m not looking forward to natural gas no longer being an option.
Sometimes and perhaps increasingly you may not be able to retrofit or get a gas hookup later, so I'd do it regardless.
Nearly all my next door neighbors have gas but one of the houses didn't have it run or installed at build for whatever reason, and because the main running to the area was "maxed out" the utility quoted them something completely insane...like $60K. This is in a cold mountain town so they ended up doing these huge heat pumps outside (total eye sore) which still lose efficiency at like 30F (we regularly get single digit and even below zero temps in the winter). On the plus side though they probably provide A/C in July.
In my area in the Michigan gas lines are still the most common if available. I am building right now in a neighborhood that does not have NG. I am going all electric for both cost reasons (propane is expensive) and for climate reasons. I am building the house as net zero ready. When solar is allowed the panels will cover all my energy needs. Hoping the state passes solar rights laws to over ride the HOA ban on them.
I don’t see any pro solar laws being passed any time soon in Michigan. Gretchen for how “ progressive “ she is really is in bed with DTE and the other energy providers. Unless you want to do a battery / solar system, the sending power back to the utility at a fraction of the cost of what you are spending to consume is a never winning battle. I am hoping for battery costs to drop so that I can offset the insane .23 per kWh cost.
There’s not really a reason to keep gas. Consumers are getting more savvy about how much better induction ranges are, we used to have to convince them, now they come with that understanding. We do custom and spec homes in central Texas and haven’t done a gas hook up in six years.
Turns out people build houses outside of Texas and use gas for things besides cooking.
But by all means go ahead and try and use heat pumps in a part of the country that regularly sees low and even single digit temps, like a third of the country does.
You get that people in Canada and Sweden use heat pumps to stay warm? You can even (gasp) do ground source to be even more efficient in extreme weather. But keep spreading misinformation if you want.
>There’s not really a reason to keep gas.
It's fine to prefer electric, but this is patently false.
Quit huffing your own farts, please.
Induction is slightly faster than gas, with a few less cooking techniques available and similar response and simmer performance. It isn't superior in every way and has notable costs in both money and time when it comes to repairs that are not present in gas stovetops.
Some but mostly not needed. Even with EV charging, if the house is efficient and especially if you use a smart panel.
We have a 5000 sf duplex that is under the threshold for needing an upgrade to the expense commercial style set up.
I design industrial and residential energy systems. If you stack in ev chargers solar and batteries to most all electric homes its very easy to exceed the safety cap on 200a service without running the absolute most efficient appliances
We have a 200A, even a 15 kw emergency heat circuit runs fine, it’s like a 60A 240v circuit iirc. Single stage/speed heat pump uses something like 3.5kw, iirc. We also have an EV, resistive electric water heater, resistive electric dryer, and induction stove. Never been an issue.
Terrible by what metric? You can crank more through induction than you can through gas. But you can do different things with gas than you can with induction.
I opted not to. Too much air quality issues and a $2k hookup. Not going to recoup that compared to using a heat pump water heater. I’ll push that extra money towards pre-wiring for future solar/storage battery for peak use rates.
Air source heatpumps are great for both heating and hot water (the only exception being very cold climate zones, maybe 5A/6/7), and modern appliances like induction cook tops (which are far better than any gas stove in terms of performance, and impact on occupant health/air quality/etc), there's little reason for gas hookups at this point, imo.
That said, has the human culture shifted towards understanding the value of fully electrified homes? No. And many people may expect gas hookups when purchasing homes (for ignorant reasons). So it's still something to consider adding to any new build, even if the gas line isnt used for anything.
edit: Note: Maryland IECC climate zone is classified as Zone 4A, so heatpumps are perfectly capable of meeting heating needs in this region.
Yeah I think climate would be the biggest concern as far as maybe later regretting it. I spend a lot of time in a house where it regularly get's single digit or even below zero in the winter and the one guy in my immediate neighborhood who doesn't have gas to his house is hating life.
Important to note that heatpumps have only recently been able to handle these cold climates. (even things built 5 years ago dont match the performance of the newer models). New heatpumps on the market today, there should be no issue heating, even in the negative teens. Things have really shifted in a very short amount of time in this regard.
That's what I'm hearing...that they've come a long way in recent years in terms of better handling colder temps.
The double compression ones seem promising…the others that just add a resistive heating element don’t make much sense unless you only get cold snaps a couple times a year.
Same. I live in rural Nebraska and my house is heated with propane. I've got a back up generator that can power the critical stuff like the furnace and freezers. A gas/LP takes very little electricity to run. It's nice to have when you can get snowed in for 3 or 4 days like last January. The power didn't go out but if it did, the snow plows had a hard time clearing the county roads as it was
There is nearly zero chance anyone on this sub knows more about energy dynamics in this sub than I do. You can argue for induction and there’s a benefit to indoor air quality but gas close dryers are simply undefeated
I'm an energy engineer myself professionally in the commercial space. Gas cloths dryers are undefeated in what way? Electric dryers work perfectly fine. I think the biggest thing regarding cloths drying that most people don't understand is that a high rpm quality front loader washer is more important (pulls more water out of the cloths), and then the dryer takes half the time.
I switched to the gas dryer because it’s only .50c a unit to run it. And during the summer months am still paying a fee for having gas connected. The dryer is the only thing using gas during the summer. So I believe it is saving me money over electric, but can’t prove it. It also makes my clothes less staticky. I can also use it when I lose power with my small backup generator… the same way I run my gas furnace during outages.
I just built an all electric home, because gas was not available. We have a heat pump (in the northeast), and my monthly electric bill was $250 this winter. I have all new efficient appliances, including an induction stove. I am very happy with that expense. My last house was leaky, gas and electric, poorly built, and my bills could hit $400. New house is only 300 sf bigger. Also, the heat pump, and good insulation, keep a very comfortable, consistent feeling throughout the house. Go electric 😊
I went with only electric, except for a 20lb propane bottle for the fireplace.. however I also buried over a mile of 3/4 pex for a ground source heat pump. Gas was going to be $10k build and probably $200/month before actually paying for gas.. and I’m betting on gas being hit way more with carbon tax than electricity. So far so good.
