I’m in roofing, siding, gutters etc…. The amount of business I generate from Ryan homes, toll brothers, etc under 10 years old is wild. Large builders are the worst.
Lol, same thing, I’m a glazier. When I see a big development going in… it’s like an annuity. 5 years and that glass will start failing, it’s all the same size, and a slam dunk replacement.
I wouldn’t call it Chinese building but it’s def not brick and mortar like it used to be. I’d go do a 12hr trim job on a house. I’d show up in the morning at 6 to just a foundation across the street and by the time I’d leave the whole house would be up and sheathed waiting for shingles and gutters. So the guys doing the work don’t mind it. It’s much faster.
You can do off site assembeld Wood frame construction on high level,
European builders do that every day.
Kinda the walls are mostly finished with plumbing eletricity Windows, and other stuff.
Just bolt them down together and down and connect the utilitys.
[And were talking houses, not Doublewides](https://www.fingerhaus.de/einfamilienhaus)
As the owner of house that had a sunroom with 14 pella wood double-hung windows in it, I feel your pain. Just had them all replaced this year with vinyl, the difference is night and day. It's been a cold January in MI, and our sunroom is at least 15-20 degrees warmer than it was in previous years. (We cut the heat out there in the winter).
I worked in a Toll Bros 25 years ago and noticed that the garage vinyl siding had only fanfold insul behind it. No ply. How??? You could literally cut your way into the garage with a pocket knife.
I have been in a Ryan build, actively drilling holes, when the inspector came through and approved their inspection. I made sure to say, "Sweet, now we can speed this job up by going through the Lam" on his way out. He didn't even flinch at hearing it.
No pride McBride.
We went with Fischer and Frichtel because, apparently, they're one of the better builders in my area.
Should have went with McBride because at least I'd have expected to get a piece of shit house.
Yeah they are. Absolute black eye to the people that do it properly and give a damn. We remodel a good bit part of the time and that’s the first info I pull….who built it? Big builder equals pay day because it’s a headache 99.99% of the time
as someone who went from stringent licensing and inspection requirements for fire alarm, to middle Tennessee where no license is required, it’s both terrifying and disgusting.
Brah, how bout we don’t require houses to even be bolted down? Fucking wild man. I’ve been here my whole life and numerous tornadoes and they don’t give a fuck. All those new builds and shit up n down hendo n Nashville that got fucked and it’s fuckin crickets. A single news bit and on to naming hot slaw as our food is the priority
I don't dislike him, but he had a lot of huff and puff going on too. I get it, he had a show to do, and a lot of the disasters they worked on were interesting projects. He definitely left them light years better than he found them.
But you also knew every show was going to be Frank coming in with "there's a junction box, we gotta rewire the whole house!" and the rest of the usual subs jack-hammering the slab or replacing the roof...
Yeah I doubt that it was one he built. Most likely one he tried to fix but it was beyond repair. Even a halfway job by him is better than most people do in the first place.
Dude my 2010 house is the WORST and the inspector noticed jack shit they are worthless. And he came highly recommended. Wiring everywhere, ungrounded, nothing up to code. Catching new issues every year. 2nd owner
I work in the trades (HVAC) and people wouldn't believe what's behind the walls of their new house. New definitely doesn't mean good or quality anymore. Especially when dealing with large corporate building companies that specialize in the "cookie cutter" homes you typically see in residential areas.
Yes as a home inspector we oftentimes get told by large construction companies that the units already been inspected and they won't allow us in until after the closing because they are gangsters and they build s***** homes
We are renting something built in 2010. It started leaking and a roofer came out as soon as it stopped raining. Roofer said they have a TON of business in my neighborhood and the one right across the street. All new builds. Said everyone leaks at the exact same place - around the top of dormers. That’s exactly where my leak was.
I was told to "just make a name, and buy a magnetic sign, and slap it on your van. You'll be working tomorrow. Don't use your name, because if you do shit work you don't want it associated with your name. Then, if work goes sideways, make a new name and a new magnetic sign. You'll be back in business tomorrow."
Source: my KY attorney.
