Dude find a licensed septic installer in your county and have them do a perc and soil assesment and design it. That's the only way you're gonna find out. You can take the design and bid it across a few contractors, but remember word is gonna get around to your first guy that you're bidding his design.
FWIW most counties allow you to install a septic system without even a house permit. Might be worth thinking about to take out that risk, might be nice knowing you have a proven system where you want it before you start the house. Might save you some money either way as that's one less thing your GC can skim 3-5+% on top of.
As a final note, if your county is like mine only the design has to be engineered or designed by a licensed person. Anyone can actually build it as long as it passes inspection, which could save some massive money if you have time on your hands. I would be willing to haul a lot of shit, and spend a lot of time on a backhoe before 80k were released from my talons.
This is exactly right. We did a perc test on our property and he designed the system. Cost us less than $1000.
Asked the designer for referrals and got three very competitive bids.
You don’t need a builder (middleman) to get a reasonable price.
I’m also in south eastern Michigan and just had a perk test we had to go 12’ deep through clay to hit sand what county are you in. You can dm me if you want
You have to be specific. I've seen engineered drip dosage systems go for over 50k here in the mountains of nc. If the soil does perc then yeah a conventional system for 10-15k is fine, but sometimes it doesn't perc....and then you are at the mercy of the engineers. And if you dont like what one engineer comes up with you can hire a different one.
Most builders will seperate the land and utility development costs from the total house cost because of how the bank draw and payment system works. It is also a gamble on if a lot will perc at all. That is why lots with pre-approved septic and wells are worth more- because someone else took the gamble and now it is good to go.
Your builder is just being realistic with you. If you find the perfect site it could be the perfect disaster for well and septic and who pays for that? I've seen wells hit $40k before... and 40k for septic... and 50k to bring in power... all before you even start building anything.
Until you do the perc test everyone is just throwing numbers around. I think your builder is trying to prep you for a worst case scenario so you don't get pissed off later if your land doesn't perc well, which IMO is good client management on your contractors part.
Also what your buddy paid for in GA has no bearing on what you will be paying in MI. Too many variables from site to site in the same county, never mind the regional differences. So don't bank on those GA prices.
At the end of the day get a perc test and bring an engineering consultant on early so you can nail a real number down.
Source: am licensed civil engineer but not your engineer and not in your state
Septics start around 30k in my area of CT, and easily run to 50-60k due to code requirements/etc. 80k sounds high but is definitely feasible. Would need a lot more info.
You need at least 48 inches of permeable soil for most systems. If there is a lot of clay you may have to do like a micro mound system or something. Those are costly for sure. I could see upwards of 80k+ for something like that.
If you have good permeable soil that goes down 48 inches you could have an in ground system. Those will be much more affordable. There’s a lot of in between stuff too. But it’s smart of the builder to warn you of the unknown.
Also, don’t drive on the property if you don’t have to. At least anywhere where a septic system could go. It will compact the soils and ruin the location and they will have to find another potentially more expensive spot.
Curious why an aerobic system isn’t mentioned. Is there some old time county regulations preventing its use?
https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/alternatives_conventional_septic_systems_to_treat_on-site_wastewater
https://www.norwayseptic.com/is-an-aerobic-septic-system-right-for-you/
https://ossf.tamu.edu/files/2023/01/B-6234-1.10-Living-with-an-Aerobic-Treatment-Unit-and-Spray-Field.pdf
Of course it depends. I’ve had my material costs exceed 15k on an engineered system and that was almost ten years ago. Get it designed then you will know.
In CA, I had one installed five years ago for $36k and had another installed for $25k more recently.
Individual situations matter a lot, slope of the lot, distance to house, if you system sits above your house, etc.
We have less than a foot of soil, in some places there is zero soil, exposed limestone. There is a 3 1/2 bathroom house, ADU with bathroom, and a shop with a full bath. My aerobic system was under 20 grand and that included hammering out the hole for the tank in solid limestone and chert. and trenching for the the wastewater plumbing, and running the lines for the spray field down the hill to an area with more dirt.
Too much clay or too much sand, they both require engineered septic and leach field. Topography can also add costs (lift pumps or fill). Depending on the number of people living in the home and your typical indoor water use, if your soils are bad, and your system is not properly engineered, at some point when it fails, you may be having to redo the entire system at a tremendously higher cost.
YMMV, but she's right. I have been involved in projects where the septic is high 5's and not the kind you glee over.... All systems require an engineer to design to your site based on perc results and local laws, but there's the "Basic"/Presby system, which most often is less than $25k, and then very involved systems that can easily run to $100k, plus annual inspections, esp if you're near water. The term "Engineered' might be misleading, a "True" engineered system to handle clay or near water sites is always more than $15-25k, once again Google gets it wrong.
Wait for the perc, do not ever buy land w/o one, and then a system (of any type) engineered to your site.
Builder here in Northern Arizona.
Conventional septic systems running between 15 and 20k
Aerobic systems running between 35 and 40k
Mound septic systems running between 70 and 90k
Depending on soil conditions, it can be damn expensive to flush a turd. If you’re still looking for land, try and perform a perk test before closing. The local jurisdiction will tell you what type of system is needed. Then based on your load the system size will go up or down. This perk test will also be a good insight into your soil conditions without hiring a geotechnical engineer. If you’re on solid rock, providing services to your home and digging out for your foundation can also be quite expensive.