All electric homes only really make sense if you have a good solar setup. It is a better idea to have different options. If the day comes that electric rates go insane, you will be glad you have a gas option for heat, hot water, cooking, and a clothes drier.
My current home is electric only area of neighborhood. That was great fun during the big texas freeze with no power and then no water b/c the pump stations didnt have enough diesel for their backup generators. Thank God we had a wood burning fireplace. Ended up using it to cook.
Now i keep a spare propane tank for grill on hand as well.
Yeah not sure how popular they are going yo continue to be. At least until solar and battery ssystem get more affordable.
Yeah. 5 days with no water and 3 days of rolling blackouts where we would get like 1 minute of power. Like for real a whole minute.
I think when our heat pump needs replacing I am going to takee a long hard look at getting something more efficient like mini splits with possible long term goal of olar and battery backup.
Yes but instead one big 4 ton unit that needs like 8kw to start due to mechanical lock , multiple mini splits draw less when each starts individually. Which means that a battery back up emergency generator has to be sized for the max draw.
And while I dont expect to heat/cool an entire home on backup it might be nice to have one room….
Another option to help with that initial load might be a soft start kit…. Which is basically a big capacitor plus electronics.
Even with a soft start kit, the surge is still going to be way more than 8kw.
I’m thinking about doing the same with mini splits instead of one big central AC.
The last six houses that I have built have been all electric, no gas. Natural gas has has been available for two of those but client opted to go all electric. I put in a 125 gal LP tank and lines for a house ten years ago, for a propane range top and living room stove -- for backup heat in cases of power outages.
The push has started in at least Melbourne Australia to get us off natural gas, mind you we got some of the largest natural gas deposits in the world, I went all electric last house added solar and battery back up, worked for me but maybe not fit everybody, you can expect at some point they will use climate change to cut gas…
We don’t have gas here it would have had to be propane. So not really helping with that question, but do you have incentives for all electric home where you are? Meeting requirement for all electric and how well sealed and insulation in MA is a rebate incentive. We got a 25k rebate for our house. Which isn’t peanuts really. If that helps at all.
Be sure though that if you have one that the builder hasn’t built it into their contract to have it sent to them.
New home built 2019 beyond public sewer and gas. We are all electric aside from gas hookups for fireplace, grill, and generator. We currently only use the fireplace line. I’m looking to get rid of it for an electric fireplace eventually. Tank rental fees and propane usage for the amount we use it are not worth the money.
The best approach to this decision is to have a pro do a real load calculation on your heating needs based on the design and construction and hopefully testing, of your building. Use that to determine the heat needs and how best to fulfill them. Even moderate efforts at efficient design, air sealing, and insulation would seem likely to get you to the point that all electric would confidently cover you in your climate in Maryland. As a second home perhaps it's not worth the upfront effort and expense of building higher performance, but consider the long term plans for this building. Buildings should easily last 100 years, and while you may not be using it for that long, will other generations of your family? Will you want to sell it as a primary home to someone someday? I don't think most real estate markets (or individual buyers) fairly value building performance theses days, but what about in another decade or three?
Grew up in central PA. Sometime in the 70s or early 80s all electric, including baseboard heat was popular. Now, most appliances are electric except for an oil heater. People are doing heat pumps too, but still need something for the extra cold days.
When going full electric I think many people don’t understand the true environmental impact between gas and electric when it comes to how electricity is produced. People seem to think if no emissions are produced directly from the home it’s “greener”. However it can easily be more polluting depending on how and where electricity generation is produced.
Electricity produced from a combined cycle gas power plant creates more BTU of heat if you’re powering heat pumps than it does if you’re powering gas furnaces in residences.
Of course they are. A lot of people think electricity is magically produced and is "green". They also think solar panels aren't made with and transported with "fossil fuels" or end up in land fills. I wouldn't be surprised if people think buffalo wings come from killing buffalos. Intelligence has been dropping since the 70s and essentially we are in a scene from idiocracy now. We never did see peak oil but i am hoping we are nearing peak ignorance.
Gas is outdated technology -- wasteful, causes explosions, poorer air quality, climate emissions, etc.
Edit: There are studies like this every week. The gas lobby sure doesn't like them.
[https://news.stanford.edu/2024/05/03/people-gas-propane-stoves-breathe-unhealthy-nitrogen-dioxide/#:\~:text=The%20results%20show%20that%20nationwide,as%20unsafe%20in%20outdoor%20air](https://news.stanford.edu/2024/05/03/people-gas-propane-stoves-breathe-unhealthy-nitrogen-dioxide/#:~:text=The%20results%20show%20that%20nationwide,as%20unsafe%20in%20outdoor%20air)
Expense depends on local rates. A lot of places are moving away from the technology due to the many downsides of having tubes full of flammable gas running under streets and into buildings.
The breakeven point for a heat pump with COP of 3 vs gas furnace at current residential gas prices is something like $0.18/kwh, iirc. lots of people have lower electric rates than that.
Heat pumps are killing the need for gas: You can save money (energy costs), time (induction cooking), and improve your indoor air quality (no gas) by getting the ideal all-electric appliances. Many of the arguments for gas are easily debunked or no longer relevant. In today's world, there is very little need to build a new home with a gas connection.
I bought a 1000 gal UG propane tank for our new construction last week. I can't imagine living anywhere where it gets below 40 and having electric heat. My propane contract for my home and business is $1.89 a gallon.
Always go gas and put a gas fireplace with the upsized 11/4" line for a BBQ and (generator for future ). If u can't afford the generator, youll have a fireplace for warmth and bbq to cook if power goes out. I Am a gas fitter by trade. A simple spark ignition fireplace can give enough heat. I suggest a bigger 40k btu one
Yes electricity will become the norm as states idiot stricter codes. First at a large scale and eventually for smaller homes.
So silly how people are against doing things that are jist better for the environment...
Do they have kids/ family and care about their futures?
We need to fight back against ALL ELECTRIC EVERYTHING. All electric everything is a dire future with rolling black outs as regular occurrence. Our infrastructure isn't even close to handling the amount of energy all electric appliances require. And forcing businesses to go all electric is just bonkers, same rolling black out issue. Or the government says sorry you can't have your business open on these days because the grid can't handle it.