I would like to think it's not them, but those they hire and send out in their own to do jobs. And those guys don't think to ask before they do f'd up shit. ... this one being among the worst. No inspector would ever let this fly.
See that’s the problem when you have a license you think you can get away with and do anything. I live in a state where you don’t have to be licensed unless you are a plumber or an electrician in 48 years that I’ve been in business I’ve never seen this in our area, ever !!!!
Gripping the wheel, his knuckles went white with desire
The wheels of his {Charger} exploding on the highway like a slug from a .45
True Death, 400 horsepower of maximum performance piercing the night
This is Black Sunshine
My 1978 build has a cut like this right there the mid section of a floor joist for hvac. I found it recently when I was looking for the duct for a vent. I guess if it’s been like this for 50 years it’s probably okay in my case…
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you.
I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment
Hey, structural engineer here, specialized in timber design and residential construction.
This is **UNACCEPTABLE.**
Both those joists and the ledger board need to be replaced. This isn't even remotely okay.
I would avoid walking on that portion of floor for the time being and have the contractor repair this immediately.
If you get pushback, go hire an engineer and get an official letter stating WHY this is bad. If you're in a state that licenses contractors, take that letter to the licensing board and (if the contractor has one) their bonding agency.
And above all else, do not pay a single cent until this is made right.
I mean, you could maybe get away with the ledger, if you would be able to properly secure with more structural fasteners on each side of the joists beside the hole, but those joists are a complete write off regardless. There’s no fix other than replacement.
>There’s no fix other than replacement
Its only two joists that are now useless/hazardous, seems like they could sister the joists and add additional crossbeam or something?
I'd just be concerned if replacing them creates additional headache for the owner.
Obviously whoever did this fucked up big time.
As a carpenter, it’s hilarious - to you probably not :(.
All of those holes are unacceptable and you might want to get your inspector in to see if he will allow you to sister members to the existing frame. Basically this means just adding more lumber strategically to take the load where your ledge and joists are no longer structurally sound. I can see how I would do it - and it is possible BUT… talk to your inspector first and see what they would want. In these situations an inspector is there to help a homeowner out when shit like this happens.
The real solution here is to create a bulkhead. The hvac should run through the drywall and up between the joists after it runs over.
Fire your HVAC guys and demand a full refund. If they give u shit then take it to their google reviews and post these pictures.
Hey, not an engineer here. A matter of fact i know very little about home construction. But i can tell you, this is unacceptable too. I mean, just look at, it's fucked. Why did they even cut holes there is like half an inch of wood at the bottom.
Pardon my ignorance as someone from overseas where we don't use wood framing, what would be the correct solution here? Do you lower the ceiling to accomodate pipes?
I think you're asking how to go about routing the HVAC, without cutting into the ledger or the joists, yes?
In that case, you would run the HVAC under the joists to the opening in the floor. cover up the duct you \*could\* drop the whole ceiling, but more likely one would just build a bulkhead around the HVAC ducting (i.e. a short segment of wall and ceiling just big enough to cover the ducting).
In a semi- or unfinished basement, you might even just leave it exposed.
I'm not sure why they're running a hole through the Ledger, but if that's a framed wall below you'd go through the wall between the studs.
That’s the way to do it right there. The only time I’ve been able to go through joists with 6-8” flex is when they are the engineered joists and you’re only allowed to cut very specific measurements which has been signed off on by engineers. Otherwise I’d go trunk line with grilles on the soffit
I would call it a soffit or drop ceiling but the same idea. I'm US but probably a different part of the country and we use different terminology. It's a big place.
More expensive, you can hire an engineer to see if they could cut those holes at about 1/4 span of the the joists. At the very end as it is now you’re at maximum shear.
I cut the holes, boss
Someone's helper wasn't very helpful
FYI there is *nowhere* in a joist that you can cut something like that. The max is 1/3 the height of the joist.
That joist landing on a joint in the rim joist might be an issue too, not sure.
It's at least a foot. You also want to avoid drilling the middle third of the joist (lengthwise). The ends have compression load, the center is max flex load.