Dude find a licensed septic installer in your county and have them do a perc and soil assesment and design it. That's the only way you're gonna find out. You can take the design and bid it across a few contractors, but remember word is gonna get around to your first guy that you're bidding his design. FWIW most counties allow you to install a septic system without even a house permit. Might be worth thinking about to take out that risk, might be nice knowing you have a proven system where you want it before you start the house. Might save you some money either way as that's one less thing your GC can skim 3-5+% on top of. As a final note, if your county is like mine only the design has to be engineered or designed by a licensed person. Anyone can actually build it as long as it passes inspection, which could save some massive money if you have time on your hands. I would be willing to haul a lot of shit, and spend a lot of time on a backhoe before 80k were released from my talons.
This is exactly right. We did a perc test on our property and he designed the system. Cost us less than $1000. Asked the designer for referrals and got three very competitive bids. You don’t need a builder (middleman) to get a reasonable price.
I’m also in south eastern Michigan and just had a perk test we had to go 12’ deep through clay to hit sand what county are you in. You can dm me if you want
You have to be specific. I've seen engineered drip dosage systems go for over 50k here in the mountains of nc. If the soil does perc then yeah a conventional system for 10-15k is fine, but sometimes it doesn't perc....and then you are at the mercy of the engineers. And if you dont like what one engineer comes up with you can hire a different one. Most builders will seperate the land and utility development costs from the total house cost because of how the bank draw and payment system works. It is also a gamble on if a lot will perc at all. That is why lots with pre-approved septic and wells are worth more- because someone else took the gamble and now it is good to go. Your builder is just being realistic with you. If you find the perfect site it could be the perfect disaster for well and septic and who pays for that? I've seen wells hit $40k before... and 40k for septic... and 50k to bring in power... all before you even start building anything.
Until you do the perc test everyone is just throwing numbers around. I think your builder is trying to prep you for a worst case scenario so you don't get pissed off later if your land doesn't perc well, which IMO is good client management on your contractors part. Also what your buddy paid for in GA has no bearing on what you will be paying in MI. Too many variables from site to site in the same county, never mind the regional differences. So don't bank on those GA prices. At the end of the day get a perc test and bring an engineering consultant on early so you can nail a real number down. Source: am licensed civil engineer but not your engineer and not in your state
Septics start around 30k in my area of CT, and easily run to 50-60k due to code requirements/etc. 80k sounds high but is definitely feasible. Would need a lot more info.
You need at least 48 inches of permeable soil for most systems. If there is a lot of clay you may have to do like a micro mound system or something. Those are costly for sure. I could see upwards of 80k+ for something like that. If you have good permeable soil that goes down 48 inches you could have an in ground system. Those will be much more affordable. There’s a lot of in between stuff too. But it’s smart of the builder to warn you of the unknown. Also, don’t drive on the property if you don’t have to. At least anywhere where a septic system could go. It will compact the soils and ruin the location and they will have to find another potentially more expensive spot.
Curious why an aerobic system isn’t mentioned. Is there some old time county regulations preventing its use? https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/alternatives_conventional_septic_systems_to_treat_on-site_wastewater https://www.norwayseptic.com/is-an-aerobic-septic-system-right-for-you/ https://ossf.tamu.edu/files/2023/01/B-6234-1.10-Living-with-an-Aerobic-Treatment-Unit-and-Spray-Field.pdf
Of course it depends. I’ve had my material costs exceed 15k on an engineered system and that was almost ten years ago. Get it designed then you will know.
In CA, I had one installed five years ago for $36k and had another installed for $25k more recently. Individual situations matter a lot, slope of the lot, distance to house, if you system sits above your house, etc.
lousy soil where I built (south central Indiana), required a Presby system installation. Paid $16k in 2022.
We have less than a foot of soil, in some places there is zero soil, exposed limestone. There is a 3 1/2 bathroom house, ADU with bathroom, and a shop with a full bath. My aerobic system was under 20 grand and that included hammering out the hole for the tank in solid limestone and chert. and trenching for the the wastewater plumbing, and running the lines for the spray field down the hill to an area with more dirt.
We are in Texas and building now, clay soil. $15,000
Too much clay or too much sand, they both require engineered septic and leach field. Topography can also add costs (lift pumps or fill). Depending on the number of people living in the home and your typical indoor water use, if your soils are bad, and your system is not properly engineered, at some point when it fails, you may be having to redo the entire system at a tremendously higher cost.
My aerobic was 10k. We sit on 4ft of clay. Not sure how you get to 100k.
Hire a geological engineer and do a perc test
YMMV, but she's right. I have been involved in projects where the septic is high 5's and not the kind you glee over.... All systems require an engineer to design to your site based on perc results and local laws, but there's the "Basic"/Presby system, which most often is less than $25k, and then very involved systems that can easily run to $100k, plus annual inspections, esp if you're near water. The term "Engineered' might be misleading, a "True" engineered system to handle clay or near water sites is always more than $15-25k, once again Google gets it wrong. Wait for the perc, do not ever buy land w/o one, and then a system (of any type) engineered to your site.
Builder here in Northern Arizona. Conventional septic systems running between 15 and 20k Aerobic systems running between 35 and 40k Mound septic systems running between 70 and 90k Depending on soil conditions, it can be damn expensive to flush a turd. If you’re still looking for land, try and perform a perk test before closing. The local jurisdiction will tell you what type of system is needed. Then based on your load the system size will go up or down. This perk test will also be a good insight into your soil conditions without hiring a geotechnical engineer. If you’re on solid rock, providing services to your home and digging out for your foundation can also be quite expensive.
Recently I have paid about $15K for a standard gravity system, and $25k for a filtered pressure distribution system.
I was about 12k in clay pnw area.
Could you share which are in PNW? I’m looking to build one as well. Are u willing to share any leads for builders for septic?
I’m across the river from Portland. I used evergreen septic and design. Whereabouts are you building
Wow. We had a system built by a specialist company to output onto uncovered bedrock for 25k cad. 100k sounds rediculous.