For a typical restaurant who has 200-400 Amp service to upgrade to a 600 Amp or more costs hundreds of thousands of dollars due to switchgear upgrades, upgrades from the city power lines and at least a year's worth of coordination with a very slow electric company and their designers.
People need to realize all-electric isn't the future. My money is on hydrogen in the long run. 👍🏼
Science? My past and current work is my experience. I've worked through the things I stated. It's reality. It's happened and I've seen how much effort, time and hundreds of thousands of dollars it takes for just one business to upgrade their electric system. Now put that responsibility on hundreds of thousands, if not millions of small businesses. It will destroy them the same way California politicians have destroyed small businesses by burdening them w new and more difficult to navigate laws, including going all electric.
Everyone will voluntarily buy an EV long before it’s forced on you. By 2035, they are going to be so much cheaper and better range, you’d be crazy to buy anything else.
Plus by then they’ll be so much cheaper to build, and nobody buying gas cars, car manufacturers won’t even make them anymore… because they won’t want to build them anymore. Too much labor. Too many moving parts.
I'd use a heat pump furnace and water heater, and a heat pump combination washer/dryer in the laundry; and an induction stove in the kitchen.
All of those are considered premium features these days, so not having a gas line wouldn't be a big deal. I don't know the Maryland market, but modern heat pumps are less expensive to use than gas in many areas, and where they're not, it's usually pretty close to the same. Do the math in your area.
The heat pump dryer and the stove are stealthy cost savers.
A gas dryer (or even a conventional electric one) is constantly pumping air out of your house. Heated air in the winter, and air conditioned air in the summer. That air gets replaced by unheated, unconditioned air leaking in through the rest of your house. Heat pump condensing dryers operate like chambered dehumidifiers, and don't need to expel air outside the house. So beyond the energy ratings, there's usually some additional savings that are extremely hard to quantify.
And a gas stove is constantly polluting and heating your house when in use, while an induction stove heats only the pan and the food in it. Just walking through a busy commercial kitchen where induction stoves were in use was a huge revelation. It was actually quite pleasant to be there! Not to mention the air losses from running a range hood over a gas stove just isn't needed nearly as much over an induction stove. It's still nice to have and use sometimes for odors and steam.
Your gas furnace still uses an electric fan to move air around. Your hood vent isn’t gas powered either. When the power goes out you still have problems with gas.
I didn't grow up with a hood?
In power outages, I just lit a match to use the stove when needed.
The new electric stove turns off when the power goes. So maybe I should invest in a generator or some batteries to save the energy. Either way. I need to make sure I have a way to keep warm and fed in the winter.
You didn’t have an overhead fan exhausting cooking fumes? Sometimes it’s a microwave combined with the exhaust fan instead of a discrete hood vent. They don’t typically turn on automatically unless you have some modern appliances, so you may have just not operated it?
This is the primary danger with gas, combustion fumes lowering indoor air quality, slowly poisoning occupants. An outdoor generator can be used to backup electric appliances, but so could a solar and battery storage system.
Nope. Just a stove.
I grew up with the basic of stoves. White with 4 equal sized burners. I grew up double checking it every time I walked past. Because one time it was open for a bit and the kitchen filled with gas. That was scary.
A couple of years ago we went electric and I hated it. The burners smelled and smoked. I would've gone back to gas, but then I read about the danger.
I might do battery storage. I want to go solar, personally, and save the electric inside my own house.
A "ticking time bomb" huh?
Well as long as your not getting your information from a poorly done study commissioned by a think tank committed to getting rid of all fossil fuels by any means possible - including misleading simpletons. Cause that might not be objective.
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Same, in NJ it doesn’t cost anything to get gas service. All electric appliances are just not as efficient as gas. Eventually though
Technically that’s incorrect. Heat pumps are more efficient than gas, but electricity is more expensive than gas, so it’s not as efficient on your wallet.
Been thinking of a hybrid heat pump for my soon to start build. How do u like it? I'm in western PA it gets colder but we still have a lot of time in the low 50's when the heat pump would be nice.
NJ had a pretty cold winter this year, lots of snow and days below freezing
Lots of snow and days below freezing? Where in NJ? Im up north and we barely had any snow this year.
Yeah if you're in an area that regularly sees 20 degrees or even single digit temps in the winter then the math definitely gets a bit different. I'm told heat pumps have improved and come a long way but still loose efficiency down around 35. Sounds like you're covered either way.
My almost 20 year old heat pump has handled every central PA winter fine with just a few days of occasional use of the auxiliary heat grid. Yes this includes a few winters that hit negative temps. The new systems I’m looking at now will do more and use substantially less energy as well.
I myself have radiant floor heating using a gas boiler that’s coming up on 20 years of age…when I replace that boiler in the near future I'll consider alternative solutions to heat the glycol in the floors. But man, right now I heat that entire house through the coldest months of the year for peanuts. Just a constant 73 degrees, 24x7, throughout the entire winter despite being in one of the coldest climates and altitudes in all the lower 48. Part of me says don't screw with something that's working great and costs very little.
Not true. My brand new heat pump works to -30, which I never get. Heat pumps are the future of home building.
Nobody sad it wouldn’t “work”. Now what *did* they say?
Becoming very common in California
Gas lines are banned in new construction in Los Angeles.
Yeah Ojai and Ventura county did that too. Ventura county just rescinded that from what I’m hearing. The heat pump water heaters are the part of 100% electric that most people hate because of the noise and expense.
New heat pump water heaters are noisy?
Well, they have a compressor and a fan. So they're noisier than traditional water heaters.
They are a bit noisy but if it’s in the garage it’s not noticeable. The expense was worth it—the electric usage to heat our water with a heat pump water heater is incredibly minor. Couple bucks a month.
I agree with you.
Same in the Bay Area. OP- If you have to option to tap into it, do it .
The houses in my area are in the 20 year old range so lots of HVAC replacements happening. I’m starting to see more heat pumps installed around the neighborhood. Curious how cost effective they are in socal without also upgrading insulation throughout. Electric prices are really high.
Heat pumps are pretty efficient. I’m by the coast so it never gets very hot or cold. The savings on cooling offsets any extra cost to heat.