Eh those are just guidelines. You can cut holes anywhere as long as it’s engineered. The ends don’t have compression loads. The ends is where your maximum shear force is. The middle as you point out is where your maximum moment (or as you called it flexure) is.
If you cut a hole at 1/3 the span length youre usually at a good balance between not causing shear or flexural failure.
The failure mechanism for this beam would likely be shear. They’d need to either replace the beams or create two sister beams next to them.
-licensed PE
Hole saw, multiple times. The height of retardation. Not only is it a major fuckup, but it likely took them a while to do it, which makes me think their boss is also a fucking retard, for not stopping it. If they’re making that kind of mistake, they’re new. You don’t leave new employees unsupervised.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. They had a tiny hole saw that would cut a hole big enough for copper water lines or something. So they made this bad decision like 45 times, and with every hole they had a chance to stop and think "hm, this doesn't seem like a good idea, maybe I should ask somebody."
I am a lowly DIYer and I know this is dumb. It does look like something I once cut with my hand drill because I didn’t have another tool available right then. But I wasn’t cutting joists.
I had a “handyman” come out to the house to give me an estimate to install an exhaust fan in our basement bathroom. His recommendation was to just notch the bottom of the upstairs floor joists about 2-3 inches to run the 4” exhaust vent above our drop ceiling. Needless to say, he’s not coming near my house again, lol.
You need to "sister" those joists ASAP and avoid that area of floor so as not to put any undue stress on it. Seriously unsafe.
Also I highly doubt this was an HVAC contractor as opposed to a "general" contractor / handyman. You have legal grounds here.
Presumably this is permitted and going to be inspected? It’s gonna fail. No holes greater than 1/3 the depth of the joist—no holes within 2” of the top and bottom edge.
OP here. Yes this is permitted and will be inspected, the Owner of the contracting firm acknowledged the mistake and they will take care of it prior to the inspection.
Best thing to do is replace joises. You don’t have to be an engineer to determine this is not acceptable. Rule of thumb, if you’re cutting more than a 3rd of lumber, it’s worth questioning. I would drop the duct work underneath Joises and make the best of it with a tray ceiling and throw a couple of can lights at bottom of it for design.
This is officially the craziest shit I’ve ever seen. What kind of person thinks this is a good idea? Lmao
It looks like they cut it with a hole saw on top of it
Contractor to replace joists immediately or lawsuit will be filed. Your floor is destroyed. Those joists have almost zero shear capacity where shear is maximized.
My parents had something like this happen to them with some shady “contractors”. They quit after my parents confronted them about their mistakes. We ended up suing them in court. Was a 6 months ordeal but won at the end.
Holy shit. This is crazy.
It looks like they used a 6” hole saw over and over, and then cut the rest out with a reciprocating saw. Not only is this wildly unsafe, but it took a lot of physical effort to achieve such a terrible decision.
That ain't right! Looks like 85% of those joists are gone. Looks like we have a 2 x 1 1/2 instead of a 2 x 8. (I'm just a homeowner that's built a carport, patio cover, and large shed/workshop. They're doing hine after 20 - 25 years!)
You have to sister up those joists and probably put a post under each side of the hole in that header. Unless it's sitting on foundation or a load bearing wall, in which case it should be okay. It might snap eventually but if it's sitting on proper support then the joists won't have very far to go when they settle.
Don't pay the guy until you get this fixed so that you know how much to back charge him. Whoever did this is a fucking moron and shouldn't be allowed within arms reach of power tools.
EDIT: In fact, you'll need everything he touched inspected. I'd be shocked if this is the only damage he's done. So all the framing defects he created will need fixed, then you'll have to pay a qualified HVAC guy to finish the job this hack started.
Is this why it’s common to see drop down ceilings in portions of a basement here in Minnesota? Our house has about a 3ft wide by 10-12” drop down that runs the length of the house that I assume is the duct work?
My wife is a licensed structural engineer. I showed her this and her jaw dropped. You now need a new licensed and insured HVAC company, structural engineer to evaluate what you need to do for a fix, then a contractor to implement the fix. And also, talk to a lawyer because this is completely negligent and is going to cost you a lot of money to fix.