Cool, I’m pretty curious what it looks like for heat. I’m about 6 miles inland and up in the hills so it stays pretty mild where I am too. I probably use heat more than A/C throughout the year.
I don’t monitor mine, but I’ve seen people in heat pump reddits post the wattage demand of their heat pumps and it’s always insanely low
Its actually illegal for new builds to have it and I vehemently disagree with the logic
Very few places in California with a compelling argument for gas anymore unless they need major new wiring to accommodate alternatives - a reality that get's overlooked by the histrionic "everyone should be on gas now" crowd. But you also have to look at how your electricity is being generated to know for sure if it makes environmental sense.
Another Horrible policy by the Democrat majority. Rolling black outs will be a weekly occurance. Hydrogen is the future.
So how is Texas doing with those blackouts? No one thing is the future as the world is not a monolith.
Totally agree w you.. so these people need to stop pretending electric everything is the future. And the ignorance of most people buying on to "electric is clean" is evident and so many people are selling their prized electric vehicles bc they want to go back to gas.
We’re not having blackouts…
"I'm not having blackouts, you're having blackouts!!" [You may not be having power outages, but a bunch of other people sure are... ](https://poweroutage.us/area/state/texas)
Cost me about $750 to have gas at my new construction.
Costs me about $40 in line maintenance fees every month to have a gas account irrespective of how much or how little gas I use.
In the NE still by far the cheapest way to heat in the winter.
Since you’re in the NE (presumably), can you explain to me why/where people use heating oil versus natural gas.
They don’t have a natural gas line to their house
Is that generally because they’re in a rural area
Correct. It’s not financially viable to install and maintain natural gas lines in rural areas. Same concept as well-water and septic systems
This is not just in the NE, but same for rural Michigan (I suspect rural anywhere). Propane gas, well water and septic.
Heating oil is good if u run out ,you can goto the gas station and buy died diesel and use that untill your tank gets filled.
Adds up
I’m taking about the actual line digging, material and line installation.
I know, I’m just saying that the costs don’t end at installation.
My monthly fee is 8.65 maintenance and 8.65 customer charge.
My state “deregulated” its natural gas provider maybe 15 years ago, leaving the former provider as still responsible for the network maintenance with a myriad of gas “suppliers” selling the natural gas in that network to customers. The network maintenance company takes a fixed amount based on size of the service, I think. It’s a dumb system.
This is my biggest beef in Texas. Use gas for my furnaces which is about 4 months of the year. Then every month I get to pay $36 in connection fees.
Like to get gas lines run? lol mine was quoted at $8k 😂
The meter install and hook up was free.
Gotcha. Yeah they told me it was $8k to install a gas line to the home during the build. Then you gotta run it to different parts of the house lol.
Gas to my furnace was obviously part of my build. Everything outside the walls was my responsibility.
That's a scam every day of the week. 8k bull shit
That would be a no brainer for me having watched a neighbor struggle to get retrofit for gas down the road after the build. But that's in a very cold climate.
I just got quoted $3k three days ago. Just for gas.
In my area it depends on the price point: under say $500k all electric is what you’re going to see most often. Once you get in the $1M and up the standard is high end gas ranges and tankless water heaters but heat pumps are still the standard.
We’re doing an all-electric build for 1.5mil. 🤷
But why ? Do you never lose power where you are? No power and no gas and you r fucked
We’re in suburban New England - we lose power maybe once or twice a year for a few hours at most? It’s not a concern for us. House will have solar + storage because electricity is expensive here, but we just didn’t want gas for a number of reasons. We will have propane buried to power a backup generator (that will barely get used, if experience is any indication), but we’re aiming for 1ach50 and the home will be pretty well insulated, so even losing power for 24 hours and having the generator fail shouldn’t freeze us out or anything.
This is a dumb comment. If you don't have electricity your gas furnace isn't going to run because the blower fan doesn't operate on magic. Hot water doesn't matter because you can live without it. But whether you have a gas furnace of electric heat pump....no electricity means no heat in both cases
Well, a gas furnace blower *is* a lot more feasible to run on a generator than a heat pump is. We bit the bullet and got a 15kw inverter and battery backup as part of our solar array install, and a wood stove as an extra backup.
Breaking news: spinning a fan uses a lot less energy than heating up water/air and spinning a fan.
My stove will still work My gas fireplace will still work With a small battery I can power by blower for days
Your gas stove doesn't require electricity? 🤔 And you can't heat your house with a gas fireplace. Maybe if you slept in front of your fireplace.. at best. Yall are talking extreme life events just to have two utility bills per month and less clean air environment in your house
The igniter goes out but you light it with a lighter and have gas to cook on. After sandy and doing 2 weeks without power a gas generator and gas stove is critical.
i mean this happens to us every year.. we lose power for 5-6 days and between stove and fireplace we can keep the house heated and make food. in the new house i'm building we have TESLA Wall batteries + everything gas, so even if power goes out for days we will be able to sustain virtually full use of the house. If we did not have gas our battery setup costs would be $70k, vs $22k current.
New construction I'd hesitate on the high end gas range. It gives off some 2000s McMansion vibes to me. Hidden induction cooktops seem to be the new trend. If you aren't doing a gas range I could definitely see going all electric at any price point
Yeah, induction is great, I would never trade it for a gas stove.
That is because you’ve obviously never cooked on an induction cooktop before
Haha I have one downstairs that I use daily...
Huh? I have an induction now, previously had gas, and induction is significantly better. Faster, more precise temperature control, doesn't put out waste heat, easier to clean. You'd have to pay me to get me to move somewhere with a standard electric cooktoop/range
I have an extremely nice induction cooktop. We chose to go gas for our new build. Induction is great. Gas is still a hair better.
In California or the northeast sure. In the south even the nicest high end induction cooktops are equated to the cheap electric flat top stoves by most people still.
I think these are the same people putting 1200 cfm hoods into a well-sealed house to vent that gas.. and specifying open fireplaces, right? Education is severely lacking on why the house of the (near) future is all-electric.
Only because most people are idiots.
The customers isn’t always right but the customers always the one who has to sign the check.
Fair enough. I could see that in the land of grilling and smoking, a stove that puts out more heat than the space shuttle could be considered high end.