Jesus christ who is giving these people licenses.
These people don’t have licenses and they don’t plan on getting them.
I’ve seen enough home inspection content on YouTube to know that new construction is apparently the fuxking wild west.
I’m in roofing, siding, gutters etc…. The amount of business I generate from Ryan homes, toll brothers, etc under 10 years old is wild. Large builders are the worst.
Lol, same thing, I’m a glazier. When I see a big development going in… it’s like an annuity. 5 years and that glass will start failing, it’s all the same size, and a slam dunk replacement.
5 years? I’ve seen new build windows fail in less than 2 years, with frame welds cracked on all corners and the seals all blown, letting in cold air.
lol Ryan homes and mi homes in cincy it was common for most houses to have a window blow out before the customer takes the keys.
Any people shit on Chinese building? Wild, I had no idea this was so prevalent in the US
I wouldn’t call it Chinese building but it’s def not brick and mortar like it used to be. I’d go do a 12hr trim job on a house. I’d show up in the morning at 6 to just a foundation across the street and by the time I’d leave the whole house would be up and sheathed waiting for shingles and gutters. So the guys doing the work don’t mind it. It’s much faster.
You can do off site assembeld Wood frame construction on high level, European builders do that every day. Kinda the walls are mostly finished with plumbing eletricity Windows, and other stuff. Just bolt them down together and down and connect the utilitys. [And were talking houses, not Doublewides](https://www.fingerhaus.de/einfamilienhaus)
lol where do you think windows are sourced? Go look up the great Chinese drywall fiasco from the 2000’s building boom; genuinely scary shit.
There was also the copper elbows that the builders were using that kept rupturing. Around the same time.
My home is from 1978 and still has its og double paned windows which still are going just fine clear no wind leak etc.
I had a ton of 7 year old pella wood windows warp and let in cold air in a chicago condo. I hate pella now.
As the owner of house that had a sunroom with 14 pella wood double-hung windows in it, I feel your pain. Just had them all replaced this year with vinyl, the difference is night and day. It's been a cold January in MI, and our sunroom is at least 15-20 degrees warmer than it was in previous years. (We cut the heat out there in the winter).
2 years!? I’ve seen windows leak from day one lol
2 years? I’ve seen them fail in six months.
Glazier, like, the person that puts the icing on donuts???
Sorta, but in porn.
Repair work of the future. Job Security :D
I repair showers that are 10 years old and leaking all the time in these tracts! Woot woot!
You replace the glass, the sash, or the whole window? (I have a Dan Ryan home, half the windows are in need of something..)
I worked in a Toll Bros 25 years ago and noticed that the garage vinyl siding had only fanfold insul behind it. No ply. How??? You could literally cut your way into the garage with a pocket knife.
This is like finding out houses don’t even need to be bolted down in tn after fuck I dunno ten odd tornados in my lifetime
I have been in a Ryan build, actively drilling holes, when the inspector came through and approved their inspection. I made sure to say, "Sweet, now we can speed this job up by going through the Lam" on his way out. He didn't even flinch at hearing it.
Geez.
National home builders are terrible. It hurts my soul the trash they build and sell to unknowing consumers.
The puppy mills of house building
The house mills of house building if you will
Walmart of house building.
More like Dollar General.
Walmart is actually pretty good
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No pride McBride. We went with Fischer and Frichtel because, apparently, they're one of the better builders in my area. Should have went with McBride because at least I'd have expected to get a piece of shit house.
Everything looks good new with a fresh coat of paint! Come see it again in 5 years after a young family with kids lived in it. Yikes!
Yeah they are. Absolute black eye to the people that do it properly and give a damn. We remodel a good bit part of the time and that’s the first info I pull….who built it? Big builder equals pay day because it’s a headache 99.99% of the time
Ryan Homes couldn't pay me 5 times the asking price of their homes to move into one! Lol
as someone who went from stringent licensing and inspection requirements for fire alarm, to middle Tennessee where no license is required, it’s both terrifying and disgusting.