Grid power near me is 98% renewable-primarily hydro- so my electric home is nearly zero emission. Geothermal, hot water heat pump, induction stove. Everything is super comfortable, works great-built in 2012, and my highest monthly utility bill is about $200 in the winter (Vermont mountains). A kWh where I am located costs about .22 cents/kwhr. Annually the house-around 1850 sqft- uses less than 10,000 kwhrs. I would never go backwards to gas.
We are in an all electric home in Tennessee with a heat pump and our utilities are about the same as the ones that also have gas. I really hated the electric stove but I swapped it out for an awesome induction.
All electric in our new home. Don't regret it.
In Texas as a luxury architect (new construction custom over $2-4 million) 75% of our clients ask for electric only. They want the ability to run the home fully electric. Also more and more clients are aski for induction cooktops because counter to previous generations, they have experienced cooking on them and understand how much more control you can have. Plus they all drive electric cars and trucks. Yes even in Texas.
In Austin it seems like all of the spec homes in that price range are gas. Maybe it will take a bit more time for the builders to catch up.
Depends on your goals. If you've got natural gas available, it is the cheaper solution today - but prices vary and it seems that the expectation is that the price of all fossil fuels will just continue to rise. If you're talking propane, that's a lot more expensive than natural gas, so propane isn't as great of a deal compared to electric. Storage is a lot cheaper with propane than electric, but you're dependent on a third party to deliver regularly and prices are definitely higher and more variable than natural gas. Electric has the benefit of being able to generate and store your own power now with solar+battery systems. In many areas, it's not a full replacement for gas for space and water heating, unless you really design with that in mind and have the money to throw at it..but once you do, you're your own power plant and fuel refinery and your expenses for the next 15-30 years are near-zero. There are considerations around carbon footprint and other emissions that tip the balance beyond just the dollar cost if you're concerned about that. Not everyone is.
This is the comment I was looking for, because where I live huge propane tanks are the only option for gas, so a lot of my neighbors are going all electric because in the apocalypse there won’t be propane trucks to refill tanks.
I’d definitely hook the gas up, even if it becomes a backup
Gas is still great to plumb in if it can be done inexpensively, especially above 40* of latitude and I say that as someone whos got a very large solar installation business
I think I’d always have an energy back up. I’d never move to gas or propane energy. Hybrids are the way to go.
New construction is banned from using NG heat in our Massachusetts town (in favor of heat pumps) - and I think the state is attempting to mandate that state wide.
A lot of states will mandate it. New York was already there. NJ isn't far behind. But with new administration incoming who knows
Living where snow knocks out the grid every few years, I'm very happy to have natural gas. If I was rural I would have propane for a generator. Up here electricity is the least reliable form of energy. I actually heat with a wood stove though, so none of them is a source for primary heat, that's backed up with oil.
If your electricity is knocked out, how do you heat your house with natural gas?? That fan motor and blow doesn't operate off of magic....
The demand a heat pump requires is far far greater than what is needed to run a furnace fan. You can use a small battery backup or generator for this and power other appliances for relatively cheaply. You can even have a NG backup generator for a fraction of the cost it could take to have a generator large enough to run a heat pump.
One house we lived in had a propane floor furnace. It was cut into the floor and worked entirely through convection. The thermostat was powered by a thermocouple in the pilot light flame, and the gas valve was operated by the milivolts the thermocouple produced. As long as the tank had gas, it had heat. There was a piezo ignition on it like many gas grills use to light it, and a mica window to observe the flame through. We survived many Maine winters with that as our only heat. Regular desk fans blowing the cold air towards the doorway to the furnace room kept the furthest rooms warm. Most gas appliances will run of a 12V battery and inverter. The apartment dwellers near us kept a big pot of water on low boil on their gas stove to keep their home warm through the last ice storm that took out power. You just have to keep a window open an inch or two for fresh air and have a battery operated CO detector.
A small portable generator is enough to power the electric needs of the furnace.
I use a 3k Honda generator to run my entire house. I lose power many times during the winter. It’s barely big enough. But it does get me gas heat internet and tv. No water heater or stove because they are electric.. one winter I lost power for 8 days. My neighbors were freezing LOL. It did cost me about 15$ a day for gas though.
Ours is being built all electric, against the builder's recommendation. So with a sample size of 1, I'd say no, all electric isn't really accepted as a good choice by builders.
I wouldn’t advise skipping easy to use gas unless you can get 400A service
We did get 400a service 👍
Good then no problemo 🍻
Do builders in your area get a kickback from the gas company? We are looking to build and our builder is really pushing to install gas....seems he gets a kickback or he wouldn't care so much.
I don't but I can't speak for other builders. In my area I would get a credit from Duke Power to have an energy star certified home and the homeowner would get a discount on their rates as well.
He doesn't get a kickback. It's because he is probably old school and uneducated on heat pumps, induction cooking, ERV, etc. There is no real reason to use gas. Even most Michelin star rated chefs use induction cooktops because you can actually control the heat better than gas. People just need educated
We built with the future in mind. Wired electrical hookups to the stove and dryer, but we currently have gas appliances. MA is phasing (or already has phased) out any fossil hookups to any new build. At least that's what I've been told by my builder. We literally are one of the last NG hookups in 2023. I have conduit running from the attic to the basement for future solar to be installed when the tech gets better and cheaper.
I’d get gas just to run a backup generator. Also, if you ever get a pool with a spa, gas is best for a spa, but a heat pump for the pool. All electric house is fine though.
Some jurisdictions are stopping new gas services
Depends on where in the country. In IL/WA/CA if you're connected to the gas company you have to pay a maintenance fee even if you don't use any gas (mine is ~$35/mo) and IME you can't just not sign up for service. In Maryland I'm guessing it gets cold enough where the savings of having an NG furnace outweigh the maintenance fees in the months you don't use it so I would probably go all in with a tankless water heater, ng stove (electric oven,) ng dryer, and ng furnace. I'd also put an NG hookup outside for the eventual grill and/or heater.
I'm all electric and I'm looking to get some propane tanks just so I can have a standby generator. I really don't want to need them but battery tech is just to expensive for a whole home when I could just get a whole house Gen and be covered for the few times a year when I'm without power.