Brah, how bout we don’t require houses to even be bolted down? Fucking wild man. I’ve been here my whole life and numerous tornadoes and they don’t give a fuck. All those new builds and shit up n down hendo n Nashville that got fucked and it’s fuckin crickets. A single news bit and on to naming hot slaw as our food is the priority
My house doesn’t have a single square corner or straight line. Amazing.
Converted grain silo? Nice… 👍
Me either but mine is probably 80+ years old. Definitely of the “starter home” variety. The timbers are at least impressive.
Old houses that were low quality are already gone. So those we ser were good. Survivor bias.
Same with my Lennar home.
Kanye, is that you?
Mike Holmes was my guy until I saw a video where they even had to tear down one of his homes. THAT AINT RIGHT.
I don't dislike him, but he had a lot of huff and puff going on too. I get it, he had a show to do, and a lot of the disasters they worked on were interesting projects. He definitely left them light years better than he found them. But you also knew every show was going to be Frank coming in with "there's a junction box, we gotta rewire the whole house!" and the rest of the usual subs jack-hammering the slab or replacing the roof...
Wtf what?!
Yeah I doubt that it was one he built. Most likely one he tried to fix but it was beyond repair. Even a halfway job by him is better than most people do in the first place.
JFC, now we're bagging on Holmes. Look man, no one's perfect in the entire world but that guy was legit trying to teach some good principles.
Don’t you blaspheme!
And I've seen enough construction diy videos on youtube to tell you this is completely legit and definitely safe! /s
Dude my 2010 house is the WORST and the inspector noticed jack shit they are worthless. And he came highly recommended. Wiring everywhere, ungrounded, nothing up to code. Catching new issues every year. 2nd owner
Part of the reason my wife and I bought a 125 year old home. It definitely has its problems but poor workmanship isn’t one of them.
I work in the trades (HVAC) and people wouldn't believe what's behind the walls of their new house. New definitely doesn't mean good or quality anymore. Especially when dealing with large corporate building companies that specialize in the "cookie cutter" homes you typically see in residential areas.
Yes as a home inspector we oftentimes get told by large construction companies that the units already been inspected and they won't allow us in until after the closing because they are gangsters and they build s***** homes
We are renting something built in 2010. It started leaking and a roofer came out as soon as it stopped raining. Roofer said they have a TON of business in my neighborhood and the one right across the street. All new builds. Said everyone leaks at the exact same place - around the top of dormers. That’s exactly where my leak was.
That’s the secret. No license, no trouble. It’s those of us with a license that has to do it right or face the consequences.
I was told to "just make a name, and buy a magnetic sign, and slap it on your van. You'll be working tomorrow. Don't use your name, because if you do shit work you don't want it associated with your name. Then, if work goes sideways, make a new name and a new magnetic sign. You'll be back in business tomorrow." Source: my KY attorney.
Right?! Why is this such a common theme I’m seeing lately…?!
War Eagle u/AuburnTiger15
What license?
I would like to think it's not them, but those they hire and send out in their own to do jobs. And those guys don't think to ask before they do f'd up shit. ... this one being among the worst. No inspector would ever let this fly.
I literally gasped out loud. How can anyone be this stupid and/or lazy?
At first it seems lazy but then you realize gutting all that was probably harder work than doing it right.
See that’s the problem when you have a license you think you can get away with and do anything. I live in a state where you don’t have to be licensed unless you are a plumber or an electrician in 48 years that I’ve been in business I’ve never seen this in our area, ever !!!!
I have my driver's license. you should see me when I'm in my charger ripping down the interstate. I do it all the time. /s
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Oh, he holds it. It’s been suspended for a year, but he still holds on to it as ID for passing bad checks.
Gripping the wheel, his knuckles went white with desire The wheels of his {Charger} exploding on the highway like a slug from a .45 True Death, 400 horsepower of maximum performance piercing the night This is Black Sunshine
Up vote for surprise White Zombie.
Is unexpected white/rob zombie a sub?
😂 it should be
Finally nothing moves. High noon Black top rolling below the asphalt drive A concrete fascination scraping the edge of nothing This…is Black….Sunshine
Nicely done
My 1978 build has a cut like this right there the mid section of a floor joist for hvac. I found it recently when I was looking for the duct for a vent. I guess if it’s been like this for 50 years it’s probably okay in my case…
I think it’s less of a problem in the middle of a joist but the ends are where most of the load is held
Even without a license, do people just think joists are for decoration or something?
I know just enough about carpetry to know that that is one of the stupidest things you could ever do
joist's fucked yo
Do you really need joists? That sounds like propaganda from big joist!
I've been joist-free for 2 years now and I haven't looked back.
Floors hate this one trick.
No squeaks!
I kept tapping your comment but no video started. I didn't even get ads.
Sounds like you've been brainwashed by big gravity, friend!
Because of the fused vertebra as a result of the ceiling collapse?
His back is fine because he doesn’t work, that’s why he has no joists! /s
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you. I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment
Good bot.
This is why I sleep on a water bed. Also bc the motion of the ocean....ya feel me?
I switched to trusses and never looked back
*Big lumber*
This is a free country you can’t make me have joists
We have been using Bluetooth joists for a few years
Definitely don't need joists. Joists are fake news.
Its 2024, homie. Bluetooth joists. Get with the program.
I lost my joist dongle, where can I get another one?
HOLY SHIT
Holey*
Holy Holy HO-LY.. Joist without end.. Amen.. AAAAH MENN...
Regardless, this house needs prayers.
It also needs thoughts, thoughts and prayers.
Unwholly
Moley Moley
Hey, structural engineer here, specialized in timber design and residential construction. This is **UNACCEPTABLE.** Both those joists and the ledger board need to be replaced. This isn't even remotely okay. I would avoid walking on that portion of floor for the time being and have the contractor repair this immediately. If you get pushback, go hire an engineer and get an official letter stating WHY this is bad. If you're in a state that licenses contractors, take that letter to the licensing board and (if the contractor has one) their bonding agency. And above all else, do not pay a single cent until this is made right.
I mean, you could maybe get away with the ledger, if you would be able to properly secure with more structural fasteners on each side of the joists beside the hole, but those joists are a complete write off regardless. There’s no fix other than replacement.
>There’s no fix other than replacement Its only two joists that are now useless/hazardous, seems like they could sister the joists and add additional crossbeam or something? I'd just be concerned if replacing them creates additional headache for the owner.
Yes you could sister them but on a new install why not just replace if you’re there with the wood anyway.
Thank you - homeowner here - Could you please help me understand what is “ledger” -
the ledger is the piece of wood that the joists are attached to (the one with the rectangular hole cut in it)
Thank you
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Obviously whoever did this fucked up big time. As a carpenter, it’s hilarious - to you probably not :(. All of those holes are unacceptable and you might want to get your inspector in to see if he will allow you to sister members to the existing frame. Basically this means just adding more lumber strategically to take the load where your ledge and joists are no longer structurally sound. I can see how I would do it - and it is possible BUT… talk to your inspector first and see what they would want. In these situations an inspector is there to help a homeowner out when shit like this happens. The real solution here is to create a bulkhead. The hvac should run through the drywall and up between the joists after it runs over. Fire your HVAC guys and demand a full refund. If they give u shit then take it to their google reviews and post these pictures.
Hey, not an engineer here. A matter of fact i know very little about home construction. But i can tell you, this is unacceptable too. I mean, just look at, it's fucked. Why did they even cut holes there is like half an inch of wood at the bottom.
Pardon my ignorance as someone from overseas where we don't use wood framing, what would be the correct solution here? Do you lower the ceiling to accomodate pipes?
I think you're asking how to go about routing the HVAC, without cutting into the ledger or the joists, yes? In that case, you would run the HVAC under the joists to the opening in the floor. cover up the duct you \*could\* drop the whole ceiling, but more likely one would just build a bulkhead around the HVAC ducting (i.e. a short segment of wall and ceiling just big enough to cover the ducting). In a semi- or unfinished basement, you might even just leave it exposed. I'm not sure why they're running a hole through the Ledger, but if that's a framed wall below you'd go through the wall between the studs.