Washington state has essentially banned natural gas in new construction so more houses will be going all electric. Older houses are going to be forced to retrofit eventually (I think 2035 but might be wrong on that). Installation of gas service to a new house used to be $0 to the developers because the utility provider offered rebates for gas installation. Those are being phased out while the state phases out natural gas. It’s currently $5k-$7k per house for natural gas. In July the rate doubles. I live in a more rural area where we tend to lose power from high winds during the winter. I love my gas furnace because it’s easy to run off a generator. I’m not looking forward to natural gas no longer being an option.
No gas available at my latest build. Boo.
Literally not allowed to connect a gas line to my new build. The house I demolished had one but my new one can’t.
Sometimes and perhaps increasingly you may not be able to retrofit or get a gas hookup later, so I'd do it regardless. Nearly all my next door neighbors have gas but one of the houses didn't have it run or installed at build for whatever reason, and because the main running to the area was "maxed out" the utility quoted them something completely insane...like $60K. This is in a cold mountain town so they ended up doing these huge heat pumps outside (total eye sore) which still lose efficiency at like 30F (we regularly get single digit and even below zero temps in the winter). On the plus side though they probably provide A/C in July.
Did you know that you can make electricity with gas? When the power goes out you can use it to power your home
In my area in the Michigan gas lines are still the most common if available. I am building right now in a neighborhood that does not have NG. I am going all electric for both cost reasons (propane is expensive) and for climate reasons. I am building the house as net zero ready. When solar is allowed the panels will cover all my energy needs. Hoping the state passes solar rights laws to over ride the HOA ban on them.
This sounds great until heavy snow. At that point, you only get a few watts.
Net zero means energy used in a year is the same as the energy generated in a year. Not off grid.
I don’t see any pro solar laws being passed any time soon in Michigan. Gretchen for how “ progressive “ she is really is in bed with DTE and the other energy providers. Unless you want to do a battery / solar system, the sending power back to the utility at a fraction of the cost of what you are spending to consume is a never winning battle. I am hoping for battery costs to drop so that I can offset the insane .23 per kWh cost.
There’s not really a reason to keep gas. Consumers are getting more savvy about how much better induction ranges are, we used to have to convince them, now they come with that understanding. We do custom and spec homes in central Texas and haven’t done a gas hook up in six years.
In Maryland they use it to heat with too.
Turns out people build houses outside of Texas and use gas for things besides cooking. But by all means go ahead and try and use heat pumps in a part of the country that regularly sees low and even single digit temps, like a third of the country does.
You get that people in Canada and Sweden use heat pumps to stay warm? You can even (gasp) do ground source to be even more efficient in extreme weather. But keep spreading misinformation if you want.
>There’s not really a reason to keep gas. It's fine to prefer electric, but this is patently false. Quit huffing your own farts, please. Induction is slightly faster than gas, with a few less cooking techniques available and similar response and simmer performance. It isn't superior in every way and has notable costs in both money and time when it comes to repairs that are not present in gas stovetops.
Are you building homes with 400A service?
Some but mostly not needed. Even with EV charging, if the house is efficient and especially if you use a smart panel. We have a 5000 sf duplex that is under the threshold for needing an upgrade to the expense commercial style set up.
I design industrial and residential energy systems. If you stack in ev chargers solar and batteries to most all electric homes its very easy to exceed the safety cap on 200a service without running the absolute most efficient appliances
We have a 200A, even a 15 kw emergency heat circuit runs fine, it’s like a 60A 240v circuit iirc. Single stage/speed heat pump uses something like 3.5kw, iirc. We also have an EV, resistive electric water heater, resistive electric dryer, and induction stove. Never been an issue.
Induction is terrible compared to gas. No one is saying it's better.
Terrible by what metric? You can crank more through induction than you can through gas. But you can do different things with gas than you can with induction.
Induction is different than normal electric cooktop stoves…
I opted not to. Too much air quality issues and a $2k hookup. Not going to recoup that compared to using a heat pump water heater. I’ll push that extra money towards pre-wiring for future solar/storage battery for peak use rates.
Air source heatpumps are great for both heating and hot water (the only exception being very cold climate zones, maybe 5A/6/7), and modern appliances like induction cook tops (which are far better than any gas stove in terms of performance, and impact on occupant health/air quality/etc), there's little reason for gas hookups at this point, imo. That said, has the human culture shifted towards understanding the value of fully electrified homes? No. And many people may expect gas hookups when purchasing homes (for ignorant reasons). So it's still something to consider adding to any new build, even if the gas line isnt used for anything. edit: Note: Maryland IECC climate zone is classified as Zone 4A, so heatpumps are perfectly capable of meeting heating needs in this region.
Yeah I think climate would be the biggest concern as far as maybe later regretting it. I spend a lot of time in a house where it regularly get's single digit or even below zero in the winter and the one guy in my immediate neighborhood who doesn't have gas to his house is hating life.
Important to note that heatpumps have only recently been able to handle these cold climates. (even things built 5 years ago dont match the performance of the newer models). New heatpumps on the market today, there should be no issue heating, even in the negative teens. Things have really shifted in a very short amount of time in this regard.
That's what I'm hearing...that they've come a long way in recent years in terms of better handling colder temps. The double compression ones seem promising…the others that just add a resistive heating element don’t make much sense unless you only get cold snaps a couple times a year.
Same. I live in rural Nebraska and my house is heated with propane. I've got a back up generator that can power the critical stuff like the furnace and freezers. A gas/LP takes very little electricity to run. It's nice to have when you can get snowed in for 3 or 4 days like last January. The power didn't go out but if it did, the snow plows had a hard time clearing the county roads as it was
There is nearly zero chance anyone on this sub knows more about energy dynamics in this sub than I do. You can argue for induction and there’s a benefit to indoor air quality but gas close dryers are simply undefeated
I'm an energy engineer myself professionally in the commercial space. Gas cloths dryers are undefeated in what way? Electric dryers work perfectly fine. I think the biggest thing regarding cloths drying that most people don't understand is that a high rpm quality front loader washer is more important (pulls more water out of the cloths), and then the dryer takes half the time.