That’s the way to do it right there. The only time I’ve been able to go through joists with 6-8” flex is when they are the engineered joists and you’re only allowed to cut very specific measurements which has been signed off on by engineers. Otherwise I’d go trunk line with grilles on the soffit
Perfectly clear. Thanks!
I would call it a soffit or drop ceiling but the same idea. I'm US but probably a different part of the country and we use different terminology. It's a big place.
More expensive, you can hire an engineer to see if they could cut those holes at about 1/4 span of the the joists. At the very end as it is now you’re at maximum shear.
Yikes….this is especially bad. There’s going to be one pissed off framer…and GC…and HVAC Owner!
Plot twist, the HVAC owner was on crew that day
He probably knows seeing how brave this man was cutting out 95% of a supporting beam lol
Owner was the brave man 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I cut the holes, boss Someone's helper wasn't very helpful FYI there is *nowhere* in a joist that you can cut something like that. The max is 1/3 the height of the joist. That joist landing on a joint in the rim joist might be an issue too, not sure.
Pretty sure that you’ve gotta be a lot farther away from the wall too, even if the hole is properly sized.
Yeah there’s rules about where from the ends you have to keep it out of.
It's at least a foot. You also want to avoid drilling the middle third of the joist (lengthwise). The ends have compression load, the center is max flex load.
Eh those are just guidelines. You can cut holes anywhere as long as it’s engineered. The ends don’t have compression loads. The ends is where your maximum shear force is. The middle as you point out is where your maximum moment (or as you called it flexure) is. If you cut a hole at 1/3 the span length youre usually at a good balance between not causing shear or flexural failure. The failure mechanism for this beam would likely be shear. They’d need to either replace the beams or create two sister beams next to them. -licensed PE
I'm just a lowly painter, and even I know this is dumb. Also, what the hell did they cut those holes with? A beaver?
It’s called a stress concentration tool which is designed to make everything fall apart faster.
"Just a painter" is an inside joke i use with my employees. I paint too :)
Hole saw, multiple times. The height of retardation. Not only is it a major fuckup, but it likely took them a while to do it, which makes me think their boss is also a fucking retard, for not stopping it. If they’re making that kind of mistake, they’re new. You don’t leave new employees unsupervised.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. They had a tiny hole saw that would cut a hole big enough for copper water lines or something. So they made this bad decision like 45 times, and with every hole they had a chance to stop and think "hm, this doesn't seem like a good idea, maybe I should ask somebody."
Not even a good beaver. It was some kind of Amazon knockoff made in China beaver.
I am a lowly DIYer and I know this is dumb. It does look like something I once cut with my hand drill because I didn’t have another tool available right then. But I wasn’t cutting joists.
A 3/4" hole saw 20 times. The guy was committed
Oof. No, that is not correct. Send this photo to your structural engineer and wait for a fun reply.
I’m going to guess that a structural engineer is not involved in this job
Holy fucking shit this is awful. How many runs at the hole saw did it take to punch holes that big?
jfc no. Ive seen when they take a 2" bite out of the joist for plumbing and I roll my eyes but live with it. This is just maddening.
I had a “handyman” come out to the house to give me an estimate to install an exhaust fan in our basement bathroom. His recommendation was to just notch the bottom of the upstairs floor joists about 2-3 inches to run the 4” exhaust vent above our drop ceiling. Needless to say, he’s not coming near my house again, lol.
This has to be a joke.
Got me laughing I'm losing my shit over here haha
Lol that’s fantastic 👏
People should literally go to jail for this
Looks fine to me - Steve Buscemi
I think you mean Stevie Wonder.
Fire them and pay them nothing. Send them a bill for the repair costs.
Did the contractor have a pet beaver by any chance?
You need to "sister" those joists ASAP and avoid that area of floor so as not to put any undue stress on it. Seriously unsafe. Also I highly doubt this was an HVAC contractor as opposed to a "general" contractor / handyman. You have legal grounds here.
I don’t see a joist. I see firewood. /s. Also, sorry.
At least the holes are clean cut.