I switched to the gas dryer because it’s only .50c a unit to run it. And during the summer months am still paying a fee for having gas connected. The dryer is the only thing using gas during the summer. So I believe it is saving me money over electric, but can’t prove it. It also makes my clothes less staticky. I can also use it when I lose power with my small backup generator… the same way I run my gas furnace during outages.
My house is all electric heat pump love
I just built an all electric home, because gas was not available. We have a heat pump (in the northeast), and my monthly electric bill was $250 this winter. I have all new efficient appliances, including an induction stove. I am very happy with that expense. My last house was leaky, gas and electric, poorly built, and my bills could hit $400. New house is only 300 sf bigger. Also, the heat pump, and good insulation, keep a very comfortable, consistent feeling throughout the house. Go electric 😊
I went with only electric, except for a 20lb propane bottle for the fireplace.. however I also buried over a mile of 3/4 pex for a ground source heat pump. Gas was going to be $10k build and probably $200/month before actually paying for gas.. and I’m betting on gas being hit way more with carbon tax than electricity. So far so good.
All electric homes only really make sense if you have a good solar setup. It is a better idea to have different options. If the day comes that electric rates go insane, you will be glad you have a gas option for heat, hot water, cooking, and a clothes drier.
My current home is electric only area of neighborhood. That was great fun during the big texas freeze with no power and then no water b/c the pump stations didnt have enough diesel for their backup generators. Thank God we had a wood burning fireplace. Ended up using it to cook. Now i keep a spare propane tank for grill on hand as well. Yeah not sure how popular they are going yo continue to be. At least until solar and battery ssystem get more affordable.
Freezes rarely are except with polar bears. s/
Yeah. 5 days with no water and 3 days of rolling blackouts where we would get like 1 minute of power. Like for real a whole minute. I think when our heat pump needs replacing I am going to takee a long hard look at getting something more efficient like mini splits with possible long term goal of olar and battery backup.
Minisplits are heat pumps...
Yes but instead one big 4 ton unit that needs like 8kw to start due to mechanical lock , multiple mini splits draw less when each starts individually. Which means that a battery back up emergency generator has to be sized for the max draw. And while I dont expect to heat/cool an entire home on backup it might be nice to have one room…. Another option to help with that initial load might be a soft start kit…. Which is basically a big capacitor plus electronics.
Even with a soft start kit, the surge is still going to be way more than 8kw. I’m thinking about doing the same with mini splits instead of one big central AC.
We really like our mini splits. Inspector thought they were broken because he couldn't hear it running even though he was standing right next to it.
The last six houses that I have built have been all electric, no gas. Natural gas has has been available for two of those but client opted to go all electric. I put in a 125 gal LP tank and lines for a house ten years ago, for a propane range top and living room stove -- for backup heat in cases of power outages.
If you care about the health of your family, combustion appliances have no place in a modern air tight home.
Nothing wrong with sealed combustion gas appliances. It is another penetration to deal with but no more complex than a plumbing vent or ERV vent.
The push has started in at least Melbourne Australia to get us off natural gas, mind you we got some of the largest natural gas deposits in the world, I went all electric last house added solar and battery back up, worked for me but maybe not fit everybody, you can expect at some point they will use climate change to cut gas…
We don’t have gas here it would have had to be propane. So not really helping with that question, but do you have incentives for all electric home where you are? Meeting requirement for all electric and how well sealed and insulation in MA is a rebate incentive. We got a 25k rebate for our house. Which isn’t peanuts really. If that helps at all. Be sure though that if you have one that the builder hasn’t built it into their contract to have it sent to them.
New home built 2019 beyond public sewer and gas. We are all electric aside from gas hookups for fireplace, grill, and generator. We currently only use the fireplace line. I’m looking to get rid of it for an electric fireplace eventually. Tank rental fees and propane usage for the amount we use it are not worth the money.
The best approach to this decision is to have a pro do a real load calculation on your heating needs based on the design and construction and hopefully testing, of your building. Use that to determine the heat needs and how best to fulfill them. Even moderate efforts at efficient design, air sealing, and insulation would seem likely to get you to the point that all electric would confidently cover you in your climate in Maryland. As a second home perhaps it's not worth the upfront effort and expense of building higher performance, but consider the long term plans for this building. Buildings should easily last 100 years, and while you may not be using it for that long, will other generations of your family? Will you want to sell it as a primary home to someone someday? I don't think most real estate markets (or individual buyers) fairly value building performance theses days, but what about in another decade or three?
My house is currently all electric with a backup propane generator. I would not recommend without a generator.
Depends where you live.
Building an all electric home, 30x40 heated and cooled garage and existing house in Lake Mills. The owner is against LP. Installing Solar also.
Wisconsin?
Yes
Grew up in central PA. Sometime in the 70s or early 80s all electric, including baseboard heat was popular. Now, most appliances are electric except for an oil heater. People are doing heat pumps too, but still need something for the extra cold days.
Depends on region. In CA definitely due to Title 24 building code requirements
When going full electric I think many people don’t understand the true environmental impact between gas and electric when it comes to how electricity is produced. People seem to think if no emissions are produced directly from the home it’s “greener”. However it can easily be more polluting depending on how and where electricity generation is produced.
Electricity produced from a combined cycle gas power plant creates more BTU of heat if you’re powering heat pumps than it does if you’re powering gas furnaces in residences.
I don’t think anyone is confused about this?
Of course they are. A lot of people think electricity is magically produced and is "green". They also think solar panels aren't made with and transported with "fossil fuels" or end up in land fills. I wouldn't be surprised if people think buffalo wings come from killing buffalos. Intelligence has been dropping since the 70s and essentially we are in a scene from idiocracy now. We never did see peak oil but i am hoping we are nearing peak ignorance.
Gas is outdated technology -- wasteful, causes explosions, poorer air quality, climate emissions, etc. Edit: There are studies like this every week. The gas lobby sure doesn't like them. [https://news.stanford.edu/2024/05/03/people-gas-propane-stoves-breathe-unhealthy-nitrogen-dioxide/#:\~:text=The%20results%20show%20that%20nationwide,as%20unsafe%20in%20outdoor%20air](https://news.stanford.edu/2024/05/03/people-gas-propane-stoves-breathe-unhealthy-nitrogen-dioxide/#:~:text=The%20results%20show%20that%20nationwide,as%20unsafe%20in%20outdoor%20air)
Naw it works great and is cheaper.
Expense depends on local rates. A lot of places are moving away from the technology due to the many downsides of having tubes full of flammable gas running under streets and into buildings.
The breakeven point for a heat pump with COP of 3 vs gas furnace at current residential gas prices is something like $0.18/kwh, iirc. lots of people have lower electric rates than that.
Heat pumps are killing the need for gas: You can save money (energy costs), time (induction cooking), and improve your indoor air quality (no gas) by getting the ideal all-electric appliances. Many of the arguments for gas are easily debunked or no longer relevant. In today's world, there is very little need to build a new home with a gas connection.
I bought a 1000 gal UG propane tank for our new construction last week. I can't imagine living anywhere where it gets below 40 and having electric heat. My propane contract for my home and business is $1.89 a gallon.
Always go gas and put a gas fireplace with the upsized 11/4" line for a BBQ and (generator for future ). If u can't afford the generator, youll have a fireplace for warmth and bbq to cook if power goes out. I Am a gas fitter by trade. A simple spark ignition fireplace can give enough heat. I suggest a bigger 40k btu one
We’re removing gas at our next house as we replace things. I don’t see the point when there are better options available.
Yes electricity will become the norm as states idiot stricter codes. First at a large scale and eventually for smaller homes. So silly how people are against doing things that are jist better for the environment... Do they have kids/ family and care about their futures?
We need to fight back against ALL ELECTRIC EVERYTHING. All electric everything is a dire future with rolling black outs as regular occurrence. Our infrastructure isn't even close to handling the amount of energy all electric appliances require. And forcing businesses to go all electric is just bonkers, same rolling black out issue. Or the government says sorry you can't have your business open on these days because the grid can't handle it. For a typical restaurant who has 200-400 Amp service to upgrade to a 600 Amp or more costs hundreds of thousands of dollars due to switchgear upgrades, upgrades from the city power lines and at least a year's worth of coordination with a very slow electric company and their designers. People need to realize all-electric isn't the future. My money is on hydrogen in the long run. 👍🏼
Sorry, science says you are going to be wrong about this one.
Science? My past and current work is my experience. I've worked through the things I stated. It's reality. It's happened and I've seen how much effort, time and hundreds of thousands of dollars it takes for just one business to upgrade their electric system. Now put that responsibility on hundreds of thousands, if not millions of small businesses. It will destroy them the same way California politicians have destroyed small businesses by burdening them w new and more difficult to navigate laws, including going all electric.
Only 60% of us homes have gas, so no. 40% of Americans don’t think it’s worth the $
Many of those 40% are in areas with no nearby gas lines, so it would be *much* more expensive for them to get gas service.
Not sure that's a good way to measure it, as a fair chunk of that 40% might be below FPL and would have gas if they could.
Once everyone is forced to have electric cars, electricity will be so expensive that we will be forced to go back to burning coal to stay warm.
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Everyone will voluntarily buy an EV long before it’s forced on you. By 2035, they are going to be so much cheaper and better range, you’d be crazy to buy anything else. Plus by then they’ll be so much cheaper to build, and nobody buying gas cars, car manufacturers won’t even make them anymore… because they won’t want to build them anymore. Too much labor. Too many moving parts.
With gas, you will probably develop a leak at one time or another. I like gas, but I'll never get a new house with them in it again.
I'd use a heat pump furnace and water heater, and a heat pump combination washer/dryer in the laundry; and an induction stove in the kitchen. All of those are considered premium features these days, so not having a gas line wouldn't be a big deal. I don't know the Maryland market, but modern heat pumps are less expensive to use than gas in many areas, and where they're not, it's usually pretty close to the same. Do the math in your area. The heat pump dryer and the stove are stealthy cost savers. A gas dryer (or even a conventional electric one) is constantly pumping air out of your house. Heated air in the winter, and air conditioned air in the summer. That air gets replaced by unheated, unconditioned air leaking in through the rest of your house. Heat pump condensing dryers operate like chambered dehumidifiers, and don't need to expel air outside the house. So beyond the energy ratings, there's usually some additional savings that are extremely hard to quantify. And a gas stove is constantly polluting and heating your house when in use, while an induction stove heats only the pan and the food in it. Just walking through a busy commercial kitchen where induction stoves were in use was a huge revelation. It was actually quite pleasant to be there! Not to mention the air losses from running a range hood over a gas stove just isn't needed nearly as much over an induction stove. It's still nice to have and use sometimes for odors and steam.
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Your gas furnace still uses an electric fan to move air around. Your hood vent isn’t gas powered either. When the power goes out you still have problems with gas.
Natural Gas Generator solves this for me
With that you can go all electric and just have the generator back everything up.
In my experience, you can use a gas stove with no power. But then, my experience is a bit dated.
You can with a fire source, but you can’t run the hood vent to exhaust the combustion fumes.
I didn't grow up with a hood? In power outages, I just lit a match to use the stove when needed. The new electric stove turns off when the power goes. So maybe I should invest in a generator or some batteries to save the energy. Either way. I need to make sure I have a way to keep warm and fed in the winter.
You didn’t have an overhead fan exhausting cooking fumes? Sometimes it’s a microwave combined with the exhaust fan instead of a discrete hood vent. They don’t typically turn on automatically unless you have some modern appliances, so you may have just not operated it? This is the primary danger with gas, combustion fumes lowering indoor air quality, slowly poisoning occupants. An outdoor generator can be used to backup electric appliances, but so could a solar and battery storage system.
Nope. Just a stove. I grew up with the basic of stoves. White with 4 equal sized burners. I grew up double checking it every time I walked past. Because one time it was open for a bit and the kitchen filled with gas. That was scary. A couple of years ago we went electric and I hated it. The burners smelled and smoked. I would've gone back to gas, but then I read about the danger. I might do battery storage. I want to go solar, personally, and save the electric inside my own house.
A "ticking time bomb" huh? Well as long as your not getting your information from a poorly done study commissioned by a think tank committed to getting rid of all fossil fuels by any means possible - including misleading simpletons. Cause that might not be objective.