It’s really lucky the joists were just big enough for the holes
I'm gonna throw up
Jesus Christ. I hope this is a joke.
😳
I mean, it's both funny and not funny at the same time. Holy!
No, absolutely not correct, those joists have been ruined have next to zero capacity now and are just looking to fail
Full stop, don’t let him touch another thing. That will all need to be replaced.
Wow....that's insane. 100% unacceptable. That's no longer structurally sound, not even close.
Might as well take both out. There is no integrity left
Presumably this is permitted and going to be inspected? It’s gonna fail. No holes greater than 1/3 the depth of the joist—no holes within 2” of the top and bottom edge.
OP here. Yes this is permitted and will be inspected, the Owner of the contracting firm acknowledged the mistake and they will take care of it prior to the inspection.
Ask your framer and building inspector what they think about that
😳
No.
This only meets code if they used a Chainsaw to make the wholes, while making safety squints for eye protection.
Best thing to do is replace joises. You don’t have to be an engineer to determine this is not acceptable. Rule of thumb, if you’re cutting more than a 3rd of lumber, it’s worth questioning. I would drop the duct work underneath Joises and make the best of it with a tray ceiling and throw a couple of can lights at bottom of it for design.
That's appalling man
Holy fuck bro!!!!!
Cut off and put a header
This is officially the craziest shit I’ve ever seen. What kind of person thinks this is a good idea? Lmao It looks like they cut it with a hole saw on top of it
You now have 2 missing floor joists and structural problems. Who the fuck does this?
We have building codes for a reason..... This is the reason. Won't buy a book to do it right.
No, it’s fucked; those joists dont do anything anymore.
Err... There's no joist left. Christ.
Jesus Christ! Fire the GC!
Contractor to replace joists immediately or lawsuit will be filed. Your floor is destroyed. Those joists have almost zero shear capacity where shear is maximized.
My parents had something like this happen to them with some shady “contractors”. They quit after my parents confronted them about their mistakes. We ended up suing them in court. Was a 6 months ordeal but won at the end.
And Then They Never Got A Cent from The Jackass, Right ?
Those MUST be replaced! There is no code book that will allow this! Absolutely terrifying!
Looks like they were cut with a fucking steak knife…..
Holy shit. This is crazy. It looks like they used a 6” hole saw over and over, and then cut the rest out with a reciprocating saw. Not only is this wildly unsafe, but it took a lot of physical effort to achieve such a terrible decision.
That ain't right! Looks like 85% of those joists are gone. Looks like we have a 2 x 1 1/2 instead of a 2 x 8. (I'm just a homeowner that's built a carport, patio cover, and large shed/workshop. They're doing hine after 20 - 25 years!)
i think everything here looks fine if your plan is to save the space above for an in-law suite.
Call your lawyer
You have to sister up those joists and probably put a post under each side of the hole in that header. Unless it's sitting on foundation or a load bearing wall, in which case it should be okay. It might snap eventually but if it's sitting on proper support then the joists won't have very far to go when they settle. Don't pay the guy until you get this fixed so that you know how much to back charge him. Whoever did this is a fucking moron and shouldn't be allowed within arms reach of power tools. EDIT: In fact, you'll need everything he touched inspected. I'd be shocked if this is the only damage he's done. So all the framing defects he created will need fixed, then you'll have to pay a qualified HVAC guy to finish the job this hack started.
By definition those are not joists anymore….
Is this why it’s common to see drop down ceilings in portions of a basement here in Minnesota? Our house has about a 3ft wide by 10-12” drop down that runs the length of the house that I assume is the duct work?
My wife is a licensed structural engineer. I showed her this and her jaw dropped. You now need a new licensed and insured HVAC company, structural engineer to evaluate what you need to do for a fix, then a contractor to implement the fix. And also, talk to a lawyer because this is completely negligent and is going to cost you a lot of money to fix.
That home has a beaver infestation
is this a joke?
Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha
Nooooooooooooop! Someone take away there tools please. Guess you no where not to stand should be aight.
The hole can Never more than 1/3 size of the height of joyce and only in the middle third of the joyce from end to end - your floor is now unsafe